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https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/c52c32e14f31285083f38ffb1c51c41f.mp3
696bef109dd4537de14e0d9c8dde7076
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/46981fdfa2994df0f4bc1a55ce807cd0.pdf
465a611e43b1c7556e21b7de1a5dfcb7
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1017
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2023-03-14
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Cáceres Rodríguez, Andrés Jésus.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Students
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
2003
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Chacao -- Caracas (Miranda) -- Venezuela
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Raleigh -- Wake County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-66.855787 10.4932844), 2003, 1;POINT(-80.7440174 34.9248125), 2014, 2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Montes, Gabriella.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
In this interview, interviewer Gabriella Montes learns about Venezuela’s recent history as experienced by her long-time friend, Andrés Cáceres. He describes the first ten years of his life in his city of origin, Caracas, Venezuela. He explains details about his family relationships, home life and school life as he grew up in the economic turmoil occurring in Venezuela since the 1940s. He shares his experience being a new student, his struggle in school in North Carolina, and how difficult this overall adjustment was. Andrés recounts that despite this struggle in the U.S., as well as Venezuela, he misses his home country, and mentions some of the happier moments he had back home and the friends and experiences he’s made here.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Andrés Jésus Cáceres Rodríguez by Gabriella Montes, 14 March 2023, R-1017, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29364
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Citizenship and immigration; K12 education; Migratory experience; Language and communication; Receiving communities
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Estudiantes
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
En esta entrevista, Andrés nos cuenta acerca de los primeros diez años de su vida en su país natal de Caracas, Venezuela. También nos habla sobre sus relaciones familiares, vida en casa y vida escolar mientras crecía en la crisis económica que ocurre en Venezuela desde la década de 1940. Nos lleva de regreso a su experiencia como nuevo estudiante, su lucha en las escuelas en Carolina del Norte y lo difícil que fue este ajuste general. Andrés relata que a pesar de esta lucha en los Estados Unidos, así como en Venezuela, extraña su país natal y nos habla de algunas de las memorias más felices que tuvo en Venezuela, y también de los amigos y experiencias que ha creído aquí.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Andrés Jésus Cáceres Rodríguez por Gabriella Montes, 14 March 2023, R-1017, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
ciudadanía e imigración; comunidades receptoras; educación básica y media; experiencia migratoria; lenguaje e comunicación
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Gabriella: Ok, My name is Gabriella Montes. I am here with…
Andrés: Andrés.
Gabriella: And we are at my house. The time is 8:57 p.m., and today is March 14th 2023, and today we will be discussing Andrés’ migration journey from Venezuela to North Carolina, and yeah, are you consenting to this interview, Andrés?
Andrés: Yes [pause] I consent.
G: All right, so, if you want to just like start off and just say like your name, age, occupations, school, and all that kind of stuff.
[00:00:55] A: So my name is Andrés Jésus Cáceres Rodriguéz, I’m twenty years old, I turned twenty not too long ago on March 5th, I'm currently going to school at NC State, trying to get my degree in chemical engineering, my bachelor's degree in chemical engineering, and I've previously worked at a cabinet manufacturing company as a cabinet painter, so that was really good. That was my first real job, and right now I'm looking into getting an internship at Sherwin-Williams, engineering internship, so that's cool.
G: Awesome, okay, and can you tell just like a little bit more about yourself, and just like, briefly describe your connection to like, your migration journey and your heritage?
[00:02:30] A: so, I was born in a smaller subdivision in Caracas, so I was born in Chacao, which is – a lot of people say its Caracas, but it's like, technically not – it’s like two minutes away from the main city, so it's technically not Caracas, but it's so close that people still call it that. I was born in a small clinic, and I lived in my grandparents’ house for 9 years until I moved to – we moved to our own apartment, but, I was basically raised mainly by my grandparents ‘cause, my parents were always working. They were always out and doing their own thing, and my grandparents were always at home.
G: And, like, do you want to talk a little more about your relationship with your grandparents, was it like your mom's parents or your dad's parents?
A: It was my mom’s parents, so my dad's parents – they lived a little bit farther away and we got to see them like for family reunions and stuff like that but – it was mainly, I mainly lived around my mom's parents, and they're always very, very nice and very patient, because they certainly didn't have to do that for my parents, but the fact that they were still able to be there with us, and take care of us and take us to school it was, it was something that I'm sure my parents are very thankful for and I'm very thankful for it, ‘cause I got to spend more time with them, so yeah.
G: They were like a second set of parents for you, for like, the first, almost, ten years of your life?
A: Yea basically, they were always there for me, my grandpa was actually the one who… I was into sports when I was younger. I did baseball for five years, and I swam for 3 years, and he was always the one to take me to practice, he was always the one to, basically drive me around and I would always do stuff with him. Yeah, he was my main guy for like a really long time, so…
G: That's so sweet – and are those the grandparents – do they still like, visit you guys or do you still visit them?
A: Yea, so they actually still live here. They live in Miami right now, but they rotate six months in Miami, and six months here.
G: Ok, and they live with you guys, like, when they come here. Do they live with you guys for like a few months in the summer?
A: Yea, so, this past year they actually lived the whole six months, because my aunt, she wasn't really in a situation where she could have them. We welcomed them to our house because she couldn't, but it's usually… they usually live 3 months with my aunt, and 3 months with us.
G: Thats nice.
A: Yeah they… it's not really, Venezuela is not really in a suitable situation for them to go back.
G: Yeah, so, when was the last time they were there?
A: I wanna say 2020… definitely before the pandemic, that's for sure… tempted to say 2018, was the last time they were back there.
G: And then, those are your mom’s parents?
A: My mom’s parents, yeah.
G: And so, just for the recording, Andrés and I have been friends for like, I don't know, seven years, I think, and you’ve talked to me about your grandpa before, and is this the same grandpa that lived in Puerto Rico?
A: He is Puerto Rican.
G: Ok.
A: He is Puerto Rican.
G: Ok, and do you wanna expand on that a little more on that?
A: Sure, yea, so my grandpa, his mother was German and his father was Dominican, but they – during the second World War – my grandma, well my great grandma, my grandpa’s mom, she had to leave. She had to leave Germany, so she did, and she went to, Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic, and then she met my grandpa’s dad there, and then they settled down in Puerto Rico, not long after, and that's where they had him. And then he lived there for, I’d say like, 2 years of his life, and then they moved to Puerto Rico – or sorry – they moved back to Santo Domingo, so he ended up living in Dominican Republic for, for a while and then, I can't remember exactly when he left to go to Venezuela, but it was – he was still young, he was still young.
G: And then, that's where he met your grandma?
A: My grandma, mhm, so he met my grandma… it's a funny story, he would go – he was really in love – he would go 12 hours to see her every weekend, like, ‘cause he was working at a research lab – I think it was a research lab – because he was a agriculture engineer, he did a lot of work with meat production and dairy production, and when he was off, he would drive 12 hours to go see her in Merida, ‘cause he was working – I can't remember where he was working – but I just know it was 12 hours away from where my grandma lived.
G: Yea.
A: Which was in a very small town close to the Andes, it was very small.
G: Oh wow, wow, ‘cause Merida is like in the northern part of-
A: Very close to Colombia, yea.
G: Wow, that's so cute, aw.
A: Yea, twelve hours…
G: Wow, so he’s dedicated!
A: He was dedicated!
G: Ok, so what was, to get back into like more about you, what was school like while you were in Venezuela?
[00:08:15] A: So I went to a private Catholic school, it’s called Santo Tomas de Villanueva, and I went there, from, I want to say right before first grade, – so what we call it over there is preparatorio – and I went there all the way up to 5th grade, which was right when I left, and that school, it really shaped me, like, I'm not necessarily the most religious person today, but the values it instilled in me, I think school had a lot to do with that. They had a lot of core values, that we were exposed to everyday, basically, because we had a lot of classes that dealt with values and family and stuff like that.
G: And is that like, common for kids in Venezuela to go to private Catholic schools or?
A: It is more common for kids to go to private schools, because public schools over there don't really function that well, and they’re no longer – it's not like here where you have a public school system, its kinda like, you have several schools scattered around. It's mainly more common for people to go to private schools, and private schools over there – back when I was still there – they were not that expensive, so people with middle to lower income could still afford putting their kids in private school.
G: So like families who had kids, it was typically like they were either going to private Catholic schools or just private schools?
A: Yea, pretty much.
G: I guess like, do you want to talk a little more about like, the friends you met, ‘cause you said it was like very formative for you, so do you want to talk more about any teachers that were memorable to you?
A: Oh yea, oh yea, so I still regularly communicate with a lot of the friends I made over there, yea we – I like to play videogames, and they play a lot of the same video games that I do, and so that's one of the main ways I keep in contact, you know, just playing video games when I have time, whenever I’m not doing schoolwork, I’m probably just talking or playing with them. As for teacher, my mom actually still keeps in contact with one of the professors over there, who still – she kind of asks about me from time to time and I talked to her through – I still don't know why I don't have her number – but whenever my mom, whenever she gets a message from her, she'll show me, and I'll respond but –
G: It's always through your mom?
A: It's always through my mom.
G: Yea.
A: Just haven't gotten around to – there's really no reason as to why, I just haven't gotten her, in contact with her, personally – but yeah I’ve gotten into contact with her from time to time. Whenever she reaches out – she was my fifth grade, third and fifth grade math teacher – and she always said I was good with numbers and she thought I would go into like something related to numbers and I did, so.
G: Does she know that you're currently studying chemical engineering?
A: Yea she knows, yea I talked – we had a conversation about it four months ago,
G: Really?
A: Yeah, that I was in a chemical engineering program here.
G: And like, what was like, her reaction?
A: She was – she told my mom, ‘cause I had to I had to go back to what I was doing, but she was telling my mom like how proud she was of the achievements, and the fact that I've been able to find a program and be successful here after after moving. She was very proud that she met me and had such a good time with me as her student, and to see me like be successful somewhere else was really cool for her to see. She was proud, she was proud.
[00:13:17] G: That's awesome, awe, ok, so I guess to kinda like, take a bit of a sharp left turn, were you ever aware of the instability in Venezuela, and with the riots that were going on, ‘cause, when exactly did you leave Venezuela?
A: I left in October of 2014, and the riots had been going on for about two years, or maybe even more actually, but I remember my family constantly like, talking about the fact there's a riot close to where I went to school, semi-often, you know, you could see a little bit of smoke in the distance, you could see it above the treeline, you could see smoke, you couldn't hear anything, but you could see the smoke, and my parents usually knew that, “oh, there's something going on over there like,” ‘cause it's not usually normal just seeing smoke over the tree line.
G: Yeah.
A: So, yeah, so, those have been going on for a while.
G: Did it ever, like, interfere with your school week, like did you ever have school canceled because of those riots?
A: I don't, I don't actually think school was ever canceled because of the riots, I think maybe once, but, you know, they were mainly in the city. I was a little bit farther away from the capital city, I was like 5 minutes away, so they were mainly over there in the very-
G: Ohhh
A: -populated, like super dense areas, ‘cause where I went to school, it was still a really dense area, but it was more-
G: Definitely away from the center of it all,
A: And it was a little bit of a, there was more money in the area, so people didn't really go there to riot.
G: And did you like, so with the riots basically just being like so close to your school, did you ever have any kind of like, first-hand experience or exposure to them, besides seeing the smoke from the tree line?
A: No but I did have other experiences, not in school. I had seen them before, I saw them when I was going to my other grandparents house, my dad’s parents. They live in a little bit of a more unsafe area, where a lot of those things would tend to happen.
G: What area is that?
A: It's El Valle. It's a little bit of more, I guess, poor area, where they lived, and that's where a lot of those things would happen, a lot of the riots would happen there. I remember one time we were going over there just for a family reunion to see my grandparents, and it was going down, it was really going down, yea I was… the police were posted up in a line formation with their shields,
G: Oh my gosh.
A: And the people were in the – what are they called?
G: Goggles?
A: No not goggles, they were like, balaclavas or something?
G: Ohh yea yea.
A: Yea, everyone was wearing those, to protect themselves from the smoke bombs, cause they would use tear gas on them, the military or the police would use tear gas on them, and it was only that one time that I really gotta see it, that was close.
G: How did you feel, how old were you?
A: So, it was in 2012, or 2013, the year before I left, so I was 10, I was almost 11.
G: And how did you like feel in that moment, that must’ve been scary, was it right outside?
A: It was not outside my grandparent’s place, it was a little bit off to the side, closer to a mall that they had close. So there was a lot of traffic, so we kind of were forced to look at it for a while and see everyone like, see the chaos pretty much, it was pretty chaotic.
G: Wow.
A: But I was never physically in one of those. I do remember my grandparents, they felt compelled to go to the protests, they weren’t riots, they were more like protests where people, you know, masses of people would gather and basically gather from one end of a really long avenue to another, and they did that to like raise awareness, and retaliate against the government. But it was never violent, it was more like a, you know just, a peaceful protest.
[00:18:40] G: Yeah. So in mentioning the protest, you said like, “raising awareness about what was going on in the government,” can you like describe more of what exactly was going on with the government?
A: So the government… Venezuela is incredibly corrupt. They steal, and they launder money, and they traffic a lot of drugs – they traffic drugs to the United States – they steal from the people, and they've cheated their way through every single election since they've been elected, since Chavez was elected in ‘99. I remember my parents, when Maduro got elected, it was like, they voted for the other candidate, I don't remember the other candidate, but whenever we got the news that Maduro had been elected, they weren't really surprised, they were kind of just like, “we really didn't want it to happen, but we're not surprised that it did.”
G: Yea.
A: Because it's just how the government operates, it's corrupt, and it's… it's just full of liars, so yeah in that regard, I've always been aware of the people in charge and how they are, and I've always been around it.
G: And how long, cause, it was Chavez, but now it's Maduro, right? So how long has he been in power?
A: He got elected, well he didn't get elected, presidency was passed down to him, because he was the vice president, and then-
G: From Chavez?
A: Yea, and then they had their elections, but they weren't really elections ‘cause he was gonna win anyways,
G: Yea.
A: So, they had their democratic elections after Chavez died from cancer back in 2013, he died, and then Maduro got elected, or he stepped into the presidency, that's when he became president.
G: So, he's been in power for almost 10 years now?
A: Yea, almost, I think yea.
G: Under the guise of, quote unquote, democracy.
A: Yea, under the guise of “democracy.”
[00:21:20] G: Wow, so that was around the same time you guys basically like, moved to the U.S. and, do you want to explain more on like, I know you already said when, it was like October 2014, so, why did you guys come to the specifically North Carolina, you could’ve gone anywhere else, why North Carolina?
A: Yeah, so, my parents had been talking to my aunt, who also lives in North Carolina, and she basically said that, you know, if we kind of wanted to break from the city, and the busy life, that Waxhaw – which is where she lived – would be a pretty drastic, but good change for us, and also the fact that, you know, she could give us a place to live at least until we got our bearings.
G: Yeah.
A: Yeah so we moved with her for about six months, she was always great to us, I'm really thankful for her and the time that she was able to give us, to get our bearings. And then we we moved to Indian Trail, but I think my parents decided to move here – they've been in the process of getting our documentation since 1999, which is when Chavez got elected, because my mom was like, “all right…” she really did not like him as a presidential candidate or as a president, so she kind of kick-started the process of getting all our papers and getting — well, getting their papers first, ‘cause I wasn't even in the picture in 1999, but the turning point, I think, for actually finishing out the process was 2012, which is when my mom really was like, cause it was kinda in the back of their minds in 1999 all the way through like 2010, they were kind of like, “stuff is good,” you know, my dad had a very stable job, my mom also had a stable job, so they kind of put it off, and they didn't really think about it, ‘cause they didn't think we were going to have to move. My mom still wanted to have that, just as a safeguard, and it wasn't until 2012, where she was like, “all right, we, we need to, we need to finish this.”
G: So when did, like, I'm not very well versed with the whole like, papers and documentation things, so when did like, your mom, get papers? So was it like the green card first or like?
A: So we had to, I actually don't don't know the order of things, but I do remember the day that they were finalized.
G: Yeah.
[00:23:45] A: I do remember going to the Embassy, US Embassy, we were there for
roughly 8 hours.
G: Yeah.
A: We were there maybe, maybe a little bit more, and we were waiting for our turn to, basically, ‘cause my parents had to talk to one of the Embassy agents, I don't really know what they're called, but, they had to sign documents and go through, like, the small interview process, and then they would be sworn in. They would have to take an oath to the United States, that's when I remember seeing like, our actual documents in their hand.
G: So it was all four of you guys at the same time?
A: Yea, it was all four of us.
G: And how old were…
A: I was ten.
G: So, like 2013?
A: Yep, it was, I think it might have been right before, a little bit before my birthday… that time is kind of, I don't really remember dates that well from that time, but, it was definitely between the end of 2013 and October 2014. It was really close actually I think, it was really close to October 2014.
G: It was like, just in time.
A: Yea, it was just in time.
G: Ok, yea those Embassy and like, naturalization process takes..
A: They take a while, yeah.
[00:25:40] G: Can you talk a little more about your adjustment to your new life in North Carolina, so like, in terms of like, making new friends, going to school, all that kind of stuff.
A: So I went to, when I moved to Waxhaw, I went to Cuthbertson, which is a predominantly white middle school, so I didnt, I’d say I kinda struggled to make friends there, ‘cause I didn't know the language yet, but I did meet this one Colombian kid who was really, we were good friends until I moved away. His name is Federico and he was cool, but making friends was hard at Cuthbertson, and I'd say I really only had him as my friend, and it was, it was I think, the most difficult part of it for me was the fact that I was always kind of high achieving… I was always like, I was kind of like, a little bit rough on myself if I didn't excel in academics, which I did not at Cuthbertson, because of the language barrier.
G: Yea.
A: Yea like I, it was like-
G: They just kinda threw you in there.
A: Yea, they kinda just threw me in there, which I really had no other choice, ‘cause I had to go to school, but I didn't know the language and that was kinda, that I was just really hard on myself for, for a time because, I wasn't used to… I just have really high standards for myself and underperformance is something I couldn't really handle very well back then, and I wasn't really aware of how to handle, so I'd say that was one of the harder things, making friends was also really hard, and then just communication, was just, I just really wanted to talk to my professor, and my teacher and classmates, but it was just wasn't possible for like a few months, and there was also the, like, there's also a little bit of bullying, from like, like two kids. I didn't really know what they were saying, at the time, but I could tell they were like talking about me, but, overall I think I got pretty lucky, actually, going to Cuthbertson, ‘cause it was a really nice school, I liked it, it was just hard at the beginning, it was just something really huge, it was just a really huge change, going from-
G: It's a hard change.
A: A large Catholic school to a school in a completely different language and completely different country. I was with my friends, I've been with my friends from the school in Venezuela, from before first grade all the way up to 5th grade.
G: Yeah.
A: So, I didn't really have that support system anymore, I didn't have those friends that have been with me for 6 years.
G: Yeah.
A: You know, I was with a completely new group of people and new teachers and new faces and completely new language, so, that was… that was hard to adjust to but, yea.
G: And then, so, you went to Cuthbertson for your first year of middle school right?
A: Mhm, well I left Cuthbertson halfway through the year, and I went to Sun Valley, which is where I met you, about… I wanna say like, a month after I moved to Sun Valley is when I met you.
G: I remember it was the summer before seventh grade.
A: Summer before seventh grade?
G: Yea.
A: Well I remember seeing you in the hallways, and… but maybe we didn't have a real conversation until the summer.
G: Yea, yea, and then, so like, and that was like finally some stability for you, and like, you graduated from Sun Valley middle, so, talk more about… if it was nice to have that stability.
A: So yeah we were finally done moving. My parents had like, “I think we can settle down here for a while,” and we ended up settling down, and I stayed in Sun Valley until 8th grade, which was when I graduated middle school, so that was nice. It was nice to finally have some sense of belonging and in a new place, ‘cause at Cuthbertson, I barely got to adjust, and even when I left I still didn't feel like, fully adjusted, but then I got to Sun Valley and it was that same process all over again. At least at that point I kind of had the language to kind of-
G: Yeah.
A: – Kinda had it, but not fully, but I could at least make friends and communicate with people and communicate any concerns to my, my teachers and stuff like that, but it was the point where I was like, okay we’re just gonna settle down and be fine, yeah.
G: Do you have any like, moments in middle school after Cuthbertson, where, like… did you have any friends in Sun Valley where it was like, “okay they're like, a bit of a godsend, thank God, I have a friend who's gonna look out for me,” or even like teachers too?
A: Yea, I would say you were definitely one of those people for me, in seventh grade, I definitely saw you as a, as a person I could rely on, in terms of other people, I'd say, I had really good science eighth grade Professor – I don't know if you remember him – Mr. Barron, he was great.
G: Mr. Barron…
A: Mr. Barron.
G: I remember the name, was it for the AIG team?
A: No I was only in the AIG for English.
G: Ok.
A: Yea I only had AIG for English, but he was great, he was always like, super friendly and nice and understanding, and yea I think that's it.
[00:33:10] G: Yeah ok, well I kind of wanted like, to backtrack ‘cause, I don't know if you mentioned it in the recording, or during the recording, but it was before the recording. Do you think you can talk a little bit more about the CLAP program, and what you know about it and what your friends have told you about it?
A: Yeah, so, this program, the one that Gaby's mentioning right now, is a mitigation program for the people of Venezuela, so it's trying to deal with the fact that food items are very scarce, your basic necessity items are really scarce, so back in 2016, Maduro established a program to try to mitigate, quote unquote, mitigate the humanitarian issue, which is the food problem in Venezuela. And it's basically a little box of a protein, but most of the time it's going to be rice, pasta, any sort of bean, usually it's black beans, but it's usually for lower income families. They get them once every 2 months. So, it's definitely not something that is sustainable, that program isn't sustainable for people getting a box of that size every 2 months is not the solution to the problem, and this problem has been going on for, ever since I left. The problem’s been getting worse, but it was always present, ever since 2010 is when it really started. But, in 2014 is when it started getting really bad, where you couldn't find your, you know, basic need items like, toilet paper or chicken or rice – rice was especially hard to find – and yeah, you, I remember, I just remember seeing really, really long lines at the supermarket like, huge like probably 50 meter, maybe 100 meters lines.
G: Yeah.
A: Just of people just waiting to get food.
G: Yeah, and like basic necessities.
A: Yeah, I don't know if you've seen videos like that, of people, in Colombia, like, people line up for food.
G: Yeah, it's ridiculous and sometimes like, stores will close while people are in line and they won't get their stuff.
A: They won't get their food, no.
G: That is, yeah, that is not very sustainable for a country.
A: No it’s not.
[00:36:05] G: Before I forget, do you have any family left in Venezuela?
A: I do, so, I have some of my cousins, It's mainly my, my dad's side still over there in Venezuela, I have some aunts, great aunts, cousins… they're still all, they're scattered around the country, some of them are in Maracaibo, some of them are in Caracas, and some of them are closer to the coast, but I still have a lot of people over there.
G: And do you know, like, do you like communicate with them often to know, like, how they're doing?
A: I communicate mainly with my cousins, because a lot of my family members over there don't really have phones, or they don't really have social media like that so, I mainly communicate with my cousins. My closer cousins. And they, I always saw them during our family reunions, so I've been, kept in contact with them because of, mainly because they have social media and they have a cell phone and they're just closer.
G: Ok, and the same thing with like, your friends, you just keep in contact with them through like, social media and video games?
A: Yes I do, a lot of like, a lot of them, it's been real easy to keep in contact with a lot of them, because they're, they're a lot younger than the, most of my family is, over there, there's a lot of the family that I have left over there is a little bit older, they're probably in like their 50s or 60s.
G: Even your cousins?
A: No my, everyone except for my cousins, is more like in their 50s and 60s, because the people that are a lot younger have left.
G: And where, like, are they in North Carolina?
A: No, there's some in Germany, there's some in Spain, there's one in Italy, and I think that's it.
G: And did they leave for the same reason?
A: Yeah, they left for the same stability/instability reasons as I did, it's just a really unsustainable place to live in right now, it's just, there's no way with the food, the food issue and the income issue, it's just not sustainable.
G: I remember like, in middle school, learning about all the instability and, like, learning about the inflation there, and how like the inflation was ridiculous, like.
A: Yeah, it is, I think the rate of inflation there is the highest in the world.
G: Alright, well I think this is a good place to end it, did you want to share anything else that may have come up that I didn't ask you about?
[00:39:40] A: I didn't talk, I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about the election process over there, and how it was, it was just, the election process over there, my parents would always, I remember getting up really early to go with my parents to vote, and they were always really excited to go do it because, you know, they wanted to do their, their job as citizens, which was to vote, but I remember one time we were going, it was, I don't remember the year of this election, but we were going down there, and there was a protest nearby, and that was one of the times where I've actually seen it, like, seen a protest, not, not a riot, but a protest that was like, really the only time where I've been close to what it, what it was like for people to go and protest, yeah.
G: How did you feel and like, how old were you?
A: It was scary, it was a lot of people, I was definitely younger, I was younger than 10 years old, but yeah I remember, I just remember just seeing like, a huge gathering of people. It was not too far away, it was probably like a block, maybe two blocks away, it was a huge mass, but yeah, it was like the one time where I really saw, like, what it was like to be in a… closer to a protest, ‘cause I was never actually in a protest, I never actually protested.
G: Did your parents ever protest?
A: No they didn’t, they didn't, it was mainly my grandparents that went to protests and stuff like that.
G: Did they go, like your parents, or not parents, grandparents, did they go protesting like in the 90s, or like into the 2000s?
A: No, it was mainly, ‘cause they never had, they never felt a reason to protest with previous government, that's not to say they were perfect, because every government, I think, ever since the 1940’s to now has been corrupt, so they’ve never actually been good institutions, but they didn't start doing it until 2009-2010, that's when they really started doing it.
G: And that was in protest during-
A: Chavez’s rule, yea.
[00:42:09] G: Yeah… Yeah, well this was very awesome, very enlightening to talk to you about, and I think we’re just gonna end it here. Thank you, Andrés.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
TRANSCRIBED BY: Gabriella Montes, March 22, 2023
EDITED BY: Gabriella Montes, April 5, 2023
Es: Transcripción
Gabriella: Ok, My name is Gabriella Montes. I am here with…
Andrés: Andrés.
Gabriella: And we are at my house. The time is 8:57 p.m., and today is March 14th 2023, and today we will be discussing Andrés’ migration journey from Venezuela to North Carolina, and yeah, are you consenting to this interview, Andrés?
Andrés: Yes [pause] I consent.
G: All right, so, if you want to just like start off and just say like your name, age, occupations, school, and all that kind of stuff.
[00:00:55] A: So my name is Andrés Jésus Cáceres Rodriguéz, I’m twenty years old, I turned twenty not too long ago on March 5th, I'm currently going to school at NC State, trying to get my degree in chemical engineering, my bachelor's degree in chemical engineering, and I've previously worked at a cabinet manufacturing company as a cabinet painter, so that was really good. That was my first real job, and right now I'm looking into getting an internship at Sherwin-Williams, engineering internship, so that's cool.
G: Awesome, okay, and can you tell just like a little bit more about yourself, and just like, briefly describe your connection to like, your migration journey and your heritage?
[00:02:30] A: so, I was born in a smaller subdivision in Caracas, so I was born in Chacao, which is – a lot of people say its Caracas, but it's like, technically not – it’s like two minutes away from the main city, so it's technically not Caracas, but it's so close that people still call it that. I was born in a small clinic, and I lived in my grandparents’ house for 9 years until I moved to – we moved to our own apartment, but, I was basically raised mainly by my grandparents ‘cause, my parents were always working. They were always out and doing their own thing, and my grandparents were always at home.
G: And, like, do you want to talk a little more about your relationship with your grandparents, was it like your mom's parents or your dad's parents?
A: It was my mom’s parents, so my dad's parents – they lived a little bit farther away and we got to see them like for family reunions and stuff like that but – it was mainly, I mainly lived around my mom's parents, and they're always very, very nice and very patient, because they certainly didn't have to do that for my parents, but the fact that they were still able to be there with us, and take care of us and take us to school it was, it was something that I'm sure my parents are very thankful for and I'm very thankful for it, ‘cause I got to spend more time with them, so yeah.
G: They were like a second set of parents for you, for like, the first, almost, ten years of your life?
A: Yea basically, they were always there for me, my grandpa was actually the one who… I was into sports when I was younger. I did baseball for five years, and I swam for 3 years, and he was always the one to take me to practice, he was always the one to, basically drive me around and I would always do stuff with him. Yeah, he was my main guy for like a really long time, so…
G: That's so sweet – and are those the grandparents – do they still like, visit you guys or do you still visit them?
A: Yea, so they actually still live here. They live in Miami right now, but they rotate six months in Miami, and six months here.
G: Ok, and they live with you guys, like, when they come here. Do they live with you guys for like a few months in the summer?
A: Yea, so, this past year they actually lived the whole six months, because my aunt, she wasn't really in a situation where she could have them. We welcomed them to our house because she couldn't, but it's usually… they usually live 3 months with my aunt, and 3 months with us.
G: Thats nice.
A: Yeah they… it's not really, Venezuela is not really in a suitable situation for them to go back.
G: Yeah, so, when was the last time they were there?
A: I wanna say 2020… definitely before the pandemic, that's for sure… tempted to say 2018, was the last time they were back there.
G: And then, those are your mom’s parents?
A: My mom’s parents, yeah.
G: And so, just for the recording, Andrés and I have been friends for like, I don't know, seven years, I think, and you’ve talked to me about your grandpa before, and is this the same grandpa that lived in Puerto Rico?
A: He is Puerto Rican.
G: Ok.
A: He is Puerto Rican.
G: Ok, and do you wanna expand on that a little more on that?
A: Sure, yea, so my grandpa, his mother was German and his father was Dominican, but they – during the second World War – my grandma, well my great grandma, my grandpa’s mom, she had to leave. She had to leave Germany, so she did, and she went to, Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic, and then she met my grandpa’s dad there, and then they settled down in Puerto Rico, not long after, and that's where they had him. And then he lived there for, I’d say like, 2 years of his life, and then they moved to Puerto Rico – or sorry – they moved back to Santo Domingo, so he ended up living in Dominican Republic for, for a while and then, I can't remember exactly when he left to go to Venezuela, but it was – he was still young, he was still young.
G: And then, that's where he met your grandma?
A: My grandma, mhm, so he met my grandma… it's a funny story, he would go – he was really in love – he would go 12 hours to see her every weekend, like, ‘cause he was working at a research lab – I think it was a research lab – because he was a agriculture engineer, he did a lot of work with meat production and dairy production, and when he was off, he would drive 12 hours to go see her in Merida, ‘cause he was working – I can't remember where he was working – but I just know it was 12 hours away from where my grandma lived.
G: Yea.
A: Which was in a very small town close to the Andes, it was very small.
G: Oh wow, wow, ‘cause Merida is like in the northern part of-
A: Very close to Colombia, yea.
G: Wow, that's so cute, aw.
A: Yea, twelve hours…
G: Wow, so he’s dedicated!
A: He was dedicated!
G: Ok, so what was, to get back into like more about you, what was school like while you were in Venezuela?
[00:08:15] A: So I went to a private Catholic school, it’s called Santo Tomas de Villanueva, and I went there, from, I want to say right before first grade, – so what we call it over there is preparatorio – and I went there all the way up to 5th grade, which was right when I left, and that school, it really shaped me, like, I'm not necessarily the most religious person today, but the values it instilled in me, I think school had a lot to do with that. They had a lot of core values, that we were exposed to everyday, basically, because we had a lot of classes that dealt with values and family and stuff like that.
G: And is that like, common for kids in Venezuela to go to private Catholic schools or?
A: It is more common for kids to go to private schools, because public schools over there don't really function that well, and they’re no longer – it's not like here where you have a public school system, its kinda like, you have several schools scattered around. It's mainly more common for people to go to private schools, and private schools over there – back when I was still there – they were not that expensive, so people with middle to lower income could still afford putting their kids in private school.
G: So like families who had kids, it was typically like they were either going to private Catholic schools or just private schools?
A: Yea, pretty much.
G: I guess like, do you want to talk a little more about like, the friends you met, ‘cause you said it was like very formative for you, so do you want to talk more about any teachers that were memorable to you?
A: Oh yea, oh yea, so I still regularly communicate with a lot of the friends I made over there, yea we – I like to play videogames, and they play a lot of the same video games that I do, and so that's one of the main ways I keep in contact, you know, just playing video games when I have time, whenever I’m not doing schoolwork, I’m probably just talking or playing with them. As for teacher, my mom actually still keeps in contact with one of the professors over there, who still – she kind of asks about me from time to time and I talked to her through – I still don't know why I don't have her number – but whenever my mom, whenever she gets a message from her, she'll show me, and I'll respond but –
G: It's always through your mom?
A: It's always through my mom.
G: Yea.
A: Just haven't gotten around to – there's really no reason as to why, I just haven't gotten her, in contact with her, personally – but yeah I’ve gotten into contact with her from time to time. Whenever she reaches out – she was my fifth grade, third and fifth grade math teacher – and she always said I was good with numbers and she thought I would go into like something related to numbers and I did, so.
G: Does she know that you're currently studying chemical engineering?
A: Yea she knows, yea I talked – we had a conversation about it four months ago,
G: Really?
A: Yeah, that I was in a chemical engineering program here.
G: And like, what was like, her reaction?
A: She was – she told my mom, ‘cause I had to I had to go back to what I was doing, but she was telling my mom like how proud she was of the achievements, and the fact that I've been able to find a program and be successful here after after moving. She was very proud that she met me and had such a good time with me as her student, and to see me like be successful somewhere else was really cool for her to see. She was proud, she was proud.
[00:13:17] G: That's awesome, awe, ok, so I guess to kinda like, take a bit of a sharp left turn, were you ever aware of the instability in Venezuela, and with the riots that were going on, ‘cause, when exactly did you leave Venezuela?
A: I left in October of 2014, and the riots had been going on for about two years, or maybe even more actually, but I remember my family constantly like, talking about the fact there's a riot close to where I went to school, semi-often, you know, you could see a little bit of smoke in the distance, you could see it above the treeline, you could see smoke, you couldn't hear anything, but you could see the smoke, and my parents usually knew that, “oh, there's something going on over there like,” ‘cause it's not usually normal just seeing smoke over the tree line.
G: Yeah.
A: So, yeah, so, those have been going on for a while.
G: Did it ever, like, interfere with your school week, like did you ever have school canceled because of those riots?
A: I don't, I don't actually think school was ever canceled because of the riots, I think maybe once, but, you know, they were mainly in the city. I was a little bit farther away from the capital city, I was like 5 minutes away, so they were mainly over there in the very-
G: Ohhh
A: -populated, like super dense areas, ‘cause where I went to school, it was still a really dense area, but it was more-
G: Definitely away from the center of it all,
A: And it was a little bit of a, there was more money in the area, so people didn't really go there to riot.
G: And did you like, so with the riots basically just being like so close to your school, did you ever have any kind of like, first-hand experience or exposure to them, besides seeing the smoke from the tree line?
A: No but I did have other experiences, not in school. I had seen them before, I saw them when I was going to my other grandparents house, my dad’s parents. They live in a little bit of a more unsafe area, where a lot of those things would tend to happen.
G: What area is that?
A: It's El Valle. It's a little bit of more, I guess, poor area, where they lived, and that's where a lot of those things would happen, a lot of the riots would happen there. I remember one time we were going over there just for a family reunion to see my grandparents, and it was going down, it was really going down, yea I was… the police were posted up in a line formation with their shields,
G: Oh my gosh.
A: And the people were in the – what are they called?
G: Goggles?
A: No not goggles, they were like, balaclavas or something?
G: Ohh yea yea.
A: Yea, everyone was wearing those, to protect themselves from the smoke bombs, cause they would use tear gas on them, the military or the police would use tear gas on them, and it was only that one time that I really gotta see it, that was close.
G: How did you feel, how old were you?
A: So, it was in 2012, or 2013, the year before I left, so I was 10, I was almost 11.
G: And how did you like feel in that moment, that must’ve been scary, was it right outside?
A: It was not outside my grandparent’s place, it was a little bit off to the side, closer to a mall that they had close. So there was a lot of traffic, so we kind of were forced to look at it for a while and see everyone like, see the chaos pretty much, it was pretty chaotic.
G: Wow.
A: But I was never physically in one of those. I do remember my grandparents, they felt compelled to go to the protests, they weren’t riots, they were more like protests where people, you know, masses of people would gather and basically gather from one end of a really long avenue to another, and they did that to like raise awareness, and retaliate against the government. But it was never violent, it was more like a, you know just, a peaceful protest.
[00:18:40] G: Yeah. So in mentioning the protest, you said like, “raising awareness about what was going on in the government,” can you like describe more of what exactly was going on with the government?
A: So the government… Venezuela is incredibly corrupt. They steal, and they launder money, and they traffic a lot of drugs – they traffic drugs to the United States – they steal from the people, and they've cheated their way through every single election since they've been elected, since Chavez was elected in ‘99. I remember my parents, when Maduro got elected, it was like, they voted for the other candidate, I don't remember the other candidate, but whenever we got the news that Maduro had been elected, they weren't really surprised, they were kind of just like, “we really didn't want it to happen, but we're not surprised that it did.”
G: Yea.
A: Because it's just how the government operates, it's corrupt, and it's… it's just full of liars, so yeah in that regard, I've always been aware of the people in charge and how they are, and I've always been around it.
G: And how long, cause, it was Chavez, but now it's Maduro, right? So how long has he been in power?
A: He got elected, well he didn't get elected, presidency was passed down to him, because he was the vice president, and then-
G: From Chavez?
A: Yea, and then they had their elections, but they weren't really elections ‘cause he was gonna win anyways,
G: Yea.
A: So, they had their democratic elections after Chavez died from cancer back in 2013, he died, and then Maduro got elected, or he stepped into the presidency, that's when he became president.
G: So, he's been in power for almost 10 years now?
A: Yea, almost, I think yea.
G: Under the guise of, quote unquote, democracy.
A: Yea, under the guise of “democracy.”
[00:21:20] G: Wow, so that was around the same time you guys basically like, moved to the U.S. and, do you want to explain more on like, I know you already said when, it was like October 2014, so, why did you guys come to the specifically North Carolina, you could’ve gone anywhere else, why North Carolina?
A: Yeah, so, my parents had been talking to my aunt, who also lives in North Carolina, and she basically said that, you know, if we kind of wanted to break from the city, and the busy life, that Waxhaw – which is where she lived – would be a pretty drastic, but good change for us, and also the fact that, you know, she could give us a place to live at least until we got our bearings.
G: Yeah.
A: Yeah so we moved with her for about six months, she was always great to us, I'm really thankful for her and the time that she was able to give us, to get our bearings. And then we we moved to Indian Trail, but I think my parents decided to move here – they've been in the process of getting our documentation since 1999, which is when Chavez got elected, because my mom was like, “all right…” she really did not like him as a presidential candidate or as a president, so she kind of kick-started the process of getting all our papers and getting — well, getting their papers first, ‘cause I wasn't even in the picture in 1999, but the turning point, I think, for actually finishing out the process was 2012, which is when my mom really was like, cause it was kinda in the back of their minds in 1999 all the way through like 2010, they were kind of like, “stuff is good,” you know, my dad had a very stable job, my mom also had a stable job, so they kind of put it off, and they didn't really think about it, ‘cause they didn't think we were going to have to move. My mom still wanted to have that, just as a safeguard, and it wasn't until 2012, where she was like, “all right, we, we need to, we need to finish this.”
G: So when did, like, I'm not very well versed with the whole like, papers and documentation things, so when did like, your mom, get papers? So was it like the green card first or like?
A: So we had to, I actually don't don't know the order of things, but I do remember the day that they were finalized.
G: Yeah.
[00:23:45] A: I do remember going to the Embassy, US Embassy, we were there for
roughly 8 hours.
G: Yeah.
A: We were there maybe, maybe a little bit more, and we were waiting for our turn to, basically, ‘cause my parents had to talk to one of the Embassy agents, I don't really know what they're called, but, they had to sign documents and go through, like, the small interview process, and then they would be sworn in. They would have to take an oath to the United States, that's when I remember seeing like, our actual documents in their hand.
G: So it was all four of you guys at the same time?
A: Yea, it was all four of us.
G: And how old were…
A: I was ten.
G: So, like 2013?
A: Yep, it was, I think it might have been right before, a little bit before my birthday… that time is kind of, I don't really remember dates that well from that time, but, it was definitely between the end of 2013 and October 2014. It was really close actually I think, it was really close to October 2014.
G: It was like, just in time.
A: Yea, it was just in time.
G: Ok, yea those Embassy and like, naturalization process takes..
A: They take a while, yeah.
[00:25:40] G: Can you talk a little more about your adjustment to your new life in North Carolina, so like, in terms of like, making new friends, going to school, all that kind of stuff.
A: So I went to, when I moved to Waxhaw, I went to Cuthbertson, which is a predominantly white middle school, so I didnt, I’d say I kinda struggled to make friends there, ‘cause I didn't know the language yet, but I did meet this one Colombian kid who was really, we were good friends until I moved away. His name is Federico and he was cool, but making friends was hard at Cuthbertson, and I'd say I really only had him as my friend, and it was, it was I think, the most difficult part of it for me was the fact that I was always kind of high achieving… I was always like, I was kind of like, a little bit rough on myself if I didn't excel in academics, which I did not at Cuthbertson, because of the language barrier.
G: Yea.
A: Yea like I, it was like-
G: They just kinda threw you in there.
A: Yea, they kinda just threw me in there, which I really had no other choice, ‘cause I had to go to school, but I didn't know the language and that was kinda, that I was just really hard on myself for, for a time because, I wasn't used to… I just have really high standards for myself and underperformance is something I couldn't really handle very well back then, and I wasn't really aware of how to handle, so I'd say that was one of the harder things, making friends was also really hard, and then just communication, was just, I just really wanted to talk to my professor, and my teacher and classmates, but it was just wasn't possible for like a few months, and there was also the, like, there's also a little bit of bullying, from like, like two kids. I didn't really know what they were saying, at the time, but I could tell they were like talking about me, but, overall I think I got pretty lucky, actually, going to Cuthbertson, ‘cause it was a really nice school, I liked it, it was just hard at the beginning, it was just something really huge, it was just a really huge change, going from-
G: It's a hard change.
A: A large Catholic school to a school in a completely different language and completely different country. I was with my friends, I've been with my friends from the school in Venezuela, from before first grade all the way up to 5th grade.
G: Yeah.
A: So, I didn't really have that support system anymore, I didn't have those friends that have been with me for 6 years.
G: Yeah.
A: You know, I was with a completely new group of people and new teachers and new faces and completely new language, so, that was… that was hard to adjust to but, yea.
G: And then, so, you went to Cuthbertson for your first year of middle school right?
A: Mhm, well I left Cuthbertson halfway through the year, and I went to Sun Valley, which is where I met you, about… I wanna say like, a month after I moved to Sun Valley is when I met you.
G: I remember it was the summer before seventh grade.
A: Summer before seventh grade?
G: Yea.
A: Well I remember seeing you in the hallways, and… but maybe we didn't have a real conversation until the summer.
G: Yea, yea, and then, so like, and that was like finally some stability for you, and like, you graduated from Sun Valley middle, so, talk more about… if it was nice to have that stability.
A: So yeah we were finally done moving. My parents had like, “I think we can settle down here for a while,” and we ended up settling down, and I stayed in Sun Valley until 8th grade, which was when I graduated middle school, so that was nice. It was nice to finally have some sense of belonging and in a new place, ‘cause at Cuthbertson, I barely got to adjust, and even when I left I still didn't feel like, fully adjusted, but then I got to Sun Valley and it was that same process all over again. At least at that point I kind of had the language to kind of-
G: Yeah.
A: – Kinda had it, but not fully, but I could at least make friends and communicate with people and communicate any concerns to my, my teachers and stuff like that, but it was the point where I was like, okay we’re just gonna settle down and be fine, yeah.
G: Do you have any like, moments in middle school after Cuthbertson, where, like… did you have any friends in Sun Valley where it was like, “okay they're like, a bit of a godsend, thank God, I have a friend who's gonna look out for me,” or even like teachers too?
A: Yea, I would say you were definitely one of those people for me, in seventh grade, I definitely saw you as a, as a person I could rely on, in terms of other people, I'd say, I had really good science eighth grade Professor – I don't know if you remember him – Mr. Barron, he was great.
G: Mr. Barron…
A: Mr. Barron.
G: I remember the name, was it for the AIG team?
A: No I was only in the AIG for English.
G: Ok.
A: Yea I only had AIG for English, but he was great, he was always like, super friendly and nice and understanding, and yea I think that's it.
[00:33:10] G: Yeah ok, well I kind of wanted like, to backtrack ‘cause, I don't know if you mentioned it in the recording, or during the recording, but it was before the recording. Do you think you can talk a little bit more about the CLAP program, and what you know about it and what your friends have told you about it?
A: Yeah, so, this program, the one that Gaby's mentioning right now, is a mitigation program for the people of Venezuela, so it's trying to deal with the fact that food items are very scarce, your basic necessity items are really scarce, so back in 2016, Maduro established a program to try to mitigate, quote unquote, mitigate the humanitarian issue, which is the food problem in Venezuela. And it's basically a little box of a protein, but most of the time it's going to be rice, pasta, any sort of bean, usually it's black beans, but it's usually for lower income families. They get them once every 2 months. So, it's definitely not something that is sustainable, that program isn't sustainable for people getting a box of that size every 2 months is not the solution to the problem, and this problem has been going on for, ever since I left. The problem’s been getting worse, but it was always present, ever since 2010 is when it really started. But, in 2014 is when it started getting really bad, where you couldn't find your, you know, basic need items like, toilet paper or chicken or rice – rice was especially hard to find – and yeah, you, I remember, I just remember seeing really, really long lines at the supermarket like, huge like probably 50 meter, maybe 100 meters lines.
G: Yeah.
A: Just of people just waiting to get food.
G: Yeah, and like basic necessities.
A: Yeah, I don't know if you've seen videos like that, of people, in Colombia, like, people line up for food.
G: Yeah, it's ridiculous and sometimes like, stores will close while people are in line and they won't get their stuff.
A: They won't get their food, no.
G: That is, yeah, that is not very sustainable for a country.
A: No it’s not.
[00:36:05] G: Before I forget, do you have any family left in Venezuela?
A: I do, so, I have some of my cousins, It's mainly my, my dad's side still over there in Venezuela, I have some aunts, great aunts, cousins… they're still all, they're scattered around the country, some of them are in Maracaibo, some of them are in Caracas, and some of them are closer to the coast, but I still have a lot of people over there.
G: And do you know, like, do you like communicate with them often to know, like, how they're doing?
A: I communicate mainly with my cousins, because a lot of my family members over there don't really have phones, or they don't really have social media like that so, I mainly communicate with my cousins. My closer cousins. And they, I always saw them during our family reunions, so I've been, kept in contact with them because of, mainly because they have social media and they have a cell phone and they're just closer.
G: Ok, and the same thing with like, your friends, you just keep in contact with them through like, social media and video games?
A: Yes I do, a lot of like, a lot of them, it's been real easy to keep in contact with a lot of them, because they're, they're a lot younger than the, most of my family is, over there, there's a lot of the family that I have left over there is a little bit older, they're probably in like their 50s or 60s.
G: Even your cousins?
A: No my, everyone except for my cousins, is more like in their 50s and 60s, because the people that are a lot younger have left.
G: And where, like, are they in North Carolina?
A: No, there's some in Germany, there's some in Spain, there's one in Italy, and I think that's it.
G: And did they leave for the same reason?
A: Yeah, they left for the same stability/instability reasons as I did, it's just a really unsustainable place to live in right now, it's just, there's no way with the food, the food issue and the income issue, it's just not sustainable.
G: I remember like, in middle school, learning about all the instability and, like, learning about the inflation there, and how like the inflation was ridiculous, like.
A: Yeah, it is, I think the rate of inflation there is the highest in the world.
G: Alright, well I think this is a good place to end it, did you want to share anything else that may have come up that I didn't ask you about?
[00:39:40] A: I didn't talk, I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about the election process over there, and how it was, it was just, the election process over there, my parents would always, I remember getting up really early to go with my parents to vote, and they were always really excited to go do it because, you know, they wanted to do their, their job as citizens, which was to vote, but I remember one time we were going, it was, I don't remember the year of this election, but we were going down there, and there was a protest nearby, and that was one of the times where I've actually seen it, like, seen a protest, not, not a riot, but a protest that was like, really the only time where I've been close to what it, what it was like for people to go and protest, yeah.
G: How did you feel and like, how old were you?
A: It was scary, it was a lot of people, I was definitely younger, I was younger than 10 years old, but yeah I remember, I just remember just seeing like, a huge gathering of people. It was not too far away, it was probably like a block, maybe two blocks away, it was a huge mass, but yeah, it was like the one time where I really saw, like, what it was like to be in a… closer to a protest, ‘cause I was never actually in a protest, I never actually protested.
G: Did your parents ever protest?
A: No they didn’t, they didn't, it was mainly my grandparents that went to protests and stuff like that.
G: Did they go, like your parents, or not parents, grandparents, did they go protesting like in the 90s, or like into the 2000s?
A: No, it was mainly, ‘cause they never had, they never felt a reason to protest with previous government, that's not to say they were perfect, because every government, I think, ever since the 1940’s to now has been corrupt, so they’ve never actually been good institutions, but they didn't start doing it until 2009-2010, that's when they really started doing it.
G: And that was in protest during-
A: Chavez’s rule, yea.
[00:42:09] G: Yeah… Yeah, well this was very awesome, very enlightening to talk to you about, and I think we’re just gonna end it here. Thank you, Andrés.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
TRANSCRIBED BY: Gabriella Montes, March 22, 2023
EDITED BY: Gabriella Montes, April 5, 2023
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
R-1017 -- Cáceres Rodríguez, Andrés Jésus.
Description
An account of the resource
In this interview, interviewer Gabriella Montes learns about Venezuela’s recent history as experienced by her long-time friend, Andrés Cáceres. He describes the first ten years of his life in his city of origin, Caracas, Venezuela. He explains details about his family relationships, home life and school life as he grew up in the economic turmoil occurring in Venezuela since the 1940s. He shares his experience being a new student, his struggle in school in North Carolina, and how difficult this overall adjustment was. Andrés recounts that despite this struggle in the U.S., as well as Venezuela, he misses his home country, and mentions some of the happier moments he had back home and the friends and experiences he’s made here.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-14
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29364">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1017_Audio.mp3
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/837ff0a94570b5e7b4b50ddd6637c0ef.mp3
26fab603addf0bdec8339fa03cf4848e
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/2478ef0c5ee734749865edcbd2de33bf.pdf
b036c00a47d0b657791ae14ccfd9fb33
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1014
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2023-04-18
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Bautista, Elsi.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Seamstresses
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1979
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Valladolid -- Lempira -- Honduras
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Raleigh -- Wake County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-88.70652770996094 14.153736114501953),1979,1;POINT(-78.6390989 35.7803977),2005,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Bautista-Ayala, Johana.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Spanish
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
This interview was conducted in Spanish by Johana Bautista-Ayala with her mother, Elsi Bautista. Throughout the interview, Elsi tells us her family’s perspective and history on their migration experience from Honduras to the United States due to environmental factors, primarily the disaster caused by Hurricane Mitch. Elsi recounts much of this dramatic experience such as: the lack of information to prepare for what was coming and in the aftermath; the destruction of homes, loss of livestock, and other economic challenges; life sheltering at a school even after schools returned in session; the loss of community leadership, including the death of the governor; and the aid sent by the United States, much of which Elsi believes never reached the affected communities.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Elsi Bautista by Johana Bautista-Ayala, 18 April 2023, R-1014, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29358
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Communications technology; Education; Migratory experience; Receiving communities; Environmental Factors
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Costureras
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Español
Es: Resumen
Esta entrevista fue realizada en español por Johana Bautista-Ayala con su madre, Elsi Bautista. A lo largo de la entrevista, Elsi nos cuenta su perspectiva e historia de familia acerca de su experiencia migratoria de Honduras a Estados Unidos debido a factores medioambientales, principalmente el desastre causado por el huracán Mitch. Elsi relata gran parte de esta dramática experiencia, como: la falta de información para prepararse para lo que se avecinaba y las secuelas; la destrucción de hogares, la pérdida de ganado y otros problemas económicos; la vida refugiada en una escuela incluso después de que los alumnos volvieran a entrar en sesión; la pérdida del liderazgo de la comunidad, incluyendo la muerte del gobernador; y la ayuda enviada por los Estados Unidos, gran parte de la cual Elsi cree que nunca llegó a las comunidades afectadas.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Elsi Bautista por Johana Bautista-Ayala, 18 April 2023, R-1014, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Comunidades receptoras; Educación; Experiencia migratoria; Factores ambientales; Tecnología de las comunicaciones
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:03] Johana Bautista: Hola, mi nombre es Johana Bautista, soy estudiante de la
Universidad de Chapel Hill en North Carolina y hoy tengo el gusto de entrevistar a Elsi Bautista. Hola Elsi, ¿Me puedes contar un poquito sobre tu historia de migración?
[00:00:19] Elsi Bautista: Sí, hace como veinte, veintitrés años yo llegué al país. Vine, conseguí una visa para México y de México para acá. Llegué en avión, pero sí me tardé como tres meses para hacer el proceso porque no fue tan fácil para entrar aquí a este país.
JB: Y el procedimiento para poder recibir una visa para ir a México, ¿fue largo y difícil o de qué consistía?
EB: Sí, teníamos que conseguir muchos papeles para pagar abogados y tener conexiones para que ellos pudieran ayudarnos y el proceso fuera más rápido.
JB: ¿Y fue caro me imagino?
EB: Sí. Mucho dinero.
JB: ¿Y cómo pudo obtener todo ese dinero para poder?
EB: Yo trabajaba en una fábrica de maquilas y ya mi esposo, él ya ha tenido un año que él estaba acá y él me ayudaba con el dinero.
JB: ¿Y qué año fue que se vino su esposo?
EB: Él se vino en 1999 y yo me vine en el 2000.
JB: Y ya me imagino que ustedes saben sobre lo que ocurrió en Honduras y en Centroamérica con huracán Mitch, que ocurrió en 1998. Le quiero preguntar específicamente a este evento. ¿Qué se acuerda usted del huracán Mitch?
EB: Yo no miraba ni las noticias, yo me levanté como un día normal, fui al trabajo, cuando yo llegué todas las personas estaban en huelga porque dijeron no vamos a trabajar porque todo esto aquí está en lo bajo y se va a inundar y tenemos que regresarnos para nuestras casas. Entonces cuando ya regresamos a las casas ya no había ni transportación, me costó llegar a la casa y no pude ni entrar donde yo tenía las cosas. Todavía estaba mi esposo y él fue a poner las camas en lo alto en unas mesas para que no se mojaran y nos fuimos para conseguir albergue en otros lugares donde era más seguro y allí estuvimos y siempre el agua entraba y eso fue muy difícil porque ya se aproximaba. Fue en octubre entonces en los trabajos eso fue muy difícil sin dinero y en las noticias se miraban tanta cosa sobre las personas. Los niños y los cadáveres se miraban nadando. Y también exageraban las noticias tal vez o si sucedió eso porque se llenó completamente y nadie estaba preparado para eso.
JB: Y tú mencionaste de la huelga que ocurrió. ¿Este día fue esta huelga comenzó mucho antes que viniera el huracán en preparación, u ocurrió el mismo día que el huracán tocó suelo?
EB: El mismo día que el huracán porque fue un domingo, el lunes por la mañana nosotros nos presentamos a trabajar. Entonces ya fue el lunes que ya comenzaba y ya se estaba llenando de agua porque toda la noche comenzó a la lluvia y parte del domingo y ya estaba el lunes fuerte entonces ya desde allí comenzó.
JB: ¿Y su casa estaba cerca de estas maquilas o estaba lejos?
EB: Yo estaba como a trece millas.
JB: ¿Cómo cuánto minutos?
EB: Sí, media hora.
JB: Media hora normalmente y ya como usted mencionó que la transportación estuvo bien difícil este día. ¿Cuánto tiempo le tocó esperar para poder llegar a su casa?
EB: Sí, había taxistas, porque eran más directos y costó, me imagino como unos cien lempiras.
JB: ¿Pero y de tiempo ¿Cuánto fue?
EB: Como hora y media.
JB: Wow, okay. Bueno muchas gracias por compartir su día enfrentando el huracán y usted menciono de los albergues que habían en preparación para cuidar de las personas. ¿Esto era para toda la comunidad o solo era para las personas que trabajaban en las maquilas?
EB: Si para toda la comunidad porque la lluvia era tan fuerte que se llevaba a las casas y entonces las escuelas las necesitaron para eso colegios todos los lugares así hospitales, pero casi todo estaba colapsado porque la mayoría de personas vivían en lo bajo y no estaban completamente ellos no nunca había pasado un desastre tan horroroso como eso.
JB: ¿Y fue el gobierno que dijo que todos se fueran para estas escuelas o fue la misma comunidad que dijo “vámonos todos para las escuelas?”
EB: Sí fue el gobierno que dijo de que como eso las escuelas y todo eso eran del gobierno y así todas las personas ayudando una con otra.
JB: Sí. Bueno me imagino que usted sabe de los dos huracanes que ha ocurrido como huracán Irma y también el huracán María que afectó a mucho de Centroamérica y también Puerto Rico. Yo digo eso porque cuando pasó estos eventos siempre hay un caos qué pasa que la gente comienza a alocarse, no hay comida y no hay muchos materiales. Le quiero preguntar específicamente con Huracán Mitch cuando esto ocurrió en Honduras. ¿Cómo estaban todas las cosas en las tiendas? Me imagino que fue difícil encontrar comida o aún estaba en la etapa que había todavía comida.
EB: Sí, había porque nadie creía, nadie pensó que eso iba a ser fuerte porque las personas que jugaban fútbol estaban ese domingo haciendo todas las actividades, todo era normal. El problema fue ya en la noche cuando comenzó el agua, pero fuerte, que ya se empezaron a tapar todos los lugares los desagües, las mangueras de agua, porque había mucha basura en las calles, y en nada de preparación.
JB: ¿Había ocurrido un huracán antes de esta fecha?
EB: No, que yo sepa no, él fue el primero que yo pasé.
JB: Sí. Y después ¿Cuánto tiempo estuvo usted ahí en el albergue, esperando el huracán pasar?
EB: Como un mes.
JB: ¿Y su casa o su hogar como quedó después del huracán?
EB: Cuando yo llegué todavía el agua estaba por la por la mesa y ya todas las cosas que habíamos puesto así arriba no estaban tan mojadas. Pero paredes y todas las cosas los trastes todo eso andaba nadando todavía. Ahí tenemos que tener cuidado porque era el agua se miraba sucia. Entonces no si uno para caminar se podía meter en algún hoyo, algún vidrio, alguna cosa, eso era terrible.
JB: ¿Y lograron salvar la mayoría de sus cosas o todo estaba mojado?
EB: Sí algunas cosas se salvaron las que no perjudicaban el agua. Pero la mayoría de las cosas si se perdieron.
JB: ¿Y tuvieron que ir a comprar cosas nuevas después, me imagino?
EB: Si trabajar para comprarla eso costó.
JB: ¿Y sus amigos también enfrentaron situaciones iguales a la suya o fue completamente diferentes?
EB: Algotras completamente diferente porque ellos perdieron la casa y se quedaron completamente sin nada y lo que tenían era solamente que les ayudaban para que ellos pasaran en las escuelas. Llegó como en febrero, ellos comienzan a abrir las clases los maestros y todavía eso estaba lleno de personas que no tenían casa, no tenían nada. Ahí vivían completamente.
JB: ¿Y qué decían los maestros con las personas viviendo ahí?
EB: Tuvieron que suspender clases porque no había ni internet ni nada, sino que todo eso se atrasó.
JB: ¿Y qué pasó con la electricidad, se fue completamente durante el huracán?
EB: Sí, mucho tiempo se fue la electricidad, no había nada y me recuerdo cuando ya casi estaba pasando el huracán. Vino el—no el gobernador—o el alcalde de Tegucigalpa, que es la capital de Honduras, fue dijo voy a ir a revisar cómo se ve, el cómo ha quedado Honduras, y empezó a pilotear con yo creo el acompañante el helicóptero, y a las pocas horas se derribó, murió él.
JB: ¿Murió el alcalde?
EB: Si fue más triste. Después que estaba completamente el país con problemas ya el alcalde había perdido la vida.
JB: Y me imagino que esto llegó a todas las noticias, no solo de Honduras, sino que también afuera. ¿Cree usted que esto colocó más ayuda para Honduras o afectó las noticias enteramente?
EB: No sé yo, como pasaría eso sí pero sí se recibió de otros países apoyaron porque ellos mandaron a hacer casas, programas, así para las personas que ellas pudieran ir a trabajar porque no había dinero, sino que con trabajo ellos podían ayudar para ir haciendo las colonias, las casas y entregarles a las personas que completamente no tenían habían quedado sin nada. Pero eso duró como dos años para que las casas las terminaran porque ellos mismos se terminaban. La trabajaban para terminarla.
JB: Y usted mencionó que en su casa--. Bueno en su casa no más tenía daño de agua. ¿Hace cuánto tiempo tomó para poder recuperar todas las cosas? ¿Volver a colocar todo de nuevo como estaba? ¿Arreglar las paredes?
EB: Sí, como un mes.
JB: En un mes pudieron.
EB: Recuerdo todavía lo que usamos para limpiar olores así para limpiar el piso, las paredes, después no podíamos ni olerlo porque nos recordaba mucho.
JB: ¿Eso era un olor fuerte?
EB: Ajá un olor fuerte porque era para desinfectarse aún las paredes y todo eso y sí sentíamos este nos recordaba [laughs] y si, sentíamos el olor ese que nos recordaba el huracán.
JB: ¿Y cómo sacaron el agua del de la casa?
EB: Ya fue bajando, este--. Empezaron a limpiar las cunetas ellas le llaman ahí este a limpiarla, a quitarles la basura y ya un poco fue a saliendo el agua.
JB: ¿Y tuvieron que botar algunas cosas, me imagino?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿La ropa?
EB: Sí, todo lo que estaba mojado, lo que quedó completamente perdido.
JB: ¿Y usted mencionó que su esposo colocó la cama más alta, la cama se pudo salvar o tampoco?
EB: Sí, se salvó porque la parte de abajo sí eso sí estaba mojado. Pero se la pusimos al sol y así.
JB: ¿Y el colchón quedó mojado o?
EB: No, solo se secó.
JB: ¿Solo fue la base entonces?
EB: Si.
JB: Y había otro ¿Cómo se dice? Furniture que quedó dañado?
EB: Sí las mesas, trastes todo.
JB: Todo quedó. ¿Y eso tuvieron que reponerlo ustedes de su propio dinero?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿No hubo ni una ayuda del gobierno?
EB: No, ellos lo que ayudaban era más con comida.
JB: ¿Y también con las casas?
EB: Sí, porque ahí en el trabajo cuando ya nosotros regresamos, ellos sí nos ayudaban. Y nos daban provisiones, cajas con materiales para que ya pudiéramos cocinar. Cosas enlatadas me imagino que otros países habían enviado para que nos dieran.
JB: Y en su trabajo. ¿Cómo les ayudaron, les dieron tiempo libre para poder?
EB: Si dieron las personas que completamente habían perdido todo para que se volvieran a nivelar si les dieron tiempo libre.
JB: ¿Y les dieron algún bono para ayudarles?
EB: Sí les dieron bono.
JB: Sí. Bueno, me alegro de que les pudieron ayudar. Ahora le quiero preguntar si ahora que está en los Estados Unidos, ¿usted ha notado algún aumento a lo largo de los años en la migración, a causa de los factores ambientales?
EB: ¿Cómo? No lo entiendo, ¿qué ambientales cómo?
JB: Como huracanes, tornados o también diferentes factores como está muy caliente o como países que están bien cerca lo que se llama el equator a veces son muy calientes para eso entonces ellos tienen que salir de esos lugares. También son factores que causan que vengan y salgan de su país. Viviendo aquí en North Carolina, los Estados Unidos, ¿Cómo ha visto usted tal vez a sus amigos en el trabajo? Que las familias han venido a causa de estos factores.
EB: Sí, aquí incluso dieron papeles. Todavía hay personas que están este un permiso de trabajo para que ellos pudieran trabajar desde ese tiempo todavía ellos los están renovando cada dieciocho meses ellos les están este dando esos papeles ese permiso de trabajo todavía a los nicaragüenses y a los hondureños.
JB: ¿Este programa existe hoy en día?
EB: Existe hoy en día desde 1998 hasta 2023.
JB: ¿Hubo un programa así para hondureños que fueron afectados por el huracán?
EB: Sí. Todos los que estaban acá adentro este ellos recibieron para que les pudieran ayudar allá los legalizaron o sea dándoles ese permiso para que ellos puedan obtener un trabajo mejor, licencia y todo eso. Este para que les ayudaran ahí a los familiares.
JB: ¿Y esto consiste en una visa para ellos quedarse aquí o y regresar o es una visa que ayuda para ellos obtener papeles y trabajar?
EB: No, solamente es para trabajar. Ya para poder viajar tiene que ser otra aplicación, pero sí este hace como cinco años creo ya ellos pudieron viajar, algunas personas, pero tenían que ir a hacer algo de emergencia allá al país, pero tenían tantos años de no ver a sus familiares entonces les obtuvieron como un permiso para poder salir y entrar. Entonces sí muchas personas se pudieron reunir con sus familiares.
JB: ¿Y usted tenía familia aquí cuando usted llegó de Honduras?
EB: Sí él ya mi esposo él estaba acá y él consiguió porque en el trayecto del huracán el
llegó acá a Estados Unidos y a él le dieron el permiso de trabajo comenzó el con eso entonces cuando yo vine acá por medio de él yo conseguí también y ya después entró otras leyes como las dos cuarenta y cinco I por medio de trabajo las personas que realmente necesitaban como jardineros, trabajos pesados, y mi esposo calificó para eso. Entonces dieron como un paquete familiar. Entonces allí venían todos los hijos podían recibir la residencia y la esposa en el paquete todo completo.
JB: ¿Y procedimiento fue largo o fue rápido?
EB: Sí, fue largo. Ya cuatro años.
JB: ¿Y fue caro?
EB: Sí. Porque con los abogados hoy en día es más fácil pero antes con se trataba la tecnología muy despacio y uno para conseguir pruebas, poderlas enviar. Si la prueba no estaba legal como ellos querían, otro procedimiento y entonces muchas veces tuvimos que algunas aplicaciones se cancelaban. Entonces tuvimos que volver a pagar.
JB: ¿Y volver a aplicar?
EB: Y volver aplicar, correcto.
JB: Entonces volviendo a aplicar. ¿Esto colocó más tiempo, verdad? Entonces el total de los--usted dijo que cuatro años--el total de toda su aplicación, incluyendo el tiempo de que se tuvo que volver a comenzar su aplicación, por cuatro años.
EB: Sí.
JB: Sí. Bueno. ¿Y está al tanto del aumento de la migración de Honduras después del huracán Mitch María o Irma?
EB: No ha habido otra ayuda solo eso del para así de migración que han legalizado solamente eso no ha habido otra ayuda de migración.
JB: ¿Y hubo alguien más en su familia fue afectado acaso de huracán?
EB: Si más la familia de mi esposo porque ellos vivían en una parte donde el mar está cerca entonces digamos Ceiba Colón todas esas áreas como que hay muchos ríos, lagunas y todo eso se quedó allí completamente como un mar, como arena, todo. Entonces y las personas allí sufrieron mucha. Yo conocí a personas que habían perdido todo y cantaban la canción hasta música hicieron y cuando yo fui en diciembre a visitarlo como en tres días pudimos lograr llegar porque los puentes se habían caído por la lluvia entonces estaban los buses de un lugar los trasportaba. Ya nosotros teníamos que con las maletas, la hoja de equipaje, todo caminar con ellos y pasar allí por lo abajo casi por el agua y no sé cómo ellos sabían inventados pero que no podíamos caminando nosotros para poder pasar al otro lado y de allá el otro bus nos subíamos y íbamos y cuando yo iba con una cuñada y ella los niños los había dejado con la suegra y entonces cuando lo llegó y los miró estaban tan delgaditos sin ropa y sin nada lo que habían conseguido que les habían donado con eso estaban. Sí habían sufrido los niños.
JB: ¿Y ellos se habían quedado atorados allí? ¿No podían salir?
EB:O sea ellos tuvieron bastante tiempo. para que ellos se recuperaran. Fue más lento porque no podían llevar cosas porque como había muchos puentes para poder allí solo por aire tal vez helicóptero o algo que podía aterrizar le costó más la ayuda para que llegara allí.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que había otra manera de que el gobierno pudiera ayudarlos ya que estaban tan lejos tal vez arreglando los puentes más rápido?
EB: Ajá o barca haciendo por agua como más ayuda que ellos deberían de estar preparados sí, pero no porque eso lo ni ellos se esperaban porque todo lo normal nunca quizás habían pasado ese problema que ellos que nosotros tuvimos.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que ora con el tiempo el gobierno se ha podido preparar más en caso de que venga otro huracán igual al Mitch?
EB: Sí, hoy sí porque la tecnología también está avanzada y las personas ya hoy se ve que como más limpia las calles y hay más seguridad ellos están más pendientes.
JB: Y usted mencionó de la historia de su cuñada y sus hijos. ¿Ellos perdieron su casa?
EB: Sí ellos perdieron todo.
JB: Y ¿Cuánto tiempo tomó para que ellos pudieran recibir ayuda del gobierno para que pudieran hacer su casa de nuevo?
EB: Porque yo fui eso fue en octubre, fui en diciembre, eran dos meses me imagino como un año.
JB: ¿Fue largo el proceso?
EB: Si.
JB: ¿Y durante ese tiempo a dónde se quedaron?
EB: Ellos volvieron a construir la casa cómo pudieron así la hicieron de tierra y yo dormí allí cuando fui en diciembre todavía no lo habían terminado y con miedo estábamos porque el aire entraba y todo y sí fue difícil.
JB: ¿Pero ya no estaba más el agua, la inundación que estaba antes?
EB: No ya no.
JB: ¿Porque podía haber destruido la casa de tierra? ¿Verdad?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Y en esa área el agua se fue solo el impacto y después se fue o fue que quedó allí permaneció el agua del huracán?
EB: El agua se fue.
JB: Se fue.
EB: Sí.
JB: Y ¿En cuáles áreas fue impactó más que usted en Honduras?
EB: Como en las costas digamos en él se están como ahí está el Atlantic y el Pacífico entonces todos esos departamentos que están cerca del mar del océano eso fue casi un tsunami porque todo iba arrastrando.
JB: ¿Entonces no fue solo un huracán, sino que digamos fue un tsunami de todo?
EB: Sí todo eso porque se unió allí a se miraba allí en las noticias que las personas andaban con sus cadáveres, decían que no tenían dinero ni para poderlos enterrar a sus hijos que querían ayudas, iban a lugares a donde estaban ayudando, que por favor les ayudaran para que algunas personas se aprovechaban porque agarraban tal vez algún muerto tal vez no era ni familia de ellos, algún niño y decía “mire quería darle sepultura hijo, por favor, no me pueden dar dinero”. Tal vez ni era ni para eso, sino que para ellos el dinero.
JB: ¿Y esto ocurría todos los bastante durante tiempo, era como un scam? ¿No?
EB: Sí, porque como quién iba a poder tanta información si nadie tenía información.
JB: Y no había tecnología.
EB: Ni los nombres ni nada a los familiares.
JB: ¿Y entonces ellos preguntaba a la comunidad o preguntaban al gobierno por ayuda?
EB: Al gobierno.
JB: ¿Y el gobierno se les ayudaba?
EB: Sí les ayudaba porque ya como era una cadena ya las personas ya sabían de cómo obtener dinero me imagino.
JB: ¿Entonces podían reclamar solo una vez por persona o será que podían reclamar varios por mismo muerto digamos?
EB: Si me imaginó que por el mismo muerto pedían muchas personas porque ni sabían.
JB: ¿Usted sabe del procedimiento que ocurría para poder pedir el dinero del gobierno?
EB: No. Solo en las noticias que yo miraba.
EB: ¿Y nadie en su familia falleció a causa de este huracán?
JB: No, gracias a Dios. Solo pérdidas fueron, pero ya así no. Porque todos los animales que se tenían, todos esos se perdieron como las gallinas, las vacas, los cerdos, todos se ahogaron, más si estaban encerrados.
JB: ¿Sobrevivieron muy pocos o sobrevivieron casi nada?
EB: Casi nada.
JB: Y cuando usted estaba en el albergue cuando vino la catástrofe--. ¿O dónde estaba, en el momento donde el huracán tocó?
EB: En el momento que el huracán sí ya estaba ya en un lugar, en una casa donde estaba alto.
JB: ¿Escuchaba el viento y la tormenta?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Había ventanas?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Podía ver entonces qué es lo que estaba ocurriendo?
EB: Sí. Porque duró la tormenta casi una semana. Día y noche.
JB: Una semana. ¿Y estaban allí encerrados por una semana?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Tenían comida?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Solo enlatada?
EB: No, sí tenían comida.
JB: Y ¿Había personas que cocinaban o entre ustedes se ayudaban?
EB: Entre nosotros.
JB: ¿Y cada persona o cada familia cocinaba para sí sola o hacían una gran comida?
EB: Cada quien hacia su comida.
JB: Okay y más sobre su tiempo allí en el albergue. ¿Fue difícil encontrar, digamos paz, en esos momentos o estaban todavía en shock no sabían que es lo que estaba pasando allá afuera?
EB: Aha no sabíamos lo que estaba pasando. No teníamos la idea de que tan desastre era, solo mirar las noticias ajá y las personas que estaban aquí, llamaban, preguntaban.
JB: ¿Pero aún tenían acceso a ver televisión, no se había ido ni la antena, la comunicación aún estaba?
EB: Sí, ya como a la semana que se miraba que ya había regresado la luz y el cable y todo eso ya, sí, ya se miraba.
JB: ¿Pero cuando ustedes estaban encerrados tenían acceso a la tele?
EB: No, solo la radio.
JB: La radio. ¿Y no, no tenían acceso al teléfono, tampoco?
EB: No, tampoco.
JB: ¿Y cómo se comunicaban para afuera?
EB: No, solo estar viendo allí la lluvia y escuchar.
JB: ¿Y en la radio anunciaban a dónde iba, por dónde iba el huracán o nomás anunciaban las muertes o?
EB: Algunos periodistas exageraban, ya la gente ya ni quería escuchar tanta noticia porque algunas eran falsas decían y algo traen verdadera no se sabía que lo que realmente estaba sucediendo.
JB: ¿Y exageraban en los números de muertes o de cómo era el huracán?
EB: Sí.
JB: Okay. ¿Cómo se comunicó con su familia? ¿Cómo ellos sabían que eso estaba bien?
EB: Ya como cuando comenzaron ya las radios a abrir y entonces ya allí se empezó uno a llamar a decirle que todo estaba bien.
JB: ¿Y tenían que llamar a una radio especifica donde estaba su familia como algún departamento o era una radio de todo Honduras?
EB: Si una radio donde se escucha en todo en todo Honduras.
JB: ¿Y el anuncio de qué consistía?
EB: No, o sea uno llamaba, le avisaba a la familia que todo estaba bien.
JB: ¿Entonces no era a través de la radio, era nomás llamada normal?
EB: Si ya llamada normal.
JB: ¿Entonces usted se pudo contactar con su mamá y su otra familia?
EB: Si ya como en noviembre ella como al mes.
JB: ¿Tomó entonces un mes para poder saber si había si todo estaba bien?
EB: Si porque como eso costaba para poder viajar porque todos los puentes las conexiones eso estaban, no había transporte.
JB: ¿Y cuándo logró volver a ver a su familia?
EB: Ya como en enero.
JB: Entonces tomaron casi tres meses para poder verlos de nuevo.
EB: Si.
JB: ¿Y ya para enero la transportación estaba más rápida o aún estaba en desarrollo?
EB: Sí estaba despacio. Porque por algunos lugares no todavía no podían al otro lado no se esperaba.
JB: Y antes del huracán ¿Cuánto tiempo se tomaba para llegar a donde a la casa de su mamá?
EB: Me tardaba como una hora.
JB: ¿Y ya después del huracán?
EB: Si casi cinco horas, seis horas.
JB: ¿Y usted fue por largo tiempo a visitar su mamá o fue por poco tiempo en enero?
EB: Poco tiempo.
JB: Poco tiempo. ¿Y en ese poco tiempo usted pudo hablar con su mamá para ver cómo fueron los efectos allí donde ella estuvo?
EB: Sí. A ella no casi no porque vivía en lo alto. Casi no fue afectada.
JB: ¿No hubo daño entonces?
EB: No solo los ajá los animales que tenían algo lo había perdido y si la comida costaba que llegara todavía.
JB: ¿Y las casas estaban bien allí en el área de donde estaba su mamá?
EB: Sí, alguna, alguna parte sí sé se había rajado las paredes porque da mucha agua. Y, pero no nos--. No, casi cosas solo materiales, pero no vidas que se habían perdido.
JB: ¿No había inundaciones allí?
EB: No.
JB: ¿Adónde? ¿Estaba cerca su mamá en un departamento cerca del suyo o estaba un poquito más lejitos?
EB: Más lejitos.
JB: Okay. ¿Y allí donde estaba su mamá entonces usted dice que no hago ni un daño o no, el daño fue mínimo en comparación?
EB: Mínimo porque yo estaba en San Pedro Sula en Choloma, era la López allí sí, sí fue fuerte.
JB: ¿Y su esposo usted dice que tuvo que migrar a los Estados Unidos esto fue a causa del huracán o fue ya de su propio porque él quiso?
EB: Sí porque él quiso y también al ver que allí no había futuro.
JB: Y, perdón, en ese mes que ustedes estuvieron arreglando su casa. ¿fueron los dos trabajando a trayendo el dinero para poder pagar o fue uno más que el otro?
EB: Entre los dos trabajando porque yo en día comencé a trabajar en la maquila ya normal y el que comenzó a trabajar acá en Estados Unidos claro el dinero de él era se multiplicaba más.
JB: ¿Entonces usted miró ese cambio financiero cuando su esposo se vino para Estados Unidos?
EB: Si ya era diferente.
JB: Ya fue más fácil.
EB: Si más fácil la vida.
JB: ¿Y cuánto tiempo usted quedó allá en Honduras sola después que su marido se vino?
EB: Un año.
JB: Un año. ¿Y en año al cómo fueron los factores de él, lo que uno le llama post Hurricane--después del huracán? ¿Cómo fue esa vida, como se compara a la vida antes del huracán?
EB: Todas las personas solo hablaban de eso y tragedias que ese año como que como algunos perdieron sus familiares, algunos que habían perdido las casas y todo y habían quedado completamente sin nada. Esas personas cuando comenzaban a hablar uno les preguntaba empezaban a llorar. Se les miraba la tristeza que tenían en sus caras, en su rostro. El sufrimiento que ellos habían pasado.
JB: Y entonces digamos que Honduras estuvo de luto ¿Cuánto tiempo se cree que esto ocurrió?
EB: Mucho tiempo. Yo creo que hasta la vez las personas que estuvieron en ese momento y que perdieron sus familiares, sus cosas todavía. Se les quedó eso, nunca lo olvidan.
JB: ¿Usted estaba joven en este tiempo?
EB: Sí.
JB: Y ¿Cómo esta experiencia afectaría la vida de un niño?
EB: Porque las escuelas todo cerrado cuando se llegó--ellos estaban de vacaciones cuando se llegó--que ya tenían que regresar las escuelas estaban ocupadas por personas eso difícil para ellos porque la rutina y todo eso que ellos tenían, todo se atrasó.
JB: ¿Y usted no tenía niños en este momento?
EB: No. Estaba embarazada.
JB: ¿Y ya cuando tuvo su hijo fue allá en Honduras o aquí en los Estados Unidos?
EB: Allá en Honduras.
JB: ¿Cómo fue su experiencia o cómo cree usted que esa experiencia hubiera sido diferente si hubiera ocurrido antes del huracán?
EB: Hubiera sido mejor.
JB: ¿Y porque dice que hubiera sido mejor?
EB: Porque tanto ver personas sufridas y yo debía tener cuidado porque estaba empezando a salir estaban mis primeros meses para caminar para andar en lugares debía tener mucho cuidado y más las bacterias y todo que las enfermedades después vinieron pestes que las personas se enfermaban de tantas bacterias que habían quedado.
JB: ¿Y usted tenía cuidado en un hospital o una clínica durante ese tiempo cuando estaba embarazada?
EB: Si una clínica tenía de allí mismo del trabajo ellos me daban las clínicas los doctores que me estaban chequeando.
JB: ¿Y las clínicas estaban llenas de personas que se habían golpeado o que se habían o que habían tenido un accidente durante el huracán o ya casi ya había bajado cuando usted se embarazo?
EB: Sí, ya había ya había bajado.
JB: ¿Usted cree que el cuidado de la clínica hubiese sido diferente si hubiera ocurrido antes del huracán?
EB: Sí, claro, porque no estaban pendientes en tantas personas. Hasta los doctores porque allí fue allí el problema fue para todos allí, pobres, ricos y estudiados, no graduados para todo fue igual el impacto.
JB: Todos quedaron.
EB: Si todos quedó esa huella acá digamos.
JB: Y ahora reflexionando de evento ¿Qué cree que hubiera sido mejores formas del gobierno haber ayudado? Usted mencionó que ellos daban comida, daban casa, pero ¿Cuáles fueron cuáles son otras cosas que usted piensa que el gobierno pudo haber hecho?
EB: O sea dar medicina para las personas que realmente necesitaban y ayudar más y estar preparados. Por el desastre. O sea que ellos no estaban ni preparados, no tenían una agenda. “Mire si aquí viene un desastre en cuanto tiempo no podemos recuperar” nada de eso.
JB: Y usted mencionó que había unas que se aprovecharon y miraron a los muertos y decían que era su hijo y necesitaban del gobierno. ¿Cómo cree que el gobierno pudo haber facilitado este programa para que las personas recibieran lo que no era de ellos?
EB: Sí, llevar una contabilidad mejor que hubieran chequeado todo digamos la información, pero me imagino las personas sabían hacerlo como hoy en día tal vez existe lo mismo que hay personas que siempre quieren hacerse pasar o usando otras cosas que no son ni de ellos como robando e identidades.
JB: ¿Y el procedimiento de las personas en ese tiempo todo era papel, en papel?
EB: Sí, todo me daba en papel.
JB: Entonces también me imagino que tal vez había unos papeles también que se fueron afectados con el huracán, se destruyeron y todo eso.
EB: Sí. Muchas personas. Todavía creo están algunos que no han podido ni arreglar sus problemas con los papeles porque como allí todo se perdió. No estaba todo computarizado.
JB: Si el huracán fuese a pasar hoy en este año 2023 en vez de 1998, ¿cuáles cree usted que fueran unas de las diferencias?
EB: Si hoy la tecnología, como le repito--. Después ellos vinieron, ya dieron como un carné, era la cédula un ID eso ya venía, nos tomaron fotografías y ya las huellas ya fue diferente. Porque hoy los podemos están todos en computadora. Cuando ya vamos a cualquier lugar. Aquí hay embajadas en Estados Unidos. Uno va y nos enseña las fotografías de allí “mira ve esta fue su primera vez que fue a solicitar sus documentos” ya nos dieron un ID ya diferente ya todo ya podían saber quién era la persona o pueden saber quién es con las huellas, la fotografía y todo ya nos conectan mejor.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que gobierno pudo o pudiera ayudar más y hubiera ocurrido en 2023 o hubiera sido casi lo mismo?
EB: Si hubiera podido ayudar más. Si como ya como más organizado. Como allí también entre los políticos, todos sus familiares, sus las ayudas iban a quienes sus conocidos algunas personas aprovecharon tal vez ellos ni tenían las utilidades y dijeron se perdió aquí la electricidad por favor vengan a arreglar vengan a ponerlo acá y como no llevaba una contabilidad ellos ni sabían y recibieron mucha ayuda.
JB: ¿Entonces usted cree que los políticos recibieron mayoría de la ayuda durante tiempo?
EB: Sí porque me podía ver allí porque yo recuerdo que a mi mamá le fueron a decir allí conoce usted algunas personas a las que perdieron aquí las casas y todo denos la lista entonces mi mami las amistades de ella entonces dijo les llevo toda la información y les dijo aquí van a ver vamos a hacer aquí una colonia y en lugar y yo los puse allá sus nombres y porque a mi mamá la conocían ya ella tenía más amistades con los políticos porque ella trabajaba en la política. Entonces tenía como conexiones. Entonces ellos le dijeron a mi mamá tráiganme todas esas personas que realmente necesitan. Entonces mi mami allí conocidos y de todo los llevo y les ayudó.
JB: ¿Y ella pudo ayudar también personas fuera de su departamento, fuera de su ciudad?
EB: No, solo los que estaban allí en la ciudad.
JB: A los conocidos.
EB: A los conocidos.
JB: ¿Y ella pudo haber ayudado a usted o no estaba muy lejos?
EB: Sí, ella me dijo que me podía ayudar, pero tenía que permanecer allí y yo vivía en otro lugar, o sea, la ayuda que yo tenía que recibir tenía que hacer allá donde yo estaba viviendo. Porque me tenía que mudar allí porque ellos tenían que pagar a una persona o yo para poder construir la casa de nuevo.
JB: ¿Y la ayuda que estaban brindando allí donde su abuela estaba inscribiendo las personas era inmediata o era ayuda prometida allá en el futuro?
EB: Prometida en el futuro porque fue Irlanda quien envió esa ayuda para poder construir allí en ese país entonces ellos fueron y así se llama también en la colonia Irlanda le pusieron porque mi tía allí ella consiguió casa y tuvo que trabajar bastante tiempo y hasta que terminaron completamente toda la colonia hicieron todas las cosas ya vinieron ellos y les dijeron okay esta es su casa y así les fueron entregando a todas las personas pero que las personas que terminaron el proceso desde que comenzaron hasta que terminaron y algunas personas solo empezaron y ya nos siguieron.
JB: El procedimiento fue largo ¿De qué consistía?
EB: De ir a trabajar. Desde las personas, las mujeres cocinaban para los hombres que iban a trabajar, las que no podían y mujeres que podían trabajar iban a trabajar allí alcanzar las herramientas para que pudieran o sacar tierra para poder construir las casas.
JB: ¿Entonces el trabajo consistía en construir la casa la casa donde ellos iban a vivir o donde iba era una colonia?
EB: Era una colonia o sea construyeron todita la colonia todas las casas para todos y todos unidos digamos.
JB: ¿Y entonces las casas no fueron distribuidas hasta que se completaron todas o iban dando las tras iban completándose cada casa?
EB: Hasta que ya se terminaron todos las pues yo creo la rifaron o allí hubo también personas que dijeron porque por conocido como siempre tenían conexión a personas les dieron los mejores lugares.
JB: ¿Y se aseguraron las personas de que bueno se aseguraron de que las personas habían trabajado todo ese tiempo o vamos a decir si el procedimiento ya estaba por terminar se podía unir cualquier persona para decir oh yo vengo aquí a ayudar y quiero una casa?
EB: No, tenían que digamos así unas personas que ya eran de que no tenían cómo ellas trabajar, ya no podían, eran de sesenta años, setenta años, las abuelas digamos, ellas pagaban a una persona u otra persona los pudiera suplir, pero sí se llevaban él no lo podían si decía yo quiero y voy a liberarme aquí no ya no podía porque eso es desde el comienzo.
JB: ¿Y las personas viejas que mandaban a alguien a suplirlos tenía firmado algún documento o era nomás por palabra?
EB: No un documento allí llevaba allí tenían un comité entonces allí iban chequeando todas las personas con presidente, vicepresidente, todos esos tenían allí el control de la persona y las firma de quienes habían trabajado hoy al principio ellos no podían vender como que tenían alguna póliza me imagino que ellos dijeron no porque hasta que haiga nosotros algunos cinco o diez años después y ya las personas comenzaron a vender sus propiedades.
JB: ¿Entonces ellos habían firmado un contrato que decía que no podían vender sus casas hasta que pasara estos esta cantidad de años?
EB: Sí me imagino que sí porque no nadie podía vender ni cambiar ni nada. Todo donde les habían prometido allí donde les habían asignado allí tenían que quedarse.
JB: ¿Y el gobierno invirtió en las escuelas después de del huracán ya que allí fue un albergue o un lugar donde las personas fueron a vivir mientras estaban construyendo su casa de nuevo?
EB: Sí enviaron ayudas porque sí construyeron las y cuidaron las escuelas para mí es una comunidad también. Entre ellos comenzaron a limpiar, a preparar.
JB: ¿Y usted miró algún aumento en las escuelas, las construcciones de las escuelas o usted piensa que quedaron casi igual?
EB: Casi igual.
JB: Y como bueno usted mencionó que bastantes niños tuvieron quedarse fuera de la escuela a causa del huracán y porque también las personas estaban viviendo allí. ¿Cómo cree que esto afectó su educación?
EB: Si afectó bastante porque lo que tenían que aprender no lo aprendieron y ya digamos las personas no fueron preparadas como deberían de ser.
JB: ¿y perdieron el año o tuvieron que resumir después?
EB: Sí, resumir después. Ósea, dar los fines de semana, lo que podían.
JB: Y ellos comenzaron mucho más, bueno, ¿Cuántos meses cree usted que duró para que todo fuera de nuevo?
EB: Yo creo que como dos años.
JB: Dos años.
EB: Si algunos lugares costo porque allí donde vivía la tía de mi esposo esa escuela todavía no podía porque no tenían las personas donde las que estaban allí viviendo no tenían a donde irse todavía ya costo bastante.
JB: ¿Y si vamos a decir que había un estudiante que estaba por graduarse del sexto grado tuvo que esperar casi dos años para poder graduarse digamos?
EB: No sé realmente qué fue lo que pasó allí porque como yo no estudiaba y tal vez mi mamá se sabe que como ella mis hermanos iban a la escuela.
JB: Sí, está bien, no se preocupe. Y bueno ya casi vamos a al final, pero quiero hacerle una pregunta más. ¿Usted cree que hay otras formas en que los Estados Unidos pudo haberse involucrado en ayuda de bueno para ayudar a Honduras en estos en esos momentos difíciles?
EB: Me imagino que si Estados Unidos envió mucho mucha ayuda pero sí como todavía no se podía digamos no había tanta tecnología y las ayudas a saber en que las invirtieron nunca se supo si realmente llegó a la comunidad que necesitaba como le digo allí donde esos lugares donde vivía así como la familia de mi esposo allí costó dos años o más tiempo para que pudieran volver a abrir escuelas, colegios y todo eso fue porque la ayuda eso costó que llegar a esos lugares remotos digamos donde no podían ni tener alguna conexión poder chequear que en realidad necesitaban esa ayuda.
JB: Y los Estados Unidos es conocido por enviar comida y ropa. ¿Cree usted que con lo que ellos mandaron fue casi lo mismo? Como usted mencionó que los políticos tuvieron la oportunidad de agarrar lo mejor… ¿Cree usted que los políticos en este momento pudieron recibir mayoría de la comida que los Estados Unidos estaban enviando y la y la ropa?
EB: Sí, me imagino que sí, que como a sus colegas eran los primeros como a sus conocidos.
JB: Sí.
EB: Que la ayuda iba para ellos.
JB: ¿Y la radio, en la radio no mencionaban nada de ayudas de los Estados Unidos?
EB: Sí mencionaba las noticias, pero como también en la ya no se creía tanto en noticia. Porque decían por allá algún lugar están ayudando están dando y las personas iban a veces ni lo lograban.
JB: ¿Entonces no era mucha la ayuda o a veces no existía?
EB: Ajá sí, inventaba. Pero sí, bastantes países se unieron. Sí ayudaban.
JB: Sí. Bueno, muchas gracias por permitirme entrevistarla.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcriber: Johana Bautista-Ayala
Interview Date: April 18, 2023
Date of Transcription: April 19, 2023
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:03] Johana Bautista: Hola, mi nombre es Johana Bautista, soy estudiante de la
Universidad de Chapel Hill en North Carolina y hoy tengo el gusto de entrevistar a Elsi Bautista. Hola Elsi, ¿Me puedes contar un poquito sobre tu historia de migración?
[00:00:19] Elsi Bautista: Sí, hace como veinte, veintitrés años yo llegué al país. Vine, conseguí una visa para México y de México para acá. Llegué en avión, pero sí me tardé como tres meses para hacer el proceso porque no fue tan fácil para entrar aquí a este país.
JB: Y el procedimiento para poder recibir una visa para ir a México, ¿fue largo y difícil o de qué consistía?
EB: Sí, teníamos que conseguir muchos papeles para pagar abogados y tener conexiones para que ellos pudieran ayudarnos y el proceso fuera más rápido.
JB: ¿Y fue caro me imagino?
EB: Sí. Mucho dinero.
JB: ¿Y cómo pudo obtener todo ese dinero para poder?
EB: Yo trabajaba en una fábrica de maquilas y ya mi esposo, él ya ha tenido un año que él estaba acá y él me ayudaba con el dinero.
JB: ¿Y qué año fue que se vino su esposo?
EB: Él se vino en 1999 y yo me vine en el 2000.
JB: Y ya me imagino que ustedes saben sobre lo que ocurrió en Honduras y en Centroamérica con huracán Mitch, que ocurrió en 1998. Le quiero preguntar específicamente a este evento. ¿Qué se acuerda usted del huracán Mitch?
EB: Yo no miraba ni las noticias, yo me levanté como un día normal, fui al trabajo, cuando yo llegué todas las personas estaban en huelga porque dijeron no vamos a trabajar porque todo esto aquí está en lo bajo y se va a inundar y tenemos que regresarnos para nuestras casas. Entonces cuando ya regresamos a las casas ya no había ni transportación, me costó llegar a la casa y no pude ni entrar donde yo tenía las cosas. Todavía estaba mi esposo y él fue a poner las camas en lo alto en unas mesas para que no se mojaran y nos fuimos para conseguir albergue en otros lugares donde era más seguro y allí estuvimos y siempre el agua entraba y eso fue muy difícil porque ya se aproximaba. Fue en octubre entonces en los trabajos eso fue muy difícil sin dinero y en las noticias se miraban tanta cosa sobre las personas. Los niños y los cadáveres se miraban nadando. Y también exageraban las noticias tal vez o si sucedió eso porque se llenó completamente y nadie estaba preparado para eso.
JB: Y tú mencionaste de la huelga que ocurrió. ¿Este día fue esta huelga comenzó mucho antes que viniera el huracán en preparación, u ocurrió el mismo día que el huracán tocó suelo?
EB: El mismo día que el huracán porque fue un domingo, el lunes por la mañana nosotros nos presentamos a trabajar. Entonces ya fue el lunes que ya comenzaba y ya se estaba llenando de agua porque toda la noche comenzó a la lluvia y parte del domingo y ya estaba el lunes fuerte entonces ya desde allí comenzó.
JB: ¿Y su casa estaba cerca de estas maquilas o estaba lejos?
EB: Yo estaba como a trece millas.
JB: ¿Cómo cuánto minutos?
EB: Sí, media hora.
JB: Media hora normalmente y ya como usted mencionó que la transportación estuvo bien difícil este día. ¿Cuánto tiempo le tocó esperar para poder llegar a su casa?
EB: Sí, había taxistas, porque eran más directos y costó, me imagino como unos cien lempiras.
JB: ¿Pero y de tiempo ¿Cuánto fue?
EB: Como hora y media.
JB: Wow, okay. Bueno muchas gracias por compartir su día enfrentando el huracán y usted menciono de los albergues que habían en preparación para cuidar de las personas. ¿Esto era para toda la comunidad o solo era para las personas que trabajaban en las maquilas?
EB: Si para toda la comunidad porque la lluvia era tan fuerte que se llevaba a las casas y entonces las escuelas las necesitaron para eso colegios todos los lugares así hospitales, pero casi todo estaba colapsado porque la mayoría de personas vivían en lo bajo y no estaban completamente ellos no nunca había pasado un desastre tan horroroso como eso.
JB: ¿Y fue el gobierno que dijo que todos se fueran para estas escuelas o fue la misma comunidad que dijo “vámonos todos para las escuelas?”
EB: Sí fue el gobierno que dijo de que como eso las escuelas y todo eso eran del gobierno y así todas las personas ayudando una con otra.
JB: Sí. Bueno me imagino que usted sabe de los dos huracanes que ha ocurrido como huracán Irma y también el huracán María que afectó a mucho de Centroamérica y también Puerto Rico. Yo digo eso porque cuando pasó estos eventos siempre hay un caos qué pasa que la gente comienza a alocarse, no hay comida y no hay muchos materiales. Le quiero preguntar específicamente con Huracán Mitch cuando esto ocurrió en Honduras. ¿Cómo estaban todas las cosas en las tiendas? Me imagino que fue difícil encontrar comida o aún estaba en la etapa que había todavía comida.
EB: Sí, había porque nadie creía, nadie pensó que eso iba a ser fuerte porque las personas que jugaban fútbol estaban ese domingo haciendo todas las actividades, todo era normal. El problema fue ya en la noche cuando comenzó el agua, pero fuerte, que ya se empezaron a tapar todos los lugares los desagües, las mangueras de agua, porque había mucha basura en las calles, y en nada de preparación.
JB: ¿Había ocurrido un huracán antes de esta fecha?
EB: No, que yo sepa no, él fue el primero que yo pasé.
JB: Sí. Y después ¿Cuánto tiempo estuvo usted ahí en el albergue, esperando el huracán pasar?
EB: Como un mes.
JB: ¿Y su casa o su hogar como quedó después del huracán?
EB: Cuando yo llegué todavía el agua estaba por la por la mesa y ya todas las cosas que habíamos puesto así arriba no estaban tan mojadas. Pero paredes y todas las cosas los trastes todo eso andaba nadando todavía. Ahí tenemos que tener cuidado porque era el agua se miraba sucia. Entonces no si uno para caminar se podía meter en algún hoyo, algún vidrio, alguna cosa, eso era terrible.
JB: ¿Y lograron salvar la mayoría de sus cosas o todo estaba mojado?
EB: Sí algunas cosas se salvaron las que no perjudicaban el agua. Pero la mayoría de las cosas si se perdieron.
JB: ¿Y tuvieron que ir a comprar cosas nuevas después, me imagino?
EB: Si trabajar para comprarla eso costó.
JB: ¿Y sus amigos también enfrentaron situaciones iguales a la suya o fue completamente diferentes?
EB: Algotras completamente diferente porque ellos perdieron la casa y se quedaron completamente sin nada y lo que tenían era solamente que les ayudaban para que ellos pasaran en las escuelas. Llegó como en febrero, ellos comienzan a abrir las clases los maestros y todavía eso estaba lleno de personas que no tenían casa, no tenían nada. Ahí vivían completamente.
JB: ¿Y qué decían los maestros con las personas viviendo ahí?
EB: Tuvieron que suspender clases porque no había ni internet ni nada, sino que todo eso se atrasó.
JB: ¿Y qué pasó con la electricidad, se fue completamente durante el huracán?
EB: Sí, mucho tiempo se fue la electricidad, no había nada y me recuerdo cuando ya casi estaba pasando el huracán. Vino el—no el gobernador—o el alcalde de Tegucigalpa, que es la capital de Honduras, fue dijo voy a ir a revisar cómo se ve, el cómo ha quedado Honduras, y empezó a pilotear con yo creo el acompañante el helicóptero, y a las pocas horas se derribó, murió él.
JB: ¿Murió el alcalde?
EB: Si fue más triste. Después que estaba completamente el país con problemas ya el alcalde había perdido la vida.
JB: Y me imagino que esto llegó a todas las noticias, no solo de Honduras, sino que también afuera. ¿Cree usted que esto colocó más ayuda para Honduras o afectó las noticias enteramente?
EB: No sé yo, como pasaría eso sí pero sí se recibió de otros países apoyaron porque ellos mandaron a hacer casas, programas, así para las personas que ellas pudieran ir a trabajar porque no había dinero, sino que con trabajo ellos podían ayudar para ir haciendo las colonias, las casas y entregarles a las personas que completamente no tenían habían quedado sin nada. Pero eso duró como dos años para que las casas las terminaran porque ellos mismos se terminaban. La trabajaban para terminarla.
JB: Y usted mencionó que en su casa--. Bueno en su casa no más tenía daño de agua. ¿Hace cuánto tiempo tomó para poder recuperar todas las cosas? ¿Volver a colocar todo de nuevo como estaba? ¿Arreglar las paredes?
EB: Sí, como un mes.
JB: En un mes pudieron.
EB: Recuerdo todavía lo que usamos para limpiar olores así para limpiar el piso, las paredes, después no podíamos ni olerlo porque nos recordaba mucho.
JB: ¿Eso era un olor fuerte?
EB: Ajá un olor fuerte porque era para desinfectarse aún las paredes y todo eso y sí sentíamos este nos recordaba [laughs] y si, sentíamos el olor ese que nos recordaba el huracán.
JB: ¿Y cómo sacaron el agua del de la casa?
EB: Ya fue bajando, este--. Empezaron a limpiar las cunetas ellas le llaman ahí este a limpiarla, a quitarles la basura y ya un poco fue a saliendo el agua.
JB: ¿Y tuvieron que botar algunas cosas, me imagino?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿La ropa?
EB: Sí, todo lo que estaba mojado, lo que quedó completamente perdido.
JB: ¿Y usted mencionó que su esposo colocó la cama más alta, la cama se pudo salvar o tampoco?
EB: Sí, se salvó porque la parte de abajo sí eso sí estaba mojado. Pero se la pusimos al sol y así.
JB: ¿Y el colchón quedó mojado o?
EB: No, solo se secó.
JB: ¿Solo fue la base entonces?
EB: Si.
JB: Y había otro ¿Cómo se dice? Furniture que quedó dañado?
EB: Sí las mesas, trastes todo.
JB: Todo quedó. ¿Y eso tuvieron que reponerlo ustedes de su propio dinero?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿No hubo ni una ayuda del gobierno?
EB: No, ellos lo que ayudaban era más con comida.
JB: ¿Y también con las casas?
EB: Sí, porque ahí en el trabajo cuando ya nosotros regresamos, ellos sí nos ayudaban. Y nos daban provisiones, cajas con materiales para que ya pudiéramos cocinar. Cosas enlatadas me imagino que otros países habían enviado para que nos dieran.
JB: Y en su trabajo. ¿Cómo les ayudaron, les dieron tiempo libre para poder?
EB: Si dieron las personas que completamente habían perdido todo para que se volvieran a nivelar si les dieron tiempo libre.
JB: ¿Y les dieron algún bono para ayudarles?
EB: Sí les dieron bono.
JB: Sí. Bueno, me alegro de que les pudieron ayudar. Ahora le quiero preguntar si ahora que está en los Estados Unidos, ¿usted ha notado algún aumento a lo largo de los años en la migración, a causa de los factores ambientales?
EB: ¿Cómo? No lo entiendo, ¿qué ambientales cómo?
JB: Como huracanes, tornados o también diferentes factores como está muy caliente o como países que están bien cerca lo que se llama el equator a veces son muy calientes para eso entonces ellos tienen que salir de esos lugares. También son factores que causan que vengan y salgan de su país. Viviendo aquí en North Carolina, los Estados Unidos, ¿Cómo ha visto usted tal vez a sus amigos en el trabajo? Que las familias han venido a causa de estos factores.
EB: Sí, aquí incluso dieron papeles. Todavía hay personas que están este un permiso de trabajo para que ellos pudieran trabajar desde ese tiempo todavía ellos los están renovando cada dieciocho meses ellos les están este dando esos papeles ese permiso de trabajo todavía a los nicaragüenses y a los hondureños.
JB: ¿Este programa existe hoy en día?
EB: Existe hoy en día desde 1998 hasta 2023.
JB: ¿Hubo un programa así para hondureños que fueron afectados por el huracán?
EB: Sí. Todos los que estaban acá adentro este ellos recibieron para que les pudieran ayudar allá los legalizaron o sea dándoles ese permiso para que ellos puedan obtener un trabajo mejor, licencia y todo eso. Este para que les ayudaran ahí a los familiares.
JB: ¿Y esto consiste en una visa para ellos quedarse aquí o y regresar o es una visa que ayuda para ellos obtener papeles y trabajar?
EB: No, solamente es para trabajar. Ya para poder viajar tiene que ser otra aplicación, pero sí este hace como cinco años creo ya ellos pudieron viajar, algunas personas, pero tenían que ir a hacer algo de emergencia allá al país, pero tenían tantos años de no ver a sus familiares entonces les obtuvieron como un permiso para poder salir y entrar. Entonces sí muchas personas se pudieron reunir con sus familiares.
JB: ¿Y usted tenía familia aquí cuando usted llegó de Honduras?
EB: Sí él ya mi esposo él estaba acá y él consiguió porque en el trayecto del huracán el
llegó acá a Estados Unidos y a él le dieron el permiso de trabajo comenzó el con eso entonces cuando yo vine acá por medio de él yo conseguí también y ya después entró otras leyes como las dos cuarenta y cinco I por medio de trabajo las personas que realmente necesitaban como jardineros, trabajos pesados, y mi esposo calificó para eso. Entonces dieron como un paquete familiar. Entonces allí venían todos los hijos podían recibir la residencia y la esposa en el paquete todo completo.
JB: ¿Y procedimiento fue largo o fue rápido?
EB: Sí, fue largo. Ya cuatro años.
JB: ¿Y fue caro?
EB: Sí. Porque con los abogados hoy en día es más fácil pero antes con se trataba la tecnología muy despacio y uno para conseguir pruebas, poderlas enviar. Si la prueba no estaba legal como ellos querían, otro procedimiento y entonces muchas veces tuvimos que algunas aplicaciones se cancelaban. Entonces tuvimos que volver a pagar.
JB: ¿Y volver a aplicar?
EB: Y volver aplicar, correcto.
JB: Entonces volviendo a aplicar. ¿Esto colocó más tiempo, verdad? Entonces el total de los--usted dijo que cuatro años--el total de toda su aplicación, incluyendo el tiempo de que se tuvo que volver a comenzar su aplicación, por cuatro años.
EB: Sí.
JB: Sí. Bueno. ¿Y está al tanto del aumento de la migración de Honduras después del huracán Mitch María o Irma?
EB: No ha habido otra ayuda solo eso del para así de migración que han legalizado solamente eso no ha habido otra ayuda de migración.
JB: ¿Y hubo alguien más en su familia fue afectado acaso de huracán?
EB: Si más la familia de mi esposo porque ellos vivían en una parte donde el mar está cerca entonces digamos Ceiba Colón todas esas áreas como que hay muchos ríos, lagunas y todo eso se quedó allí completamente como un mar, como arena, todo. Entonces y las personas allí sufrieron mucha. Yo conocí a personas que habían perdido todo y cantaban la canción hasta música hicieron y cuando yo fui en diciembre a visitarlo como en tres días pudimos lograr llegar porque los puentes se habían caído por la lluvia entonces estaban los buses de un lugar los trasportaba. Ya nosotros teníamos que con las maletas, la hoja de equipaje, todo caminar con ellos y pasar allí por lo abajo casi por el agua y no sé cómo ellos sabían inventados pero que no podíamos caminando nosotros para poder pasar al otro lado y de allá el otro bus nos subíamos y íbamos y cuando yo iba con una cuñada y ella los niños los había dejado con la suegra y entonces cuando lo llegó y los miró estaban tan delgaditos sin ropa y sin nada lo que habían conseguido que les habían donado con eso estaban. Sí habían sufrido los niños.
JB: ¿Y ellos se habían quedado atorados allí? ¿No podían salir?
EB:O sea ellos tuvieron bastante tiempo. para que ellos se recuperaran. Fue más lento porque no podían llevar cosas porque como había muchos puentes para poder allí solo por aire tal vez helicóptero o algo que podía aterrizar le costó más la ayuda para que llegara allí.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que había otra manera de que el gobierno pudiera ayudarlos ya que estaban tan lejos tal vez arreglando los puentes más rápido?
EB: Ajá o barca haciendo por agua como más ayuda que ellos deberían de estar preparados sí, pero no porque eso lo ni ellos se esperaban porque todo lo normal nunca quizás habían pasado ese problema que ellos que nosotros tuvimos.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que ora con el tiempo el gobierno se ha podido preparar más en caso de que venga otro huracán igual al Mitch?
EB: Sí, hoy sí porque la tecnología también está avanzada y las personas ya hoy se ve que como más limpia las calles y hay más seguridad ellos están más pendientes.
JB: Y usted mencionó de la historia de su cuñada y sus hijos. ¿Ellos perdieron su casa?
EB: Sí ellos perdieron todo.
JB: Y ¿Cuánto tiempo tomó para que ellos pudieran recibir ayuda del gobierno para que pudieran hacer su casa de nuevo?
EB: Porque yo fui eso fue en octubre, fui en diciembre, eran dos meses me imagino como un año.
JB: ¿Fue largo el proceso?
EB: Si.
JB: ¿Y durante ese tiempo a dónde se quedaron?
EB: Ellos volvieron a construir la casa cómo pudieron así la hicieron de tierra y yo dormí allí cuando fui en diciembre todavía no lo habían terminado y con miedo estábamos porque el aire entraba y todo y sí fue difícil.
JB: ¿Pero ya no estaba más el agua, la inundación que estaba antes?
EB: No ya no.
JB: ¿Porque podía haber destruido la casa de tierra? ¿Verdad?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Y en esa área el agua se fue solo el impacto y después se fue o fue que quedó allí permaneció el agua del huracán?
EB: El agua se fue.
JB: Se fue.
EB: Sí.
JB: Y ¿En cuáles áreas fue impactó más que usted en Honduras?
EB: Como en las costas digamos en él se están como ahí está el Atlantic y el Pacífico entonces todos esos departamentos que están cerca del mar del océano eso fue casi un tsunami porque todo iba arrastrando.
JB: ¿Entonces no fue solo un huracán, sino que digamos fue un tsunami de todo?
EB: Sí todo eso porque se unió allí a se miraba allí en las noticias que las personas andaban con sus cadáveres, decían que no tenían dinero ni para poderlos enterrar a sus hijos que querían ayudas, iban a lugares a donde estaban ayudando, que por favor les ayudaran para que algunas personas se aprovechaban porque agarraban tal vez algún muerto tal vez no era ni familia de ellos, algún niño y decía “mire quería darle sepultura hijo, por favor, no me pueden dar dinero”. Tal vez ni era ni para eso, sino que para ellos el dinero.
JB: ¿Y esto ocurría todos los bastante durante tiempo, era como un scam? ¿No?
EB: Sí, porque como quién iba a poder tanta información si nadie tenía información.
JB: Y no había tecnología.
EB: Ni los nombres ni nada a los familiares.
JB: ¿Y entonces ellos preguntaba a la comunidad o preguntaban al gobierno por ayuda?
EB: Al gobierno.
JB: ¿Y el gobierno se les ayudaba?
EB: Sí les ayudaba porque ya como era una cadena ya las personas ya sabían de cómo obtener dinero me imagino.
JB: ¿Entonces podían reclamar solo una vez por persona o será que podían reclamar varios por mismo muerto digamos?
EB: Si me imaginó que por el mismo muerto pedían muchas personas porque ni sabían.
JB: ¿Usted sabe del procedimiento que ocurría para poder pedir el dinero del gobierno?
EB: No. Solo en las noticias que yo miraba.
EB: ¿Y nadie en su familia falleció a causa de este huracán?
JB: No, gracias a Dios. Solo pérdidas fueron, pero ya así no. Porque todos los animales que se tenían, todos esos se perdieron como las gallinas, las vacas, los cerdos, todos se ahogaron, más si estaban encerrados.
JB: ¿Sobrevivieron muy pocos o sobrevivieron casi nada?
EB: Casi nada.
JB: Y cuando usted estaba en el albergue cuando vino la catástrofe--. ¿O dónde estaba, en el momento donde el huracán tocó?
EB: En el momento que el huracán sí ya estaba ya en un lugar, en una casa donde estaba alto.
JB: ¿Escuchaba el viento y la tormenta?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Había ventanas?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Podía ver entonces qué es lo que estaba ocurriendo?
EB: Sí. Porque duró la tormenta casi una semana. Día y noche.
JB: Una semana. ¿Y estaban allí encerrados por una semana?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Tenían comida?
EB: Sí.
JB: ¿Solo enlatada?
EB: No, sí tenían comida.
JB: Y ¿Había personas que cocinaban o entre ustedes se ayudaban?
EB: Entre nosotros.
JB: ¿Y cada persona o cada familia cocinaba para sí sola o hacían una gran comida?
EB: Cada quien hacia su comida.
JB: Okay y más sobre su tiempo allí en el albergue. ¿Fue difícil encontrar, digamos paz, en esos momentos o estaban todavía en shock no sabían que es lo que estaba pasando allá afuera?
EB: Aha no sabíamos lo que estaba pasando. No teníamos la idea de que tan desastre era, solo mirar las noticias ajá y las personas que estaban aquí, llamaban, preguntaban.
JB: ¿Pero aún tenían acceso a ver televisión, no se había ido ni la antena, la comunicación aún estaba?
EB: Sí, ya como a la semana que se miraba que ya había regresado la luz y el cable y todo eso ya, sí, ya se miraba.
JB: ¿Pero cuando ustedes estaban encerrados tenían acceso a la tele?
EB: No, solo la radio.
JB: La radio. ¿Y no, no tenían acceso al teléfono, tampoco?
EB: No, tampoco.
JB: ¿Y cómo se comunicaban para afuera?
EB: No, solo estar viendo allí la lluvia y escuchar.
JB: ¿Y en la radio anunciaban a dónde iba, por dónde iba el huracán o nomás anunciaban las muertes o?
EB: Algunos periodistas exageraban, ya la gente ya ni quería escuchar tanta noticia porque algunas eran falsas decían y algo traen verdadera no se sabía que lo que realmente estaba sucediendo.
JB: ¿Y exageraban en los números de muertes o de cómo era el huracán?
EB: Sí.
JB: Okay. ¿Cómo se comunicó con su familia? ¿Cómo ellos sabían que eso estaba bien?
EB: Ya como cuando comenzaron ya las radios a abrir y entonces ya allí se empezó uno a llamar a decirle que todo estaba bien.
JB: ¿Y tenían que llamar a una radio especifica donde estaba su familia como algún departamento o era una radio de todo Honduras?
EB: Si una radio donde se escucha en todo en todo Honduras.
JB: ¿Y el anuncio de qué consistía?
EB: No, o sea uno llamaba, le avisaba a la familia que todo estaba bien.
JB: ¿Entonces no era a través de la radio, era nomás llamada normal?
EB: Si ya llamada normal.
JB: ¿Entonces usted se pudo contactar con su mamá y su otra familia?
EB: Si ya como en noviembre ella como al mes.
JB: ¿Tomó entonces un mes para poder saber si había si todo estaba bien?
EB: Si porque como eso costaba para poder viajar porque todos los puentes las conexiones eso estaban, no había transporte.
JB: ¿Y cuándo logró volver a ver a su familia?
EB: Ya como en enero.
JB: Entonces tomaron casi tres meses para poder verlos de nuevo.
EB: Si.
JB: ¿Y ya para enero la transportación estaba más rápida o aún estaba en desarrollo?
EB: Sí estaba despacio. Porque por algunos lugares no todavía no podían al otro lado no se esperaba.
JB: Y antes del huracán ¿Cuánto tiempo se tomaba para llegar a donde a la casa de su mamá?
EB: Me tardaba como una hora.
JB: ¿Y ya después del huracán?
EB: Si casi cinco horas, seis horas.
JB: ¿Y usted fue por largo tiempo a visitar su mamá o fue por poco tiempo en enero?
EB: Poco tiempo.
JB: Poco tiempo. ¿Y en ese poco tiempo usted pudo hablar con su mamá para ver cómo fueron los efectos allí donde ella estuvo?
EB: Sí. A ella no casi no porque vivía en lo alto. Casi no fue afectada.
JB: ¿No hubo daño entonces?
EB: No solo los ajá los animales que tenían algo lo había perdido y si la comida costaba que llegara todavía.
JB: ¿Y las casas estaban bien allí en el área de donde estaba su mamá?
EB: Sí, alguna, alguna parte sí sé se había rajado las paredes porque da mucha agua. Y, pero no nos--. No, casi cosas solo materiales, pero no vidas que se habían perdido.
JB: ¿No había inundaciones allí?
EB: No.
JB: ¿Adónde? ¿Estaba cerca su mamá en un departamento cerca del suyo o estaba un poquito más lejitos?
EB: Más lejitos.
JB: Okay. ¿Y allí donde estaba su mamá entonces usted dice que no hago ni un daño o no, el daño fue mínimo en comparación?
EB: Mínimo porque yo estaba en San Pedro Sula en Choloma, era la López allí sí, sí fue fuerte.
JB: ¿Y su esposo usted dice que tuvo que migrar a los Estados Unidos esto fue a causa del huracán o fue ya de su propio porque él quiso?
EB: Sí porque él quiso y también al ver que allí no había futuro.
JB: Y, perdón, en ese mes que ustedes estuvieron arreglando su casa. ¿fueron los dos trabajando a trayendo el dinero para poder pagar o fue uno más que el otro?
EB: Entre los dos trabajando porque yo en día comencé a trabajar en la maquila ya normal y el que comenzó a trabajar acá en Estados Unidos claro el dinero de él era se multiplicaba más.
JB: ¿Entonces usted miró ese cambio financiero cuando su esposo se vino para Estados Unidos?
EB: Si ya era diferente.
JB: Ya fue más fácil.
EB: Si más fácil la vida.
JB: ¿Y cuánto tiempo usted quedó allá en Honduras sola después que su marido se vino?
EB: Un año.
JB: Un año. ¿Y en año al cómo fueron los factores de él, lo que uno le llama post Hurricane--después del huracán? ¿Cómo fue esa vida, como se compara a la vida antes del huracán?
EB: Todas las personas solo hablaban de eso y tragedias que ese año como que como algunos perdieron sus familiares, algunos que habían perdido las casas y todo y habían quedado completamente sin nada. Esas personas cuando comenzaban a hablar uno les preguntaba empezaban a llorar. Se les miraba la tristeza que tenían en sus caras, en su rostro. El sufrimiento que ellos habían pasado.
JB: Y entonces digamos que Honduras estuvo de luto ¿Cuánto tiempo se cree que esto ocurrió?
EB: Mucho tiempo. Yo creo que hasta la vez las personas que estuvieron en ese momento y que perdieron sus familiares, sus cosas todavía. Se les quedó eso, nunca lo olvidan.
JB: ¿Usted estaba joven en este tiempo?
EB: Sí.
JB: Y ¿Cómo esta experiencia afectaría la vida de un niño?
EB: Porque las escuelas todo cerrado cuando se llegó--ellos estaban de vacaciones cuando se llegó--que ya tenían que regresar las escuelas estaban ocupadas por personas eso difícil para ellos porque la rutina y todo eso que ellos tenían, todo se atrasó.
JB: ¿Y usted no tenía niños en este momento?
EB: No. Estaba embarazada.
JB: ¿Y ya cuando tuvo su hijo fue allá en Honduras o aquí en los Estados Unidos?
EB: Allá en Honduras.
JB: ¿Cómo fue su experiencia o cómo cree usted que esa experiencia hubiera sido diferente si hubiera ocurrido antes del huracán?
EB: Hubiera sido mejor.
JB: ¿Y porque dice que hubiera sido mejor?
EB: Porque tanto ver personas sufridas y yo debía tener cuidado porque estaba empezando a salir estaban mis primeros meses para caminar para andar en lugares debía tener mucho cuidado y más las bacterias y todo que las enfermedades después vinieron pestes que las personas se enfermaban de tantas bacterias que habían quedado.
JB: ¿Y usted tenía cuidado en un hospital o una clínica durante ese tiempo cuando estaba embarazada?
EB: Si una clínica tenía de allí mismo del trabajo ellos me daban las clínicas los doctores que me estaban chequeando.
JB: ¿Y las clínicas estaban llenas de personas que se habían golpeado o que se habían o que habían tenido un accidente durante el huracán o ya casi ya había bajado cuando usted se embarazo?
EB: Sí, ya había ya había bajado.
JB: ¿Usted cree que el cuidado de la clínica hubiese sido diferente si hubiera ocurrido antes del huracán?
EB: Sí, claro, porque no estaban pendientes en tantas personas. Hasta los doctores porque allí fue allí el problema fue para todos allí, pobres, ricos y estudiados, no graduados para todo fue igual el impacto.
JB: Todos quedaron.
EB: Si todos quedó esa huella acá digamos.
JB: Y ahora reflexionando de evento ¿Qué cree que hubiera sido mejores formas del gobierno haber ayudado? Usted mencionó que ellos daban comida, daban casa, pero ¿Cuáles fueron cuáles son otras cosas que usted piensa que el gobierno pudo haber hecho?
EB: O sea dar medicina para las personas que realmente necesitaban y ayudar más y estar preparados. Por el desastre. O sea que ellos no estaban ni preparados, no tenían una agenda. “Mire si aquí viene un desastre en cuanto tiempo no podemos recuperar” nada de eso.
JB: Y usted mencionó que había unas que se aprovecharon y miraron a los muertos y decían que era su hijo y necesitaban del gobierno. ¿Cómo cree que el gobierno pudo haber facilitado este programa para que las personas recibieran lo que no era de ellos?
EB: Sí, llevar una contabilidad mejor que hubieran chequeado todo digamos la información, pero me imagino las personas sabían hacerlo como hoy en día tal vez existe lo mismo que hay personas que siempre quieren hacerse pasar o usando otras cosas que no son ni de ellos como robando e identidades.
JB: ¿Y el procedimiento de las personas en ese tiempo todo era papel, en papel?
EB: Sí, todo me daba en papel.
JB: Entonces también me imagino que tal vez había unos papeles también que se fueron afectados con el huracán, se destruyeron y todo eso.
EB: Sí. Muchas personas. Todavía creo están algunos que no han podido ni arreglar sus problemas con los papeles porque como allí todo se perdió. No estaba todo computarizado.
JB: Si el huracán fuese a pasar hoy en este año 2023 en vez de 1998, ¿cuáles cree usted que fueran unas de las diferencias?
EB: Si hoy la tecnología, como le repito--. Después ellos vinieron, ya dieron como un carné, era la cédula un ID eso ya venía, nos tomaron fotografías y ya las huellas ya fue diferente. Porque hoy los podemos están todos en computadora. Cuando ya vamos a cualquier lugar. Aquí hay embajadas en Estados Unidos. Uno va y nos enseña las fotografías de allí “mira ve esta fue su primera vez que fue a solicitar sus documentos” ya nos dieron un ID ya diferente ya todo ya podían saber quién era la persona o pueden saber quién es con las huellas, la fotografía y todo ya nos conectan mejor.
JB: ¿Y usted cree que gobierno pudo o pudiera ayudar más y hubiera ocurrido en 2023 o hubiera sido casi lo mismo?
EB: Si hubiera podido ayudar más. Si como ya como más organizado. Como allí también entre los políticos, todos sus familiares, sus las ayudas iban a quienes sus conocidos algunas personas aprovecharon tal vez ellos ni tenían las utilidades y dijeron se perdió aquí la electricidad por favor vengan a arreglar vengan a ponerlo acá y como no llevaba una contabilidad ellos ni sabían y recibieron mucha ayuda.
JB: ¿Entonces usted cree que los políticos recibieron mayoría de la ayuda durante tiempo?
EB: Sí porque me podía ver allí porque yo recuerdo que a mi mamá le fueron a decir allí conoce usted algunas personas a las que perdieron aquí las casas y todo denos la lista entonces mi mami las amistades de ella entonces dijo les llevo toda la información y les dijo aquí van a ver vamos a hacer aquí una colonia y en lugar y yo los puse allá sus nombres y porque a mi mamá la conocían ya ella tenía más amistades con los políticos porque ella trabajaba en la política. Entonces tenía como conexiones. Entonces ellos le dijeron a mi mamá tráiganme todas esas personas que realmente necesitan. Entonces mi mami allí conocidos y de todo los llevo y les ayudó.
JB: ¿Y ella pudo ayudar también personas fuera de su departamento, fuera de su ciudad?
EB: No, solo los que estaban allí en la ciudad.
JB: A los conocidos.
EB: A los conocidos.
JB: ¿Y ella pudo haber ayudado a usted o no estaba muy lejos?
EB: Sí, ella me dijo que me podía ayudar, pero tenía que permanecer allí y yo vivía en otro lugar, o sea, la ayuda que yo tenía que recibir tenía que hacer allá donde yo estaba viviendo. Porque me tenía que mudar allí porque ellos tenían que pagar a una persona o yo para poder construir la casa de nuevo.
JB: ¿Y la ayuda que estaban brindando allí donde su abuela estaba inscribiendo las personas era inmediata o era ayuda prometida allá en el futuro?
EB: Prometida en el futuro porque fue Irlanda quien envió esa ayuda para poder construir allí en ese país entonces ellos fueron y así se llama también en la colonia Irlanda le pusieron porque mi tía allí ella consiguió casa y tuvo que trabajar bastante tiempo y hasta que terminaron completamente toda la colonia hicieron todas las cosas ya vinieron ellos y les dijeron okay esta es su casa y así les fueron entregando a todas las personas pero que las personas que terminaron el proceso desde que comenzaron hasta que terminaron y algunas personas solo empezaron y ya nos siguieron.
JB: El procedimiento fue largo ¿De qué consistía?
EB: De ir a trabajar. Desde las personas, las mujeres cocinaban para los hombres que iban a trabajar, las que no podían y mujeres que podían trabajar iban a trabajar allí alcanzar las herramientas para que pudieran o sacar tierra para poder construir las casas.
JB: ¿Entonces el trabajo consistía en construir la casa la casa donde ellos iban a vivir o donde iba era una colonia?
EB: Era una colonia o sea construyeron todita la colonia todas las casas para todos y todos unidos digamos.
JB: ¿Y entonces las casas no fueron distribuidas hasta que se completaron todas o iban dando las tras iban completándose cada casa?
EB: Hasta que ya se terminaron todos las pues yo creo la rifaron o allí hubo también personas que dijeron porque por conocido como siempre tenían conexión a personas les dieron los mejores lugares.
JB: ¿Y se aseguraron las personas de que bueno se aseguraron de que las personas habían trabajado todo ese tiempo o vamos a decir si el procedimiento ya estaba por terminar se podía unir cualquier persona para decir oh yo vengo aquí a ayudar y quiero una casa?
EB: No, tenían que digamos así unas personas que ya eran de que no tenían cómo ellas trabajar, ya no podían, eran de sesenta años, setenta años, las abuelas digamos, ellas pagaban a una persona u otra persona los pudiera suplir, pero sí se llevaban él no lo podían si decía yo quiero y voy a liberarme aquí no ya no podía porque eso es desde el comienzo.
JB: ¿Y las personas viejas que mandaban a alguien a suplirlos tenía firmado algún documento o era nomás por palabra?
EB: No un documento allí llevaba allí tenían un comité entonces allí iban chequeando todas las personas con presidente, vicepresidente, todos esos tenían allí el control de la persona y las firma de quienes habían trabajado hoy al principio ellos no podían vender como que tenían alguna póliza me imagino que ellos dijeron no porque hasta que haiga nosotros algunos cinco o diez años después y ya las personas comenzaron a vender sus propiedades.
JB: ¿Entonces ellos habían firmado un contrato que decía que no podían vender sus casas hasta que pasara estos esta cantidad de años?
EB: Sí me imagino que sí porque no nadie podía vender ni cambiar ni nada. Todo donde les habían prometido allí donde les habían asignado allí tenían que quedarse.
JB: ¿Y el gobierno invirtió en las escuelas después de del huracán ya que allí fue un albergue o un lugar donde las personas fueron a vivir mientras estaban construyendo su casa de nuevo?
EB: Sí enviaron ayudas porque sí construyeron las y cuidaron las escuelas para mí es una comunidad también. Entre ellos comenzaron a limpiar, a preparar.
JB: ¿Y usted miró algún aumento en las escuelas, las construcciones de las escuelas o usted piensa que quedaron casi igual?
EB: Casi igual.
JB: Y como bueno usted mencionó que bastantes niños tuvieron quedarse fuera de la escuela a causa del huracán y porque también las personas estaban viviendo allí. ¿Cómo cree que esto afectó su educación?
EB: Si afectó bastante porque lo que tenían que aprender no lo aprendieron y ya digamos las personas no fueron preparadas como deberían de ser.
JB: ¿y perdieron el año o tuvieron que resumir después?
EB: Sí, resumir después. Ósea, dar los fines de semana, lo que podían.
JB: Y ellos comenzaron mucho más, bueno, ¿Cuántos meses cree usted que duró para que todo fuera de nuevo?
EB: Yo creo que como dos años.
JB: Dos años.
EB: Si algunos lugares costo porque allí donde vivía la tía de mi esposo esa escuela todavía no podía porque no tenían las personas donde las que estaban allí viviendo no tenían a donde irse todavía ya costo bastante.
JB: ¿Y si vamos a decir que había un estudiante que estaba por graduarse del sexto grado tuvo que esperar casi dos años para poder graduarse digamos?
EB: No sé realmente qué fue lo que pasó allí porque como yo no estudiaba y tal vez mi mamá se sabe que como ella mis hermanos iban a la escuela.
JB: Sí, está bien, no se preocupe. Y bueno ya casi vamos a al final, pero quiero hacerle una pregunta más. ¿Usted cree que hay otras formas en que los Estados Unidos pudo haberse involucrado en ayuda de bueno para ayudar a Honduras en estos en esos momentos difíciles?
EB: Me imagino que si Estados Unidos envió mucho mucha ayuda pero sí como todavía no se podía digamos no había tanta tecnología y las ayudas a saber en que las invirtieron nunca se supo si realmente llegó a la comunidad que necesitaba como le digo allí donde esos lugares donde vivía así como la familia de mi esposo allí costó dos años o más tiempo para que pudieran volver a abrir escuelas, colegios y todo eso fue porque la ayuda eso costó que llegar a esos lugares remotos digamos donde no podían ni tener alguna conexión poder chequear que en realidad necesitaban esa ayuda.
JB: Y los Estados Unidos es conocido por enviar comida y ropa. ¿Cree usted que con lo que ellos mandaron fue casi lo mismo? Como usted mencionó que los políticos tuvieron la oportunidad de agarrar lo mejor… ¿Cree usted que los políticos en este momento pudieron recibir mayoría de la comida que los Estados Unidos estaban enviando y la y la ropa?
EB: Sí, me imagino que sí, que como a sus colegas eran los primeros como a sus conocidos.
JB: Sí.
EB: Que la ayuda iba para ellos.
JB: ¿Y la radio, en la radio no mencionaban nada de ayudas de los Estados Unidos?
EB: Sí mencionaba las noticias, pero como también en la ya no se creía tanto en noticia. Porque decían por allá algún lugar están ayudando están dando y las personas iban a veces ni lo lograban.
JB: ¿Entonces no era mucha la ayuda o a veces no existía?
EB: Ajá sí, inventaba. Pero sí, bastantes países se unieron. Sí ayudaban.
JB: Sí. Bueno, muchas gracias por permitirme entrevistarla.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcriber: Johana Bautista-Ayala
Interview Date: April 18, 2023
Date of Transcription: April 19, 2023
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-1014 -- Bautista, Elsi.
Description
An account of the resource
This interview was conducted in Spanish by Johana Bautista-Ayala with her mother, Elsi Bautista. Throughout the interview, Elsi tells us her family’s perspective and history on their migration experience from Honduras to the United States due to environmental factors, primarily the disaster caused by Hurricane Mitch. Elsi recounts much of this dramatic experience such as: the lack of information to prepare for what was coming and in the aftermath; the destruction of homes, loss of livestock, and other economic challenges; life sheltering at a school even after schools returned in session; the loss of community leadership, including the death of the governor; and the aid sent by the United States, much of which Elsi believes never reached the affected communities.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-04-18
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29358">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1014_Audio.mp3
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/44674ef4d0a68c0151b30559779b37c2.mp3
bcafe01570802bcc016ff69f429450d1
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/bc20b14e62aeb6fee4962ebdf2b3ba3e.pdf
74920634ff316b93ee6570731203c0d7
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1015
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2023-03-31
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Luna, Martin.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Real estate agents
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1962
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
La Barca -- Jalisco -- México
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Asheville -- Buncombe County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-102.50327 20.3572079),1962,1;POINT(-82.546957 35.691935),1985,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Luna, Sophia.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
North Carolina resident Martin Luna recounts his experience moving to the United States from Jalisco, Mexico in 1985 as a recently-graduated food engineering student. Luna arrived to work at the Blue Ridge Assembly in Black Mountain, North Carolina over the summer as an international student worker. Throughout the interview he describes the importance of several interpersonal relationships that shaped his work experience and that created the opportunity for him to attempt to pursue graduate school at Clemson University. He references the language barrier as a recurring challenge in his U.S. education. He also describes the role mental health had in his experiences in the U.S. Luna reflects on his experiences in both Mexico and the U.S.’s education systems, and closes the interview describing the kinds of challenges current Latin American immigrant students face within education systems and how they compare to the ones he experienced.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Martin Luna by Sophia Luna, 31 March 2023, R-1015, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29328
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Higher Education; Language and communication; Migratory experience; Separation and reunification; Receiving communities
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Inmobiliarios
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Residente de Carolina del Norte Martin Luna relata su experiencia cuando se mudo a los Estados unidos desde Jalisco, México, en 1985. Era un estudiante de ingeniería de alimentos recién graduado. Luna llegó con el propósito de trabajar en el Blue Ridge Assembly en Black Mountain, Carolina del Norte durante el verano como un estudiante trabajador internacional. A lo largo de la entrevista él describe la importancia de muchas relaciones interpersonales que formaron su experiencia y crearon la oportunidad de intentar asistir a la escuela de posgrado en Clemson University. Resalta la barrera del idioma como un tema recurrente durante su educación estadounidense. También describe el papel que la salud mental tuvo en su experiencia en los Estados Unidos. Luna refleja su experiencia educativa tanto en México como en los Estados Unidos, y termina la entrevista con una descripción de los retos que estudiantes inmigrantes de Latinoamérica hoy en día enfrentan dentro de sistemas educativos y como aquellos se comparan a los que él experimentó.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Martin Luna por Sophia Luna, 31 March 2023, R-1015, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Comunidades receptoras; Educación superior; Lenguaje y comunicación; Experiencia migratoria; Separación y reunificación
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:00]
[START OF RECORDING]
Sophia Luna [00:00:04]: Okay. It's 9:26 in the morning on March thirty first--March 31, 2023, and I am on a Zoom call joined by Martin Luna in his home in Asheville, North Carolina. So, can you describe--.
Martin Luna: Hey.
SL: A little bit about where you're from and what your life was like there?
ML [00:00:26]: Well, I was born in La Barca, which is a little town in Jalisco, close to Guadalajara. But, but I, growing up in Mexico, I kind of grew up in different cities because my dad worked for a bank and he was promoted, or he was tired of working in a place, so he used to move around. So, I lived in a lot of different cities, you know, in Sonora, in Mexico City, Guadalajara, Puebla, Querétaro, Toluca. So all those towns, some of them big towns, big cities, other ones, small--well, they were all cities--made me appreciate my countryside, and also learn to, to move around. So I was very close to my family because we were like, I have three brothers, four brothers and one sister. So we did a lot of things together growing up. So I was, you know, very family oriented, very, you know, driven, you know. [00:01:51] And I was one of the first ones to go to a private middle school and high school and then private college. My other siblings, they just went to state college. So it made a difference, you know, for me. It was very academic oriented, so I was striving to do my best in elementary school, middle school, high school. My parents never pressed me to study. They never pressed us to, you know, they just kind of coached us to do our best. But they never pressed us as far as academically. So it was more like my inner side motivation to always, you know, do what I can and do my best and learn as much as I could.
SL: Yeah. So where were you living when you started those private schools that you mentioned in Mexico?
ML [00:02:51]: We moved from Guadalajara to Mexico City, so I had to drive, I had to travel on the bus by myself. I was, I don't know, I was, I was probably you know, I was coming out of elementary school. So my mom took me to a bus and then I had to travel all the way to Mexico City because my dad was already working in the bank in Mexico City. And I remember when I got to the bus station, I was like, I started walking, following the people, and it was like a sea of people that I didn't know, and being so petite, you know, so I was petite. I was, I was one of the first one or the second one. Out of sixty people I was the shortest one. Anyway, I was very intimidated by that. But then finally I saw a smiling face and I recognized my dad, and I was like, “Oh, [Laugher] thank God he's there.” But yeah, so and I remember going to that middle school, you know, there's of course there's no school buses in Mexico. So I had to take public transportation, and mom raising four children back then, it was, always to do everything on my own and walk, you know, a couple of blocks and take the public bus. And sometimes it was so crowded [laughs].
SL: Yeah.
ML: That I had to, I had to just grab--. [Audio briefly cuts out due to internet connectivity issues]. Until people move up and then I could, you know, crawl up to the to the safer area. Never, never a seat because there’s always crowded. [laughs]
SL: And so when you when you started at that different school, like did you notice did you notice that it was different from the public school that you had gone to before or that your siblings were going to at the time or?
ML [00:04:46]: Of course. Of course, yeah. So, it was like night and day. You know, we only had one teacher for the whole elementary school for the [inaudible]. And there was kind of a very, you know, unformal informal but here it was very structured. Have like five or six classes every day. And all of them, you know, always pushing for doing our best. And also in this particular school it was just men. So we were just men just children. You know, middle schoolers. There was no female students. And it was run by an organization that was, you know, Catholic. Hermanos Maristas. So Maurice Brotherhood. So it was very prestigious and very difficult to get in because a lot of people wanted to study there, because of the formation, you know, academic formation.
SL: Yeah. So then how did it come about between you and your parents or your family that you decided to go to that prestigious school? Did you decide or was it--.
ML: I lost you. [laughs].
SL: Your parents, or you made the decision--.
ML: I lost you. I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything repeat that question, please?
SL: Oh, so when you when you mentioned that you were the only one of your siblings to go to this private school. So was that your decision or was that a decision that your parents sought out for you?
ML: Okay. I only heard my decision or my parents' decision. We having bad communication right now, so I only heard that. So, no, it was kind of. [00:06:47] My mom was kind of looking around, where should I go? And of course, he had relatives that they were in that organization, you know, in that brotherhood. So she kind of reached out to them to see if I could get in. But actually it was more academically their decision. That it was better. And of course, it was going to be, there was a cost, there was a tuition, of course. So they decided it was better for my education.
SL: Okay. And so then that was middle and high school. And so then moving, fast forwarding a bit, can you describe what your experience was like after high school and choosing to pursue higher education, whether that be in Mexico or whether when you decided to or if you decided to move to the United States?
ML: Okay. So in that particular school I met a lot of people, made friends and so forth. Some of them had the opportunity to travel to the United States. So the culture back then, for me, it was like I like a lot of American music and, you know, see TV programming and so forth; Of course dubbed in Spanish. But I was also taking English classes, you know, since middle school. I think it was more high school. In high school, I started taking English classes. So that opened up a little bit more of a desire to come to the United States in high school and actually I had a friend that was able to travel and do an exchange student. And then when he came back, he was like us, you know, really, really talking really. It was a great experience for him. So that kind of put the seed of me trying to do that. And I tried to. My dad, my dad at some point sent me to the border because he had an uncle, and I because I had really good grades that was my reward. He couldn't send me to; He didn’t know anybody to send me, you know, to the United States, but he knew somebody at the border. So I ended up going to a, you know, summer course of English, but it was in the Mexican side. So it made a big difference because you knew that you were like learning the structure, the grammar. But we were not practicing it because we were in Mexico. [laughs]. So it was an experience. It was really hot. So I was at right at the border of Matamoros. [00:09:39] But anyway, my transition to college was very interesting because I wanted to move to. I never liked Mexico City. I mean, I was safe and, you know, adapted, but I didn't like the fact that there was very little sun, very dark, a lot of traffic, some sort of crime. Anyway, because we traveled so many places there were other cities that were beautiful and that felt really good. So my dad got another job in Puebla and he was moving the whole family to Puebla. Two of my brothers were already in college, so they couldn't move. So they, they, they were going to stay in Mexico City. I wanted to move to Guadalajara, but my parents said no. Because they couldn't afford to split the family in three ways. So I had to follow suit. But there was like five or six universities in Puebla. And I chose the best and the most expensive one.
SL: [Laughter].
ML: And that kind of my parents, they did the effort to send me to the Universidad de las Americas Puebla, which is between Puebla and Cholula, and it's a very prestigious university. It's actually back then was the only one, or one of the few ones recognized by the Southern Association of the Board of Colleges in the United States. So that was a major thing back then. But anyway, I was not thinking about moving to the United States at all. I was just going over there to learn and I chose an engineering degree, which was a field that very few people; It was kind of a new career. It was food engineering. Like chemical engineering specializing in food. And I excelled there. I was one of the few students that finished the course. We started like thirty, thirty-seven students. And in Mexico to study to get a degree in college it's always five years.
SL: Right.
ML: Not four. So, so, so it was five years. And back then out of thirty-seven students from my generation, there were three that we finished. And also there were like three others that we catch [caught] up that they were behind. So we were like six or seven. I graduated in 1985.
SL: Okay.
ML: And at that time I also took English courses and I met all American people that were studying over there. So I had some connections, you know, with people from the United States. Of course, I was immersed in the city, so I had to take two buses to go to the college, you know, from where I live to go to the center of the city and then take another bus to go to Cholula. And anyway, I met a lot of people, made a lot of friends. And I was actually, like, my fourth year, I got into-- I was the president of my career in food engineering. And in that I met some people, some presidents of other areas. You know, there was like, I don't know, like sixteen different fields, careers. So we used to get together and do things, you know, to promote the university or for the good of everybody. [00:13:26] And I met a guy who told me about this excellent program that he went to and basically that it was in Black Mountain, North Carolina. And that basically if you were accepted they will give you a visa, a work study visa, and give you room and board and you could work there during the summer time. And so that was that became a dream for me to go once he told me about it.
SL: Yeah.
ML: That kind of started changing my life a little bit [laughs].
SL: Right. So, can you describe a little bit the process of what applying for this program in Black Mountain was like and how long that took, or just your general, like, experience applying for that program?
ML: Well, it was kind of difficult to get in because when he told me about it and I applied, he told me like in in April. In April, something like that, that's when I learned about this. So I applied immediately. And of course they sent me a letter saying they rejected me because they said it's already, you know, we already have the staff. You know, the American people plan ahead. So it was not like, hey, you can come now [laughs].
SL: Right [laughs].
ML: Last minute, last minute. But back then, I didn't know. I didn't know. I just started the process and I was intimidated because I had to fill out the form in English and I didn't know who to ask. So I did it on my own. My parents never speak English, so, um, and I didn't. I was kind of a solo person. I never asked for advice or I didn't know who to ask, you know, basically. But anyway, I was rejected. And then what I did is I went ahead and reapplied in November and I sent you know, they asked me for three reference letters. So I got my letters, I got everything. And then I got accepted. And then I got the letter. It was one of my happiest moments in my life because I knew that it was going to be something that I really wanted to try not knowing how it was going to be. But I just wanted to try, and to have that experience of being in another country.
ML: My parents, you know, tried to send me. But it was very expensive, really. So, this was like a big accomplishment for me. And that happened right after I graduated from college, you know. My dad did a big celebration. We got a lot of family gathering to celebrate my accomplishment. And then a few days later, I had to take a bus and come to the United States. Since I have like certain deadline to arrive, I was supposed to take a bus right after my graduation. But it was the party and we had so many family at home that one of my uncles said: “Well, don't worry about going on bus. I'll fly you in.”
SL: Oh, okay.
ML: So he was hoping to fly me all the way to here. But when he started checking on the prices and everything, he realized how expensive it was.
SL: [Laughter]
ML: To fly from Puebla or from Mexico City to Asheville. He went ahead and just flew me to Matamoros.
SL: Okay.
ML: And then from there I took the bus, which was fine. It was fine with me because I was going to do the whole, whole tour in a bus. I already had my ticket anyway. And back then it was like for fifty dollars, you could buy a ticket and you could go anywhere in the United States for, for, you know, seven days. You could travel all over the place with fifty dollars during seven days.
SL: Interesting. Okay. Can you remember what it was like when you first arrived or what your first impressions were of Black Mountain, and just what your general experience was, I guess in the first weeks and months of you living there and what you were doing in the program, too.
ML: [00:17:35] Sure. Well, I got really welcomed. I was very welcomed. They, you know, they sent somebody to pick me up in a band. Well, arriving, of course, traveling in a bus, I was like looking at a lot of terrains and a lot of time to think about different things. But I remember, you know, from seeing different sceneries. And then once we started getting to Hendersonville, I started seeing a lot of green and a lot of green. Never seen so much green during the summertime. You know, like everywhere. So I was very, very impressed with the beauty of the mountains and the beauty of the forest. So when this guy picked me up, took me over there, I was kind of late because I kind of took a detour. I got like two days late. I didn't got to the orientation. I got there like two days after because I took a detour to go to Orlando and meet some family member and then came back. I was just because I have that advantage of the--. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: You could travel right for free.
SL: Right. [laughs]
ML: Well, as long as wherever you want to go. I went to Orlando, but I didn't visit anything. I was just. It was just wasting time, really, because I didn't do anything [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: But anyway. I was really welcome. Everybody was friendly. Everybody was very, you know, young. Most of the people were younger than me, but they were very, very friendly. Because most of the staff was college. So they were in college, or some of them they were in Master’s, but we were kind of similar age. And the center was very organized. And, you know, to make the experience even better. And some of the jobs were kind of tedious. They rotate every three weeks. So every three weeks you change. Two or three weeks, you change to a different department. So making it fun. And of course, every time you--[Audio briefly cuts out due to internet connectivity issues].
SL: You were mentioning how at the place you worked, they changed every three weeks to keep things interesting for the people working there.
ML: Yes. Yes, and so I felt very welcome. This YMCA is one of the largest facilities in the southern area, the southern region. It is owned by ten different states around North Carolina. It’s a conference center. So they bring people or different groups through the week or for the weekend to have a conference. So some of them were small, like two hundred people, other ones were like fifteen hundred people. So we were about maybe, let’s see, I’m trying to remember. We were twenty men and maybe thirty or forty women plus the management people. And we were, you know, in different places on the campus. It’s a huge campus. So every week we had to change everything.
SL: Right.
ML: At the conference they were coming to learn a lot of different things so we had to set the whole campus to their needs. And then, so they’ve been doing this since 1908. You know the center was founded back then. So through the years it's been very well organized, there's a lot of brotherhood, there's a lot of history and it's very well organized. So when I came I was very impressed that everything was so organized and we had fun and also played and made it very interesting. So, through the whole two and a half month experience every weekend we had themed parties. New year’s, Christmas in July, international night, a talent show, different things--Hawaiian party--different activities that kept us engaged and kept us having fun, and made the work kind of easy.
SL: Yeah.
ML: And there were always opportunities. So I took one opportunity myself and I noticed that the people that work less were the lifeguards [laughs].
SL: [Laughter].
ML: So I find out how I can become a lifeguard [laughs].
SL: [Laughter].
ML: So I took the class, and I got my certificate of lifeguard. So I was able to work, you know, and that was the most fun thing to do because you just clean, give a little bit of maintenance to the pool, and just sit down and see people and enjoy the sun [laughs].
SL: [Laughs]. Right.
ML: And get paid without having to clean or having to do a lot of work [laughs].
SL: That's funny. So being, you mentioned that you moved, you started this program right after finishing college and your engineering degree. So when you were living in Black Mountain and in North Carolina were you aware of any, you know, educational opportunities that interested you? Or were you wanting to continue your education in the United States? What was your sense of the educational sphere of North Carolina?
ML [00:23:47]: Well, for me, back then my priority was to feel fluent in the language. And I knew that my English was very very limited. I remember when I put in my application that I speak 80 percent of English. I knew 80 percent. But I realized I didn’t know. I mean I knew the grammar and the structure but I didn’t know how to speak. You know. So to me that was kind of an obstacle, a big obstacle. So I did want to learn the language. My first--I knew that the program was going to finish so I tried to figure out how to stay more. And I knew that the assembly was the YMCA Blue Ridge Assembly, so the assembly was hiring people to stay a little bit longer. And I wanted to stay. And I expressed my interest of staying, but they already hired other people that they had in mind. So I didn’t, I was not accepted. But when I talked to one of the executes about my desire to stay he kind of hooked me up with another executive from another town and said “Hey, this guy wants to stay as an exchange student.” You know, so he offered me, the gentleman offered me an opportunity to live in his home so I could continue with this experience and continue with learning the language. So I lived like two months with them in their home. And then when my visa expired I had to go back to Mexico.
SL: Right.
ML: And that was something that I had to do it on my own again. Nobody told me “Hey, you can stay.” I said “Well my visa will expire at the end of October, so I have to go back to my family.” And I did. So when I went back to Mexico, in my mind, I was like “Oh, that was a great experience, I feel better about the language, but I want to work on my field.” So I went to the town that I wanted to live, which was Guadalajara, and started looking for all the industries to find work and just start interviewing by myself. Talking to people saying “Hey, I just graduated from the university, I can help you.” I started offering my services. Because most people, they didn't know what food engineering could do in their industry. Remember I kind of went to like six or sevent interviews that I introduced myself to see if they were hiring and that I was available.
SL: Right. Right. So, did anything--.
ML: And then--.
SL: Go ahead.
ML: And then what happened was I went back to my parents to celebrate Christmas and New Year’s, and when I was back in Puebla, because I spent maybe a month exploring job opportunities in Mexico. A month, a month and a half and I was staying with relatives. Then I went to Puebla to see my parents, finally. [00:27:14] When I was there I got a phone call that changed my whole life. Because one of the executives called me and said “Hey, Martin, we really enjoyed your work ethic and we really would like for you to come back next year, would you like to do that?” And since I had a wonderful experience I said “Yes, of course!” So that phone call, without consulting anybody, I was like “Wow! That's great! I can go back!” Changed my whole life because then I was not pursue--I got distracted and was not pursuing my professional career. I kind of put that on the side and said “Well, I just need to work part time, you know, in another area or do something while I wait until I go back to United States.”
SL: Okay.
ML: So that’s what I did. I got a temporary job at the beach and I was using my English as I was working in a Japanese restaurant [laughs]. In a Japanese restaurant I was hired there. And I worked there for a while but it was hard to be on my own, to be honest. I was not used to being on my own, living by myself and making decisions by myself because we were always in a group. So YMCA was great because I had a brotherhood, a family, and I didn't have to worry about cleaning, cooking, or basic things. You know, so it was learning. But when I was in this beach, I was staying with some people first, but then, you know, they didn’t treat you as nice as the United States [laughs].
SL: Right.
ML: So it was a lot of decisions of: “How I'm going to get to my job? Where am I going to be living? Where am I going to stay?” And the accommodations they gave me were not the greatest ones. But anyway, I didn’t last too long there. When I got tired and just flew to Mexico City and went back to my parents and just waited until my opportunity to go back to the United States came.
SL: Right. And so what was your second experience like in the United States, and what did you do after the Blue Ridge Assembly?
ML: Sure. So it was even better, started meeting people again and then said “Well, I would like to stay here longer. How can I stay longer?” And it was three choices I had: One was, a friend from Nigeria says “Well you can join the army, they can definitely probably let you stay.” The other one was going back to college, and the third one was, you know, well if you get married you could probably stay also.
SL: Right.
ML [00:30:23]: But in my mind, it was more like “Well why don't I try to go back to college and try to get a Masters?” I knew several people from the University of Americas who had done that in different cities. In different countries. Some of them went to Germany, other ones went to Spain, and some to the United States. I knew it was going to be costly so I started to explore that. So I took some trips, I went to [pause] one lady lived in Raleigh so we went to the, I visited the university of, State University in North Carolina. And I didn’t know anything about Clemson, but there was some people from Blue Ridge Assembly that they were the directors of the YMCA in Clemson, and one of them offered me, opened up some opportunities there. So I kind of liked that, and started talking to the directors in Clemson and they said “Yeah, you can come here and help you.” In other words, there were some doors that started to open for me.
SL: Right
ML: So, I went and applied to Clemson. I got a place to stay, and they let me stay there. I paid for my room, for my board. For my food [laughs].
SL: Right
ML: The room was free, my food I paid for it. And then it was an opportunity to decide what I was going to do. And I visited the food science department. And because they knew I had the degree already in that field, they gave me a job.
SL: Right.
ML: So, the things were happening for me. But legally, I was there physically but as far as--how do you say--the credits, getting the credits, I was not admitted officially. I was kind of exploring what I was going to do, and I realized I needed to take more English classes. Because I felt that my English was really bad. The science I already knew, in Spanish.
SL: Right.
ML: And in English. But I was more interested in: What can I do with my field? How can I take what I know to use it in Mexico? And I realized that first I needed to improve my English, which was a big task for me.
SL: Right.
ML: You know, it was difficult. It was difficult because, again, I was by myself but I needed to master that so I could function. Like I am functioning right now.
SL: Right, right. So you hinted a little bit at it, but how did you feel like your degree from the University of the Americas…How did you feel like it translated to the United States and to Clemson specifically? In your opinion?
ML [00:33:50]: Well, it was a good opportunity for me to be there because people were very open, people respect me, you know, the doctors that I talked to. There was Dr. Moore, who was the permanent doctor in food industry and food science. He was kind of my mentor. He took me in, he gave me opportunity to work in the laboratory and start organizing everything there. And pretty much, I was probably, he wanted me to work on research but he knew that I needed time to adjust.
SL: Right.
ML: So, again, the sky was the limit there. We went to a lot of, well, you know being part of the food science group I met several students from other countries. I remember there was an assistant to Dr. Moore who was working on his PhD too, or Masters, that he kind of took me under his wing and he was helping me to fill out the forms which I was very intimidated. And helped me to get into the program, and also, um, so there was a lot of people very welcome. They went through my shoes, came before me, and they were studying and we went to several food events. I remember going to Atlanta to meet Dr. Labuza. Dr. Labuza was very famous for his research in water activity, you know, something that was, back then, really one of the fields that I remember. There are, I mean, so many fields in food industry. But anyway, I was meeting famous people that, before, it was just on a paper.
SL: Right.
ML: That I read about their articles on paper or on books, and I was very, you know, impressed meeting those people in person. And talk to them. Anyway, so everything was going well, and I thought it was a good opportunity for me. [00:36:17] But I had two tragedies that changed my life [laughs]. One, and it was I don’t know, just destiny. But basically, I needed to take two tests for being the next semester enrolled officially. One was the TOEFL. You know, the test for English as a second language proficiency. It’s a proficiency test to tell the university that if you can do it. That your English is good. And the other one is the GRE, I think. Graduate Record Examinate. The GRE. Which was a little bit more tougher that all the American people needed to take. The first one is just for foreign students. The second one was for all, you know, anybody that wanted to do a graduate study. So, the first one you know, unfortunately it was not offered on campus. It was in another city which was Greenville. So I needed to travel over there. And I didn’t know, you know it was on a Saturday morning. So talking to my people that I knew, there was another Chinese student that was going to take it. And I learned through my supervisor that says “This person needs to take it.” So I talked to him and I asked him if he could take me to the place, to Greenville, and he said “Yes, I’ll take you.” And then we set up a place and a time to meet. And then the second one was going to be offered there in the college, so I was already enrolled to take it there.
So I think it was like the end of October, or around October. It was around October when I took the test, I was supposed to meet this Chinese student to take the test. And I remember I got up in the morning early, and it was raining, it was pouring rain and everything. And I was out there in the corner where we were supposed to meet, and it was dark, and I was there for almost forty-five minutes and he didn’t show up. And I stayed there and stayed there and I never saw it, he never came back to pick me up. He probably did, but because of the language barrier maybe he didn’t know where I was and maybe he--I don't know. I don’t know what happened but he never showed up. And I was supposed to be there at 9, but by 8:30 I started crying and crying because, you know, that was very important for me to be in there. So I went to see other friends, and they didn’t have cars, so they couldn’t do anything. And they said “Don’t worry about it, don't worry about it,” but I felt, like, defeated because I wasn’t going to get into the next semester enrollment. And so, from then I started to feel, you know, and I didn't know back then, but I started to feel depressed because I didn’t know what to do. When I took the second test, I was encouraging to do it but when I took it I also felt defeated because it was really really difficult [laughs].
SL: [Laughs] Yeah, the GRE is…
ML [00:39:46]: It was very difficult, and I felt like a failure. Like “I failed, so what am I going to do? How am I going to get into the official Master’s degree?” And all this is the pressure that I knew it was costing me money, and I knew that my parents could not afford to send me to college, so kind of, I got into a depression stage.
SL: Yeah.
ML: I knew Christine, and Christine wanted to help me out and she always wanted to say “Well, you know maybe college is not for you. Maybe you can come to Asheville, come back to Asheville, and you can find a job here in Asheville and do something else.” And I felt like yes, that would be an option, but I really wanted to--I was kind of feeling like the opportunity to study and be in college for, was going to be much better. So I got into a depression. And back then I didn’t, never had depression before, nobody knew about it in my family. I got really depressed so I went back to Mexico defeated.
ML: And when I got back to Mexico, unfortunately my parents were transitioning from one, from Puebla to Guadalajara and the situation, the dynamics were not really good. They were renting a small place that was too small for the family, so it was very, it added more stress. In a good note, by then there was like, already, job opportunities for me and I got into a job as a food engineer and I worked in the Sabrita plant. But I was comparing that job with what I lived here in the United States and the freedom and what I was doing, it was like night and day. Even though I had a job there now I was not happy. My heart was in United States, my heart was in this area of North Carolina, And I wanted to come back. So I decided to come back one more time, so I didn’t gave up. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter] Yeah, right! So what was that like? Was that the last time you came, when you decided you know like you said not to give up, or how did that come about and what happened after that?
ML: Well, you know, through the whole time when I was in Clemson I was dating Christine, and she used to come visit me on weekends or every other weekend when she could. So we, you know, I kind of started being interested in her because she was always there for me, you know. Actually she took me from The Assembly to Clemson, and then when she knew where I was then she was coming every other week or every week. We had fun events, I remember one time we, you know, both being Catholics, the priest from the parish where I was staying in Clemson, he was doing outreach to migrant workers in another place called Walhalla. So I told him that I played the guitar, and he says: “Well why don’t you come over to celebrate mass on the field?” And I did the first time, and I realized that I needed music so the next time I brought my guitar and make it more fun. And Christine went one time with me to those outreach, going to visit the migrants and bringing the word of God on their own homes. You know, they were living in trailers in the middle of the mobile home park we celebrate mass and I was playing the guitar. So that was really really nice.
SL: Yeah
ML: Anyways, um, she was, you know, always offering me “Come back to my home.” So we continued to write letters when I was in Mexico defeated. So she said “Come back here, you can find a job, we can. There’s opportunities here.” So she was always having faith in me that my dream could come true.
SL: Yeah.
ML [00:44:35]: So I came back the third time and I actually came back with another friend. And then we wanted to plan our wedding but, kind of, things moved quickly and we got married.
SL: Right.
ML: [Laughter].
SL: And what year was it when--what year was it that you came back the third time, and then were married?
ML: Eighty-seven. 1987.
SL: Okay.
ML: 1987.
SL: And just for the sake of anyone listening to this interview in the future, can you describe who Christine is and how you met her for the first time?
ML: [Laughter]
SL: Just for context.
ML: Well Christine is my wife, my companion for thirty-five years. So she’s my wife. We met in 1986 in my second summer here. Not--she didn’t work in our field, it just happened. It was like, God put us together, to be honest, you know? I’m a very strong believer, and back in Mexico I always was praying for God for the right person to meet. And basically, through all this events that happened in my life, the way we met it was kind of a coincidence. Because she never went--I think that was the only time she went from Weaverville to Black Mountain, where I was. But I was working at the YMCA but we met in a local bar back then it was called the Town Pump… Town Pump? And we went there with my friends, from Mexico, on a night that they said “Hey let's go down to Black Mountain.” So I did. It was a group of five people, you know, boys and girls. And she came too, out of coincidence, because she didn’t planned to be there at all but one of her friends went and got her out of her job to go--she didn’t want to go by herself because her boyfriend, this girl’s boyfriend--her name is Lisa--and Lisa’s boyfriend was playing in a band, and he was playing in this particular place on that night. So she went and talked to the boss and said “Hey, can you let her come tonight?” And the boss did, Mr. Boyd, I remember his name, Mr. Boyd did let her out earlier. So they went there, and I was there with my friends, and then I remember my friend Paco said “Hey, there’s a lady outside that speaks Spanish. There’s two ladies out there that speak Spanish, let’s go meet them.” So I went outside, and actually Lisa, it was, she didn’t speak Spanish. She’s an American. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: And Lisa, I mean Christine, was both English and Spanish. So we started talking in Spanish and so forth. So we connected and we invited them to come back the next day for another event at The Assembly. Which was the talent show, which was open to anybody. And so we were hoping that both of them were going to come but in the end Christine just showed up. And from then, we kind of started developing a relationship.
SL: Right.
ML: And I remember vividly one time when I called her, she said “Hey”--her mom answered the phone--she said “Hey, would you like to come visit us?” and she say, “You know, we’d like you to come have dinner with us because we’re going to have steak.” and I said “Yes!” And you know the ironic thing is that that night we were going to have steak, too, at The Assembly.
SL: Oh!
ML: That night, but I said yes because I wanted to be out of The Assembly, I wanted to meet other people. So, I went and met her family, and there were some relatives visiting and so forth. But anyway, in the end it just happened that the food was delicious. Country food, it was potatoes and green beans and, and flavors that I never had. Well I tasted them at The Assembly but it was homemade, not bulk [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]. Yeah, that makes sense.
ML: Not bulk recipes.
SL: That difference matters, right.
ML: So I was like “Wow!” And I said to Christine's mom, “Hey, wow you’re a great cook, congratulations!” By the way, she’s from Colombia, and so I felt like I was at home. And she said, “No, no I didn't do the cooking. Christine did.” And I was like “Wow! Really?” [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: And I was really surprised because being so young--I think back then I was twenty-two, she was nineteen--I was like “Wow!”
SL: Yeah.
ML: “Congratulations, you really know how to cook.” Because it was a great meal. A great meal. So all those little things started to, you know, be in my mind. That we connected and that we, you know, eventually got married.
SL: Right, yeah. So, fast forwarding, or kind of switching like fast forwarding or looking to wrap up. After your third time coming to the states, like you describe and kind of coming back from that, as you put it: Trying one more time and not giving up and getting married to Christine--which is all well over I guess twenty years ago--when you think about your life now, I guess how do you view education, or educational experiences that maybe even some of your kids have had, how do you view them in light of the ones you had both in Mexico and the United States?
ML: Well, um, okay so could you rephrase that question?
SL: Yeah. So, when you think about education now like in 2023 in the United States, as you've been living here several years--several decades--how do you think education compares now than it did in the past, when you were part of education and part of the education system?
ML [00:51:28]: Sure. Well, through technology and through the new way of opportunities that students have, the world is shrinking quite a bit. There is more opportunities for new students, definitely. I mean I realize that people that really like school or they like to do something different, they kind of cling to their friends--in other words, there's a dynamic between teachers and students.
ML: You know, there’s a lot of students who are forced to go to school. There’s other students that love to go to school. And teachers kind of guide those students, well try to guide everybody, to do their best but not everybody has that call and not everybody is smart academically. [Clears throat]. The main thing here that I see is that the people that have, from experience, sometimes people have the opportunity to go to college and they have these scholarships and they want to succeed in college, but when they get there they are shocked because it’s not like a public school. Because they know they have to write important papers and they don’t know how to. I would not know how to, you know, if I had to write a paper when I was talking, you know, back thirty years ago. It's stressful. So not all the schools, not all the students have the same tools to succeed. Especially in public schools. So it’s important to take your education seriously, and unfortunately a lot of students, they don't. They take it for granted, they just want to use space but they aren’t looking about the future. In college, I know that if you are around people that want to help you can succeed easily. Like I felt--Even though my language was limited--I felt that, again, international students that they were in the same boat that I was, they were encouraging me to succeed. And I remember that. The problem is sometimes--I’m just going to give you an example. I knew of a lady that her son wanted to be a doctor. And she got a full ride to go to UNC Chapel Hill. And he went there very excited about it, and within a semester he came back defeated. And I don’t know all the details, but he came back with depression. And he felt that he was not welcome. He felt that he did not know where to go. And that’s what happens when you don’t have a core group of friends, or meet friends that can help you, you know, try it and know that you can do it. That happens quite a bit and quite more often, you know, that's why we see all these shootings. Those people are either mad or they’re depressed or they’re not welcome, and those things that are happening here in the United States it's a shame. Because, you know, not even in Mexico I remember somebody shooting a student, you know a student shooting their peers. Because there’s always some sort of--I mean there's frivolity and everything--but the worst that could happen is just, you know, fighting themselves. Like men. [laughs].
SL: Right.
ML: But not with a gun, not with a gun. But anyway. I don’t know if I'm answering your question but that’s what I see. [00:56:06] Right now, the opportunities that you can travel abroad and go learn from other places, come back and still get credits, that’s unbelievable. Unbelievable. I wish I had that opportunity when I was in college because that’s what I wanted to do. To come in a safe environment and come back to my home, but I didn’t know how. But now that people, and that’s what, we’ve been encouraging to do that to Jessica, to Robbie, to you, to go to another country and meet other people and come back and have more life experience that will open up the doors. Definitely coming here opened up this door for me, to work and you know through trial and effort find the right job for me. In my case, we haven't talked about that part yet, but in my case even though I have a food engineering degree and I wanted to use it for good, the language barrier limited it in the beginning. And then I saw a need here--eventually after trying different jobs--I did work in a plant here locally in a food beverage plant locally, but I felt like I was more in a prison after a while because it was just confined in an environment that was very routine [laughs].
SL: Yeah, that makes sense.
ML: It wasn't until I got into real estate that it’s very challenging career. Very fulfilling because you’re helping people get their homes, helping them with the most important decision they can make financially. You know the most biggest financial decision that they can make. But there's so many opportunities for people here for homeownership. So I've been helping the Hispanics to get their home and have some sort of stability. And open up opportunities for them.
SL: Yeah.
ML: And of course in real estate, as a realtor, completely the rules change, the contracts change everything change, so--the technology has changed, to sell real estate--so it’s very challenging. There’s not a routine, you know, that I can’t handle the routine.
SL: That makes sense.
ML: I need variety, I need contact with people. So that’s why I chose that career eventually, you know, because I saw that there was a big need for people to buy homes. And the way it came to me this opportunity was because first I started selling satellite dishes, and they didn't own their houses. And when I got into real estate I could sell them both the land and the satellite. And I did that for a while, you know for a couple of years or so. But now it’s not necessary. I have clients that they are investors now, clients that are first-time home buyers, clients that they need to sell their home because they have other transitions in their lives. But yeah, the real estate has been able to open up doors for other people and me too because I’ve met some wonderful realtors, wonderful people, and wonderful, you know all different types of people that are moving to Asheville. New friends and old friends. And it’s a great career, a great career for me.
SL: Yeah.
ML: In this case, it's going to allow me to retire soon. Hopefully.
SL: Yeah! [laughs] So I just have one last question, and it’s do you think that the experience-- the challenges you faced when you were at Clemson University and things like that and places like that, do you think the challenges you faced then are similar, or different, or at all changed from the ones that people or students who are originally born in another country, like Mexico or Central America--or anywhere in Latin America--do you think that the challenges you had are different from the ones they have today?
ML [1:01:00]: Well I think they are--there’s always going to be great challenges for everybody. There’s always going to be, you know anytime you change your environment to a new environment there’s always going to be challenges. It’s what you do about it, how do you react to it? That’s why you have to have a good core, core friends or family that can help you when you’re feeling down. I always encourage, you know being a man of faith, I always encourage somebody who goes to a university to be surrounded by, you know, by students that they go to church and they have the same faith. Because they are going to help you to succeed. You can't succeed by yourself, never. Never. You always need other people. Good people that can help you succeed, and could be a good teacher, good professor, good, older student. I think that’s very important not to stereotype that, you know, a lot of times you feel like “Okay I’m in this level, I can only relate to these people because they’re on the same level.” There’s always learning experience from older people and from younger people, the thing is that are we open to listening to those, to their experience?
SL: Yeah.
ML: So you don’t fail. Like I’m thinking about this kid that he didn't make it when he had all these opportunities, it’s because he didn’t have that core, you know, group of friends, or the family who was not able to listen to his needs, and figure out. And it's hard to give--as an immigrant it’s hard to give advice especially if you never been in college. You don’t know what college is like here in the United States.
SL: Right.
ML: You know it’s um, very simple. The way I learned--in engineering you just it's a lot of mathematic courses. And I was bombarded with all the other courses all the way to calculus and different courses. Anyway. The way I learned it in Spanish is different when I remember you know Robbie or Daniel, seeing them studying it was just completely different. I mean the results are the same, the solutions are the same, but the way they teach you is different. So as a parent how can you teach or help somebody study when the language and the technique is different?
SL: Yeah.
ML: You can’t. So there’s always more limitation for us to help our children in another, when you move to another language. Another country. You know, it’s hard. But it’s not impossible. If you have the dream to do it, you know you do it. Just like I, I didn’t give up. [laughs].
SL: Yeah [Laughter]. Yeah, awesome. Well that was the last question I have, but is there anything you want to add or contribute before we finish the interview?
ML [1:04:39]: Well, to any student at the university, just to take advantage of it. Everything you do there is going to reflect in the future. So make good decisions, treat others the way you want to be treated, and it doesn't--we all have different types of intelligences, and unfortunately in this, you know in this society that we have, this western culture that we have, we give a lot of weight to the intelligence of, you know, that has to do with grammar--well not grammar--but we measure what we can in just one part of intelligence, which is academic. But there's other intelligence that we need to develop. And we need to just accept each other and learn from each other to do good for you and for others. Always, you know, you learn and then you share. You learn and then you share what you learn. And put it in good use, not in bad use. You know?
SL: Yeah, right. Cool. Well thank you again for your time in doing the interview.
ML: Sure. I think I--we went in different directions but I’m glad that you guys are doing this project so I can help others to understand and help, you know, other students to see the perspective of people that they are not from, they were not born in this area, they came from other countries.
SL: Right.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[01:06:39]
Transcriber: Sophia Luna
Interview Date: March 31, 2023
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:00]
[START OF RECORDING]
Sophia Luna [00:00:04]: Okay. It's 9:26 in the morning on March thirty first--March 31, 2023, and I am on a Zoom call joined by Martin Luna in his home in Asheville, North Carolina. So, can you describe--.
Martin Luna: Hey.
SL: A little bit about where you're from and what your life was like there?
ML [00:00:26]: Well, I was born in La Barca, which is a little town in Jalisco, close to Guadalajara. But, but I, growing up in Mexico, I kind of grew up in different cities because my dad worked for a bank and he was promoted, or he was tired of working in a place, so he used to move around. So, I lived in a lot of different cities, you know, in Sonora, in Mexico City, Guadalajara, Puebla, Querétaro, Toluca. So all those towns, some of them big towns, big cities, other ones, small--well, they were all cities--made me appreciate my countryside, and also learn to, to move around. So I was very close to my family because we were like, I have three brothers, four brothers and one sister. So we did a lot of things together growing up. So I was, you know, very family oriented, very, you know, driven, you know. [00:01:51] And I was one of the first ones to go to a private middle school and high school and then private college. My other siblings, they just went to state college. So it made a difference, you know, for me. It was very academic oriented, so I was striving to do my best in elementary school, middle school, high school. My parents never pressed me to study. They never pressed us to, you know, they just kind of coached us to do our best. But they never pressed us as far as academically. So it was more like my inner side motivation to always, you know, do what I can and do my best and learn as much as I could.
SL: Yeah. So where were you living when you started those private schools that you mentioned in Mexico?
ML [00:02:51]: We moved from Guadalajara to Mexico City, so I had to drive, I had to travel on the bus by myself. I was, I don't know, I was, I was probably you know, I was coming out of elementary school. So my mom took me to a bus and then I had to travel all the way to Mexico City because my dad was already working in the bank in Mexico City. And I remember when I got to the bus station, I was like, I started walking, following the people, and it was like a sea of people that I didn't know, and being so petite, you know, so I was petite. I was, I was one of the first one or the second one. Out of sixty people I was the shortest one. Anyway, I was very intimidated by that. But then finally I saw a smiling face and I recognized my dad, and I was like, “Oh, [Laugher] thank God he's there.” But yeah, so and I remember going to that middle school, you know, there's of course there's no school buses in Mexico. So I had to take public transportation, and mom raising four children back then, it was, always to do everything on my own and walk, you know, a couple of blocks and take the public bus. And sometimes it was so crowded [laughs].
SL: Yeah.
ML: That I had to, I had to just grab--. [Audio briefly cuts out due to internet connectivity issues]. Until people move up and then I could, you know, crawl up to the to the safer area. Never, never a seat because there’s always crowded. [laughs]
SL: And so when you when you started at that different school, like did you notice did you notice that it was different from the public school that you had gone to before or that your siblings were going to at the time or?
ML [00:04:46]: Of course. Of course, yeah. So, it was like night and day. You know, we only had one teacher for the whole elementary school for the [inaudible]. And there was kind of a very, you know, unformal informal but here it was very structured. Have like five or six classes every day. And all of them, you know, always pushing for doing our best. And also in this particular school it was just men. So we were just men just children. You know, middle schoolers. There was no female students. And it was run by an organization that was, you know, Catholic. Hermanos Maristas. So Maurice Brotherhood. So it was very prestigious and very difficult to get in because a lot of people wanted to study there, because of the formation, you know, academic formation.
SL: Yeah. So then how did it come about between you and your parents or your family that you decided to go to that prestigious school? Did you decide or was it--.
ML: I lost you. [laughs].
SL: Your parents, or you made the decision--.
ML: I lost you. I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything repeat that question, please?
SL: Oh, so when you when you mentioned that you were the only one of your siblings to go to this private school. So was that your decision or was that a decision that your parents sought out for you?
ML: Okay. I only heard my decision or my parents' decision. We having bad communication right now, so I only heard that. So, no, it was kind of. [00:06:47] My mom was kind of looking around, where should I go? And of course, he had relatives that they were in that organization, you know, in that brotherhood. So she kind of reached out to them to see if I could get in. But actually it was more academically their decision. That it was better. And of course, it was going to be, there was a cost, there was a tuition, of course. So they decided it was better for my education.
SL: Okay. And so then that was middle and high school. And so then moving, fast forwarding a bit, can you describe what your experience was like after high school and choosing to pursue higher education, whether that be in Mexico or whether when you decided to or if you decided to move to the United States?
ML: Okay. So in that particular school I met a lot of people, made friends and so forth. Some of them had the opportunity to travel to the United States. So the culture back then, for me, it was like I like a lot of American music and, you know, see TV programming and so forth; Of course dubbed in Spanish. But I was also taking English classes, you know, since middle school. I think it was more high school. In high school, I started taking English classes. So that opened up a little bit more of a desire to come to the United States in high school and actually I had a friend that was able to travel and do an exchange student. And then when he came back, he was like us, you know, really, really talking really. It was a great experience for him. So that kind of put the seed of me trying to do that. And I tried to. My dad, my dad at some point sent me to the border because he had an uncle, and I because I had really good grades that was my reward. He couldn't send me to; He didn’t know anybody to send me, you know, to the United States, but he knew somebody at the border. So I ended up going to a, you know, summer course of English, but it was in the Mexican side. So it made a big difference because you knew that you were like learning the structure, the grammar. But we were not practicing it because we were in Mexico. [laughs]. So it was an experience. It was really hot. So I was at right at the border of Matamoros. [00:09:39] But anyway, my transition to college was very interesting because I wanted to move to. I never liked Mexico City. I mean, I was safe and, you know, adapted, but I didn't like the fact that there was very little sun, very dark, a lot of traffic, some sort of crime. Anyway, because we traveled so many places there were other cities that were beautiful and that felt really good. So my dad got another job in Puebla and he was moving the whole family to Puebla. Two of my brothers were already in college, so they couldn't move. So they, they, they were going to stay in Mexico City. I wanted to move to Guadalajara, but my parents said no. Because they couldn't afford to split the family in three ways. So I had to follow suit. But there was like five or six universities in Puebla. And I chose the best and the most expensive one.
SL: [Laughter].
ML: And that kind of my parents, they did the effort to send me to the Universidad de las Americas Puebla, which is between Puebla and Cholula, and it's a very prestigious university. It's actually back then was the only one, or one of the few ones recognized by the Southern Association of the Board of Colleges in the United States. So that was a major thing back then. But anyway, I was not thinking about moving to the United States at all. I was just going over there to learn and I chose an engineering degree, which was a field that very few people; It was kind of a new career. It was food engineering. Like chemical engineering specializing in food. And I excelled there. I was one of the few students that finished the course. We started like thirty, thirty-seven students. And in Mexico to study to get a degree in college it's always five years.
SL: Right.
ML: Not four. So, so, so it was five years. And back then out of thirty-seven students from my generation, there were three that we finished. And also there were like three others that we catch [caught] up that they were behind. So we were like six or seven. I graduated in 1985.
SL: Okay.
ML: And at that time I also took English courses and I met all American people that were studying over there. So I had some connections, you know, with people from the United States. Of course, I was immersed in the city, so I had to take two buses to go to the college, you know, from where I live to go to the center of the city and then take another bus to go to Cholula. And anyway, I met a lot of people, made a lot of friends. And I was actually, like, my fourth year, I got into-- I was the president of my career in food engineering. And in that I met some people, some presidents of other areas. You know, there was like, I don't know, like sixteen different fields, careers. So we used to get together and do things, you know, to promote the university or for the good of everybody. [00:13:26] And I met a guy who told me about this excellent program that he went to and basically that it was in Black Mountain, North Carolina. And that basically if you were accepted they will give you a visa, a work study visa, and give you room and board and you could work there during the summer time. And so that was that became a dream for me to go once he told me about it.
SL: Yeah.
ML: That kind of started changing my life a little bit [laughs].
SL: Right. So, can you describe a little bit the process of what applying for this program in Black Mountain was like and how long that took, or just your general, like, experience applying for that program?
ML: Well, it was kind of difficult to get in because when he told me about it and I applied, he told me like in in April. In April, something like that, that's when I learned about this. So I applied immediately. And of course they sent me a letter saying they rejected me because they said it's already, you know, we already have the staff. You know, the American people plan ahead. So it was not like, hey, you can come now [laughs].
SL: Right [laughs].
ML: Last minute, last minute. But back then, I didn't know. I didn't know. I just started the process and I was intimidated because I had to fill out the form in English and I didn't know who to ask. So I did it on my own. My parents never speak English, so, um, and I didn't. I was kind of a solo person. I never asked for advice or I didn't know who to ask, you know, basically. But anyway, I was rejected. And then what I did is I went ahead and reapplied in November and I sent you know, they asked me for three reference letters. So I got my letters, I got everything. And then I got accepted. And then I got the letter. It was one of my happiest moments in my life because I knew that it was going to be something that I really wanted to try not knowing how it was going to be. But I just wanted to try, and to have that experience of being in another country.
ML: My parents, you know, tried to send me. But it was very expensive, really. So, this was like a big accomplishment for me. And that happened right after I graduated from college, you know. My dad did a big celebration. We got a lot of family gathering to celebrate my accomplishment. And then a few days later, I had to take a bus and come to the United States. Since I have like certain deadline to arrive, I was supposed to take a bus right after my graduation. But it was the party and we had so many family at home that one of my uncles said: “Well, don't worry about going on bus. I'll fly you in.”
SL: Oh, okay.
ML: So he was hoping to fly me all the way to here. But when he started checking on the prices and everything, he realized how expensive it was.
SL: [Laughter]
ML: To fly from Puebla or from Mexico City to Asheville. He went ahead and just flew me to Matamoros.
SL: Okay.
ML: And then from there I took the bus, which was fine. It was fine with me because I was going to do the whole, whole tour in a bus. I already had my ticket anyway. And back then it was like for fifty dollars, you could buy a ticket and you could go anywhere in the United States for, for, you know, seven days. You could travel all over the place with fifty dollars during seven days.
SL: Interesting. Okay. Can you remember what it was like when you first arrived or what your first impressions were of Black Mountain, and just what your general experience was, I guess in the first weeks and months of you living there and what you were doing in the program, too.
ML: [00:17:35] Sure. Well, I got really welcomed. I was very welcomed. They, you know, they sent somebody to pick me up in a band. Well, arriving, of course, traveling in a bus, I was like looking at a lot of terrains and a lot of time to think about different things. But I remember, you know, from seeing different sceneries. And then once we started getting to Hendersonville, I started seeing a lot of green and a lot of green. Never seen so much green during the summertime. You know, like everywhere. So I was very, very impressed with the beauty of the mountains and the beauty of the forest. So when this guy picked me up, took me over there, I was kind of late because I kind of took a detour. I got like two days late. I didn't got to the orientation. I got there like two days after because I took a detour to go to Orlando and meet some family member and then came back. I was just because I have that advantage of the--. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: You could travel right for free.
SL: Right. [laughs]
ML: Well, as long as wherever you want to go. I went to Orlando, but I didn't visit anything. I was just. It was just wasting time, really, because I didn't do anything [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: But anyway. I was really welcome. Everybody was friendly. Everybody was very, you know, young. Most of the people were younger than me, but they were very, very friendly. Because most of the staff was college. So they were in college, or some of them they were in Master’s, but we were kind of similar age. And the center was very organized. And, you know, to make the experience even better. And some of the jobs were kind of tedious. They rotate every three weeks. So every three weeks you change. Two or three weeks, you change to a different department. So making it fun. And of course, every time you--[Audio briefly cuts out due to internet connectivity issues].
SL: You were mentioning how at the place you worked, they changed every three weeks to keep things interesting for the people working there.
ML: Yes. Yes, and so I felt very welcome. This YMCA is one of the largest facilities in the southern area, the southern region. It is owned by ten different states around North Carolina. It’s a conference center. So they bring people or different groups through the week or for the weekend to have a conference. So some of them were small, like two hundred people, other ones were like fifteen hundred people. So we were about maybe, let’s see, I’m trying to remember. We were twenty men and maybe thirty or forty women plus the management people. And we were, you know, in different places on the campus. It’s a huge campus. So every week we had to change everything.
SL: Right.
ML: At the conference they were coming to learn a lot of different things so we had to set the whole campus to their needs. And then, so they’ve been doing this since 1908. You know the center was founded back then. So through the years it's been very well organized, there's a lot of brotherhood, there's a lot of history and it's very well organized. So when I came I was very impressed that everything was so organized and we had fun and also played and made it very interesting. So, through the whole two and a half month experience every weekend we had themed parties. New year’s, Christmas in July, international night, a talent show, different things--Hawaiian party--different activities that kept us engaged and kept us having fun, and made the work kind of easy.
SL: Yeah.
ML: And there were always opportunities. So I took one opportunity myself and I noticed that the people that work less were the lifeguards [laughs].
SL: [Laughter].
ML: So I find out how I can become a lifeguard [laughs].
SL: [Laughter].
ML: So I took the class, and I got my certificate of lifeguard. So I was able to work, you know, and that was the most fun thing to do because you just clean, give a little bit of maintenance to the pool, and just sit down and see people and enjoy the sun [laughs].
SL: [Laughs]. Right.
ML: And get paid without having to clean or having to do a lot of work [laughs].
SL: That's funny. So being, you mentioned that you moved, you started this program right after finishing college and your engineering degree. So when you were living in Black Mountain and in North Carolina were you aware of any, you know, educational opportunities that interested you? Or were you wanting to continue your education in the United States? What was your sense of the educational sphere of North Carolina?
ML [00:23:47]: Well, for me, back then my priority was to feel fluent in the language. And I knew that my English was very very limited. I remember when I put in my application that I speak 80 percent of English. I knew 80 percent. But I realized I didn’t know. I mean I knew the grammar and the structure but I didn’t know how to speak. You know. So to me that was kind of an obstacle, a big obstacle. So I did want to learn the language. My first--I knew that the program was going to finish so I tried to figure out how to stay more. And I knew that the assembly was the YMCA Blue Ridge Assembly, so the assembly was hiring people to stay a little bit longer. And I wanted to stay. And I expressed my interest of staying, but they already hired other people that they had in mind. So I didn’t, I was not accepted. But when I talked to one of the executes about my desire to stay he kind of hooked me up with another executive from another town and said “Hey, this guy wants to stay as an exchange student.” You know, so he offered me, the gentleman offered me an opportunity to live in his home so I could continue with this experience and continue with learning the language. So I lived like two months with them in their home. And then when my visa expired I had to go back to Mexico.
SL: Right.
ML: And that was something that I had to do it on my own again. Nobody told me “Hey, you can stay.” I said “Well my visa will expire at the end of October, so I have to go back to my family.” And I did. So when I went back to Mexico, in my mind, I was like “Oh, that was a great experience, I feel better about the language, but I want to work on my field.” So I went to the town that I wanted to live, which was Guadalajara, and started looking for all the industries to find work and just start interviewing by myself. Talking to people saying “Hey, I just graduated from the university, I can help you.” I started offering my services. Because most people, they didn't know what food engineering could do in their industry. Remember I kind of went to like six or sevent interviews that I introduced myself to see if they were hiring and that I was available.
SL: Right. Right. So, did anything--.
ML: And then--.
SL: Go ahead.
ML: And then what happened was I went back to my parents to celebrate Christmas and New Year’s, and when I was back in Puebla, because I spent maybe a month exploring job opportunities in Mexico. A month, a month and a half and I was staying with relatives. Then I went to Puebla to see my parents, finally. [00:27:14] When I was there I got a phone call that changed my whole life. Because one of the executives called me and said “Hey, Martin, we really enjoyed your work ethic and we really would like for you to come back next year, would you like to do that?” And since I had a wonderful experience I said “Yes, of course!” So that phone call, without consulting anybody, I was like “Wow! That's great! I can go back!” Changed my whole life because then I was not pursue--I got distracted and was not pursuing my professional career. I kind of put that on the side and said “Well, I just need to work part time, you know, in another area or do something while I wait until I go back to United States.”
SL: Okay.
ML: So that’s what I did. I got a temporary job at the beach and I was using my English as I was working in a Japanese restaurant [laughs]. In a Japanese restaurant I was hired there. And I worked there for a while but it was hard to be on my own, to be honest. I was not used to being on my own, living by myself and making decisions by myself because we were always in a group. So YMCA was great because I had a brotherhood, a family, and I didn't have to worry about cleaning, cooking, or basic things. You know, so it was learning. But when I was in this beach, I was staying with some people first, but then, you know, they didn’t treat you as nice as the United States [laughs].
SL: Right.
ML: So it was a lot of decisions of: “How I'm going to get to my job? Where am I going to be living? Where am I going to stay?” And the accommodations they gave me were not the greatest ones. But anyway, I didn’t last too long there. When I got tired and just flew to Mexico City and went back to my parents and just waited until my opportunity to go back to the United States came.
SL: Right. And so what was your second experience like in the United States, and what did you do after the Blue Ridge Assembly?
ML: Sure. So it was even better, started meeting people again and then said “Well, I would like to stay here longer. How can I stay longer?” And it was three choices I had: One was, a friend from Nigeria says “Well you can join the army, they can definitely probably let you stay.” The other one was going back to college, and the third one was, you know, well if you get married you could probably stay also.
SL: Right.
ML [00:30:23]: But in my mind, it was more like “Well why don't I try to go back to college and try to get a Masters?” I knew several people from the University of Americas who had done that in different cities. In different countries. Some of them went to Germany, other ones went to Spain, and some to the United States. I knew it was going to be costly so I started to explore that. So I took some trips, I went to [pause] one lady lived in Raleigh so we went to the, I visited the university of, State University in North Carolina. And I didn’t know anything about Clemson, but there was some people from Blue Ridge Assembly that they were the directors of the YMCA in Clemson, and one of them offered me, opened up some opportunities there. So I kind of liked that, and started talking to the directors in Clemson and they said “Yeah, you can come here and help you.” In other words, there were some doors that started to open for me.
SL: Right
ML: So, I went and applied to Clemson. I got a place to stay, and they let me stay there. I paid for my room, for my board. For my food [laughs].
SL: Right
ML: The room was free, my food I paid for it. And then it was an opportunity to decide what I was going to do. And I visited the food science department. And because they knew I had the degree already in that field, they gave me a job.
SL: Right.
ML: So, the things were happening for me. But legally, I was there physically but as far as--how do you say--the credits, getting the credits, I was not admitted officially. I was kind of exploring what I was going to do, and I realized I needed to take more English classes. Because I felt that my English was really bad. The science I already knew, in Spanish.
SL: Right.
ML: And in English. But I was more interested in: What can I do with my field? How can I take what I know to use it in Mexico? And I realized that first I needed to improve my English, which was a big task for me.
SL: Right.
ML: You know, it was difficult. It was difficult because, again, I was by myself but I needed to master that so I could function. Like I am functioning right now.
SL: Right, right. So you hinted a little bit at it, but how did you feel like your degree from the University of the Americas…How did you feel like it translated to the United States and to Clemson specifically? In your opinion?
ML [00:33:50]: Well, it was a good opportunity for me to be there because people were very open, people respect me, you know, the doctors that I talked to. There was Dr. Moore, who was the permanent doctor in food industry and food science. He was kind of my mentor. He took me in, he gave me opportunity to work in the laboratory and start organizing everything there. And pretty much, I was probably, he wanted me to work on research but he knew that I needed time to adjust.
SL: Right.
ML: So, again, the sky was the limit there. We went to a lot of, well, you know being part of the food science group I met several students from other countries. I remember there was an assistant to Dr. Moore who was working on his PhD too, or Masters, that he kind of took me under his wing and he was helping me to fill out the forms which I was very intimidated. And helped me to get into the program, and also, um, so there was a lot of people very welcome. They went through my shoes, came before me, and they were studying and we went to several food events. I remember going to Atlanta to meet Dr. Labuza. Dr. Labuza was very famous for his research in water activity, you know, something that was, back then, really one of the fields that I remember. There are, I mean, so many fields in food industry. But anyway, I was meeting famous people that, before, it was just on a paper.
SL: Right.
ML: That I read about their articles on paper or on books, and I was very, you know, impressed meeting those people in person. And talk to them. Anyway, so everything was going well, and I thought it was a good opportunity for me. [00:36:17] But I had two tragedies that changed my life [laughs]. One, and it was I don’t know, just destiny. But basically, I needed to take two tests for being the next semester enrolled officially. One was the TOEFL. You know, the test for English as a second language proficiency. It’s a proficiency test to tell the university that if you can do it. That your English is good. And the other one is the GRE, I think. Graduate Record Examinate. The GRE. Which was a little bit more tougher that all the American people needed to take. The first one is just for foreign students. The second one was for all, you know, anybody that wanted to do a graduate study. So, the first one you know, unfortunately it was not offered on campus. It was in another city which was Greenville. So I needed to travel over there. And I didn’t know, you know it was on a Saturday morning. So talking to my people that I knew, there was another Chinese student that was going to take it. And I learned through my supervisor that says “This person needs to take it.” So I talked to him and I asked him if he could take me to the place, to Greenville, and he said “Yes, I’ll take you.” And then we set up a place and a time to meet. And then the second one was going to be offered there in the college, so I was already enrolled to take it there.
So I think it was like the end of October, or around October. It was around October when I took the test, I was supposed to meet this Chinese student to take the test. And I remember I got up in the morning early, and it was raining, it was pouring rain and everything. And I was out there in the corner where we were supposed to meet, and it was dark, and I was there for almost forty-five minutes and he didn’t show up. And I stayed there and stayed there and I never saw it, he never came back to pick me up. He probably did, but because of the language barrier maybe he didn’t know where I was and maybe he--I don't know. I don’t know what happened but he never showed up. And I was supposed to be there at 9, but by 8:30 I started crying and crying because, you know, that was very important for me to be in there. So I went to see other friends, and they didn’t have cars, so they couldn’t do anything. And they said “Don’t worry about it, don't worry about it,” but I felt, like, defeated because I wasn’t going to get into the next semester enrollment. And so, from then I started to feel, you know, and I didn't know back then, but I started to feel depressed because I didn’t know what to do. When I took the second test, I was encouraging to do it but when I took it I also felt defeated because it was really really difficult [laughs].
SL: [Laughs] Yeah, the GRE is…
ML [00:39:46]: It was very difficult, and I felt like a failure. Like “I failed, so what am I going to do? How am I going to get into the official Master’s degree?” And all this is the pressure that I knew it was costing me money, and I knew that my parents could not afford to send me to college, so kind of, I got into a depression stage.
SL: Yeah.
ML: I knew Christine, and Christine wanted to help me out and she always wanted to say “Well, you know maybe college is not for you. Maybe you can come to Asheville, come back to Asheville, and you can find a job here in Asheville and do something else.” And I felt like yes, that would be an option, but I really wanted to--I was kind of feeling like the opportunity to study and be in college for, was going to be much better. So I got into a depression. And back then I didn’t, never had depression before, nobody knew about it in my family. I got really depressed so I went back to Mexico defeated.
ML: And when I got back to Mexico, unfortunately my parents were transitioning from one, from Puebla to Guadalajara and the situation, the dynamics were not really good. They were renting a small place that was too small for the family, so it was very, it added more stress. In a good note, by then there was like, already, job opportunities for me and I got into a job as a food engineer and I worked in the Sabrita plant. But I was comparing that job with what I lived here in the United States and the freedom and what I was doing, it was like night and day. Even though I had a job there now I was not happy. My heart was in United States, my heart was in this area of North Carolina, And I wanted to come back. So I decided to come back one more time, so I didn’t gave up. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter] Yeah, right! So what was that like? Was that the last time you came, when you decided you know like you said not to give up, or how did that come about and what happened after that?
ML: Well, you know, through the whole time when I was in Clemson I was dating Christine, and she used to come visit me on weekends or every other weekend when she could. So we, you know, I kind of started being interested in her because she was always there for me, you know. Actually she took me from The Assembly to Clemson, and then when she knew where I was then she was coming every other week or every week. We had fun events, I remember one time we, you know, both being Catholics, the priest from the parish where I was staying in Clemson, he was doing outreach to migrant workers in another place called Walhalla. So I told him that I played the guitar, and he says: “Well why don’t you come over to celebrate mass on the field?” And I did the first time, and I realized that I needed music so the next time I brought my guitar and make it more fun. And Christine went one time with me to those outreach, going to visit the migrants and bringing the word of God on their own homes. You know, they were living in trailers in the middle of the mobile home park we celebrate mass and I was playing the guitar. So that was really really nice.
SL: Yeah
ML: Anyways, um, she was, you know, always offering me “Come back to my home.” So we continued to write letters when I was in Mexico defeated. So she said “Come back here, you can find a job, we can. There’s opportunities here.” So she was always having faith in me that my dream could come true.
SL: Yeah.
ML [00:44:35]: So I came back the third time and I actually came back with another friend. And then we wanted to plan our wedding but, kind of, things moved quickly and we got married.
SL: Right.
ML: [Laughter].
SL: And what year was it when--what year was it that you came back the third time, and then were married?
ML: Eighty-seven. 1987.
SL: Okay.
ML: 1987.
SL: And just for the sake of anyone listening to this interview in the future, can you describe who Christine is and how you met her for the first time?
ML: [Laughter]
SL: Just for context.
ML: Well Christine is my wife, my companion for thirty-five years. So she’s my wife. We met in 1986 in my second summer here. Not--she didn’t work in our field, it just happened. It was like, God put us together, to be honest, you know? I’m a very strong believer, and back in Mexico I always was praying for God for the right person to meet. And basically, through all this events that happened in my life, the way we met it was kind of a coincidence. Because she never went--I think that was the only time she went from Weaverville to Black Mountain, where I was. But I was working at the YMCA but we met in a local bar back then it was called the Town Pump… Town Pump? And we went there with my friends, from Mexico, on a night that they said “Hey let's go down to Black Mountain.” So I did. It was a group of five people, you know, boys and girls. And she came too, out of coincidence, because she didn’t planned to be there at all but one of her friends went and got her out of her job to go--she didn’t want to go by herself because her boyfriend, this girl’s boyfriend--her name is Lisa--and Lisa’s boyfriend was playing in a band, and he was playing in this particular place on that night. So she went and talked to the boss and said “Hey, can you let her come tonight?” And the boss did, Mr. Boyd, I remember his name, Mr. Boyd did let her out earlier. So they went there, and I was there with my friends, and then I remember my friend Paco said “Hey, there’s a lady outside that speaks Spanish. There’s two ladies out there that speak Spanish, let’s go meet them.” So I went outside, and actually Lisa, it was, she didn’t speak Spanish. She’s an American. [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: And Lisa, I mean Christine, was both English and Spanish. So we started talking in Spanish and so forth. So we connected and we invited them to come back the next day for another event at The Assembly. Which was the talent show, which was open to anybody. And so we were hoping that both of them were going to come but in the end Christine just showed up. And from then, we kind of started developing a relationship.
SL: Right.
ML: And I remember vividly one time when I called her, she said “Hey”--her mom answered the phone--she said “Hey, would you like to come visit us?” and she say, “You know, we’d like you to come have dinner with us because we’re going to have steak.” and I said “Yes!” And you know the ironic thing is that that night we were going to have steak, too, at The Assembly.
SL: Oh!
ML: That night, but I said yes because I wanted to be out of The Assembly, I wanted to meet other people. So, I went and met her family, and there were some relatives visiting and so forth. But anyway, in the end it just happened that the food was delicious. Country food, it was potatoes and green beans and, and flavors that I never had. Well I tasted them at The Assembly but it was homemade, not bulk [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]. Yeah, that makes sense.
ML: Not bulk recipes.
SL: That difference matters, right.
ML: So I was like “Wow!” And I said to Christine's mom, “Hey, wow you’re a great cook, congratulations!” By the way, she’s from Colombia, and so I felt like I was at home. And she said, “No, no I didn't do the cooking. Christine did.” And I was like “Wow! Really?” [laughs].
SL: [Laughter]
ML: And I was really surprised because being so young--I think back then I was twenty-two, she was nineteen--I was like “Wow!”
SL: Yeah.
ML: “Congratulations, you really know how to cook.” Because it was a great meal. A great meal. So all those little things started to, you know, be in my mind. That we connected and that we, you know, eventually got married.
SL: Right, yeah. So, fast forwarding, or kind of switching like fast forwarding or looking to wrap up. After your third time coming to the states, like you describe and kind of coming back from that, as you put it: Trying one more time and not giving up and getting married to Christine--which is all well over I guess twenty years ago--when you think about your life now, I guess how do you view education, or educational experiences that maybe even some of your kids have had, how do you view them in light of the ones you had both in Mexico and the United States?
ML: Well, um, okay so could you rephrase that question?
SL: Yeah. So, when you think about education now like in 2023 in the United States, as you've been living here several years--several decades--how do you think education compares now than it did in the past, when you were part of education and part of the education system?
ML [00:51:28]: Sure. Well, through technology and through the new way of opportunities that students have, the world is shrinking quite a bit. There is more opportunities for new students, definitely. I mean I realize that people that really like school or they like to do something different, they kind of cling to their friends--in other words, there's a dynamic between teachers and students.
ML: You know, there’s a lot of students who are forced to go to school. There’s other students that love to go to school. And teachers kind of guide those students, well try to guide everybody, to do their best but not everybody has that call and not everybody is smart academically. [Clears throat]. The main thing here that I see is that the people that have, from experience, sometimes people have the opportunity to go to college and they have these scholarships and they want to succeed in college, but when they get there they are shocked because it’s not like a public school. Because they know they have to write important papers and they don’t know how to. I would not know how to, you know, if I had to write a paper when I was talking, you know, back thirty years ago. It's stressful. So not all the schools, not all the students have the same tools to succeed. Especially in public schools. So it’s important to take your education seriously, and unfortunately a lot of students, they don't. They take it for granted, they just want to use space but they aren’t looking about the future. In college, I know that if you are around people that want to help you can succeed easily. Like I felt--Even though my language was limited--I felt that, again, international students that they were in the same boat that I was, they were encouraging me to succeed. And I remember that. The problem is sometimes--I’m just going to give you an example. I knew of a lady that her son wanted to be a doctor. And she got a full ride to go to UNC Chapel Hill. And he went there very excited about it, and within a semester he came back defeated. And I don’t know all the details, but he came back with depression. And he felt that he was not welcome. He felt that he did not know where to go. And that’s what happens when you don’t have a core group of friends, or meet friends that can help you, you know, try it and know that you can do it. That happens quite a bit and quite more often, you know, that's why we see all these shootings. Those people are either mad or they’re depressed or they’re not welcome, and those things that are happening here in the United States it's a shame. Because, you know, not even in Mexico I remember somebody shooting a student, you know a student shooting their peers. Because there’s always some sort of--I mean there's frivolity and everything--but the worst that could happen is just, you know, fighting themselves. Like men. [laughs].
SL: Right.
ML: But not with a gun, not with a gun. But anyway. I don’t know if I'm answering your question but that’s what I see. [00:56:06] Right now, the opportunities that you can travel abroad and go learn from other places, come back and still get credits, that’s unbelievable. Unbelievable. I wish I had that opportunity when I was in college because that’s what I wanted to do. To come in a safe environment and come back to my home, but I didn’t know how. But now that people, and that’s what, we’ve been encouraging to do that to Jessica, to Robbie, to you, to go to another country and meet other people and come back and have more life experience that will open up the doors. Definitely coming here opened up this door for me, to work and you know through trial and effort find the right job for me. In my case, we haven't talked about that part yet, but in my case even though I have a food engineering degree and I wanted to use it for good, the language barrier limited it in the beginning. And then I saw a need here--eventually after trying different jobs--I did work in a plant here locally in a food beverage plant locally, but I felt like I was more in a prison after a while because it was just confined in an environment that was very routine [laughs].
SL: Yeah, that makes sense.
ML: It wasn't until I got into real estate that it’s very challenging career. Very fulfilling because you’re helping people get their homes, helping them with the most important decision they can make financially. You know the most biggest financial decision that they can make. But there's so many opportunities for people here for homeownership. So I've been helping the Hispanics to get their home and have some sort of stability. And open up opportunities for them.
SL: Yeah.
ML: And of course in real estate, as a realtor, completely the rules change, the contracts change everything change, so--the technology has changed, to sell real estate--so it’s very challenging. There’s not a routine, you know, that I can’t handle the routine.
SL: That makes sense.
ML: I need variety, I need contact with people. So that’s why I chose that career eventually, you know, because I saw that there was a big need for people to buy homes. And the way it came to me this opportunity was because first I started selling satellite dishes, and they didn't own their houses. And when I got into real estate I could sell them both the land and the satellite. And I did that for a while, you know for a couple of years or so. But now it’s not necessary. I have clients that they are investors now, clients that are first-time home buyers, clients that they need to sell their home because they have other transitions in their lives. But yeah, the real estate has been able to open up doors for other people and me too because I’ve met some wonderful realtors, wonderful people, and wonderful, you know all different types of people that are moving to Asheville. New friends and old friends. And it’s a great career, a great career for me.
SL: Yeah.
ML: In this case, it's going to allow me to retire soon. Hopefully.
SL: Yeah! [laughs] So I just have one last question, and it’s do you think that the experience-- the challenges you faced when you were at Clemson University and things like that and places like that, do you think the challenges you faced then are similar, or different, or at all changed from the ones that people or students who are originally born in another country, like Mexico or Central America--or anywhere in Latin America--do you think that the challenges you had are different from the ones they have today?
ML [1:01:00]: Well I think they are--there’s always going to be great challenges for everybody. There’s always going to be, you know anytime you change your environment to a new environment there’s always going to be challenges. It’s what you do about it, how do you react to it? That’s why you have to have a good core, core friends or family that can help you when you’re feeling down. I always encourage, you know being a man of faith, I always encourage somebody who goes to a university to be surrounded by, you know, by students that they go to church and they have the same faith. Because they are going to help you to succeed. You can't succeed by yourself, never. Never. You always need other people. Good people that can help you succeed, and could be a good teacher, good professor, good, older student. I think that’s very important not to stereotype that, you know, a lot of times you feel like “Okay I’m in this level, I can only relate to these people because they’re on the same level.” There’s always learning experience from older people and from younger people, the thing is that are we open to listening to those, to their experience?
SL: Yeah.
ML: So you don’t fail. Like I’m thinking about this kid that he didn't make it when he had all these opportunities, it’s because he didn’t have that core, you know, group of friends, or the family who was not able to listen to his needs, and figure out. And it's hard to give--as an immigrant it’s hard to give advice especially if you never been in college. You don’t know what college is like here in the United States.
SL: Right.
ML: You know it’s um, very simple. The way I learned--in engineering you just it's a lot of mathematic courses. And I was bombarded with all the other courses all the way to calculus and different courses. Anyway. The way I learned it in Spanish is different when I remember you know Robbie or Daniel, seeing them studying it was just completely different. I mean the results are the same, the solutions are the same, but the way they teach you is different. So as a parent how can you teach or help somebody study when the language and the technique is different?
SL: Yeah.
ML: You can’t. So there’s always more limitation for us to help our children in another, when you move to another language. Another country. You know, it’s hard. But it’s not impossible. If you have the dream to do it, you know you do it. Just like I, I didn’t give up. [laughs].
SL: Yeah [Laughter]. Yeah, awesome. Well that was the last question I have, but is there anything you want to add or contribute before we finish the interview?
ML [1:04:39]: Well, to any student at the university, just to take advantage of it. Everything you do there is going to reflect in the future. So make good decisions, treat others the way you want to be treated, and it doesn't--we all have different types of intelligences, and unfortunately in this, you know in this society that we have, this western culture that we have, we give a lot of weight to the intelligence of, you know, that has to do with grammar--well not grammar--but we measure what we can in just one part of intelligence, which is academic. But there's other intelligence that we need to develop. And we need to just accept each other and learn from each other to do good for you and for others. Always, you know, you learn and then you share. You learn and then you share what you learn. And put it in good use, not in bad use. You know?
SL: Yeah, right. Cool. Well thank you again for your time in doing the interview.
ML: Sure. I think I--we went in different directions but I’m glad that you guys are doing this project so I can help others to understand and help, you know, other students to see the perspective of people that they are not from, they were not born in this area, they came from other countries.
SL: Right.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[01:06:39]
Transcriber: Sophia Luna
Interview Date: March 31, 2023
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-1015 -- Luna, Martin.
Description
An account of the resource
North Carolina resident Martin Luna recounts his experience moving to the United States from Jalisco, Mexico in 1985 as a recently-graduated food engineering student. Luna arrived to work at the Blue Ridge Assembly in Black Mountain, North Carolina over the summer as an international student worker. Throughout the interview he describes the importance of several interpersonal relationships that shaped his work experience and that created the opportunity for him to attempt to pursue graduate school at Clemson University. He references the language barrier as a recurring challenge in his U.S. education. He also describes the role mental health had in his experiences in the U.S. Luna reflects on his experiences in both Mexico and the U.S.’s education systems, and closes the interview describing the kinds of challenges current Latin American immigrant students face within education systems and how they compare to the ones he experienced.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-31
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29328">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1015_Audio.mp3
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/277bbaf9f0c5204217ba5f906929f0a5.mp3
6d97a0a2ffc55919114ed4c59c3d1128
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/6a6b0fb3276c7a63d24d55687fe07fb1.pdf
163f7556b69f6bafb89ad4fdced7e36b
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1000
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2022-02-10
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Valdez Place, Soraya.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Educators
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1976
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
San Salvador -- San Salvador -- El Salvador
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Hickory -- Catawba County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-89.21692657470703 13.701777458190918),1976,1;POINT(-78.64305877685547 35.77839279174805),2005,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Carlton, Marisa.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Spanish
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Soraya Valdez Place is a Spanish Professor at Lenoir Rhyne University and the Community Outreach Specialist for the Catawba County Library system in Hickory, North Carolina. She is originally from San Salvador, El Salvador and first moved to the United States in 2004. Soraya tells the story of her life and explains what growing up was like for her in El Salvador. She reflects on the struggles she and her family faced and touches on the violence, natural disasters, and the rampant civil war that plagued her country. She shares the story of moving to the United States for the first time and the challenges of learning English and eventually, how she came to live in North Carolina. She also shares her experience of her time in the Peace Corp and serving abroad with her husband. Soraya speaks on the differences between life in North Carolina, specifically Catawba County, and life back in her home of El Salvador. Lastly, she touches on her work in Catawba County as a Spanish professor and a Community Outreach Specialist, serving as a bridge for the Spanish-speaking community. Soraya closes the interview by telling me about the different issues the Latinx community faces in Catawba County and her work to address these issues by creating workshops and classes through the local library system.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Soraya Valdez Place by Marisa Carlton, 10 February 2022, R-1000, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29184
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Citizenship and immigration; Community and social services and programs; Language and communication; Receiving communities; War and violence
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Ok. Hola. Me llamo Marisa Carlton. Hoy es el 10 de febrero 2022. Estoy aquí con Soraya Place. Estamos aquí en su oficina en Lenoir Rhyne University. Ella me va contar un poquito sobre su vida y sus experiencias. Muchas gracias Soraya por estar aquí dispuesta de hacer esta entrevista. Ok. Vamos a comenzar.
Soraya Valdez Place: Ok.
MC: ¿Podemos empezar en – me puede contar un poco de su – el país de donde es usted?
SVP: Mhm.
MC: ¿Y como era el lugar? ¿Como creció? ¿De donde es? ¿Donde nació?
Soraya Valdez Place: Mhm. Ok. Yo soy de San Salvador en El Salvador. Y El Salvador es el país mas chiquitito de todo Centroamérica. Le llaman el pulgarcito de América. También le llaman el valle de las hamacas porque esta todo el tiempo temblando, entonces el país se mueve constantemente. Nací en la capital, pero vivíamos en una cuidad que se llama Soyapango que antes cuando yo estaba creciendo en la cuidad era súper segura. Todos podíamos salir a jugar y eran las nueve o diez de la noche y andábamos en la calle corriendo hasta que los papas nos decían: ¡Ya! ¡Hora de dormir! Pero andábamos en grupos con amigas y muchachos y amigos. Pero, después poco a poco se fue poniendo la cuidad un poco mas peligrosa hasta que Soyapango se convirtió en uno do los barrios mas peligrosos de San Salvador. Y cuando ya no podíamos salir. Las casas pasaban con llave. Y eso fue cuando ya era mas grande. Había que echar llave, todo cerrado. Ventanas cerradas para que nadie pudiera ver que haya adentro. Y los ladrones se metieron muchas veces a mi casa. Entonces, de chiquita tengo excelentes memorias porque la pasamos súper bien. Pero, do ahí aquí íbamos creciendo y la delincuencia iba aumentando y la pasamos mal. Varias veces los ladrones se metieron a mi casa cuando no había nadie. Se robaron todo. Había una vez en que llegaron los ladrones y nos apuntaron con pistolas y metieron toda a la familia en el baño chiquitito. Y se llevaron el carro y en el carro echaron las carteras, las televisiones, cámaras, teléfonos, joyas, dinero, todo lo que pudieron. Y se lo llevaron. Nos dejaron encerados ahí y después salimos y se habían llevado todo. Era la hora de almuerzo. No pudimos ni almorzar porque pensábamos que le habían echado veneno a la comida. Ósea, botamos toda la comida. Nos quedamos sin cinco centavos. Sin carro para salir. Entonces tuvimos que buscar ayuda de amigos. Y bueno así era mi cuidad, pero también nosotros estábamos muy conectados con el campo porque mi abuelita viene de un cantón que se llama Molineros y es en San Vicente en otro departamento. Y viajábamos a Molineros constantemente. Cada fin de semana viaje familiar. Era en que, vamos todos o nadie. Entonces, yo vengo de cinco hermanos. Soy la del medio. Tengo dos hermanos mayores, una hermana menor, un hermano menor y yo estoy en medio. Entonces, todos los domingos, en la mañana para el campo y regresamos a noche y hay, creo que son una de las memorias mas divertidas porque siempre había algo. Una experiencia diferente. Sea algo de carro, o no quedábamos sin gasolina o que vamos almorzar y llegar este pueblito estar con los primos, subiéndonos en los palos, comiendo fruta sin lavarnos las manos. Era, pues era una infancia buenísima.
MC: Si.
SVP: La pasamos súper bien.
MC: ¿Tu cuidad—me puede decir otra vez como se llama?
SVP: Soyapango.
MC: Soyapango.
SVP: Aja.
MC: ¿Y esa cuidad era mas, era cuidad grande? ¿Pequeño?
SVP: Si.
MC: O, era cerca de–¿
SVP: -- de San Salvador. Mhm. So, allá en El Salvador nadie tiene carro. Si tenemos carro pero un carro familiar. No es que cada quien tiene su carro entonces en carro podríamos llegar al centro, a la capital en que, veinte minutos.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Treinta minutos. Pero en bus iba tardar 45 minutos, una hora. Mas la trabazón que decimos, o el trafico. ¿Una hora y media depende no? Pero muy cerca la capital.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Mhm.
MC: Y, cuando usted estaba contando de la delincuencia que eso-- ¿cuándo paso eso? ¿Cuantos anos tenias que tu notaste un cambio? ¿Como que año o cuantos años tenias cuando tu notaste eso?
SVP: Yo pienso que cuando ya tenia como 14, 15 años. Maybe. O tal vez desde los 17. Hasta que me fui de esa colonia. De ese lugar hasta, desde los 17 hasta los 28 años. Fueron todos eso años desde que vivíamos con miedo. Todo el tiempo. Porque, las maras crecieron. Las pandillas o las maras empezaron a crecer. Había mucha delincuencia. Vivíamos mas con temor después de mis 15 a 17 años hasta que me fui a los 28 años.
MC: Claro. ¿Y eso como era para ti? ¿Si me puedes contar, ibas a la escuela? Me imagino, ¿verdad?
SVP: Mhm. Mhm. Si.
MC: ¿Cómo fue eso que vivían en temor y tenias que ir a la escuela? Me imagino que caminabas o llevaste el bus. ¿Tenias que tener cuidado? ¿Como era eso?
SVP: Entonces, teníamos suerte que todos estudiamos casi en el mismo lugar. Mis hermanos, los cuatro, teníamos suerte de ir a un colegio privado donde no estábamos muy expuestas a la delincuencia. Mi mama tenia un carro entonces ella nos podía llevar en la mañana y recoger en la noche. Entonces, no estábamos tan expuestos como otras amigas que tenían que tomar el bus todos los días. Cuando ya me gradué de del bachillerato en la escuela secundaria, cuando yo me gradué, ya teníamos que—tenia yo que tomar el bus porque ya no íbamos al colegio entonces eran horarios diferentes para toda la familia. Y ahí es donde empezamos a explorar y ver mas cosas de peligro, ¿no? Mas gente que se subían a asaltar en los buses. Es interesante porque uno se acomodo de manera en que uno si llevaba unos aritos o un reloj toda en la bolsa. A llegar en mis clases te lo ponías y ya salías a la clase todo. Saliendo de las clases para tomar el bus uno se vuelve a quitar todo y lo esconde y lo guarda. Los celulares nunca en la mano. Jamás. Bien escondido en silencio porque por ejemplo tenias un celular y sonaba un beep, y había un ladrón iba y te decía: ¡Dame el teléfono ya! Y ahí perdías todo. También uno se acomoda a no tener nada de, ósea nada de lujos. Nada de una carta bonita o eso no. Uno siempre tiene que llevar lo mas – teníamos que llevar lo menos ya que llamara la atención para que no nos asaltaran, por ejemplo. Entonces, si cuando empezamos a tomar el bus fuimos expuestas mas con mis hermanas, pero ahí es donde empezamos a ver que si había mas delincuencia y por supuesto que estaba creciendo mas.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Mhm.
MC: Y no se, tus papas, no se si creciste con los dos en casa en familia. ¿Ellos trabajaron verdad? Ellos trabajaban, ¿no? Yo e escuchado historias que la gente que trabaja luego los como-- ellos tienen-- se enfocan en la gente y los extorsionan. La gente que tiene negocio o trabajan. No se. ¿Ustedes tuvieron experiencia con eso? ¿Experimentaron eso?
SVP: Personalmente no porque cuando yo salí del El Salvador en el 2004, empezaban ese tipo de extorciones a todo mundo. Entonces, no. Gracias a dios no fui expuesta a ese tipo de cosas. Pero, mi mama tenia un negocio y mi papa se murió cuando yo tenia nueve años entonces no. No recuerdo. No tengo muchos recuerdos de el trabajando. Pero, en ese tiempo cuando tenia nueve años estábamos bien. No había tanto peligro.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Pero mi mama recuerdo que en su negocio si, algunas veces se metieron los ladrones y a robar con punta de pistola en la cabeza. Denos todo el dinero y por supuesto que, si tus hijos están ahí, ella iba entregar totalmente todo. Pero, mi hermana. Mi hermana tenia una casa que alquilaba como una clínica y si la extorsionaron. La trataron de extorsionar y mi hermana es súper valiente y mi hermana hablo con los maderos. Y les dijo, ay, yo les ayudo cuando ustedes no tienen dinero yo les doy crédito. Cuando ustedes están enfermos, yo voy a sus casas y les pongo unas inyecciones. Yo cuido su familia porque me quieren extorsionar. Creo que les estaban pidiendo 50 dólares semanales lo cual la gente no gana eso para pagar una extorción así. Entonces, ella fue y hablo con ellos hagamos un trato y los sigo ayudándoles, pero ustedes no me cobren mas. Y la perdonaron. Pero yo oí de muchos que, si no les pagaron, los mataron.
MC: Hm. Si. Y un poquito mas sobre eso. Tu crees que ahorita en El Salvador, tu país, tu opinión. Piensas que es peor ahorita o como ves, que es tu opinión?
SVP: Yo deje de viajar del El Salvador por diez años. Yo no fui porque yo tenia miedo. De verdad. Tenia miedo y no, no quería encontraerme con una situación así. Ahora, también la gente te nota que uno ya no vive allá. Te nota la ropa, como habla, como uno se peina, ¿no? Entonces yo tenia miedo regresar. Pero mi amiga se caso, mi mejor amiga que era como mi hermana. Se caso hace dos años, entonces yo fui por primera vez después de diez años. Y, creo que se a calmado. Creo que tal vez porque no me subí un bus. Siempre estaba con una amiga en un taxi o en carro privado. Nunca en transporte publico. Vi que es menos. Vi que antes habían los maderos estaban caminando en la calle. Tatuados en toda la cara. Ósea te daba un temor horrible. Pero, hoy yo no los vi así. También la ciudad, pero ejemplo el centro de San Salvador, antes uno ni podría caminar ni con un teléfono en la mano. Hoy si. Es turístico. Parece una cuidad europea. Done uno puede caminar por las calles hasta la media noche en el propio centro. Yo nunca había visto eso así nunca en mi vida antes. Eso es súper bonito volver a regresar que esta mas seguro en ese sentido. Puede ser todas esas cosas. Pero, sin embargo, lo que yo y no se. No lo vi. Pero lo que yo e visto es que lo, no es tanto los maderos, pero es mas el crimen organizado. Entonces, ahora este crimen organizado, la gente se viste bien. Ya no se visten como los de antes, no que eran ladrones tradicionales. Si no gente que anda en su propio carro haciendo sus negocios, ¿no? Eso si no lo vi no lo se, pero eso me contaron, pero si. No vi ese tipo de madero tradicional que nos asustaban en las calles, por ejemplo, no vi eso.
MC: Claro. ¿Y cuando fue esos diez años, cuando dejo de ir? ¿Que año fue?
SVP: Yo deje di ir desde el 2000. 2008 al 2018. 2020. Por ahí. 2018.
MC: Ok. ¿Entonces desde el 2018, es cuando regreso apenas?
SVP: Aja. Aja.
MC: ¿Y cuanto tiempo se quedo allá?
SVP: Me quede por diez—doce días.
MC: Oh. Ok.
SVP: Y después regrese este año otra vez. Bueno el año pasado entonces ahora no quiero--. Quiero ir cada dos años. Porque, es tan lindo El Salvador. El Salvador es hermoso. Las playas. Es que, todo. Me encanta. Entonces, ahora no voy a dejar tanto tiempo.
MC: Si.
SVP: Solamente tener cuidado cuando uno viaja y si voy a ir mas.
MC: Si. Claro. Pues me da gusto que puedas volver ahora.
SVP: Si.
MC: Que no es tan peligroso que antes.
SVP: Si.
MC: --Pero. ¿Todavía tienes familia allá?
SVP: Oh. Primos. Tíos. Mis amigas están allá. Pero mi familia inmediata todos están en Estados Unidos ahora.
MC: Todos. Ok. Y, bueno, hablando un poquito sobre eso. ¿Cuándo se mudaron ellos? ¿Se mudaron contigo o después?
SVP: Después. Después. Yo vine en 2004. Y creo que mi hermano se vino el siguiente en 2005. Mi hermana en el siguiente en el 2006. Tres o cuatro años despues mi otra hermana y después mi mama. Y, mi única hermana que no pudo a Estados Unidos se fue a Italia.
MC: Oh.
SVP: Ella vive en Italia ahora porque no, no a podido viajar. No a podido venirse a Estados Unidos. Ahora ella puede visitar porque nos viene a visitar desde Italia, pero no vive en Estados Unidos.
MC: Claro. Ok. Otra pregunta que tenia, mas sobre su infancia o creciendo en su tiempo en El Salvador. Quería preguntarle sobre el clima. Los problemas, le decimos climate change.
SVP: Aja. Aja.
MC: Del ambiente.
SVP: Aja.
MC: ¿Usted-- que tipo de problemas experimento allá? ¿Que fue su experiencia con huracanes o temblores?
SVP: Terremotos. Mhm. La otra cosa es que por si ubicación geográfica El Salvador esta exactamente situado en unas placas tectónicas. Entonces, El Salvador, como te dije, es el valle de las hamacas. Tiembla constantemente. Pero, cada diez años es un estimado, ¿no? Cada diez o doce años hay un terremoto grande que afecta la gente y mi primera experiencia con un terremoto grande fue en el 86 que recuerdo que yo no sabia como era eso hasta que lo pasamos y me dijeron eso fue un terremoto. Y recuerdo que el primer terremoto yo estaba en quinto grado. Y estamos en las clases y de repente temblaba y todo mundo gritaba. No entendíamos. Yo no entendía que estaba pasando porque, si sabíamos que es un temblor, pero no un terremoto. Pero podríamos ver todo el edificio doblado a la derecha a la izquierda. El cielo falso de las casas, de la escuela se cayo. Paredes rajadas. Y, pánico. Todo mundo corriendo. Otros llorando. Todos nos abrazamos. Y desde entonces me recuerdo que empezamos hacer como capacitaciones, ¿no? Que hacer en caso de terremoto. Meterse abajo del pupite. Nadie hace eso. Todo el mundo sale corriendo [riza].
MC: [riza]
SVP: Pero no, eso fue mi primera experiencia y recuerdo que mi mama nos llevo a recoger al colegio. Todas estábamos llorando. Nos fuimos a la casa. No había luz por días. Hubo un colegio católico de niñas que se desplomo totalmente. Hubieron cientos y cientos de muertos. Un edificio principal en el centro de San Salvador, la capital, centro de San Salvador se colapso también. Y había un restaurante donde íbamos de chiquitas que vendían unos-- decíamos unos frescos de ensalada que es un refresco de fruta picada que todo el mundo le gustaba sentarse como un bar. Y todos sentamos ahí pedir una ensalada grande. Ese se desplomo también. Ósea muertos y muertos. Y recuerdo que habían gente de México, Estados Unidos, que llegaron ayudar a encontrar todos eso muertos. Con el tiempo cuando la luz regreso podíamos ver las noticias y darnos cuenta que era mas grave que lo que pensábamos. Y bueno la vida continua, ¿no? Entonces, eso fue en octubre.
MC: Fue en mil novecientos….
SVP: 86.
MC: 86.
SVP: Mhm. Y recuerdo que la escuela termino, todo el colegio el sistema educativo termino 3 semanas antes de lo normal. Todo mundo paso de grado. [riza]
MC: Si, verdad. [riza]
SVP: [riza] Porque nadie hizo los exámenes finales.
MC: [riza] Claro. No.
SVP: Bueno, la vida continua. En enero todos comenzamos las clases y todo. Eso fue mi primer experiencia. La ultima experiencia que yo recuerdo fue en el 2001. Es interesante porque esta, este fue otro terremoto que experimente. Hubo uno en febrero, enero y uno en febrero. Con un mes de diferencia. Y este nos toco cerca mi familia porque en enero hubo el—ese terremoto fue fuertísimo y recuerdo que todo mundo empieza a llamar, ¿no? Las líneas están saturadas porque todo el mundo esta llamando todo mundo.
MC: Están chequeando en la familia.
SVP: Si. Como esta fulano, ósea, todo mundo. Y recuerdo que fue fuerte en este cantón que se llamaba Molineros de donde es mi abuelita. Y recuerdo que las paredes estaban quebradas. Rajadas. Algunas de lado listas para caerse. Las casas, todas las casas se dañaron en esta comunidad. Y bueno, otra vez la vida continua. Seguimos trabajando. En febrero exactamente el mes, hay otro segundo terremoto. Enorme. Fuerte. No recuerdo que escala fue, pero tiene que ver sido mas de siete punto algo porque de ahí para arriba todo es tragedia. Y recuerdo que las casas que habían quedado dañadas se desplomaron. Y empezaron a llamar la familia que habían perdido todo. La comunidad de mi abuelita salió afectada. Perdimos unos de nuestros mejores amigos de la familia. Que la noche anterior habíamos estado en el Cantón y yo le había dicho vámonos a la casa porque abecés el se iba a vivir con nosotros por una semana.
MC: ¿En tu, en tu cuidad?
SVP: En la comunidad de mi abuelita y el venia a mi cuidad y se quedaba con nosotros. Y el no quiso venir. El dijo no, no me siento bien. Y yo: that’s why. Por eso debes de irte. Así te podemos dar medicina y tratamiento y el no quiso, pero murió el siguiente día. Hubieron varios muertos en la comunidad porque le cayeron las paredes en sima a la gente. Y recuerdo que mi mama, mi mama era la salvadora siempre. Mi mama cualquier problema que había en el cantón le llamaban. Mi mama sabia como solucionar. Y me acuerdo que mi mami dice vamos, tenemos que ir. La gente tiene hambre. No hay agua. En este entonces, no había agua potable. Gente sacaba agua de los posos. Pero los posos se secaron porque hubieron derrumbes. No había agua. No había comida. No había nada. Entonces me recuerdo que fuimos a comprar plátanos, pan, arroz, frijoles y llevábamos. Y era un--era tenebroso. Íbamos y veíamos todas las casas tiradas hasta-- porque esta comunidad como una hora y media. Y nos dio miedo. De verdad. Todas las calles había grietas. Habían hoyos. Hubo una maestra que la tierra se abrió y la tierra se la trago. Pero, como la tierra se habría y se cerraba ella no se fue totalmente todo su cuerpo, pero se quedo hasta la cintura.
MC: Si.
SVP: La tierra la apretaba y la abría y la apretaba y le quebró las piernas. Eso fue en la comunidad de mi abuelita. Y cuando llegamos allá yo me acuerdo que toda mi familia estaban bañados en tierra. Les callo como un balde de tierra. Las pestañas blancas. El pelo blanco porque las casas se cayeron y toda esa tierra les cayo encima. Mi prima, por ejemplo, ella trato de agarrarse de algo y si agarro de un alambre de púa y tenia todas las manos rascadas, los pies raspados porque cuando corrieron se cayeron y se raspaban. Los muertos estaban en el, en la plaza central por decir algo en el parque central y era tenebroso. Era horrible. Mientras tanto, seguía temblando y seguía temblando y las casa ya no- las casas que se quedaron paradas todavía teníamos miedo qué fueran a colapsar. No se si dormimos o no dormimos esa noche. Fue—nos dio miedo de verdad. Pero mi mama tenia que llevar comida para todos y fuimos y todos, ósea, yo creo que yo tenia como unos 22 o 23 años.
MC: Si.
SVP: Mhm. Ya estábamos mayores, pero todavía era algo que no podíamos controlar. Un desastre natural fuerte. Eso fue el ultimo y fue triste. Fue muy triste. De ahí, cosas buenas vienen porque hay mucha ayuda de otros países. Y la gente, mucha gente le construyeron las casas. Llego el agua potable. Ahora la gente ya no tiene que usar mucho los posos. Ya corre el agua y cosas así. Pero, fue triste. Fue muy duro. Eso por terremotos. ¿No se si quieres que cuente de huracanes? [riza]
MC: Si. Claro. Si también. Si, yo se que, pues El Salvador es, ahí esta en el medio de Centroamérica donde esta el mar. Entonces, si. ¿Que fue su experiencia con huracanes?
SVP: El huracán que yo viví de cerca fue el huracán Mitch y uh—
MC: ¿Que año fue eso?
SVP: En el, quiero decir en el 98.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Pero no estoy segura tenemos que buscar eso. Porque no estoy segura si fue en el 98. Pero, si, empezó a llover un día, dos días. Y otra vez como, ósea uno-- nunca habíamos pasado por un huracán. Entendemos exactamente pero el huracán también puede pasar de categoría uno, dos y sube y uno nunca sabe hasta donde va pasar, ¿no?
MC: Y en ese tiempo, ¿eso fue el, como el primer huracán que tu tuviste esa experiencia?
SVP: El único que e visto daño grande grave o daños exagerados—
MC: --Claro. Si.
SVP: -- O daños que, si mato gente, conocidos o en el que yo tome acción, ¿no? Ya esta en el 98 pues yo era parte de la asociación scouts de El Salvador con mis amigas allá y mi mejor amiga que es otra como mi hermana. Y me acuerdo que ella me dice, tenemos que ir. Tenemos que colaborar. Tenemos que irnos ahí para ayudar. A la asociación y a le gente, ¿no? Los scouts se iban como la cruz roja a ayudar. Había-- porque mucha gente vivía a la orilla de los ríos. Entonces es peligrosísimo ir a evacuar la gente, llevar comida, ropa, porque todo el mundo pierde todo. Entonces, me acuerdo que, nos fuimos a la asociación scouts a ayudar. Ellas mas que yo porque yo en un momento que ya nadie podía salir de las casas. Y mis amigas llegaron antes para ayudar. Yo ya no pude llegar porque nadie podía manejar ni salir a ningún lado. Era tan peligroso. Los vientos botaron arboles, los palos, los postes de eléctrico. Entonces, no había luz y bueno, accidentes por todos lados. Desborde de ríos que es lo peor yo pienso que puede haber. Bueno, entonces yo no ayude mucho, pero mis amigas si. Y otra vez, es como volver a reconstruir el país. Imagínate en el 98 tenemos este huracán que mata tanta gente, que trae tanta destrucción. Mas pobreza. Ya no hay empleos porque toda esta gente que perdió sus negocios no pueden volver a empezar y contratar otra gente. Entonces mucha gente sin—mucha gente con desempleo. En el 98 y en el 2001 los terremotos y El Salvador, el país a sido golpeado por todos lados.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Y la guerra civil antes de eso. Y las maras. Entonces, la gente es súper resilente. Y yo abecés no me explico como somos normales. [riza] Después de pasar tantas cosas terribles.
MC: Si.
SVP: Es muchas tragedias, pero también la gente a mi me--la gente salvadoreña y no es porque sea salvadoreña pero los salvadoreños siempre tienen una actitud positiva. Siempre trabajan mas de lo que tienen que trabajar. Dan mas. Comprarte hasta lo que no tienen. Y mucha gente se queda sin comer lo que, su comida por darle al otro, aunque el otro tenga mas. No importa. Hay que compartir. Es increíble. Y así son los salvadoreños.
MC: Si.
SVP: Entonces, esos dos, esos dos desastres naturales han afectado a El Salvador bastante.
MC: Claro. Me imagino. ¿Y el gobierno de El Salvador que, como ayudaron? ¿No se si ayudaron o no en tu opinión? ¿Como ayudaron ellos durante esos problemas de naturaleza?
SVP: Lo que pasa es que es difícil saber. Generalmente lo que yo viví es que siempre hay un montón de corrupción. Lo que yo vi y lo vi a nivel personal en la comunidad de mi abuelita, por ejemplo. Es que hay mucha ayuda extranjera. Sin limites. Ósea, yo recuerdo que llegaban camiones y camiones para regalar comida, para regalar ropa, para regalar medicina. Pero hay corrupción al nivel del gobierno y al nivel de sub gobierno y comunitario. Yo me acuerdo que los lideres comunitarios en esta comunidad es como, estos zapatos para mi nieto. Esta, esta comida, reste arroz que se veía mas fino que esta, que es mas caro para mi familia. Llegaba una pipa de agua. Es como un camión grande no, que lleva el agua. La pipa de agua y muchas veces los lideres no querían avisar la comunidad para cuando la pipa llega, sus familiares son los primeros. No había mucha igualdad. Ahí era el que era el mas fuerte. El mas vivo. El que tenia mas poder. Y lo mismo paso en el nivel gubernamental. Los que se benefician mas son los que tienen mas poder. Entonces, el gobierno si ayudo en el sentido de que tienen buenas relaciones internacionales con otros países. Que los otros países llevan cosas, a donar y regalar. Porque a nivel mundial, todo mundo estaba recaudado comida, ropa, víveres, lo que sea para mandar a El Salvador. Y se recibió una ayuda increíble. Ahora, si la gente la recibió o no la recibió no, no se. La comunidad de mi abuelita era de fácil acceso. Muy accesible. Y yo vi que llego ayuda. Pero hay otras comunidades que eran muy, muy, mas difícil de acezar que tal ves no recibieron nada.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Pero también hay unas comunidades que recibieron casas construidas totalmente, por ejemplo. Pero también con ayuda extranjera. No necesariamente del gobierno salvadoreño.
MC: Claro. Si. ¿Y en ese tiempo de los huracanes y los terremotos, tuvieron otras experiencias con lo de la naturaleza o el clima?
AVP: ¿Que mas? A ver, estoy tratando de pensar. Yo recuerdo que antes en octubre en el salvador teníamos muchos los famosos vientos de octubre.
MC: Ok.
AVP: Y era un viento-- era tan interesante porque todo mundo en octubre se ponía los suéteres mas gruesos. Todos los labios reventados. Tenían que ponerse manteca de cacao que uno compra por 25 cinco centavos, un pedacito. Y después con el tiempo esos vientos ya no, no los recuerdo en mi vida mas. En mis años 20, 24. No habían esos vientos. Pero antes, cuando estaba pequeña, si. Era un frio enorme. Era fuerte. Pero eso si cambio. Eso si cambio mucho. Y ahora como no estoy allá en octubre, no se si están los vientos o no. Pero si recuerdo que siempre El Salvador también a tenido problemas de sequia en donde solamente llueve de mayo hasta noviembre, abecés octubre. Ya no llueve en noviembre. Abecés una o dos llovidas en noviembre y ya no mas. Y eso siempre a sido bien particular. Era clarito. Primera lluvia de mayo y termine en octubre o noviembre. Y eso no se como a cambiado porque ya son muchos años que estoy aquí. No tengo tanto tiempo allá para ver si eso esta ahí o no o a cambiado.
MC: Si. Y yo me imagino que, en esos tiempos, eso la afecta mucho. Como El Salvador es un lugar donde hay mucha milpa. ¿Verdad? Y me imagino que eso afecto mucho a los trabajadores en la milpa.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Que están cosechando.
SVP: Claro. Si hay sequia no van a producir tanto maíz. La base principal es maíz y frijoles. Entonces, si hay una sequia, no llueve no hay frijoles, no hay maíz, que va comer la gente?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Si. Es critico.
MC: Claro. Y tu crees, o como piensas que tu crees, que eso ha cambiado en los últimos años en El Salvador. ¿Todavía están teniendo experiencia con terremotos y huracanes, como vez eso?
SVP: Bueno, afortunadamente, yo se que tiembla porque yo puedo ver en los medios sociales. ¡Todo el mundo temblor! Todos están bien. Pero no habido un terremoto grande como en el de 2001, por ejemplo. No a pasado algo tan fuerte por ahora. Sigue temblando lo cuales esta bien porque esa energía se necesita de sacar para que no haya un terremoto grande. Entonces, los temblores medianos y pequeños son necesarios, pero no habido uno tan grande, tampoco un huracán tan grande. Sin embargo, si ha habido inundaciones y tormentas o temporales. Pero no un huracán tan grande como ese.
MC: Claro. Y todo eso afecta las comunidades, especialmente las comunidades locales, pequeñas. Que es tu opinión. ¿Tu crees que es una razón que la gente se a mudado de El Salvador?
SVP: Claro. Si. Si. Yo recuerdo que después de los huracanes, mucha gente inmigro. Hay, ¿no puedo recordar cual fue el este, que fue el huracán Mitch, probablemente? Oh, había otra que mucha gente se vino a los Estados Unidos por eso. De echo, muchos les dieron el TPS. El temporal employment status. Les dieron TPS si ellos emigraron en los tiempos de estos desastres naturales, esta gente que se vino en ese tiempo fue incluida en este programa TPS con inmigración. Porque muchos emigraron debido a los desastres naturales y los terremotos también.
MC: Wow.
SVP: Eso beneficiaron del TPS por haber ido en ese tiempo de, como te digo. Si alguien perdió su negocio, de donde va empezar? El gobierno no le va dar nada. Y claro, la familia de los Estados Unidos ayuda. Pero, es casi imposible poder levantar un negocio teniendo uno o dos miembros que te ayudan solamente.
MC: Claro. Tu piensas que incluso a los Estados Unidos, la gente se mudo a otros países- SVP: --Si. Si.
MC: -- Como, no se, ¿Honduras, Guatemala o México?
SVP: Si. Si. Ok, so, Centroamérica no mucho porque todo Centroamérica esta como en misma posición [riza]. Y pasamos por Honduras y Guatemala y México para la gente que quiere llegar finalmente a Estados Unidos. Pero mucha gente se fue para Italia. Mucha gente se ha ido a España. No se que otros países, pero e conocido mucha gente que-- mi hermana por ejemplo esta en Italia.
MC: Si. Es interesante porque yo-- es algo nuevo para mi. Yo no sabia que le gente se fue a esos países.
SVP: Si.
MC: ¿Que es esa conexión? ¿Porque era tan popular que la gente se iba a Italia o España?
SVP: Yo creo que era la forma de entrar al país. No era tan estricta. No se necesita una visa. O si les dan visa, no estoy segura, pero si les dan visa, lo requisitos para obtener una visa son mucho mas fáciles y accesibles que una visa en Estados Unidos.
MC: Claro.
SVP: O económicamente es mas fácil irse a Italia. Tal vez el boleto, no se si el boleto sea mas barato, pero creo que le entrada a esos países es mucho mas fácil que Estados Unidos, por ejemplo.
MC: Claro. Si. Bueno. Y quiero hablar un poquito, Soraya, sobre-- hablamos un poquito sobre la guerra civil. Eso paso en 1979 a mil 1992.
SVP: Hasta los 90s. Mhm.
MC: ¿Tu viviste sobre, un parte de eso, me imagino?
SVP: Si. Si. Si.
MC: ¿Cuantos años tenias y que recuerdas de ese tiempo?
SVP: Lo que mas recuerdo fue el final. En los 90, 92. Ya tenia yo, ¿que 15 años? Tal vez. Recuerdo cuando estábamos bien chiquititas. Pero ejemplo, te conté que íbamos a la casa de mi abuelita y pasábamos entre la casa de mi mama y mi abuelita. En Molineros yo recuerdo muchas veces que era una guerra civil. Estaba el lado del ejercito militar y los guerrilleros. Y yo me acuerdo que en la comunidad de mi abuelita abecés llegaban los guerrilleros. Y todo el mundo salían corriendo a esconderse porque teníamos miedo. Primero porque la guerrilla llegaba y reclutaba a todos los jovencitos, hombres y mujeres. Te guste o no te gusta te vas a unir a la guerrilla. Y después llegaban los soldados a reclutar a los jóvenes. Solamente hombres, pero reclutaban. Entonces, la mayoría de los jóvenes lo que hacían era esconderse porque no querían ni unirse ni a un bando ni al otro. Cada quien quería estar con sus familias. Yo acuerdo que estábamos bien chiquititas y hubo una vez que si recuerdo muy bien. Llegaron los guerrillos y pusieren una bancarta en la, en la casa principal. En la avenida principal donde esta la casa de mi abuelita, solo pusieron en la casa de mi abuelita, y decía el FMLN no se, no recuerdo que decía. Pero yo recuerdo que estábamos con mi primo. Mi primo nos puso todos en el cuarto. Aquí vamos a estar. Todos tranquilitos y los guerrilleros fue-- pasaron al patio a tomar agua. Estábamos como escondidos, ¿no? Esperando que se vayan. Y eso era terrible porque los guerrilleros se iban y después llegaba el ejercito. ¿Que estaban haciendo aquí? Ustedes los apoyan. Ustedes les dan comida. Y realmente los guerrilleros obligaron a la gente comida también. Entonces era—no queríamos apoyar ni uno ni al otro. Pero nos encontrábamos en medio de los dos bandos por accidente, coincidencia. Y recuerdo esa experiencia. Recuerdo muchas veces cuando mi familia iba hablar que fulano de tal desapareció. Dicen que se lo llevo la guerrilla. Otros dicen que el se unió a la guerrilla. Y pasaron años y años y muchos amigos de mi mama nunca los encontraron. Sus cuerpos, no se supo nada que paso. No se supo.
MC: Desaparecieron.
SVP: Desaparecieron. Había una historia que mi mama siempre contaba y me, siempre me la imagino que este amigo a la media noche, se tuvo que esconder porque llego el gobierno, los militares, buscándolo. Y el se subió a un palo y paso toda la noche subido en un árbol.
MC: Escondiéndose.
SVP: Escondiéndose. Esperando que se fueran para poder salir, por ejemplo. Eso es cuando estaba chiquita. Después, en los en, entre los nueve y quince años de mi vida recuerdo que, si había muchos problemas en cuanto, sabotearon la planta eléctrica. Entonces, de arrepiente no vamos a tener electricidad por días. O, quemaron un bus en forma de protesta. Entonces no vamos a tener transporte. Hubo una gran matanza que se llama La Matanza del Mozote donde el gobierno fue y mato comunidades enteras. Una comunidad, por ejemplo.
MC: ¿Con niños y mujeres?
SVP: Todos. Todos. Todos. Yo no recuerdo esa noticia. Yo me di cuenta y leí de eso cuando era mas adulta. Pues yo no recuerdo eso estar en las noticias porque mi mama me hablaba o me contaba eso y yo, nunca. Era como trataban de protegernos de ese tipo de historias. Eso, fue pequeña, entonces yo no me acuerdo bien que pasó en esos años. Sabíamos que había guerra. Oíamos. Le veíamos. De repente no va ver luz por una semana, por ejemplo. No hay electricidad. Lo que recuerdo también fue-- o y recuerdo una vez cuando íbamos a la casa de mi abuelita y pasábamos por esta calle, un callejón. Y recuerdo que iba mi primo que es, era adulto, y mi mama, mas o menos de la misma edad. Mi abuelita. O, íbamos al entierro a mi bis abuelito y recuerdo que íbamos caminando y recuerdo que todos nos dijeron, cierren los ojos. Y íbamos caminando. Yo cerré los ojos y yo recuerdo que mi primo me agarro y yo cerré. Fui honesta. Pero mis dos hermanas no cerraron los ojos. Porque claro, tenían curiosidad. Y una vio el cuerpo en un lado y la otra fue la cabeza de este cuerpo en el otro lado. Entonces, ella si tienen ese recuerdo fuerte. Pero yo, si cerré los ojos, pero ellas vieron eso. Después, me acuerdo en el 92 cuando fue la defensiva final que esa si nos toco cerca porque nuestra casa estaba como a diez minutos de la fuerza armada. De donde esta todo de la fuerza armada, ¿no? Y esa fue la final. Me recuerdo que estábamos en la calle jugando y ya oíamos disparos. Y las noticias empezaba decir que todos teníamos que estarnos en la casa. Quedarnos ahí. Y recuerdo que, pues, pusimos el radio y nos dimos cuenta algo esta pasando. Y empezaron a decir que ya la guerrilla había atacado esta zona. Y la guerrilla iba ganando. Y el punto de ellos era tomar la fuerza armada. Entonces para eso tenían que pasar por mi casa para la fuerza armada. Antes de eso tenían que pasar por la casa de mi mejor amiga. Entonces, mi mejor amiga me llamo que en su colonia que esta tres minutos, cinco minutos de mi casa, la guerrilla estaba caminando casa por casa por casa para avanzar. Entonces, estaban las casas están pegaditas, ¿no?
MC: Si. Mhm.
SVP: Entonces estaban abriendo hoyos en las paredes para avanzar por dentro de las casas. Y recuerdo que una de las noches cayo una llamada a mi casa. Y yo conteste y ellos me dijeron que eran los del FMLN, la guerrilla. Que teníamos que desocupar la casa en ese momento porque ellos la iban a usar. Yo tire el teléfono. Yo no podía hablar. Estaba como, sentí el agua caliente que corría por todo mi cuerpo. Y todos me decían: ¿Qué, que, que? Yo no podía hablar. No quería decirle porque iba dar miedo. Pero al mismo tiempo yo estaba llorando. Tenemos que irnos de aquí ya. Y recuerdo que esa noche nos fuimos a dormir en la casa de vecino porque lo que pasaba es que mi casa era la ultima casa. Iba ser la primera casa de ser atacada para poder avanzar por las otras casas. No fuimos a dormir en casa del vecino y a la media noche llegaron a disparar increíblemente como nunca había oído yo. Tan cerca las balas. Y se fueron y no paso nada.
MC: ¿En cuando paso eso, adonde se fueron? ¿Se fueron de la casa? ¿En donde se fueron?
SVP: Si. Si. Si. Nos fuimos. Pero antes de todo eso llego un carro. Lo abandonaron en frente de mi casa. Era un jeep abandonado. Bueno, estaba como una cuadra de mi casa y después lo manejaron enfrente de mi casa. El jeep estaba lleno de armas. Y creo que la idea era que la gente tomara las armas y se uniera a la guerrilla, ¿no? Pero lo que paso fue que la gente se robo las armas que con el tiempo usaron las armas para ser actos criminales. Entonces las pandillas básicamente usaron todas esas armas por decir algo. Eso fue uno. El otro fue que había- en mi casa estaban construyendo una calle nueva, entonces del gobierno había una casita con miles de herramientas de construcción. La guerrilla llego allá y le dijo al vigilante con la pistola, ¿no? Nos tienen que prestar las pala, piocha, todo para ir. Lo vamos a usar y lo vamos a traer en la mañana. Se lo llevaron en la media noche supuestamente era para abrir tumbas y enterrar a los muertos. Y a las cuatro de la mañana regresaron todito. Ósea, no robaron a la gente, pero si nos atemorizaban, ¿no? Lo regresaron todo. No se robaron nada. Entonces, después de cinco o, creo que duro siete días todo, pero después de tres días, nos fuimos de la colonia. Nos tuvimos que ir y nos fuimos a casa de una tía que vivía en una, en otra ciudad. Pero donde no estaba pasando nada porque estaba pasando mas que todo, nuestra comunidad porque iban atacar la fuerza armada. Nos fuimos para donde mi tía pasamos ahí unos cinco o seis días. No recuerdo muy bien.
MC: Si.
SVP: Y después regresamos a la casa ya cuando todo había acabado. Pero en eso podíamos ver que habían quemado la fabrica, unas de las fabricas mas grandes de San Salvador – de El Salvador. Se llama la Diana. Y lo podríamos que esta el otro lado de la cuidad. Podíamos ver hasta el otro lado el humo. Era un chaos total.
MC: Wow. ¿Y esa casa, era donde tu creciste?
SVP: Aja. Si.
MC: ¿La misma casa?
SVP: Si. La misma casa donde yo crecí. Y vivía por, estuvimos ahí por mas de 28 años. Bueno, todavía mi mama tiene la casa.
MC: ¿Sí? ¿Todavía?
SVP: [riza]
MC: Wow.
SVP: Entonces ella a tenido esta casa por 45 años. [riza]
MC: Wow. Que historia y que miedo.
SVP: Si. Ahora que recuerdo vivíamos en miedo. [riza]
MC: No me puedo imaginar eso.
SVP: Si.
MC: Bueno, cambiando un poquito el tema, después de todo eso, como usted, ¿como tu no se. ¿Como llegaste a los Estados Unidos? ¿O qué paso después de todo eso?
SVP: Si. Entonces después de todo eso, en 2001 fue el año del terremoto. Mhm. Y bueno hay esta asociación que se llama Cuerpo de Paz y mi esposo es de Kansas City originalmente y el se fue a El Salvador como Cuerpo de Paz. Eso es interesante porque primero el viaje de el tenia que salir en Septiembre pero por las- se cayeron la torres gemelas cuando paso ese tentado. Su viaje se tubo que retrasar—
MC: Posponer.
SVP: Mhm. Llego mucho mas después de lo que habían pensado. Ese terremoto había pasado en enero. El llego en noviembre, pero la carretera principal todavía estaba cerrada. La panamericana que corre por todo sur américa y Centroamérica. Estaba cerrada por el terremoto. Entonces, conocí a mi esposo una vez que estábamos manejando y mi prima estaba manejando y todos mis otros primos, hermanos, amigos, estábamos en el pickup. En una troca como les dicen los mexicanos. [riza] Estábamos atrás todos y mi esposo estaba pidiendo un ride. Quería que alguien lo llevara. Y mi primo paro y lo subimos ahí. Pero el vivía en, con otro primo como estaba en capacitación. El vivía allá. Lo conocía si y lo conocí como voluntario de paz. Mientras era voluntario fuimos novios por dos años y nos casamos. Y por eso yo me vine a Estados Unidos. Pero yo pienso también que, si yo no me hubiera casado con el, yo me hubiera venido de todas maneras. De alguna manera hubiera llegado a Estados Unidos o otro país porque la situación era terrible en El Salvador.
MC: ¿Por lo mismo?
SVP: Mhm.
MC: ¿De todo?
SVP: De todo. Lo que te e contado. [riza]
MC: Wow.
SVP: Si. Si.
MC: Entonces, que linda historia como conoció su esposo. ¿Eso paso en 2001?
SVP: En el 2001 nos conocimos. Nos casamos en el 2004 y llegue aquí en el 2004 cuando tenia 28 años.
MC: ¿28 años?
SVP: Aja. Y tuve que aprender ingles porque yo no sabia- bueno, mientras fuimos novios tomé clases de ingles todos los días por dos horas. Todos días. Y yo pensaba que yo sabia un montón. [riza] Y yo llegue aquí y alguien me preguntaba algo y yo solo con la cabeza decía si o decía no. No tenia ni voz. No quería ni usar mi voz. Y cualquier cosa yo iba responderle a mi esposo en español. Mi esposo iba traducir. Y después de un mes, mi esposo dice yo estoy cansado de estar traduciendo. Esto no puede pasar. Tiene que hablar ingles. ¡Y yo no puedo! ¡No puedo! [riza]
MC: ¿Entonces cuando conoció a su esposo, en ese tiempo, no sabias ingles?
SVP: ¡No!
MC: El sabia un poquito de español?
SVP: ¡Si! Si. Si. Y en su capacitación. En su capacitación que ellos reciben en el Cuerpo de Paz lo cual es genial para cualquier persona que quiera aprender español. La capacitación de Cuerpo de Paz es lo mejor. Así el aprendió. Pero el también tenia maestros, ósea, yo. Su maestra privada. [riza] Pero también mi familia. Todo el tiempo le estamos enseñado. Y el quería aprender español. Y yo siempre quise aprender ingles. Y podía, pero no era la realidad como yo pensaba que eso era. No. Es difícil. [riza]
MC: ¿Como era ese proceso para ti? ¿Se casaron en El Salvador y después se mudo y como fue ese proceso de inmigración? ¿Tuvo que agarrar su visa?
SVP: Si.
MC: ¿Me puede contar un poco?
SVP: Afortunadamente nosotros teníamos mi familia y yo teníamos visa de turistas. Entonces yo podía entrar al país como turista. Entonces, venimos aquí para pasar tiempo con su familia y decidimos no, no vale la pena regresar al El Salvador, solicitar los papeles allá y esperar dos años. Mejor nos quedamos aquí en los Estados Unidos. Va ser mas fácil. Fui a vivir a Kansas City por seis meses. Bueno no. Vivimos allá por un año. Y mientras tanto, pues esperando los papeles y yo empecé dar clases privadas de español. Y, mi esposo trabajaba como mantenimiento en un edificio. Y así el solicito para una beca para poder estudiar. Y recibió una beca aquí en Carolina del Norte. Y por eso no venimos para acá para Carolina del Norte. Pero el proceso es duro. Es costoso. Esta uno en incertidumbre. Porque el no podía comprarme seguro medico si no tener un numero de seguro social, por ejemplo. Y exactamente no tengo seguro social, no tengo seguro medico, y me enfermo y tengo que ir—tuve que ir al hospital. Y después esta gran cuente, ¿no? Que uno tiene que pagar. Aparte de todo es, en Kansas City no había muchos latinos allá. Entonces yo solamente pasaba tiempo con gente que hablaba español-en ingles. Y era bueno porque aprendía un montón, pero estaba, estaba deprimiéndome. Como no hablan mi idioma. No hay música. No hay comida que me gusta. No esta mi familia. No están mis amigos. La familia de mi esposo me trato bien. Y yo era la reina. Me trataban súper bien. Querían hacerme feliz, pero me hacia falta lo que yo estaba acostumbrada, ¿no?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Y después de eso aun que uno es un adulto, un profesional, yo tengo una carrera, pero porque tengo un acento fuerte en ingles, todavía la gente piensa que uno no es tan inteligente porque no hablo ni ingles bien o no entiende tal palabra uno no es inteligente. Pero si es. Lo que pasa es que aprender lenguas no es fácil. [riza]
MC: Claro que no.
SVP: Entonces-- y tratan como un niño. Te hablan como un niño pequeño.
MC: O te hablan mas despacio.
SVP: O te gritan. Bueno no, yo escucho bien pero no puedo entender. Entonces, es todas esas cosas son como de repente uno dice, yo no quiero estar aquí. Ya me quiero ir a mi casa. Pero después con el tiempo, uno se acostumbra. Aprende. Sabe no, este es mi casa hoy.
MC: Si. Y eso, cuando usted se mudo aquí en Carolina del Norte, ¿que año fue eso?
SVP: En el 2004. No. No. No. El 2005 a Carolina del Norte.
MC: Y es porque su esposo es el que agarro –
SVP: --Una beca en la universidad primero y bueno la idea era que nosotros tenemos familia en Maryland y que yo iba estar mas cerca que la familia, pero todavía esta lejos entonces nunca visite a nadie allá. Empecé trabajar aquí mientras yo podía ser residente en Carolina del Norte y empecé a solicitar una beca para mi para poder estudiar también porque realmente yo siempre quería ser, quería enseñar. Yo siempre e sido una educadora. Pero me di cuenta que si uno no tiene educación es difícil encontrar un trabajo estable y hacer lo que te gusta. Me dieron una beca al final pude hacer una – me dieron como una asistencia y pude trabajar y estudiar y también fuimos los dos a la Universidad Estatal de Carolina del Norte.
MC: ¿NC State?
SVP: NC State. Si.
MC: Que bueno. ¿Que estudio ahí?
SVP: Saque una maestría en artes. Para enseñar-- poder enseñar español.
MC: Que bueno. Y es lo que esta haciendo ahorita, ¿verdad?
SVP: Si. Es lo que hago hoy, bueno tengo algunos trabajos. Soy como tu, que me gusta ser de todo. Si hay algo que quiero hacer, lo hago. Y me encanta. Entonces, si. Enseño español en esta universidad Lenoir Rhyne. Es una universidad privada. Pequeña. Y los estudiantes, todo es personalizado. Antes enseñe en la Universidad Estatal, también trabaje como profesora de español allá por unos años antes de irnos al Cuerpo de Paz. Y cuando regresamos del Cuerpo de Paz me vine a trabajar a esta universidad.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Puedes hablar un poco de tu experiencia en el cuerpo de paz? Como fue eso porque tu también participaste.
SVP; ¡Si!
MC: ¿Que programa y cuando fue? ¿Me puede contar un poco de eso?
SVP: Entonces después de que me gradué de la universidad, trabajé allá en – me contrataron para trabajar como una instructora de español y cuando mi esposo era voluntario yo siempre quería trabajar. Me encantaba su trabajo y en El Salvador nos dimos cuenta que las mujeres no confían en un hombre tanto. Entonces, tenían pena de hablar con un hombre. Siempre pensamos ha de ser chévere como pareja, hacerlo como pareja. Porque los hombres pueden trabajar con los hombres, las mujeres con las mujeres o pueden experimentar que se puede trabajar hombre con mujer, mujer con hombre. Y siempre queríamos irnos al Cuerpo de Paz y bueno adoptamos una niña. Es mi sobrina que tenia 15 años y cuando ella se graduó de la escuela secundaria dijimos ok. Ella ya se puede ir. Nosotros también nos podemos ir. Nos fuimos al Cuerpo de Paz y no seleccionaron para ir a Panamá. Nos fuimos a Panamá y fuimos a vivir en una comunidad indígena. Bueno, Panamá es un país rico porque tienes el Canal y ganan millones diario. Pero los millones no llegan a las comunidades indígenas. Entonces, vivimos en una comunidad donde no había agua potable ni había electricidad. Teníamos que filtrar el agua. Teníamos que hacer todo en el día cuando había luz solar, ¿no? Nos fuimos a vivir allá por tres años y como siempre e estado de la educación y siempre me a gustado en el empoderamiento de mujeres. Creamos un grupo que se llamaba Universidad al Campo donde seleccionábamos jóvenes que querían ir a la universidad y los preparábamos para ir a la universidad. Los llevamos a conocer la universidad, a ver las carreras. Les dábamos clases de computación, clases de desarrollo profesional para que estén listos para ir allá. Y también en la casa damos clases a los niños. Teníamos una biblioteca. Los niños venían a la casa de nosotros y todos los días de cuatro a seis teníamos hasta 25 niños.
MC: ¡Wow!
SVP: Era intenso. Pero los niños eran, ósea, nos hacían, nos hicieron la vida feliz. Llegaban, aprendían a leer, escribir, aprender a relacionarse, a trabajar en equipo, liderazgo. Recibir un poco de amor y cariño porque en las comunidades indígenas no reciben un abrazo de nadie. No reciben un te quiero. No reciben eres bueno, inteligente. Nada. Entonces todo eso trabajamos con los jóvenes en el autoestima. El autoconfianza. Y mi esposo trabajaba en el área de agricultura que eso a sido siempre lo que el a hecho.
MC: Pues que bueno. Se escucha como una experiencia tan buena que ustedes estuvieron juntos.
SVP: ¡Si! Si. Y es otra de las que las parejas o sobreviven o se matan. [riza] Pero yo pienso encontramos apoyo mutuo. Porque, yo no se si pudiera haber hecho sola. Vivíamos en una comunidad aislada y es una comunidad dura en el sentido que otra vez porque son indígenas no reciben este, no tienen esa experiencia de decir gracias, por ejemplo. En la lengua de ellos no existe la palabra gracias entonces no saben como apreciar. Entonces uno siente que no lo quieren. Uno se siente que no caí bien. Ese tipo de cosa. Entonces fue bueno de tener un apoyo.
MC: Si. Pues que bueno. Este, quería preguntar también, ¿como llegaron aquí en Catawba County?
SVP: Aja.
MC: Que si estoy muy interesada en eso porque yo me mude aquí hace diez años.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Me mude aquí en 2012 y es muy diferente de nuestros países.
SVP: Si. Si.
MC: ¿Como fue eso y este, como a cambiado este lugar desde usted-- cuando llego usted?
SVP: Aja. No te voy a mentir que a sido- estoy sorprendida de vivir aquí porque esta comunidad es una comunidad súper pequeña. Es muy conservadora. Y hay gente buenísima, pero, aun que la gente es súper buena, todavía se puede sentir que te miran como una persona de afuera. No solamente porque me miro así con pelo negro, bajita, morena, pero solamente por--pero también, aunque la gente se mire blanca, para la gente que no es de aquí, siempre va ser una gente de afuera, ¿no? A mi me gusta mucho porque es un lugar donde tenemos una casa donde podemos tener un huerto que mi esposo le encanta. Es una casa, es una comunidad donde no hay trafico. Pero llegamos aquí porque mi esposo aplico, solicitó un trabajo como director de la Oficina de Extensión Cooperativa. Y le dieron el trabajo entonces yo vine con el. Fue causalidad yo apliqué, solicité esta universidad. Tuve la suerte que alguien se había ido y me contrataron. Yo no había- mi esposo viajo y vio la cuidad y por supuesto que los gustos de mi esposo y los míos son diferentes. Pero, abecés amas tanto tu pareja que le tienes que confiar. [riza]
MC: Claro.
SVP: Entonces, yo le confié y viniendo del Cuerpo de Paz y vivir en un área sin electricidad, sin agua, esto iba ser fácil, ¿no? Esto va ser la maravilla. No tenia miedo. Yo pensé, va funcionar. Nos vamos adaptar. Otra vez los salvadoreños súper resilentes y hacen lo que tienen que hacer. Vine aquí por primera vez- fue como un 12 de diciembre. Llegue a las 11:30 a Hickory porque tenia una entrevista de trabajo a las 12. [riza]
MC: ¡Wow!
SVP: Entonces, manejando directo a la universidad. Nunca había visto a la universidad. Nunca había visto Hickory. Nada. Y afortunadamente me dieron el trabajo y me encanta. La universidad me encanta. Siempre estar un área educativa, en un campus, con los estudiantes. Los estudiantes me rejuvenecen.
MC: Si.
SVP: Me dan una enejaría que necesito para vivir, sentirme feliz. Entonces me encanta. Pero otra vez, abecés el ambiente, puede ser como siempre sos una de afuera. No sos de aquí. Pero parte de eso, es fácil vivir aquí. Nunca hay trafico. Hay espacio. Nunca hay un problema de parqueo. Por ejemplo, mi hermana una vez le digo, te espero en el centro de convenciones. ¿Y ella me dice, donde me tengo que parquear? Yo le digo, en el centro de convenciones. Porque ella vive en Maryland y el centro de convenciones allá en Washington tiene que parquearse como tres cuadras y caminar y eso. ¡Y yo, no! Es fácil. Todo es fácil. Nunca hay problema de estacionamiento. Nada. Tenemos muchos amigos que e encontrado aquí que me hacen súper feliz y me gusta mucho el estilo de vida rural. Yo soy una persona de ciudad y extraño eso. Cuando voy a Raleigh o a Charlotte es como [emocionada]. Me encanta, pero también me encanta vivir pacíficamente. Tranquilamente.
MC: Si. Si. Es muy tranquilo y es también mi experiencia.
SVP: Aja.
MC: De venir y vivir en otros lugares, otros países. Pero si, aquí es muy tranquilo.
SVP: Si.
MC: La naturaleza también. Te quería preguntar también sobre tu trabajo. ¿También trabajas en el library? En la biblioteca. ¿Cual es tu posición ahí?
SVP: Se llama la posición, es como un library specialist. Una especialista. Pero, realmente lo que yo hago es, soy el enlace Latino entre la biblioteca y la comunidad latina. Mi trabajo es encontrar los recursos y dárselos a la gente. Entonces, es como soy la referencia de los latinos. ¿Donde hay un abogado? ¿Donde me puedo casar? En la biblioteca también creamos un programa que se llama Homework Helpers que es tutoría. Ves, la mayoría de los padres latinos que no hablan español. Sus hijos sufren las consecuencias, ¿no? Y les cuesta o les tarda un poquito mas en aprender y leer y escribir. Entonces es un recurso que los padres me dijeron. ¿Porque no ofrecen esto? Lo necesitamos. Y generalmente en este programa tenemos de 25 a 30 estudiantes que vienen a leer por treinta minutos. Y es comprobado que sus notas, su compresión, todo mejora. Solamente por venir y leer con un tutor. Los tutores son estudiantes de la escuela secundaria que necesitan servicio comunitaria. Horas de servicio comunitaria y provén entonces eso es una ayuda mutua. Y eso es lo que hago. Ofrecemos clases de ingles para los hispanohablantes. Programas que ahora por la pandemia no estamos ofreciendo muchos, pero siempre antes yo ofrecía un programa al mes. Entonces, aprendan como comer saludable. Aprenda a como hacer joyas o aritos. Aprenda como cuidar sus hijos emocionalmente. Un montón de talleras o talleres para empoderamiento de mujeres. También creamos un club de lectura en español donde hay como diez, once personas que participan. Leemos en español. Nos reunimos una ves al mes. ¿Que mas? Bueno y cosas así, ¿no?
MC: Si.
SVP: Ayudar a los latinos a encontrar esos recursos que ellos piensan que no existe o que no saben como conectarlos. Pues yo los conecto con las cosas de la comunidad.
MC: Si. Yo cuando me mudé aquí me sorprendí que si hay una populación de latinos aquí en el condado de Catawba.
SVP: ¡Si! Somos el 10% casi 11% de la comunidad. Mhm.
MC: Si. ¿Y tu trabajo con el-la comunidad latina, tu que piensas Soraya que son los recursos que necesitan mas? ¿Como que tipo de recursos necesitan los latinos que viven aquí en el condado?
SVP: Aja.
MC: O, ¿que son recursos que tu piensas que ellos buscan mas?
SVP: Que buscan mas. Ok. So, lo que buscan mas quieren aprender ingles. Todo el mundo quiere ayudar a sus hijos. No es que no quieran. Es que no pueden. Aun que yo, por ejemplo, que puedo hablar ingles, las formas de matemáticas que yo aprendí en mi país, aquí es diferente. La división. Como dividir números. Aquí el sistema es diferente que lo que es en El Salvador. Yo no podría ayudarle a mis hijos a dividir o a ensenarles a dividir, por ejemplo. Necesitaría ayuda de alguien mas porque los sistemas son diferentes. Entonces ellos quieren aprender ingles para ayudar a sus hijos. Aprender ingles para poder ir al doctor y no depender que sus hijos trabajen. Ellos necesitan mucha ayuda con inmigración. ¿Que deben de hacer? Los abogados de inmigración son- los costos son elevados que no todo el mundo puede pagar así. La inseguridad en cuanto a manejar sin licencia, eso ellos necesitan como que van hacer? Tienen que llevar sus hijos a la escuela, a las citas medicas. Ellos quieren cumplir con todo, pero, no tienen quien ayudarles encontrar ese tipo de cosas. Medicinas. Doctores que si no tienen seguro medico, donde pueden encontrar la atención que necesitan sin costarles un ojo de la cara, por ejemplo. ¿Que mas? Ayuda en cuanto a sus niños para tener excito en la escuela porque de verdad, no es que los padres no quieran ir a las reuniones. Solamente que no saben como. No saben que hacer. No haya entender cuando están explicando. Sus niños tienen que ser esto, esto y esto y ellos quieren ayudar, pero como no entendieron el mensaje no le van ayudar el niño. Entonces necesitan traductores que puedan ayudarles. Lo cual voy a ser honesta que ahora en el condado yo e visto mucha mas información que nunca en español y en ingles. Casi casi todo esta siendo hoy bilingüe. Voy a decir que el condado de Catawba esta haciendo un trabajo buenísimo en cuanto han tener gente por ejemplo con la pandemia. A tener la información en los dos idiomas. Educar a la gente en los dos idiomas. Porque mucha gente no es que no quiera, solamente que el mensaje no llega porque no esta en la lengua, ¿no? Y otra cosa también que yo siento que el condado esta haciendo un buen trabajo en recordar y enfocarse para quien es el mensaje. Es para gente que tiene educación o es para gente que no a tenido educación, pero todavía necesita entender este mensaje. Todos están haciendo mucho mas simple para que el mensaje llegue a la gente.
MC: Claro. Si. Claro. Y una ultima pregunta para ti. ¿Tu piensas que a crecido el numero de latinos aquí en al área? Tu crees que, que están viniendo mas, emigrando de otros países y si si piensas que si esta creciendo, ¿por qué?
SVP: Mhm. Yo la verdad que, yo me incluyo en ese numero de latinos que están viniendo porque yo recientemente hace siete años solamente. Lo que voy a hacer también es que e notado que mucha mas gente de visita a la biblioteca porque desde que hay un servicio en español mas grande y a crecido mas, ellos se comunican entre ellos. Y la gente llega me mandaron que aquí hablan español y vemos que esa comunidad esta creciendo en la biblioteca, por ejemplo. Porque se cuentan entre ellos. Se confían en la biblioteca. La gente sabe que iban encontrar algo confiable, seguro. Y entonces yo veo que esa población si a crecido mas y creo que la gente esta inmigrando por lo mismo. En nuestros países no hay trabajos. Hay muchos profesionales. Se están graduando de la universidad, la gente se gradúa en masas. Pero no encuentran un trabajo profesional o no encuentran un trabajo que pague lo suficiente para cubrir las necesidades de las familias, ¿no? Bueno la gente se viene por falta de trabaja. La gente se viene por problemas económicos, sociales, problemas de delincuencia. Cuanta gente tiene que salir porque están amenazados. Que, si no hacen esto o lo otro, lo van a matar a ellos y sus familias. Ósea, la gente sale por muchas cosas y, pero creo que la mayoría es porque la falta de oportunidades en nuestros países son grandes. No hay muchas oportunidades.
MC: Claro. Si. Yo también veo eso. En mi país, en México y mucha gente que yo e hablado es mucho de lo mismo.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Entonces, bueno muchas gracias—
SVP: No, gracias.
MC: Son todas las preguntas que tengo ahorita. No se si quiere decir otra cosa o unas preguntas--
SVP: -- No. Yo pienso que podríamos hablar mucho mas, pero pienso que [riza] nos vamos aburrir.
MC: [riza] Si.
SVP: Pero, pero me encanta este proyecto que están haciendo porque me da curiosidad cuando estas primeras, segundas generaciones de Carolina del Norte puedan escuchar lo que fuimos nosotros, se van a dar cuenta de- es parte de la historia, ¿no?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Que tal vez no van a encontrar en un libro escrito, pero son historias que cada individuo vive.
MC: Claro. Son experiencias de la gente que-- experiencias vividas.
SVP: Mhm. De la vida normal. Real. Cotidiana.
MC: Y es muy importante. Bueno, pues muchas gracias. Me dio mucho gusto conocerte y hablarte--
SVP: --Igualmente--
MC: -- y escuchar tu historia.
SVP: Igualmente. Gracias.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Educadores
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Español
Es: Resumen
Soraya Valdez Place es profesora de español en la Universidad Lenoir Rhyne y la Especialista en Promoción Comunitaria del sistema de bibliotecas del condado Catawba en Hickory, Carolina del Norte. Es originaria de San Salvador, El Salvador y se mudó por primera vez a los Estados Unidos en el 2004. Soraya cuenta la historia de su vida y explica cómo fue su infancia en El Salvador. Ella reflexiona sobre las luchas que ella y su familia enfrentaron y describe la violencia, los desastres naturales y la guerra civil que asolan a su país. Ella comparte la historia de mudarse a los Estados Unidos por primera vez, los desafíos de aprender inglés y, finalmente, cómo llegó a vivir a Carolina del Norte. También comparte su experiencia de su tiempo en el Cuerpo de Paz y su servicio en el extranjero con su esposo. Soraya habla sobre las diferencias entre la vida en Carolina del Norte, específicamente en el condado de Catawba, y la vida en su hogar en El Salvador. Por último, habla de su trabajo en el condado de Catawba como Profesora de Español y la Especialista en Promoción Comunitaria, sirviendo como puente para la comunidad hispanohablante. Soraya cierra la entrevista contándome sobre los diferentes problemas que enfrenta la comunidad Latina en el condado de Catawba y su trabajo para enfrentar estos problemas mediante la creación de talleres y clases en el sistema local de bibliotecas.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Soraya Valdez Place por Marisa Carlton, 10 February 2022, R-1000, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Cuidadania e inmigracion; Programas de servicios socilaes y comunitarios; Lenguage y comunicación; Comunidades receptoras; Guerra y violencia
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Ok. Hola. Me llamo Marisa Carlton. Hoy es el 10 de febrero 2022. Estoy aquí con Soraya Place. Estamos aquí en su oficina en Lenoir Rhyne University. Ella me va contar un poquito sobre su vida y sus experiencias. Muchas gracias Soraya por estar aquí dispuesta de hacer esta entrevista. Ok. Vamos a comenzar.
Soraya Valdez Place: Ok.
MC: ¿Podemos empezar en – me puede contar un poco de su – el país de donde es usted?
SVP: Mhm.
MC: ¿Y como era el lugar? ¿Como creció? ¿De donde es? ¿Donde nació?
Soraya Valdez Place: Mhm. Ok. Yo soy de San Salvador en El Salvador. Y El Salvador es el país mas chiquitito de todo Centroamérica. Le llaman el pulgarcito de América. También le llaman el valle de las hamacas porque esta todo el tiempo temblando, entonces el país se mueve constantemente. Nací en la capital, pero vivíamos en una cuidad que se llama Soyapango que antes cuando yo estaba creciendo en la cuidad era súper segura. Todos podíamos salir a jugar y eran las nueve o diez de la noche y andábamos en la calle corriendo hasta que los papas nos decían: ¡Ya! ¡Hora de dormir! Pero andábamos en grupos con amigas y muchachos y amigos. Pero, después poco a poco se fue poniendo la cuidad un poco mas peligrosa hasta que Soyapango se convirtió en uno do los barrios mas peligrosos de San Salvador. Y cuando ya no podíamos salir. Las casas pasaban con llave. Y eso fue cuando ya era mas grande. Había que echar llave, todo cerrado. Ventanas cerradas para que nadie pudiera ver que haya adentro. Y los ladrones se metieron muchas veces a mi casa. Entonces, de chiquita tengo excelentes memorias porque la pasamos súper bien. Pero, do ahí aquí íbamos creciendo y la delincuencia iba aumentando y la pasamos mal. Varias veces los ladrones se metieron a mi casa cuando no había nadie. Se robaron todo. Había una vez en que llegaron los ladrones y nos apuntaron con pistolas y metieron toda a la familia en el baño chiquitito. Y se llevaron el carro y en el carro echaron las carteras, las televisiones, cámaras, teléfonos, joyas, dinero, todo lo que pudieron. Y se lo llevaron. Nos dejaron encerados ahí y después salimos y se habían llevado todo. Era la hora de almuerzo. No pudimos ni almorzar porque pensábamos que le habían echado veneno a la comida. Ósea, botamos toda la comida. Nos quedamos sin cinco centavos. Sin carro para salir. Entonces tuvimos que buscar ayuda de amigos. Y bueno así era mi cuidad, pero también nosotros estábamos muy conectados con el campo porque mi abuelita viene de un cantón que se llama Molineros y es en San Vicente en otro departamento. Y viajábamos a Molineros constantemente. Cada fin de semana viaje familiar. Era en que, vamos todos o nadie. Entonces, yo vengo de cinco hermanos. Soy la del medio. Tengo dos hermanos mayores, una hermana menor, un hermano menor y yo estoy en medio. Entonces, todos los domingos, en la mañana para el campo y regresamos a noche y hay, creo que son una de las memorias mas divertidas porque siempre había algo. Una experiencia diferente. Sea algo de carro, o no quedábamos sin gasolina o que vamos almorzar y llegar este pueblito estar con los primos, subiéndonos en los palos, comiendo fruta sin lavarnos las manos. Era, pues era una infancia buenísima.
MC: Si.
SVP: La pasamos súper bien.
MC: ¿Tu cuidad—me puede decir otra vez como se llama?
SVP: Soyapango.
MC: Soyapango.
SVP: Aja.
MC: ¿Y esa cuidad era mas, era cuidad grande? ¿Pequeño?
SVP: Si.
MC: O, era cerca de–¿
SVP: -- de San Salvador. Mhm. So, allá en El Salvador nadie tiene carro. Si tenemos carro pero un carro familiar. No es que cada quien tiene su carro entonces en carro podríamos llegar al centro, a la capital en que, veinte minutos.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Treinta minutos. Pero en bus iba tardar 45 minutos, una hora. Mas la trabazón que decimos, o el trafico. ¿Una hora y media depende no? Pero muy cerca la capital.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Mhm.
MC: Y, cuando usted estaba contando de la delincuencia que eso-- ¿cuándo paso eso? ¿Cuantos anos tenias que tu notaste un cambio? ¿Como que año o cuantos años tenias cuando tu notaste eso?
SVP: Yo pienso que cuando ya tenia como 14, 15 años. Maybe. O tal vez desde los 17. Hasta que me fui de esa colonia. De ese lugar hasta, desde los 17 hasta los 28 años. Fueron todos eso años desde que vivíamos con miedo. Todo el tiempo. Porque, las maras crecieron. Las pandillas o las maras empezaron a crecer. Había mucha delincuencia. Vivíamos mas con temor después de mis 15 a 17 años hasta que me fui a los 28 años.
MC: Claro. ¿Y eso como era para ti? ¿Si me puedes contar, ibas a la escuela? Me imagino, ¿verdad?
SVP: Mhm. Mhm. Si.
MC: ¿Cómo fue eso que vivían en temor y tenias que ir a la escuela? Me imagino que caminabas o llevaste el bus. ¿Tenias que tener cuidado? ¿Como era eso?
SVP: Entonces, teníamos suerte que todos estudiamos casi en el mismo lugar. Mis hermanos, los cuatro, teníamos suerte de ir a un colegio privado donde no estábamos muy expuestas a la delincuencia. Mi mama tenia un carro entonces ella nos podía llevar en la mañana y recoger en la noche. Entonces, no estábamos tan expuestos como otras amigas que tenían que tomar el bus todos los días. Cuando ya me gradué de del bachillerato en la escuela secundaria, cuando yo me gradué, ya teníamos que—tenia yo que tomar el bus porque ya no íbamos al colegio entonces eran horarios diferentes para toda la familia. Y ahí es donde empezamos a explorar y ver mas cosas de peligro, ¿no? Mas gente que se subían a asaltar en los buses. Es interesante porque uno se acomodo de manera en que uno si llevaba unos aritos o un reloj toda en la bolsa. A llegar en mis clases te lo ponías y ya salías a la clase todo. Saliendo de las clases para tomar el bus uno se vuelve a quitar todo y lo esconde y lo guarda. Los celulares nunca en la mano. Jamás. Bien escondido en silencio porque por ejemplo tenias un celular y sonaba un beep, y había un ladrón iba y te decía: ¡Dame el teléfono ya! Y ahí perdías todo. También uno se acomoda a no tener nada de, ósea nada de lujos. Nada de una carta bonita o eso no. Uno siempre tiene que llevar lo mas – teníamos que llevar lo menos ya que llamara la atención para que no nos asaltaran, por ejemplo. Entonces, si cuando empezamos a tomar el bus fuimos expuestas mas con mis hermanas, pero ahí es donde empezamos a ver que si había mas delincuencia y por supuesto que estaba creciendo mas.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Mhm.
MC: Y no se, tus papas, no se si creciste con los dos en casa en familia. ¿Ellos trabajaron verdad? Ellos trabajaban, ¿no? Yo e escuchado historias que la gente que trabaja luego los como-- ellos tienen-- se enfocan en la gente y los extorsionan. La gente que tiene negocio o trabajan. No se. ¿Ustedes tuvieron experiencia con eso? ¿Experimentaron eso?
SVP: Personalmente no porque cuando yo salí del El Salvador en el 2004, empezaban ese tipo de extorciones a todo mundo. Entonces, no. Gracias a dios no fui expuesta a ese tipo de cosas. Pero, mi mama tenia un negocio y mi papa se murió cuando yo tenia nueve años entonces no. No recuerdo. No tengo muchos recuerdos de el trabajando. Pero, en ese tiempo cuando tenia nueve años estábamos bien. No había tanto peligro.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Pero mi mama recuerdo que en su negocio si, algunas veces se metieron los ladrones y a robar con punta de pistola en la cabeza. Denos todo el dinero y por supuesto que, si tus hijos están ahí, ella iba entregar totalmente todo. Pero, mi hermana. Mi hermana tenia una casa que alquilaba como una clínica y si la extorsionaron. La trataron de extorsionar y mi hermana es súper valiente y mi hermana hablo con los maderos. Y les dijo, ay, yo les ayudo cuando ustedes no tienen dinero yo les doy crédito. Cuando ustedes están enfermos, yo voy a sus casas y les pongo unas inyecciones. Yo cuido su familia porque me quieren extorsionar. Creo que les estaban pidiendo 50 dólares semanales lo cual la gente no gana eso para pagar una extorción así. Entonces, ella fue y hablo con ellos hagamos un trato y los sigo ayudándoles, pero ustedes no me cobren mas. Y la perdonaron. Pero yo oí de muchos que, si no les pagaron, los mataron.
MC: Hm. Si. Y un poquito mas sobre eso. Tu crees que ahorita en El Salvador, tu país, tu opinión. Piensas que es peor ahorita o como ves, que es tu opinión?
SVP: Yo deje de viajar del El Salvador por diez años. Yo no fui porque yo tenia miedo. De verdad. Tenia miedo y no, no quería encontraerme con una situación así. Ahora, también la gente te nota que uno ya no vive allá. Te nota la ropa, como habla, como uno se peina, ¿no? Entonces yo tenia miedo regresar. Pero mi amiga se caso, mi mejor amiga que era como mi hermana. Se caso hace dos años, entonces yo fui por primera vez después de diez años. Y, creo que se a calmado. Creo que tal vez porque no me subí un bus. Siempre estaba con una amiga en un taxi o en carro privado. Nunca en transporte publico. Vi que es menos. Vi que antes habían los maderos estaban caminando en la calle. Tatuados en toda la cara. Ósea te daba un temor horrible. Pero, hoy yo no los vi así. También la ciudad, pero ejemplo el centro de San Salvador, antes uno ni podría caminar ni con un teléfono en la mano. Hoy si. Es turístico. Parece una cuidad europea. Done uno puede caminar por las calles hasta la media noche en el propio centro. Yo nunca había visto eso así nunca en mi vida antes. Eso es súper bonito volver a regresar que esta mas seguro en ese sentido. Puede ser todas esas cosas. Pero, sin embargo, lo que yo y no se. No lo vi. Pero lo que yo e visto es que lo, no es tanto los maderos, pero es mas el crimen organizado. Entonces, ahora este crimen organizado, la gente se viste bien. Ya no se visten como los de antes, no que eran ladrones tradicionales. Si no gente que anda en su propio carro haciendo sus negocios, ¿no? Eso si no lo vi no lo se, pero eso me contaron, pero si. No vi ese tipo de madero tradicional que nos asustaban en las calles, por ejemplo, no vi eso.
MC: Claro. ¿Y cuando fue esos diez años, cuando dejo de ir? ¿Que año fue?
SVP: Yo deje di ir desde el 2000. 2008 al 2018. 2020. Por ahí. 2018.
MC: Ok. ¿Entonces desde el 2018, es cuando regreso apenas?
SVP: Aja. Aja.
MC: ¿Y cuanto tiempo se quedo allá?
SVP: Me quede por diez—doce días.
MC: Oh. Ok.
SVP: Y después regrese este año otra vez. Bueno el año pasado entonces ahora no quiero--. Quiero ir cada dos años. Porque, es tan lindo El Salvador. El Salvador es hermoso. Las playas. Es que, todo. Me encanta. Entonces, ahora no voy a dejar tanto tiempo.
MC: Si.
SVP: Solamente tener cuidado cuando uno viaja y si voy a ir mas.
MC: Si. Claro. Pues me da gusto que puedas volver ahora.
SVP: Si.
MC: Que no es tan peligroso que antes.
SVP: Si.
MC: --Pero. ¿Todavía tienes familia allá?
SVP: Oh. Primos. Tíos. Mis amigas están allá. Pero mi familia inmediata todos están en Estados Unidos ahora.
MC: Todos. Ok. Y, bueno, hablando un poquito sobre eso. ¿Cuándo se mudaron ellos? ¿Se mudaron contigo o después?
SVP: Después. Después. Yo vine en 2004. Y creo que mi hermano se vino el siguiente en 2005. Mi hermana en el siguiente en el 2006. Tres o cuatro años despues mi otra hermana y después mi mama. Y, mi única hermana que no pudo a Estados Unidos se fue a Italia.
MC: Oh.
SVP: Ella vive en Italia ahora porque no, no a podido viajar. No a podido venirse a Estados Unidos. Ahora ella puede visitar porque nos viene a visitar desde Italia, pero no vive en Estados Unidos.
MC: Claro. Ok. Otra pregunta que tenia, mas sobre su infancia o creciendo en su tiempo en El Salvador. Quería preguntarle sobre el clima. Los problemas, le decimos climate change.
SVP: Aja. Aja.
MC: Del ambiente.
SVP: Aja.
MC: ¿Usted-- que tipo de problemas experimento allá? ¿Que fue su experiencia con huracanes o temblores?
SVP: Terremotos. Mhm. La otra cosa es que por si ubicación geográfica El Salvador esta exactamente situado en unas placas tectónicas. Entonces, El Salvador, como te dije, es el valle de las hamacas. Tiembla constantemente. Pero, cada diez años es un estimado, ¿no? Cada diez o doce años hay un terremoto grande que afecta la gente y mi primera experiencia con un terremoto grande fue en el 86 que recuerdo que yo no sabia como era eso hasta que lo pasamos y me dijeron eso fue un terremoto. Y recuerdo que el primer terremoto yo estaba en quinto grado. Y estamos en las clases y de repente temblaba y todo mundo gritaba. No entendíamos. Yo no entendía que estaba pasando porque, si sabíamos que es un temblor, pero no un terremoto. Pero podríamos ver todo el edificio doblado a la derecha a la izquierda. El cielo falso de las casas, de la escuela se cayo. Paredes rajadas. Y, pánico. Todo mundo corriendo. Otros llorando. Todos nos abrazamos. Y desde entonces me recuerdo que empezamos hacer como capacitaciones, ¿no? Que hacer en caso de terremoto. Meterse abajo del pupite. Nadie hace eso. Todo el mundo sale corriendo [riza].
MC: [riza]
SVP: Pero no, eso fue mi primera experiencia y recuerdo que mi mama nos llevo a recoger al colegio. Todas estábamos llorando. Nos fuimos a la casa. No había luz por días. Hubo un colegio católico de niñas que se desplomo totalmente. Hubieron cientos y cientos de muertos. Un edificio principal en el centro de San Salvador, la capital, centro de San Salvador se colapso también. Y había un restaurante donde íbamos de chiquitas que vendían unos-- decíamos unos frescos de ensalada que es un refresco de fruta picada que todo el mundo le gustaba sentarse como un bar. Y todos sentamos ahí pedir una ensalada grande. Ese se desplomo también. Ósea muertos y muertos. Y recuerdo que habían gente de México, Estados Unidos, que llegaron ayudar a encontrar todos eso muertos. Con el tiempo cuando la luz regreso podíamos ver las noticias y darnos cuenta que era mas grave que lo que pensábamos. Y bueno la vida continua, ¿no? Entonces, eso fue en octubre.
MC: Fue en mil novecientos….
SVP: 86.
MC: 86.
SVP: Mhm. Y recuerdo que la escuela termino, todo el colegio el sistema educativo termino 3 semanas antes de lo normal. Todo mundo paso de grado. [riza]
MC: Si, verdad. [riza]
SVP: [riza] Porque nadie hizo los exámenes finales.
MC: [riza] Claro. No.
SVP: Bueno, la vida continua. En enero todos comenzamos las clases y todo. Eso fue mi primer experiencia. La ultima experiencia que yo recuerdo fue en el 2001. Es interesante porque esta, este fue otro terremoto que experimente. Hubo uno en febrero, enero y uno en febrero. Con un mes de diferencia. Y este nos toco cerca mi familia porque en enero hubo el—ese terremoto fue fuertísimo y recuerdo que todo mundo empieza a llamar, ¿no? Las líneas están saturadas porque todo el mundo esta llamando todo mundo.
MC: Están chequeando en la familia.
SVP: Si. Como esta fulano, ósea, todo mundo. Y recuerdo que fue fuerte en este cantón que se llamaba Molineros de donde es mi abuelita. Y recuerdo que las paredes estaban quebradas. Rajadas. Algunas de lado listas para caerse. Las casas, todas las casas se dañaron en esta comunidad. Y bueno, otra vez la vida continua. Seguimos trabajando. En febrero exactamente el mes, hay otro segundo terremoto. Enorme. Fuerte. No recuerdo que escala fue, pero tiene que ver sido mas de siete punto algo porque de ahí para arriba todo es tragedia. Y recuerdo que las casas que habían quedado dañadas se desplomaron. Y empezaron a llamar la familia que habían perdido todo. La comunidad de mi abuelita salió afectada. Perdimos unos de nuestros mejores amigos de la familia. Que la noche anterior habíamos estado en el Cantón y yo le había dicho vámonos a la casa porque abecés el se iba a vivir con nosotros por una semana.
MC: ¿En tu, en tu cuidad?
SVP: En la comunidad de mi abuelita y el venia a mi cuidad y se quedaba con nosotros. Y el no quiso venir. El dijo no, no me siento bien. Y yo: that’s why. Por eso debes de irte. Así te podemos dar medicina y tratamiento y el no quiso, pero murió el siguiente día. Hubieron varios muertos en la comunidad porque le cayeron las paredes en sima a la gente. Y recuerdo que mi mama, mi mama era la salvadora siempre. Mi mama cualquier problema que había en el cantón le llamaban. Mi mama sabia como solucionar. Y me acuerdo que mi mami dice vamos, tenemos que ir. La gente tiene hambre. No hay agua. En este entonces, no había agua potable. Gente sacaba agua de los posos. Pero los posos se secaron porque hubieron derrumbes. No había agua. No había comida. No había nada. Entonces me recuerdo que fuimos a comprar plátanos, pan, arroz, frijoles y llevábamos. Y era un--era tenebroso. Íbamos y veíamos todas las casas tiradas hasta-- porque esta comunidad como una hora y media. Y nos dio miedo. De verdad. Todas las calles había grietas. Habían hoyos. Hubo una maestra que la tierra se abrió y la tierra se la trago. Pero, como la tierra se habría y se cerraba ella no se fue totalmente todo su cuerpo, pero se quedo hasta la cintura.
MC: Si.
SVP: La tierra la apretaba y la abría y la apretaba y le quebró las piernas. Eso fue en la comunidad de mi abuelita. Y cuando llegamos allá yo me acuerdo que toda mi familia estaban bañados en tierra. Les callo como un balde de tierra. Las pestañas blancas. El pelo blanco porque las casas se cayeron y toda esa tierra les cayo encima. Mi prima, por ejemplo, ella trato de agarrarse de algo y si agarro de un alambre de púa y tenia todas las manos rascadas, los pies raspados porque cuando corrieron se cayeron y se raspaban. Los muertos estaban en el, en la plaza central por decir algo en el parque central y era tenebroso. Era horrible. Mientras tanto, seguía temblando y seguía temblando y las casa ya no- las casas que se quedaron paradas todavía teníamos miedo qué fueran a colapsar. No se si dormimos o no dormimos esa noche. Fue—nos dio miedo de verdad. Pero mi mama tenia que llevar comida para todos y fuimos y todos, ósea, yo creo que yo tenia como unos 22 o 23 años.
MC: Si.
SVP: Mhm. Ya estábamos mayores, pero todavía era algo que no podíamos controlar. Un desastre natural fuerte. Eso fue el ultimo y fue triste. Fue muy triste. De ahí, cosas buenas vienen porque hay mucha ayuda de otros países. Y la gente, mucha gente le construyeron las casas. Llego el agua potable. Ahora la gente ya no tiene que usar mucho los posos. Ya corre el agua y cosas así. Pero, fue triste. Fue muy duro. Eso por terremotos. ¿No se si quieres que cuente de huracanes? [riza]
MC: Si. Claro. Si también. Si, yo se que, pues El Salvador es, ahí esta en el medio de Centroamérica donde esta el mar. Entonces, si. ¿Que fue su experiencia con huracanes?
SVP: El huracán que yo viví de cerca fue el huracán Mitch y uh—
MC: ¿Que año fue eso?
SVP: En el, quiero decir en el 98.
MC: Ok.
SVP: Pero no estoy segura tenemos que buscar eso. Porque no estoy segura si fue en el 98. Pero, si, empezó a llover un día, dos días. Y otra vez como, ósea uno-- nunca habíamos pasado por un huracán. Entendemos exactamente pero el huracán también puede pasar de categoría uno, dos y sube y uno nunca sabe hasta donde va pasar, ¿no?
MC: Y en ese tiempo, ¿eso fue el, como el primer huracán que tu tuviste esa experiencia?
SVP: El único que e visto daño grande grave o daños exagerados—
MC: --Claro. Si.
SVP: -- O daños que, si mato gente, conocidos o en el que yo tome acción, ¿no? Ya esta en el 98 pues yo era parte de la asociación scouts de El Salvador con mis amigas allá y mi mejor amiga que es otra como mi hermana. Y me acuerdo que ella me dice, tenemos que ir. Tenemos que colaborar. Tenemos que irnos ahí para ayudar. A la asociación y a le gente, ¿no? Los scouts se iban como la cruz roja a ayudar. Había-- porque mucha gente vivía a la orilla de los ríos. Entonces es peligrosísimo ir a evacuar la gente, llevar comida, ropa, porque todo el mundo pierde todo. Entonces, me acuerdo que, nos fuimos a la asociación scouts a ayudar. Ellas mas que yo porque yo en un momento que ya nadie podía salir de las casas. Y mis amigas llegaron antes para ayudar. Yo ya no pude llegar porque nadie podía manejar ni salir a ningún lado. Era tan peligroso. Los vientos botaron arboles, los palos, los postes de eléctrico. Entonces, no había luz y bueno, accidentes por todos lados. Desborde de ríos que es lo peor yo pienso que puede haber. Bueno, entonces yo no ayude mucho, pero mis amigas si. Y otra vez, es como volver a reconstruir el país. Imagínate en el 98 tenemos este huracán que mata tanta gente, que trae tanta destrucción. Mas pobreza. Ya no hay empleos porque toda esta gente que perdió sus negocios no pueden volver a empezar y contratar otra gente. Entonces mucha gente sin—mucha gente con desempleo. En el 98 y en el 2001 los terremotos y El Salvador, el país a sido golpeado por todos lados.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Y la guerra civil antes de eso. Y las maras. Entonces, la gente es súper resilente. Y yo abecés no me explico como somos normales. [riza] Después de pasar tantas cosas terribles.
MC: Si.
SVP: Es muchas tragedias, pero también la gente a mi me--la gente salvadoreña y no es porque sea salvadoreña pero los salvadoreños siempre tienen una actitud positiva. Siempre trabajan mas de lo que tienen que trabajar. Dan mas. Comprarte hasta lo que no tienen. Y mucha gente se queda sin comer lo que, su comida por darle al otro, aunque el otro tenga mas. No importa. Hay que compartir. Es increíble. Y así son los salvadoreños.
MC: Si.
SVP: Entonces, esos dos, esos dos desastres naturales han afectado a El Salvador bastante.
MC: Claro. Me imagino. ¿Y el gobierno de El Salvador que, como ayudaron? ¿No se si ayudaron o no en tu opinión? ¿Como ayudaron ellos durante esos problemas de naturaleza?
SVP: Lo que pasa es que es difícil saber. Generalmente lo que yo viví es que siempre hay un montón de corrupción. Lo que yo vi y lo vi a nivel personal en la comunidad de mi abuelita, por ejemplo. Es que hay mucha ayuda extranjera. Sin limites. Ósea, yo recuerdo que llegaban camiones y camiones para regalar comida, para regalar ropa, para regalar medicina. Pero hay corrupción al nivel del gobierno y al nivel de sub gobierno y comunitario. Yo me acuerdo que los lideres comunitarios en esta comunidad es como, estos zapatos para mi nieto. Esta, esta comida, reste arroz que se veía mas fino que esta, que es mas caro para mi familia. Llegaba una pipa de agua. Es como un camión grande no, que lleva el agua. La pipa de agua y muchas veces los lideres no querían avisar la comunidad para cuando la pipa llega, sus familiares son los primeros. No había mucha igualdad. Ahí era el que era el mas fuerte. El mas vivo. El que tenia mas poder. Y lo mismo paso en el nivel gubernamental. Los que se benefician mas son los que tienen mas poder. Entonces, el gobierno si ayudo en el sentido de que tienen buenas relaciones internacionales con otros países. Que los otros países llevan cosas, a donar y regalar. Porque a nivel mundial, todo mundo estaba recaudado comida, ropa, víveres, lo que sea para mandar a El Salvador. Y se recibió una ayuda increíble. Ahora, si la gente la recibió o no la recibió no, no se. La comunidad de mi abuelita era de fácil acceso. Muy accesible. Y yo vi que llego ayuda. Pero hay otras comunidades que eran muy, muy, mas difícil de acezar que tal ves no recibieron nada.
MC: Claro.
SVP: Pero también hay unas comunidades que recibieron casas construidas totalmente, por ejemplo. Pero también con ayuda extranjera. No necesariamente del gobierno salvadoreño.
MC: Claro. Si. ¿Y en ese tiempo de los huracanes y los terremotos, tuvieron otras experiencias con lo de la naturaleza o el clima?
AVP: ¿Que mas? A ver, estoy tratando de pensar. Yo recuerdo que antes en octubre en el salvador teníamos muchos los famosos vientos de octubre.
MC: Ok.
AVP: Y era un viento-- era tan interesante porque todo mundo en octubre se ponía los suéteres mas gruesos. Todos los labios reventados. Tenían que ponerse manteca de cacao que uno compra por 25 cinco centavos, un pedacito. Y después con el tiempo esos vientos ya no, no los recuerdo en mi vida mas. En mis años 20, 24. No habían esos vientos. Pero antes, cuando estaba pequeña, si. Era un frio enorme. Era fuerte. Pero eso si cambio. Eso si cambio mucho. Y ahora como no estoy allá en octubre, no se si están los vientos o no. Pero si recuerdo que siempre El Salvador también a tenido problemas de sequia en donde solamente llueve de mayo hasta noviembre, abecés octubre. Ya no llueve en noviembre. Abecés una o dos llovidas en noviembre y ya no mas. Y eso siempre a sido bien particular. Era clarito. Primera lluvia de mayo y termine en octubre o noviembre. Y eso no se como a cambiado porque ya son muchos años que estoy aquí. No tengo tanto tiempo allá para ver si eso esta ahí o no o a cambiado.
MC: Si. Y yo me imagino que, en esos tiempos, eso la afecta mucho. Como El Salvador es un lugar donde hay mucha milpa. ¿Verdad? Y me imagino que eso afecto mucho a los trabajadores en la milpa.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Que están cosechando.
SVP: Claro. Si hay sequia no van a producir tanto maíz. La base principal es maíz y frijoles. Entonces, si hay una sequia, no llueve no hay frijoles, no hay maíz, que va comer la gente?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Si. Es critico.
MC: Claro. Y tu crees, o como piensas que tu crees, que eso ha cambiado en los últimos años en El Salvador. ¿Todavía están teniendo experiencia con terremotos y huracanes, como vez eso?
SVP: Bueno, afortunadamente, yo se que tiembla porque yo puedo ver en los medios sociales. ¡Todo el mundo temblor! Todos están bien. Pero no habido un terremoto grande como en el de 2001, por ejemplo. No a pasado algo tan fuerte por ahora. Sigue temblando lo cuales esta bien porque esa energía se necesita de sacar para que no haya un terremoto grande. Entonces, los temblores medianos y pequeños son necesarios, pero no habido uno tan grande, tampoco un huracán tan grande. Sin embargo, si ha habido inundaciones y tormentas o temporales. Pero no un huracán tan grande como ese.
MC: Claro. Y todo eso afecta las comunidades, especialmente las comunidades locales, pequeñas. Que es tu opinión. ¿Tu crees que es una razón que la gente se a mudado de El Salvador?
SVP: Claro. Si. Si. Yo recuerdo que después de los huracanes, mucha gente inmigro. Hay, ¿no puedo recordar cual fue el este, que fue el huracán Mitch, probablemente? Oh, había otra que mucha gente se vino a los Estados Unidos por eso. De echo, muchos les dieron el TPS. El temporal employment status. Les dieron TPS si ellos emigraron en los tiempos de estos desastres naturales, esta gente que se vino en ese tiempo fue incluida en este programa TPS con inmigración. Porque muchos emigraron debido a los desastres naturales y los terremotos también.
MC: Wow.
SVP: Eso beneficiaron del TPS por haber ido en ese tiempo de, como te digo. Si alguien perdió su negocio, de donde va empezar? El gobierno no le va dar nada. Y claro, la familia de los Estados Unidos ayuda. Pero, es casi imposible poder levantar un negocio teniendo uno o dos miembros que te ayudan solamente.
MC: Claro. Tu piensas que incluso a los Estados Unidos, la gente se mudo a otros países- SVP: --Si. Si.
MC: -- Como, no se, ¿Honduras, Guatemala o México?
SVP: Si. Si. Ok, so, Centroamérica no mucho porque todo Centroamérica esta como en misma posición [riza]. Y pasamos por Honduras y Guatemala y México para la gente que quiere llegar finalmente a Estados Unidos. Pero mucha gente se fue para Italia. Mucha gente se ha ido a España. No se que otros países, pero e conocido mucha gente que-- mi hermana por ejemplo esta en Italia.
MC: Si. Es interesante porque yo-- es algo nuevo para mi. Yo no sabia que le gente se fue a esos países.
SVP: Si.
MC: ¿Que es esa conexión? ¿Porque era tan popular que la gente se iba a Italia o España?
SVP: Yo creo que era la forma de entrar al país. No era tan estricta. No se necesita una visa. O si les dan visa, no estoy segura, pero si les dan visa, lo requisitos para obtener una visa son mucho mas fáciles y accesibles que una visa en Estados Unidos.
MC: Claro.
SVP: O económicamente es mas fácil irse a Italia. Tal vez el boleto, no se si el boleto sea mas barato, pero creo que le entrada a esos países es mucho mas fácil que Estados Unidos, por ejemplo.
MC: Claro. Si. Bueno. Y quiero hablar un poquito, Soraya, sobre-- hablamos un poquito sobre la guerra civil. Eso paso en 1979 a mil 1992.
SVP: Hasta los 90s. Mhm.
MC: ¿Tu viviste sobre, un parte de eso, me imagino?
SVP: Si. Si. Si.
MC: ¿Cuantos años tenias y que recuerdas de ese tiempo?
SVP: Lo que mas recuerdo fue el final. En los 90, 92. Ya tenia yo, ¿que 15 años? Tal vez. Recuerdo cuando estábamos bien chiquititas. Pero ejemplo, te conté que íbamos a la casa de mi abuelita y pasábamos entre la casa de mi mama y mi abuelita. En Molineros yo recuerdo muchas veces que era una guerra civil. Estaba el lado del ejercito militar y los guerrilleros. Y yo me acuerdo que en la comunidad de mi abuelita abecés llegaban los guerrilleros. Y todo el mundo salían corriendo a esconderse porque teníamos miedo. Primero porque la guerrilla llegaba y reclutaba a todos los jovencitos, hombres y mujeres. Te guste o no te gusta te vas a unir a la guerrilla. Y después llegaban los soldados a reclutar a los jóvenes. Solamente hombres, pero reclutaban. Entonces, la mayoría de los jóvenes lo que hacían era esconderse porque no querían ni unirse ni a un bando ni al otro. Cada quien quería estar con sus familias. Yo acuerdo que estábamos bien chiquititas y hubo una vez que si recuerdo muy bien. Llegaron los guerrillos y pusieren una bancarta en la, en la casa principal. En la avenida principal donde esta la casa de mi abuelita, solo pusieron en la casa de mi abuelita, y decía el FMLN no se, no recuerdo que decía. Pero yo recuerdo que estábamos con mi primo. Mi primo nos puso todos en el cuarto. Aquí vamos a estar. Todos tranquilitos y los guerrilleros fue-- pasaron al patio a tomar agua. Estábamos como escondidos, ¿no? Esperando que se vayan. Y eso era terrible porque los guerrilleros se iban y después llegaba el ejercito. ¿Que estaban haciendo aquí? Ustedes los apoyan. Ustedes les dan comida. Y realmente los guerrilleros obligaron a la gente comida también. Entonces era—no queríamos apoyar ni uno ni al otro. Pero nos encontrábamos en medio de los dos bandos por accidente, coincidencia. Y recuerdo esa experiencia. Recuerdo muchas veces cuando mi familia iba hablar que fulano de tal desapareció. Dicen que se lo llevo la guerrilla. Otros dicen que el se unió a la guerrilla. Y pasaron años y años y muchos amigos de mi mama nunca los encontraron. Sus cuerpos, no se supo nada que paso. No se supo.
MC: Desaparecieron.
SVP: Desaparecieron. Había una historia que mi mama siempre contaba y me, siempre me la imagino que este amigo a la media noche, se tuvo que esconder porque llego el gobierno, los militares, buscándolo. Y el se subió a un palo y paso toda la noche subido en un árbol.
MC: Escondiéndose.
SVP: Escondiéndose. Esperando que se fueran para poder salir, por ejemplo. Eso es cuando estaba chiquita. Después, en los en, entre los nueve y quince años de mi vida recuerdo que, si había muchos problemas en cuanto, sabotearon la planta eléctrica. Entonces, de arrepiente no vamos a tener electricidad por días. O, quemaron un bus en forma de protesta. Entonces no vamos a tener transporte. Hubo una gran matanza que se llama La Matanza del Mozote donde el gobierno fue y mato comunidades enteras. Una comunidad, por ejemplo.
MC: ¿Con niños y mujeres?
SVP: Todos. Todos. Todos. Yo no recuerdo esa noticia. Yo me di cuenta y leí de eso cuando era mas adulta. Pues yo no recuerdo eso estar en las noticias porque mi mama me hablaba o me contaba eso y yo, nunca. Era como trataban de protegernos de ese tipo de historias. Eso, fue pequeña, entonces yo no me acuerdo bien que pasó en esos años. Sabíamos que había guerra. Oíamos. Le veíamos. De repente no va ver luz por una semana, por ejemplo. No hay electricidad. Lo que recuerdo también fue-- o y recuerdo una vez cuando íbamos a la casa de mi abuelita y pasábamos por esta calle, un callejón. Y recuerdo que iba mi primo que es, era adulto, y mi mama, mas o menos de la misma edad. Mi abuelita. O, íbamos al entierro a mi bis abuelito y recuerdo que íbamos caminando y recuerdo que todos nos dijeron, cierren los ojos. Y íbamos caminando. Yo cerré los ojos y yo recuerdo que mi primo me agarro y yo cerré. Fui honesta. Pero mis dos hermanas no cerraron los ojos. Porque claro, tenían curiosidad. Y una vio el cuerpo en un lado y la otra fue la cabeza de este cuerpo en el otro lado. Entonces, ella si tienen ese recuerdo fuerte. Pero yo, si cerré los ojos, pero ellas vieron eso. Después, me acuerdo en el 92 cuando fue la defensiva final que esa si nos toco cerca porque nuestra casa estaba como a diez minutos de la fuerza armada. De donde esta todo de la fuerza armada, ¿no? Y esa fue la final. Me recuerdo que estábamos en la calle jugando y ya oíamos disparos. Y las noticias empezaba decir que todos teníamos que estarnos en la casa. Quedarnos ahí. Y recuerdo que, pues, pusimos el radio y nos dimos cuenta algo esta pasando. Y empezaron a decir que ya la guerrilla había atacado esta zona. Y la guerrilla iba ganando. Y el punto de ellos era tomar la fuerza armada. Entonces para eso tenían que pasar por mi casa para la fuerza armada. Antes de eso tenían que pasar por la casa de mi mejor amiga. Entonces, mi mejor amiga me llamo que en su colonia que esta tres minutos, cinco minutos de mi casa, la guerrilla estaba caminando casa por casa por casa para avanzar. Entonces, estaban las casas están pegaditas, ¿no?
MC: Si. Mhm.
SVP: Entonces estaban abriendo hoyos en las paredes para avanzar por dentro de las casas. Y recuerdo que una de las noches cayo una llamada a mi casa. Y yo conteste y ellos me dijeron que eran los del FMLN, la guerrilla. Que teníamos que desocupar la casa en ese momento porque ellos la iban a usar. Yo tire el teléfono. Yo no podía hablar. Estaba como, sentí el agua caliente que corría por todo mi cuerpo. Y todos me decían: ¿Qué, que, que? Yo no podía hablar. No quería decirle porque iba dar miedo. Pero al mismo tiempo yo estaba llorando. Tenemos que irnos de aquí ya. Y recuerdo que esa noche nos fuimos a dormir en la casa de vecino porque lo que pasaba es que mi casa era la ultima casa. Iba ser la primera casa de ser atacada para poder avanzar por las otras casas. No fuimos a dormir en casa del vecino y a la media noche llegaron a disparar increíblemente como nunca había oído yo. Tan cerca las balas. Y se fueron y no paso nada.
MC: ¿En cuando paso eso, adonde se fueron? ¿Se fueron de la casa? ¿En donde se fueron?
SVP: Si. Si. Si. Nos fuimos. Pero antes de todo eso llego un carro. Lo abandonaron en frente de mi casa. Era un jeep abandonado. Bueno, estaba como una cuadra de mi casa y después lo manejaron enfrente de mi casa. El jeep estaba lleno de armas. Y creo que la idea era que la gente tomara las armas y se uniera a la guerrilla, ¿no? Pero lo que paso fue que la gente se robo las armas que con el tiempo usaron las armas para ser actos criminales. Entonces las pandillas básicamente usaron todas esas armas por decir algo. Eso fue uno. El otro fue que había- en mi casa estaban construyendo una calle nueva, entonces del gobierno había una casita con miles de herramientas de construcción. La guerrilla llego allá y le dijo al vigilante con la pistola, ¿no? Nos tienen que prestar las pala, piocha, todo para ir. Lo vamos a usar y lo vamos a traer en la mañana. Se lo llevaron en la media noche supuestamente era para abrir tumbas y enterrar a los muertos. Y a las cuatro de la mañana regresaron todito. Ósea, no robaron a la gente, pero si nos atemorizaban, ¿no? Lo regresaron todo. No se robaron nada. Entonces, después de cinco o, creo que duro siete días todo, pero después de tres días, nos fuimos de la colonia. Nos tuvimos que ir y nos fuimos a casa de una tía que vivía en una, en otra ciudad. Pero donde no estaba pasando nada porque estaba pasando mas que todo, nuestra comunidad porque iban atacar la fuerza armada. Nos fuimos para donde mi tía pasamos ahí unos cinco o seis días. No recuerdo muy bien.
MC: Si.
SVP: Y después regresamos a la casa ya cuando todo había acabado. Pero en eso podíamos ver que habían quemado la fabrica, unas de las fabricas mas grandes de San Salvador – de El Salvador. Se llama la Diana. Y lo podríamos que esta el otro lado de la cuidad. Podíamos ver hasta el otro lado el humo. Era un chaos total.
MC: Wow. ¿Y esa casa, era donde tu creciste?
SVP: Aja. Si.
MC: ¿La misma casa?
SVP: Si. La misma casa donde yo crecí. Y vivía por, estuvimos ahí por mas de 28 años. Bueno, todavía mi mama tiene la casa.
MC: ¿Sí? ¿Todavía?
SVP: [riza]
MC: Wow.
SVP: Entonces ella a tenido esta casa por 45 años. [riza]
MC: Wow. Que historia y que miedo.
SVP: Si. Ahora que recuerdo vivíamos en miedo. [riza]
MC: No me puedo imaginar eso.
SVP: Si.
MC: Bueno, cambiando un poquito el tema, después de todo eso, como usted, ¿como tu no se. ¿Como llegaste a los Estados Unidos? ¿O qué paso después de todo eso?
SVP: Si. Entonces después de todo eso, en 2001 fue el año del terremoto. Mhm. Y bueno hay esta asociación que se llama Cuerpo de Paz y mi esposo es de Kansas City originalmente y el se fue a El Salvador como Cuerpo de Paz. Eso es interesante porque primero el viaje de el tenia que salir en Septiembre pero por las- se cayeron la torres gemelas cuando paso ese tentado. Su viaje se tubo que retrasar—
MC: Posponer.
SVP: Mhm. Llego mucho mas después de lo que habían pensado. Ese terremoto había pasado en enero. El llego en noviembre, pero la carretera principal todavía estaba cerrada. La panamericana que corre por todo sur américa y Centroamérica. Estaba cerrada por el terremoto. Entonces, conocí a mi esposo una vez que estábamos manejando y mi prima estaba manejando y todos mis otros primos, hermanos, amigos, estábamos en el pickup. En una troca como les dicen los mexicanos. [riza] Estábamos atrás todos y mi esposo estaba pidiendo un ride. Quería que alguien lo llevara. Y mi primo paro y lo subimos ahí. Pero el vivía en, con otro primo como estaba en capacitación. El vivía allá. Lo conocía si y lo conocí como voluntario de paz. Mientras era voluntario fuimos novios por dos años y nos casamos. Y por eso yo me vine a Estados Unidos. Pero yo pienso también que, si yo no me hubiera casado con el, yo me hubiera venido de todas maneras. De alguna manera hubiera llegado a Estados Unidos o otro país porque la situación era terrible en El Salvador.
MC: ¿Por lo mismo?
SVP: Mhm.
MC: ¿De todo?
SVP: De todo. Lo que te e contado. [riza]
MC: Wow.
SVP: Si. Si.
MC: Entonces, que linda historia como conoció su esposo. ¿Eso paso en 2001?
SVP: En el 2001 nos conocimos. Nos casamos en el 2004 y llegue aquí en el 2004 cuando tenia 28 años.
MC: ¿28 años?
SVP: Aja. Y tuve que aprender ingles porque yo no sabia- bueno, mientras fuimos novios tomé clases de ingles todos los días por dos horas. Todos días. Y yo pensaba que yo sabia un montón. [riza] Y yo llegue aquí y alguien me preguntaba algo y yo solo con la cabeza decía si o decía no. No tenia ni voz. No quería ni usar mi voz. Y cualquier cosa yo iba responderle a mi esposo en español. Mi esposo iba traducir. Y después de un mes, mi esposo dice yo estoy cansado de estar traduciendo. Esto no puede pasar. Tiene que hablar ingles. ¡Y yo no puedo! ¡No puedo! [riza]
MC: ¿Entonces cuando conoció a su esposo, en ese tiempo, no sabias ingles?
SVP: ¡No!
MC: El sabia un poquito de español?
SVP: ¡Si! Si. Si. Y en su capacitación. En su capacitación que ellos reciben en el Cuerpo de Paz lo cual es genial para cualquier persona que quiera aprender español. La capacitación de Cuerpo de Paz es lo mejor. Así el aprendió. Pero el también tenia maestros, ósea, yo. Su maestra privada. [riza] Pero también mi familia. Todo el tiempo le estamos enseñado. Y el quería aprender español. Y yo siempre quise aprender ingles. Y podía, pero no era la realidad como yo pensaba que eso era. No. Es difícil. [riza]
MC: ¿Como era ese proceso para ti? ¿Se casaron en El Salvador y después se mudo y como fue ese proceso de inmigración? ¿Tuvo que agarrar su visa?
SVP: Si.
MC: ¿Me puede contar un poco?
SVP: Afortunadamente nosotros teníamos mi familia y yo teníamos visa de turistas. Entonces yo podía entrar al país como turista. Entonces, venimos aquí para pasar tiempo con su familia y decidimos no, no vale la pena regresar al El Salvador, solicitar los papeles allá y esperar dos años. Mejor nos quedamos aquí en los Estados Unidos. Va ser mas fácil. Fui a vivir a Kansas City por seis meses. Bueno no. Vivimos allá por un año. Y mientras tanto, pues esperando los papeles y yo empecé dar clases privadas de español. Y, mi esposo trabajaba como mantenimiento en un edificio. Y así el solicito para una beca para poder estudiar. Y recibió una beca aquí en Carolina del Norte. Y por eso no venimos para acá para Carolina del Norte. Pero el proceso es duro. Es costoso. Esta uno en incertidumbre. Porque el no podía comprarme seguro medico si no tener un numero de seguro social, por ejemplo. Y exactamente no tengo seguro social, no tengo seguro medico, y me enfermo y tengo que ir—tuve que ir al hospital. Y después esta gran cuente, ¿no? Que uno tiene que pagar. Aparte de todo es, en Kansas City no había muchos latinos allá. Entonces yo solamente pasaba tiempo con gente que hablaba español-en ingles. Y era bueno porque aprendía un montón, pero estaba, estaba deprimiéndome. Como no hablan mi idioma. No hay música. No hay comida que me gusta. No esta mi familia. No están mis amigos. La familia de mi esposo me trato bien. Y yo era la reina. Me trataban súper bien. Querían hacerme feliz, pero me hacia falta lo que yo estaba acostumbrada, ¿no?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Y después de eso aun que uno es un adulto, un profesional, yo tengo una carrera, pero porque tengo un acento fuerte en ingles, todavía la gente piensa que uno no es tan inteligente porque no hablo ni ingles bien o no entiende tal palabra uno no es inteligente. Pero si es. Lo que pasa es que aprender lenguas no es fácil. [riza]
MC: Claro que no.
SVP: Entonces-- y tratan como un niño. Te hablan como un niño pequeño.
MC: O te hablan mas despacio.
SVP: O te gritan. Bueno no, yo escucho bien pero no puedo entender. Entonces, es todas esas cosas son como de repente uno dice, yo no quiero estar aquí. Ya me quiero ir a mi casa. Pero después con el tiempo, uno se acostumbra. Aprende. Sabe no, este es mi casa hoy.
MC: Si. Y eso, cuando usted se mudo aquí en Carolina del Norte, ¿que año fue eso?
SVP: En el 2004. No. No. No. El 2005 a Carolina del Norte.
MC: Y es porque su esposo es el que agarro –
SVP: --Una beca en la universidad primero y bueno la idea era que nosotros tenemos familia en Maryland y que yo iba estar mas cerca que la familia, pero todavía esta lejos entonces nunca visite a nadie allá. Empecé trabajar aquí mientras yo podía ser residente en Carolina del Norte y empecé a solicitar una beca para mi para poder estudiar también porque realmente yo siempre quería ser, quería enseñar. Yo siempre e sido una educadora. Pero me di cuenta que si uno no tiene educación es difícil encontrar un trabajo estable y hacer lo que te gusta. Me dieron una beca al final pude hacer una – me dieron como una asistencia y pude trabajar y estudiar y también fuimos los dos a la Universidad Estatal de Carolina del Norte.
MC: ¿NC State?
SVP: NC State. Si.
MC: Que bueno. ¿Que estudio ahí?
SVP: Saque una maestría en artes. Para enseñar-- poder enseñar español.
MC: Que bueno. Y es lo que esta haciendo ahorita, ¿verdad?
SVP: Si. Es lo que hago hoy, bueno tengo algunos trabajos. Soy como tu, que me gusta ser de todo. Si hay algo que quiero hacer, lo hago. Y me encanta. Entonces, si. Enseño español en esta universidad Lenoir Rhyne. Es una universidad privada. Pequeña. Y los estudiantes, todo es personalizado. Antes enseñe en la Universidad Estatal, también trabaje como profesora de español allá por unos años antes de irnos al Cuerpo de Paz. Y cuando regresamos del Cuerpo de Paz me vine a trabajar a esta universidad.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Puedes hablar un poco de tu experiencia en el cuerpo de paz? Como fue eso porque tu también participaste.
SVP; ¡Si!
MC: ¿Que programa y cuando fue? ¿Me puede contar un poco de eso?
SVP: Entonces después de que me gradué de la universidad, trabajé allá en – me contrataron para trabajar como una instructora de español y cuando mi esposo era voluntario yo siempre quería trabajar. Me encantaba su trabajo y en El Salvador nos dimos cuenta que las mujeres no confían en un hombre tanto. Entonces, tenían pena de hablar con un hombre. Siempre pensamos ha de ser chévere como pareja, hacerlo como pareja. Porque los hombres pueden trabajar con los hombres, las mujeres con las mujeres o pueden experimentar que se puede trabajar hombre con mujer, mujer con hombre. Y siempre queríamos irnos al Cuerpo de Paz y bueno adoptamos una niña. Es mi sobrina que tenia 15 años y cuando ella se graduó de la escuela secundaria dijimos ok. Ella ya se puede ir. Nosotros también nos podemos ir. Nos fuimos al Cuerpo de Paz y no seleccionaron para ir a Panamá. Nos fuimos a Panamá y fuimos a vivir en una comunidad indígena. Bueno, Panamá es un país rico porque tienes el Canal y ganan millones diario. Pero los millones no llegan a las comunidades indígenas. Entonces, vivimos en una comunidad donde no había agua potable ni había electricidad. Teníamos que filtrar el agua. Teníamos que hacer todo en el día cuando había luz solar, ¿no? Nos fuimos a vivir allá por tres años y como siempre e estado de la educación y siempre me a gustado en el empoderamiento de mujeres. Creamos un grupo que se llamaba Universidad al Campo donde seleccionábamos jóvenes que querían ir a la universidad y los preparábamos para ir a la universidad. Los llevamos a conocer la universidad, a ver las carreras. Les dábamos clases de computación, clases de desarrollo profesional para que estén listos para ir allá. Y también en la casa damos clases a los niños. Teníamos una biblioteca. Los niños venían a la casa de nosotros y todos los días de cuatro a seis teníamos hasta 25 niños.
MC: ¡Wow!
SVP: Era intenso. Pero los niños eran, ósea, nos hacían, nos hicieron la vida feliz. Llegaban, aprendían a leer, escribir, aprender a relacionarse, a trabajar en equipo, liderazgo. Recibir un poco de amor y cariño porque en las comunidades indígenas no reciben un abrazo de nadie. No reciben un te quiero. No reciben eres bueno, inteligente. Nada. Entonces todo eso trabajamos con los jóvenes en el autoestima. El autoconfianza. Y mi esposo trabajaba en el área de agricultura que eso a sido siempre lo que el a hecho.
MC: Pues que bueno. Se escucha como una experiencia tan buena que ustedes estuvieron juntos.
SVP: ¡Si! Si. Y es otra de las que las parejas o sobreviven o se matan. [riza] Pero yo pienso encontramos apoyo mutuo. Porque, yo no se si pudiera haber hecho sola. Vivíamos en una comunidad aislada y es una comunidad dura en el sentido que otra vez porque son indígenas no reciben este, no tienen esa experiencia de decir gracias, por ejemplo. En la lengua de ellos no existe la palabra gracias entonces no saben como apreciar. Entonces uno siente que no lo quieren. Uno se siente que no caí bien. Ese tipo de cosa. Entonces fue bueno de tener un apoyo.
MC: Si. Pues que bueno. Este, quería preguntar también, ¿como llegaron aquí en Catawba County?
SVP: Aja.
MC: Que si estoy muy interesada en eso porque yo me mude aquí hace diez años.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Me mude aquí en 2012 y es muy diferente de nuestros países.
SVP: Si. Si.
MC: ¿Como fue eso y este, como a cambiado este lugar desde usted-- cuando llego usted?
SVP: Aja. No te voy a mentir que a sido- estoy sorprendida de vivir aquí porque esta comunidad es una comunidad súper pequeña. Es muy conservadora. Y hay gente buenísima, pero, aun que la gente es súper buena, todavía se puede sentir que te miran como una persona de afuera. No solamente porque me miro así con pelo negro, bajita, morena, pero solamente por--pero también, aunque la gente se mire blanca, para la gente que no es de aquí, siempre va ser una gente de afuera, ¿no? A mi me gusta mucho porque es un lugar donde tenemos una casa donde podemos tener un huerto que mi esposo le encanta. Es una casa, es una comunidad donde no hay trafico. Pero llegamos aquí porque mi esposo aplico, solicitó un trabajo como director de la Oficina de Extensión Cooperativa. Y le dieron el trabajo entonces yo vine con el. Fue causalidad yo apliqué, solicité esta universidad. Tuve la suerte que alguien se había ido y me contrataron. Yo no había- mi esposo viajo y vio la cuidad y por supuesto que los gustos de mi esposo y los míos son diferentes. Pero, abecés amas tanto tu pareja que le tienes que confiar. [riza]
MC: Claro.
SVP: Entonces, yo le confié y viniendo del Cuerpo de Paz y vivir en un área sin electricidad, sin agua, esto iba ser fácil, ¿no? Esto va ser la maravilla. No tenia miedo. Yo pensé, va funcionar. Nos vamos adaptar. Otra vez los salvadoreños súper resilentes y hacen lo que tienen que hacer. Vine aquí por primera vez- fue como un 12 de diciembre. Llegue a las 11:30 a Hickory porque tenia una entrevista de trabajo a las 12. [riza]
MC: ¡Wow!
SVP: Entonces, manejando directo a la universidad. Nunca había visto a la universidad. Nunca había visto Hickory. Nada. Y afortunadamente me dieron el trabajo y me encanta. La universidad me encanta. Siempre estar un área educativa, en un campus, con los estudiantes. Los estudiantes me rejuvenecen.
MC: Si.
SVP: Me dan una enejaría que necesito para vivir, sentirme feliz. Entonces me encanta. Pero otra vez, abecés el ambiente, puede ser como siempre sos una de afuera. No sos de aquí. Pero parte de eso, es fácil vivir aquí. Nunca hay trafico. Hay espacio. Nunca hay un problema de parqueo. Por ejemplo, mi hermana una vez le digo, te espero en el centro de convenciones. ¿Y ella me dice, donde me tengo que parquear? Yo le digo, en el centro de convenciones. Porque ella vive en Maryland y el centro de convenciones allá en Washington tiene que parquearse como tres cuadras y caminar y eso. ¡Y yo, no! Es fácil. Todo es fácil. Nunca hay problema de estacionamiento. Nada. Tenemos muchos amigos que e encontrado aquí que me hacen súper feliz y me gusta mucho el estilo de vida rural. Yo soy una persona de ciudad y extraño eso. Cuando voy a Raleigh o a Charlotte es como [emocionada]. Me encanta, pero también me encanta vivir pacíficamente. Tranquilamente.
MC: Si. Si. Es muy tranquilo y es también mi experiencia.
SVP: Aja.
MC: De venir y vivir en otros lugares, otros países. Pero si, aquí es muy tranquilo.
SVP: Si.
MC: La naturaleza también. Te quería preguntar también sobre tu trabajo. ¿También trabajas en el library? En la biblioteca. ¿Cual es tu posición ahí?
SVP: Se llama la posición, es como un library specialist. Una especialista. Pero, realmente lo que yo hago es, soy el enlace Latino entre la biblioteca y la comunidad latina. Mi trabajo es encontrar los recursos y dárselos a la gente. Entonces, es como soy la referencia de los latinos. ¿Donde hay un abogado? ¿Donde me puedo casar? En la biblioteca también creamos un programa que se llama Homework Helpers que es tutoría. Ves, la mayoría de los padres latinos que no hablan español. Sus hijos sufren las consecuencias, ¿no? Y les cuesta o les tarda un poquito mas en aprender y leer y escribir. Entonces es un recurso que los padres me dijeron. ¿Porque no ofrecen esto? Lo necesitamos. Y generalmente en este programa tenemos de 25 a 30 estudiantes que vienen a leer por treinta minutos. Y es comprobado que sus notas, su compresión, todo mejora. Solamente por venir y leer con un tutor. Los tutores son estudiantes de la escuela secundaria que necesitan servicio comunitaria. Horas de servicio comunitaria y provén entonces eso es una ayuda mutua. Y eso es lo que hago. Ofrecemos clases de ingles para los hispanohablantes. Programas que ahora por la pandemia no estamos ofreciendo muchos, pero siempre antes yo ofrecía un programa al mes. Entonces, aprendan como comer saludable. Aprenda a como hacer joyas o aritos. Aprenda como cuidar sus hijos emocionalmente. Un montón de talleras o talleres para empoderamiento de mujeres. También creamos un club de lectura en español donde hay como diez, once personas que participan. Leemos en español. Nos reunimos una ves al mes. ¿Que mas? Bueno y cosas así, ¿no?
MC: Si.
SVP: Ayudar a los latinos a encontrar esos recursos que ellos piensan que no existe o que no saben como conectarlos. Pues yo los conecto con las cosas de la comunidad.
MC: Si. Yo cuando me mudé aquí me sorprendí que si hay una populación de latinos aquí en el condado de Catawba.
SVP: ¡Si! Somos el 10% casi 11% de la comunidad. Mhm.
MC: Si. ¿Y tu trabajo con el-la comunidad latina, tu que piensas Soraya que son los recursos que necesitan mas? ¿Como que tipo de recursos necesitan los latinos que viven aquí en el condado?
SVP: Aja.
MC: O, ¿que son recursos que tu piensas que ellos buscan mas?
SVP: Que buscan mas. Ok. So, lo que buscan mas quieren aprender ingles. Todo el mundo quiere ayudar a sus hijos. No es que no quieran. Es que no pueden. Aun que yo, por ejemplo, que puedo hablar ingles, las formas de matemáticas que yo aprendí en mi país, aquí es diferente. La división. Como dividir números. Aquí el sistema es diferente que lo que es en El Salvador. Yo no podría ayudarle a mis hijos a dividir o a ensenarles a dividir, por ejemplo. Necesitaría ayuda de alguien mas porque los sistemas son diferentes. Entonces ellos quieren aprender ingles para ayudar a sus hijos. Aprender ingles para poder ir al doctor y no depender que sus hijos trabajen. Ellos necesitan mucha ayuda con inmigración. ¿Que deben de hacer? Los abogados de inmigración son- los costos son elevados que no todo el mundo puede pagar así. La inseguridad en cuanto a manejar sin licencia, eso ellos necesitan como que van hacer? Tienen que llevar sus hijos a la escuela, a las citas medicas. Ellos quieren cumplir con todo, pero, no tienen quien ayudarles encontrar ese tipo de cosas. Medicinas. Doctores que si no tienen seguro medico, donde pueden encontrar la atención que necesitan sin costarles un ojo de la cara, por ejemplo. ¿Que mas? Ayuda en cuanto a sus niños para tener excito en la escuela porque de verdad, no es que los padres no quieran ir a las reuniones. Solamente que no saben como. No saben que hacer. No haya entender cuando están explicando. Sus niños tienen que ser esto, esto y esto y ellos quieren ayudar, pero como no entendieron el mensaje no le van ayudar el niño. Entonces necesitan traductores que puedan ayudarles. Lo cual voy a ser honesta que ahora en el condado yo e visto mucha mas información que nunca en español y en ingles. Casi casi todo esta siendo hoy bilingüe. Voy a decir que el condado de Catawba esta haciendo un trabajo buenísimo en cuanto han tener gente por ejemplo con la pandemia. A tener la información en los dos idiomas. Educar a la gente en los dos idiomas. Porque mucha gente no es que no quiera, solamente que el mensaje no llega porque no esta en la lengua, ¿no? Y otra cosa también que yo siento que el condado esta haciendo un buen trabajo en recordar y enfocarse para quien es el mensaje. Es para gente que tiene educación o es para gente que no a tenido educación, pero todavía necesita entender este mensaje. Todos están haciendo mucho mas simple para que el mensaje llegue a la gente.
MC: Claro. Si. Claro. Y una ultima pregunta para ti. ¿Tu piensas que a crecido el numero de latinos aquí en al área? Tu crees que, que están viniendo mas, emigrando de otros países y si si piensas que si esta creciendo, ¿por qué?
SVP: Mhm. Yo la verdad que, yo me incluyo en ese numero de latinos que están viniendo porque yo recientemente hace siete años solamente. Lo que voy a hacer también es que e notado que mucha mas gente de visita a la biblioteca porque desde que hay un servicio en español mas grande y a crecido mas, ellos se comunican entre ellos. Y la gente llega me mandaron que aquí hablan español y vemos que esa comunidad esta creciendo en la biblioteca, por ejemplo. Porque se cuentan entre ellos. Se confían en la biblioteca. La gente sabe que iban encontrar algo confiable, seguro. Y entonces yo veo que esa población si a crecido mas y creo que la gente esta inmigrando por lo mismo. En nuestros países no hay trabajos. Hay muchos profesionales. Se están graduando de la universidad, la gente se gradúa en masas. Pero no encuentran un trabajo profesional o no encuentran un trabajo que pague lo suficiente para cubrir las necesidades de las familias, ¿no? Bueno la gente se viene por falta de trabaja. La gente se viene por problemas económicos, sociales, problemas de delincuencia. Cuanta gente tiene que salir porque están amenazados. Que, si no hacen esto o lo otro, lo van a matar a ellos y sus familias. Ósea, la gente sale por muchas cosas y, pero creo que la mayoría es porque la falta de oportunidades en nuestros países son grandes. No hay muchas oportunidades.
MC: Claro. Si. Yo también veo eso. En mi país, en México y mucha gente que yo e hablado es mucho de lo mismo.
SVP: Aja.
MC: Entonces, bueno muchas gracias—
SVP: No, gracias.
MC: Son todas las preguntas que tengo ahorita. No se si quiere decir otra cosa o unas preguntas--
SVP: -- No. Yo pienso que podríamos hablar mucho mas, pero pienso que [riza] nos vamos aburrir.
MC: [riza] Si.
SVP: Pero, pero me encanta este proyecto que están haciendo porque me da curiosidad cuando estas primeras, segundas generaciones de Carolina del Norte puedan escuchar lo que fuimos nosotros, se van a dar cuenta de- es parte de la historia, ¿no?
MC: Claro.
SVP: Que tal vez no van a encontrar en un libro escrito, pero son historias que cada individuo vive.
MC: Claro. Son experiencias de la gente que-- experiencias vividas.
SVP: Mhm. De la vida normal. Real. Cotidiana.
MC: Y es muy importante. Bueno, pues muchas gracias. Me dio mucho gusto conocerte y hablarte--
SVP: --Igualmente--
MC: -- y escuchar tu historia.
SVP: Igualmente. Gracias.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-1000 -- Valdez Place, Soraya.
Description
An account of the resource
Soraya Valdez Place is a Spanish Professor at Lenoir Rhyne University and the Community Outreach Specialist for the Catawba County Library system in Hickory, North Carolina. She is originally from San Salvador, El Salvador and first moved to the United States in 2004. Soraya tells the story of her life and explains what growing up was like for her in El Salvador. She reflects on the struggles she and her family faced and touches on the violence, natural disasters, and the rampant civil war that plagued her country. She shares the story of moving to the United States for the first time and the challenges of learning English and eventually, how she came to live in North Carolina. She also shares her experience of her time in the Peace Corp and serving abroad with her husband. Soraya speaks on the differences between life in North Carolina, specifically Catawba County, and life back in her home of El Salvador. Lastly, she touches on her work in Catawba County as a Spanish professor and a Community Outreach Specialist, serving as a bridge for the Spanish-speaking community. Soraya closes the interview by telling me about the different issues the Latinx community faces in Catawba County and her work to address these issues by creating workshops and classes through the local library system.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-02-10
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1000_Audio.mp3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29184">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/d6edb9668a18e94d584f560951b6d0bd.mp3
69eaecf38f6bb0a261847474300574e8
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/8884e0f77cdce1b1b231c7788a28cd94.pdf
b0d453371049adc57be8546554b801df
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0997
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2022-03-06
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
García García, Isaías.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Barber and business owner
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
2000
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Totonicapán -- Totonicapán -- Guatemala
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Boone -- Watauga County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-91.3599703 14.911838),2000,1;POINT(-81.6827392578125 36.217933654785156),2016,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Carlton, Marisa.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Spanish
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Isaías García García is a barber and local business owner of Barbería García, in Boone, North Carolina. He is originally from Totonicapán, Honduras and emigrated to the United States alone at the age of 16. Garcia, the youngest of nine siblings, explains what life was like for him growing up in Guatemala with his family. He shares the story of his migration journey, starting in his hometown of Totonicapán, traveling through Mexico, until he reached the United States-Mexico border. He describes what the entry process was like for him, mentioning that he believed entry would be feasible since he was a minor at the time. He recalls his first thoughts and emotions when he finally arrived to the United States as well as being held in a very cold place used at immigration facilities nicknamed “refrí” or iceboxes.[1] Isaías was later released to the custody of his brother-in-law.[2] He then shares his journey in North Carolina, detailing his experiences in high school and in achieving his dream of starting his own barber shop. He goes in depth about his dream of being a barber, the process of obtaining licenses, finding a location to rent, and how the Covid-19 pandemic affected his business. Closing out the interview, Isaías shares his thoughts on what resources would be the most helpful for him and other Spanish-speaking community members in Boone.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Isaías García García by Marisa Carlton, 06 March 2022, R-0997, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29176
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Citizenship and immigration; Labor and employment; Language and communication; Migratory experience; Receiving communities; Business owners
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Ok. Hola. Me llamo Marisa. Estoy aquí con Isaías. Estamos en su negocio en Boone Carolina del Norte. El me va contar un poco sobre su historia y sobre su negocio. Isaías gracias por estar aquí conmigo. Ok. Quiero empezar. ¿Me puedes decir un poco sobre donde eres y donde creciste y donde naciste?
Isaías García: Si. Soy de Guatemala. Crecí allá hasta los 16 años que decidí venir a los Estados Unidos.
MC: ¿Y en que parte de Guatemala creciste?
IG: Se llama, la cuidad se llama Totonicapán.
MC: Ok.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Me puedes decir un poquito sobre Totonicapán? Cuéntame como es ese lugar y es grande o pequeño? Si me puede decir un poquito mas sobre el lugar.
IG: Ok. No pues es un pueblo pequeño. Muy parecido acá a Boone. Es un área, como se dice, urbana y es como te digo, es un pueblo chico y diversidad en cultura y es muy bonito. Si.
MC: ¿Es mas grande o mas pequeño que Boone?
IG: Un poquito mas grande.
MC: ¿Mas grande? Ok.
IG: Si. Un poquito mas grande.
MC: Ok. ¿Y me puedes contar como es ahí como la naturaleza? ¿Hay—tu me dices que es urbana entonces hay muchos edificios o es mas, así como pueblito pequeño?
IG: Pues es mas pueblito pequeño. Es mas parecido acá. Hay muchos arboles y si.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Y me puedes contar un poco de como fue ti infancia? ¿Creciste con hermanos o como tu familia tenias una familia grade? ¿Me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre tu infancia?
IG: Si. Soy el ultimo de todos mis hermanos. Somos nueve. Tres mujeres y seis hombres. Si entonces es una familia grande. ¿Que mas te digo? Si fue muy divertido y muy diferente a como es la infancia ahora. O como se vive aquí la infancia. Menos tecnología y muchos como tiempo estar afuera. Salir y juegos así. Pero para mi punto de visto fue mas fue mas bonito que como es ahora.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Y cuando vivías en Guatéamela, me imagino tus papas trabajaban o de que trabajo había allá en tu ciudad?
IG: Pues había de todos. Pero mis papas eran, como se dice, vendedores ambulantes. Aja. Si. Mi papa era vendedor de helados y mi mama pues este, como un puesto de cosas así de antojitos. O cosas así. Aja.
MC: Si.
IG: Si. Y trabajo, como todos. Construcción, carpintería, trabajo en el campo, y de sastrerías y peluquerías. Y así.
MC: Mhm. Un poquito de todo como era pues una cuidad, ¿verdad?
IG: Eh, no era tan grande, así como una cuidad, pero si había de todo.
MC: Si. Y este, si me puedes contar, si puedes recordar cuando eras pequeño, ¿que fueron como tus comidas favoritas cuando eras pequeño? ¿O tus actividades favoritas con tus hermanos?
IG: Comida no sabría decirte, pero el pollo si me gustaba tanto [riza]. Lo que mas me gustaba era jugar futbol. Es lo que siempre quería hacer y siempre quería jugar. Y había otros juegos que hacíamos con mis hermanos y—pero lo que mas hacia era el futbol. Si.
MC: Y me puedes contar, dices que tenias ocho hermanos, ¿verdad? ¿O cuantos hermanos?
IG: Tengo cinco hermanos y tres hermanas.
MC: Ok. Ok. [nodding] Y este, como, ¿pues cual fue una razón que tu te fuiste de Guatemala?
IG: Primero, curiosidad. Que tenia un cuñado que vino y a mi se me entro la curiosidad a poder venir a estados unidos y conocer. Y el otro es el estudio. Quería venir a estudiar acá. Aprender otro idioma y trabajar, obviamente. Si. Y pues tener mejor futuro y eso.
MC: ¿Cuantos años tenias cuando tu viniste a los Estados Unidos?
IG: 16.
MC: 16? ¿Te viniste solo o me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre esa experiencia y como tomaste esa decisión? ¿Y vinieron tu familia o viniste solo? Cuéntame un poquito mas, sobre todo.
IG: Mhm. Bueno, no. Vine solo. Como te digo que se me vino la curiosidad y las ganas de venir. Mis papas no estaban de acuerdo porque pues apenas tenia 16 años y me decían que mejor me quedara. Que allá podía hacer algo también. Pero, no. Me decidí venirme por necesidad. Y pues si vine solo. Tuve que cruzar por todo México y así por bus o por tráiler. Ya luego cruzar la frontera y como vine de menor de edad, tenia menor de los 18, entonces, había un programa que en la frontera dejaban pasar a los niños menores de 18 años. Y entonces, si. Me detuvo inmigración y así. Y ya el cuñado que yo tenia acá fue el que se hizo responsable sobre mi pase acá.
MC: Mhm. Me imagino que ese viaje fue duro para ti. ¿No se si me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre como tuviste que, como, guardar dinero para hacer ese viaje? ¿O a quien tuviste a contactarte para saber como venirte?
IG: El dinero pues no mas lo preste. Aja. Para venir, pues como un guía. Aja. Y ya el nos ayudaron a cruzar a México y si solo eso. Si. El guía nos ayudaba y nos decía donde ir y así nos metía donde nos teníamos que esconder y en donde nos teníamos que quedar. Y así nomas. Y el tiempo que estuve en México ante el camino, ratos fue difícil y en ratos no. Abecés, porque habíamos varios en un [] o nos quedamos sin comida o cosas así.
MC: ¿Cual-que fue lo mas difícil en ese viaje para ti? ¿Tenias acceso hablarle a tu familia o no tenias ni un modo de comunicación?
IG: Eh, si. Poquito porque tenia un teléfono ya antigüito. Si. No podía hacer mucho en eso. Pero, si. Me comunicaba con ellos, pero era muy poco.
MC: ¿Y me puedes contar mas sobre el tren que tomaste, como fue esa experiencia para ti?
IG: No. Yo no pase por el tren.
MC: --oh.
IG: Simplemente eran como buses y los tráileres. Pero nunca subí al tren.
MC: Oh. Ok. Si. Ok. ¿Y ya cuando llegaste a la frontera, como fue eso para ti? ¿Que emociones sentías?
IG: Estaba nervioso. Si. Tenia miedo de que iba pasar o algo porque, pues, siempre se escuchaba de que pues, el rio era peligroso y hay que tener cuidado y cosas así. Pero, si estaba emocionada a estar cerco de estados unidos. Conocer otros lugares. Pues, es un sueno venir acá. Y si estaba feliz pues eran muchos sentimientos. Si. Estaba feliz, nervioso, asustado, emocionado. Y así.
MC: ¿Y cuando ya llegaste a la frontera, me puedes explicar mas sobre ese proceso? ¿Que paso cuando llegaste ahí y como cuanto tiempo duro todo? ¿Ese proceso?
IG: De cuando llegué a la frontera y cruce hasta que ya llegué con mi cunado fueron como veinte días. Pues, primero los oficiales de inmigración te toman tus datos, tus huellas, verifican que tu identidad. Ellos te contactan con el que va ser la persona que va ser encargada de ti para sacarte y luego, después de eso pues tuvieron en un lugar que llaman, como se llama? La congeladora. O refrí creo que le llaman. Es un cuarto que esta pues muy fría. Demasiado fría. Luego fue por un día o una noche creo. Después de eso nos trasladaron a otro centro de acoplo donde estuvimos por dos días. Y ahí había demasiada gente igual. Y eso fue acá en Texas. Ya luego, me llevaron a una New Jersey creo. New Jersey? Y como una casa hogar donde habían personas que nos cuidaban. Teníamos medio día de clases. Tarde para jugar y cosas así. Y ahí estuve como dos semanas y ya luego vine para acá para Norte Carolina.
MC: ¿Como fue eso cuando ya llegaste aquí a Estados Unidos, pues, me imagino muy diferente verdad?
IG: --si!
MC: --que Guatemala. ¿Que recuerdas cuando llegaste y ya cruzaste y llegaste aquí a Estados Unidos? ¿Que recuerdas pensar o viste los edificios? Cuéntame un poquito sobre eso.
IG: Lo primero lo que vi fue un sign. Un rotado que estaba escrito. No se que es lo que decía, pero estaba escrito en ingles. Es lo único que me di cuenta. [riza] Y fue lo primero que ya estoy en Estados Unidos porque no--vi ese sign. Ya después vi lugares grandes. Los edificios. Pues, estaba emocionado. Ya también en New Jersey cuando nos fuimos a la casa hogar, el lugar donde estuvimos fue en Kingston, en no era tampoco una cuidad grande, pero estaba bonito el lugar. Las casas. Y luego ya cuando nos llevaron una vez a New York, creo. Y pasamos por el puente, luego si vi los edificios grandes, y todo. Se me hizo bonito, pero en el mismo rato, me di cuenta que no quería vivir en una cuidad porque hay mucha boya, mucho trafico, muy estresado. Y no me gusto. [riza] Ya después, cuando ya llego el pues el momento de venir a Carolina, llegamos al aeropuerto de Charlotte y ya fueron por mi. Y como nunca había viajado, así como pues bastante tiempo, no estoy acostumbrado de estar saliendo. Y de Charlotte aquí a Boone son como dos horas, entonces yo sentía que no llegaba, y no llegaba, y no llegaba. Pero, cada vez que pasaba un rato, cada ves estaba viendo menas casas. Nada que ver que—cuando ya estaban entrando aquí en Boone, vi todo, no se parecía nada como en Charlotte. Y vi los arboles, las casas bien alejadas, y dije, no pues bien diferente. Al principio, no se me fue difícil adaptarme porque es muy parecido a donde yo era y por eso me gusto también. Y ya si, me quede acá. Aja.
MC: Me puedes contar un poquito—tu mencionaste algo de casa hogar. ¿Que fue eso? ¿Eso fue un programa de la inmigración o que fue eso?
IG: Si. Porque te mantienen ahí durante el tiempo que ellos verifican los datos y todo lo de la persona que va ser tu encargado o que te van recibir. Para no nomas entregar a cualquier persona o un menor de edad. Y si solo durante el tiempo que toma ese proceso. Te mantienen ahí como una semana, dos semanas o tres semanas. Yo estuve dos semanas.
MC: ¿Y en New Jersey?
IG: Si. New Jersey es donde estuve en esa casa.
MC: Y en esa casa hogar, ¿que hacías ahí? ¿Había mas niños tu edad o eras tu solo?
IG: Habían mas. Eran como casas normales así normales de tres habitaciones. Había en cada casa, porque habían diferentes, estábamos como cinco a seis niños y hay nomas pasábamos pasar la tarde y dormíamos ahí porque en la mañana íbamos a otro lugar donde recibíamos las clases otro lugar donde íbamos a comer y así.
MC: Mhm. ¿Entonces, me cuentas que el que te recibió es un familiar?
IG: Mi cuñado.
MC: Oh, tu cuñado.
IG: Si. Mi cuñado.
MC: Ok. Entonces, me puedes contar mas. Después de eso, de tu tiempo en la casa hogar, ¿te fuiste con tu cuñado adonde?
IG: En Vilas. Aquí cerca a Boone. Ahí llegue a vivir. Estuve ahí como por un año y luego nos movimos a Deep Gap. Estuve ahí por medio año. Pero el año que estuve en Vilas, fue en el año que—el único año que yo fui a high school. Fue en el noveno grado. Después ya me moví a Deep Gap, ya no mas fui al community college.
MC: Y Deep Gap es aquí, cerca, ¿verdad?
IG: Si, es aquí.
MC: ¿En Carolina del Norte?
IG: Aja.
MC: Mencionas otra cosa de cuando fuiste a high school. ¿Como fue esa experiencia para ti? [riza]
IG: Fue [pensando]. ¿Fue como te digo? Fue bonita, pero al principio se me hizo difícil porque, pues, no sabia nada de ingles. Eso fue el, como te digo, lo mas difícil de todo. No entendía nada, necesitaba compañeros que me ayudara. Y otra cosa es de que aquí en Watauga no hay muchos hispanos. Es raro que vayas encontrar como otro hispano que pues, te pueda ayudar así con las clases y así. Pero ya acabo de tres meses, ya no se mi hizo tan difícil ya le empecé a entender el idioma. Mhm.
MC: Yo me imagino que, pues, eso seria lo mas duro para alguien es venir y no poder entender el idioma, ¿verdad?
IG: Si. Es lo mas difícil al principio. Aja.
MC: ¿Y este, terminaste el high school?
IG: No. Nomas fui un año. ¿Fui un año y terminé el noveno grado y después a los 17 me—Salí de high school y me inscribí al community college creo que se llama? Caldwell?
MC: Aja.
IG: Para sacar un GED. Si.
MC: ¿Y si lo sacaste?
IG: ¡Si! Si saque el GED.
MC: ¿Y como fue eso? ¿Tenia programas como para personas que hablaban español o lo tenias que hacer todo en ingles?
IG: No se si había para personas que no hablaban ingles. Porque cuando yo fui a inscribirme, ya llevaba un año en la high school. Entonces, ya hablaba mas o menos ingles. Entonces, decidí—ni pregunté porque yo quería hacerlo en ingles para aprender mas. Mhm.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Y bueno, pues. Cambiando poco de tema. ¿Cuantos años ya has vivido aquí en Carolina del Norte?
IG: [pensando] Cinco años y medio.
MC: Cinco años.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Que año fue que llegaste aquí?
IG: 2016.
MC: 2016?
IG: Si. 2016.
MC: ¿Y en ese tiempo vivías con tu cuñado o vivías solo?
IG: Viví un año y medio con mi cuñado. Ya después de que cumplí los 18 fui a vivir a Wilkesboro que esta igual 30 minutos de aquí. Y ahí vive con la familia de que fue mi patrona porque fui a trabajar a un salón. Y ahí vive por dos años con ellos. Y después ellos se mudaron entonces tuve que buscar donde vivir. Y vivir con un paisano mío de Guatemala estuve como seis meses después estuve como por un año con otra persona. Y ya ahorita llevo casi los dos años aquí en Boone. Y ahora si pues vivo solo.
MC: Y quiero pues, si me puedes contar un poco mas sobre-- Tu tienes un negocio de cortar pelo. ¿Siempre tuviste ese sueño? ¿O cuéntame un poquito sobre eso?
IG: Si. Desde pequeño porque me hermano el casi mayor, es peluquero. Es barbero. Y tengo—ahora de los seis hermanos, todos somos peluqueros. Cuando yo empecé aprender, eran tres los que cortaban pelo. Empezó desde que, como casi lo, antes de que yo cumpliera los 14 años a mi me llamo la atención. Entonces, fui a la barbería de mi hermano a aprender. Y luego en como cuatro meses, ya cortaba mas o menos. Seguí la escuela allá. Y medio día trabajaba en la barbería y luego me iba a la escuela. Y me gusto bastante. Me gusto mucho. Y como sabia – tenia ese trabajo allá. Entonces, era una de las razones porque yo me vine porque yo dije, me voy. Voy a ir a Estados Unidos. Voy a estudiar. Y quiero tener una barbería allá. Eso era el sueno que yo tenia. Aja.
MC: O, entonces tu ya tenias ese sueño--
IG: --si!
MC: --cuando llegaste aquí?
IG: Si. Ya. Aja.
MC: Y tu tenias esa meta de tener tu propio negocio aquí?
IG: Si. Aja.
MC: Pues, cuéntame un poquito. Tu tienes tu negocio aquí en Boone, Carolina del Norte. Que fue ese proceso. ¿Como, agarraste el permiso de estar aquí, y como abriste tu negocio? Dime un poco de ese proceso.
IG: Pues, para lo del negocio, tuve que ir a la escuela y agarrar el, ¿como se llama? La licencia para cortar pelo. Que es--toma como un año. Termine o agarre la licencia como en el 2019. Finales del 2019. Y desde entonces empecé buscar un sitio, un lugar para poner la barbería. Si fue difícil encontrar lugar porque primero no hay muchos lugares, así como espacios disponibles aquí en Boone. Segundo, es muy caro la renta. Y lo mas difícil para mi lo que yo siento es de que como me miraron muy joven, y yo llegaba a preguntar a los que rentaban de que si ocupo un lugar para poner un salón o una barbería y me decían que lo primero que me preguntaban es que si tenia ya un negocio. Y ya acredito y así y nomas, ¿como se dice? Querían nomas cambiar de lugar. Y yo decía que no. Que es primera vez que iba abrir un negocio y se me hizo muy difícil encontrar lugar hasta que este lugar donde estoy ahorita lo encontré en Facebook. Y fue un poquito mas fácil. Fue en febrero que empecé a rentar. En febrero 2020. Pero, [pensando] fue difícil porque en ese entonces, en febrero y marzo empezó lo de la pandemia. Y aquí para sacar un, o para tener un negocio, o por ejemplo la [] tienes que tener el lugar ya rentado y luego empiezas a sacar los permisos para el negocio en la ciudad. Lo del agua, lo de la luz. Si vas hacer algún cambio. Y cosas si. Entonces, yo busque lugar, [ruido de fondo] hice el contrato de la renta y empezó la pandemia y entonces no tenia como, de donde sacar lo del dinero porque el salón donde yo trabajaba lo cerraron. Entonces, tuve que hacer cortes a domicilio a donde me llamaban yo iba. Abecés estaba en un lugar y tenia que manejar una hora para ir a cortar a otros clientes. Y así estuve como por cuatro o cinco meses del tiempo que duro cerrada las barberías. Y en ese tiempo estuve sacando los permisos, arreglando lugar, y ya en junio del 2020 y al principio igual fue difícil pues, porque es primer negocio. La gente no te conoce. No estas en un lugar muy céntrico. No se ve mucho. No es muy visible. Pero, pues empecé solo. Nomas yo y ya abecés hacia un corte, dos cortes al día y—pero no me desespere ni nada de eso porque sabia mas o menos como era lo de un negocio de que, porque lo había visto con mi hermano de que no es de que pones un negocio y luego luego ya ver resultados. Entonces, pues nomas tuve paciencia y poco a poco la gente fue conociendo y me fue clientando. Aja.
MC: Si. Y tu como sacaste la palabra primero cuando tu abriste tu negocio en el 2020. ¿Como sacaste la palabra que ya habías abierto tu negocio? ¿Lo ponías como en redes sociales o era solo personas que conocías?
IG: Si. Lo puse en redes sociales. Pues crie una cuenta de la barbería y aparte hice unas tarjetas que fui a dejar a unos negocios, tiendas mexicanas, a los gimnasios y aparte me conoció bastante gente del salón donde yo trabaja. Entonces, eso fue lo que me ayudo también. Aja.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Yo e escuchado muchas historias así que pues, por la pandemia fue muy difícil para mucha gente tener negocios. ¿Y me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre, pues ahorita cuales son tus retos mas grandes en tener un negocio aquí en Boone? ¿En Carolina del Note?
IG: ¿Como así de que?
MC: ¿Como tus, que es lo mas difícil ahorita para ti tener un negocio aquí?
IG: Ahorita, pues lo que quiero es un lugar mas grande. Y lo difícil es encontrarlo. Aparte de que esta muy cara la renta, no hay lugares como en las plazas, por ejemplo, aquí donde esta la--el restaurante del Dos Amigos. Hay espacios disponibles, pero fui a preguntar y le dije que era para una barbería, y me dijeron de que no se puede porque ya hay un salón ahí. Entonces el salón tiene como un contrato especial donde no aceptan competencia. Y eso a sido mismo con cada centro comercial que hay. Hay lugares disponibles pero cada centro comercial, si hay un salón ahí o una barbería no puedes ponerlo tu porque todos tienen ese tipo de contrato. Y fuera de eso, ahora no me quejo. La verdad no me quejo. Y, pero, si quisiera pues encontrar un lugar mas grandecillo. Tener mas estaciones. Poner mas, como mas servicios y eso es la reta que tengo ahora.
MC: Si. Pues, muchas gracias por contarme eso. Ahorita, es, ¿tu familia todavía esta en Guatemala o tienes algunos que están aquí que te ayudan?
IG: Aquí nomas tengo a mi hermana y un hermano y ya el resto de mi familia esta en Guatemala.
MC: ¿Y ellos se vinieron después de que tu llegaste?
IG: Mi hermana se vino un mes después de que yo llegara y mi hermano apenas lleva como un año. Si.
MC: ¿Y que piensas de Boone o que piensas de Carolina del Norte? ¿Tu crees que te vas a quedar aquí? ¿Te gusta aquí?
IG: Si. No. No pienso moverme como para algún otro lugar o algún otro estado. Porque la verdad me gusta mucho. Es muy tranquilo. No hay, ¿como se dice? [pensando] Como se dice? Pues no hay como robos y ni nada de eso. Porque e estado en otros lugares, otras ciudades como en Houston, en Dallas y si tu te descuidas un poco con tus cosas tu carro o algo, no lo laqueas, no lo cierras y es porque seguro te van a robar. Y aquí en Boone, nada de eso. Todo es tranquilo. La gente es mas amable se puede decir. Respetosa. Y cada quien anda en lo suyo. Y aparte pues es mas saludable vivir aquí que en una ciudad. Y aquí, pues, ya me acostumbré.
MC: Si. Y me contaste un poquito sobre la comunidad hispana aquí en Boone.
IG: Mhm.
MC: ¿Es grande o pequeño o tu piensas que hay mas personas hispanas que se están mudando en Boone o como vez eso?
IG: Si. Esta creciendo. Casa vez hay mas gente que ya sea de trabajo y o tienen familiares acá o amigos. Pero, si cada vez hay mas. Por ejemplo, en la escuela. Tengo un amigo que va a la escuela y ahora le veo mas compañeros hispanos que cuando yo estaba en la escuela. Y si, cada vez mas hay.
MC: Mhm. Tu que crees, en tu opinión, como tu te mudaste aquí, en tu opinión, ¿que crees que ayudaría mas a la gente hispana que apenas se esta mudando aquí en Boone? ¿No se si hay servicios o programas o cosas que tu piensas que ayudaría mas a la gente hispana aquí?
IG: No. La verdad no sabría decirte. [pensando] Lo único es de que, la gente como de que personas que tengan hijos hispanos acá. Y que están en la escuela o que estén en la universidad lo que sea, se involucren mas en como los hospitales, en áreas donde muchos hispanos van mas seguidos. Los centros de salud, en las farmacias, y o con la policía que no hay aquí, no e visto ningún policía hispano. Eso es lo que yo veo que ayudaría porque abecés muchos como jóvenes que han crecido acá, que nacen acá, les-- como que les avergüenza hablar español. Y ellos abecés ellos ven como a una persona que tu lo ves, y es hispano. Se ve en la su vestidura o en la forma en que se ve es hispano. Y ellos sabiendo hablar español les, no les ayudan. No les hablan en español. Porque me paso en la escuela, por ejemplo. Cuando yo estuve en la escuela, había una niña que era la única hispana que yo tenia en esa clase y la maestra dijo si hay algún hispano ahí quién que hablare español para que me ayudaran. Nadie levanto la mano. Nadie dijo nada. Y yo pensé que no había nadie y luego resulto que un día ella iba en el mismo bus que yo y el bus donde yo iba estaba muy ocupado. Todos los asientos estaban ocupados. Y el único desocupado es cuando ella estaba. ¿Y luego me dice esa la que estaba en mi clase me dice, me puedo sentar aquí contigo? ¿Y yo luego que no que no hablabas español? Y entonces no pues, me sorprendí. Ya después de eso ni aun así me ayudo en esa clase el resto del semestre. Y es lo mismo que pasa con, abecés hay hispanos que trabajan como en Walmart o otras tiendas y siendo hispanos abecés no quieren ayudar a la comunidad hispana en cosas muy simples. Entonces lo único que yo veía es de que, si se involucren mas en esos como centro de salud, en lo del departamento de policía [ruido de fondo] en los hospitales y así. Yo veo que si ayudaría mucho a los hispanos. Mhm.
MC: Y una ultima pregunta. Cuando tu llegaste aquí en Boone o aquí en Carolina del Norte, ¿te sentiste cómodo? Te sentiste como que te recibieron, bueno, ¿la comunidad que ya estaba aquí viviendo? ¿Sentiste que ellos te aceptaron como hispano?
IG: ¿La misma comunidad hispana?
MC: O, no, en general. También la comunidad americana. No se si has experimentado algo, pero te sentiste, ¿así como que te aceptaron cuando llegaste aquí?
IG: Si. Con los hispanos si todo bien. Como te digo, aquí la gente hispana tal vez porque no hemos muchos. Pero, es mas respetuosa que la gente hispana que están en lugares mas grandes como ciudades. Entonces, no es de que tuve problemas. Y ya con los americanos, pues nada. No—mucha gente dice que gente racista y así. Pero, al principio ni en cuenta porque ni les entendía. Pero ya después, no que otro en la escuela. Que hacían burlas o algún comentario. Pero, nada que no sea, para mi, un ataque físico o algo así. No debería afectarnos, así como hispanos que muchos dicen, a no que gente racista que me dice eso. Pero nosotros como hispanos no nos debería importar porque son simplemente palabras. Y no. No me sentí como hecho para un lado y así nada de eso. Al contrario. La gente, la mayoría de la gente es tranquila. Respetuosa. Entonces, todo bien.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: Ok. Isaías. Pues, son todas las preguntas que yo tengo para ti. No se tienes otras últimas palabras o si no esta bien.
IG: No. Todo bien.
MC: Ok. Bueno, muchas gracias.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Peluquero y proprietario de negocio
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Español
Es: Resumen
Isaías García García es peluquero y propietario del negocio local Barbería García, en Boone, Carolina del Norte. Es originario de Totonicapán, Honduras y emigró solo a los Estados Unidos a la edad de 16 años. García, el menor de nueve hermanos, explica cómo fue su vida creciendo en Guatemala con su familia. Él comparte la historia de su viaje migratorio, comenzando en su ciudad natal de Totonicapán, viajando por México, hasta llegar a la frontera entre Estados Unidos y México. Describe cómo fue el proceso de entrada para él, mencionando que pensaba que le sería factible la entrada por ser menor de edad. Recuerda sus primeros pensamientos y emociones cuando finalmente llegó a los Estados Unidos y también el haber sido detenido en una instalación de inmigración muy fría, apodadas “refrí.”1 Isaías luego fue entregado a la custodia de su cuñado.2 Despues comparte su transcurso en Carolina del Norte, detallando sus experiencias en la escuela secundaria y en alcanzar su sueño de iniciar su propia peluquería. Profundiza sobre su sueño de ser barbero, el proceso de obtener licencias, encontrar un local para alquilar y cómo la pandemia de Covid-19 afectó su negocio. Cerrando la entrevista, Isaías comparte sus pensamientos sobre qué recursos serían más útiles para él y otros miembros de la comunidad hispanohablante en Boone.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Isaías García García por Marisa Carlton, 06 March 2022, R-0997, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Ciudadanía e inmigración; Trabajo y empleo; Lenguaje y comunicación; Experiencia migratoria; Comunidades receptoras; Dueños de negocios
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Ok. Hola. Me llamo Marisa. Estoy aquí con Isaías. Estamos en su negocio en Boone Carolina del Norte. El me va contar un poco sobre su historia y sobre su negocio. Isaías gracias por estar aquí conmigo. Ok. Quiero empezar. ¿Me puedes decir un poco sobre donde eres y donde creciste y donde naciste?
Isaías García: Si. Soy de Guatemala. Crecí allá hasta los 16 años que decidí venir a los Estados Unidos.
MC: ¿Y en que parte de Guatemala creciste?
IG: Se llama, la cuidad se llama Totonicapán.
MC: Ok.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Me puedes decir un poquito sobre Totonicapán? Cuéntame como es ese lugar y es grande o pequeño? Si me puede decir un poquito mas sobre el lugar.
IG: Ok. No pues es un pueblo pequeño. Muy parecido acá a Boone. Es un área, como se dice, urbana y es como te digo, es un pueblo chico y diversidad en cultura y es muy bonito. Si.
MC: ¿Es mas grande o mas pequeño que Boone?
IG: Un poquito mas grande.
MC: ¿Mas grande? Ok.
IG: Si. Un poquito mas grande.
MC: Ok. ¿Y me puedes contar como es ahí como la naturaleza? ¿Hay—tu me dices que es urbana entonces hay muchos edificios o es mas, así como pueblito pequeño?
IG: Pues es mas pueblito pequeño. Es mas parecido acá. Hay muchos arboles y si.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Y me puedes contar un poco de como fue ti infancia? ¿Creciste con hermanos o como tu familia tenias una familia grade? ¿Me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre tu infancia?
IG: Si. Soy el ultimo de todos mis hermanos. Somos nueve. Tres mujeres y seis hombres. Si entonces es una familia grande. ¿Que mas te digo? Si fue muy divertido y muy diferente a como es la infancia ahora. O como se vive aquí la infancia. Menos tecnología y muchos como tiempo estar afuera. Salir y juegos así. Pero para mi punto de visto fue mas fue mas bonito que como es ahora.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Y cuando vivías en Guatéamela, me imagino tus papas trabajaban o de que trabajo había allá en tu ciudad?
IG: Pues había de todos. Pero mis papas eran, como se dice, vendedores ambulantes. Aja. Si. Mi papa era vendedor de helados y mi mama pues este, como un puesto de cosas así de antojitos. O cosas así. Aja.
MC: Si.
IG: Si. Y trabajo, como todos. Construcción, carpintería, trabajo en el campo, y de sastrerías y peluquerías. Y así.
MC: Mhm. Un poquito de todo como era pues una cuidad, ¿verdad?
IG: Eh, no era tan grande, así como una cuidad, pero si había de todo.
MC: Si. Y este, si me puedes contar, si puedes recordar cuando eras pequeño, ¿que fueron como tus comidas favoritas cuando eras pequeño? ¿O tus actividades favoritas con tus hermanos?
IG: Comida no sabría decirte, pero el pollo si me gustaba tanto [riza]. Lo que mas me gustaba era jugar futbol. Es lo que siempre quería hacer y siempre quería jugar. Y había otros juegos que hacíamos con mis hermanos y—pero lo que mas hacia era el futbol. Si.
MC: Y me puedes contar, dices que tenias ocho hermanos, ¿verdad? ¿O cuantos hermanos?
IG: Tengo cinco hermanos y tres hermanas.
MC: Ok. Ok. [nodding] Y este, como, ¿pues cual fue una razón que tu te fuiste de Guatemala?
IG: Primero, curiosidad. Que tenia un cuñado que vino y a mi se me entro la curiosidad a poder venir a estados unidos y conocer. Y el otro es el estudio. Quería venir a estudiar acá. Aprender otro idioma y trabajar, obviamente. Si. Y pues tener mejor futuro y eso.
MC: ¿Cuantos años tenias cuando tu viniste a los Estados Unidos?
IG: 16.
MC: 16? ¿Te viniste solo o me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre esa experiencia y como tomaste esa decisión? ¿Y vinieron tu familia o viniste solo? Cuéntame un poquito mas, sobre todo.
IG: Mhm. Bueno, no. Vine solo. Como te digo que se me vino la curiosidad y las ganas de venir. Mis papas no estaban de acuerdo porque pues apenas tenia 16 años y me decían que mejor me quedara. Que allá podía hacer algo también. Pero, no. Me decidí venirme por necesidad. Y pues si vine solo. Tuve que cruzar por todo México y así por bus o por tráiler. Ya luego cruzar la frontera y como vine de menor de edad, tenia menor de los 18, entonces, había un programa que en la frontera dejaban pasar a los niños menores de 18 años. Y entonces, si. Me detuvo inmigración y así. Y ya el cuñado que yo tenia acá fue el que se hizo responsable sobre mi pase acá.
MC: Mhm. Me imagino que ese viaje fue duro para ti. ¿No se si me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre como tuviste que, como, guardar dinero para hacer ese viaje? ¿O a quien tuviste a contactarte para saber como venirte?
IG: El dinero pues no mas lo preste. Aja. Para venir, pues como un guía. Aja. Y ya el nos ayudaron a cruzar a México y si solo eso. Si. El guía nos ayudaba y nos decía donde ir y así nos metía donde nos teníamos que esconder y en donde nos teníamos que quedar. Y así nomas. Y el tiempo que estuve en México ante el camino, ratos fue difícil y en ratos no. Abecés, porque habíamos varios en un [] o nos quedamos sin comida o cosas así.
MC: ¿Cual-que fue lo mas difícil en ese viaje para ti? ¿Tenias acceso hablarle a tu familia o no tenias ni un modo de comunicación?
IG: Eh, si. Poquito porque tenia un teléfono ya antigüito. Si. No podía hacer mucho en eso. Pero, si. Me comunicaba con ellos, pero era muy poco.
MC: ¿Y me puedes contar mas sobre el tren que tomaste, como fue esa experiencia para ti?
IG: No. Yo no pase por el tren.
MC: --oh.
IG: Simplemente eran como buses y los tráileres. Pero nunca subí al tren.
MC: Oh. Ok. Si. Ok. ¿Y ya cuando llegaste a la frontera, como fue eso para ti? ¿Que emociones sentías?
IG: Estaba nervioso. Si. Tenia miedo de que iba pasar o algo porque, pues, siempre se escuchaba de que pues, el rio era peligroso y hay que tener cuidado y cosas así. Pero, si estaba emocionada a estar cerco de estados unidos. Conocer otros lugares. Pues, es un sueno venir acá. Y si estaba feliz pues eran muchos sentimientos. Si. Estaba feliz, nervioso, asustado, emocionado. Y así.
MC: ¿Y cuando ya llegaste a la frontera, me puedes explicar mas sobre ese proceso? ¿Que paso cuando llegaste ahí y como cuanto tiempo duro todo? ¿Ese proceso?
IG: De cuando llegué a la frontera y cruce hasta que ya llegué con mi cunado fueron como veinte días. Pues, primero los oficiales de inmigración te toman tus datos, tus huellas, verifican que tu identidad. Ellos te contactan con el que va ser la persona que va ser encargada de ti para sacarte y luego, después de eso pues tuvieron en un lugar que llaman, como se llama? La congeladora. O refrí creo que le llaman. Es un cuarto que esta pues muy fría. Demasiado fría. Luego fue por un día o una noche creo. Después de eso nos trasladaron a otro centro de acoplo donde estuvimos por dos días. Y ahí había demasiada gente igual. Y eso fue acá en Texas. Ya luego, me llevaron a una New Jersey creo. New Jersey? Y como una casa hogar donde habían personas que nos cuidaban. Teníamos medio día de clases. Tarde para jugar y cosas así. Y ahí estuve como dos semanas y ya luego vine para acá para Norte Carolina.
MC: ¿Como fue eso cuando ya llegaste aquí a Estados Unidos, pues, me imagino muy diferente verdad?
IG: --si!
MC: --que Guatemala. ¿Que recuerdas cuando llegaste y ya cruzaste y llegaste aquí a Estados Unidos? ¿Que recuerdas pensar o viste los edificios? Cuéntame un poquito sobre eso.
IG: Lo primero lo que vi fue un sign. Un rotado que estaba escrito. No se que es lo que decía, pero estaba escrito en ingles. Es lo único que me di cuenta. [riza] Y fue lo primero que ya estoy en Estados Unidos porque no--vi ese sign. Ya después vi lugares grandes. Los edificios. Pues, estaba emocionado. Ya también en New Jersey cuando nos fuimos a la casa hogar, el lugar donde estuvimos fue en Kingston, en no era tampoco una cuidad grande, pero estaba bonito el lugar. Las casas. Y luego ya cuando nos llevaron una vez a New York, creo. Y pasamos por el puente, luego si vi los edificios grandes, y todo. Se me hizo bonito, pero en el mismo rato, me di cuenta que no quería vivir en una cuidad porque hay mucha boya, mucho trafico, muy estresado. Y no me gusto. [riza] Ya después, cuando ya llego el pues el momento de venir a Carolina, llegamos al aeropuerto de Charlotte y ya fueron por mi. Y como nunca había viajado, así como pues bastante tiempo, no estoy acostumbrado de estar saliendo. Y de Charlotte aquí a Boone son como dos horas, entonces yo sentía que no llegaba, y no llegaba, y no llegaba. Pero, cada vez que pasaba un rato, cada ves estaba viendo menas casas. Nada que ver que—cuando ya estaban entrando aquí en Boone, vi todo, no se parecía nada como en Charlotte. Y vi los arboles, las casas bien alejadas, y dije, no pues bien diferente. Al principio, no se me fue difícil adaptarme porque es muy parecido a donde yo era y por eso me gusto también. Y ya si, me quede acá. Aja.
MC: Me puedes contar un poquito—tu mencionaste algo de casa hogar. ¿Que fue eso? ¿Eso fue un programa de la inmigración o que fue eso?
IG: Si. Porque te mantienen ahí durante el tiempo que ellos verifican los datos y todo lo de la persona que va ser tu encargado o que te van recibir. Para no nomas entregar a cualquier persona o un menor de edad. Y si solo durante el tiempo que toma ese proceso. Te mantienen ahí como una semana, dos semanas o tres semanas. Yo estuve dos semanas.
MC: ¿Y en New Jersey?
IG: Si. New Jersey es donde estuve en esa casa.
MC: Y en esa casa hogar, ¿que hacías ahí? ¿Había mas niños tu edad o eras tu solo?
IG: Habían mas. Eran como casas normales así normales de tres habitaciones. Había en cada casa, porque habían diferentes, estábamos como cinco a seis niños y hay nomas pasábamos pasar la tarde y dormíamos ahí porque en la mañana íbamos a otro lugar donde recibíamos las clases otro lugar donde íbamos a comer y así.
MC: Mhm. ¿Entonces, me cuentas que el que te recibió es un familiar?
IG: Mi cuñado.
MC: Oh, tu cuñado.
IG: Si. Mi cuñado.
MC: Ok. Entonces, me puedes contar mas. Después de eso, de tu tiempo en la casa hogar, ¿te fuiste con tu cuñado adonde?
IG: En Vilas. Aquí cerca a Boone. Ahí llegue a vivir. Estuve ahí como por un año y luego nos movimos a Deep Gap. Estuve ahí por medio año. Pero el año que estuve en Vilas, fue en el año que—el único año que yo fui a high school. Fue en el noveno grado. Después ya me moví a Deep Gap, ya no mas fui al community college.
MC: Y Deep Gap es aquí, cerca, ¿verdad?
IG: Si, es aquí.
MC: ¿En Carolina del Norte?
IG: Aja.
MC: Mencionas otra cosa de cuando fuiste a high school. ¿Como fue esa experiencia para ti? [riza]
IG: Fue [pensando]. ¿Fue como te digo? Fue bonita, pero al principio se me hizo difícil porque, pues, no sabia nada de ingles. Eso fue el, como te digo, lo mas difícil de todo. No entendía nada, necesitaba compañeros que me ayudara. Y otra cosa es de que aquí en Watauga no hay muchos hispanos. Es raro que vayas encontrar como otro hispano que pues, te pueda ayudar así con las clases y así. Pero ya acabo de tres meses, ya no se mi hizo tan difícil ya le empecé a entender el idioma. Mhm.
MC: Yo me imagino que, pues, eso seria lo mas duro para alguien es venir y no poder entender el idioma, ¿verdad?
IG: Si. Es lo mas difícil al principio. Aja.
MC: ¿Y este, terminaste el high school?
IG: No. Nomas fui un año. ¿Fui un año y terminé el noveno grado y después a los 17 me—Salí de high school y me inscribí al community college creo que se llama? Caldwell?
MC: Aja.
IG: Para sacar un GED. Si.
MC: ¿Y si lo sacaste?
IG: ¡Si! Si saque el GED.
MC: ¿Y como fue eso? ¿Tenia programas como para personas que hablaban español o lo tenias que hacer todo en ingles?
IG: No se si había para personas que no hablaban ingles. Porque cuando yo fui a inscribirme, ya llevaba un año en la high school. Entonces, ya hablaba mas o menos ingles. Entonces, decidí—ni pregunté porque yo quería hacerlo en ingles para aprender mas. Mhm.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Y bueno, pues. Cambiando poco de tema. ¿Cuantos años ya has vivido aquí en Carolina del Norte?
IG: [pensando] Cinco años y medio.
MC: Cinco años.
IG: Si.
MC: ¿Que año fue que llegaste aquí?
IG: 2016.
MC: 2016?
IG: Si. 2016.
MC: ¿Y en ese tiempo vivías con tu cuñado o vivías solo?
IG: Viví un año y medio con mi cuñado. Ya después de que cumplí los 18 fui a vivir a Wilkesboro que esta igual 30 minutos de aquí. Y ahí vive con la familia de que fue mi patrona porque fui a trabajar a un salón. Y ahí vive por dos años con ellos. Y después ellos se mudaron entonces tuve que buscar donde vivir. Y vivir con un paisano mío de Guatemala estuve como seis meses después estuve como por un año con otra persona. Y ya ahorita llevo casi los dos años aquí en Boone. Y ahora si pues vivo solo.
MC: Y quiero pues, si me puedes contar un poco mas sobre-- Tu tienes un negocio de cortar pelo. ¿Siempre tuviste ese sueño? ¿O cuéntame un poquito sobre eso?
IG: Si. Desde pequeño porque me hermano el casi mayor, es peluquero. Es barbero. Y tengo—ahora de los seis hermanos, todos somos peluqueros. Cuando yo empecé aprender, eran tres los que cortaban pelo. Empezó desde que, como casi lo, antes de que yo cumpliera los 14 años a mi me llamo la atención. Entonces, fui a la barbería de mi hermano a aprender. Y luego en como cuatro meses, ya cortaba mas o menos. Seguí la escuela allá. Y medio día trabajaba en la barbería y luego me iba a la escuela. Y me gusto bastante. Me gusto mucho. Y como sabia – tenia ese trabajo allá. Entonces, era una de las razones porque yo me vine porque yo dije, me voy. Voy a ir a Estados Unidos. Voy a estudiar. Y quiero tener una barbería allá. Eso era el sueno que yo tenia. Aja.
MC: O, entonces tu ya tenias ese sueño--
IG: --si!
MC: --cuando llegaste aquí?
IG: Si. Ya. Aja.
MC: Y tu tenias esa meta de tener tu propio negocio aquí?
IG: Si. Aja.
MC: Pues, cuéntame un poquito. Tu tienes tu negocio aquí en Boone, Carolina del Norte. Que fue ese proceso. ¿Como, agarraste el permiso de estar aquí, y como abriste tu negocio? Dime un poco de ese proceso.
IG: Pues, para lo del negocio, tuve que ir a la escuela y agarrar el, ¿como se llama? La licencia para cortar pelo. Que es--toma como un año. Termine o agarre la licencia como en el 2019. Finales del 2019. Y desde entonces empecé buscar un sitio, un lugar para poner la barbería. Si fue difícil encontrar lugar porque primero no hay muchos lugares, así como espacios disponibles aquí en Boone. Segundo, es muy caro la renta. Y lo mas difícil para mi lo que yo siento es de que como me miraron muy joven, y yo llegaba a preguntar a los que rentaban de que si ocupo un lugar para poner un salón o una barbería y me decían que lo primero que me preguntaban es que si tenia ya un negocio. Y ya acredito y así y nomas, ¿como se dice? Querían nomas cambiar de lugar. Y yo decía que no. Que es primera vez que iba abrir un negocio y se me hizo muy difícil encontrar lugar hasta que este lugar donde estoy ahorita lo encontré en Facebook. Y fue un poquito mas fácil. Fue en febrero que empecé a rentar. En febrero 2020. Pero, [pensando] fue difícil porque en ese entonces, en febrero y marzo empezó lo de la pandemia. Y aquí para sacar un, o para tener un negocio, o por ejemplo la [] tienes que tener el lugar ya rentado y luego empiezas a sacar los permisos para el negocio en la ciudad. Lo del agua, lo de la luz. Si vas hacer algún cambio. Y cosas si. Entonces, yo busque lugar, [ruido de fondo] hice el contrato de la renta y empezó la pandemia y entonces no tenia como, de donde sacar lo del dinero porque el salón donde yo trabajaba lo cerraron. Entonces, tuve que hacer cortes a domicilio a donde me llamaban yo iba. Abecés estaba en un lugar y tenia que manejar una hora para ir a cortar a otros clientes. Y así estuve como por cuatro o cinco meses del tiempo que duro cerrada las barberías. Y en ese tiempo estuve sacando los permisos, arreglando lugar, y ya en junio del 2020 y al principio igual fue difícil pues, porque es primer negocio. La gente no te conoce. No estas en un lugar muy céntrico. No se ve mucho. No es muy visible. Pero, pues empecé solo. Nomas yo y ya abecés hacia un corte, dos cortes al día y—pero no me desespere ni nada de eso porque sabia mas o menos como era lo de un negocio de que, porque lo había visto con mi hermano de que no es de que pones un negocio y luego luego ya ver resultados. Entonces, pues nomas tuve paciencia y poco a poco la gente fue conociendo y me fue clientando. Aja.
MC: Si. Y tu como sacaste la palabra primero cuando tu abriste tu negocio en el 2020. ¿Como sacaste la palabra que ya habías abierto tu negocio? ¿Lo ponías como en redes sociales o era solo personas que conocías?
IG: Si. Lo puse en redes sociales. Pues crie una cuenta de la barbería y aparte hice unas tarjetas que fui a dejar a unos negocios, tiendas mexicanas, a los gimnasios y aparte me conoció bastante gente del salón donde yo trabaja. Entonces, eso fue lo que me ayudo también. Aja.
MC: Si. Que bueno. Yo e escuchado muchas historias así que pues, por la pandemia fue muy difícil para mucha gente tener negocios. ¿Y me puedes contar un poquito mas sobre, pues ahorita cuales son tus retos mas grandes en tener un negocio aquí en Boone? ¿En Carolina del Note?
IG: ¿Como así de que?
MC: ¿Como tus, que es lo mas difícil ahorita para ti tener un negocio aquí?
IG: Ahorita, pues lo que quiero es un lugar mas grande. Y lo difícil es encontrarlo. Aparte de que esta muy cara la renta, no hay lugares como en las plazas, por ejemplo, aquí donde esta la--el restaurante del Dos Amigos. Hay espacios disponibles, pero fui a preguntar y le dije que era para una barbería, y me dijeron de que no se puede porque ya hay un salón ahí. Entonces el salón tiene como un contrato especial donde no aceptan competencia. Y eso a sido mismo con cada centro comercial que hay. Hay lugares disponibles pero cada centro comercial, si hay un salón ahí o una barbería no puedes ponerlo tu porque todos tienen ese tipo de contrato. Y fuera de eso, ahora no me quejo. La verdad no me quejo. Y, pero, si quisiera pues encontrar un lugar mas grandecillo. Tener mas estaciones. Poner mas, como mas servicios y eso es la reta que tengo ahora.
MC: Si. Pues, muchas gracias por contarme eso. Ahorita, es, ¿tu familia todavía esta en Guatemala o tienes algunos que están aquí que te ayudan?
IG: Aquí nomas tengo a mi hermana y un hermano y ya el resto de mi familia esta en Guatemala.
MC: ¿Y ellos se vinieron después de que tu llegaste?
IG: Mi hermana se vino un mes después de que yo llegara y mi hermano apenas lleva como un año. Si.
MC: ¿Y que piensas de Boone o que piensas de Carolina del Norte? ¿Tu crees que te vas a quedar aquí? ¿Te gusta aquí?
IG: Si. No. No pienso moverme como para algún otro lugar o algún otro estado. Porque la verdad me gusta mucho. Es muy tranquilo. No hay, ¿como se dice? [pensando] Como se dice? Pues no hay como robos y ni nada de eso. Porque e estado en otros lugares, otras ciudades como en Houston, en Dallas y si tu te descuidas un poco con tus cosas tu carro o algo, no lo laqueas, no lo cierras y es porque seguro te van a robar. Y aquí en Boone, nada de eso. Todo es tranquilo. La gente es mas amable se puede decir. Respetosa. Y cada quien anda en lo suyo. Y aparte pues es mas saludable vivir aquí que en una ciudad. Y aquí, pues, ya me acostumbré.
MC: Si. Y me contaste un poquito sobre la comunidad hispana aquí en Boone.
IG: Mhm.
MC: ¿Es grande o pequeño o tu piensas que hay mas personas hispanas que se están mudando en Boone o como vez eso?
IG: Si. Esta creciendo. Casa vez hay mas gente que ya sea de trabajo y o tienen familiares acá o amigos. Pero, si cada vez hay mas. Por ejemplo, en la escuela. Tengo un amigo que va a la escuela y ahora le veo mas compañeros hispanos que cuando yo estaba en la escuela. Y si, cada vez mas hay.
MC: Mhm. Tu que crees, en tu opinión, como tu te mudaste aquí, en tu opinión, ¿que crees que ayudaría mas a la gente hispana que apenas se esta mudando aquí en Boone? ¿No se si hay servicios o programas o cosas que tu piensas que ayudaría mas a la gente hispana aquí?
IG: No. La verdad no sabría decirte. [pensando] Lo único es de que, la gente como de que personas que tengan hijos hispanos acá. Y que están en la escuela o que estén en la universidad lo que sea, se involucren mas en como los hospitales, en áreas donde muchos hispanos van mas seguidos. Los centros de salud, en las farmacias, y o con la policía que no hay aquí, no e visto ningún policía hispano. Eso es lo que yo veo que ayudaría porque abecés muchos como jóvenes que han crecido acá, que nacen acá, les-- como que les avergüenza hablar español. Y ellos abecés ellos ven como a una persona que tu lo ves, y es hispano. Se ve en la su vestidura o en la forma en que se ve es hispano. Y ellos sabiendo hablar español les, no les ayudan. No les hablan en español. Porque me paso en la escuela, por ejemplo. Cuando yo estuve en la escuela, había una niña que era la única hispana que yo tenia en esa clase y la maestra dijo si hay algún hispano ahí quién que hablare español para que me ayudaran. Nadie levanto la mano. Nadie dijo nada. Y yo pensé que no había nadie y luego resulto que un día ella iba en el mismo bus que yo y el bus donde yo iba estaba muy ocupado. Todos los asientos estaban ocupados. Y el único desocupado es cuando ella estaba. ¿Y luego me dice esa la que estaba en mi clase me dice, me puedo sentar aquí contigo? ¿Y yo luego que no que no hablabas español? Y entonces no pues, me sorprendí. Ya después de eso ni aun así me ayudo en esa clase el resto del semestre. Y es lo mismo que pasa con, abecés hay hispanos que trabajan como en Walmart o otras tiendas y siendo hispanos abecés no quieren ayudar a la comunidad hispana en cosas muy simples. Entonces lo único que yo veía es de que, si se involucren mas en esos como centro de salud, en lo del departamento de policía [ruido de fondo] en los hospitales y así. Yo veo que si ayudaría mucho a los hispanos. Mhm.
MC: Y una ultima pregunta. Cuando tu llegaste aquí en Boone o aquí en Carolina del Norte, ¿te sentiste cómodo? Te sentiste como que te recibieron, bueno, ¿la comunidad que ya estaba aquí viviendo? ¿Sentiste que ellos te aceptaron como hispano?
IG: ¿La misma comunidad hispana?
MC: O, no, en general. También la comunidad americana. No se si has experimentado algo, pero te sentiste, ¿así como que te aceptaron cuando llegaste aquí?
IG: Si. Con los hispanos si todo bien. Como te digo, aquí la gente hispana tal vez porque no hemos muchos. Pero, es mas respetuosa que la gente hispana que están en lugares mas grandes como ciudades. Entonces, no es de que tuve problemas. Y ya con los americanos, pues nada. No—mucha gente dice que gente racista y así. Pero, al principio ni en cuenta porque ni les entendía. Pero ya después, no que otro en la escuela. Que hacían burlas o algún comentario. Pero, nada que no sea, para mi, un ataque físico o algo así. No debería afectarnos, así como hispanos que muchos dicen, a no que gente racista que me dice eso. Pero nosotros como hispanos no nos debería importar porque son simplemente palabras. Y no. No me sentí como hecho para un lado y así nada de eso. Al contrario. La gente, la mayoría de la gente es tranquila. Respetuosa. Entonces, todo bien.
MC: Si.
IG: Si.
MC: Ok. Isaías. Pues, son todas las preguntas que yo tengo para ti. No se tienes otras últimas palabras o si no esta bien.
IG: No. Todo bien.
MC: Ok. Bueno, muchas gracias.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0997 -- García García, Isaías.
Description
An account of the resource
Isaías García García is a barber and local business owner of Barbería García, in Boone, North Carolina. He is originally from Totonicapán, Honduras and emigrated to the United States alone at the age of 16. Garcia, the youngest of nine siblings, explains what life was like for him growing up in Guatemala with his family. He shares the story of his migration journey, starting in his hometown of Totonicapán, traveling through Mexico, until he reached the United States-Mexico border. He describes what the entry process was like for him, mentioning that he believed entry would be feasible since he was a minor at the time. He recalls his first thoughts and emotions when he finally arrived to the United States as well as being held in a very cold place used at immigration facilities nicknamed “refrí” or iceboxes.[1] Isaías was later released to the custody of his brother-in-law.[2] He then shares his journey in North Carolina, detailing his experiences in high school and in achieving his dream of starting his own barber shop. He goes in depth about his dream of being a barber, the process of obtaining licenses, finding a location to rent, and how the Covid-19 pandemic affected his business. Closing out the interview, Isaías shares his thoughts on what resources would be the most helpful for him and other Spanish-speaking community members in Boone.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-03-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0997_Audio.mp3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29176">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/ba8764e0170c4077f14369d697d09c05.mp3
1f83ae206e258ed2e0daea494b245d6e
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/dc5bd5d317f674ca4bcd5a6f5fb55c32.pdf
480c7f4118d2cd93900d746f003921af
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0990
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2018-06-19
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Bridwell, Robert.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
City planners
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1949
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Albequerque -- New Mexico
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Sanford -- Lee County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
NA
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Graham, Alexandra.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
This interview was conducted by interviewer Alexandra Graham with interviewee Deacon Robert (Bob) Bridwell. The main focus of the interview is Deacon Bridwell’s responsibilities at St. Stephen Catholic Church. Much of his work in the church surrounds immigration services. He tells us about the services St. Stephen’s provides as well as what projects he personally works on. He shares about his long career of city planning and activism and talks about how demographic changes in Lee County (the county where he resides) have reshaped the needs of community members and therefore what services he works with. He talks about the biggest challenges facing immigrant families (majority Hispanic/Latino) in rural North Carolina and how his church is working to provide solutions and resources for those problems. He also discusses his involvement in the Building Integrated Communities initiative, a collaboration with the City of Sanford, Lee County, and the Latino Migration Project at UNC Chapel Hill. The interview, which took place in Deacon Bridwell’s office at St. Stephen Catholic Church, lasted about 37 minutes. Outside of his office, construction was going on to build a new addition to the church. There were construction noises throughout the interview, but it does not interfere with the ability to hear what was said.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Robert Bridwell, 19 June 2018, R-0990, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28600
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Integration and segregation; Community and social services and programs; Religion; Dreamers and DACA; Receiving Communities
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Alexandra Graham: I almost forgot to ask you. Do you have any Hispanic members of staff at the church?
Robert Bridwell: Yes, absolutely. Especially with a parish this size. It has a large Hispanic population. We have a Hispanic minister. [inaudible]. A full-time staff member. We have two other deacons besides myself who are Hispanic deacons. The church administrative assistant and interpreter and girl we rely on completely is Hispanic. We, there’s a lot—she gives us a lot of assistance in interpreting. And just a lot of our groups are very involved in working with Hispanic programs. Our youth minister who’s not Hispanic, I mean, most of her population that she works with are Hispanic children. And our faith formation director here, the majority of the children that she works with are Hispanic. So, you know, we have a full-service Hispanic program that’s going on here. Probably could expand it like most churches could. But we spend a lot of time and a lot of effort trying to serve their needs.
AG: Thanks again, Deacon.
RB: Sure thing. Today, to a large extent, we’re ones that were characterized by very substantial rural population with a few good, decent size cities. Not a lot. And then that’s transitioned obviously traumatically over the years where, you know, we have a very large and dynamic metropolitan areas. But those rural areas are still pretty much rural. Especially when I lived in eastern North Carolina where the Hispanic population, the Latino population, were pretty much restricted to farmworkers, migrant workers that were coming up from Mexico. And that’s what I experienced until I came to Sanford, when I came here from Rocky Mount. Both from a Catholic standpoint and also as a public servant. Most of the experiences I had with the Hispanic population were migrant workers who were working on large farms in Nash County and Edgecombe County. When I came here, they were just starting to have that first wave of Hispanics that were coming here to work in nonagricultural industries. They were coming to work for the poultry houses that had been recruiting them heavily throughout Mexico. And for Tyson foods here in Sanford who’s responsible for making taco shells. And some of the other industries like Cody got Cosmex manufacturers that were also stating to recruit them. When I first came to Sanford in Lee County, still was not really aware that much of the Hispanic population. My first inclination was at church. We were in our previous location then, and the Hispanic wave of population coming into the area integrating, migrating into the community had just started. All of a sudden it seemed like overnight the church was packed in the Spanish mass. And they only had one back then. And they had to add a second one. And then more families seemed to appear. So, I started to think and notice from my standpoint of being the community’s planner, when we started looking at the demographics. So, it was 2002, so the census data was just starting to come in. In nineteen--in the last census--the 1990 census, the Hispanic population was probably less than two percent of the total population. By the time of the 2000 census, that had jumped up dramatically to the extent that probably over eighteen percent of the county population was Hispanic and a little higher percentage of the city population--. About 20 percent. About 1 out of 5. And we were starting to see that at the church. That’s when we said at church that we needed to do something to accommodate the population and we started looking at plans for a larger parish community here. The same thing was happening at work. The city and the county were starting to recognize that they had this huge influx of population but until we started analyzing the data we didn’t even realize what that meant. [Coughs]. So, we were starting to get phone calls from the school system asking for data because their school-age population was literally exploding. And that occurred very, very dramatically during the first decade of the new century until 2010 where we saw all these people really filling up everywhere we went. To the school system, to where we were seeing in housing, the demand for services. This church where we had to literally invent a Hispanic program here because all of a sudden, we had more Hispanics in the church than we had Anglos. And Anglo being a real roughly defined term. So, we had to kind of reinvent everything here going forward to try to address a population that largely did not speak English and had very specific needs as to what they were demanding. So that was a pretty unusual thing to work with and I had never really had that kind of experience. But I had a very sincere interest having grown up in the South during the year of, from going to segregation and the integration of schools, and working on various issues when I was a student trying to understand that. And seeing the same kind of issues starting to crop up with this whole new population coming in. I was having, as a professional, and as a Christian, trying to make adjustments. How do I approach this? How do I look at this population? Gosh, I wasn’t really sure what to do or how to respond appropriately.
AG: Thank you. So, you have a really long career as the director of planning. How have you been involved in planning for demographic changes such as this throughout your career?
RB: Well again, early in my career it was trying to make sure we were trying to address the various demographic segments in our communities. You know, a lot of time as city planners we do that from an age and income standpoint. And then, obviously during an era that I grew up in, an area of desegregation, we were also trying to make sure that the government was responsive of all of its citizens’ populations. And, including those of race. That is always a real challenge when you start to intersperse a political philosophies and orientations of governing and all the various aspects that create the dynamics of any community. But from a planning standpoint, our job, my job was the make sure that all the services and that people need for their daily lives, you know, whether it be water and sewer, or adequate schools or recreation facilities, that all these populations were adequately served and to make sure that we understood the dynamics that were going on with the various demographics of the community. Black white, young, old, rich poor. You know, whatever it needs to serve that community. When the Hispanic population started to come in, we started looking at another dynamic of people who need extra services because they were literally being integrated into a community as immigrants pretty much like what my grandparents went through and what my mother went through. Which they were integrated into this country from Ireland. So, trying to understand those dynamics and specific services was really, really important. Added to that, the growth of the Hispanic population in this community and many communities was just huge and expansive through almost two decades. Then, all of a sudden, the recession hit and it all kind of went [noise] stopped. I don't know that we saw a real reverse of Hispanics. We didn't see a lot of Hispanics moving away from this community after the recession hit in 2008, but we've seen, certainly saw April slowdown. One of the things that, that kept striking me is, is the dynamics that hits any immigrant population is that they're not static. They don't stay the same. And especially with the Hispanic population because we had all this massive amount of people who came into this community. Largely with, with little skills. Very little English, limited education, limited understanding of how a community like this operates and how they could get their needs fulfilled. All that was started at that point and then started the transition because they started having children. And it doesn't take long for children, little children to become big children and big children become adults. So literally today we're going through that transition of, of folks that are coming in as immigrants. Many of them are undocumented to having children. A lot of the DACA kids that we, that we worked with through the years to them also becoming American kids. But being born here such to the point, a couple of, about three months ago, I did a sermon here one Sunday speaking to the Anglo community. And I asked them to raise their hands, how many were from Lee County. And of course, from a community like this and a Catholic community, just a sprinkling of hands were raised at that mass. And I told them that if I were to go to the Spanish mass and asked the same question, probably half of the people in there would have raised their hands if they were born and raised in Lee County. So, the significant dynamics of the Hispanic--. Of the immigrant population becoming Americanized, Anglicized, was becoming pretty evident. To this day that you can go to the English mass in, there are large number of Hispanic families that now go to the English mass rather than a Spanish mass. Kind of rambled on that but--.
AG: No, that’s very interesting information. So--.
AG: When did you become a deacon of St. Stephens and how long have you been a part of this community? And could you tell us a little bit of what your role is at the church?
RB: About ten years ago, for a variety of reasons, I decided to go back to my original calling because I had thought I was going to be a priest. And the opportunity to become an ordained Catholic Deacon became available. And I waited for the first class that I could apply. A deacon in the Catholic church is so goes through similar training that that of a Catholic priest would go through except for not--. Or we stop at a point that that precedes becoming a priest. We were ordained as deacons and all priests ordained as deacons before they're priests. So, I entered into the formation for the diaconate program in 2009 and was in formation for five years as a deacon. And during that period of time, I think that's when I became more intensely interested in serving the Hispanic population here because one of my assignments was to serve at the Hispanic masses. So that's when I started doing that. I also became very involved with the priesthood we were assigned shortly thereafter, who came in here not only to serve the religious and spiritual needs of the parish, but also had been trained in assisting in their immigration needs as well. The pastor here is a certified immigration specialist. So, I started working with him during my training as a deacon, also being trained to assist people in their in their immigration needs as well. So, in 2014, I had two things happen in my life. One is I retired from public service after 45 years. And the second thing is I was ordained a Catholic deacon all along with 14 other men. And that's when I started my clerical career here. So, serving this parish as a deacon and also helping and assisting with the immigration services ward here in this parish.
AG: So, what are some of the challenges that you’ve encountered in this role?
RB: My number one challenge was language. I am not skilled in language at all, so that is always has been and continues to be a struggle. But probably one of the more difficult things is to try to work in situations that are intimidating. And I don't mean intimidating physically. I mean because I don't, I'm not sure that I always have the skills necessary to help. One of those is in the area of immigration work where I work with families that are applying for U-visas. And as you'll probably ask me later on, that involves people that have been the subject or the targets of crime. And some of the stories in some of the work in dealing with that has been hard on me. I'm dealing with the tragedies [inaudible] on some of these families. So that's probably been one of the bigger challenges. That and the language and, sometimes feeling inadequate to serve the multiple needs of a lot of these families that have lots of things that they need help on. Not just one, but my ultimate need is to serve their spiritual needs. So, I try to keep going back to that and then just trying to reach out and using some of the skills that I may have from other parts of my life.
AG: How many Spanish speaking parishes are there?
RB: There is a bunch. This is a community of roughly 6,500. Over 4,000 of that population are Hispanic. So, we're probably two thirds Hispanic at this parish. Yeah. And I'm not alone in that. We have two priests here. The Pastor does speak Spanish, as I mentioned. And we have two Hispanic deacons as well. And we also have another deacon that works within the Anglo community. But you're going to ask some more questions on that later on that, aren't you? And I’ll just delay that. Give you an answer to that.
AG: Could you tell us a little bit more about how St. Stephens has been supportive to immigrants in Lee County? So, this could be, what kinds of services does the church offer to immigrants? Maybe legal resources? You could tell us a little bit more about the U-Visa program or DACA workshops.
RB: Well, we've been really, really involved in that. Like I said, with the priest that came here, came here up here from down in your neck of the woods from Shalom. When he was down here with St. Brandon's, [inaudible] was certified as an immigration specialist before he came up here. So, when they came to this community, then there's two priests that came here from the order that they represent. They had some special skillsets that this community really, really needed. As I said, the depth of the Hispanic population in this area was very, very significant, not only in the parish, but throughout the region. The priest Father Robert Ippolito was also engaged with Catholic charities. So. we're serving more on a regional basis and not just the parish community. So, we've done a number of things. One of the first massive things that was done was the original DACA applications. This parish held multiple workshops trying to assist the, those young people in that process and probably has close to 1200 that we worked with, the not just in his parish but throughout the region. And they’ll come as far away as southeastern North Carolina, and as far as Charlotte. So, we're certainly a larger--. But most of them are concentrated here within this multi county area. So, we've done an extensive amount of work on, on DACA. Which until the, the president’s order, was a very significant part of the work that I've been doing. Then we've also been doing a lot of U-Visa work and I think we have a real expertise here and we get people from all over the diocese come to this location. And we also, the pastor has another office in Raleigh, so we end up servicing a lot of them. And my role in that is I--. My primary role in that is helping with the paperwork that goes along with the U-Visa applications and writing the transmittal letter. And the transmittal letter is a very formal document that shows how the application has met all the requirements of the U-Visa program, especially including the local law enforcement involvement. But I also have to write the stories. The stories of what the victims had been through. And again, that's probably the most difficult thing that I've had to deal with is writing notes. But we also do all full range of immigration services, including change of status, alien registration, the citizenship classes. We hold citizenship classes here and work with the applications. We do a variety of things. Most of that is done by Father Ippolito who is the certified representative. But we also have tried very hard to respond to some of the special crisis's that the Latino population has gone through. One of those for instances, we've held workshops on power of attorneys. We've held workshops on, well, you know, what do you do if large numbers of parents are removed from their children, much like we're experiencing right at this moment. And trying to help them with the legal aspects of that and the support aspects of that of trying to work through those very difficult situations and sometimes just responding to rumors. I know that the father was gone while one week and I was doing some work in Raleigh and I got a phone call from one of our parishioners that ICE was doing raids at Walmart. So, I drop whatever I was doing and raced all the way back to the parish to find out what was going on. In the meantime, calling my friends at local law enforcement here who have always been very helpful by the way. And in discovering that was just a rumor was something put out on, on one of the Hispanic radio stations. And it ended up being false alarm, but we were trying to respond because it was so significantly not only affect this parish, but all the Hispanic community that we feel responsible for because at the end of the day as Catholics, social justice is one of our principles that we stay very focused on.
AG: Thank you. So, what are, apart from some of the things that you've already mentioned, some of the biggest challenges that persists for local immigrants and their families?
RB: Well, we worked quite extensively with UNC on a process called the Latino Migration Project. That was a three-year study. That study resulted from my discovering what they were doing and making an application. And we had that study done here. We learned many, many things. I learned many things. I believe city government, county government, learned many things on the needs of the Hispanic population. The needs shouldn't be surprising to most people because the Hispanic population, the families want what any family wants. They want safety and security. They want the dignity of having a job, of having a job that they can afford to raise their families with. So, you know, we need to stay focused on that regardless of what happens on the national scene. We feel like we have an obligation to those families, to those people trying to achieve what any American citizen would want. And increasingly that's who these people are and that's to find a life for themselves and satisfy the needs of themselves and their family. So that's what I try to keep my attention focused on is how do we do that? Not in a static way, but in a change way? How do we provide for their needs as they make those transitions? Many of the Hispanic population, you know, came here to work and have jobs now are getting elderly and I don't think anybody's doing an adequate job of trying to address their needs, especially if they're undocumented because they have no way of having those needs addressed. There's no social security. There's no Medicaid for them. But there's going to be this massive population that are just going to continue to fall through the cracks. But then there are the families and the young children and how do we meet their needs? The DACA kids. Many of whom are very successful in high school are being accepted to colleges and having--. Are being forced to pay these massive tuitions that they can’t afford and trying to make a life for themselves and wanting to become Americans. And right now, everything's being closed off to them. So, so those are just some of the things that keep me up at night. I'm sure keeps them Father Ippolito up. And all the people here. We have a Hispanic--. Right next door is our Hispanic minister who that's what her job is. Is trying to serve those needs. So, you know, there is a pretty, pretty challenging things, especially in an environment we have today.
AG: Okay. Have you seen any large changes in the way that people are feeling about maybe security since the election or any instances of family separation?
RB: We fortunately have not had any real family separation here, likes it’s being experienced on the border. No, that's just not, has not been a massive problem. It's not that it isn't a problem because it's always potentially there. The biggest thing that’s going on right now is just the incredible anxiety and uncertainty of people just don't know what's going to happen. And there is nothing that's happening right now and nothing that I see in the foreseeable future that seems to be heading towards any kind of resolution. I mean, I, it's really hard for people. It's hard for me when I, when I can't find a resolution or when I see conflict that I, I can't resolve it. And I am, you know, an older middle-class white guy with all the privileges that go with that. And how would you feel if, if every day of your life you didn't, you didn't even know if somebody was going to knock on your door and take you away. And your children are going to be left here. I mean that's hard to live with and it just is so disconcerting. One of the things that is happening in this community is that, and that I'm very proud of, is this is a community that has a lot of compassion and that people are concerned about that and they're trying to be supportive. They're trying to be supportive at the governmental level, at the civic level. Not just this church, but all the churches. They understand those issues and are trying to be whatever help they can be. But at the end of the day, if I don't know what's going to happen to me, if someone knocks on my door. That's a horrible way to live and it's just so sad and injustice.
AG: Moving topics a little bit. Could you tell us a little bit about the Building Integrated Communities project in Siler City and how you’ve been involved with that?
RB: I have not been directly involved in that project. Of course, I was very involved in the one here in Sanford and Lee County, but we're trying to serve as a resource for them in Siler City. It's not going to be as a larger community as this one was here, but they're going to have many of the same issues that are going on. Coincidentally, I also work with the St. Julia Catholic church in Siler City. And so, I'm having those conversations with that parish as well. And the former police chief and I are friends. So, we've had many conversations and there are some wonderful people in Siler city. Both in the Hispanic community and the Anglo community. I'm very involved with the boys and Girls Club for Sanford and Lee County and Chatham County, including Siler City, which has a very active boys and girls club. So, we're trying to also use those kinds of mechanisms to try to feed into whatever [inaudible] they have going forward. But I have a pretty good feeling about Siler City because they are a very open and receptive community. That's not always boasted upon or promoted too much outside of small communities like ours, but it's very important. And I think the compassion that any community has is very important.
AG: Could you tell me a bit about the Building Integrated Communities project in Sanford?
RB: It was a wonderful program. Again, before I retired and while I was in formation for the Deaconate program, I made the application for the project. At that time there was only a few communities who had been through it. Winston-Salem and Greenville stick out in my mind. I think there were a couple of others. But we were one of the very first ones. And when Jessica Lee White and Dr. Gill came to us and we talked about the program, we just use that as a jumping point to try to get into issues that we thought were extremely important. And we had some real successes. The research that took place that we were very much involved in. Having a very active geographic information system program here. We were very, very able to supply a lot of the information we need it for the research. To have those public meetings for the Hispanic population probably for the first time really had a chance to come and speak about their needs, especially to appointed and elected officials to, the police chief and the sheriff and social services, the schools. It was just really nice to see. Let them have that opportunity to speak about their needs. So that was a very interesting process and I think some folks were surprised. The first thing that surprised me was the number of Hispanics who were willing to come out and talk. Again, you know, a lot of them were under the fear of deportation or being recorded or having--. But they were coming out sometimes a little reluctantly, but they were coming out in this environment that we tried to keep a feeling of trust and confidence and speaking about their needs. So, we had, I think, a lot of success in that the formation of the Hispanic Council here which has been very active. It was very helpful. The mayor was extremely supportive. Coming to speak at these events who came and spoke at an event one day where there was, gosh, several hundred people inside our church to speak to them, saying that the community, the city, wanted to help support their needs and be responsive to them. The police department coming and saying we want to help you. We don't want to just, you know, catch you driving without a license. So, or the lawyers coming in and talking about, you know, how to do powers of attorney. So, we had a lot of success during that process, both within the formal structure of the Latino Migration Project, but also add on things. Just ways to support the needs that they might have. One of our churches across town, the United Methodist Church in Jonesboro, created a program called El Refugio, which they got a grant from Duke and they were trying to serve Hispanic needs. The community college was very specific in trying to serve a lot of needs. So, all those things that happened during that process. And were all very successful and I'm very proud of the success that we had. But we also had some failures. One of the needs that we kept hearing over and over and over again was because the undocumented population are denied the ability to get a driver's license. They couldn't do simple things like go to the bank and cash a check or, you know, go to the grocery store and show an id or anything that everybody else is pretty comfortable with. And we tried really, really hard to develop a local ID program here, which like they've done in other communities. So, they were very successful in doing it in Burlington. Asheboro, I believe was successful in doing it. We couldn't get the first base here. There was--. It was about this time that the legislature was passing, trying to pass a bill that the disallowed any kind of local IDs. We just had a lot of resistance and were never able to get that done. And I was disappointed that that couldn't happen and still think is something that we should do. But the other biggest disappointment. I'm going to say is a disappointment. The Latino population, they need to become more and more engaged. Quickly. Because they are so significant. And we're talking about people who are citizens now. A significant percentage of our population are Hispanic. They need to be running for public office. You know, being an Irish American, you know, I knew that's what they, my family, our folks did in places like Boston and Philadelphia and New York. And the Latino population here has got to do the same thing. They've got to become engaged in the civic activities and political activities in one of these communities so that they are adequately represented and can speak for themselves.
AG: Could you tell me a little bit more about the positive outcomes and maybe the lasting effects of that BIC program? Things that you still see today?
RB: I think the very seeds, the mustard seeds, to use a religious term, of that process of that small little seeds is that they will start taking that process of being integrated into these communities and letting it blossom to become again engaged. This is not something that's going to happen overnight, but because of this project, I think a leadership structure is now being established within the Hispanic community. I think that that the recognition of the entire community, the Anglo community, the community at large, are recognizing that the Hispanic population is not only here but important. I know that a number of elected officials realize how important that population is. Our business community understands that if that population wasn't here, this community would take a significant economic hit. So that feeling of mutual need and mutual support, I think starting with this product and has grown pretty significantly since, since the project started and continues to grow every day.
AG: Thank you. That's most of what I have prepared. But is there anything else that you'd like to add? Maybe about the church or the community or anything in your career that you've experienced?
RB: I have gotten a lot of satisfaction in not only working on this project but also working in this community, both as a public servant and also as a member of the clergy. It has added dimensions to my life, you know, I'm almost 70 years old that I didn't really expect to happen in my life. So, it's been a very satisfying, very gratifying. But it's also made me more aware of what has always attracted me to my own faith. And that's that Catholic social justice that probably got birthed to me in the very early part of my life when I looked around and saw so much injustice in a country that promises justice and equality. It gave me the opportunity to say I need to be a part of it. And here at the end of my career, later in my life, I'm having the ability to fulfill a lot of things that started out when, gosh, when I was a teenager. And it's been very important to me and very gratifying.
AG: Thank you very much.
RB: You’re welcome very much.
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Urbanistas
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Temas
Integración y segregación; Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Religión; Movimiento de jóvenes 'Soñadores' y Acción Diferida; Comunidades receptoras
Es: Transcripción
Alexandra Graham: I almost forgot to ask you. Do you have any Hispanic members of staff at the church?
Robert Bridwell: Yes, absolutely. Especially with a parish this size. It has a large Hispanic population. We have a Hispanic minister. [inaudible]. A full-time staff member. We have two other deacons besides myself who are Hispanic deacons. The church administrative assistant and interpreter and girl we rely on completely is Hispanic. We, there’s a lot—she gives us a lot of assistance in interpreting. And just a lot of our groups are very involved in working with Hispanic programs. Our youth minister who’s not Hispanic, I mean, most of her population that she works with are Hispanic children. And our faith formation director here, the majority of the children that she works with are Hispanic. So, you know, we have a full-service Hispanic program that’s going on here. Probably could expand it like most churches could. But we spend a lot of time and a lot of effort trying to serve their needs.
AG: Thanks again, Deacon.
RB: Sure thing. Today, to a large extent, we’re ones that were characterized by very substantial rural population with a few good, decent size cities. Not a lot. And then that’s transitioned obviously traumatically over the years where, you know, we have a very large and dynamic metropolitan areas. But those rural areas are still pretty much rural. Especially when I lived in eastern North Carolina where the Hispanic population, the Latino population, were pretty much restricted to farmworkers, migrant workers that were coming up from Mexico. And that’s what I experienced until I came to Sanford, when I came here from Rocky Mount. Both from a Catholic standpoint and also as a public servant. Most of the experiences I had with the Hispanic population were migrant workers who were working on large farms in Nash County and Edgecombe County. When I came here, they were just starting to have that first wave of Hispanics that were coming here to work in nonagricultural industries. They were coming to work for the poultry houses that had been recruiting them heavily throughout Mexico. And for Tyson foods here in Sanford who’s responsible for making taco shells. And some of the other industries like Cody got Cosmex manufacturers that were also stating to recruit them. When I first came to Sanford in Lee County, still was not really aware that much of the Hispanic population. My first inclination was at church. We were in our previous location then, and the Hispanic wave of population coming into the area integrating, migrating into the community had just started. All of a sudden it seemed like overnight the church was packed in the Spanish mass. And they only had one back then. And they had to add a second one. And then more families seemed to appear. So, I started to think and notice from my standpoint of being the community’s planner, when we started looking at the demographics. So, it was 2002, so the census data was just starting to come in. In nineteen--in the last census--the 1990 census, the Hispanic population was probably less than two percent of the total population. By the time of the 2000 census, that had jumped up dramatically to the extent that probably over eighteen percent of the county population was Hispanic and a little higher percentage of the city population--. About 20 percent. About 1 out of 5. And we were starting to see that at the church. That’s when we said at church that we needed to do something to accommodate the population and we started looking at plans for a larger parish community here. The same thing was happening at work. The city and the county were starting to recognize that they had this huge influx of population but until we started analyzing the data we didn’t even realize what that meant. [Coughs]. So, we were starting to get phone calls from the school system asking for data because their school-age population was literally exploding. And that occurred very, very dramatically during the first decade of the new century until 2010 where we saw all these people really filling up everywhere we went. To the school system, to where we were seeing in housing, the demand for services. This church where we had to literally invent a Hispanic program here because all of a sudden, we had more Hispanics in the church than we had Anglos. And Anglo being a real roughly defined term. So, we had to kind of reinvent everything here going forward to try to address a population that largely did not speak English and had very specific needs as to what they were demanding. So that was a pretty unusual thing to work with and I had never really had that kind of experience. But I had a very sincere interest having grown up in the South during the year of, from going to segregation and the integration of schools, and working on various issues when I was a student trying to understand that. And seeing the same kind of issues starting to crop up with this whole new population coming in. I was having, as a professional, and as a Christian, trying to make adjustments. How do I approach this? How do I look at this population? Gosh, I wasn’t really sure what to do or how to respond appropriately.
AG: Thank you. So, you have a really long career as the director of planning. How have you been involved in planning for demographic changes such as this throughout your career?
RB: Well again, early in my career it was trying to make sure we were trying to address the various demographic segments in our communities. You know, a lot of time as city planners we do that from an age and income standpoint. And then, obviously during an era that I grew up in, an area of desegregation, we were also trying to make sure that the government was responsive of all of its citizens’ populations. And, including those of race. That is always a real challenge when you start to intersperse a political philosophies and orientations of governing and all the various aspects that create the dynamics of any community. But from a planning standpoint, our job, my job was the make sure that all the services and that people need for their daily lives, you know, whether it be water and sewer, or adequate schools or recreation facilities, that all these populations were adequately served and to make sure that we understood the dynamics that were going on with the various demographics of the community. Black white, young, old, rich poor. You know, whatever it needs to serve that community. When the Hispanic population started to come in, we started looking at another dynamic of people who need extra services because they were literally being integrated into a community as immigrants pretty much like what my grandparents went through and what my mother went through. Which they were integrated into this country from Ireland. So, trying to understand those dynamics and specific services was really, really important. Added to that, the growth of the Hispanic population in this community and many communities was just huge and expansive through almost two decades. Then, all of a sudden, the recession hit and it all kind of went [noise] stopped. I don't know that we saw a real reverse of Hispanics. We didn't see a lot of Hispanics moving away from this community after the recession hit in 2008, but we've seen, certainly saw April slowdown. One of the things that, that kept striking me is, is the dynamics that hits any immigrant population is that they're not static. They don't stay the same. And especially with the Hispanic population because we had all this massive amount of people who came into this community. Largely with, with little skills. Very little English, limited education, limited understanding of how a community like this operates and how they could get their needs fulfilled. All that was started at that point and then started the transition because they started having children. And it doesn't take long for children, little children to become big children and big children become adults. So literally today we're going through that transition of, of folks that are coming in as immigrants. Many of them are undocumented to having children. A lot of the DACA kids that we, that we worked with through the years to them also becoming American kids. But being born here such to the point, a couple of, about three months ago, I did a sermon here one Sunday speaking to the Anglo community. And I asked them to raise their hands, how many were from Lee County. And of course, from a community like this and a Catholic community, just a sprinkling of hands were raised at that mass. And I told them that if I were to go to the Spanish mass and asked the same question, probably half of the people in there would have raised their hands if they were born and raised in Lee County. So, the significant dynamics of the Hispanic--. Of the immigrant population becoming Americanized, Anglicized, was becoming pretty evident. To this day that you can go to the English mass in, there are large number of Hispanic families that now go to the English mass rather than a Spanish mass. Kind of rambled on that but--.
AG: No, that’s very interesting information. So--.
AG: When did you become a deacon of St. Stephens and how long have you been a part of this community? And could you tell us a little bit of what your role is at the church?
RB: About ten years ago, for a variety of reasons, I decided to go back to my original calling because I had thought I was going to be a priest. And the opportunity to become an ordained Catholic Deacon became available. And I waited for the first class that I could apply. A deacon in the Catholic church is so goes through similar training that that of a Catholic priest would go through except for not--. Or we stop at a point that that precedes becoming a priest. We were ordained as deacons and all priests ordained as deacons before they're priests. So, I entered into the formation for the diaconate program in 2009 and was in formation for five years as a deacon. And during that period of time, I think that's when I became more intensely interested in serving the Hispanic population here because one of my assignments was to serve at the Hispanic masses. So that's when I started doing that. I also became very involved with the priesthood we were assigned shortly thereafter, who came in here not only to serve the religious and spiritual needs of the parish, but also had been trained in assisting in their immigration needs as well. The pastor here is a certified immigration specialist. So, I started working with him during my training as a deacon, also being trained to assist people in their in their immigration needs as well. So, in 2014, I had two things happen in my life. One is I retired from public service after 45 years. And the second thing is I was ordained a Catholic deacon all along with 14 other men. And that's when I started my clerical career here. So, serving this parish as a deacon and also helping and assisting with the immigration services ward here in this parish.
AG: So, what are some of the challenges that you’ve encountered in this role?
RB: My number one challenge was language. I am not skilled in language at all, so that is always has been and continues to be a struggle. But probably one of the more difficult things is to try to work in situations that are intimidating. And I don't mean intimidating physically. I mean because I don't, I'm not sure that I always have the skills necessary to help. One of those is in the area of immigration work where I work with families that are applying for U-visas. And as you'll probably ask me later on, that involves people that have been the subject or the targets of crime. And some of the stories in some of the work in dealing with that has been hard on me. I'm dealing with the tragedies [inaudible] on some of these families. So that's probably been one of the bigger challenges. That and the language and, sometimes feeling inadequate to serve the multiple needs of a lot of these families that have lots of things that they need help on. Not just one, but my ultimate need is to serve their spiritual needs. So, I try to keep going back to that and then just trying to reach out and using some of the skills that I may have from other parts of my life.
AG: How many Spanish speaking parishes are there?
RB: There is a bunch. This is a community of roughly 6,500. Over 4,000 of that population are Hispanic. So, we're probably two thirds Hispanic at this parish. Yeah. And I'm not alone in that. We have two priests here. The Pastor does speak Spanish, as I mentioned. And we have two Hispanic deacons as well. And we also have another deacon that works within the Anglo community. But you're going to ask some more questions on that later on that, aren't you? And I’ll just delay that. Give you an answer to that.
AG: Could you tell us a little bit more about how St. Stephens has been supportive to immigrants in Lee County? So, this could be, what kinds of services does the church offer to immigrants? Maybe legal resources? You could tell us a little bit more about the U-Visa program or DACA workshops.
RB: Well, we've been really, really involved in that. Like I said, with the priest that came here, came here up here from down in your neck of the woods from Shalom. When he was down here with St. Brandon's, [inaudible] was certified as an immigration specialist before he came up here. So, when they came to this community, then there's two priests that came here from the order that they represent. They had some special skillsets that this community really, really needed. As I said, the depth of the Hispanic population in this area was very, very significant, not only in the parish, but throughout the region. The priest Father Robert Ippolito was also engaged with Catholic charities. So. we're serving more on a regional basis and not just the parish community. So, we've done a number of things. One of the first massive things that was done was the original DACA applications. This parish held multiple workshops trying to assist the, those young people in that process and probably has close to 1200 that we worked with, the not just in his parish but throughout the region. And they’ll come as far away as southeastern North Carolina, and as far as Charlotte. So, we're certainly a larger--. But most of them are concentrated here within this multi county area. So, we've done an extensive amount of work on, on DACA. Which until the, the president’s order, was a very significant part of the work that I've been doing. Then we've also been doing a lot of U-Visa work and I think we have a real expertise here and we get people from all over the diocese come to this location. And we also, the pastor has another office in Raleigh, so we end up servicing a lot of them. And my role in that is I--. My primary role in that is helping with the paperwork that goes along with the U-Visa applications and writing the transmittal letter. And the transmittal letter is a very formal document that shows how the application has met all the requirements of the U-Visa program, especially including the local law enforcement involvement. But I also have to write the stories. The stories of what the victims had been through. And again, that's probably the most difficult thing that I've had to deal with is writing notes. But we also do all full range of immigration services, including change of status, alien registration, the citizenship classes. We hold citizenship classes here and work with the applications. We do a variety of things. Most of that is done by Father Ippolito who is the certified representative. But we also have tried very hard to respond to some of the special crisis's that the Latino population has gone through. One of those for instances, we've held workshops on power of attorneys. We've held workshops on, well, you know, what do you do if large numbers of parents are removed from their children, much like we're experiencing right at this moment. And trying to help them with the legal aspects of that and the support aspects of that of trying to work through those very difficult situations and sometimes just responding to rumors. I know that the father was gone while one week and I was doing some work in Raleigh and I got a phone call from one of our parishioners that ICE was doing raids at Walmart. So, I drop whatever I was doing and raced all the way back to the parish to find out what was going on. In the meantime, calling my friends at local law enforcement here who have always been very helpful by the way. And in discovering that was just a rumor was something put out on, on one of the Hispanic radio stations. And it ended up being false alarm, but we were trying to respond because it was so significantly not only affect this parish, but all the Hispanic community that we feel responsible for because at the end of the day as Catholics, social justice is one of our principles that we stay very focused on.
AG: Thank you. So, what are, apart from some of the things that you've already mentioned, some of the biggest challenges that persists for local immigrants and their families?
RB: Well, we worked quite extensively with UNC on a process called the Latino Migration Project. That was a three-year study. That study resulted from my discovering what they were doing and making an application. And we had that study done here. We learned many, many things. I learned many things. I believe city government, county government, learned many things on the needs of the Hispanic population. The needs shouldn't be surprising to most people because the Hispanic population, the families want what any family wants. They want safety and security. They want the dignity of having a job, of having a job that they can afford to raise their families with. So, you know, we need to stay focused on that regardless of what happens on the national scene. We feel like we have an obligation to those families, to those people trying to achieve what any American citizen would want. And increasingly that's who these people are and that's to find a life for themselves and satisfy the needs of themselves and their family. So that's what I try to keep my attention focused on is how do we do that? Not in a static way, but in a change way? How do we provide for their needs as they make those transitions? Many of the Hispanic population, you know, came here to work and have jobs now are getting elderly and I don't think anybody's doing an adequate job of trying to address their needs, especially if they're undocumented because they have no way of having those needs addressed. There's no social security. There's no Medicaid for them. But there's going to be this massive population that are just going to continue to fall through the cracks. But then there are the families and the young children and how do we meet their needs? The DACA kids. Many of whom are very successful in high school are being accepted to colleges and having--. Are being forced to pay these massive tuitions that they can’t afford and trying to make a life for themselves and wanting to become Americans. And right now, everything's being closed off to them. So, so those are just some of the things that keep me up at night. I'm sure keeps them Father Ippolito up. And all the people here. We have a Hispanic--. Right next door is our Hispanic minister who that's what her job is. Is trying to serve those needs. So, you know, there is a pretty, pretty challenging things, especially in an environment we have today.
AG: Okay. Have you seen any large changes in the way that people are feeling about maybe security since the election or any instances of family separation?
RB: We fortunately have not had any real family separation here, likes it’s being experienced on the border. No, that's just not, has not been a massive problem. It's not that it isn't a problem because it's always potentially there. The biggest thing that’s going on right now is just the incredible anxiety and uncertainty of people just don't know what's going to happen. And there is nothing that's happening right now and nothing that I see in the foreseeable future that seems to be heading towards any kind of resolution. I mean, I, it's really hard for people. It's hard for me when I, when I can't find a resolution or when I see conflict that I, I can't resolve it. And I am, you know, an older middle-class white guy with all the privileges that go with that. And how would you feel if, if every day of your life you didn't, you didn't even know if somebody was going to knock on your door and take you away. And your children are going to be left here. I mean that's hard to live with and it just is so disconcerting. One of the things that is happening in this community is that, and that I'm very proud of, is this is a community that has a lot of compassion and that people are concerned about that and they're trying to be supportive. They're trying to be supportive at the governmental level, at the civic level. Not just this church, but all the churches. They understand those issues and are trying to be whatever help they can be. But at the end of the day, if I don't know what's going to happen to me, if someone knocks on my door. That's a horrible way to live and it's just so sad and injustice.
AG: Moving topics a little bit. Could you tell us a little bit about the Building Integrated Communities project in Siler City and how you’ve been involved with that?
RB: I have not been directly involved in that project. Of course, I was very involved in the one here in Sanford and Lee County, but we're trying to serve as a resource for them in Siler City. It's not going to be as a larger community as this one was here, but they're going to have many of the same issues that are going on. Coincidentally, I also work with the St. Julia Catholic church in Siler City. And so, I'm having those conversations with that parish as well. And the former police chief and I are friends. So, we've had many conversations and there are some wonderful people in Siler city. Both in the Hispanic community and the Anglo community. I'm very involved with the boys and Girls Club for Sanford and Lee County and Chatham County, including Siler City, which has a very active boys and girls club. So, we're trying to also use those kinds of mechanisms to try to feed into whatever [inaudible] they have going forward. But I have a pretty good feeling about Siler City because they are a very open and receptive community. That's not always boasted upon or promoted too much outside of small communities like ours, but it's very important. And I think the compassion that any community has is very important.
AG: Could you tell me a bit about the Building Integrated Communities project in Sanford?
RB: It was a wonderful program. Again, before I retired and while I was in formation for the Deaconate program, I made the application for the project. At that time there was only a few communities who had been through it. Winston-Salem and Greenville stick out in my mind. I think there were a couple of others. But we were one of the very first ones. And when Jessica Lee White and Dr. Gill came to us and we talked about the program, we just use that as a jumping point to try to get into issues that we thought were extremely important. And we had some real successes. The research that took place that we were very much involved in. Having a very active geographic information system program here. We were very, very able to supply a lot of the information we need it for the research. To have those public meetings for the Hispanic population probably for the first time really had a chance to come and speak about their needs, especially to appointed and elected officials to, the police chief and the sheriff and social services, the schools. It was just really nice to see. Let them have that opportunity to speak about their needs. So that was a very interesting process and I think some folks were surprised. The first thing that surprised me was the number of Hispanics who were willing to come out and talk. Again, you know, a lot of them were under the fear of deportation or being recorded or having--. But they were coming out sometimes a little reluctantly, but they were coming out in this environment that we tried to keep a feeling of trust and confidence and speaking about their needs. So, we had, I think, a lot of success in that the formation of the Hispanic Council here which has been very active. It was very helpful. The mayor was extremely supportive. Coming to speak at these events who came and spoke at an event one day where there was, gosh, several hundred people inside our church to speak to them, saying that the community, the city, wanted to help support their needs and be responsive to them. The police department coming and saying we want to help you. We don't want to just, you know, catch you driving without a license. So, or the lawyers coming in and talking about, you know, how to do powers of attorney. So, we had a lot of success during that process, both within the formal structure of the Latino Migration Project, but also add on things. Just ways to support the needs that they might have. One of our churches across town, the United Methodist Church in Jonesboro, created a program called El Refugio, which they got a grant from Duke and they were trying to serve Hispanic needs. The community college was very specific in trying to serve a lot of needs. So, all those things that happened during that process. And were all very successful and I'm very proud of the success that we had. But we also had some failures. One of the needs that we kept hearing over and over and over again was because the undocumented population are denied the ability to get a driver's license. They couldn't do simple things like go to the bank and cash a check or, you know, go to the grocery store and show an id or anything that everybody else is pretty comfortable with. And we tried really, really hard to develop a local ID program here, which like they've done in other communities. So, they were very successful in doing it in Burlington. Asheboro, I believe was successful in doing it. We couldn't get the first base here. There was--. It was about this time that the legislature was passing, trying to pass a bill that the disallowed any kind of local IDs. We just had a lot of resistance and were never able to get that done. And I was disappointed that that couldn't happen and still think is something that we should do. But the other biggest disappointment. I'm going to say is a disappointment. The Latino population, they need to become more and more engaged. Quickly. Because they are so significant. And we're talking about people who are citizens now. A significant percentage of our population are Hispanic. They need to be running for public office. You know, being an Irish American, you know, I knew that's what they, my family, our folks did in places like Boston and Philadelphia and New York. And the Latino population here has got to do the same thing. They've got to become engaged in the civic activities and political activities in one of these communities so that they are adequately represented and can speak for themselves.
AG: Could you tell me a little bit more about the positive outcomes and maybe the lasting effects of that BIC program? Things that you still see today?
RB: I think the very seeds, the mustard seeds, to use a religious term, of that process of that small little seeds is that they will start taking that process of being integrated into these communities and letting it blossom to become again engaged. This is not something that's going to happen overnight, but because of this project, I think a leadership structure is now being established within the Hispanic community. I think that that the recognition of the entire community, the Anglo community, the community at large, are recognizing that the Hispanic population is not only here but important. I know that a number of elected officials realize how important that population is. Our business community understands that if that population wasn't here, this community would take a significant economic hit. So that feeling of mutual need and mutual support, I think starting with this product and has grown pretty significantly since, since the project started and continues to grow every day.
AG: Thank you. That's most of what I have prepared. But is there anything else that you'd like to add? Maybe about the church or the community or anything in your career that you've experienced?
RB: I have gotten a lot of satisfaction in not only working on this project but also working in this community, both as a public servant and also as a member of the clergy. It has added dimensions to my life, you know, I'm almost 70 years old that I didn't really expect to happen in my life. So, it's been a very satisfying, very gratifying. But it's also made me more aware of what has always attracted me to my own faith. And that's that Catholic social justice that probably got birthed to me in the very early part of my life when I looked around and saw so much injustice in a country that promises justice and equality. It gave me the opportunity to say I need to be a part of it. And here at the end of my career, later in my life, I'm having the ability to fulfill a lot of things that started out when, gosh, when I was a teenager. And it's been very important to me and very gratifying.
AG: Thank you very much.
RB: You’re welcome very much.
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Es: Resumen
Robert (Bob) Bridwell es un diácono de la iglesia católica St. Stephen en la ciudad de Sanford, NC. También trabajó muchos años como el director de planificación para el municipio de Sanford. En la entrevista, Diácono Bridwell describe los servicios que provee la iglesia para residentes que han migrado de Latinoamérica. Él comparte sobre su carrera larga de planificación urbana y activismo y habla sobre cómo los cambios demográficos en el condado de Lee han dado forma de nuevo las necesidades de los miembros de la comunida. Habla sobre los desafíos más grandes que afrontan las familias inmigrantes (mayoría hispanas o latinas) en las partes rurales de Carolina del Norte. El habla de su rol en la iniciativa Construyendo comunidades integradas, una colaboración con el municipio de Sanford y el “Latino Migration Project” en la Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill. También nos cuente de su trabajo en la iglesia para buscar a soluciones y recursos para estos problemas. La entrevista tomó lugar en la oficina de Diácono Bridwell en la iglesia católica de St. Stephen y duró aproximadamente 37 minutos. Fuera de su oficina, había construcción en la iglesia. Había ruidos de construcción durante la entrevista, pero no interfirieron en la habilidad de escuchar la entrevista. Alexandra es una estudiante posgrado en la Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill. Ella está trabajando en su maestría en la enseñanza con una especialidad en la educación primaria y la enseñanza de inglés como segundo idioma. Ella se graduó de la Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill en mayo 2018 con un título en la Lingüística Hispana y otro título en la Economía. Durante su último semestre, ella fue entrenada en la historia oral por el Proyecto de Nuevas Raíces. Diácono Bridwell ha sido ordenado como diácono católico desde 2014, el mismo año en lo cual se jubiló después de 45 años como urbanista. Desde entonces, ha trabajado en la iglesia católica de St. Stephen. Durante su tiempo allí, ha servido en misas hispanohablantes a través de un intérprete y ha aprendido a proveer ciertos servicios a cerca de retos legales afrontados por inmigrantes.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Robert Bridwell, 19 junio 2018, R-0990, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
R-0990 -- Bridwell, Robert.
Description
An account of the resource
This interview was conducted by interviewer Alexandra Graham with interviewee Deacon Robert (Bob) Bridwell. The main focus of the interview is Deacon Bridwell’s responsibilities at St. Stephen Catholic Church. Much of his work in the church surrounds immigration services. He tells us about the services St. Stephen’s provides as well as what projects he personally works on. He shares about his long career of city planning and activism and talks about how demographic changes in Lee County (the county where he resides) have reshaped the needs of community members and therefore what services he works with. He talks about the biggest challenges facing immigrant families (majority Hispanic/Latino) in rural North Carolina and how his church is working to provide solutions and resources for those problems. He also discusses his involvement in the Building Integrated Communities initiative, a collaboration with the City of Sanford, Lee County, and the Latino Migration Project at UNC Chapel Hill. The interview, which took place in Deacon Bridwell’s office at St. Stephen Catholic Church, lasted about 37 minutes. Outside of his office, construction was going on to build a new addition to the church. There were construction noises throughout the interview, but it does not interfere with the ability to hear what was said.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-06-19
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28600">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
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R0990_Audio.mp3
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/2d8c8a1cf240fbcf6f003c6e315b1430.mp3
d07d1169196a67d4d82e08c18b922c57
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/46155d8e5b75ae85bf34270d8d807523.pdf
082073362e9df8f8ca1e1ff2f738293a
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0988
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2019-06-27
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Zaeem, Abu.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Educators
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Pakistan
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Greensboro -- Guilford County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
NA
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Marable, Hannah.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Abu Zaeem describes his position as the principal of Doris Henderson Newcomers School in Greensboro, North Carolina. He explains how the school serves immigrant and refugee students in grades three through twelve for one, two, or three semesters by helping them acclimate to English and the American school system before they are transitioned to their home public schools. He discusses services and strategies to help students who are dealing with trauma upon arriving to the United States. He shares several of the challenges of his work, including communicating with parents when there are language barriers and dropout rates among older students who want to work. He emphasized that while the Newcomers School is a great option for many families, some choose traditional schools because of location, age of other siblings, or other reasons. He shared the limitations of a small school for a growing population of students, and admitted that funding is consistently an issue. Finally, he emphasized that the work of the Newcomers School would be impossible without its teachers, who are invested in educating and advocating for students and their well-being every day.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Abu Zaeem, 27 June 2019, R-0988, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28597
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Integration and segregation; Language and Communication; Community and social services and programs; Receiving communities; Education
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Hannah Marable: Hi. I’m Hannah Marable and I’m here with Mr. Abu Zaeem on June 27, 2019 at 10:36AM at Doris Henderson Newcomers School in Greensboro, North Carolina. I’m here with him to learn more about his role as the principal of the Newcomers School and understand how his school supports immigrant and refugee students. Mr. Zaeem, how are you doing?
Abu Zaeem: Doing well. How are you?
HM: Good. I’m good. Do I have your consent to record this interview?
AZ: You do.
HM: Okay. Will you tell us a little bit about how and why this school got started and how you got involved?
AZ: Sure. Sure. So, the school came about… The first year that it opened was back in 2007, 2008. A little over ten years ago. There was a need in Guilford County because there were so many ESL students that were coming in that were newcomer students. So, there was a need for us to open a newcomer’s school. You had students that were coming in that had varying abilities from all over the spectrum in terms of formal education. Some had lots of formal education, some didn’t have any formal education at all. So, it made it really challenging for schools to be able to take those students without a newcomer’s program and to be able to acclimate them to schools. Some of them had been in schools for the first time in their life. So, we felt like we needed to open something like a newcomer’s program here in Guildford County so that way we can bring students in for at least a year and get them back into the U.S. school system, get them acclimated to the language. You know, in terms of how the U.S. school system works. And then after a year, transition them on to their home schools which is where they currently live. We serve students from all over the district. So, they come to us. They’re bussed to us from all over the district. The way I’ve gotten involved, this is my third year here as a principal. I am a former ESL student. I was born and raised in Pakistan. My family migrated to the United States back in the early nineties. So, as they were looking for someone to lead the school, I guess they wanted someone to be able to relate to their families, relate to the experience of coming into the country. And I was placed here back in--. Two years ago. So, this will be my third year as the principal of Doris Henderson Newcomer’s School.
HM: Okay great. And who is Doris Henderson?
AZ: Doris Henderson is the previous principal. So, this was a--. It catered two buildings. This was a primary school and she was a longtime principal in this building off the primary school. And, you know, due to her service and her dedication to this profession, you know when they came up with the program, they named it after her. Doris Henderson. She is still very much active in our community. She comes to all of our school functions. She comes and walks the hallways and she is just another stakeholder for us. It’s great for us to have her around.
HM: Okay. Awesome. Okay. I would love to talk about some of the programs that you have here at your school. So, what are some of the best ways that you feel like schools and teachers can support newcomer students and what do those programs look like here?
AZ: Yeah. So, I think, you know, of course, we in terms of our support we try to make sure that--. A little bit about our school. We have students that are refugees and students who are immigrants. So that dynamic has changed a little. Back when it first started you had majority of the students were refugees and we had a few immigrants. Well, over time it’s been almost close to fifty fifty. And now you have more immigrants than you have refugees. When you think about students and even immigrants, you know, they are coming in for different reasons. They’re coming with a lot of trauma. You know, they’re coming from--. A lot of our students are coming from African countries. They’re coming from war-torn countries. A lot of them are coming in without their parents. Those types of things. So, one of the things when I first got here, we didn’t have you know, some of the arts that we were offering. When you have students who are coming in, who are going to struggle with the language, they’re going to struggle with the reading and the writing, you got to make sure that you got arts that you can offer to them. Things like music, things like actual art, dance programs. Those types of things. So that way that’s just another way for them to express themselves because unfortunately they’re not able to do so in the English language. So, that’s a way that we provide them support. We also have, because of the trauma and some of the baggage that they come to us with, we have partnered with the local university UNCG. And they provide psychological services for our students. So, we work with the staff to see if some of the signs that they may observe from the students. Or, you know, some of the social histories that students may be coming to us with and we out of our title one funds, have created a partnership with them and they provide a limited number of support, amount of support, in terms of families. Not just the students but also their families. And it is off campus. So, in terms of the [inaudible], you know you guys here in education, the social and emotional learning. So, that is a big piece. You know, unless they feel socially and emotionally comfortable and safe to be in this environment, you know, regardless of what you do with them academically, they’re not going to be able to learn. So that’s something that is really important. Academically, you know, we bring them in and we have tier classes. So, depending on their level of formal education in the past, we place them according to their level. So, we assist their reading levels. We place them in classes based on the formal education they’re coming to us with. We’ve had children that have come to us that have had no formal education at all. And we have a group within ESL group that we place them in that classroom which is more of a self-contained classroom. And they stay with that classroom and those students all throughout the day because the support of those students are going to need are going to be a little bit more than what others are going to need. In terms of supports in the community, we have a wonderful school social worker. She looks out into the community to make sure that, in terms of insurance, in terms of housing, some of those things, that a lot of our refugees and immigrants’ parents are going to need, they’re able to look for those communities and forced to provide help. For them, we do parent events twice a year and we invite folks like immigration attorneys, we invite folks from outside in the community come and talk to our parents because we realize the need to be able to equip our parents with the tools that they need to support our children. We can do everything with them but parents are the ones who are going to need to be empowered to continue to support our children. So, we do a lot with them. We also do a Saturday literacy program where we bring parents in and we do Saturday ESL classes for them. We’re also looking to start a next year, on Saturdays, a business entrepreneurial classroom. One of the things we’re finding is just because, you know, they don’t know the language, they’re coming to us with a lot of skills that they’ve learned in their countries which can very much be applicable here in this country. So, they just need to be able to pick up those entrepreneurial skills and know the system and how to become an entrepreneur you know, down the line. Those are just some of the supports that we provide.
HM: Yeah. That’s awesome. And I know that Guilford County has the Parents Success Academy.
AZ: Parent Academy.
HM: The Parent Academy. How does the Parent Academy work with your school?
AZ: Yeah. So, the Parent Academy holds a lot of the sessions out in the district. You know, one of the ones that they just held lately was on opioids. And for the parents to be aware of some of the signs and things that they may see out in the community or how they can make sure that children are, you know, are not exposed to those things. So, the things that they’re offered in the district, we just make the parents aware of them. And a lot of those are off campus so, central locations within the district. We just make the parents aware of those sessions to make sure that they attend them. But that becomes an obstacle for our parents because all the events that we do here are, we have interpreters. So, you have a Spanish interpreter, you have an Arabic interpreter, French, Swahili, and Vietnamese interpreters. So, when they come to our events, you have someone there that is translating in their language. Unfortunately, when you have district events that are on such a large scale, and you have so many different languages that are spoken they don’t always have an interpreter for them. So, one of the things that we find is, our events here are more attended than the ones that are offered by the district because there isn’t someone there to be able to offer them their translation service.
HM: I see. So, you’ve talked about this a little bit but I want to talk about it a little more.
AZ: Sure.
HM: So, I’m interested in how you create safe spaces for your students. How you make your students feel safe here at the school. So, maybe that safety from threat of deportation or a place where students can feel safe to speak their native language and be themselves. So, how do you do that here at your school?
AZ: Sure. Sure. So, I think the first thing I’ll start with the deportation and the ICE. That is a really hot topic. We have, unfortunately I know all of us have heard about the different tactics that they’ve used and you know, them being in neighborhoods and near schools. So, a lot of our parents they think that because children are going to schools as they’re leaving schools, you know, the officials are going to be waiting somewhere they know children are going to be there and they’re going to you know, talk with the students or whatnot. So, the first thing is we actually this year communicated multiple times to parents about this being a safe place. You know, when they’re here, no one is asking them about their immigration status. We’re not, we have no concern of that at all. We are concerned for them and we understand you know, that they are worried about things like that but we try to assure them that this is a safe place from the time that they get on the bus at the bus stop, to arriving to school, being in school, to arriving back at home. That it’s a safe place we can assure them that. And the district has assured us that we will assure the parents that nothing is going to impact them at all. Other than that, what happens out in the community unfortunately the school doesn’t have control over that. But, we try, you know, communicate with them that this is a safe zone. As far as the, I think the second question was, what was-- ?
HM: How do they feel safe to be themselves, to speak their language--.
AZ: Right. Right. One of the things that we have as new staff is coming in, and we do staff development every year. You have to find that balance in a school like ours and anywhere else when students leave. You have to find that balance between students being able to speak their language and students being asked to speak English. Of course, we want them to speak English because that is an area of literacy, the speaking piece that we want to make sure, for the language acquisition piece of it, we want to make sure that they are continuing to practice the written and the spoken English. But at the same time, we want to honor their heritages. We want to honor their backgrounds and what they’re bringing to us. Instead of looking at it as a negative thing, we try to use it as something positive. So, you know, let’s say the two of you guys and both of you guys speak French. You had previous English instructions you may not have. So, one of the things that we try to use that to our advantage is we may pair students together with common languages and we say, well you understand English and you can explain this to someone who doesn’t understand English. So, tap into that as something positive instead of you don’t know English as that being a negative thing. But then there are times we say okay we do need you to respond back to us in English. So, to be able to provide them with that support, we do one of the things that we started working on a couple of years back, we do language sentence trainings. So, we try to provide them with language support that they need in order to be able to respond to the questions that teachers are asking. So, we provide them these sentence frames which are nothing more than just fill in the blanks. You’re giving them some of the language and they’re filling the blanks that way--. And one of the things that we see common all the time is ESL children they will give you one- or two-word answers. Well, so you take those one or two words and plug it into the language frame and now you’ve given us a full complete sentence and then that way children feel, you know, pretty strong about being able to, being able to take part in the conversation discussion in classrooms which helps them continue to motivate them to continue to learn the English. So, you have to be able to find that balance between using their language and at the same time using English. So, we try to make sure to tell the teachers that they are not to tell the students you cannot use your language. There are times that it is okay to use it because you want to make sure they comprehend what they’re reading and we’ll know when you read something you can understand it but being able to say it back in your own words, that’s tough especially when you’re learning the language of English. So, to check their comprehension even if they can show you in their language that they can understand, at the end of the day they comprehend it. Reading and understanding and the speaking of the English language is going to come over time. And they’re only here in their first year, sowe know that sometimes that is not going to happen while they’re here. So, just trying to be understanding of that process of language acquisition is extremely important.
HM: Okay. And you’d mention that you have students who have experienced trauma, so let’s say a student comes in and is feeling the effects of this trauma.
AZ: Sure.
HM: How do you handle that situation?
AZ: Yeah, so that’s a great question. We have an enrollment specialist so the wonderful thing about our program is although we haven’t had a lot of turnover, she’s been here from day one. So, she has seen every type of student that is coming in with a lot of different trauma. So, one of the things that we do is during the enrollment time, when they first come in, whether with a resettlement group or whether they come with a community advocate or whoever, we do an interview with them. So, as they’re coming in and she knows the types of questions to ask to be able to probe some of the information from them. So, you know, someone’s coming in, you know, okay, well, who are you? You know, if you’re not the mom or the dad, okay well what kind of affidavits and things that you can provide and then if you’re traveling without a parent, then of course that’s going to have some sort of trauma attached to it. What happened to them? So, we do an interview with them to be able to get some basic information and just based on that information, we get that information over to our school social worker. And you know, she goes out and does social history and meets with the parents or meets with the guardians or whoever came to enroll them to collect more information. And then our school social worker is our liaison between the school and UNCG psychological service to see, maybe, there is something that we may be able to, you know, do for them. Definitely not something right away. We want to get the child here. We want to work with them a little bit.
HM: Yeah.
AZ: Just to see all those sometimes, as adults we feel like they’re coming, they’re maybe coming with trauma. Sometimes they may surprise us and they may feel like, hey, we don’t need the services. We are okay with that. And, you know, you don’t want to jump into the services too quickly because you don’t want to bring back some memories that they already left behind. So, our thing is wait to get them in and you work with them for a couple of weeks, and then if you see signs from the child, you see signs from the adults of the family, and then you see the social interview that we’ve done with them, put everything together and then you do the recommendation for the psychological services.
HM: Okay. Great. And, I know that students are allowed to stay here for up to a year. So, how or who decides or how do you decide when a student is ready to leave? Do most of your students stay the entire year? Do they stay less than a year? What do you see?
AZ: Sure. That’s a great question. So, according to the office of civil rights, we don’t, it’s not just us that say we’re just going to keep them only for a year. According to the office of civil rights, we are segregating the students according to their demographics. These are refugees and immigrants. So, we have to be very careful with that. So, from their directive, they say, you can keep them for a year and when I first got here, I wanted to research this because I wanted to make sure I understood it. And in their [inaudible] they actually stated there that they can stay for a year unless the school feels like a child can benefit from being here for longer than a year. So, for us a year is two semesters. So, sometimes you have students who stay for longer than a semester. Sometimes you have say, some that stay less than a semester. And I’ll give you examples of who stays longer and who stays less. So, let’s say you have a child that comes in let’s say in January. So, from January to May or to June is one semester. And the next year from August to December or January is another semester. Well, let’s say a child comes in and the child you know, everything in the United States educational system is done by age. So, until you get to high school then everything is done by credits, right? So, let’s say you’re coming in and you are eight or nine years of age and you are of the age to be in third/fourth grade. You’ve had no formal education at all. So, we’re starting from--. We have had to do that. We’re starting from scratch. This is how you hold a pencil. This is what letter ‘A’ looks like. This is what letter ‘B’ looks like. For some of those students who are coming with no formal education or what we call, an interruptive formal education, used to be SIFE students who interrupt formal education, now it’s SLIFE who are just students with limited interruptive formal education and interruption is designed depending on which, you know, what do you pick up and read about it. It’s anywhere from two to three years of a gap that it talks about. So, for students coming to us that we consider SIFE, those are the students that sometimes we do exercise their option of keeping them for longer than a year. What we see from some of the students as well is you keep them for three semesters longer. Sometimes what we recognize or what we pinpoint is, sometimes, they go through our instructional, our IST, or sometimes they go through our EC program because some of those students may also have some sort of a learning disability. You put interventions in place through IST team and then you look to see if those interventions work to rule out any some sort of a disability that they may be, you know, they may be experiencing that may really prevent them from learning the content. You have to be careful with that because they’re in their first year in the United States so it is going to be difficult for some to show mastery of growth right away. So, sometimes, we give them six months to a year just to have enough exposure to the English language. So, sometimes those are the kids that we keep them for three semesters because the process really takes a year and a half for them to have some time under their belt to show some understanding of something that they’re learning for us to be able to assess. Whether they’ve learned their materials or if they haven’t with interventions. Additional interventions have them learn them and if they if they haven’t, then maybe for them exceptional students’ services todetermine to do additional testing to see if there is some sort of a disability. So, those are the students that we may end up keeping them for longer than a year. On the opposite, we may have some students that we may keep them for less than a year. For less than two semesters. So, one of the trends that has changed over the last couple of years is, a lot of our--. More of our students are coming from our Spanish speaking countries where you have formal education. You know, you have something like the hurricane in Puerto Rico and you see an influx of families that are settling here. Puerto Rico has a real established educational system and a lot of your students are coming to you with, you know, being exposed to the English language. So, sometimes, they, parents bring their children here and they enroll them here for one semester just to get an idea of what the, U.S. system, educational system is like. You know, a lot of them are older so they may be looking to see how many credits do you need to graduate. Those types of things. But then after a semester, they may be ready to go on to their, you know, home schools and be ready to take additional classes. You also have, we don’t offer the full spectrum of courses because you know, just the number of students and the faculty that we have. So, I’ll give you an example. You require four Englishes for a student to graduate from our school. We only offer English one and English two because very rarely do we get students who have courses that are equivalent to an English two or English one here in the United States. When the other student who’s maxed those out and they neede an English three, they can’t take that here so we look at an early transition for them to go to another school where they can take those classes. So, it just depends. A lot of your older students depends on their education. Their previous education. The number of credits they’re coming to us with and what we are able to offer them. Sometimes, if we’re not able to offer them with any more credits, there’s no need for them to stay here because then that’s just wasting their time because they could be taking additional credits at their home schools. So sometimes we’re going to transition them early.
HM: Okay. And do students have a say in when they are ready to leave? Or, is that a decision that--.
AZ: Well, normally it is a decision that we make. If they’ve been here for a year and unless they are part of our IST or going through the EC process, you know, after a year, then probably eighty-five to ninety percent of our students will leave after a year. Sometimes, we do get the input of the teachers. Sometimes we’re on the fence because I recognize that I’m in an office. I’m not teaching them every day. And teachers are the ones who hold the expertise in teaching the children every day. So, sometimes we do have teachers that come to say, hey I think this kid really can benefit from being here another semester. Then we ask them, let’s take a look at their data. Because, we have to be mindful because these are opportunities that we are providing for them and we have to have equitable practices to be able to provide these opportunities for children because at the end of the day, if we offer this opportunity just about all of our parents will want our children to be here for more than a year. So, when we are making the decision of sending someone after a year versus keeping them here for an extra semester, you have to be able to justify. So, we definitely go back to the teachers and ask them for the data to do a comparison between someone that we are transitioning early or someone we are transitioning after a year and this child and if the data shows that this child hasn’t learned at the same pace that we expect them to then we can bring them back. So, they do have some say. And then sometimes parents. We also transition in the middle of the year. And that’s a tough transition for elementary and middle school students. Transitions. So, we just did a transition in June and students will start at their new schools in August. That is a natural transition because everyone is starting out at a new school. You may have people who have moved. So, when they start at a new school in August, you know, it is okay because everyone’s going to make new friends. People are going to be in different classes. So, it is okay. But the transition that we do in January, that is a tougher transition for elementary and middle because as someone who struggles with English in a new country, and now, I am in a new school in January where everyone has made friends. Now I am, you know, a stranger in the classroom and it’s going to be hard for me to make friends. Just for that sometimes, students will struggle with their social and emotional ways. We consider maybe keeping them back for another semester and transitioning them in August when it’s a little more natural or time for them to start a new school.
HM: Great. And I know that in the PowerPoint you gave us, there are some obstacles to educating these students listed that I’m excited to look over. But would you talk about some of the challenges about the work that you do here concerning these students?
AZ: Yeah. Absolutely. I think language is always the first one. I mean, I think even when they’re here, parents and teachers communicating with the parents, you have to have an interpreter there all the time talking with the students. Sometimes they understand, they don’t. And rightfully so because they’re just learning the language. Parental involvement is something that we also struggle with because as you may imagine, you know settling into a new country and if it’s not under favorable conditions, parents are working. They’re busy. You know working different times of the day and then getting them here for parent conferences or for parent events. Sometimes that is challenging. Transportation is also challenging because if you guys know a little bit about Guilford County, from one side of Guilford County to the other is quite a few miles. So, someone could be living, you know, close to Burlington which is still Guilford County. That is thirty, forty minutes from here. So, transportation and then gas prices. Those types of things. So parental involvement really becomes an issue for us. Another issue we tend to see that in high school is a lot of our students whether they’re here with their families or whether they’re here alone without parents, the financial situation. So, there’s a financial burden among the families that are here. If they’re here living with the friends of the family they have to be able to provide financial support with whoever they’re living with. So, one of the things that we see with our students, especially with our high school students, they tend to have more or higher dropout rates because they want to drop out and they want to go and work. Especially that becomes even higher when you have students who are sixteen, seventeen years of age who are coming with an interrupted education and now you’re seventeen years of age you place them in ninth grade and they need four more years of schooling to graduate so then you have those two options. Four years of school and, yeah, I can work but I can’t work full time. I’m seventeen years of age and I’m an able body and I can go out and work and provide financial support for whoever I’m living with. So, from time to time, we do have to compete with that and it’s hard to compete with that when you’re having to compete with financial freedom and being able to support, you know, living here, paying the rent, car insurance. Those types of things. Versus staying in school. So that becomes a really, you know, a big challenge for us. Sometimes you work out with employers out in a community to help employ our students after school hours. You know, we have a few students that we employed here nearby that the school bus actually takes them to their, to the McDonalds that they work. So just looking at different obstacles that they’re faced with. Trying to come over with different ways for them to overcome those obstacles. You know, of course, insurance. You know, immunization. All students have to have immunization so, you know, if you’re coming in as a refugee, refugee resettlement groups, they will provide you with that service for three months. After three months, you know, you’ve got to find your own sources of insurance, sources of income. Those types of things. So, children having to go out and get immunizations and go see doctors and those types of things, they may not have the insurance. So, our social worker really works you know, with the community, with the health department and different clinics to be able to provide those supports for our parents. That’s the clinic and those are the days and the hours that you can go to see them. So, those are just some of the few of the barriers, the challenges we face.
HM: Okay, yeah. So, let’s say a student arrives in Guilford County, I want to understand the path from arriving here and arriving at your school. So, are you involved with doing outreach? How do students hear about Newcomers and come here?
AZ: Sure. That’s great. I think that all of Guilford County schools are aware of the Newcomers program. So, they know that, and we are third--. On paper we’re third through twelfth but we don’t have any twelfth graders because we like for them to graduate from their home schools. So, we really have third to eleventh graders here. So, our schools do a really good job when you have a new family coming in as they are intaking or enrolling them in, you know, I think right away they sense there’s some sort of a language barrier and this is the first time that they’ve been in the United States. They’ll pick up the phone and they’ll reach out to us. They’ll say, I’ve got a family from Venezuela and a family from Pakistan. They just got here. They’re in third grade. K through two they have to go to their own schools. Anyone that’s third grader or higher they have the option of coming to Newcomers. We are a school of choice. So,when parents come to us, we tell them about all of the things and all of the services that we offer to them. But, we are a school of choice. It is not mandated that parents come to Newcomers or their children enroll at Newcomers. We just give them the information about the services that we will provide for them and how long they’ll be here and those types of things. And at the end of the day it’s the decision of the parents for them to decide whether they want to enroll their children here in Newcomers or enroll them in their home schools. Sometimes, some of the factors that go into that decision making is we are centrally located in the district in Guilford County. So, we do have a shuttle system. But Guilford County school transportation and sometimes, some of our earliest students will be picked up around six, six fifteen in the morning to go to a hub to get on another bus to get here. Sometimes parents say, no, I live right across from the elementary school. My children can go. That is literally walking distance. So, walking distance versus an hour and a half on the bus, I want to keep my child here and I don’t want to go to Newcomers. You also have sometimes multiple siblings. Say you have a kid, two child that is not eligible to come to Newcomers so sometimes the parents or the guardians they don’t want to split the families up. So, they say, you know what, I have a first grader who’s going to go to this school. I don’t want to send my fourth grader to Newcomers. I want to keep them together. So, sometimes they don’t come to Newcomers and send them to their own schools.
HM: Okay.
AZ: Yeah.
HM: Okay. So, I know that schools often play really important roles in communities, in terms of disseminating information and being a safe place for students, so what role does Newcomers play in the community networks and support for the families in this area?
AZ: Sure. So, our PTA is actually a local church. So, we ,you know, we look at the demographics of our students. We have, you know, we have students from all over the world. So, we reach out to our community because one of the things that we realize is we can wrap around our students here at school but until the whole community wraps around them, it really doesn’t work because we protect them. We do all of those things for our students. But, when they go out, you know, they’re faced with different obstacles. So, we reach out to our religious organizations in the area. We reach out to our synagogues. We reach out to our mosques. We reach out to our churches. We reach out to those--. We reach out to our Buddhist temples that are here in Greensboro. We make sure that we bring them in. We even contact them when parents are having issues with some of those things because we know that those clerics or ministers or preachers are looked at as leaders in their community. To be able to bring them in and mentor some of our students. You know, we look at, you know, things out in the community in terms of insurance. You know, in terms of food stamps. You know, different supports that if we’re not able to provide for them help our parents, you know, set them up with those supports to be able to help them so we can support ourchildren. We try to bring the community in, you know. We bring attorneys in. We bring in folks. We have landlords that work with our refugee students and our parents because sometimes they may not have the documentation to be able to do a lease. So, we have some landlords that work with our students. We have that information. So, we are doing it in an enrollment. We’re able to see what the needs are of the parents and unless they’re coming with a resettlement group we can help them with some of the supports that are out in the community. So, really try to wrap the whole community around our students because it really does take a village to do the work.
HM: Yeah. That’s great. And, what hopes do you have for the future of your school? How do you hope to continue to improve what you’re doing at Newcomers?
AZ: Yeah. So, I hope to continue to exist. You know, unfortunately, funding is always the issue in education. But we have a lot of support from our superintendents, school board members. You know, teachers come in and been around for eleven, twelve years now. So, we want to continue to grow. Our numbers continue to grow every year and you know, we have a small building so we would like to see if some point, if the funding is there, to continue to expand because sometimes that decision, you know, additional enrollment becomes an issue of size. And, an issue of size of the building. You know, we have small classes, so you can only fit so many children that’s going to have a conducive learning environment. So, in a small classroom that is built for twenty students, you have thirty students just because of the size of the classroom. That’s something that’s going to be conducive in a learning environment in the classroom. So, we’re hoping to continue to grow. We’re hoping to continue to create that awareness for a population of students. We have former students who are doctors, who are educators, who are engineers, who are lawyers. You know, our children go on to do wonderful things. And just continuing to work against that stereotype that, you know, our children are limited to the opportunities that they have because the sky is the limit for them. The only difference is, and I find myself using myself as an example all the time. Sometimes, children are out working with a twelve year gap. I was twelve years of age when I came to this country. You are twelve years behind compared to your peers. That just means you have to work twice or twelve times as hard to catch up to your peers so you can compete in this marketplace for jobs and different opportunities for yourself. We have to be able to, you know, look at our children and provide them opportunities to speed up that process so they can have access to the opportunities that non-ESL peers have out in this area. So, just hopefully, you know, continue to do that.
HM: That’s great. Yeah. So, I know I mentioned some about the research that I’m doing and how I’m making recommendations to New Hanover County Schools in August. So, as someone with a lot of knowledge about this kind of thing, what do you feel like is at the core of success for immigrant and refugee students? If there are some recommendations that you feel I--. Something I need to get across to the board to best support these students? Is there something that comes to mind?
AZ: I’ll tell you. I would never have been able to do this without the folks, you know prior to me, would have never been able to do the work that we’re able to do without the folks who are in the [inaudible] and that’s the teachers. Anyone that is trying to start something like this, you got to have the right people to do the job every day. So, we have that. That has evolved. So, I think you know, you’re definitely have to look at people, you know, like yourself who are coming from ESL backgrounds, who have the passion to educate children. I think one of the things that we got to make sure is that we’re not here to save children. You know? We’re here to educate children. Sometimes you see people who want to work with our population of students because it is a feel-good kind of a job. And that’s great. We want people to feel good about what they do. But at the end of the day, we have to educate our children because education is going to provide opportunities for them in the future. So, I think that is the key there is to make sure that you design the programs sometimes, it can start out small scale. One campus of a school. But you got to have the right people who are leading it. You have to have the folks who are going to be passionate about doing the work and that’s work that there’s no boundary. You know, we have parents that reach out to me at twelve thirty or one o’clock in the morning that need help with something. You have to be able to. So, if someone that is eight to four persons, after four o’clock they don’t want to deal with this, unfortunately that doesn’t work. And folks prior to me who opened this program were and still are those kinds of people. Your heart has to be with the students and you have to be able to create those opportunities and you have to be able to fight the stereotypes that you’re going to be faced with all the time to make sure you continue to fight and continue to advocate for the students. Yeah. But people, your personnel is going to be the key. If you have the right people the program will run itself. And I’ve been very fortunate to have that.
HM: That’s great. So, I know this is school is pretty unique to North Carolina. Are there programs like this around the country?
AZ: There are. We are, we had someone that came from the department of education last year. And they actually verified that we are the only one of a kind program in the United States that has elementary, middle, and high in the same building.
HM: Oh, wow.
AZ: There are lots of other programs. I think when we were trying to open this program back in 2007 there were models out in New York and out in California who had been doing this a lot longer than we have. I actually had the pleasure of visiting a school down in Houston, which has a lot more of an immigrant population than we do. And they have separate elementary, they have separate middle and separate high schools. Of course, enrollment is much larger than ours. Their high school had almost 2,000 students there.
HM: Wow.
AZ: But they also, one of the neat things that they did was they had a double shift high school. The hours of the school were 9AM to 12AM. So, if you had students that wanted to work in the evening they could attend during the day. If you had someone that wanted to work during the day, they could attend in the evening. So, there are a lot of different programs that are out there and folks that recognize there has to be something different for our ESL students because coming here, placing them in mainstream schools, that just doesn’t work. Unfortunately, that does not work. Children are already behind and they’ll feel even more behind. And when you have some of the things that we listed here about bullying, and them not knowing the language, children get picked on. The social and emotional piece. They continue to fall further and further behind that eventually they drop out. So, yes. I mean there are a lot of other schools that are in the area. Not sure of North Carolina but there are a lot of states that have these models already in place and they’re doing a great job.
HM: That’s great.
AZ: Yeah.
HM: Well, that’s all I have for you. Thank you so much for having us today.
AZ: Absolutely, my pleasure. And you guys have the information--. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Educadores
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Temas
Integración y segregación; Lenguaje y Comunicación; Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Comunidades receptoras; Educación
Es: Transcripción
Hannah Marable: Hi. I’m Hannah Marable and I’m here with Mr. Abu Zaeem on June 27, 2019 at 10:36AM at Doris Henderson Newcomers School in Greensboro, North Carolina. I’m here with him to learn more about his role as the principal of the Newcomers School and understand how his school supports immigrant and refugee students. Mr. Zaeem, how are you doing?
Abu Zaeem: Doing well. How are you?
HM: Good. I’m good. Do I have your consent to record this interview?
AZ: You do.
HM: Okay. Will you tell us a little bit about how and why this school got started and how you got involved?
AZ: Sure. Sure. So, the school came about… The first year that it opened was back in 2007, 2008. A little over ten years ago. There was a need in Guilford County because there were so many ESL students that were coming in that were newcomer students. So, there was a need for us to open a newcomer’s school. You had students that were coming in that had varying abilities from all over the spectrum in terms of formal education. Some had lots of formal education, some didn’t have any formal education at all. So, it made it really challenging for schools to be able to take those students without a newcomer’s program and to be able to acclimate them to schools. Some of them had been in schools for the first time in their life. So, we felt like we needed to open something like a newcomer’s program here in Guildford County so that way we can bring students in for at least a year and get them back into the U.S. school system, get them acclimated to the language. You know, in terms of how the U.S. school system works. And then after a year, transition them on to their home schools which is where they currently live. We serve students from all over the district. So, they come to us. They’re bussed to us from all over the district. The way I’ve gotten involved, this is my third year here as a principal. I am a former ESL student. I was born and raised in Pakistan. My family migrated to the United States back in the early nineties. So, as they were looking for someone to lead the school, I guess they wanted someone to be able to relate to their families, relate to the experience of coming into the country. And I was placed here back in--. Two years ago. So, this will be my third year as the principal of Doris Henderson Newcomer’s School.
HM: Okay great. And who is Doris Henderson?
AZ: Doris Henderson is the previous principal. So, this was a--. It catered two buildings. This was a primary school and she was a longtime principal in this building off the primary school. And, you know, due to her service and her dedication to this profession, you know when they came up with the program, they named it after her. Doris Henderson. She is still very much active in our community. She comes to all of our school functions. She comes and walks the hallways and she is just another stakeholder for us. It’s great for us to have her around.
HM: Okay. Awesome. Okay. I would love to talk about some of the programs that you have here at your school. So, what are some of the best ways that you feel like schools and teachers can support newcomer students and what do those programs look like here?
AZ: Yeah. So, I think, you know, of course, we in terms of our support we try to make sure that--. A little bit about our school. We have students that are refugees and students who are immigrants. So that dynamic has changed a little. Back when it first started you had majority of the students were refugees and we had a few immigrants. Well, over time it’s been almost close to fifty fifty. And now you have more immigrants than you have refugees. When you think about students and even immigrants, you know, they are coming in for different reasons. They’re coming with a lot of trauma. You know, they’re coming from--. A lot of our students are coming from African countries. They’re coming from war-torn countries. A lot of them are coming in without their parents. Those types of things. So, one of the things when I first got here, we didn’t have you know, some of the arts that we were offering. When you have students who are coming in, who are going to struggle with the language, they’re going to struggle with the reading and the writing, you got to make sure that you got arts that you can offer to them. Things like music, things like actual art, dance programs. Those types of things. So that way that’s just another way for them to express themselves because unfortunately they’re not able to do so in the English language. So, that’s a way that we provide them support. We also have, because of the trauma and some of the baggage that they come to us with, we have partnered with the local university UNCG. And they provide psychological services for our students. So, we work with the staff to see if some of the signs that they may observe from the students. Or, you know, some of the social histories that students may be coming to us with and we out of our title one funds, have created a partnership with them and they provide a limited number of support, amount of support, in terms of families. Not just the students but also their families. And it is off campus. So, in terms of the [inaudible], you know you guys here in education, the social and emotional learning. So, that is a big piece. You know, unless they feel socially and emotionally comfortable and safe to be in this environment, you know, regardless of what you do with them academically, they’re not going to be able to learn. So that’s something that is really important. Academically, you know, we bring them in and we have tier classes. So, depending on their level of formal education in the past, we place them according to their level. So, we assist their reading levels. We place them in classes based on the formal education they’re coming to us with. We’ve had children that have come to us that have had no formal education at all. And we have a group within ESL group that we place them in that classroom which is more of a self-contained classroom. And they stay with that classroom and those students all throughout the day because the support of those students are going to need are going to be a little bit more than what others are going to need. In terms of supports in the community, we have a wonderful school social worker. She looks out into the community to make sure that, in terms of insurance, in terms of housing, some of those things, that a lot of our refugees and immigrants’ parents are going to need, they’re able to look for those communities and forced to provide help. For them, we do parent events twice a year and we invite folks like immigration attorneys, we invite folks from outside in the community come and talk to our parents because we realize the need to be able to equip our parents with the tools that they need to support our children. We can do everything with them but parents are the ones who are going to need to be empowered to continue to support our children. So, we do a lot with them. We also do a Saturday literacy program where we bring parents in and we do Saturday ESL classes for them. We’re also looking to start a next year, on Saturdays, a business entrepreneurial classroom. One of the things we’re finding is just because, you know, they don’t know the language, they’re coming to us with a lot of skills that they’ve learned in their countries which can very much be applicable here in this country. So, they just need to be able to pick up those entrepreneurial skills and know the system and how to become an entrepreneur you know, down the line. Those are just some of the supports that we provide.
HM: Yeah. That’s awesome. And I know that Guilford County has the Parents Success Academy.
AZ: Parent Academy.
HM: The Parent Academy. How does the Parent Academy work with your school?
AZ: Yeah. So, the Parent Academy holds a lot of the sessions out in the district. You know, one of the ones that they just held lately was on opioids. And for the parents to be aware of some of the signs and things that they may see out in the community or how they can make sure that children are, you know, are not exposed to those things. So, the things that they’re offered in the district, we just make the parents aware of them. And a lot of those are off campus so, central locations within the district. We just make the parents aware of those sessions to make sure that they attend them. But that becomes an obstacle for our parents because all the events that we do here are, we have interpreters. So, you have a Spanish interpreter, you have an Arabic interpreter, French, Swahili, and Vietnamese interpreters. So, when they come to our events, you have someone there that is translating in their language. Unfortunately, when you have district events that are on such a large scale, and you have so many different languages that are spoken they don’t always have an interpreter for them. So, one of the things that we find is, our events here are more attended than the ones that are offered by the district because there isn’t someone there to be able to offer them their translation service.
HM: I see. So, you’ve talked about this a little bit but I want to talk about it a little more.
AZ: Sure.
HM: So, I’m interested in how you create safe spaces for your students. How you make your students feel safe here at the school. So, maybe that safety from threat of deportation or a place where students can feel safe to speak their native language and be themselves. So, how do you do that here at your school?
AZ: Sure. Sure. So, I think the first thing I’ll start with the deportation and the ICE. That is a really hot topic. We have, unfortunately I know all of us have heard about the different tactics that they’ve used and you know, them being in neighborhoods and near schools. So, a lot of our parents they think that because children are going to schools as they’re leaving schools, you know, the officials are going to be waiting somewhere they know children are going to be there and they’re going to you know, talk with the students or whatnot. So, the first thing is we actually this year communicated multiple times to parents about this being a safe place. You know, when they’re here, no one is asking them about their immigration status. We’re not, we have no concern of that at all. We are concerned for them and we understand you know, that they are worried about things like that but we try to assure them that this is a safe place from the time that they get on the bus at the bus stop, to arriving to school, being in school, to arriving back at home. That it’s a safe place we can assure them that. And the district has assured us that we will assure the parents that nothing is going to impact them at all. Other than that, what happens out in the community unfortunately the school doesn’t have control over that. But, we try, you know, communicate with them that this is a safe zone. As far as the, I think the second question was, what was-- ?
HM: How do they feel safe to be themselves, to speak their language--.
AZ: Right. Right. One of the things that we have as new staff is coming in, and we do staff development every year. You have to find that balance in a school like ours and anywhere else when students leave. You have to find that balance between students being able to speak their language and students being asked to speak English. Of course, we want them to speak English because that is an area of literacy, the speaking piece that we want to make sure, for the language acquisition piece of it, we want to make sure that they are continuing to practice the written and the spoken English. But at the same time, we want to honor their heritages. We want to honor their backgrounds and what they’re bringing to us. Instead of looking at it as a negative thing, we try to use it as something positive. So, you know, let’s say the two of you guys and both of you guys speak French. You had previous English instructions you may not have. So, one of the things that we try to use that to our advantage is we may pair students together with common languages and we say, well you understand English and you can explain this to someone who doesn’t understand English. So, tap into that as something positive instead of you don’t know English as that being a negative thing. But then there are times we say okay we do need you to respond back to us in English. So, to be able to provide them with that support, we do one of the things that we started working on a couple of years back, we do language sentence trainings. So, we try to provide them with language support that they need in order to be able to respond to the questions that teachers are asking. So, we provide them these sentence frames which are nothing more than just fill in the blanks. You’re giving them some of the language and they’re filling the blanks that way--. And one of the things that we see common all the time is ESL children they will give you one- or two-word answers. Well, so you take those one or two words and plug it into the language frame and now you’ve given us a full complete sentence and then that way children feel, you know, pretty strong about being able to, being able to take part in the conversation discussion in classrooms which helps them continue to motivate them to continue to learn the English. So, you have to be able to find that balance between using their language and at the same time using English. So, we try to make sure to tell the teachers that they are not to tell the students you cannot use your language. There are times that it is okay to use it because you want to make sure they comprehend what they’re reading and we’ll know when you read something you can understand it but being able to say it back in your own words, that’s tough especially when you’re learning the language of English. So, to check their comprehension even if they can show you in their language that they can understand, at the end of the day they comprehend it. Reading and understanding and the speaking of the English language is going to come over time. And they’re only here in their first year, sowe know that sometimes that is not going to happen while they’re here. So, just trying to be understanding of that process of language acquisition is extremely important.
HM: Okay. And you’d mention that you have students who have experienced trauma, so let’s say a student comes in and is feeling the effects of this trauma.
AZ: Sure.
HM: How do you handle that situation?
AZ: Yeah, so that’s a great question. We have an enrollment specialist so the wonderful thing about our program is although we haven’t had a lot of turnover, she’s been here from day one. So, she has seen every type of student that is coming in with a lot of different trauma. So, one of the things that we do is during the enrollment time, when they first come in, whether with a resettlement group or whether they come with a community advocate or whoever, we do an interview with them. So, as they’re coming in and she knows the types of questions to ask to be able to probe some of the information from them. So, you know, someone’s coming in, you know, okay, well, who are you? You know, if you’re not the mom or the dad, okay well what kind of affidavits and things that you can provide and then if you’re traveling without a parent, then of course that’s going to have some sort of trauma attached to it. What happened to them? So, we do an interview with them to be able to get some basic information and just based on that information, we get that information over to our school social worker. And you know, she goes out and does social history and meets with the parents or meets with the guardians or whoever came to enroll them to collect more information. And then our school social worker is our liaison between the school and UNCG psychological service to see, maybe, there is something that we may be able to, you know, do for them. Definitely not something right away. We want to get the child here. We want to work with them a little bit.
HM: Yeah.
AZ: Just to see all those sometimes, as adults we feel like they’re coming, they’re maybe coming with trauma. Sometimes they may surprise us and they may feel like, hey, we don’t need the services. We are okay with that. And, you know, you don’t want to jump into the services too quickly because you don’t want to bring back some memories that they already left behind. So, our thing is wait to get them in and you work with them for a couple of weeks, and then if you see signs from the child, you see signs from the adults of the family, and then you see the social interview that we’ve done with them, put everything together and then you do the recommendation for the psychological services.
HM: Okay. Great. And, I know that students are allowed to stay here for up to a year. So, how or who decides or how do you decide when a student is ready to leave? Do most of your students stay the entire year? Do they stay less than a year? What do you see?
AZ: Sure. That’s a great question. So, according to the office of civil rights, we don’t, it’s not just us that say we’re just going to keep them only for a year. According to the office of civil rights, we are segregating the students according to their demographics. These are refugees and immigrants. So, we have to be very careful with that. So, from their directive, they say, you can keep them for a year and when I first got here, I wanted to research this because I wanted to make sure I understood it. And in their [inaudible] they actually stated there that they can stay for a year unless the school feels like a child can benefit from being here for longer than a year. So, for us a year is two semesters. So, sometimes you have students who stay for longer than a semester. Sometimes you have say, some that stay less than a semester. And I’ll give you examples of who stays longer and who stays less. So, let’s say you have a child that comes in let’s say in January. So, from January to May or to June is one semester. And the next year from August to December or January is another semester. Well, let’s say a child comes in and the child you know, everything in the United States educational system is done by age. So, until you get to high school then everything is done by credits, right? So, let’s say you’re coming in and you are eight or nine years of age and you are of the age to be in third/fourth grade. You’ve had no formal education at all. So, we’re starting from--. We have had to do that. We’re starting from scratch. This is how you hold a pencil. This is what letter ‘A’ looks like. This is what letter ‘B’ looks like. For some of those students who are coming with no formal education or what we call, an interruptive formal education, used to be SIFE students who interrupt formal education, now it’s SLIFE who are just students with limited interruptive formal education and interruption is designed depending on which, you know, what do you pick up and read about it. It’s anywhere from two to three years of a gap that it talks about. So, for students coming to us that we consider SIFE, those are the students that sometimes we do exercise their option of keeping them for longer than a year. What we see from some of the students as well is you keep them for three semesters longer. Sometimes what we recognize or what we pinpoint is, sometimes, they go through our instructional, our IST, or sometimes they go through our EC program because some of those students may also have some sort of a learning disability. You put interventions in place through IST team and then you look to see if those interventions work to rule out any some sort of a disability that they may be, you know, they may be experiencing that may really prevent them from learning the content. You have to be careful with that because they’re in their first year in the United States so it is going to be difficult for some to show mastery of growth right away. So, sometimes, we give them six months to a year just to have enough exposure to the English language. So, sometimes those are the kids that we keep them for three semesters because the process really takes a year and a half for them to have some time under their belt to show some understanding of something that they’re learning for us to be able to assess. Whether they’ve learned their materials or if they haven’t with interventions. Additional interventions have them learn them and if they if they haven’t, then maybe for them exceptional students’ services todetermine to do additional testing to see if there is some sort of a disability. So, those are the students that we may end up keeping them for longer than a year. On the opposite, we may have some students that we may keep them for less than a year. For less than two semesters. So, one of the trends that has changed over the last couple of years is, a lot of our--. More of our students are coming from our Spanish speaking countries where you have formal education. You know, you have something like the hurricane in Puerto Rico and you see an influx of families that are settling here. Puerto Rico has a real established educational system and a lot of your students are coming to you with, you know, being exposed to the English language. So, sometimes, they, parents bring their children here and they enroll them here for one semester just to get an idea of what the, U.S. system, educational system is like. You know, a lot of them are older so they may be looking to see how many credits do you need to graduate. Those types of things. But then after a semester, they may be ready to go on to their, you know, home schools and be ready to take additional classes. You also have, we don’t offer the full spectrum of courses because you know, just the number of students and the faculty that we have. So, I’ll give you an example. You require four Englishes for a student to graduate from our school. We only offer English one and English two because very rarely do we get students who have courses that are equivalent to an English two or English one here in the United States. When the other student who’s maxed those out and they neede an English three, they can’t take that here so we look at an early transition for them to go to another school where they can take those classes. So, it just depends. A lot of your older students depends on their education. Their previous education. The number of credits they’re coming to us with and what we are able to offer them. Sometimes, if we’re not able to offer them with any more credits, there’s no need for them to stay here because then that’s just wasting their time because they could be taking additional credits at their home schools. So sometimes we’re going to transition them early.
HM: Okay. And do students have a say in when they are ready to leave? Or, is that a decision that--.
AZ: Well, normally it is a decision that we make. If they’ve been here for a year and unless they are part of our IST or going through the EC process, you know, after a year, then probably eighty-five to ninety percent of our students will leave after a year. Sometimes, we do get the input of the teachers. Sometimes we’re on the fence because I recognize that I’m in an office. I’m not teaching them every day. And teachers are the ones who hold the expertise in teaching the children every day. So, sometimes we do have teachers that come to say, hey I think this kid really can benefit from being here another semester. Then we ask them, let’s take a look at their data. Because, we have to be mindful because these are opportunities that we are providing for them and we have to have equitable practices to be able to provide these opportunities for children because at the end of the day, if we offer this opportunity just about all of our parents will want our children to be here for more than a year. So, when we are making the decision of sending someone after a year versus keeping them here for an extra semester, you have to be able to justify. So, we definitely go back to the teachers and ask them for the data to do a comparison between someone that we are transitioning early or someone we are transitioning after a year and this child and if the data shows that this child hasn’t learned at the same pace that we expect them to then we can bring them back. So, they do have some say. And then sometimes parents. We also transition in the middle of the year. And that’s a tough transition for elementary and middle school students. Transitions. So, we just did a transition in June and students will start at their new schools in August. That is a natural transition because everyone is starting out at a new school. You may have people who have moved. So, when they start at a new school in August, you know, it is okay because everyone’s going to make new friends. People are going to be in different classes. So, it is okay. But the transition that we do in January, that is a tougher transition for elementary and middle because as someone who struggles with English in a new country, and now, I am in a new school in January where everyone has made friends. Now I am, you know, a stranger in the classroom and it’s going to be hard for me to make friends. Just for that sometimes, students will struggle with their social and emotional ways. We consider maybe keeping them back for another semester and transitioning them in August when it’s a little more natural or time for them to start a new school.
HM: Great. And I know that in the PowerPoint you gave us, there are some obstacles to educating these students listed that I’m excited to look over. But would you talk about some of the challenges about the work that you do here concerning these students?
AZ: Yeah. Absolutely. I think language is always the first one. I mean, I think even when they’re here, parents and teachers communicating with the parents, you have to have an interpreter there all the time talking with the students. Sometimes they understand, they don’t. And rightfully so because they’re just learning the language. Parental involvement is something that we also struggle with because as you may imagine, you know settling into a new country and if it’s not under favorable conditions, parents are working. They’re busy. You know working different times of the day and then getting them here for parent conferences or for parent events. Sometimes that is challenging. Transportation is also challenging because if you guys know a little bit about Guilford County, from one side of Guilford County to the other is quite a few miles. So, someone could be living, you know, close to Burlington which is still Guilford County. That is thirty, forty minutes from here. So, transportation and then gas prices. Those types of things. So parental involvement really becomes an issue for us. Another issue we tend to see that in high school is a lot of our students whether they’re here with their families or whether they’re here alone without parents, the financial situation. So, there’s a financial burden among the families that are here. If they’re here living with the friends of the family they have to be able to provide financial support with whoever they’re living with. So, one of the things that we see with our students, especially with our high school students, they tend to have more or higher dropout rates because they want to drop out and they want to go and work. Especially that becomes even higher when you have students who are sixteen, seventeen years of age who are coming with an interrupted education and now you’re seventeen years of age you place them in ninth grade and they need four more years of schooling to graduate so then you have those two options. Four years of school and, yeah, I can work but I can’t work full time. I’m seventeen years of age and I’m an able body and I can go out and work and provide financial support for whoever I’m living with. So, from time to time, we do have to compete with that and it’s hard to compete with that when you’re having to compete with financial freedom and being able to support, you know, living here, paying the rent, car insurance. Those types of things. Versus staying in school. So that becomes a really, you know, a big challenge for us. Sometimes you work out with employers out in a community to help employ our students after school hours. You know, we have a few students that we employed here nearby that the school bus actually takes them to their, to the McDonalds that they work. So just looking at different obstacles that they’re faced with. Trying to come over with different ways for them to overcome those obstacles. You know, of course, insurance. You know, immunization. All students have to have immunization so, you know, if you’re coming in as a refugee, refugee resettlement groups, they will provide you with that service for three months. After three months, you know, you’ve got to find your own sources of insurance, sources of income. Those types of things. So, children having to go out and get immunizations and go see doctors and those types of things, they may not have the insurance. So, our social worker really works you know, with the community, with the health department and different clinics to be able to provide those supports for our parents. That’s the clinic and those are the days and the hours that you can go to see them. So, those are just some of the few of the barriers, the challenges we face.
HM: Okay, yeah. So, let’s say a student arrives in Guilford County, I want to understand the path from arriving here and arriving at your school. So, are you involved with doing outreach? How do students hear about Newcomers and come here?
AZ: Sure. That’s great. I think that all of Guilford County schools are aware of the Newcomers program. So, they know that, and we are third--. On paper we’re third through twelfth but we don’t have any twelfth graders because we like for them to graduate from their home schools. So, we really have third to eleventh graders here. So, our schools do a really good job when you have a new family coming in as they are intaking or enrolling them in, you know, I think right away they sense there’s some sort of a language barrier and this is the first time that they’ve been in the United States. They’ll pick up the phone and they’ll reach out to us. They’ll say, I’ve got a family from Venezuela and a family from Pakistan. They just got here. They’re in third grade. K through two they have to go to their own schools. Anyone that’s third grader or higher they have the option of coming to Newcomers. We are a school of choice. So,when parents come to us, we tell them about all of the things and all of the services that we offer to them. But, we are a school of choice. It is not mandated that parents come to Newcomers or their children enroll at Newcomers. We just give them the information about the services that we will provide for them and how long they’ll be here and those types of things. And at the end of the day it’s the decision of the parents for them to decide whether they want to enroll their children here in Newcomers or enroll them in their home schools. Sometimes, some of the factors that go into that decision making is we are centrally located in the district in Guilford County. So, we do have a shuttle system. But Guilford County school transportation and sometimes, some of our earliest students will be picked up around six, six fifteen in the morning to go to a hub to get on another bus to get here. Sometimes parents say, no, I live right across from the elementary school. My children can go. That is literally walking distance. So, walking distance versus an hour and a half on the bus, I want to keep my child here and I don’t want to go to Newcomers. You also have sometimes multiple siblings. Say you have a kid, two child that is not eligible to come to Newcomers so sometimes the parents or the guardians they don’t want to split the families up. So, they say, you know what, I have a first grader who’s going to go to this school. I don’t want to send my fourth grader to Newcomers. I want to keep them together. So, sometimes they don’t come to Newcomers and send them to their own schools.
HM: Okay.
AZ: Yeah.
HM: Okay. So, I know that schools often play really important roles in communities, in terms of disseminating information and being a safe place for students, so what role does Newcomers play in the community networks and support for the families in this area?
AZ: Sure. So, our PTA is actually a local church. So, we ,you know, we look at the demographics of our students. We have, you know, we have students from all over the world. So, we reach out to our community because one of the things that we realize is we can wrap around our students here at school but until the whole community wraps around them, it really doesn’t work because we protect them. We do all of those things for our students. But, when they go out, you know, they’re faced with different obstacles. So, we reach out to our religious organizations in the area. We reach out to our synagogues. We reach out to our mosques. We reach out to our churches. We reach out to those--. We reach out to our Buddhist temples that are here in Greensboro. We make sure that we bring them in. We even contact them when parents are having issues with some of those things because we know that those clerics or ministers or preachers are looked at as leaders in their community. To be able to bring them in and mentor some of our students. You know, we look at, you know, things out in the community in terms of insurance. You know, in terms of food stamps. You know, different supports that if we’re not able to provide for them help our parents, you know, set them up with those supports to be able to help them so we can support ourchildren. We try to bring the community in, you know. We bring attorneys in. We bring in folks. We have landlords that work with our refugee students and our parents because sometimes they may not have the documentation to be able to do a lease. So, we have some landlords that work with our students. We have that information. So, we are doing it in an enrollment. We’re able to see what the needs are of the parents and unless they’re coming with a resettlement group we can help them with some of the supports that are out in the community. So, really try to wrap the whole community around our students because it really does take a village to do the work.
HM: Yeah. That’s great. And, what hopes do you have for the future of your school? How do you hope to continue to improve what you’re doing at Newcomers?
AZ: Yeah. So, I hope to continue to exist. You know, unfortunately, funding is always the issue in education. But we have a lot of support from our superintendents, school board members. You know, teachers come in and been around for eleven, twelve years now. So, we want to continue to grow. Our numbers continue to grow every year and you know, we have a small building so we would like to see if some point, if the funding is there, to continue to expand because sometimes that decision, you know, additional enrollment becomes an issue of size. And, an issue of size of the building. You know, we have small classes, so you can only fit so many children that’s going to have a conducive learning environment. So, in a small classroom that is built for twenty students, you have thirty students just because of the size of the classroom. That’s something that’s going to be conducive in a learning environment in the classroom. So, we’re hoping to continue to grow. We’re hoping to continue to create that awareness for a population of students. We have former students who are doctors, who are educators, who are engineers, who are lawyers. You know, our children go on to do wonderful things. And just continuing to work against that stereotype that, you know, our children are limited to the opportunities that they have because the sky is the limit for them. The only difference is, and I find myself using myself as an example all the time. Sometimes, children are out working with a twelve year gap. I was twelve years of age when I came to this country. You are twelve years behind compared to your peers. That just means you have to work twice or twelve times as hard to catch up to your peers so you can compete in this marketplace for jobs and different opportunities for yourself. We have to be able to, you know, look at our children and provide them opportunities to speed up that process so they can have access to the opportunities that non-ESL peers have out in this area. So, just hopefully, you know, continue to do that.
HM: That’s great. Yeah. So, I know I mentioned some about the research that I’m doing and how I’m making recommendations to New Hanover County Schools in August. So, as someone with a lot of knowledge about this kind of thing, what do you feel like is at the core of success for immigrant and refugee students? If there are some recommendations that you feel I--. Something I need to get across to the board to best support these students? Is there something that comes to mind?
AZ: I’ll tell you. I would never have been able to do this without the folks, you know prior to me, would have never been able to do the work that we’re able to do without the folks who are in the [inaudible] and that’s the teachers. Anyone that is trying to start something like this, you got to have the right people to do the job every day. So, we have that. That has evolved. So, I think you know, you’re definitely have to look at people, you know, like yourself who are coming from ESL backgrounds, who have the passion to educate children. I think one of the things that we got to make sure is that we’re not here to save children. You know? We’re here to educate children. Sometimes you see people who want to work with our population of students because it is a feel-good kind of a job. And that’s great. We want people to feel good about what they do. But at the end of the day, we have to educate our children because education is going to provide opportunities for them in the future. So, I think that is the key there is to make sure that you design the programs sometimes, it can start out small scale. One campus of a school. But you got to have the right people who are leading it. You have to have the folks who are going to be passionate about doing the work and that’s work that there’s no boundary. You know, we have parents that reach out to me at twelve thirty or one o’clock in the morning that need help with something. You have to be able to. So, if someone that is eight to four persons, after four o’clock they don’t want to deal with this, unfortunately that doesn’t work. And folks prior to me who opened this program were and still are those kinds of people. Your heart has to be with the students and you have to be able to create those opportunities and you have to be able to fight the stereotypes that you’re going to be faced with all the time to make sure you continue to fight and continue to advocate for the students. Yeah. But people, your personnel is going to be the key. If you have the right people the program will run itself. And I’ve been very fortunate to have that.
HM: That’s great. So, I know this is school is pretty unique to North Carolina. Are there programs like this around the country?
AZ: There are. We are, we had someone that came from the department of education last year. And they actually verified that we are the only one of a kind program in the United States that has elementary, middle, and high in the same building.
HM: Oh, wow.
AZ: There are lots of other programs. I think when we were trying to open this program back in 2007 there were models out in New York and out in California who had been doing this a lot longer than we have. I actually had the pleasure of visiting a school down in Houston, which has a lot more of an immigrant population than we do. And they have separate elementary, they have separate middle and separate high schools. Of course, enrollment is much larger than ours. Their high school had almost 2,000 students there.
HM: Wow.
AZ: But they also, one of the neat things that they did was they had a double shift high school. The hours of the school were 9AM to 12AM. So, if you had students that wanted to work in the evening they could attend during the day. If you had someone that wanted to work during the day, they could attend in the evening. So, there are a lot of different programs that are out there and folks that recognize there has to be something different for our ESL students because coming here, placing them in mainstream schools, that just doesn’t work. Unfortunately, that does not work. Children are already behind and they’ll feel even more behind. And when you have some of the things that we listed here about bullying, and them not knowing the language, children get picked on. The social and emotional piece. They continue to fall further and further behind that eventually they drop out. So, yes. I mean there are a lot of other schools that are in the area. Not sure of North Carolina but there are a lot of states that have these models already in place and they’re doing a great job.
HM: That’s great.
AZ: Yeah.
HM: Well, that’s all I have for you. Thank you so much for having us today.
AZ: Absolutely, my pleasure. And you guys have the information--. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Es: Resumen
Abu Zaeem describe su posición como director de la Doris Henderson Escuela de “Newcomers” (recien llegados). Explica cómo la escuela atiende a estudiantes inmigrantes y refugiados en los grados tres a doce durante uno, dos o tres semestres, ayudándoles a familiarizarse con el inglés y el sistema escolar estadounidense antes de que se transfieran a sus escuelas locales. Habla de servicios y estrategias para ayudar a los estudiantes que están lidiando con un trauma al llegar a los Estados Unidos. Compartió varios de los desafíos de su trabajo, incluida la comunicación con los padres cuando existen barreras de idioma y tasas de abandono escolar entre los estudiantes mayores que desean trabajar. Enfatizó que la Escuela es una excelente opción para muchas familias, pero algunas eligen otras escuelas tradicionales debido a la ubicación, la edad de otros hermanos u otras razones. Compartió las limitaciones de una escuela pequeña para una población que está creciendo, y admitió que la financiación es un problema constante. Finalmente, enfatizó que el trabajo de la Escuela para recién llegados sería imposible sin sus maestros, quienes están comprometidos en educar y defender a los estudiantes y su bienestar todos los días.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Abu Zaeem, 27 junio 2019, R-0988, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0988 -- Zaeem, Abu.
Description
An account of the resource
Abu Zaeem describes his position as the principal of Doris Henderson Newcomers School in Greensboro, North Carolina. He explains how the school serves immigrant and refugee students in grades three through twelve for one, two, or three semesters by helping them acclimate to English and the American school system before they are transitioned to their home public schools. He discusses services and strategies to help students who are dealing with trauma upon arriving to the United States. He shares several of the challenges of his work, including communicating with parents when there are language barriers and dropout rates among older students who want to work. He emphasized that while the Newcomers School is a great option for many families, some choose traditional schools because of location, age of other siblings, or other reasons. He shared the limitations of a small school for a growing population of students, and admitted that funding is consistently an issue. Finally, he emphasized that the work of the Newcomers School would be impossible without its teachers, who are invested in educating and advocating for students and their well-being every day.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-06-27
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28597">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0988_Audio.mp3
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/37f86fce7e02d92272547550d4230bed.mp3
bf40829c24e86dbdac841a85df91cefa
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/aae9ef411e146c216054909467ac8f2e.pdf
0ce00d99bfeebad86e677d5690ac09c5
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0991
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2019-05-21
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Sánchez, Alba.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Community organizers
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1975
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Heredia -- Heredia -- Costa Rica
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Charlotte -- Mecklenburg County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-84.119766 9.998141),1975,1;POINT(-80.841141 35.223789),2001,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Carlton, Marisa.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Alba Sánchez is the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition in Charlotte, North Carolina. She is originally from Costa Rica from a small town called San Rafael in the province of Heredia. She emigrated to the United States when she was twenty-six years old. In this interview, Sánchez explains what San Rafael was like, referring to the landscape of the region and the size of the town. She discusses her childhood and what life was like for her and her family living in Costa Rica and mentions that all of her family members still reside there. Sánchez mentions attending the University Nacional of La Heredia, one of the top schools in her state. She describes what her journey of coming to the United States was like and the challenges she faced once she arrived. She tells me about her drive and passion to learn English and how that was a major motivational factor for her once she was in North Carolina. Sánchez later explains her reasons for moving to Charlotte, North Carolina, and how she became the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition. She shares that she first became involved with the Coalition as a community member and later as a volunteer. She describes the multitude of services that the Latin American Coalition offers, such as citizenship workshops, ESL classes, translation services, and other resources for the community. She also touches on the biggest challenges that she sees the Latino community struggles with the most in Charlotte. Sánchez closes the interview by telling me about her immigration case and stating her love for this United States and her community.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Alba Sánchez, 21 May 2019, R-0991, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28588
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Citizenship and immigration; Community and social services and programs; Migratory Experience; Receiving Communities; Social networks
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Hi. My name is Marisa Carlton and I’m here with Alba Sánchez and we’re going to interview her about her migration story. Hola Alba. How are you?
Alba Sánchez: Good. How are you Marisa?
MC: Good. Thank you for meeting with me. So, first of all, I want to ask, [00:00:19] where are you from originally and can you tell me a little bit about the area?
AS: Yes. I’m from Costa Rica. A city that is called Heredia. It’s a very-. It’s a rural area but very pretty with a lot of nature, rivers, rainforests. It’s a small town. We are about six hundred people. Maybe eight hundred. We know each other. A lot of these families are family members.
MC: And—.
AS: [coughs].
MC: Did you always live there?
AS: Yes. Yes. I lived there my twenty-six years. I went to school there. I went to high school there and also, I went to college. So, it is two, three hours to go to high school or college, but we were able to go yes.
MC: Where did you go to school?
AS: You mean college?
MC: Yeah.
AS: The Universidad Nacional. The National University in Heredia.
MC: Oh, wow.
AS: It’s one of the three national universities in Costa Rica.
MC: Do you still—
MC: Do you still have family there?
AS: Everyone.
MC: All your family?
AS: All. My mom. My dad. My brothers. Everyone is in Costa Rica. Yes.
MC: Wow. So, can you tell me a little about your childhood? What living there was like for you? Your favorite memories?
AS: It was a beautiful childhood. Again, it’s nature. I love nature. We were able to play all the time outside. You know, play, go to the rivers, with family members play soccer, going to school. It was a very, very healthy childhood. We didn’t have electronics. The first time I had a TV I was twenty years. [laughs]. The same thing for the telephone. We were very close to our families. So, really our friends were our cousins, our uncles, my mom, my dad, my grandfather. People that lived around us.
MC: Right.
AS: It was a safety community. Safe community.
MC: [00:02:41] When did you choose to migrate to the United States?
AS: The first time I decided to come to the United States was in 1998. And the reason I decided to come was because when I was a teenager, I had one of my best friends that she moved to North Carolina with her family. And, we always keep that communication and I always wanted to visit my friend. I always wanted to speak English too. So, that was part of my big dream to come to the United States. So, through the times I kept her friendship, and I went to apply for a visa in 1998. I was rejected. I went to apply in 2000. I did not was approved. And I went to apply again in December 2001. And that was the time that they allowed me to come with a visitor’s visa. And, that’s how I got here.
MC: Why do you think that they rejected you originally? Is that just how that process is?
AS: It was part of the process but it was also, Marisa, because you were coming from a--. I would say honestly, you were coming from a humble family. You do not have land or big accounts or you know. Also, it was my age. I was in a very critical age. They think, she doesn’t have anything, no family, no husband, no kids. She’s going to go and going to stay there. But, I applied three times and I am here.
MC: And, did you come alone originally? Or, can you tell me more about that?
AS: Yes. I flew here in December 23, 2001. And, I got to my friends in Raleigh. I stayed at her house about four months. The intention again, was to visit my friends and also to go, to be able to go to the CPCC to learn English. Somehow, in my mind, I was thinking that I was going to learn English in six months. I don’t know how, but it was like that. And, I was thinking, it was that--. My expectation was that I was going to go back to Costa Rica and continue college over there.
MC: And what were you studying there? I forgot to ask.
AS: Education. Rural education. The reason for me to study that--. It was really--. My main [inaudible] were teachers. And also, I wanted to work on the Indian reservations in Costa Rica. So that was part of why I was interested in that career.
MC: Wow. What was for you, the most difficult part about leaving Costa Rica and your home?
AS: Well, in that time, Marisa, when I left it was not difficult time because I was coming for a few months. I was never thinking or planning that I was going to be here for so many years. And now, almost twenty years. And it took me almost eight years to be able to go back to Costa Rica. So really the difficult time was when I realized my visa expired. I didn’t get a ticket to go back to Costa Rica. And I find myself alone without knowing what to do but with one thing is that I was going to speak English. No matter what. But that was my goal to be here.
MC: Wow. And so, [00:06:26] what was your journey like coming here? By yourself? On a plane trip? Was that your first plane trip? Just tell me more about that experience.
AS: Yeah, it was my first plane trip and it was traumatic [laughs]. I would say it was kind of exciting but also traumatic because again, I didn’t speak the language. I didn’t have any problem on the airplane in Costa Rica, but I have to stop and it was in Houston, Texas. And I had to transfer to another airplane. But I didn’t know how to ask for it. Where to go. The airport was big that I couldn’t see the door. I could not read my ticket. I remember my friend told me that in every counter there was supposed to be people that speak Engl--. Spanish. But the two, three times that I asked nobody speaks Spanish. But in the time that I was asking, one girl from Mexico-, that was my first time that I met someone from Mexico, she heard me. She come to me because she saw that I could not communicate and she asked me where are you going? So, I told her, Charlotte, NC. Raleigh NC. And she told me give me your ticket. So, she saw my ticket and she told me oh you’re really late, you have to run [laughs]. And so, I didn’t know to run where. So, she told me just follow me. And she took me to the other place. The door where I needed to be. And so, it was, the airport was so big and I remember I was running taking upstairs downstairs but I made it. I got to the airplane and I got to Raleigh. It was almost ten o’clock. And I left Costa Rica at six AM in the morning. So, it was yes, a little bit traumatic but it was also an adventure. It was exciting. It was something totally new for me.
MC: And, coming from a rural place in Costa Rica, what surprised you the most when you got to the United States?
AS: How everything was so big. The streets were big. The buildings. Also, I loved that everything was so clean. So many cars. That was the first impression more because I came from a rural area so I was not living in the city. So that was nice. That was something that caught my attention.
MC: Yeah. And before you came to the United States, what did you think it was going to be like before you got here? Did you hear anything on the news or from other people? Did you have this--. What did you imagine it being like?
AS: To be honest Marisa, I did not have any imagination where I was coming. Now, after so many years living here, sometimes I think, how I did not even look at the map? Where was this city I was going to? But again, coming from a small country--beautiful country--but we are a little close minded in that time. I’m talking about in the 90’s. Costa Rica is, it was to believe that it was the best country in Central America. And really, you really did not know much about your surroundings. You know about your country and you study when you go to high school, you go to college, you study about Europe. Not really about Central America or the countries around Costa Rica. So, to be honest, I was kind of ignorant. I don’t know how because I was going to college. You’re supposed to learn all of those things but I think I was. I don’t know, maybe living on the clouds [laughs]. I was a teenager.
MC: Yeah, and so when you got here, [00:10:51] what was it like for you? The years after you got here? What was life like for you? How did you get settled down?
AS: So, at that time, it was when I really started having a difficult time adjusting. So, after four months living with my friend, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. Somehow, they--. So, the conversation was, the intention was that I was going to come and stay for six months. Going to college. Community college. Learn some English and go back to Costa Rica. But when I got here, my friend was different. My friend was not the friend that I used to know when we were fourteen. She was married. She has kids. Her culture also changed. So, we did not feel comfortable with one another. I would say that. So, it was a point where she told me if I was not going to be in her house cleaning, babysitting, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. That was the time when I realized that I was alone.
MC: Wow. And what your next steps after that? If you don’t mind sharing.
AS: So, after that. Because I talked to my friend and explained to her, and she already knew my visa-- it was going to be expired. I didn’t have a ticket ready to go back to Costa Rica. So, she told me I can help you to find an American family that will allow you to stay at her house. And, she told me I will help you to find a job. And you decide whenever you’re ready to go back to Costa Rica. But, I was going to live with a family that I never saw in my life. I didn’t speak English. I didn’t have a car. So, I was just going to live in a house, you know like--.
MC: With strangers.
AS: Yes! With strange people that I cannot even communicate with. So, again, because my dream to learn English, I said it’s okay. So, I went, and I moved with this family that was again, in Raleigh in North Carolina. And I stayed in her house, in their house. They were a married couple. They did not have kids. And honestly, they were very welcoming. And even when we cannot communicate we were writing with a paper on a dictionary anything we want to ask or say, or question, or direction. They were very kind to me and to--. That is the main people that I appreciate every single day for me to be here today because they offered their house to me.
MC: Yeah. Wow. And how old were you then?
AS: I was twenty-six.
MC: Okay.
AS: And so, once I started living with this family I also found a job in a factory. And also, I was able to register at the community college. And in that time the community college offers transportation. So, I was going to the community college from seven thirty to maybe noon. They took me back to the house where I was living and I was going to work at the factor start at three o’clock to midnight. And that was every single day. Sometimes when I went to the CPCC classes, I was so sleepy and tired and I didn’t understand any English yet. So, I did that for maybe four months until really, I started understanding the language a little bit. I stayed with that family for about eight months. Almost a year. And I moved to Charlotte. When I left, when I moved to Charlotte I did not say bye to my friend because by that time they did not speak to me anymore. So, with that, I realized that I had become undocumented. That again, I didn’t have any family and was also poor. And I was in a big country where I was alone. But now, it was up to me to stay here. To go back. To do something or not. And, again, part of my dream to speak English, that passion, somehow helped me or gave me the strength to continue every day here until today that I’m a citizen now.
MC: Yeah. Congratulations. [00:16:06] How did you decide to come to Charlotte? Because you were living in Raleigh, right?
AS: Yeah. When I was in Raleigh, I did communicate with two friends that they were living here in Charlotte. Two sisters. One of them, she was my classmate in high school and the other she was classmate in college. And, they did move to Charlotte around--. One of the sisters was around the same year I moved. And her sister was here a long time ago. And I talked to them and I explained to them, you know, that I was there alone. That I was needing some support. And so, they were kind and nice and also, they know me in Costa Rica. We spend time over there. They went to pick me up and we ended in Charlotte. And at the end we were five Costa Rican girls living together. One from Michigan because she was here a long time ago but she was living in Michigan but she was also moving to Charlotte. Another three ladies from the same city, Heredia, with me. We were three. And another lady from a different city in Costa Rica, and we started living together. We started finding a job, working and going to community college. YMCA. Every ESL classes in the city we were going.
MC: What--. Did you finish the classes that you were taking in Raleigh? Did you get a degree? Or could you tell me.
AS: No, it was English--.
MC: Oh! It was just English.
AS: Basic ESL classes.
MC: English classes. Oh, okay. At the college.
AS: Yeah because that was the only program you can register when you were undocumented.
MC: Okay. Wow. And so, you started taking college classes here in Charlotte?
AS: Now. Yes. Years ago, but in that period of time from the beginning my first five, six years it was just ESL basic classes. Basic ESL classes.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:18] How did you get involved with the Latin American Coalition?
AS: So, when I moved to Charlotte, I mentioned before, I started my life here. I found a job. I continued going to ESL classes. Later in life I married. I got married here and I started knowing the city. By a newspaper, I believe, I knew about the Latin American Coalition and I started attending some of their workshops. And during that time, I was also, I come for the services. You know, I have some questions about some services and the city, and this was the main place to come. So, that was another way that I got connected with the Latin American Coalition. By 2007, around 2008, I was kind of like a volunteer with the Latin American Coalition in different workshops and learning about civic engagement. Learning about community resources in our community. Learning about immigration policies. You know, just learning about the city where you were living now. One of the great ways was to be a volunteer, meeting different people, also continue learning English, about the resources. And it was like that how I became part of the Latin American Coalition at the beginning as a volunteer in 2006, 2007.
MC: And then, how did you get the position as the Immigrant Welcome Center Manger?
AS: So, last year, it was a position opening. It was actually people around the community that contacted me to--. Letting me know about the position. I was looking for a position. I was in transition from a job to another and I applied for this position. The reason I applied for this was because it was very direct to the Latino families, assisting them with their issues, with the challenges. Very similar things I experience in my few years here. So, I wanted t to be a part of something that I really can make a difference in people’s lives. A meaningful job. I do want to be a part of that. And it was how I applied for the position and now I am here. So that was how I start with this position.
MC: Yeah. And [00:21:05] can you tell me more about the role of the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager? What you do every day?
AS: Yes. Here the Immigrant Welcome Center will assist the community in two ways. One of those is crisis. It can be crisis about shelter, bills, rent, food, even clothes. So, we assist families and we coordinate services with crisis assistance and the shelters around the city. Another way we serve the community is connecting them with different resources, assisting them to register their kids for school, to connect them with the health department, with the local clinics, with the lawyers, with the court system. With the services like the YMCA, child care resources. All of those services that are in our community that helps our community to improve their quality of life. But a lot of the times because of the language barrier, because maybe they just moved to the city, or to the state, or they were new arrivals like me. Sometime in the past, they don’t know about these services. So, that’s another way we connect them or we serve them. We also provide basic ESL classes, advance ESL classes--that’s conversational classes, basic computer classes. And a lot of the series of workshops that are needed for them to know more about the resources that integrate with our community.
MC: Wow. Working in your position, [00:23:00] what are the biggest challenges that you see that Latinos in the community struggle with? Or come in to talk more about?
AS: Personally, I believe, Marisa, the biggest struggle for our community is not to speak the language because again, from personal experiences, once you speak the language, you develop your confidence. Because you can communicate, you can ask for what you need. But, not to be able to do that creates a lot of fear, a lot of isolation, anxiety. So, I will say that is the biggest challenge for our community. That, but also immigration, you know. Because there are so many immigration policies at the federal level, at the state level that are continuously affecting the community and not just the Latino community, the community in general. So that you know, you’re working in one area in your life and there is a new policy that is coming and can stop this process for you. So, that is something that is affecting our community constantly.
MC: And so, [00:24:20] can you talk more about the resources the Latin American Coalition provides? The different workshops and the Immigrant Center?
AS: Yeah. We offer…one of the workshops, for example, is divorce and custody workshops. We offer that once a month. That is a collaboration with the North Carolina or Mecklenburg County court system because family law is very expensive so our families sometimes are totally unable to pay for a family lawyer. So, the court offers that workshop once a month. They do it in Spanish. They bring all the forms. They help the individual to complete and helping them to understand how to submit the forms and what is the process, how much maybe it takes. A great workshop. That’s one of the things we do. We also collaborate with the CMPD (Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department). So, the individuals they can have a presentation here about different topics about the community’s safety. So, we create that space. We also bring lawyers from different areas that can assist our family with fraud, scams. Like I said, family law, immigration. Consumer protection. Tax issues. So, we offer those kinds of workshops based on the community needs. I will say that this is some of the workshops we offer. We also offer translation and notary services. We have been-- if they need to send documentation to different organizations that are requesting this, but they do not own a computer or they do not know how to use it, or they don’t have an email. So, this is like a one stop place that they can do everything they need in their own language and we do not do the things for them. We help them. We assist them because we want for them to develop their confidence. To develop their potential. That they can do so many things by themselves and they just need to believe in themselves and you know, follow the process to be able to complete it.
MC: Well thank you. That’s all the questions I have. [00:26:49] Is there anything you’d like to add? Any last comments?
AS: No. Oh well, maybe what I mentioned before about my immigration case. It took me many years. So, it’s going to be nineteen years this December. So, to become a legal resident, to become a citizen, it’s not something that happens in five years. It can take years for an individual. So, to have that support from our community, from our institutions, we’re really helping individuals. No matter which country he is from or which language they speak. Allow them to be a part of the community and they also like today, Marisa. I am a citizen. Yes. And thank God for that. But before a citizen, I was doing everything I can to support, not just my Latino community, but every community member in so many different ways. Because, we do love our community. We do love this country. We do want the best for this country. So, yes. We do speak a different language but our heart is here. Our families are here. And we are not so different than sometimes people think. So thank you for allowing me to share a little bit about my personal story. Thank you for the job that you are doing. I think that will be all.
MC: Alright, thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Organizadores comunitarios
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Temas
Ciudadanía e inmigración; Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Experiencia migratoria; Comunidades receptoras; Redes sociales
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Hi. My name is Marisa Carlton and I’m here with Alba Sánchez and we’re going to interview her about her migration story. Hola Alba. How are you?
Alba Sánchez: Good. How are you Marisa?
MC: Good. Thank you for meeting with me. So, first of all, I want to ask, [00:00:19] where are you from originally and can you tell me a little bit about the area?
AS: Yes. I’m from Costa Rica. A city that is called Heredia. It’s a very-. It’s a rural area but very pretty with a lot of nature, rivers, rainforests. It’s a small town. We are about six hundred people. Maybe eight hundred. We know each other. A lot of these families are family members.
MC: And—.
AS: [coughs].
MC: Did you always live there?
AS: Yes. Yes. I lived there my twenty-six years. I went to school there. I went to high school there and also, I went to college. So, it is two, three hours to go to high school or college, but we were able to go yes.
MC: Where did you go to school?
AS: You mean college?
MC: Yeah.
AS: The Universidad Nacional. The National University in Heredia.
MC: Oh, wow.
AS: It’s one of the three national universities in Costa Rica.
MC: Do you still—
MC: Do you still have family there?
AS: Everyone.
MC: All your family?
AS: All. My mom. My dad. My brothers. Everyone is in Costa Rica. Yes.
MC: Wow. So, can you tell me a little about your childhood? What living there was like for you? Your favorite memories?
AS: It was a beautiful childhood. Again, it’s nature. I love nature. We were able to play all the time outside. You know, play, go to the rivers, with family members play soccer, going to school. It was a very, very healthy childhood. We didn’t have electronics. The first time I had a TV I was twenty years. [laughs]. The same thing for the telephone. We were very close to our families. So, really our friends were our cousins, our uncles, my mom, my dad, my grandfather. People that lived around us.
MC: Right.
AS: It was a safety community. Safe community.
MC: [00:02:41] When did you choose to migrate to the United States?
AS: The first time I decided to come to the United States was in 1998. And the reason I decided to come was because when I was a teenager, I had one of my best friends that she moved to North Carolina with her family. And, we always keep that communication and I always wanted to visit my friend. I always wanted to speak English too. So, that was part of my big dream to come to the United States. So, through the times I kept her friendship, and I went to apply for a visa in 1998. I was rejected. I went to apply in 2000. I did not was approved. And I went to apply again in December 2001. And that was the time that they allowed me to come with a visitor’s visa. And, that’s how I got here.
MC: Why do you think that they rejected you originally? Is that just how that process is?
AS: It was part of the process but it was also, Marisa, because you were coming from a--. I would say honestly, you were coming from a humble family. You do not have land or big accounts or you know. Also, it was my age. I was in a very critical age. They think, she doesn’t have anything, no family, no husband, no kids. She’s going to go and going to stay there. But, I applied three times and I am here.
MC: And, did you come alone originally? Or, can you tell me more about that?
AS: Yes. I flew here in December 23, 2001. And, I got to my friends in Raleigh. I stayed at her house about four months. The intention again, was to visit my friends and also to go, to be able to go to the CPCC to learn English. Somehow, in my mind, I was thinking that I was going to learn English in six months. I don’t know how, but it was like that. And, I was thinking, it was that--. My expectation was that I was going to go back to Costa Rica and continue college over there.
MC: And what were you studying there? I forgot to ask.
AS: Education. Rural education. The reason for me to study that--. It was really--. My main [inaudible] were teachers. And also, I wanted to work on the Indian reservations in Costa Rica. So that was part of why I was interested in that career.
MC: Wow. What was for you, the most difficult part about leaving Costa Rica and your home?
AS: Well, in that time, Marisa, when I left it was not difficult time because I was coming for a few months. I was never thinking or planning that I was going to be here for so many years. And now, almost twenty years. And it took me almost eight years to be able to go back to Costa Rica. So really the difficult time was when I realized my visa expired. I didn’t get a ticket to go back to Costa Rica. And I find myself alone without knowing what to do but with one thing is that I was going to speak English. No matter what. But that was my goal to be here.
MC: Wow. And so, [00:06:26] what was your journey like coming here? By yourself? On a plane trip? Was that your first plane trip? Just tell me more about that experience.
AS: Yeah, it was my first plane trip and it was traumatic [laughs]. I would say it was kind of exciting but also traumatic because again, I didn’t speak the language. I didn’t have any problem on the airplane in Costa Rica, but I have to stop and it was in Houston, Texas. And I had to transfer to another airplane. But I didn’t know how to ask for it. Where to go. The airport was big that I couldn’t see the door. I could not read my ticket. I remember my friend told me that in every counter there was supposed to be people that speak Engl--. Spanish. But the two, three times that I asked nobody speaks Spanish. But in the time that I was asking, one girl from Mexico-, that was my first time that I met someone from Mexico, she heard me. She come to me because she saw that I could not communicate and she asked me where are you going? So, I told her, Charlotte, NC. Raleigh NC. And she told me give me your ticket. So, she saw my ticket and she told me oh you’re really late, you have to run [laughs]. And so, I didn’t know to run where. So, she told me just follow me. And she took me to the other place. The door where I needed to be. And so, it was, the airport was so big and I remember I was running taking upstairs downstairs but I made it. I got to the airplane and I got to Raleigh. It was almost ten o’clock. And I left Costa Rica at six AM in the morning. So, it was yes, a little bit traumatic but it was also an adventure. It was exciting. It was something totally new for me.
MC: And, coming from a rural place in Costa Rica, what surprised you the most when you got to the United States?
AS: How everything was so big. The streets were big. The buildings. Also, I loved that everything was so clean. So many cars. That was the first impression more because I came from a rural area so I was not living in the city. So that was nice. That was something that caught my attention.
MC: Yeah. And before you came to the United States, what did you think it was going to be like before you got here? Did you hear anything on the news or from other people? Did you have this--. What did you imagine it being like?
AS: To be honest Marisa, I did not have any imagination where I was coming. Now, after so many years living here, sometimes I think, how I did not even look at the map? Where was this city I was going to? But again, coming from a small country--beautiful country--but we are a little close minded in that time. I’m talking about in the 90’s. Costa Rica is, it was to believe that it was the best country in Central America. And really, you really did not know much about your surroundings. You know about your country and you study when you go to high school, you go to college, you study about Europe. Not really about Central America or the countries around Costa Rica. So, to be honest, I was kind of ignorant. I don’t know how because I was going to college. You’re supposed to learn all of those things but I think I was. I don’t know, maybe living on the clouds [laughs]. I was a teenager.
MC: Yeah, and so when you got here, [00:10:51] what was it like for you? The years after you got here? What was life like for you? How did you get settled down?
AS: So, at that time, it was when I really started having a difficult time adjusting. So, after four months living with my friend, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. Somehow, they--. So, the conversation was, the intention was that I was going to come and stay for six months. Going to college. Community college. Learn some English and go back to Costa Rica. But when I got here, my friend was different. My friend was not the friend that I used to know when we were fourteen. She was married. She has kids. Her culture also changed. So, we did not feel comfortable with one another. I would say that. So, it was a point where she told me if I was not going to be in her house cleaning, babysitting, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. That was the time when I realized that I was alone.
MC: Wow. And what your next steps after that? If you don’t mind sharing.
AS: So, after that. Because I talked to my friend and explained to her, and she already knew my visa-- it was going to be expired. I didn’t have a ticket ready to go back to Costa Rica. So, she told me I can help you to find an American family that will allow you to stay at her house. And, she told me I will help you to find a job. And you decide whenever you’re ready to go back to Costa Rica. But, I was going to live with a family that I never saw in my life. I didn’t speak English. I didn’t have a car. So, I was just going to live in a house, you know like--.
MC: With strangers.
AS: Yes! With strange people that I cannot even communicate with. So, again, because my dream to learn English, I said it’s okay. So, I went, and I moved with this family that was again, in Raleigh in North Carolina. And I stayed in her house, in their house. They were a married couple. They did not have kids. And honestly, they were very welcoming. And even when we cannot communicate we were writing with a paper on a dictionary anything we want to ask or say, or question, or direction. They were very kind to me and to--. That is the main people that I appreciate every single day for me to be here today because they offered their house to me.
MC: Yeah. Wow. And how old were you then?
AS: I was twenty-six.
MC: Okay.
AS: And so, once I started living with this family I also found a job in a factory. And also, I was able to register at the community college. And in that time the community college offers transportation. So, I was going to the community college from seven thirty to maybe noon. They took me back to the house where I was living and I was going to work at the factor start at three o’clock to midnight. And that was every single day. Sometimes when I went to the CPCC classes, I was so sleepy and tired and I didn’t understand any English yet. So, I did that for maybe four months until really, I started understanding the language a little bit. I stayed with that family for about eight months. Almost a year. And I moved to Charlotte. When I left, when I moved to Charlotte I did not say bye to my friend because by that time they did not speak to me anymore. So, with that, I realized that I had become undocumented. That again, I didn’t have any family and was also poor. And I was in a big country where I was alone. But now, it was up to me to stay here. To go back. To do something or not. And, again, part of my dream to speak English, that passion, somehow helped me or gave me the strength to continue every day here until today that I’m a citizen now.
MC: Yeah. Congratulations. [00:16:06] How did you decide to come to Charlotte? Because you were living in Raleigh, right?
AS: Yeah. When I was in Raleigh, I did communicate with two friends that they were living here in Charlotte. Two sisters. One of them, she was my classmate in high school and the other she was classmate in college. And, they did move to Charlotte around--. One of the sisters was around the same year I moved. And her sister was here a long time ago. And I talked to them and I explained to them, you know, that I was there alone. That I was needing some support. And so, they were kind and nice and also, they know me in Costa Rica. We spend time over there. They went to pick me up and we ended in Charlotte. And at the end we were five Costa Rican girls living together. One from Michigan because she was here a long time ago but she was living in Michigan but she was also moving to Charlotte. Another three ladies from the same city, Heredia, with me. We were three. And another lady from a different city in Costa Rica, and we started living together. We started finding a job, working and going to community college. YMCA. Every ESL classes in the city we were going.
MC: What--. Did you finish the classes that you were taking in Raleigh? Did you get a degree? Or could you tell me.
AS: No, it was English--.
MC: Oh! It was just English.
AS: Basic ESL classes.
MC: English classes. Oh, okay. At the college.
AS: Yeah because that was the only program you can register when you were undocumented.
MC: Okay. Wow. And so, you started taking college classes here in Charlotte?
AS: Now. Yes. Years ago, but in that period of time from the beginning my first five, six years it was just ESL basic classes. Basic ESL classes.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:18] How did you get involved with the Latin American Coalition?
AS: So, when I moved to Charlotte, I mentioned before, I started my life here. I found a job. I continued going to ESL classes. Later in life I married. I got married here and I started knowing the city. By a newspaper, I believe, I knew about the Latin American Coalition and I started attending some of their workshops. And during that time, I was also, I come for the services. You know, I have some questions about some services and the city, and this was the main place to come. So, that was another way that I got connected with the Latin American Coalition. By 2007, around 2008, I was kind of like a volunteer with the Latin American Coalition in different workshops and learning about civic engagement. Learning about community resources in our community. Learning about immigration policies. You know, just learning about the city where you were living now. One of the great ways was to be a volunteer, meeting different people, also continue learning English, about the resources. And it was like that how I became part of the Latin American Coalition at the beginning as a volunteer in 2006, 2007.
MC: And then, how did you get the position as the Immigrant Welcome Center Manger?
AS: So, last year, it was a position opening. It was actually people around the community that contacted me to--. Letting me know about the position. I was looking for a position. I was in transition from a job to another and I applied for this position. The reason I applied for this was because it was very direct to the Latino families, assisting them with their issues, with the challenges. Very similar things I experience in my few years here. So, I wanted t to be a part of something that I really can make a difference in people’s lives. A meaningful job. I do want to be a part of that. And it was how I applied for the position and now I am here. So that was how I start with this position.
MC: Yeah. And [00:21:05] can you tell me more about the role of the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager? What you do every day?
AS: Yes. Here the Immigrant Welcome Center will assist the community in two ways. One of those is crisis. It can be crisis about shelter, bills, rent, food, even clothes. So, we assist families and we coordinate services with crisis assistance and the shelters around the city. Another way we serve the community is connecting them with different resources, assisting them to register their kids for school, to connect them with the health department, with the local clinics, with the lawyers, with the court system. With the services like the YMCA, child care resources. All of those services that are in our community that helps our community to improve their quality of life. But a lot of the times because of the language barrier, because maybe they just moved to the city, or to the state, or they were new arrivals like me. Sometime in the past, they don’t know about these services. So, that’s another way we connect them or we serve them. We also provide basic ESL classes, advance ESL classes--that’s conversational classes, basic computer classes. And a lot of the series of workshops that are needed for them to know more about the resources that integrate with our community.
MC: Wow. Working in your position, [00:23:00] what are the biggest challenges that you see that Latinos in the community struggle with? Or come in to talk more about?
AS: Personally, I believe, Marisa, the biggest struggle for our community is not to speak the language because again, from personal experiences, once you speak the language, you develop your confidence. Because you can communicate, you can ask for what you need. But, not to be able to do that creates a lot of fear, a lot of isolation, anxiety. So, I will say that is the biggest challenge for our community. That, but also immigration, you know. Because there are so many immigration policies at the federal level, at the state level that are continuously affecting the community and not just the Latino community, the community in general. So that you know, you’re working in one area in your life and there is a new policy that is coming and can stop this process for you. So, that is something that is affecting our community constantly.
MC: And so, [00:24:20] can you talk more about the resources the Latin American Coalition provides? The different workshops and the Immigrant Center?
AS: Yeah. We offer…one of the workshops, for example, is divorce and custody workshops. We offer that once a month. That is a collaboration with the North Carolina or Mecklenburg County court system because family law is very expensive so our families sometimes are totally unable to pay for a family lawyer. So, the court offers that workshop once a month. They do it in Spanish. They bring all the forms. They help the individual to complete and helping them to understand how to submit the forms and what is the process, how much maybe it takes. A great workshop. That’s one of the things we do. We also collaborate with the CMPD (Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department). So, the individuals they can have a presentation here about different topics about the community’s safety. So, we create that space. We also bring lawyers from different areas that can assist our family with fraud, scams. Like I said, family law, immigration. Consumer protection. Tax issues. So, we offer those kinds of workshops based on the community needs. I will say that this is some of the workshops we offer. We also offer translation and notary services. We have been-- if they need to send documentation to different organizations that are requesting this, but they do not own a computer or they do not know how to use it, or they don’t have an email. So, this is like a one stop place that they can do everything they need in their own language and we do not do the things for them. We help them. We assist them because we want for them to develop their confidence. To develop their potential. That they can do so many things by themselves and they just need to believe in themselves and you know, follow the process to be able to complete it.
MC: Well thank you. That’s all the questions I have. [00:26:49] Is there anything you’d like to add? Any last comments?
AS: No. Oh well, maybe what I mentioned before about my immigration case. It took me many years. So, it’s going to be nineteen years this December. So, to become a legal resident, to become a citizen, it’s not something that happens in five years. It can take years for an individual. So, to have that support from our community, from our institutions, we’re really helping individuals. No matter which country he is from or which language they speak. Allow them to be a part of the community and they also like today, Marisa. I am a citizen. Yes. And thank God for that. But before a citizen, I was doing everything I can to support, not just my Latino community, but every community member in so many different ways. Because, we do love our community. We do love this country. We do want the best for this country. So, yes. We do speak a different language but our heart is here. Our families are here. And we are not so different than sometimes people think. So thank you for allowing me to share a little bit about my personal story. Thank you for the job that you are doing. I think that will be all.
MC: Alright, thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Es: Resumen
Alba Sánchez es la Gerente del Centro de Bienvenida al Inmigrante en la Coalición Latinoamericana en Charlotte en el estado de Carolina del Norte. Ella nació en Costa Rico y vivió en un pequeño pueblo llamado San Rafael en el estado de Heredia. Ella emigró a los Estados Unidos cuando tenía veintiséis años. Sánchez explica cómo era San Rafael, refiriendo al paisaje de la región y al tamaño del pueblo. Ella habla sobre su infancia y cómo era la vida para su familia que vive en Costa Rica. Menciona que todos los miembros de su familia todavía residen allí. Sánchez dice que asistió a la Universidad Nacional de La Heredia, una de las mejores escuelas de su estado. Ella describe cómo fue su viaje a los Estados Unidos y los desafíos que enfrentó cuando llegó. Cuenta sobre su motivación por aprender inglés y como le animó empezar una nueva vida en Carolina del Norte. Sánchez luego explica sus razones para mudarse a Charlotte, Carolina del Norte y su trabajo como la Gerente del Centro de Bienvenida al Inmigrante en la Coalición Latinoamericana. Ella dice que primero se involucró con la Coalición como miembro de la comunidad y luego como voluntaria. Describe los servicios que ofrece la Coalición Latinoamericana, como talleres de ciudadanía, clases de inglés como segunda idioma (ESL por sus siglas en inglés), servicios de traducción y otros recursos para la comunidad. Ella habla de los desafíos de la comunidad latina en Charlotte. Sánchez cierra la entrevista explicando su caso de inmigración y manifestando su amor por la comunidad.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Alba Sánchez, 21 mayo 2019, R-0991, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0991 -- Sánchez, Alba.
Description
An account of the resource
Alba Sánchez is the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition in Charlotte, North Carolina. She is originally from Costa Rica from a small town called San Rafael in the province of Heredia. She emigrated to the United States when she was twenty-six years old. In this interview, Sánchez explains what San Rafael was like, referring to the landscape of the region and the size of the town. She discusses her childhood and what life was like for her and her family living in Costa Rica and mentions that all of her family members still reside there. Sánchez mentions attending the University Nacional of La Heredia, one of the top schools in her state. She describes what her journey of coming to the United States was like and the challenges she faced once she arrived. She tells me about her drive and passion to learn English and how that was a major motivational factor for her once she was in North Carolina. Sánchez later explains her reasons for moving to Charlotte, North Carolina, and how she became the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition. She shares that she first became involved with the Coalition as a community member and later as a volunteer. She describes the multitude of services that the Latin American Coalition offers, such as citizenship workshops, ESL classes, translation services, and other resources for the community. She also touches on the biggest challenges that she sees the Latino community struggles with the most in Charlotte. Sánchez closes the interview by telling me about her immigration case and stating her love for this United States and her community.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-05-21
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28588">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
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R0991_Audio.mp3
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/8cbdb747ddb608b0372756bcddc90d32.mp3
c7f8867ecda481b61f5328731941a9a0
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/99fdafc72977cad1eab0a5327c8186ca.pdf
8335e0176ee8c4b71d04344ce5819c61
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0994
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2020-04-17
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Gamiño, Victor Canales.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Community organizers
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1991
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Guanajuato --Guanajuato -- Mexico
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Durham -- Durham County --North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-101.25501251220703 21.017959594726562),1991,1;POINT(-78.9018053 35.996653),1999,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Blanton, Sarah.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Victor Canales Gamiño is the youth organizing director at Student Action with Farmworkers (SAF) at Duke University. In this interview, he discusses his migration to the United States from Mexico when he was only eight years old, his experiences working with farmworkers, SAF’s mission and initiatives, and he elaborates on the ways in which one can get involved to support farmworkers even during the Covid-19 crisis.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Victor Canales Gamiño, 17 April 2020, R-0994, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28573
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Community and social services and programs; Labor and employment; Activism; COVID-19; Receiving Communities
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Sarah Blanton: All right, let's get started. My name is Sarah Blanton, and today I'm interviewing Victor Canales Gamiño, the youth organizing director with Student Action with Farmworkers. We are doing this interview on Zoom due to the current crisis of Covid-19 and social distancing measures. I am at my home in Yanceyville, North Carolina, and I am talking with Victor, who is currently in Durham. The date is April 17th, 2020, and it is 11:58 AM. Victor, thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Victor Canales Gamiño: Thank you so much, Sarah, for allowing us to share our story and share about what our organization does.
SB: Great. [00:00:52] Well, Victor, can you tell me a little bit about yourself, just introduce yourself and tell me where you're from?
VCG: Yeah. So, yeah, Sarah, I was - - My name is Victor Canales Gamiño. Where I'm from? That's a good question [laughter]. I was, if you ask me where I was born, I was born in México, in Guanajuato, México, and when I was eight years old, we migrated to Idaho. If you're talking about culture shock, Idaho is culture shock for me. And so it was interesting because we first started, and we first stopped in Phoenix, Arizona, and I was like, oh, this is like Mexico. I see a lot of Latinos. This is awesome. And then my Dad said, nope, we're actually moving up north and I, we, landed in Idaho. This average sized town, Mountain Home, Idaho, and we lived in a small little apartment and it was ten of us in my household. So, for me, was so different. So it was a culture shock. I did not like pizza. I hated hamburgers. I wanted to eat lots of yummy food that my mom and my grandma made in México. And so it was a little bit different for me. So, I grew up in Idaho since I was eight years old. I be. That's where I did all my education, and so, yeah.
SB: Wow. Which food did you miss the most?
VCG: Nopales, which in English you can translate it to maybe cacti or cactus. Yeah.
SB: Sounds good. So, [00:02:29] how did you begin working with farmworkers? What drew you to this occupation?
VCG: So, growing up in México, I come from a family of farmers; they used to farm their own lands. They had their own ejidos, which was land that was given to them by the Mexican government after the Mexican Revolution. And so my grandparents, both of them farmed. So I would go help them out, you know, in their fields, in their plots of fields. And it wasn't until I was eight years old that we decided to come to the US. We came here without any documents so I wasn't documented and I almost lost my life crossing the Río Grande. It was interesting because my dad did petition for us to get our permanent resident cards but Immigration said, “Bring your family” and my dad said, “Do I need a visa for that?” And they said, “Nope, just bring them however you want.” Pretty much. And that was so wrong, the way they did it. So my dad said, “Okay, I'll bring them over.” And so I had to cross the Río Grande. And so, I came to Idaho and then that's what my dad did in Idaho: He was a farmworker. Oftentimes I would wonder what my dad did in the US because he would send us money so that we could, you know, eat and provide for the whole family. But, you know, the conversion from dollars to pesos is like, whoa, like— my dad's doing something awesome, you know, and so I want to go and do the same thing. So we decided that when we got to Idaho, we were all going to work in the fields. I was like, yes! I'm going to work in the fields. One of the reasons why I wanted to work was because I told my other cousin that I would buy him a truck. And so I had to work now [laughter] and I started working in the fields and that was not a place for a child to be at. And, so, it was super-hot. I wanted to be playing with my friends, with the new friends I made, and I was working like a normal adult, same hours doing the same type of work. So, for me was a little bit hard. It really did hit me hard. And so that's how I started working in actual farm work. You asked, how did I began working with farmworkers? Well, I come from a farmworker background. So, the first time I started working with farmworkers was when I decided to go to college. And this one recruiter came to my high school. His name is Jesse Martínez from the University of Idaho, and he talked about his experience about working in the fields about going to college; he graduated from college. Now he's working for the university. And I saw myself in that -- in him. And I was like, whoa, if he did it, I can do it too. And so I asked him, how do I do it? And he said, well, all you have to do is follow my instructions. I don't promise you that you're going to get admitted to an institution, but I'm going to help you along the way. And I believed him. And I followed every single step. He's like, now you have to do the FAFSA. This is how you do the FAFSA. Now you have to apply, this is how you apply to the University of Idaho. Can you fax me this document? And I remember that sometimes we didn't have enough money to even fax, you know, documents. I would be asking my mom and she'd be like, “Oh, I found some quarters! Let's go fax them, let's go to the store.” And so, it was little by little that I got to college. And so, I - - The program that Jesse Martínez worked in, it was called the College Assistance Migrant Program. It was a federal program designated to help students who come from a farmworker background. They created this family away from home. They supported me financially, socially, culturally; it was the best program ever. And they introduced me to a Student Action with Farmworkers. They're like, hey, there's this internship, you know, we always get some students that get to go to North Carolina and do an internship and work with farmworkers. I was like, yep! I'm down. I talked to other alumni on campus who had gone through the internship and they always recommended it 100%. And so I applied. I didn't get admitted the first time. And I was so bummed out. But then I applied again and then I got in. Because that meant that if I didn't go to the internship, I would go back to work in the fields, which I did every summer of my college breaks or vacations. I got the internship in 2011. I was a junior in college, and it totally, you know - - it changed my life. I worked with legal aid and I worked with their farmworker unit. And so, my job was to go in visit labor camps, talk to the farmworkers, tell them about their rights. But I think what I like the most about doing outreach was that I got to talk to workers, you know, that's my favorite part. You know, sometimes I would go there and I wouldn't even tell them about legal stuff, you know? Let's just get to know the workers. Let's just talk to them and see what their life is like, because they would go on and talk about their families back in México, their daughters’ quinceañeras, or just tell us their story of why they're there, working in the fields. Throughout time they would gain confianza or confidence. You know, they would start talking to us about what's going on. But I think my goal was always, I'm going to go and talk to them about their lives, our lives, and that's it. And then if they bring anything up, then I can tell them, like, “Hey, you know, these are your rights under the law and stuff like that.” So that's how I started working with SAF as an intern. And a little bit after being an intern, I graduated from college and Legal Aid, The Farmworker Unit, they actually hired me as one of their paralegals, so I worked with them for a year. I did the internship there with SAF and then they actually hired me to work for them as a paralegal. And then a couple years, a year after that, the camp program where I was a student, or scholar, they had the recruitment position open. So I decided to apply and I became the recruiter. I was there for about five years. I was I was now the one going to the high schools, talking to the students, sharing my story. And in a way, I was giving back. You know, to a program that gave so much to me. I worked there from 2014 to 2019, so I've been with SAF for about seven or eight months now.
SB: Wow, that is, that's an incredible story. So, I am wondering-- [00:09:17] You said that it sounds like something that ties what you do together is your love of connecting with people. Do you have any particular memories or stories, either with the high schoolers or with the farmworkers that you want to share?
VCG: Yes, so I had a story about when I was recruiting with the College Assistance Migrant Program at the University of Idaho. I would go visit many high schools, and Idaho is an agricultural state, so we have a lot of farmworkers. One of the biggest differences between farmworkers in North Carolina and Idaho is that in North Carolina, there's a lot of migrants, which means that they move throughout the year to find to find work in agriculture, either in North Carolina or New Jersey, Michigan, you know, they're migrating. North Carolina may not be their permanent home. In Idaho, there's a lot of seasonal farmworkers, which means that we, the people that work there, they live within the same community for the most part. I mean, we do still have migrant farmworkers, but the most farmworkers that we have are the ones that actually live in the state or in the community where they do the agricultural work. My job was to visit high schools where there was a lot of agricultural activity, and I went to this one high school at Burley High School. I reached out to the counselor and I asked him, can I meet with some of your students who work in agriculture? And he said, yeah, that's fine. You can come and be with them and I went there. I went to the high school I gave out my presentation. And a lot of the students that were talking to me, I realized that when we had the one-on-one talks, they were like the students who were doing pretty good academically, like – 4.0, 3.9, 3.8. And I was like, oh, okay, because I usually ask to meet with any student who's interested in college, no matter if it's going to be at a different university. I just said any student who comes from this background and who wants to go to college, or maybe they don't know much of what college is like. So I did my presentation, and then I packed everything, and I was on my way out. Outside the door, I see one of my students sitting there from the high school outside my door and he approached me. He's like, hey, are you Victor? And I was like, yeah. Nice to meet you. He's like, hey, I heard that you were coming. I was like, yeah, why weren't you in there? He’s like, oh, my counselor didn't tell me. And I asked him, what do you mean? I told him that, you know, to invite everyone who was interested. He said, I know he didn't invite me. So, as we were talking, I realized that he was a student who was not academically advanced, and so I got so upset. I was like, what?! I wanted to talk to everyone. I was like, I have time to talk to you. I can talk to you right now. He's like, yeah, let's talk. And so we started talking. He worked at a dairy. He worked full time at a dairy. He went to school. And so he was one of the primary breadwinners in his family. And so he's like, that's why I'm not doing well academically. And I was like, no, that's fine. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not judging you, I'm just trying to see what's going on in your situation. And then I told him, hey, do you want to go to college? He's like, yeah. And I said the same thing that Jesse Martínez told me before. I was like, just follow what I'm telling you. I don't promise you that you are going to get admitted, you know, we're going to try. If you don't get admitted, we're going to appeal and then we'll go from there. So just follow my instructions. And he did. He followed all my instructions. He didn't get admitted because he did not meet the GPA requirement, but I told him to appeal, how to write a letter, I reviewed his letter. He submitted it, he submitted references, and he got in. And so for me was like, whoa, like, you know, these, these are the students that we want to help, you know - - yes. We're going to help any student regardless of if they’re doing really good or not. But students who had like las ganas, you know, the ganas factor, you know - - the will to succeed, the will to commit, to continue. And in college, this student became a student senator, he traveled abroad to Spain, and he keeps saying, thank you, Victor, this is all to you. And I was like, no, this is all thanks to you, you know, it's your work. You know, I was just, I was just there along the way to do to help. And he's like, you know, I'm glad that I stayed after your presentation because it totally has changed my life. And so, for me, that's one of the stories that I always tell because a lot of people think that oh, I have to have a high GPA to go to college. No! I was like, my GPA was not even a 3.0 when I applied to the University of Idaho and I barely got admitted, but as long as you have ganas, you know, there's always a way. But that's a story that I will share because that's the type of student that really need the programs that we provide at the federal level or at the state level or within the universities.
SB: Wow, that's, that's a beautiful story. And that was when you were working in recruitment with Student Action with Farmworkers.
VCG: Yes, that is correct.
SB: So [00:14:14] what is your role now?
VCG: My role now, I am the youth organizing director with Student Action with Farmworkers, SAF. We have many different programs. We have a college Into the Fields internship program. That's the one that I did as a student. They provide an internship to students from nationwide who are interested in working alongside with farmworkers. And so what they do is that we bring all these students, about twenty to twenty-five students. And then we provide them to work with an organization that directly provides services to farmworkers - - either a health clinic, legal aid, a migrant education program with the school district - - so those are some of the areas where we placed interns. We have another group. It's a high school youth group and it's called the Levante Leadership Institute, and I am the one who coordinates that program. I work with high school youth who come from a farmworker background. And I also provide services, not just to the youth, but also to the families. So, we provide educational information, we provide information about how to advocate for your own community. We empower them not only in the educational, like, let's go to college, but also like, what are the issues that affect the community? How can you as a student, as a person from this community, empower your community? So we teach them how to advocate, how to lobby, how to protest. All of those things. I have the honor to work alongside with the youth.
SB: Wonderful. So, [00:16:04] with Student Action with Farmworkers, your role specifically looks at the youth. What other kinds of things does this organization do?
VCG: We provide a lot of - - I think Student Action with Farmworkers, you know, what we do is pretty much in the name. We bring students and farmworkers together so that they can create social change and justice within the agricultural system. We do that with working with students from different campuses, working with the community, providing information. Advocating. You know, how can we advocate for farmworkers. We provide a lot of trainings, we visit different universities. We provide trainings or information to churches. If there's a petition going on, if there's a bill that we support, we ask people to support it with us, sign onto the petition, sign onto the bill. We have a lobbyist, (person’s name?), and this lobbyist is at the state assembly in North Carolina, speaking on behalf of SAF and other nonprofits about farmworker issues, support this bill, or don't support this bill because it's detrimental to farmworkers, you know, and their lives. And so that's one of the things that we do in that program. My colleague Bianca works on that. It's called From the Ground Up. And so she's in charge of actually coordinating also like National Farmworker Awareness Week. So pretty much, getting the word out to the community, to people who might not know about farmworkers, and then she also provides information on how to support, how to take action. Do you want to go on a on a protest with us? Do you want to sign this petition? Do you want us to go to your school and talk about our programs? And so that's one of the ways that we do it. We also have the Into the Fields like I said, internship and fellowship. The internship is ten weeks, the fellowship is six months. And pretty much the internship is where we place the students in different areas: health, migrant education, legal aid, and lobbying, or with a lobbyist. Those are the different areas where we place students and then the fellowship is mostly working with health agencies and they're there for six months because we want them to be there for the whole season where farmworkers are working. It's not just ten weeks, they're actually there for the whole summer, and then a little bit more into October and November when it, when it all quiets down. We also have a Solidaridad Internship and this is an academic year internship for college students. And usually what we do is we get about five or six interns from the different campuses in the triangle. So that includes Durham, Chapel Hill, and Raleigh, and so Duke University, Chapel Hill-UNC, NC State. We get interns from there and they work with our programs with our individual programs. I get one student who works with me and with the Levante Leadership Institute. And pretty much they accompany me, they help me create campus visits, they do their own workshops that we coordinate. We invite the parents to the monthly meetings. We have monthly meetings with the students. And we have a session for students. And then we have a session for parents. Sometimes they're combined. But then in one of the sessions, my intern, my solidaridad intern might be talking to the students. And then I may be talking to the parents. We also have guests that come to our meetings. A lot of times the intern is the one who coordinates, who comes to our meetings, who gets to talk to our parents. We provide a lot of services to our parents. One of the parents in our youth group, they were affected by scam calls who actually, you know, call and take your money away. So one of our families was affected by that. So we invited the Better Business Bureau to talk to them about, you know, what are some of the current scams going on? How do you react to those, you know, how do you report those calls, and things like that. We also talk about healthy eating habits. Some of the parents talk about - - So we asked the parents, what do you want to learn about? Some of them say immigration. Can you bring in a lawyer to talk to us? Can you can talk about healthy eating habits? So, we pretty much work with the youth and with the parents together. We don't come with approach, like, hey, this is what we're going to do. We actually talk to them. What are the needs that the community has? And so, pretty much, my solidaridad intern is pretty much-- like I say that she's like my co-director-- because, pretty much, that's what we do. And so, we have the Into the Fields internship, we have the fellowship, we have the solidaridad internship, and then we also have the From the Ground Up, which is a lot of the advocating, the lobbying, the take action part of SAF. Yes.
SB: Wow. So, [00:21:02] for the guests that come and talk to the parents and the students, that's always kind of a directive from the people? You ask them what they want to hear about, and then you find guests to come in?
VCG: Yes, so we usually ask the parents like when I started working with SAF, I asked them, so, what are some of the needs? What are some of the things that are going on? I'm new to the program, so just let me know what's going on. And a lot of times they're like, hey, like we like to hear about immigration stuff because a lot of our parents are undocumented. And so they're like from mixed status families. So, I’m not going to say all of them, but they're from mixed status families. So, that's one of the biggest things they want to learn about is, you know, and then also education. How do we get our students to go on? What are some of the resources? How can you lead us throughout the way because a lot of times they say that their students don't share that with them like they did. The students might learn about FAFSA, but they don't go home and tell them, like, oh, I did the FAFSA. This is what it is. And a lot of times, the parents say, like what we always say it's like, okay, m’hijo, m’hija, we support you, but they also want to learn. So, I go with them, and follow the whole process with them. Okay— This is what the FAFSA looks like. This is what you need to do. This is what they're going to ask you. If you go through the verification process on the FAFSA, don't get scared. It's normal. They're going to probably ask you to get a transcript, a tax transcript, from the IRS. That's completely normal. I can help you with that, too. So, pretty much, it's like a community approach.
SB: Okay, great. And so [00:22:30] Student Action with Farmworkers hosts a National Farmworker Awareness Week, which occurs at the end of March. Can you tell me a little bit about that week?
VCG: Yes, so I got the honor to work with SAF and they're the ones who coordinate this National Farmworker Awareness Week. Because before I started working with SAF, I used to work at the University of Idaho and the camp program there, the College Assistance Migrant Program, they used to host National Farmworker Awareness Week events. We would go all out. We would have a speaker come in and talk to the community about farmworker issues. Sometimes it would be a local speaker, like, somebody that works with farmworkers or somebody that came from a farmworker background. Now they're doing something else, like one time we brought in a local artist who actually came, and he's a very popular artist in the state of Idaho. And he actually worked in the fields with my parents, and his family worked in the fields with my parents, so that connection, you know, it was really nice to reconnect with him. And we did a paint night with him and we decided that not a lot of our students are . . . cómo se dice? . . . they're not used to being around art. And so this was a good reintroduction to, like, hey! You know, let’s talk about art. Now let's do a little painting. And so it was really, really successful. We had over 100 students that signed up. And we gave priority to students who came from a farmworker background first and then we opened it up to the community. And so it was really awesome. And so that one time we had him, and then another time we brought in Dolores Huerta, who's a very popular activist. She is the co-founder of The UFW and now she works with her own foundation, the Dolores Huerta Foundation, and so we brought her in as a speaker. And then we also had people from the UFW come and talk about immigration issues. So that was one thing that we did. We also did a Theater from the Field. So we did like a teatro campesino. So we, the students, you know, they reenacted a theater performance by Luis Valdés. And so it was interesting because they got to talk about the issues and a lot of people look forward to the theater performance. We also do a long sleeve shirt drive in which we asked the community to provide long sleeve shirts and then we donated them to the farmworker organization in Idaho. And then we also did a blood drive in honor of Sochez Chávez. And so we did a blood drive. And we also did a Voces del campo, Voices from the Fields. This is where we asked the community and people from the farmworker community to share a piece that they want us to share with the world with the community about farm work, you know, an experience working in the fields. Some of those were positive, some of those were not so positive. Some of those talked about discrimination, talked about sexual assault, talked about many things that happened, you know, in agricultural work. And so we kind of took that time so that they could share their voice and a lot of times the students would share their stories from their parents. So they’d ask their parents if they wanted to share something with them and the students would write it. And it was awesome because they got to at least - - get it out. But yeah, those are some of the things that we did. We also had entertainment. So we had a grupo come in, a musical group come in and perform, to end the week. Those are some of the things, and I think that the main goal is to raise awareness, you know, about farmworker issues so SAF does a really good job with their National Farmworker Awareness Week, because now that I'm working with SAF, I see how many campuses they reach, how many campuses we reach, and how many people are invested in, and I guess, in a way, taking farmworkers out of the shadows, because we as a society, we put farmworkers in the shadows, and so a lot of people who came to some of the events, they're like, “Oh, I never knew that farmworkers lived in housing such as that! I didn't know that farmworkers didn't have AC in their headquarters,” things like that, living quarters, sorry. And so a lot of people learn, you know, it's a way to raise awareness and also a way for people who come from the farmworker community to share their story if they feel comfortable.
SB: Thank you. Yeah. [00:26:54] What are the biggest challenges of this kind of work?
VCG: I think some of the biggest challenges is, you know, I talked earlier about Latino farmworkers, how society, we push them to the shadows. And that's, you know, driving through North Carolina, through some of the highways, some of the freeways, there's a lot of trees, as you know. And so when I was working with legal aid, you would just make a right turn and behind the trees there was this whole farmworker housing that people don't even know that behind those trees, there's farmworkers there who harvests the food that we eat every day. And so I think that one of the biggest challenges is trying to bring the farmworkers out of the shadows. But also, you know, a lot of organizations come in with, or a lot people and a lot of nonprofits come in with the approach of, like, I want to be the voice for farmworkers. But we need to share the mic. I heard this TED Talk from Mónica Ramírez. She's an awesome, awesome activist, farmworker activist and lawyer. She talked about sharing the mic, and I was like, that's what we need to do more as a society. I feel like at SAF we do a really great job with, you know, sharing the mic with our farmworkers, so any time that we talk about an event we always talk about - Can we get some youth to talk? Can we get a farmworker, if they feel comfortable to share their story? This week I had a reporter who called me and I asked one of our farmworker youth parents if they wanted to share their story with them. And she said yeah. And so I was like, okay. You can decide to do it anonymous, or you can share your first name. It's up to you. And so, you know, it's really important that we continue to share the mic and not just go out there with the “we need to change the law because we don't think farmworkers should live that way.” But we always need to go with the approach of: have we asked them what they want? Have we asked them if they want us to help them? You know, things like that. So, or empowered them, you know, I don't like to use the word help. Because I feel like we need to work alongside farmworkers. Like I said again, our name is Student Action with Farmworkers. So we need to continue that philosophy, that vision, that together we can create social change, but uplifting their voices is what we need to do.
SB: So, [00:29:05] the whole world has recently been thrown into wild circumstances with the spread of Covid-19 and regulations regarding social distancing. How is this affecting SAF?
VCG: Well, first of all, we all started working from home. I think that as soon as we started hearing, “we should probably not be working, or we should be working remotely,” our executive director was really good about - - Okay, we need to need to go home. We need to cancel all of our in-person meetings or events. And so we did that and I was a little sad because I had a lot planned for this spring with the students. We had college visits, we had in-person meetings, we had presentations from different organizations who provide services to families who come from a farmworker background, and so everything shifted from in-person to Zoom. So I had, I had a couple Zoom calls with my students and at first they were confused. And they were like, some of them were excited about Zoom and I was like, just wait till I call you almost every week [Laughter] and then you'll get, you know . . . No, but they adjusted pretty good through Zoom. Ever since this happened I've been calling my families on a weekly basis to see how they're doing, if they have access to food, if they have access to water. If they have access to paying the rent, things like that. And so every week, usually every Friday, I call the parents and talk to them. How they're doing, talk to the students about: how is your transition going on from going to school to now going through on online classes and stuff like that? And so, my intern, my solidaridad intern, Faviola, she's been talking to the students about that transition. And I talked to the youth. But I also talk more to the parents about, you know, have you lost your job, what do you need? I’ve been connecting them to food pantries, which all of our parents have gone to, to a food pantry. I've been connecting them to, I should say most of our parents, not all of them, but most of them have gone to a food pantry that I connected them to. I actually volunteer there, too, so I actually get to see them when I go and volunteer at a food pantry and then I also connected them to the school districts who have hot meals every day. You know, they know, but I'm trying to make sure that they, you know, did you know that you could go to school district? This is how you go: You just wait on the curve, they come to you, they provide the food and stuff. So I know some of our parents have benefited from that. And then some of our students didn't have access to a desktop or a laptop. I knew that we had some in our office that we didn't use. And so this was the best time to, you know, hand it to - - it was five students that got a desktop or a laptop from us. All of our students have, through the program, through the Levante Leadership Institute Program, all of our students have an iPad or a tablet. And they also have a hotspot that we at SAF, we pay for. So, this was really helpful because now that we go through like this online phase, I know that I can always reach them because they have a way to communicate with me. So, yeah, that's one of the things that I'm very thankful for — that I get to still be in communication with other farmworkers and with our community. A lot of them are still working, you know, which it can be a good thing, but also it can be a bad thing because I always ask them about how are they, how's your employer taking precautions? And so some of them say yes, we're doing a good job. Other say like, oh, they don't even tell us about it. And so I've been keeping up with them, and all of them are employed as of right now. Which is a good thing because they still have some sort of they have some income coming in, but then I'm also worried about Covid-19 and if they're going to be exposed to it, which I —hopefully, hopefully, no— they’re not exposed. [Interruption] And then I talked to some of the youth and have some youth who actually work full time right now. So, since they shifted to online, they actually go and work full time. And some of them say that their employers given time off to go online to the class session. And then they come back and work. And so I talked to the students about Covid-19 and how are they feeling and one of them said, like, well, people tell us that we shouldn't be working, but we need to work, we need to provide for our families. That's not a question. Then I understand that two hours. I know I'm not telling you not to work. I'm just telling you, like, be careful. Take precautions. If you don't need to leave your house, don't leave. Think about your families, if they're sick, you know, like we can we can slow this down, this whole Covid-19 from spreading. And so, but yeah, some of our students are like, if we don't work, there's no income for our families.
SB: So, [00:33:41] when you call and check in on them every week, what is your sense of how the transition is going for the parents and the students, or is the transition going differently for each of them?
VCG: I think the transition is going different for each of them. I have some parents who have students who are seniors in high school. And so they're not that concerned because - - or students actually have some online classes, so they easily adjusted to it. But then I have some parents who their students that have never had an online class. Excuse me, and they feel like their students are stressing or they take a little bit longer to understand. And so, you know, that's why I also talk to the youth, or our intern talks to the youth to see how they're handling it. And so I feel like it's different for some parents. Some of them are worried that their students say that they don't have any homework, which I strongly don't believe. And so I follow up with the students. And I'm like, Okay. Have you checked your email, you know, have you checked your Google classroom? Do you want me to call your teachers? Because I can call your teachers or email them and so like, you know, that's how I work with them, you know, we're a little bit more like a - - we're a program that's a little bit more intrusive. And I think that's the best way to describe it, because we’re actually there and, talking to the families, talking to the youth. You know, the parents are really comfortable sharing what's going on. The students, too. And so we try to find services for them. Some of our students have mentioned that they need mental health support or advocates to talk to them. And so we have made that connection with those folks, too. So it's I think it's been different. For some families say that we're good, nothing's going on too bad. The students are understanding their homework, but some of the families are like, you know, we need support in this area, or that area. So it's a little bit mixed.
SB: [00:35:30] When you talk to the students who have gone to a full time work schedule while they're also doing online classes, what are they saying about that? Do they feel like they're able to keep up with work and school, or have they given any feedback about that?
VCG: Well, I spoke to all of my seniors and they're the ones who are mostly working either full time or part time. And so some of them have said that it’s good. You know, I'm used to it, you know. And then there's a few who are struggling, especially with math. And that's, I think, one of the areas that our students who come from a Latino background or a farmworker background, that's one of the areas that they struggle with the most that I have seen personally working with farmworker youth. So I think I just let them know that their homework is first, that making sure that they can readjust their work schedule a little bit more. If it's affecting their schoolwork, then I strongly encourage them to do so, but I feel like a lot of — some of them— are struggling a little bit more with, especially with math.
SB: [00:36:35] You mentioned that you've directed your families to food pantries. What are some other resources that might be available to farmworkers during this time that would be helpful?
VCG: I think one of the things that yes, we directed them to food pantries, or food banks, or their school district for hot meals every day. I think, like I mentioned before, some of our youth parents are undocumented - - one or both. And so they don't benefit from all this federal aid that's going out to a lot of people, a lot of folks. And so one of the things that we've been trying to look for is like some financial support, you know. I think El Centro Hispano provides that financial support to families who are in need. And so, connecting them to those financial resources. Because one thing is telling them, giving them information about Covid-19, which I have, but I think our families, what they really need is, what are some of the resources, what are some of the direct resources that are going to benefit us right now. And so that's why I found the food pantry, which is through the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry and done and see. They're awesome to work with. I volunteer with them all the time, I work with them all the time. That's where we actually have our youth meetings when I go and visit because I go and have in-person meetings with them— well, before this whole thing happened. And we have in-person meetings at the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. And so, I think just more resources where they can actually get some access to food. Food that is culturally appropriate, you know, for the families - - food that they will eat, and also which the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry does a really good job with that. And then also, resources, and I know we're trying to see if there's any financial resources that we can provide at SAF in the future, for our farmworker community.
SB: [00:38:28] You mentioned financial and access to food are two challenges that farmworkers are facing during this time of Covid-19. Are there any other challenges that you have seen at the forefront during this time?
VCG: I think of maybe not specifically to Covid-19 but I feel like a lot of times, you know, with immigration reform. That's another thing that our families always talk about, you know, they hear from the news. Is it true that they're trying to pass legislation that would benefit people who come from farmworker backgrounds? I have to come back and talked to lawyers and then give them the good information. So I think a lot of times it's like, with immigration, I think reform. I think a lot of families are trying to see, you know, is if there's any immigration or relief or anything that would support them, at this time. And so hopefully I think within the next couple months, you know, people, as they see farmworkers essential, they start seeing that yes, of course, farmworkers have always been essential in our communities in our country. Without them, there's no food in our stores, on our tables. But I feel like, hopefully, you know, with this whole thing, it helps Americans see that, you know, we need to provide immigration relief or an immigration reform for not just farmworkers but everyone who is on the same boat. But I think with farmworkers, we really continue to oppress them, you know, so yes.
SB: [00:40:06] So how can people, even in this time of maintaining social distance, get involved and help some of these efforts initiated by SAF?
VCG: So one of the things that SAF is doing right now is that we are a part of this coalition called the Farmworker Advocacy Network, and this is a group of farmworker services organizations, so they provide direct services or they advocate for farmworkers. So, for example, we have the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry on there. We have Legal Aid Farmworker Unit on there. We have the Farmworkers Project, Student Action with Farmworkers, Toxic Free NC, so many, many of the different nonprofits that provided advocacy or direct services to farmworkers. So FAN, they’re actually doing a petition, asking Governor Cooper to actually not forget about foreign workers, you know, to protect farmworkers. And so we came up with this petition that we have, we're asking folks to sign. So that's one way to give back or to take action. Right now, we also sent a letter to Governor Cooper and we did get a response, or we're in the middle of getting a response, from them. But I think the petition is going to help amplify, you know, what are we asking. And some of the things that we're asking is making sure that farmworkers have access to health care, making sure that the their employers are providing good information or providing protection, but they're taking precaution, you know, pretty much what we're asking for everyone that farmworkers actually are getting the same, you know, we know that most of the time, that's not the case. And so, that's one of the ways to send one of the petitions. We actually have signed onto other petitions from the UFW, from other organizations in Florida. For example, the McCauly Coalition of Farmworkers and so, we're pretty much just - - one way to take action is to sign on to petitions. And donate, you know, donate to the different organizations that are providing direct services. You can donate to SAF, you can donate to the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. They need money for their food pantry. Because, yes, the food bank delivers food, but last time they didn't have any food, as you know, we're probably running out of food and the food banks. So we need money to directly buy food. You know, last time when I volunteered with them, we went to Walmart and bought all of their potatoes, all of their oil, all of their tortillas, all of their - - what else did we, why we bought a lot of stuff. And so this is the food that our local community will actually, you know, that's culturally appropriate that they will eat. And so I think providing financial resources, either to people that would provide food for farmworkers, or people that would provide direct funds to farmworkers to pay rent. That’s what our community is worried about. So we don't have a job - - how do we pay for rent? How do we buy food? How do we pay the bills? So I think those are some of the - - two ways - - that you know the community can actually, you know, benefit. And actually, sending a letter or sending an email to your representative, you know, asking them to step it up. It's not just the governor, you know, they have the power to step it up and provide protections for farmworkers. So, just a simple email: like, hey, I live in your district. Please don't forget to support farmworkers or to keep farmworkers in mind when talking about legislation. We're talking about financial support because we're all in the same boat, and farmworkers are the ones that are on the, you know, I guess you can see on a worse boat. Yeah.
SB: Well, thank you so much for all of all of this information and resources. [00:43:45] Those are the questions I have - - is there anything, additionally, that you would like to share?
VCG: I think it's just when talking about farmworkers, we need to, of course, uplift their voices but you can also do your, your little- - you can support by sharing, just talking about it, you can go to our page, our website, and there's a lot of educational resources on there. If you go to the Farmworker Advocacy Network website, there's a lot of organizations. Once this is over, or you can also reach out to them right now. If you feel like you want to reach out to Toxic Free NC and be like: Hey, how can we support right now? They have a lot of things that you could do if you reach out to the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. How can we provide support? They'll let you know how. So making sure that you go out of your way, out of your personal life, out of your, you know, quarantine life and actually do some research, you know, and then share it with your family with your friends. Be like: Hey, I learned about this new organization. Can you donate with me? Let's donate twenty dollars to them. Let’s donate one hundred dollars to them, or let's sign on this sign on to this petition, you know, let's email our congressperson right now and asked them to keep farmworkers in mind when coming up with new legislation. I feel like just reaching out, learning, and sharing, sharing the, I guess in a way, sharing the knowledge that you learned from all of these folks that are doing awesome work. It's not just SAF. It's all of these other statewide organizations that are doing a lot, risking their lives, like the speaker Episcopal Farmworker Ministry, all of their staff is pretty much in the way, you can say risking their lives, you know, but we do it because we care. We care about the community. Last time we did the food pantry, we had a line of about - - over two miles. And so we had people and you know, that's good. But at the same time we're thinking like, whoa, like this is really, you know, affecting our community. You know if this is how they rely to get food on their tables, then we're doing something wrong. You know, we're doing something wrong, as a society, we're doing something wrong as a state. We're doing something wrong as a nation. Because those people that provide, that harvest the food— they don't have any food on their tables left when it comes to harsh or difficult times. So I guess just share the knowledge.
SB: Victor, thank you so much for taking time today to share your knowledge and experiences with us. I really appreciate it.
VCG: No, No. Thank you, Sarah, for willing to talk to us and, you know, you are part of the people that are actually going to help us reach more people. And the reason why I accepted to do this interview was because I know that other people will hear this. And that this might be the first time that they hear about farmworkers that they hear about, you know, our community or nonprofits that are actually doing something, you know, for community.
SB: Great. Well, thank you again, and stay safe.
VCG: Thank you, you too. Bye-bye.
SB: Bye. [00:46:35] END OF INTERVIEW Transcriber: Sarah Blanton Interview Date: April 17, 2020
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Organizadores comunitarios
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Temas
Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Trabajo y empleo; Activismo; Comunidades receptoras
Es: Transcripción
Sarah Blanton: All right, let's get started. My name is Sarah Blanton, and today I'm interviewing Victor Canales Gamiño, the youth organizing director with Student Action with Farmworkers. We are doing this interview on Zoom due to the current crisis of Covid-19 and social distancing measures. I am at my home in Yanceyville, North Carolina, and I am talking with Victor, who is currently in Durham. The date is April 17th, 2020, and it is 11:58 AM. Victor, thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Victor Canales Gamiño: Thank you so much, Sarah, for allowing us to share our story and share about what our organization does.
SB: Great. [00:00:52] Well, Victor, can you tell me a little bit about yourself, just introduce yourself and tell me where you're from?
VCG: Yeah. So, yeah, Sarah, I was - - My name is Victor Canales Gamiño. Where I'm from? That's a good question [laughter]. I was, if you ask me where I was born, I was born in México, in Guanajuato, México, and when I was eight years old, we migrated to Idaho. If you're talking about culture shock, Idaho is culture shock for me. And so it was interesting because we first started, and we first stopped in Phoenix, Arizona, and I was like, oh, this is like Mexico. I see a lot of Latinos. This is awesome. And then my Dad said, nope, we're actually moving up north and I, we, landed in Idaho. This average sized town, Mountain Home, Idaho, and we lived in a small little apartment and it was ten of us in my household. So, for me, was so different. So it was a culture shock. I did not like pizza. I hated hamburgers. I wanted to eat lots of yummy food that my mom and my grandma made in México. And so it was a little bit different for me. So, I grew up in Idaho since I was eight years old. I be. That's where I did all my education, and so, yeah.
SB: Wow. Which food did you miss the most?
VCG: Nopales, which in English you can translate it to maybe cacti or cactus. Yeah.
SB: Sounds good. So, [00:02:29] how did you begin working with farmworkers? What drew you to this occupation?
VCG: So, growing up in México, I come from a family of farmers; they used to farm their own lands. They had their own ejidos, which was land that was given to them by the Mexican government after the Mexican Revolution. And so my grandparents, both of them farmed. So I would go help them out, you know, in their fields, in their plots of fields. And it wasn't until I was eight years old that we decided to come to the US. We came here without any documents so I wasn't documented and I almost lost my life crossing the Río Grande. It was interesting because my dad did petition for us to get our permanent resident cards but Immigration said, “Bring your family” and my dad said, “Do I need a visa for that?” And they said, “Nope, just bring them however you want.” Pretty much. And that was so wrong, the way they did it. So my dad said, “Okay, I'll bring them over.” And so I had to cross the Río Grande. And so, I came to Idaho and then that's what my dad did in Idaho: He was a farmworker. Oftentimes I would wonder what my dad did in the US because he would send us money so that we could, you know, eat and provide for the whole family. But, you know, the conversion from dollars to pesos is like, whoa, like— my dad's doing something awesome, you know, and so I want to go and do the same thing. So we decided that when we got to Idaho, we were all going to work in the fields. I was like, yes! I'm going to work in the fields. One of the reasons why I wanted to work was because I told my other cousin that I would buy him a truck. And so I had to work now [laughter] and I started working in the fields and that was not a place for a child to be at. And, so, it was super-hot. I wanted to be playing with my friends, with the new friends I made, and I was working like a normal adult, same hours doing the same type of work. So, for me was a little bit hard. It really did hit me hard. And so that's how I started working in actual farm work. You asked, how did I began working with farmworkers? Well, I come from a farmworker background. So, the first time I started working with farmworkers was when I decided to go to college. And this one recruiter came to my high school. His name is Jesse Martínez from the University of Idaho, and he talked about his experience about working in the fields about going to college; he graduated from college. Now he's working for the university. And I saw myself in that -- in him. And I was like, whoa, if he did it, I can do it too. And so I asked him, how do I do it? And he said, well, all you have to do is follow my instructions. I don't promise you that you're going to get admitted to an institution, but I'm going to help you along the way. And I believed him. And I followed every single step. He's like, now you have to do the FAFSA. This is how you do the FAFSA. Now you have to apply, this is how you apply to the University of Idaho. Can you fax me this document? And I remember that sometimes we didn't have enough money to even fax, you know, documents. I would be asking my mom and she'd be like, “Oh, I found some quarters! Let's go fax them, let's go to the store.” And so, it was little by little that I got to college. And so, I - - The program that Jesse Martínez worked in, it was called the College Assistance Migrant Program. It was a federal program designated to help students who come from a farmworker background. They created this family away from home. They supported me financially, socially, culturally; it was the best program ever. And they introduced me to a Student Action with Farmworkers. They're like, hey, there's this internship, you know, we always get some students that get to go to North Carolina and do an internship and work with farmworkers. I was like, yep! I'm down. I talked to other alumni on campus who had gone through the internship and they always recommended it 100%. And so I applied. I didn't get admitted the first time. And I was so bummed out. But then I applied again and then I got in. Because that meant that if I didn't go to the internship, I would go back to work in the fields, which I did every summer of my college breaks or vacations. I got the internship in 2011. I was a junior in college, and it totally, you know - - it changed my life. I worked with legal aid and I worked with their farmworker unit. And so, my job was to go in visit labor camps, talk to the farmworkers, tell them about their rights. But I think what I like the most about doing outreach was that I got to talk to workers, you know, that's my favorite part. You know, sometimes I would go there and I wouldn't even tell them about legal stuff, you know? Let's just get to know the workers. Let's just talk to them and see what their life is like, because they would go on and talk about their families back in México, their daughters’ quinceañeras, or just tell us their story of why they're there, working in the fields. Throughout time they would gain confianza or confidence. You know, they would start talking to us about what's going on. But I think my goal was always, I'm going to go and talk to them about their lives, our lives, and that's it. And then if they bring anything up, then I can tell them, like, “Hey, you know, these are your rights under the law and stuff like that.” So that's how I started working with SAF as an intern. And a little bit after being an intern, I graduated from college and Legal Aid, The Farmworker Unit, they actually hired me as one of their paralegals, so I worked with them for a year. I did the internship there with SAF and then they actually hired me to work for them as a paralegal. And then a couple years, a year after that, the camp program where I was a student, or scholar, they had the recruitment position open. So I decided to apply and I became the recruiter. I was there for about five years. I was I was now the one going to the high schools, talking to the students, sharing my story. And in a way, I was giving back. You know, to a program that gave so much to me. I worked there from 2014 to 2019, so I've been with SAF for about seven or eight months now.
SB: Wow, that is, that's an incredible story. So, I am wondering-- [00:09:17] You said that it sounds like something that ties what you do together is your love of connecting with people. Do you have any particular memories or stories, either with the high schoolers or with the farmworkers that you want to share?
VCG: Yes, so I had a story about when I was recruiting with the College Assistance Migrant Program at the University of Idaho. I would go visit many high schools, and Idaho is an agricultural state, so we have a lot of farmworkers. One of the biggest differences between farmworkers in North Carolina and Idaho is that in North Carolina, there's a lot of migrants, which means that they move throughout the year to find to find work in agriculture, either in North Carolina or New Jersey, Michigan, you know, they're migrating. North Carolina may not be their permanent home. In Idaho, there's a lot of seasonal farmworkers, which means that we, the people that work there, they live within the same community for the most part. I mean, we do still have migrant farmworkers, but the most farmworkers that we have are the ones that actually live in the state or in the community where they do the agricultural work. My job was to visit high schools where there was a lot of agricultural activity, and I went to this one high school at Burley High School. I reached out to the counselor and I asked him, can I meet with some of your students who work in agriculture? And he said, yeah, that's fine. You can come and be with them and I went there. I went to the high school I gave out my presentation. And a lot of the students that were talking to me, I realized that when we had the one-on-one talks, they were like the students who were doing pretty good academically, like – 4.0, 3.9, 3.8. And I was like, oh, okay, because I usually ask to meet with any student who's interested in college, no matter if it's going to be at a different university. I just said any student who comes from this background and who wants to go to college, or maybe they don't know much of what college is like. So I did my presentation, and then I packed everything, and I was on my way out. Outside the door, I see one of my students sitting there from the high school outside my door and he approached me. He's like, hey, are you Victor? And I was like, yeah. Nice to meet you. He's like, hey, I heard that you were coming. I was like, yeah, why weren't you in there? He’s like, oh, my counselor didn't tell me. And I asked him, what do you mean? I told him that, you know, to invite everyone who was interested. He said, I know he didn't invite me. So, as we were talking, I realized that he was a student who was not academically advanced, and so I got so upset. I was like, what?! I wanted to talk to everyone. I was like, I have time to talk to you. I can talk to you right now. He's like, yeah, let's talk. And so we started talking. He worked at a dairy. He worked full time at a dairy. He went to school. And so he was one of the primary breadwinners in his family. And so he's like, that's why I'm not doing well academically. And I was like, no, that's fine. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not judging you, I'm just trying to see what's going on in your situation. And then I told him, hey, do you want to go to college? He's like, yeah. And I said the same thing that Jesse Martínez told me before. I was like, just follow what I'm telling you. I don't promise you that you are going to get admitted, you know, we're going to try. If you don't get admitted, we're going to appeal and then we'll go from there. So just follow my instructions. And he did. He followed all my instructions. He didn't get admitted because he did not meet the GPA requirement, but I told him to appeal, how to write a letter, I reviewed his letter. He submitted it, he submitted references, and he got in. And so for me was like, whoa, like, you know, these, these are the students that we want to help, you know - - yes. We're going to help any student regardless of if they’re doing really good or not. But students who had like las ganas, you know, the ganas factor, you know - - the will to succeed, the will to commit, to continue. And in college, this student became a student senator, he traveled abroad to Spain, and he keeps saying, thank you, Victor, this is all to you. And I was like, no, this is all thanks to you, you know, it's your work. You know, I was just, I was just there along the way to do to help. And he's like, you know, I'm glad that I stayed after your presentation because it totally has changed my life. And so, for me, that's one of the stories that I always tell because a lot of people think that oh, I have to have a high GPA to go to college. No! I was like, my GPA was not even a 3.0 when I applied to the University of Idaho and I barely got admitted, but as long as you have ganas, you know, there's always a way. But that's a story that I will share because that's the type of student that really need the programs that we provide at the federal level or at the state level or within the universities.
SB: Wow, that's, that's a beautiful story. And that was when you were working in recruitment with Student Action with Farmworkers.
VCG: Yes, that is correct.
SB: So [00:14:14] what is your role now?
VCG: My role now, I am the youth organizing director with Student Action with Farmworkers, SAF. We have many different programs. We have a college Into the Fields internship program. That's the one that I did as a student. They provide an internship to students from nationwide who are interested in working alongside with farmworkers. And so what they do is that we bring all these students, about twenty to twenty-five students. And then we provide them to work with an organization that directly provides services to farmworkers - - either a health clinic, legal aid, a migrant education program with the school district - - so those are some of the areas where we placed interns. We have another group. It's a high school youth group and it's called the Levante Leadership Institute, and I am the one who coordinates that program. I work with high school youth who come from a farmworker background. And I also provide services, not just to the youth, but also to the families. So, we provide educational information, we provide information about how to advocate for your own community. We empower them not only in the educational, like, let's go to college, but also like, what are the issues that affect the community? How can you as a student, as a person from this community, empower your community? So we teach them how to advocate, how to lobby, how to protest. All of those things. I have the honor to work alongside with the youth.
SB: Wonderful. So, [00:16:04] with Student Action with Farmworkers, your role specifically looks at the youth. What other kinds of things does this organization do?
VCG: We provide a lot of - - I think Student Action with Farmworkers, you know, what we do is pretty much in the name. We bring students and farmworkers together so that they can create social change and justice within the agricultural system. We do that with working with students from different campuses, working with the community, providing information. Advocating. You know, how can we advocate for farmworkers. We provide a lot of trainings, we visit different universities. We provide trainings or information to churches. If there's a petition going on, if there's a bill that we support, we ask people to support it with us, sign onto the petition, sign onto the bill. We have a lobbyist, (person’s name?), and this lobbyist is at the state assembly in North Carolina, speaking on behalf of SAF and other nonprofits about farmworker issues, support this bill, or don't support this bill because it's detrimental to farmworkers, you know, and their lives. And so that's one of the things that we do in that program. My colleague Bianca works on that. It's called From the Ground Up. And so she's in charge of actually coordinating also like National Farmworker Awareness Week. So pretty much, getting the word out to the community, to people who might not know about farmworkers, and then she also provides information on how to support, how to take action. Do you want to go on a on a protest with us? Do you want to sign this petition? Do you want us to go to your school and talk about our programs? And so that's one of the ways that we do it. We also have the Into the Fields like I said, internship and fellowship. The internship is ten weeks, the fellowship is six months. And pretty much the internship is where we place the students in different areas: health, migrant education, legal aid, and lobbying, or with a lobbyist. Those are the different areas where we place students and then the fellowship is mostly working with health agencies and they're there for six months because we want them to be there for the whole season where farmworkers are working. It's not just ten weeks, they're actually there for the whole summer, and then a little bit more into October and November when it, when it all quiets down. We also have a Solidaridad Internship and this is an academic year internship for college students. And usually what we do is we get about five or six interns from the different campuses in the triangle. So that includes Durham, Chapel Hill, and Raleigh, and so Duke University, Chapel Hill-UNC, NC State. We get interns from there and they work with our programs with our individual programs. I get one student who works with me and with the Levante Leadership Institute. And pretty much they accompany me, they help me create campus visits, they do their own workshops that we coordinate. We invite the parents to the monthly meetings. We have monthly meetings with the students. And we have a session for students. And then we have a session for parents. Sometimes they're combined. But then in one of the sessions, my intern, my solidaridad intern might be talking to the students. And then I may be talking to the parents. We also have guests that come to our meetings. A lot of times the intern is the one who coordinates, who comes to our meetings, who gets to talk to our parents. We provide a lot of services to our parents. One of the parents in our youth group, they were affected by scam calls who actually, you know, call and take your money away. So one of our families was affected by that. So we invited the Better Business Bureau to talk to them about, you know, what are some of the current scams going on? How do you react to those, you know, how do you report those calls, and things like that. We also talk about healthy eating habits. Some of the parents talk about - - So we asked the parents, what do you want to learn about? Some of them say immigration. Can you bring in a lawyer to talk to us? Can you can talk about healthy eating habits? So, we pretty much work with the youth and with the parents together. We don't come with approach, like, hey, this is what we're going to do. We actually talk to them. What are the needs that the community has? And so, pretty much, my solidaridad intern is pretty much-- like I say that she's like my co-director-- because, pretty much, that's what we do. And so, we have the Into the Fields internship, we have the fellowship, we have the solidaridad internship, and then we also have the From the Ground Up, which is a lot of the advocating, the lobbying, the take action part of SAF. Yes.
SB: Wow. So, [00:21:02] for the guests that come and talk to the parents and the students, that's always kind of a directive from the people? You ask them what they want to hear about, and then you find guests to come in?
VCG: Yes, so we usually ask the parents like when I started working with SAF, I asked them, so, what are some of the needs? What are some of the things that are going on? I'm new to the program, so just let me know what's going on. And a lot of times they're like, hey, like we like to hear about immigration stuff because a lot of our parents are undocumented. And so they're like from mixed status families. So, I’m not going to say all of them, but they're from mixed status families. So, that's one of the biggest things they want to learn about is, you know, and then also education. How do we get our students to go on? What are some of the resources? How can you lead us throughout the way because a lot of times they say that their students don't share that with them like they did. The students might learn about FAFSA, but they don't go home and tell them, like, oh, I did the FAFSA. This is what it is. And a lot of times, the parents say, like what we always say it's like, okay, m’hijo, m’hija, we support you, but they also want to learn. So, I go with them, and follow the whole process with them. Okay— This is what the FAFSA looks like. This is what you need to do. This is what they're going to ask you. If you go through the verification process on the FAFSA, don't get scared. It's normal. They're going to probably ask you to get a transcript, a tax transcript, from the IRS. That's completely normal. I can help you with that, too. So, pretty much, it's like a community approach.
SB: Okay, great. And so [00:22:30] Student Action with Farmworkers hosts a National Farmworker Awareness Week, which occurs at the end of March. Can you tell me a little bit about that week?
VCG: Yes, so I got the honor to work with SAF and they're the ones who coordinate this National Farmworker Awareness Week. Because before I started working with SAF, I used to work at the University of Idaho and the camp program there, the College Assistance Migrant Program, they used to host National Farmworker Awareness Week events. We would go all out. We would have a speaker come in and talk to the community about farmworker issues. Sometimes it would be a local speaker, like, somebody that works with farmworkers or somebody that came from a farmworker background. Now they're doing something else, like one time we brought in a local artist who actually came, and he's a very popular artist in the state of Idaho. And he actually worked in the fields with my parents, and his family worked in the fields with my parents, so that connection, you know, it was really nice to reconnect with him. And we did a paint night with him and we decided that not a lot of our students are . . . cómo se dice? . . . they're not used to being around art. And so this was a good reintroduction to, like, hey! You know, let’s talk about art. Now let's do a little painting. And so it was really, really successful. We had over 100 students that signed up. And we gave priority to students who came from a farmworker background first and then we opened it up to the community. And so it was really awesome. And so that one time we had him, and then another time we brought in Dolores Huerta, who's a very popular activist. She is the co-founder of The UFW and now she works with her own foundation, the Dolores Huerta Foundation, and so we brought her in as a speaker. And then we also had people from the UFW come and talk about immigration issues. So that was one thing that we did. We also did a Theater from the Field. So we did like a teatro campesino. So we, the students, you know, they reenacted a theater performance by Luis Valdés. And so it was interesting because they got to talk about the issues and a lot of people look forward to the theater performance. We also do a long sleeve shirt drive in which we asked the community to provide long sleeve shirts and then we donated them to the farmworker organization in Idaho. And then we also did a blood drive in honor of Sochez Chávez. And so we did a blood drive. And we also did a Voces del campo, Voices from the Fields. This is where we asked the community and people from the farmworker community to share a piece that they want us to share with the world with the community about farm work, you know, an experience working in the fields. Some of those were positive, some of those were not so positive. Some of those talked about discrimination, talked about sexual assault, talked about many things that happened, you know, in agricultural work. And so we kind of took that time so that they could share their voice and a lot of times the students would share their stories from their parents. So they’d ask their parents if they wanted to share something with them and the students would write it. And it was awesome because they got to at least - - get it out. But yeah, those are some of the things that we did. We also had entertainment. So we had a grupo come in, a musical group come in and perform, to end the week. Those are some of the things, and I think that the main goal is to raise awareness, you know, about farmworker issues so SAF does a really good job with their National Farmworker Awareness Week, because now that I'm working with SAF, I see how many campuses they reach, how many campuses we reach, and how many people are invested in, and I guess, in a way, taking farmworkers out of the shadows, because we as a society, we put farmworkers in the shadows, and so a lot of people who came to some of the events, they're like, “Oh, I never knew that farmworkers lived in housing such as that! I didn't know that farmworkers didn't have AC in their headquarters,” things like that, living quarters, sorry. And so a lot of people learn, you know, it's a way to raise awareness and also a way for people who come from the farmworker community to share their story if they feel comfortable.
SB: Thank you. Yeah. [00:26:54] What are the biggest challenges of this kind of work?
VCG: I think some of the biggest challenges is, you know, I talked earlier about Latino farmworkers, how society, we push them to the shadows. And that's, you know, driving through North Carolina, through some of the highways, some of the freeways, there's a lot of trees, as you know. And so when I was working with legal aid, you would just make a right turn and behind the trees there was this whole farmworker housing that people don't even know that behind those trees, there's farmworkers there who harvests the food that we eat every day. And so I think that one of the biggest challenges is trying to bring the farmworkers out of the shadows. But also, you know, a lot of organizations come in with, or a lot people and a lot of nonprofits come in with the approach of, like, I want to be the voice for farmworkers. But we need to share the mic. I heard this TED Talk from Mónica Ramírez. She's an awesome, awesome activist, farmworker activist and lawyer. She talked about sharing the mic, and I was like, that's what we need to do more as a society. I feel like at SAF we do a really great job with, you know, sharing the mic with our farmworkers, so any time that we talk about an event we always talk about - Can we get some youth to talk? Can we get a farmworker, if they feel comfortable to share their story? This week I had a reporter who called me and I asked one of our farmworker youth parents if they wanted to share their story with them. And she said yeah. And so I was like, okay. You can decide to do it anonymous, or you can share your first name. It's up to you. And so, you know, it's really important that we continue to share the mic and not just go out there with the “we need to change the law because we don't think farmworkers should live that way.” But we always need to go with the approach of: have we asked them what they want? Have we asked them if they want us to help them? You know, things like that. So, or empowered them, you know, I don't like to use the word help. Because I feel like we need to work alongside farmworkers. Like I said again, our name is Student Action with Farmworkers. So we need to continue that philosophy, that vision, that together we can create social change, but uplifting their voices is what we need to do.
SB: So, [00:29:05] the whole world has recently been thrown into wild circumstances with the spread of Covid-19 and regulations regarding social distancing. How is this affecting SAF?
VCG: Well, first of all, we all started working from home. I think that as soon as we started hearing, “we should probably not be working, or we should be working remotely,” our executive director was really good about - - Okay, we need to need to go home. We need to cancel all of our in-person meetings or events. And so we did that and I was a little sad because I had a lot planned for this spring with the students. We had college visits, we had in-person meetings, we had presentations from different organizations who provide services to families who come from a farmworker background, and so everything shifted from in-person to Zoom. So I had, I had a couple Zoom calls with my students and at first they were confused. And they were like, some of them were excited about Zoom and I was like, just wait till I call you almost every week [Laughter] and then you'll get, you know . . . No, but they adjusted pretty good through Zoom. Ever since this happened I've been calling my families on a weekly basis to see how they're doing, if they have access to food, if they have access to water. If they have access to paying the rent, things like that. And so every week, usually every Friday, I call the parents and talk to them. How they're doing, talk to the students about: how is your transition going on from going to school to now going through on online classes and stuff like that? And so, my intern, my solidaridad intern, Faviola, she's been talking to the students about that transition. And I talked to the youth. But I also talk more to the parents about, you know, have you lost your job, what do you need? I’ve been connecting them to food pantries, which all of our parents have gone to, to a food pantry. I've been connecting them to, I should say most of our parents, not all of them, but most of them have gone to a food pantry that I connected them to. I actually volunteer there, too, so I actually get to see them when I go and volunteer at a food pantry and then I also connected them to the school districts who have hot meals every day. You know, they know, but I'm trying to make sure that they, you know, did you know that you could go to school district? This is how you go: You just wait on the curve, they come to you, they provide the food and stuff. So I know some of our parents have benefited from that. And then some of our students didn't have access to a desktop or a laptop. I knew that we had some in our office that we didn't use. And so this was the best time to, you know, hand it to - - it was five students that got a desktop or a laptop from us. All of our students have, through the program, through the Levante Leadership Institute Program, all of our students have an iPad or a tablet. And they also have a hotspot that we at SAF, we pay for. So, this was really helpful because now that we go through like this online phase, I know that I can always reach them because they have a way to communicate with me. So, yeah, that's one of the things that I'm very thankful for — that I get to still be in communication with other farmworkers and with our community. A lot of them are still working, you know, which it can be a good thing, but also it can be a bad thing because I always ask them about how are they, how's your employer taking precautions? And so some of them say yes, we're doing a good job. Other say like, oh, they don't even tell us about it. And so I've been keeping up with them, and all of them are employed as of right now. Which is a good thing because they still have some sort of they have some income coming in, but then I'm also worried about Covid-19 and if they're going to be exposed to it, which I —hopefully, hopefully, no— they’re not exposed. [Interruption] And then I talked to some of the youth and have some youth who actually work full time right now. So, since they shifted to online, they actually go and work full time. And some of them say that their employers given time off to go online to the class session. And then they come back and work. And so I talked to the students about Covid-19 and how are they feeling and one of them said, like, well, people tell us that we shouldn't be working, but we need to work, we need to provide for our families. That's not a question. Then I understand that two hours. I know I'm not telling you not to work. I'm just telling you, like, be careful. Take precautions. If you don't need to leave your house, don't leave. Think about your families, if they're sick, you know, like we can we can slow this down, this whole Covid-19 from spreading. And so, but yeah, some of our students are like, if we don't work, there's no income for our families.
SB: So, [00:33:41] when you call and check in on them every week, what is your sense of how the transition is going for the parents and the students, or is the transition going differently for each of them?
VCG: I think the transition is going different for each of them. I have some parents who have students who are seniors in high school. And so they're not that concerned because - - or students actually have some online classes, so they easily adjusted to it. But then I have some parents who their students that have never had an online class. Excuse me, and they feel like their students are stressing or they take a little bit longer to understand. And so, you know, that's why I also talk to the youth, or our intern talks to the youth to see how they're handling it. And so I feel like it's different for some parents. Some of them are worried that their students say that they don't have any homework, which I strongly don't believe. And so I follow up with the students. And I'm like, Okay. Have you checked your email, you know, have you checked your Google classroom? Do you want me to call your teachers? Because I can call your teachers or email them and so like, you know, that's how I work with them, you know, we're a little bit more like a - - we're a program that's a little bit more intrusive. And I think that's the best way to describe it, because we’re actually there and, talking to the families, talking to the youth. You know, the parents are really comfortable sharing what's going on. The students, too. And so we try to find services for them. Some of our students have mentioned that they need mental health support or advocates to talk to them. And so we have made that connection with those folks, too. So it's I think it's been different. For some families say that we're good, nothing's going on too bad. The students are understanding their homework, but some of the families are like, you know, we need support in this area, or that area. So it's a little bit mixed.
SB: [00:35:30] When you talk to the students who have gone to a full time work schedule while they're also doing online classes, what are they saying about that? Do they feel like they're able to keep up with work and school, or have they given any feedback about that?
VCG: Well, I spoke to all of my seniors and they're the ones who are mostly working either full time or part time. And so some of them have said that it’s good. You know, I'm used to it, you know. And then there's a few who are struggling, especially with math. And that's, I think, one of the areas that our students who come from a Latino background or a farmworker background, that's one of the areas that they struggle with the most that I have seen personally working with farmworker youth. So I think I just let them know that their homework is first, that making sure that they can readjust their work schedule a little bit more. If it's affecting their schoolwork, then I strongly encourage them to do so, but I feel like a lot of — some of them— are struggling a little bit more with, especially with math.
SB: [00:36:35] You mentioned that you've directed your families to food pantries. What are some other resources that might be available to farmworkers during this time that would be helpful?
VCG: I think one of the things that yes, we directed them to food pantries, or food banks, or their school district for hot meals every day. I think, like I mentioned before, some of our youth parents are undocumented - - one or both. And so they don't benefit from all this federal aid that's going out to a lot of people, a lot of folks. And so one of the things that we've been trying to look for is like some financial support, you know. I think El Centro Hispano provides that financial support to families who are in need. And so, connecting them to those financial resources. Because one thing is telling them, giving them information about Covid-19, which I have, but I think our families, what they really need is, what are some of the resources, what are some of the direct resources that are going to benefit us right now. And so that's why I found the food pantry, which is through the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry and done and see. They're awesome to work with. I volunteer with them all the time, I work with them all the time. That's where we actually have our youth meetings when I go and visit because I go and have in-person meetings with them— well, before this whole thing happened. And we have in-person meetings at the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. And so, I think just more resources where they can actually get some access to food. Food that is culturally appropriate, you know, for the families - - food that they will eat, and also which the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry does a really good job with that. And then also, resources, and I know we're trying to see if there's any financial resources that we can provide at SAF in the future, for our farmworker community.
SB: [00:38:28] You mentioned financial and access to food are two challenges that farmworkers are facing during this time of Covid-19. Are there any other challenges that you have seen at the forefront during this time?
VCG: I think of maybe not specifically to Covid-19 but I feel like a lot of times, you know, with immigration reform. That's another thing that our families always talk about, you know, they hear from the news. Is it true that they're trying to pass legislation that would benefit people who come from farmworker backgrounds? I have to come back and talked to lawyers and then give them the good information. So I think a lot of times it's like, with immigration, I think reform. I think a lot of families are trying to see, you know, is if there's any immigration or relief or anything that would support them, at this time. And so hopefully I think within the next couple months, you know, people, as they see farmworkers essential, they start seeing that yes, of course, farmworkers have always been essential in our communities in our country. Without them, there's no food in our stores, on our tables. But I feel like, hopefully, you know, with this whole thing, it helps Americans see that, you know, we need to provide immigration relief or an immigration reform for not just farmworkers but everyone who is on the same boat. But I think with farmworkers, we really continue to oppress them, you know, so yes.
SB: [00:40:06] So how can people, even in this time of maintaining social distance, get involved and help some of these efforts initiated by SAF?
VCG: So one of the things that SAF is doing right now is that we are a part of this coalition called the Farmworker Advocacy Network, and this is a group of farmworker services organizations, so they provide direct services or they advocate for farmworkers. So, for example, we have the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry on there. We have Legal Aid Farmworker Unit on there. We have the Farmworkers Project, Student Action with Farmworkers, Toxic Free NC, so many, many of the different nonprofits that provided advocacy or direct services to farmworkers. So FAN, they’re actually doing a petition, asking Governor Cooper to actually not forget about foreign workers, you know, to protect farmworkers. And so we came up with this petition that we have, we're asking folks to sign. So that's one way to give back or to take action. Right now, we also sent a letter to Governor Cooper and we did get a response, or we're in the middle of getting a response, from them. But I think the petition is going to help amplify, you know, what are we asking. And some of the things that we're asking is making sure that farmworkers have access to health care, making sure that the their employers are providing good information or providing protection, but they're taking precaution, you know, pretty much what we're asking for everyone that farmworkers actually are getting the same, you know, we know that most of the time, that's not the case. And so, that's one of the ways to send one of the petitions. We actually have signed onto other petitions from the UFW, from other organizations in Florida. For example, the McCauly Coalition of Farmworkers and so, we're pretty much just - - one way to take action is to sign on to petitions. And donate, you know, donate to the different organizations that are providing direct services. You can donate to SAF, you can donate to the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. They need money for their food pantry. Because, yes, the food bank delivers food, but last time they didn't have any food, as you know, we're probably running out of food and the food banks. So we need money to directly buy food. You know, last time when I volunteered with them, we went to Walmart and bought all of their potatoes, all of their oil, all of their tortillas, all of their - - what else did we, why we bought a lot of stuff. And so this is the food that our local community will actually, you know, that's culturally appropriate that they will eat. And so I think providing financial resources, either to people that would provide food for farmworkers, or people that would provide direct funds to farmworkers to pay rent. That’s what our community is worried about. So we don't have a job - - how do we pay for rent? How do we buy food? How do we pay the bills? So I think those are some of the - - two ways - - that you know the community can actually, you know, benefit. And actually, sending a letter or sending an email to your representative, you know, asking them to step it up. It's not just the governor, you know, they have the power to step it up and provide protections for farmworkers. So, just a simple email: like, hey, I live in your district. Please don't forget to support farmworkers or to keep farmworkers in mind when talking about legislation. We're talking about financial support because we're all in the same boat, and farmworkers are the ones that are on the, you know, I guess you can see on a worse boat. Yeah.
SB: Well, thank you so much for all of all of this information and resources. [00:43:45] Those are the questions I have - - is there anything, additionally, that you would like to share?
VCG: I think it's just when talking about farmworkers, we need to, of course, uplift their voices but you can also do your, your little- - you can support by sharing, just talking about it, you can go to our page, our website, and there's a lot of educational resources on there. If you go to the Farmworker Advocacy Network website, there's a lot of organizations. Once this is over, or you can also reach out to them right now. If you feel like you want to reach out to Toxic Free NC and be like: Hey, how can we support right now? They have a lot of things that you could do if you reach out to the Episcopal Farmworker Ministry. How can we provide support? They'll let you know how. So making sure that you go out of your way, out of your personal life, out of your, you know, quarantine life and actually do some research, you know, and then share it with your family with your friends. Be like: Hey, I learned about this new organization. Can you donate with me? Let's donate twenty dollars to them. Let’s donate one hundred dollars to them, or let's sign on this sign on to this petition, you know, let's email our congressperson right now and asked them to keep farmworkers in mind when coming up with new legislation. I feel like just reaching out, learning, and sharing, sharing the, I guess in a way, sharing the knowledge that you learned from all of these folks that are doing awesome work. It's not just SAF. It's all of these other statewide organizations that are doing a lot, risking their lives, like the speaker Episcopal Farmworker Ministry, all of their staff is pretty much in the way, you can say risking their lives, you know, but we do it because we care. We care about the community. Last time we did the food pantry, we had a line of about - - over two miles. And so we had people and you know, that's good. But at the same time we're thinking like, whoa, like this is really, you know, affecting our community. You know if this is how they rely to get food on their tables, then we're doing something wrong. You know, we're doing something wrong, as a society, we're doing something wrong as a state. We're doing something wrong as a nation. Because those people that provide, that harvest the food— they don't have any food on their tables left when it comes to harsh or difficult times. So I guess just share the knowledge.
SB: Victor, thank you so much for taking time today to share your knowledge and experiences with us. I really appreciate it.
VCG: No, No. Thank you, Sarah, for willing to talk to us and, you know, you are part of the people that are actually going to help us reach more people. And the reason why I accepted to do this interview was because I know that other people will hear this. And that this might be the first time that they hear about farmworkers that they hear about, you know, our community or nonprofits that are actually doing something, you know, for community.
SB: Great. Well, thank you again, and stay safe.
VCG: Thank you, you too. Bye-bye.
SB: Bye. [00:46:35] END OF INTERVIEW Transcriber: Sarah Blanton Interview Date: April 17, 2020
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Es: Resumen
Victor Canales Gamiño es el director del grupo de jóvenes de Estudiantes en Acción con Campesinos (SAF, por sus siglas en inglés) en la universidad de Duke. En esta entrevista, cuenta sobre su migración a los Estados Unidos desde México cuando tenía apenas ocho años, sus experiencias trabajando con trabajadores agrícolas, la misión e iniciativas de SAF, y explica cómo uno puede apoyar a los trabajadores agrícolas incluso durante la crisis de Covid-19.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Victor Canales Gamiño, 17 abril 2020, R-0994, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0994 -- Gamiño, Victor Canales.
Description
An account of the resource
Victor Canales Gamiño is the youth organizing director at Student Action with Farmworkers (SAF) at Duke University. In this interview, he discusses his migration to the United States from Mexico when he was only eight years old, his experiences working with farmworkers, SAF’s mission and initiatives, and he elaborates on the ways in which one can get involved to support farmworkers even during the Covid-19 crisis.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2020-04-17
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28573">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0994_Audio.mp3
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/beb77ea13b6732eb10d04d33822b757b.mp3
1b05e93efb593a0659fb0ca06cfef32a
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/28a1f79312d670e0eea6a7b3a7bc5716.pdf
b109c7953d539c6525c142675d2fba1d
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0908
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2018-03-13
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Thomas, Major Jamie.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Police
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Sanford -- North Carolina -- United States
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Sanford -- Lee County -- North Carolina
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Heine, Rebecca.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Major Jamie Thomas is a member of the Sanford Police Department. Specifically, he is in charge of the U-Visa applications that this police department receives. The U visa is a United States visa for victims of crimes (and their immediate family members) who have suffered substantial mental or physical abuse and are willing to assist law enforcement and government officials in the investigation or prosecution of the criminal activity. Additionally, Major Thomas actively participated in the Sanford Building Integrated Communities program from 2013-2017, a UNC Latino Migration Project initiative dedicated to improving local government communication, leadership, and services with Latino communities. As part of this process, Major Thomas built networks and relationships with non-profit organizations, churches and other local immigrant leaders. Throughout this interview, Major Thomas describes his specific role in the U-Visa application revision process and describes how the police department works closely with local organizations to support victims. Additionally, he discusses the ways that members of the Latinx community most likely learn about the U-Visa application process as well as improvements that the Police Department can make to spread awareness about the availability of these resources in the community.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Major Jamie Thomas by Rebecca Heine, 13 March 2018, R-0908, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27575
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Receiving Communities; Citizenship and immigration; Community and Social Services and Programs; Legal issues
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Rebecca Heine: Hi this is Rebecca Heine here in Sanford interviewing Major Thomas. Major Thomas, do I have your consent to conduct this interview today?
Major Jamie Thomas: Yes.
RH: [00:00:16] Alright, so let’s start out with you taking me through the process of how you obtain a U-Visa and explaining your role in that process.
JT: Typically, I receive them from attorneys or a church that may be trying to help someone and when I get them from attorneys they’re all filled out completely. I just research it to ensure that we were the investigating agency, make sure it meets the criteria that that is the victim of course in the case and that they were helpful in the case before I’ll sign it. I think that most of the time when attorneys assist somebody with one, they’ve got pretty much all the legwork done, it’s just my part to research a little bit.
RH: [00:01:25] When you’re talking about the criteria for something to research and for something to be deemed as eligible for a U-Visa, did a certain type of criminal offence have to be committed against that person?
JT: Yeah, mostly it has to be some sort of assault or bodily injury, or threat, or a weapon may be involved, or typically domestic related or worse. It’s not for misdemeanor larcenies and things like that. Say, they stole their cell phone or something. It would have to be an aggressive action towards the victim.
RH: [00:02:17] So do you know if this is advertised in any way to the Latinx community in Sanford, or how do you think they would hear about this? Do you think that it’s known in the community-
JT: -I think some of the groups that help the Hispanic communities know about it and talk about it. The local Catholic Church, the Reverend there and the one of the Deacons work with them constantly. They’ll call me or email me and pose some questions for someone that they think may make the criteria or so. They’ve helped a lot of people here locally. Now I can’t speak for outside of Sanford of course, but there’s more than one church that has group settings for the Hispanic community and population and they give them all sorts of information and that’s just part of it.
RH: So once you get these requests, do you have to communicate with the person who is attempting to acquire the U-Visa themselves, or no?
JT: I have. I’ve had some bring them themselves.
RH: Oh.
JT: Up here. And I’ll talk to them then and if there’s a language barrier we have several officers that are bilingual so.
RH: How much is this process used? Like how many cases do you get on average a week or a month?
JT: I would say lately it’s been about three to five a month.
RH: [00:04:35 ] And do you think that this is a process that’s used as much as it should be or do you think that if the community was more aware of the fact that they could use this, then it would be implemented more.
JT: Yeah, I don’t think that it’s utilized as it should be or could be. Still with some there’s that threat of reporting anything to law enforcement so I’m sure that there’s victims out there that are victims of serious crimes that never reported anything to us. To the police or Sheriffs or anybody. And so without the report of course, the U-Visa does no good and it’s just to try to build a relationship to know that they can trust us. We’re not here to deport them. That’s not our goal, that’s not our job. If they come to us for help we’re going to help them. But there’s still. In the community I know there’s still that threat that they feel you know when they see- or they don’t want to report things to law enforcement. And it may be just because they may not have a valid I.D. or something. You know it’s just little things, but they’re still afraid to report them.
RH: Are there cases in which you’re technically obligated to report someone based off their immigration status if you find out about it or not necessarily?
JT: Not necessarily. We’ve had situations where people show up at the hospital that have been really injured by someone and they just refuse to talk to us. And we can’t make them. They just say I fell down or whatever happened and we would know that wasn’t the fact, but we can’t make them report it. We can ask, and we can even reassure them that look no matter what you tell us or what your name is, we’re not going to research you, we’re just going to try to help you. But it doesn’t work all the time.
RH: So, if for example, you have proof or someone directly tells you that they don’t have the correct papers to be in the country, you’re not obligated to do anything about it? No?
JT: No.
RH: But is there a like countywide policy on how to handle cases like that?
JT: Well, no not really. Like I say that’s not our main job. If there’s a nationwide want on that person- of course we’ve got to detain them until whatever is done is done. But just because someone doesn’t have the proper paperwork, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re here illegally. Without them committing some sort of serious crime, that’s not our job.
RH: [00:08:08 ] So, do you have any ideas- so you said that you think that this is a process that could be utilized more if I guess people are more educated about it-
JT: Absolutely. And I think the biggest thing that I’ve seen. You know these forms are online. And I have not read anywhere that it has to be an attorney or some sort of professional place that has to complete these forms. With access yourself you can complete it. Now, I’m not sure how much assistance you can get on your own trying to move forward and submit all the paperwork and knowing how to handle everything, but I think that with attorneys involved, I think it gets too costly for some. I have some people that I speak with regularly, local that are business owners within the Hispanic Community and they’ll come to me from time to time with someone to see if they qualify. And I’ll tell them all the same thing. I don’t want to take money out of anybody’s pocket, but if some person can’t afford whatever the fee is, and I’ve heard few say that they’re just way out of range for somebody to afford that’s a hard working local person they just can’t afford to hire an expensive attorney to get it done. Now, the Catholic Church, I’m sure they don’t charge a fee of course. They help a lot with individuals that just come to them if they know to go to them or where they could go that’s the biggest thing. I’ve had attorneys send me stuff from Florida. As far South as Florida to as far North as Maine. So, it could be coming from anywhere and I don’t know if the applicant just no longer lives here or still where the crime occurred or they’re hiring offline attorneys or something. I’m not sure what the details are there, but.
RH: So if the crime happened here and then they move away they would still have to get all the U-Visa paperwork done here?
JT: Yeah, well it doesn’t necessarily have to be the investigative agency that does it. Now, of course if they want the investigative agency to do it, it has to go to that agency that investigated the crime. It could go to the courthouse, the district attorney’s office, to judge, to what have you. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the law enforcement side of it. But what we always sign off on is that they were helpful in the investigation, that they gave the required information, assisted the law enforcement investigators, what have you, and identified suspects and all the way through to making an arrest or even prosecution.
RH: Do you know if the U-Visa forms- you said you can find them online.
JT: Absolutely
RH: Do you know if they’re also online in Spanish, or are they just online in English.
JT: Couldn’t tell you.
RH: Yeah you don’t know. Interesting. Because I feel like that could make a huge difference in accessibility.
JT: I’m sure they probably are, but I’ve just never looked. I helped a lady that was abused fill hers out myself here in my office and she was trying to take care of herself because she had no money. She couldn’t afford it. She came here upset, asking for help, and she had the form. I don’t know where she got it. Didn’t ask. Didn’t care. But she just didn’t know what all needed to be filled out on it so I just pulled it up online. You can complete it online and it tells you everything to do right there.
RH: So, once you receive the forms from a lawyer, a church, or someone comes in and gives them to you, where do you have to send them off to?
JT: Right, I give them right back to that person.
RH: And then do you know where they have to send them to? No?
JT: I’m sure it’s some federal government place that handles that. So whatever their process is. So I just sign it, add some notes in if I feel like I need to, which most of the time I do. And mail it back to the attorneys or hand it off to the church here or even to the victim themselves.
RH: So then obviously there would be another stage of an approval process. Do you ever end up hearing back from people that you help like what the final result was?
JT: I have, I’ve gotten letters back from people showing their appreciation. There’s also follow-ups from time to time. If I signed one a couple years ago, it may have to be renewed and they’ll send one for a renewal or to re-sign. I’ve done that on a few occasions. So I mean it’s helpful, as long as it works for them that’s just my job.
RH: Do you know how long before it would have to be renewed or no?
JT: No, I don’t. Just whenever I get them in the mail, that’s it. Other than my part of it my knowledge of them is pretty limited.
RH: [00:14:45 ] So you said that it has to be usually domestic or worse in terms of pretty fairly violent cases. So what types do you most often see?
JT: Most are domestic-related. Felonious assaults is probably next. Armed robbery. Assault with deadly weapons, things like that. That’s mainly the ones. There’s a list on the application on the first page near the bottom that lists all the crimes that qualify. And then there’s a box for other of course, that you can write in if you feel the crime is serious enough but just not listed.
RH: So, do you know if this is a process that’s used in surrounding counties or I guess what’s the process- I mean obviously you had to have been trained or educated in this, so what’s the process of having this be an option in an area or county.
JT: Well I mean it’s a federal program, so it’s mandated by Obama I believe initially. And maybe even before Obama, but when I started doing it they just sent me a bunch of stuff to research. You know, to read over. And I had the Chief type up a letter, and sign it and send it back authorizing me to do it for this department. Now, how everybody else done it I don’t know.
RH: So was this police department required to have someone that could do it?
JT: Absolutely.
RH: Okay. So maybe if it’s like a federal-mandated thing, then that’s required for all police departments.
JT: I’d imagine all local government, countywide and state. So I’m sure there’s a representative somewhere in every department that takes care of them.
RH: Have you experienced any cases in which someone came forward and tried to apply for a U-Visa, and it wasn’t granted and they ended up getting in trouble with immigration? Have you had any situations like that?
JT: No. I have not signed some because to me it didn’t qualify, and then they may try it again six months later and I just usually refer them to somebody else because once I don’t sign it to start with I’m probably not going to sign it a second time. But those are really few. I mean it doesn’t really happen that many times. Most people that complete them qualify. This was one particular- I remember it was a guy and it was one of his family members that was involved in this situation and he was trying to get it based on he had some mental trauma from what happened to his cousin or whatever and that doesn’t meet the criteria right. So I couldn’t sign it. Plus, he was not involved in the investigation and I don’t even know who he was. He wasn’t listed on our investigation to start with so he couldn’t use it. So if he ever got one, he didn’t get it because I signed it. And it’s not a guarantee when I sign them that people still get their U-Visa.
RH: Yeah, I wonder what the rate is once you sign them. That’d be interesting to know.
JT: Yeah, it would, it would.
RH: So, when did you start doing the U- So you said you’ve been here twenty-seven years?
JT: I’ve been doing this about five years.
RH: So this has been about five years. And before was there just not really a system.
JT: Yeah, the person that had this job before me did it. So we just had to change names of who was doing it.
RH: So there always had to be someone in the department listed for the U-Visa.
JT: Since it’s been around, yeah. Since it’s been new.
RH: But you’ve only been doing it for five.
JT: Five. Yeah. April. April 2013.
RH: You have a good memory. So I guess if you could think of any other improvements that you- or ways- I don’t know, if you had any ideas about ways that the police department could reach out to people in the Latinx community and let them know about this process. Obviously the church has played a big role, but I’m just curious about if you had any ideas about ways that gap could be breached.
JT: Well, what I’ve suggest to- whenever there’s a special event of some sort within the Hispanic community, if it’s a- it’s called El Refugio here in town- they do special events at a church and they get a large group of Hispanics and the purpose is to try to educate them on city government, county government, social services, what have you. Just try to feed information. The local community college will be there. We’re always there. And we share information like that at those forums. The Catholic Church does one about twice a year and we try to be there to share information with people. And not just necessarily U-Visas, but what were here for. To try to build a relationship so they’ll trust us. That’s what we want. And we can tell more about it. You know, victims of crimes, especially domestic related. And plus Haven, in Lee county here, if we refer a victim of a domestic violence to Haven, Haven shares the information also about U-Visas.
RH: So those events you said are put on twice a year by the church?
JT: Yeah, the church does it. Well both churches. It’s the Jonesboro Methodist Church, and I’m not sure what El Refugio is I don’t speak Spanish, but I’m assuming it’s Refuge-
RH: Yep
JT: But they run like a school there. And they teach English as a second language. They do a lot with the churches for the Hispanic community here. And we just try our best to be involved. They have told us that some people won’t come because they see the police car or our mobile unit.
RH: Oh wow.
JT: Parked there. So they’re coming and they go “Oh no okay” and they leave. One time they wanted us to wear plain clothes and not bring a police car and I’m like ‘Hm, it don’t work like that.’ We will make them feel comfortable, if they just come.
RH: Are you not allowed to show up in plain clothes?
JT: Oh yeah we are, but it’s still not the purpose. Our purpose is to- you know we want to start when they’re kids to feel comfortable with a man or a lady in uniform. And to know that hey, because they’re wearing blue and they’ve got badges and they’ve got guns, they’re not here to hurt you or take you away, they’re here to help you in every way possible. And of course we’ve got to keep the law, and if somebody’s committing a crime, of course they’ve got to understand circumstances, but it’s much more than that. Policing has changed a lot in the last twenty-five years. And it’s not all about throwing people in jail and taking parents away from kids. We want to keep everybody together.
RH: So are there ways that the police department tries to interact with kids in schools and stuff?
JT: We do classes. Right now our community-policing unit is teaching classes within the local schools about drugs and alcohol. It used to be a DARE program, and it was probably a DARE program when you were in school somewhere. High school. Or middle school. That graduated you up. But DARE just kind of went away. It’s a thing of the past. So now they’re working with the ABC commission and they’ve come up with this new class about drugs and alcohol that we’re teaching them in schools which helps build a relationship. And our community police unit- they go everywhere. If there’s any kind of special event. We’re invited to Boys and Girls Club, YMCA. You know, I mean last night we just played basketball with them at the Boys and Girls Club. So that’s where we have to start to build that relationship to make them- to earn their trust. And I know it’s difficult for some people.
RH: So if you have events at El Refugio, do the Spanish-speaking people go?
JT: Oh yeah, we have to try to make sure someone is there for that. Of course they always have interpreters around. But it just makes people feel better if we have an officer there speaking Spanish.
RH: Is the officer that speaks Spanish- did they learn it in school, or speak it at home?
JT: We have some that are Hispanic officers, and we have some that just learned it. Probably started in school, but you’ve got to learn the lingo which of course is a little bit different.
RH: Um, I’m trying to see if we hit all my questions.
JT: I think I barely passed foreign language. I took Spanish, but that was so long ago.
RH: Wasn’t your thing?
JT: No.
RH: So do you think if the police officers went to an El Refugio event out of uniform, do you think that-
JT: I think that probably more people would show maybe if they didn’t see the police car or the mobile unit, but once they found out that there were police officers they probably still wouldn’t interact with them.
RH: You think?
JT: Yeah, they probably wouldn’t run away, but they just wouldn’t communicate with them.
RH: Yeah, because I’m wondering if it would make them feel more calm or almost more anxious because it might seem like they are undercover. So I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know what I think about that. Interesting. Your perspective on that is interesting. Well I think those are pretty much all my questions, if there’s anything else you want to talk about we can or if there’s anything interesting or if you have any particular stories or anything about this process.
JT: No, that’s pretty much it. Like I said, if here locally, between the Catholic Church and the Methodist Church, they pipe information to these Hispanic Communities. That’s probably why we’ve had the number we’ve had of the U-Visas because most probably don’t have access to a computer, or may not be educated enough to use them. And they have to depend on their kids. I have a lot of kids come in with their parents. Their mothers or fathers. They have to communicate for them the details. But it’s just part of education I guess.
RH: Well thank you so much for letting me interview you for my project.
JT: No problem.
END OF INTERVIEW
[00:29:39]
Transcribed by Rebecca Heine on April 16, 2018
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Policía
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Major Jamie Thomas es un miembro del Departamento de Policía de Sanford. Específicamente, él es encargado de las solicitudes del programa de U-Visa que este departamento de policía recibe. La U Visa es una visa de los Estados Unidos reservada para las víctimas de crímenes (y sus familiares) que han sufrido abuso mental o físico considerable y están dispuestos a ayudar a las autoridades policiales y gubernamentales en la investigación de los delincuentes. Además, Mayor Thomas participó activamente en el programa de Construyendo Comunidades Integradas en Sanford de 2013 a 2017, una iniciativa del “Latino Migration Project” de la universidad de carolina del norte en Chapel Hill dedicada a mejorar la comunicación, el liderazgo y los servicios del gobierno local con las comunidades latinas. Como parte de este proceso, Major Thomas fortaleció redes y relaciones con organizaciones sin fines de lucro, iglesias y otros líderes locales de inmigrantes. Durante esta entrevista, Major Thomas describe su papel especifica en el proceso de la revisión de las solicitudes de U-Visa y cómo el departamento de policía trabaja con las organizaciones locales para apoyar a las víctimas. También, él habla de las maneras en que la comunidad latina puede aprender del proceso de la solicitud de U-Visa y como el departamento de policía puede mejorar su comunicación con la comunidad latina acerca de los recursos disponibles para víctimas.
Es: Temas
Comunidades receptoras; Cuidadanía e inmigración; Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Asuntos legales
Es: Transcripción
Rebecca Heine: Hi this is Rebecca Heine here in Sanford interviewing Major Thomas. Major Thomas, do I have your consent to conduct this interview today?
Major Jamie Thomas: Yes.
RH: [00:00:16] Alright, so let’s start out with you taking me through the process of how you obtain a U-Visa and explaining your role in that process.
JT: Typically, I receive them from attorneys or a church that may be trying to help someone and when I get them from attorneys they’re all filled out completely. I just research it to ensure that we were the investigating agency, make sure it meets the criteria that that is the victim of course in the case and that they were helpful in the case before I’ll sign it. I think that most of the time when attorneys assist somebody with one, they’ve got pretty much all the legwork done, it’s just my part to research a little bit.
RH: [00:01:25] When you’re talking about the criteria for something to research and for something to be deemed as eligible for a U-Visa, did a certain type of criminal offence have to be committed against that person?
JT: Yeah, mostly it has to be some sort of assault or bodily injury, or threat, or a weapon may be involved, or typically domestic related or worse. It’s not for misdemeanor larcenies and things like that. Say, they stole their cell phone or something. It would have to be an aggressive action towards the victim.
RH: [00:02:17] So do you know if this is advertised in any way to the Latinx community in Sanford, or how do you think they would hear about this? Do you think that it’s known in the community-
JT: -I think some of the groups that help the Hispanic communities know about it and talk about it. The local Catholic Church, the Reverend there and the one of the Deacons work with them constantly. They’ll call me or email me and pose some questions for someone that they think may make the criteria or so. They’ve helped a lot of people here locally. Now I can’t speak for outside of Sanford of course, but there’s more than one church that has group settings for the Hispanic community and population and they give them all sorts of information and that’s just part of it.
RH: So once you get these requests, do you have to communicate with the person who is attempting to acquire the U-Visa themselves, or no?
JT: I have. I’ve had some bring them themselves.
RH: Oh.
JT: Up here. And I’ll talk to them then and if there’s a language barrier we have several officers that are bilingual so.
RH: How much is this process used? Like how many cases do you get on average a week or a month?
JT: I would say lately it’s been about three to five a month.
RH: [00:04:35 ] And do you think that this is a process that’s used as much as it should be or do you think that if the community was more aware of the fact that they could use this, then it would be implemented more.
JT: Yeah, I don’t think that it’s utilized as it should be or could be. Still with some there’s that threat of reporting anything to law enforcement so I’m sure that there’s victims out there that are victims of serious crimes that never reported anything to us. To the police or Sheriffs or anybody. And so without the report of course, the U-Visa does no good and it’s just to try to build a relationship to know that they can trust us. We’re not here to deport them. That’s not our goal, that’s not our job. If they come to us for help we’re going to help them. But there’s still. In the community I know there’s still that threat that they feel you know when they see- or they don’t want to report things to law enforcement. And it may be just because they may not have a valid I.D. or something. You know it’s just little things, but they’re still afraid to report them.
RH: Are there cases in which you’re technically obligated to report someone based off their immigration status if you find out about it or not necessarily?
JT: Not necessarily. We’ve had situations where people show up at the hospital that have been really injured by someone and they just refuse to talk to us. And we can’t make them. They just say I fell down or whatever happened and we would know that wasn’t the fact, but we can’t make them report it. We can ask, and we can even reassure them that look no matter what you tell us or what your name is, we’re not going to research you, we’re just going to try to help you. But it doesn’t work all the time.
RH: So, if for example, you have proof or someone directly tells you that they don’t have the correct papers to be in the country, you’re not obligated to do anything about it? No?
JT: No.
RH: But is there a like countywide policy on how to handle cases like that?
JT: Well, no not really. Like I say that’s not our main job. If there’s a nationwide want on that person- of course we’ve got to detain them until whatever is done is done. But just because someone doesn’t have the proper paperwork, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re here illegally. Without them committing some sort of serious crime, that’s not our job.
RH: [00:08:08 ] So, do you have any ideas- so you said that you think that this is a process that could be utilized more if I guess people are more educated about it-
JT: Absolutely. And I think the biggest thing that I’ve seen. You know these forms are online. And I have not read anywhere that it has to be an attorney or some sort of professional place that has to complete these forms. With access yourself you can complete it. Now, I’m not sure how much assistance you can get on your own trying to move forward and submit all the paperwork and knowing how to handle everything, but I think that with attorneys involved, I think it gets too costly for some. I have some people that I speak with regularly, local that are business owners within the Hispanic Community and they’ll come to me from time to time with someone to see if they qualify. And I’ll tell them all the same thing. I don’t want to take money out of anybody’s pocket, but if some person can’t afford whatever the fee is, and I’ve heard few say that they’re just way out of range for somebody to afford that’s a hard working local person they just can’t afford to hire an expensive attorney to get it done. Now, the Catholic Church, I’m sure they don’t charge a fee of course. They help a lot with individuals that just come to them if they know to go to them or where they could go that’s the biggest thing. I’ve had attorneys send me stuff from Florida. As far South as Florida to as far North as Maine. So, it could be coming from anywhere and I don’t know if the applicant just no longer lives here or still where the crime occurred or they’re hiring offline attorneys or something. I’m not sure what the details are there, but.
RH: So if the crime happened here and then they move away they would still have to get all the U-Visa paperwork done here?
JT: Yeah, well it doesn’t necessarily have to be the investigative agency that does it. Now, of course if they want the investigative agency to do it, it has to go to that agency that investigated the crime. It could go to the courthouse, the district attorney’s office, to judge, to what have you. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the law enforcement side of it. But what we always sign off on is that they were helpful in the investigation, that they gave the required information, assisted the law enforcement investigators, what have you, and identified suspects and all the way through to making an arrest or even prosecution.
RH: Do you know if the U-Visa forms- you said you can find them online.
JT: Absolutely
RH: Do you know if they’re also online in Spanish, or are they just online in English.
JT: Couldn’t tell you.
RH: Yeah you don’t know. Interesting. Because I feel like that could make a huge difference in accessibility.
JT: I’m sure they probably are, but I’ve just never looked. I helped a lady that was abused fill hers out myself here in my office and she was trying to take care of herself because she had no money. She couldn’t afford it. She came here upset, asking for help, and she had the form. I don’t know where she got it. Didn’t ask. Didn’t care. But she just didn’t know what all needed to be filled out on it so I just pulled it up online. You can complete it online and it tells you everything to do right there.
RH: So, once you receive the forms from a lawyer, a church, or someone comes in and gives them to you, where do you have to send them off to?
JT: Right, I give them right back to that person.
RH: And then do you know where they have to send them to? No?
JT: I’m sure it’s some federal government place that handles that. So whatever their process is. So I just sign it, add some notes in if I feel like I need to, which most of the time I do. And mail it back to the attorneys or hand it off to the church here or even to the victim themselves.
RH: So then obviously there would be another stage of an approval process. Do you ever end up hearing back from people that you help like what the final result was?
JT: I have, I’ve gotten letters back from people showing their appreciation. There’s also follow-ups from time to time. If I signed one a couple years ago, it may have to be renewed and they’ll send one for a renewal or to re-sign. I’ve done that on a few occasions. So I mean it’s helpful, as long as it works for them that’s just my job.
RH: Do you know how long before it would have to be renewed or no?
JT: No, I don’t. Just whenever I get them in the mail, that’s it. Other than my part of it my knowledge of them is pretty limited.
RH: [00:14:45 ] So you said that it has to be usually domestic or worse in terms of pretty fairly violent cases. So what types do you most often see?
JT: Most are domestic-related. Felonious assaults is probably next. Armed robbery. Assault with deadly weapons, things like that. That’s mainly the ones. There’s a list on the application on the first page near the bottom that lists all the crimes that qualify. And then there’s a box for other of course, that you can write in if you feel the crime is serious enough but just not listed.
RH: So, do you know if this is a process that’s used in surrounding counties or I guess what’s the process- I mean obviously you had to have been trained or educated in this, so what’s the process of having this be an option in an area or county.
JT: Well I mean it’s a federal program, so it’s mandated by Obama I believe initially. And maybe even before Obama, but when I started doing it they just sent me a bunch of stuff to research. You know, to read over. And I had the Chief type up a letter, and sign it and send it back authorizing me to do it for this department. Now, how everybody else done it I don’t know.
RH: So was this police department required to have someone that could do it?
JT: Absolutely.
RH: Okay. So maybe if it’s like a federal-mandated thing, then that’s required for all police departments.
JT: I’d imagine all local government, countywide and state. So I’m sure there’s a representative somewhere in every department that takes care of them.
RH: Have you experienced any cases in which someone came forward and tried to apply for a U-Visa, and it wasn’t granted and they ended up getting in trouble with immigration? Have you had any situations like that?
JT: No. I have not signed some because to me it didn’t qualify, and then they may try it again six months later and I just usually refer them to somebody else because once I don’t sign it to start with I’m probably not going to sign it a second time. But those are really few. I mean it doesn’t really happen that many times. Most people that complete them qualify. This was one particular- I remember it was a guy and it was one of his family members that was involved in this situation and he was trying to get it based on he had some mental trauma from what happened to his cousin or whatever and that doesn’t meet the criteria right. So I couldn’t sign it. Plus, he was not involved in the investigation and I don’t even know who he was. He wasn’t listed on our investigation to start with so he couldn’t use it. So if he ever got one, he didn’t get it because I signed it. And it’s not a guarantee when I sign them that people still get their U-Visa.
RH: Yeah, I wonder what the rate is once you sign them. That’d be interesting to know.
JT: Yeah, it would, it would.
RH: So, when did you start doing the U- So you said you’ve been here twenty-seven years?
JT: I’ve been doing this about five years.
RH: So this has been about five years. And before was there just not really a system.
JT: Yeah, the person that had this job before me did it. So we just had to change names of who was doing it.
RH: So there always had to be someone in the department listed for the U-Visa.
JT: Since it’s been around, yeah. Since it’s been new.
RH: But you’ve only been doing it for five.
JT: Five. Yeah. April. April 2013.
RH: You have a good memory. So I guess if you could think of any other improvements that you- or ways- I don’t know, if you had any ideas about ways that the police department could reach out to people in the Latinx community and let them know about this process. Obviously the church has played a big role, but I’m just curious about if you had any ideas about ways that gap could be breached.
JT: Well, what I’ve suggest to- whenever there’s a special event of some sort within the Hispanic community, if it’s a- it’s called El Refugio here in town- they do special events at a church and they get a large group of Hispanics and the purpose is to try to educate them on city government, county government, social services, what have you. Just try to feed information. The local community college will be there. We’re always there. And we share information like that at those forums. The Catholic Church does one about twice a year and we try to be there to share information with people. And not just necessarily U-Visas, but what were here for. To try to build a relationship so they’ll trust us. That’s what we want. And we can tell more about it. You know, victims of crimes, especially domestic related. And plus Haven, in Lee county here, if we refer a victim of a domestic violence to Haven, Haven shares the information also about U-Visas.
RH: So those events you said are put on twice a year by the church?
JT: Yeah, the church does it. Well both churches. It’s the Jonesboro Methodist Church, and I’m not sure what El Refugio is I don’t speak Spanish, but I’m assuming it’s Refuge-
RH: Yep
JT: But they run like a school there. And they teach English as a second language. They do a lot with the churches for the Hispanic community here. And we just try our best to be involved. They have told us that some people won’t come because they see the police car or our mobile unit.
RH: Oh wow.
JT: Parked there. So they’re coming and they go “Oh no okay” and they leave. One time they wanted us to wear plain clothes and not bring a police car and I’m like ‘Hm, it don’t work like that.’ We will make them feel comfortable, if they just come.
RH: Are you not allowed to show up in plain clothes?
JT: Oh yeah we are, but it’s still not the purpose. Our purpose is to- you know we want to start when they’re kids to feel comfortable with a man or a lady in uniform. And to know that hey, because they’re wearing blue and they’ve got badges and they’ve got guns, they’re not here to hurt you or take you away, they’re here to help you in every way possible. And of course we’ve got to keep the law, and if somebody’s committing a crime, of course they’ve got to understand circumstances, but it’s much more than that. Policing has changed a lot in the last twenty-five years. And it’s not all about throwing people in jail and taking parents away from kids. We want to keep everybody together.
RH: So are there ways that the police department tries to interact with kids in schools and stuff?
JT: We do classes. Right now our community-policing unit is teaching classes within the local schools about drugs and alcohol. It used to be a DARE program, and it was probably a DARE program when you were in school somewhere. High school. Or middle school. That graduated you up. But DARE just kind of went away. It’s a thing of the past. So now they’re working with the ABC commission and they’ve come up with this new class about drugs and alcohol that we’re teaching them in schools which helps build a relationship. And our community police unit- they go everywhere. If there’s any kind of special event. We’re invited to Boys and Girls Club, YMCA. You know, I mean last night we just played basketball with them at the Boys and Girls Club. So that’s where we have to start to build that relationship to make them- to earn their trust. And I know it’s difficult for some people.
RH: So if you have events at El Refugio, do the Spanish-speaking people go?
JT: Oh yeah, we have to try to make sure someone is there for that. Of course they always have interpreters around. But it just makes people feel better if we have an officer there speaking Spanish.
RH: Is the officer that speaks Spanish- did they learn it in school, or speak it at home?
JT: We have some that are Hispanic officers, and we have some that just learned it. Probably started in school, but you’ve got to learn the lingo which of course is a little bit different.
RH: Um, I’m trying to see if we hit all my questions.
JT: I think I barely passed foreign language. I took Spanish, but that was so long ago.
RH: Wasn’t your thing?
JT: No.
RH: So do you think if the police officers went to an El Refugio event out of uniform, do you think that-
JT: I think that probably more people would show maybe if they didn’t see the police car or the mobile unit, but once they found out that there were police officers they probably still wouldn’t interact with them.
RH: You think?
JT: Yeah, they probably wouldn’t run away, but they just wouldn’t communicate with them.
RH: Yeah, because I’m wondering if it would make them feel more calm or almost more anxious because it might seem like they are undercover. So I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know what I think about that. Interesting. Your perspective on that is interesting. Well I think those are pretty much all my questions, if there’s anything else you want to talk about we can or if there’s anything interesting or if you have any particular stories or anything about this process.
JT: No, that’s pretty much it. Like I said, if here locally, between the Catholic Church and the Methodist Church, they pipe information to these Hispanic Communities. That’s probably why we’ve had the number we’ve had of the U-Visas because most probably don’t have access to a computer, or may not be educated enough to use them. And they have to depend on their kids. I have a lot of kids come in with their parents. Their mothers or fathers. They have to communicate for them the details. But it’s just part of education I guess.
RH: Well thank you so much for letting me interview you for my project.
JT: No problem.
END OF INTERVIEW
[00:29:39]
Transcribed by Rebecca Heine on April 16, 2018
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R-0908 -- Thomas, Major Jamie.
Description
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Major Jamie Thomas is a member of the Sanford Police Department. Specifically, he is in charge of the U-Visa applications that this police department receives. The U visa is a United States visa for victims of crimes (and their immediate family members) who have suffered substantial mental or physical abuse and are willing to assist law enforcement and government officials in the investigation or prosecution of the criminal activity. Additionally, Major Thomas actively participated in the Sanford Building Integrated Communities program from 2013-2017, a UNC Latino Migration Project initiative dedicated to improving local government communication, leadership, and services with Latino communities. As part of this process, Major Thomas built networks and relationships with non-profit organizations, churches and other local immigrant leaders. Throughout this interview, Major Thomas describes his specific role in the U-Visa application revision process and describes how the police department works closely with local organizations to support victims. Additionally, he discusses the ways that members of the Latinx community most likely learn about the U-Visa application process as well as improvements that the Police Department can make to spread awareness about the availability of these resources in the community.
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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
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No restrictions. Open to research.
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2018-03-13
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R0908_Audio.mp3
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<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27575">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>