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https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/298ca38d2763a06b517a900848960d16.mp3
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https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/b5bf15eab8a7e0044521de1d998d98bb.pdf
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SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1011
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2023-04-21
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
García Rico, Yazmin.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Health services administrators
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1989
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Orizaba -- Veracruz -- México
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Graham -- Alamance County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-97.1046371459961 18.84562110900879),1989,1;POINT(-79.40039825439453 36.06760025024414),2002,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Velásquez, Daniel.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Yazmin García Rico is Director of Latinx and Hispanic Policy and Strategy at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services (NC DHHS). She recounts her activism during her tenure in college, helping Latinx youth navigate college enrollment and her outreach efforts to connect farmworker communities with healthcare and other resources. Thanks to the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, Yazmin was able to continue helping farmworkers after college in various positions, and also earn a Master’s degree in social work at UNC-Chapel Hill. Yazmin expresses deep regret at her father’s passing from COVID-19 at a time before vaccines or treatments were available. She subsequently joined NC DHHS in her current role to coordinate vaccine distributions and address disparities in the pandemic’s impact on the state’s Latinx population. Yazmin’s journey is marked both by her own determination and the determination of others in her network to help open doors for her. In that vein, Yazmin emphasizes the need for support systems that can help uplift Latinx youth and address underrepresentation across state leadership.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Yazmin García Rico by Daniel Velásquez, 21 April 2023, R-1011, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29349
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Activism; COVID-19; DREAMers and DACA; Education; Social networks
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Administradores de servicios de salud
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Yazmin García Rico es Directora de Política y Estrategia Latinx en el Departamento de Salud y Servicios Humanos de Carolina del Norte (NC DHHS, por sus siglas en inglés). Cuenta sobre su activismo durante su estancia en la universidad, ayudando a jóvenes latinos a matricularse y sus esfuerzos de alcance (outreach) para conectar a las comunidades de trabajadores agrícolas con atención médica y otros recursos. Gracias a la Acción Diferida para los Llegados en la Infancia (DACA, por sus siglas en inglés), Yazmin pudo seguir ayudando a los trabajadores agrícolas después de la universidad en varios puestos, como también obtener una maestría en trabajo social de la UNC-Chapel Hill. Yazmin lamenta no haber podido ayudar a su padre en Veracruz, quien falleció de COVID-19 cuando ella trabajaba en un hospital del Condado de Alamance organizando la distribución de alimentos y recursos para combatir la pandemia. Posteriormente se incorporó al NC DHHS en su puesto actual para coordinar la distribución de vacunas y abordar las disparidades del impacto de la pandemia en la población latina del estado. La trayectoria de Yazmin está marcada tanto por su propia determinación como por la de otras personas de su red que le han ayudado a abrir puertas. En ese sentido, Yazmin enfatiza la necesidad de contar con sistemas de apoyo que puedan ayudar a impulsar a la juventud latina y a abordar la falta de representación en el liderazgo estatal.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Yazmin García Rico por Daniel Velásquez, 21 April 2023, R-1011, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Activismo; COVID-19; Educación; Movimiento de jóvenes 'Soñadores' y Acción Diferida; Redes sociales
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Daniel Velásquez: I'm Daniel Velasquez. Today is April 21st, 2023. I'm here today with Yazmin García Rico, who is Director of Latinx and Hispanic Policy and Strategy at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services. Yazmin, thank you so much for sitting with me today for your oral history.
Yazmin García Rico: Thank you so much for having me.
DV: Okay, Yazmin, let's get started with some basic information. Could you tell me about your personal background? Where were you born and raised and any early life experiences that you would like to share?
YGR: Yeah, so a little bit about myself. I was born in Orizaba, Veracruz, Mexico, which is, Veracruz is in the Gulf Coast, and I was there for the first few years of my life. Some of the experiences that are the most memorable are really the times that I spent with my grandparents who were very crucial in my upbringing. I really enjoyed spending time in their house, eating the food that my grandma used to make, and I am just really grateful for the time that I had with them. They both passed away when I was in the US, so I didn't get a chance to see them in the last couple years of their lives or last few years of their lives. So, it's something that I really cherish a lot. And I also remember a lot the train, for some reason, because the train was a very, sort of, central part of my life. My dad used to work for the railroad company of Mexico and so we used to travel in the train to see family. I could hear the train from my house, from my grandparents’ house, and so I think for me that reminds me even here now as an adult every time I hear the train I think of home, I think of my dad and really what I think he wanted us to learn from him which is work ethic and dedication to, you know, to whatever you're passionate about. So, Mexico, when I think of, you know, childhood, I think of Mexico. I think about my culture and in a completely different life in a way because everyone around me looked like me. And I think that really shaped me in a way that may be different for other people that don't have that same experience.
DV: Thank you. What brought you to the United States, and to North Carolina, specifically?
YGR: So, I think definitely it was to seek a better life, to have a little bit more stability financially and more opportunities in terms of an education. I remember thinking about maybe one day I'll grow up and I'll be able to work for the government, which was crazy to think about as a child. So, when it actually happened was it like, oh, you know, I did think that I probably was around 13, 12 when I had that idea. One of the ideas crossed my mind, I think I was like--. I watched a lot of movies and American shows and, I don't know what I watched at that moment but I remember thinking about growing up and doing a job that served in government, in that capacity. So that's the initial reason why I ended up in the United States, not really knowing the complexity and the, you know, challenges and how life would be. I only had movies as a, you know, baseline of what the United States was.
DV: Tell us about your education and any other formative experiences here in North Carolina. I know that you've held many internships and have been involved in various volunteer positions. And you probably have gained some leadership experience along the way, so tell us about all that.
YGR: Yeah, so this is for me a long journey. [Laughter]
DV: Okay.
YGR: For me, being able to get an education really has been a path that has taken a long time. I got to the US when I was about 13 years old and I started eighth grade. So the first couple years were really trying to get a sense of the school, the language, the culture. I had no idea what Thanksgiving was, Halloween, just different things that are the normal here that I didn't have awareness of. So I had to learn a lot about just the culture in the South too, if you add that layer. So, education was something that I was always interested in. I don't think it was ever a question for me if I was going to go to college. At that point I just didn't know how, but I knew I wanted to go to college. And so going through high school I think that was really when I developed a little bit more in my understanding of English and I still tried to grasp a sense of what everyone around me already knew and that I was trying to, you know, catch up with. I only knew about one school, one college, and that's because a friend of mine in high school who was three years older, I was a freshman he was a senior, he was also from Veracruz. He took the same classes that I was taking. He took French. He had the same math teachers, and he went to college. He was also undocumented at the time, so I just thought of like, okay, if he can do it and he has pretty much the same path, I can do it too. And so, I only applied to one college, which was Guilford College. And I applied there because my friend was there. He gave me a tour himself. He took me around. And, you know, thinking back, it's crazy because that was a time where not everyone had a computer. Everything was done, you had to print your application, you had to mail it, you had to call and see if they received it. You know, it was back in the day and so applying just to one college was really hard for me. It was you just felt this is an extensive, you know, sort of process getting those letters of recommendation, putting everything together to submit it to the school. And I was really grateful to have--there were two, three teachers in high school that were very supportive. My math teacher, I remember she encouraged me to take more challenging classes, like statistics. And if it wasn't for people like her that challenged me to take college prep classes and continue to push myself, I don't know that I would have had that support system that gave me the letters of recommendation and that sort of re-assured that I could do it, that I was capable. My English teacher, Mr. Ringwalt, he also went to Guilford, so he was knowledgeable with the college. He gave me that letter of recommendation. And so that was definitely--. Those years are really fun to think about because I would not--. I'm a shy person overall, but not knowing the language well can add a little pressure in terms of being nervous to speak. And so, I remember in the classroom I would never raise my hand to speak up, but I knew all the answers because I was studying really hard at home. And so, I remember one of my teachers from world history, he started telling everyone in the class that I got a hundred, it was like a hundred questions. And it was one of the final tests and I got them all right and he was telling everybody, how come just me who doesn't speak ever in class and who's still learning English, has every question right and a lot of you know the language and you still don't get it? So that was like, okay, thank you. But also, that you don't have to, you know, showcase me in front of everyone. So, I think he was fun.
DV: He was proud.
YGR: He was proud. He was highlighting, how dare you not do well. [Laughter]. And Yazmin, you know, who you know--. Everyone knew I was still learning English. I was not comfortable speaking up. The classes where I did the best were, like math--. Because I feel when I came to the U.S. my math, my level of knowledge in math was more advanced than everyone else, so for two, three years I was just, you know, going with the flow. I was not learning something new. I knew all the concepts and I knew how to do it because back in Mexico there were no calculators. Here you were given a calculator, literally was in the desk. And so I just knew how to do everything without relying, you know, on a device
DV: Wow.
YGR: So those were the classes where I--. Strategically I think it was helpful because I had friends who were Latino who, they were not good at math, but they spoke English. And so, I would be like, let me show you and help you but you help me in other classes so that's how I navigated eighth and ninth grade, I think. Just kind of exchanging the skill sets because for a lot of eighth grade--. I don't know how I passed ninth grade because I honestly didn't know anything but math. Somehow I ended up in high school and that's where I really dedicated a lot of time to watching movies and trying to learn English and really pushing myself to understand even if I wasn't able to speak fluently. So high school was definitely fun. I mean, challenges, you know, that age, that time, it's hard, bullying and stuff like that, but I feel like for me I was really focused on just trying to understand and trying to learn and trying to do well. And I think it was around, probably eleventh grade when I started to be more conscious of the barriers that I was going to be confronted with. Because I knew I wanted to go to college, I didn't know that it was going to be hard in terms of my immigration status being one of those barriers. That's when I started to hear a lot about out-of-state tuition for public universities for people who didn't have documents, and also not being able to obtain my driver's license. I went to the driver's ed class and by the end when I got my certificate is when that changed in North Carolina.
DV: Oh wow.
YGR: So, I was not able to get my driver's ed even though I went to the course just because by the time I finished is when things shifted.
DV: The rules changed.
YGR: And then there were other, sort of, institutions of higher education that were switching their policies of who could come to school. And maybe you could register but if someone else wanted to be in the class you would be kicked out and you would still have to pay out-of-state tuition or you would just not be welcome. So it was a lot of just--. It was hard. It was just hard to kind of think about where would I go. And so, meeting my friend who went to Guilford sort of opened up that one opportunity for me to think about, you know, he did it, I'm going to do it too. And somehow I made it to Guilford College. There was a program there called Bonner Scholars Program that provided scholarship support for low-income students that were interested in doing service, community service and service learning.
DV: What was the name of the program?
YGR: Bonner Scholars Program. And it's a national program, but not every school has it. That program at Guilford at the time was a four-year program where you started as a freshman and took a class and did service hours during the semester, did internship experiences during the summer, and all as a part of a cohort with your class, but also connecting to other Bonners from other classes. And I think for me, thinking back, I mean I've been aware of this for a long time that I was definitely one of--. A fortunate student that got that opportunity because not many students like myself at the time and even still now were able to have that opportunity. I think it was a combination of knowing certain people, like the program, that I got admitted to the school, my grades I guess, but also my dad helped me a lot because he was in Mexico, and he would support me financially as much as he could to be able to pay tuition.
DV: Wow.
YGR: So, the difference was that if I was to go to a public institution, I would have paid out-of-state tuition that can be like two, three times as much as the regular tuition. In Guilford College, being a private school, you get charged the same. You might not get as much help, but at least it's not more money than what you know already that you're going to get charged. And with the scholarships, we were able to piece it together. And Guilford was definitely, again, one of those shaping experiences for me because since I got to the school, I had a group of people that came along that I know had shared values in a way or shared goals of giving back to the community. And it was really cool because it was people from all over the world, from all over the United States but also all over the world. And getting to see how we're different, but we have very similar experiences, was really nice. I remember one of the trips we took which was our first-year experience summer trip, and we went to a Native American reservation for a couple weeks. And so, at that point I was undocumented, so I didn't have a driver's license. I didn't have anything but my Mexican passport and so I called my dad, and I told him that there's this trip that falls in my birthday and that I wanted to go and that, you know, there were risks because I would be flying. And he told me do you want to go, and I said yes. He's like, well, do it. So, I went on that trip pretty nervous because, I mean, I had a little fear of what could happen but thankfully everything went well. And I spent two weeks in that reservation. Some of my peers, I had peers from like Kenya and peers from different parts of Middle Eastern just like Europe and then U.S. So it was really neat to be in that space and get to know even more, like a diverse group. And I remember they asked us if we wanted to stay at a cabin or in one of the teepees. And a lot of us being international, what you would consider an international student or not an American student, we were like, we're not sleeping in the teepee. It's like, we've been there, you know, we've been already in conditions that may not be the most desirable, so we're like, no.
DV: We want to be comfortable.
YGR: Yes, we want to be comfortable. And so that was really funny to see that you just share experiences or just thinking with other peers that were trying to be more comfortable, not suffer more than we need to.
DV: What was the destination?
YGR: That was Montana.
DV: Okay.
YGR: So we were in Montana in a Native American reservation. We arrived to Billings and then drove out and everyone there in that reservation was really nice to me and to another Mexican student because we look alike. When I got to the reservation I was like, oh, is this--. It looked like people could be, you know, I could have been in Mexico because we look alike. And so, I definitely saw that treatment in a better way towards us and we got to cook for them pozole, also tacos, tacos dorados with buffalo meat. It was an interesting mix and just a really cool experience, and all that to say that, that program really shaped me because it kind of got us out of our comfort zone, got us to learn a lot about other cultures and about ways of connecting because we're people and finding those commonalities. That week when we were there, we didn't know that Obama was going to be at the reservation.
DV: Oh wow
YGR: This was when he was running for his campaign, the first time. And there were no phones, no clocks, nothing. We were like no technology, no TV. We were disconnected in the reservation, and we were told one morning after breakfast, get ready, we're going to go to this event. So, we got ready and left and it was Obama who was visiting the reservation and that was really neat. One of those really cool experiences. And then get to see him, you know, actually become president--. But going back to Bonner Scholars Program and Guilford College, I was highly involved in different activities that related to the Latino community, more specifically Latino youth or Latino students. I ran an after-school tutoring program called Latino Impact, and we went to McLeansville to a middle school and did tutoring of students. So I would have volunteers come with me and we helped with their homework. It was sixth graders for the most part, sixth, seventh, eighth graders. And then once a year, I helped to co-found a conference for Latino students called Soy Un Lider. So my fall semester, my first fall semester at Guilford, we co-founded a conference with a friend that went to high school with me. He was a senior, I was a freshman, and so he had this idea and sort of brought me on board to help co-found this one-day conference. And then he graduated, and so I felt I needed to keep it going. And we brought--.We started by bringing 150 to 200 students. And then it just grew from there every fall. And they had the experience of visiting the college, eating in the cafeteria, going to workshops, and the whole point was sharing with them information, resources that would help them to get to college, and hopefully not struggle as much as we did in not knowing what was even available or what options we had, and that was very geared towards undocumented and first-generation Latino students. And those experiences I feel like, it really gave me the ability to think through what is in our reach to push for change, what resources we have, and make the most with what you have. Because we were just, you know, college students. We would visit high schools and just talk to the administration and be like, we want to invite students. So little by little, we grew those relationships. We got school systems to provide their bus, the transportation for students to get to the conference. It was on a Saturday. We got funding from the school to pay for the breakfast and to give them gear, so it was just really cool to kind of give back in that sense. Even if it was one day, even if it was, you know, just a tiny piece of information. It was nice to see that hopefully they will hear something today that will have an impact in them. And I think for me the most favorite memory of that conference every year was coming into the cafeteria when they were eating lunch and just to see how many Latinos were in that space. And to see other students from campus walking in and just being like, who are these people? This is not the norm, right? A lot of us were one student who identifies Latino in the classroom; and so to be able to have that many people on campus and to see themselves there, but also to see other people acknowledge their presence, those are the moments that I live for in a way.
DV: So, you started it with your friend freshman year and then you continued it, until?
YGR: I continued every year until I graduated and it's still happening.
DV: Wow.
YGR: Like everything that, you know, they have up and downs in terms of leadership and support from school with administration change. And so that results in more resources or less resources that go into the conference, but it's still happening.
DV: That’s great.
YGR: And that just, you know, sort of uplifts my spirit because I know that at that moment we were focused on the Latino students. There are other students who also need that same support, like international students, refugees, asylees. And Greensboro has a large population of--. A really diverse population. So they also broadened a little bit the confidence to make sure that they were doing outreach to those students as well. So it is still happening, and it is one of those things that keeps me really close with the school, knowing that even after 10 plus years, it is still a need and there's still people who are willing to do that work. And other couple things that Guilford was, at that moment, the Latino club on campus was Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. And, you know, there's different ways that people identify themselves, so I use Latino a lot, Latina, Latinx, Hispanic. At that moment in time, from 2007 to 2011, Hispanic was the word that most people used. So, the club was Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. And we did a lot of activities throughout the year, celebrated Farm Work Awareness Week, celebrated Hispanic Heritage Month. I also was seen as an international student to Guilford because of my application. So I also did a little bit of the international club. So, I don't know, it felt like it was a small campus and had a lot of resources. And it gave me the ability to do different things and connect with different groups of students and bring them all together in a way. And so that was inspiring for me to see that, okay, people follow me. For some reason, people volunteer to help me. And it's what we need, right? We need groups of people who are excited about something. And for me, that was really energizing. And that conference, the Soy Un Lider Conference, is like I'm a leader. And sometimes, a lot of times, even students, even adults, we doubt ourselves of our abilities to do something. And I think for me, that learning lesson there was like, you might be the one leading or pushing but you need a group of people because one person cannot do it alone. And in leadership also looks different in a way. I might be a quiet leader right, but you can still do things in front of people, behind the scenes. So that's something that I really learned at that moment, and I try to remind myself because sometimes it's still hard. You know, imposter syndrome comes back, and you try to question, am I in the right place? Do I belong? Can I do this? So just thinking about that younger Yazmin who was able to do something, and people believed. And it had an impact. It helps me to move through. And you asked about internships.
DV: Right.
YGR: I did two internships that I recall more clearly. My first internship was at Student Action with Farmworkers and that was, again, an internship that my friend did. So, I was like he did it I'm going to go and do it. And he was--.
DV: The same friend?
YGR: Same friend
DV: Wow
YGR: Same friend. And so, he told me about the internship. As a Bonner Scholar, we were supposed to do an internship. And so, I worked in a clinic of Piedmont Health Services in Prospect Hill as a farm worker, outreach worker, doing outreach to farm worker camps. And so, we visited farms or like camps, we call it camps, which is the housing where farm workers live. It might be a trailer; it might be a big building that looks like a warehouse. And it can vary from like 3, 4, 5, 10 farm workers to like 150 or more farm workers. A lot of them come from Mexico and through the H-2A visa , and work in the fields for a time frame and go back home. And so, we would bring to them information around health, health education, we would take their blood pressure and talk to them about diabetes. And just trying to provide information and resources to them, connect them to the clinic if they needed an appointment, if they needed medicine. And that really, that internship is something that I feel really shaped me again because even if I grew up in Alamance County, I had no idea that just 40, 20, 30 minutes away there are farms and there's farm workers. And that a lot of them are actually from my home country and that looked like they could have been my dad, my grandpa, my granddad, or one of my siblings, or someone I know. And just to see the disparity in terms of access to healthcare, resources, and a lot of injustices that may happen because of their job. The different power dynamics that come into play. And that really got me into the sort of farm worker justice movement here
DV: It galvanized you.
YGR: Yes. In North Carolina.
DV: So this internship is happening while you're in college?
YGR: Summer yeah, a whole summer. So, during college I was doing the tutoring, I was doing the club on campus, and I was doing also the conference once a year. During the summer we had an internship, and it was--. This first one was a Student Action with Farmworkers, and this summer internship is called Into the Fields. And so it brings students from North Carolina and farmworker students from other parts of the country like Idaho, California, Texas, where there's other farm worker populations that at that time were bigger, and that--. Either it could be children of farm workers or even children that worked as farm workers at some point. So it was a really cool space because a lot of--. To be part of the internship, you had to speak Spanish. And so even those that were not Latino, like they spoke Spanish and liked the culture, and it was like a cohort, you know. Sort of a program where there's retreats, there's trainings, there is just different types of activities that help you feel more comfortable with who you are. And I think one of the things for me, too, is I didn't have a problem with being who I am because that's who I am. I grew up in Mexico, so I feel very grounded on my language and my culture, but I know other people who grow up here sometimes have a challenge because it's like, at home it's one culture and outside it's another culture so you're trying to grapple with who you are and what's okay because of the pressure. So I really got to see other students who were at the beginning a little shy to speak Spanish, or a little shy to say where they were coming from, or a little shy to dance, you know, bachata salsa whatever and then by the end they were this is who I am and like--.
DV: Embracing it.
YGR: Yeah, embracing their culture. So I loved being part of that experience and to also learn it's okay to be who I am in terms of the context of being an immigrant and having you know English as my second language, having an accent, like those things I think that those were the things that I got from the experience as well. And that having this bicultural, bilingual experience and a skill set also can contribute in different ways in the workplace, because at the end of the day we were increasing capacity for organizations that were doing this outreach. And this was at the time where there were no smartphones, so we would do outreach based on a map. We would pull a big map and then try to find the street where the camp was and then drive around the country and then try to figure out where this house is. And there would be notes like, you know, look at the tree in this intersection. A lot of farmworker housing is not like a regular housing that you can see from the road. It might be a dirt road that you have to go. And then, you know, it's kind of hidden from communities. So it's really crazy to think now that we just put something on the GPS, and it tells us, sometimes even shows you a picture of what it looks like, but back in the day, it was really pairing up with one more student, intern, or the supervisor and driving with them and figure out where the housing was. So I learned a lot and got to network a lot through that internship. I feel that led me to my second internship the following summer, which was at American Friends Service Committee, AFSC, which is a Quaker organization. And at the time it was based in Greensboro. And the director at the time of the immigrant rights program, she was also SAFista. And we call SAFista anyone who has done any SAF program, any Student Action with Farmworkers program. So she was a SAFista from back in the day, leading this program in immigrant rights and I applied for an internship there and got to learn more about the immigrant rights space like the advocacy happening at the time in general, advocacy for issues that we still face today like immigration reform, humane immigration reform, driver's license, tuition equity, all those issues that are still present. And I got to learn and be in the space and support those efforts during that summer. And that person, that director, really became one of the people, too, that became part of my support system. And I think that is what I'm really grateful for; that all throughout my journey I have found those people. Like I mentioned in high school, teachers, in my internships and in the different spaces that I was part of finding people that are going to be there for you no matter, you know, how you move in life through other spaces. She's been one of those people that has been job references for me, you know, one of those people that I call and try to ask at different points for her thoughts and feedback and that got to know me more during that time of my life. So those are the main internships that I think really took me in terms of helping me to develop my resume per se. So, by the time that I graduated, I had a lot of things. Like, I was, not just--.
DV: You were just busy.
YGR: I was busy, not just participating, but I was leading on campus and also participating in the internships. And I think that I'm grateful for that. I don't regret it. But looking back, I know that I was overcommitted. And I guess the weight that I was carrying, it was like, if I don't do it, who will do it because there were not a lot of Latino students on campus at the time. It was only a few of us. It was like three Mexican students, different classes, you know, Puerto Ricans, a couple. Some people that were adopted from Latin America and were trying to connect with their, you know, culture of the country where they were born, but there were not a lot of Latino students, so it just felt like I was trying to do it all.
DV: You felt like it was your responsibility, then?
YGR: Yes, yes, because I knew, and I was very aware that a lot of students that went to high school with me didn't make it to college. And it wasn't because they didn't want to, it was because it was not easy, or it was because they were discouraged very early on because they were told there is not going to be a way for you to do it even if you have documents. That's what really is really crazy, and I know it's still happening. If your family hasn't gone through higher ed, and if you're a person of color, if you're Latino, if you're a child of immigrants, a lot of times this system and people around it still kind of, don't see that in you or don't encourage that in you. Or even worse, like discourage you and tell you that's not an option. I know, I went to my counselor in high school, and they didn't know how to help me. There's no supports in many places still, or not enough for students. So, I definitely felt like I wanted to give back and that's why Soy Un Lider Conference focused on Alamance County, Guilford County, and Forsyth because it was sort of my hometown and surrounding counties where the conference took place. And that really sort of pushed me to do so much, which I think helped me in my professional sort of career path. But my senior year was really stressful because I was trying to graduate, fulfill my requirements. I was a business--. I was a French and business, sort of French major. Business was supposed to be my second major, but I ended up having to graduate. I think I ended up graduating with two minors in business and one more thing I don't even remember, oh my gosh. I had completed three minors, but they don't let you graduate with three minors. I had major in French and three minors in business related but I had to pick two, so I think it was business and business law. And the reason was, I was short one class to finish my major in business. But at that point I was like, I'm done, I don't need to, I didn't have the money, I didn't have the energy to come back and finish one more class to complete that business double, to have a double major. So, I was like, I'll just graduate. And I think it was just, I was so over committed and tired because I was also, towards the end, I tried to find ways to work to earn a little money so that I could still sort of be okay, because every year tuition goes up. And so, by the time I started I think it was like 10K a semester, no, 15K a semester. By the time I finished, it was way higher than that. So it was a lot of, sort of, pressure, and I was just ready to graduate. When I graduated I was still undocumented, so that year was hard, 2011 to 2012, because I had a degree and it was sort of--. I found myself in a place where a lot of people had sort of questioned, before, what are you going to do when you graduate and you still don't have documents to work. I heard that a lot during my time in college and that was hard because it's like you want to be motivated, you want to keep pushing, you want to show that you're doing the most with the opportunity, but that’s a real question that I tried to ignore because I didn't want to lose sight of my goal which was to graduate. And it was hard to kind of keep going that year just trying to figure out what am I going to do, and I knew that maybe I needed to go back to Mexico if I couldn't work here. And that's why I was going for business and French in college, because I wanted something that could maybe help me if I had to go back to my home country or end up going to a different country. I couldn't graduate with anthropology or sociology because my family would have been like what are you going to do with that, you know. What do you do with that degree in another country like Mexico. So, it was 2012, the summer of 2012 when President Obama announced the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals and that was the light that I was waiting for. That was the moment that I was preparing for. And so, I didn't doubt enrolling into the program as soon as it was an option. I remember I heard about it, I was so excited, started putting all my documents together, thinking through what they would be asking for. And as soon as the day came to be able to apply and submit an application, I was one of those first ones that I know of in my circle of friends. And I know a lot of people were fearful because, I mean, you know we don't trust the government a lot of times for various reasons, and so people were really fearful of coming forward. And then you know not knowing what really could happen once you did that. But I just felt like what am I going to lose, I don't have anything to loose. And so I applied, and I was going through that process, waiting to hear back, going to do my biometrics, my fingerprints and all that. And then I saw this job that opened up at the Student Action with Farmworkers, which was the first internship, the first organization that I interned for. And so, I was like, I'm going to apply. And so, I applied, and the position was National Organizer. And so I was going through the application process and waiting to hear back about DACA. And I went to two or three interviews, and I got a call on a Friday saying that I got the job and I was so happy. And I wanted to say yes but I still didn't have my work permit, so I asked for a couple days to think about it but I know I didn't have anything to think about. I wanted a job. I just wasn't ready.
DV: Were you giving yourself time to get those permits, maybe?
YGR: Yeah. And so, in that call I was like, oh yes, can I think about it and get back to you next week? And that weekend I got my work permit. It just felt like it was meant to be and everything lined up. So I got my work permit, I started working that December at Student Action with Farmworkers leading up to 2013. And that really opened up the doors for me in so many ways. Having DACA, being able to use--. Because a lot of jobs they don't ask you--. I mean they say preference in a degree on this, right? But they're looking at the education level, like bachelor's degree, master's degree, or whatever. And so, I had the degree, I had the experience, and I wanted to be able to do something, get a job that I was passionate about. And so DACA opened up that for me. And this organization means a lot to me because it was the first organization that opened the doors to give me an internship knowing my situation. Because I've always been pretty open about, you know, my situation and who I am, so it meant a lot for me that that was my first job. And I was there for about three, four years working in different roles as a national organizer, coordinating National Farmworker Awareness Week, doing a lot of the alumni engagement. Later became director of the youth program, so working with youth, farmworker youth, and really networking and connecting and supporting a lot of that farmworker advocacy movement in the state to improve the working and living conditions of the population. And during that time, it was towards my last year and a half working there, that I realized that I wanted to go back to school. And it was a combination of, started looking at people around me. Well, I knew I wanted to go back to school, but I didn't know for what. Because at that point, I only knew my one friend. [Laughter]. Going back to my one friend that had gone to Guilford from my high school, he went and did his MBA. And so, I knew that there was Master’s in business administration, but I was like, ah, I knew I did business in college, but that's not where my heart is. And so that was not what I wanted to do. I didn't know many people personally, you know friends, close friends or family that had a Master’s, but I started looking at everyone around me and trying to figure out what their degree was. People that I looked up to in the work. This was before LinkedIn. You couldn't just you know figure out what people's journey was. I started meeting with people for coffee. I ended up meeting with 15 or more social workers. And they were all doing different work, in farmworker-related, immigrant rights-related, just different type of work. And I was like, I want to be a social worker, because they're all doing work that I would love to be able to do, positions that I would love to have. And that's one of the reasons why I chose social work. And the other one is because I was working with the farmworker youth, and it was really working with them, their families, their siblings, their networks, because they would connect. They would know that there was a need, and they would refer people to me to try to find support and resources for them or just hear them out. And a lot of those concerns and just things that people were going through were really heavy and I didn't know how to deal with that. I couldn't go home and not think about it, or I couldn't get frustrated that there was nothing else that could be done to help them and so I knew that social work would give me a little bit more of that training on to figure out how you even help, and how do you respond, what's your role. How to push systems and how to continue to advocate for people in different ways, and that's when I ended up going to the school social work at UNC. That was a whole different journey. A whole different journey because I had been out of school for years. I still, I was DACAmented, as they say, and still had to pay out-of-state tuition if I wanted to go back to school. And it felt selfish to want to go back to school when there were a lot of people still that hadn't had the opportunity to even go to a community college or a college or university for a four-year degree, and I wanted more. So that kind of, I think I put those ideas on myself but it was just hard to kind of want more. And it was my support system, it was people around me that encouraged me to not give up and to find a way. And I met--. I had someone on Facebook that I thought it was the Facebook of this person that worked in the same building as me, and I did a lot of presentations and supported a class that happened for university students. So my support was really around farmworker information, presentations, and farmworker education for those students. So I had this person on Facebook, I thought it was this professor, but it really was that he shared that Facebook page with his wife. So it was the kids' Facebook page, and they both used it. They shared pictures of their children. So I posted something that like--. He knew that I wanted to go to school. I posted that I was trying to go to school, trying to find resources, scholarships and all that. And he connected me with his wife and said: I think you really want to talk to my wife, you should meet. She's also a social worker. And she wants to help you. And I didn't know that this whole time she had been--. She knew who I was because of Facebook, and so I met with her a weekend in this office, in her office, and we came up with a plan on how I was going to be able to go to grad school.
DV: Wow.
YGR: Like, who I needed to reach out to at the school, how I was going to try to pull in enough funding. And I walked away from her office with this big sheet of paper with everything on it and I really went on that path. I ended up having to fundraise for my education because there were not many scholarships for students like me. The ones that were available I applied out of the school, and I didn't get those. Very competitive national scholarships. And people like her and others connected me with people at the School of Social Work. Everyone at the School of Social Work knew that I was coming, who I was. There had seen emails about me, people advocating for me to be thought of for a scholarship support. It could be a little embarrassing. [Laughter]. You know, because people were like, this is just me and this is everything she's done, and she would be amazing, and these are the challenges that she has. So I think for me the most difficult part was to try to fundraise. And the moments that really were like--. That brought me a lot of joy. And just what surprised me a lot is people that didn't know me that supported me. Like people in my network spoke highly of me to their network and I got checks from people that I had never met. And some people didn't want me--. They wanted to be anonymous, they didn't need me to contact them and thank them and I was like I want to thank you, I want to know who you are. And people from my community, people from the community where I grew up also supported that.
DV: In Mexico?
YGR: Here.
DV: Oh, here.
YGR: Here in Alamance County. And so, to me it meant people believe in me, people are cheering for me, supporting me. And so I just went all in and fundraised for my whole grad school cost, and went into grad school trying to be the best student ever. Like read everything and do everything. I got to be an RA all throughout both years and the summer and learn from different professors. It was really one of those, again, life-changing experiences, because I never thought I would be able to be there. Even with DACA, even with a driver's license and a social security number, it's still a place that is not that accessible to DACAmented and undocumented students. So it felt surreal. And also hard because you're one of a few Latino students. There was, not that I knew of, any other student that was in the same situation that I was. And it's an institution at the end of the day, so there's things that could be better. We're always, as students, we're always challenging the system. We're always questioning, especially at the School of Social Work where in the code of ethics it's like social justice is one of those things that, you know, we care about. So it was interesting because I was sort of part of the advocacy but also working for professors and being an RA for the assistant dean, and you know. [Laughter]. Pushing here, but also this is my research assistantship and this is how I'm able to be in school. Because I was working for the school so that they could help me with my tuition, with part of the tuition, at least not pay out-of-state tuition, but pay it sort of the mid-level point through the funding that the research assistantship came with. So it was an incredible experience and I was able to do a couple internships there at the Hispanic Family Center through Catholic Charities in Raleigh. And then my final internship was an internship that I found on my own. It wasn't one listed. The list of internships, there was nothing that really spoke to me. And so I went to try to find an organization that had a social worker that could supervise me and that had the work that I wanted to do. And so I reached out to the American Civil Liberties Union who had two social workers. I knew one of them and I ended up being an intern there. And that's when DACA was rescinded. So it was when the Trump administration was trying to get rid of DACA and it was very fearful because DACA is what had opened the doors for me, it was the way that I could work for the school and finish grad school. And so I was in the middle trying to keep organizations informed, like support on that end, trying to support the advocacy efforts and be part of that work again, now as a grad student. Very nerve-wracking too because I felt like, I don't know, I just--. You just put ideas on yourself. I was--. The expectations are high on how I'm supposed to, you know, do the work because now I'm in grad school. I just felt it was I have to do my best and even better than, you know, two years ago because I'm a grad student and I put a lot of pressure on myself at that time. And I was able graduate from the School of Social Work and land on my first job. I applied for different things that felt sort of comparable, like going back to the farmworker space. I tried to get into philanthropy which didn't work at the time. I was seen as very young, not a lot of experience on that sort of area. And then I ended up being sort of recruited or encouraged to apply for a position at the hospital in town. And it was working under the supervision of the person that was really crucial in helping me come up with a plan on how I was going to get to grad school. That woman that I mentioned that brought me to her office, that I knew her husband, and so also social worker. And I ended up applying for jobs. I got a job in farmworker health and I declined that job and ended up coming to work for the hospital. And I actually, I don't know, it's full circle in a way because I got to work in the community where I grew up, got to learn, got to meet more people. And understand the dynamics that happen in the county between non-profits, hospital, health department, things that work, things that could be better, contributing in the ways that I could to make spaces more welcoming of Latinos. Or try to bring a little bit more awareness of why you might not be seeing Latinos and how you could improve in your outreach. And having the supervisor I had was an amazing experience because she was a leader that tried to uplift and to give you the tools you needed to do what needed to be done. And it was a little crazy when she said that she wasn't in the office much because she was covering a broader region and that she was going to give me her office. And I was like, what?! The office where I first met her to come up with a plan on how I was going to get to grad school. That's what it meant to me. I was like, the office with three windows, I'm getting that office? So that just felt like, oh my god, full circle. I can't believe that two years ago, two and a half years ago, I was sitting in this office not knowing that I was going to be able to go to grad school and not knowing that I was going to be able to, you know, move on in my career thanks to having a master's degree.
DV: Wow.
YGR: And that work in the hospital was really rewarding, was really hard, too, because it was coming--. It was putting me out of my comfort zone not being in the immigrant rights space, farmworker advocacy space where everyone is aware of the community needs or trying to serve or have that shared goal. It was more of just different people, right, with different jobs, serving the broader community, very mainstream in a way, where there were little to no Latinos in the spaces where I was moving. And so that was hard to navigate, but also rewarding to see little by little sort of the impact of just my presence or a comment or a question or my--. Or giving input. We were able to do a lot of programming to grow the programming for the Latino population in Alamance County, connect people to resources that were available for free or little cost like mammogram, you know, just information on pre-diabetes, like connecting people to different resources. And that's when the pandemic hit. And that's when we all shut down in terms of showing up to the office. And my supervisor being very supportive allowed me to do the work that I thought was needed, which was to support with basic needs to the community because people were staying home, losing their jobs or not being able to work, like not having food. It was just really like a chaos. And so I worked closely with the Dream Center in Burlington. Past Lisa had this idea of doing a food giveaway and trying to find meals and give it out to the community. And it was literally her family, my husband and I, and one more couple on the first day. And they bought food, they found funding, and I came up with ways to improve our system. I supported that day. We had cars coming through one end of the building going all around and we had a tent we were giving out the food it was very, like, the first day was a mess. It was good but it was like we were just trying to improve, and we served, I don't know if the first day we served like 120 families. I don't know, a crazy number of just cars that came by and we just gave them food and you know trying to have PPE on us and protect ourselves and protect others but give food. And that just grew and grew and grew and every week we were giving more and more food. So many people came along to help after that first day, we had nonprofits showing up, Elon University leadership, people from the city of Burlington, the mayor was out there, former mayor was there giving out food. And just different people came and helped and it just grew from giving this full menu that people can choose from American and Latino food and diapers and fruit and getting donations and giving out masks and giving out, you know, what we could. And it was definitely like--. Thursday was the day where even people that didn't know what was going on they would see the lines of cars and would come and get in line. They were like we don't know what's happening, but everybody's coming so we want to come and see. And it had a huge impact on nonprofits and organizations who had heard about Latinos, who had heard about the Dream Center, but really didn't come close yet, so they got to see the community and that was impactful too because a lot of times people may ask where are the Latinos, right? They're not coming, and we're here, we're part of the community. They're just busy working jobs that sometimes are not visible and they're keeping to themselves because it's what's comfortable and it's what feels safe. And the Dream Center became that sort of place that a lot of people start to recognize the habit trust in the community that was in the, in the part of town where we needed resources the most. And so, it was really neat to be able to give back during those times that were really difficult. That was before testing. Then testing came around and we coordinated, I helped to coordinate in the county different places for testing. We were going to the places in the community where we could see the higher rates or where we wouldn't, we didn't see rates because we also thought people were not being tested there. In rural parts of the county, different parts of the county, and it was free testing for anyone that wanted it in a drive-thru sort of way in collaboration with the health department. And so I was in that time when I got a call that my dad was feeling, was ill, was not doing well in Mexico, and had to go back to Mexico. And he had gotten COVID, it was July, and he didn't make it. So that was really hard because I was here, you know in the response and trying to provide what I could to the community and then my dad was home, not feeling well, not telling us for some days because, my dad. And I got to Mexico and by the time I got there he was at a hospital, and I was not able to go in. I was not able to see him. And that just was so hard for my family and for myself. And a lot to kind of deal with and process in that sort of very scary way of you not being able to be there for your loved one, you not being able to even do the proper traditional way of a funeral. Or doing the things that we usually would do for the people we love. And so that 2020 was definitely a rough year for me and then coming back to--. Having to come back and go back to work and still processing that for a long time. And my husband was running for office, too, at that time, so it was a lot to kind of grieve for my dad, be strong for family, and support my husband as he was running his first campaign for office. And that fall is when, I was supposed to become a citizen in March, but it happened that the pandemic got here and everything got shut down, so it got pushed to October, and I was able to become a citizen in October. And that was sort of, one of the first sort of big painful moments because it was one of the first few life milestones that I wasn't able to call my dad and tell him. And I remember that being really hard just because it's a moment that I should be happy but it was, you know--. When he, when someone you love is no longer a part of your life, it's really hard to kind of figure out the thing that I would do is not something that I can do anymore. But I guess the little happiness or the little sort of moment that brought comfort was knowing that, I feel like I know that he's with me, you know, in different ways now and that he would be happy for me. And also, that same day, because of the pandemic, it was very weird citizenship ceremony where it was three of us in this huge room and nobody else could come into the building. They asked the questions. They did my interview, my final interview, and then right away put us in this room for the oath. So I did everything in one day instead of doing two parts as usually the process would be, and then I got out of there and drove directly to early voting. It was the last day of early voting, and so I registered to vote during early voting before it closed, and I voted for my husband. And I was like, I cannot believe that this is happening and then drive straight to the library to request my passport because I was like, there's no going back, they can't take this away from me. I'm going to do everything I need to do--.
DV: Yeah, you made it.
YGR: To get this, you know, to get to this point. So it was a full day of, you know, just--. I feel like I was running, before anybody changed their mind, to do what I needed to do. So 2020 was definitely bittersweet in many ways, for many of us, but definitely very high highs and very low lows. And then that fall I got a call from a friend that said, do you want to do the work that you're doing at the county level but at the state? And I was like, no, I got enough with my county. There's plenty of work to do here and I'm doing all I can. And I was like, still doing the work with the hospital, canvassing. Well we were starting to do lid drops, not canvassing, that fall, and just juggling everything and grieving. And it was probably a month later that I saw the job description for the job that I have now and I fell in love with it because it was the focus on the Latino community, it was really working at a systems level. It felt that every part of my journey was leading me to this job, from a personal, to a professional, to an educational experience. And so, I put my name in the hat. I applied, went through three interviews and was waiting to hear back and left to Mexico to see family. It was probably between November and December. I think it was like November, December.
DV: Still 2020?
YGR: In 2020. November December of 2020. I applied around September, October and then it was November, December, I was in Mexico riding a taxi with my husband. An old taxi, it was an old car, you could hear the engine, one of those cars. And so, I got a call from who would be my supervisor and I was in this car and the engine you could hear the eeeeh, and I was like this is embarrassing but I have to talk to her. So my husband try to tell the taxi driver to pull to the side because literally the sound was horrible and so he pulled over. And then she gave me the job offer and she said that, you know, congratulations you got the job. Gave me a little bit of information and said that I could review the documents that were coming to my email and then get back to them. And so that moment is very memorable because I was in Mexico, you know, the place where I was born, the city where I was born. And then getting to--. I'm getting to hear that I got a job working in the government in this place that I went to for better life and better opportunities, in a taxi with this horrible noise. And so that was really the moment that, you know, sort of shaped what was to come for the next two-plus years now. Came back, started working in January and it was really hard for many months working about 15 hours every day non-stop, no weekends, no evenings. Really being part of that early, since the very early stage of vaccine distribution, COVID-19 vaccine distribution in the state and prevention work. And having the weight of knowing that the Latino population was disproportionately impacted by COVID, and knowing that farmworkers were impacted, that meat-processing plant workers were impacted, just frontline workers who for the most part were Latino, were impacted and trying to do all I could to be part of that response. So it was a lot.
DV: What had happened with your dad, did you have that in your mind also when you went through that work?
YGR: Yes, yes and I was trying, you know, had a lot of--. I did seek therapy that didn't work. Didn't work, the therapist that I found was not a good fit and I was like, I'm wasting my time and I didn't have time to look for another therapist, but I had friends and people that were there for me. I know that it's hard, when you have a friend that is going through that you sometimes don't know how to act, you don't know what to say, you don't know how to support. But I did have people that were there for me and talked to me, you know, said: why are you doing this? Are you doing this for your dad? Also, don't feel like you have to sacrifice or like--. Not sacrifice yourself, but put yourself in a place where it's also painful because it's a reminder, right? And so I thought it through, and I know that part of me was trying to prevent the suffering of other families, and I do all I can to be part of that response because I know it was real. A lot of people were like, COVID is not real. And I was like, COVID is real. COVID is the reason why my dad is no longer here. And I think for me it was a part of giving back and trying to alleviate the situation as much as possible, or contribute to or control the pandemic, or prevent the spread. But also because I think this is my life's work. I never think about, in my path, in my career, it's never been about a position and a title, it's been about the work. What about this role will speak to me and will make a difference to the community that I care about? And that is sort of what drives me. And that's what really drove me to this job, looking at the job description and the possibilities, knowing that it was going to be really, really hard, knowing that I was going to end up working within an institution that was being held accountable by the advocacy groups that I was part of in previous roles. So it was a lot of--. It was really hard emotionally to navigate that because now I'm part of the system, right? And so being that bridge builder but also at times taking it all, and trying to help with solutions. But at the end of the day, now I'm the face or I became the face during those moments of what was not right, or what could be better and needed to be better with the same people that I was colleagues, you know, for a long time in the movement. So that was a hard shift and trying to--. I knew that I am here to improve the strategies, the initiatives, to make sure that we have a lens of the community, to look at policies and interventions and ways that we can be better. In that moment, it was specific to COVID-19, but also kind of showing people, feeling that I had to show people that I'm still me and I'm still here for the right reasons, even though I'm not part of the outside advocacy. So that was shift, it was the first time that I found myself in that sort of dynamic scenario. And it's been a really rewarding experience. It's been hard. It's been an adjustment, learning how government works. And it's also, for me, I'm really grateful to have been part of that team that was part of COVID-19 response at the state level because I saw that everybody was working nonstop and giving their all. And they had been there since the beginning, like the prior year when I was at the county level. So, the county-level work was hard physically because we were doing the food distribution, mentally, emotionally, but it was not the level of pressure at the state that I came to in 2021, and that I had to kind of, to do that work. And I think the other thing that has been rewarding there is to try to shape my job because it was the first time that this position was created, so there was not before anybody in this role. So try to establish myself and show people that I'm about collaboration, I'm about improving the work together. It is a system, it's huge. There's different things that could be better and trying to focus on what can we actually accomplish in the time that we have. And also I've gotten to work with students who are getting their Master’s of Social Work so now I get to, by this point I've had three students, supervised three students, that are becoming social workers who are Latina, who are bicultural with different life experiences, who have been in North Carolina, either were born here, grew up here, have been here for some time. And so that feels to me that is a part--. I've identified that that is a part that is important to me. Even if it's middle school, which is our ( ) age, high school, youth, just making sure that we're still working on that pipeline. Because this work is hard, and we need more people. I don't know why I'm getting emotional.
DV: It's okay.
YGR: I think it's--. What feels heavy a lot of times is that one person cannot change everything and many people are that one person in their space. And it's not fair to them, to the community, to the people. That we need more representation and I think that's what this pandemic really--. I hope that it's the lesson learned for everyone around that we can't wait for a global pandemic to realize that we're not representing the communities that we serve, that we don't have that representation for many systematic reasons, but also it's not the fault of people. From the education system to immigration system, to different systems at play that are not letting people move on to opportunities and be in those spaces. And from policies and practices that come into play, you know, who is being hired, who's given a chance, who's given a scholarship, looking at population, like do we have enough people at the table to be part of the solutions, to serve, so that people feel comfortable. I think that is the work ahead of ourselves. Right now, as we're coming out of this pandemic and everything is kind of going back to normal: not losing sight of what we learned, what was hard, and what we need to continue to implement that was done during COVID in, some shape or form, and continue to make it better. So I think that's what's on my mind a lot these days. Because I tell people, I did feel the pressure of people saying, oh you're the Latina doing all this work, but I'm like, I don't speak for all the Latino population. The Latino population is not monolithic. It's very diverse in so many ways. And I bring perspectives, I bring information, I bring research, I inform. And also, it should be more than one person. All throughout organizations, it should be that way, that people are either aware, knowledgeable, or they are representing the demographics that North Carolina is now. Because it's not like when I first went to high school, that I was the only Latina, you know, in my classroom. Now looking at Alamance County and seeing different schools that have sometimes even 40% Latino, and I could not dream of that when I was growing up. That was something that I didn't experience, right? So we need to make sure that we are setting those infrastructures in place to support the population, especially because--. I mean, I think North Carolina has grew a lot over the last 20 years in terms of demographics in the Latino population and our Latino population right now is still relatively young, but we're going to age and those systems need to be in place to be able to support the community. And so, this pandemic could have been worse in terms of death rates if we had been an older population. And we're not done confronting health disparities, chronic illnesses and everything that's to come.
DV: So that's what's on your mind for now in your current role?
YGR: Yes.
DV: So, considering all of these experiences, Yazmin, what would you say were the main factors that helped you along the way, that shaped the leadership that you have exhibited and continue to exhibit in your role?
YGR: I would say, I don't know. This is a hard one because I think there's definitely people, there's things that I've mentioned, like the people that have been part of my support system. The opportunities that I got that I know that not many people in my time, that share similar experiences, had. I think that, I don't know the word in English, sometimes this one goes away, but like, soy necia. I get into an idea, like I get like--. I think about this is what I want to do, and I just go for it. No matter if people are telling me, you're crazy, that's not doable, why, that's too much this, too much that, I just focus and go and do it. And in a way, I think it can be bad in different ways, you know. But in this case, just setting my mind to something has helped me, even when things were hard. And really having that support system: being family, being friends, being my husband, who believe in me and continue to encourage me and push me to do what I need to do, has been important. And we all have, you know, ups and downs, like there's definitely times and days where it's hard and I think about the why, right? I think about how I started, where I am, where were the possibilities. Knowing that the possibilities are endless, and we just have to keep pushing and that's something that I tell other young people. You never know, you can't just give up because you never know the opportunities that will come later and that's what happened for me. I went to school, to college not knowing that DACA was going to be a thing. And then I got DACA and then I pushed to try to go to grad school not knowing that I was actually going to be able to finish. And I never thought I would be able to become a citizen so you never know the path but you only do, you can only do what's in your control and that's what sort of keeps pushing me. I'm not able to fix everything but what's in my reach, I'll try to do. And it's the people that I've had, the motivation, the sacrifices of my family like my grandparents. For many, many years, my grandparents were in my mind a lot because I know sort of the challenges that they faced, the humble beginnings that they had, how they did all they could for their children. Now, with everything that I've gone through, my dad is on my mind a lot because I know how hard he worked, how much he supported me, how much he cared. His own way he showed us that he loved us. He was not very--.
DV: Affectionate.
YGR: Affectionate, but he showed us in his own ways, and he worked really hard. He was well respected in his job. Dedicated. For him, his job was like life, which sometimes can be bad, and I try to walk myself back when I am getting to that sort of mindset. There's more to life than just work. There’re other things. But I think for me, my job is also sort of my way of being a productive member of society and giving back and making--. Doing my best to make things a little better if even if it's in a small way. That's what sort of drives me. People that I love that I look up to or that were an important part of my life, and of course my mother, who is, who has been an amazing force for me. Yeah, just like thinking about people who have been there for me and what I can do for others. I think that's sort of what has helped me along the way. And I do want to believe that there's a God that has looked out for me because I would not be here in many ways. Just being an immigrant, you know, going through different experiences, something could have happened to me at different parts of my life to derail me from the path. Or to not even be alive, you know. Different kinds of ways. So, I am definitely grateful for that. And what motivates me a lot too, is that I'm not the only one. This is my story and is unique. But there's many stories like mine, and now we're getting to see more and more and more of that. And that really motivates me because during the time that I was sort of growing up and going to college and stuff like that, people would not talk about their experience or they would protect it, which it's so understandable. But now we have more and more people talking about it, bringing awareness, and pushing and advocating, and we're still in the same spot. DACA has been challenged. You know, new people, people who are coming of age cannot apply for DACA even if they qualify. There are no new applications that are being received. So we're not in a better place, even if many, many years have passed. Out of state tuition is still, you know, an issue. Access to driver's license for people is still an issue, immigration reform. So we are not where we need to be, but there's more people coming in and being part of that fight, and that is very motivating.
DV: Speaking of motivation and to conclude our interview, and you've already mentioned a little bit about future leaders, but thinking of all of your experiences, what advice would you give future Latino leaders so that perhaps you're not the only one in the space?
YGR: I think I would highlight unity and common goals. Like I mentioned, the Latino population, Latinx Hispanic population is very diverse in many ways. Immigration experience or, you know, maybe growing up here, generationally, too. We're so diverse. And I think what I would sort of highlight for leaders is the importance of working together and the importance of supporting each other and also the understanding that leadership looks different. And we need all kinds of leadership, and we need all kinds of strategies and advocacy, because I really see this as an ecosystem where different things are happening, and they build on each other and they help each other. And as the leadership grows and as the movement continues to, sort of, expand, I think as a community we got to work together and respect each other and make space for different voices. And I'm thinking very specific about the younger sort of age groups, that we all were young at one point, and we all thought that we could change the world at one point. And we need those mindsets because it is tiring. This journey is tiring. Someone texted me: the struggle is forever, after something happened and now it's like, yes, it's so real, the struggle is forever. We have to take care of each other. We have to take care of ourselves. We have to respect the different ways that people go about strategizing and, you know, fighting maybe within the system, maybe outside of the system, maybe in different ways, but we're not the enemy. Each other, we're not the enemy. We're just trying to move, work alone, and so I think it's important for us to keep that in mind and bring others along into the different spaces. If you have the opportunity to support other people, what better way than to, you know, take advantage of that? And also, if you have been in the space for a long time, hear from other voices and hear about what they're saying and make room in the space that you are to, like, have those people sit at the table. Because I feel that's something definitely that I have seen a lot in our state in terms of dynamics that happen, and that is not really doing us any good. It's actually taking away from the work that should be done. And just to not give up. I mean, I feel everyone's experience and everyone's journey is valid. We need to just sort of embrace each other. That is sort of what I feel I learned at Guilford when I was in the Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. We came together and we were all different, Latinos with different experiences from different walks of life, different countries, and just reassuring: yes, you are here, and you matter, and you are Latino no matter what. Who can, like, nobody can question that. No matter if you speak Spanish or not, no matter if you know how to salsa or not. There is no checklist of this is who you are as a Latino, and this is what makes you a leader. We all have different types of ways that we identify ourselves, different ways that we connect to our culture, different ways that we bring leadership to spaces. And I think because sometimes being the only one, or one of the only ones, that imposter syndrome can come, no matter how long you've been in the work, it’s really helpful when you have that support system and that little group or that person that understands you and supports you. And you can be that to someone else. And I think sharing our experiences and sharing the struggles can also help because you never know who can identify with you and who will hear that and make an impact. Just like my one friend [laughter] who I have followed all throughout. We're actually neighbors right now. We live really around the corner.
DV: Wow.
YGR: But one, one person--. I learned this recently. I spoke at a women's march when Women's March was a thing. I forgot what year, but I spoke at a women's march and there was someone in the audience that what I said resonated with her. Also undocumented, with similar experiences, trying to figure out how to make it to higher education. I was at grad school at the time. And recently she attended a conference and talked to someone else I know. And the question was, what was a time or who was someone that inspired you or something? And she talked about me, and she said, I went to these Women's March, and I heard this speaker that shared different things that I connected with, and that resonated with me. And my friend knew that I spoke to that, in that march, and so she was like, was this her? [Laughter]. And, and, you know, it's like, what?! That was years ago. And I was so scared to speak up and I was so scared to share my story. No matter how open I have been it's always, you know, nerve wracking in front of hundreds of people. And knowing that I said something that this young person was impacted by, and now she is incredible. She is an incredible advocate, doing a lot of advocacies and lobbying at the state level for immigrant rights. I'm inspired by her. But it's just funny to see how we have different points, and you never know when you say something, that person might be needing to hear those words. And she connected with that. So I wanted to cry when that was like, what? She, you know, Women's March--. And she's doing this incredible work and something I said inspired her to keep going. So I think that would be my one last sort of advice to others. You never know who you're impacting, so make sure that you're sharing your experiences with others.
DV: Well, thank you very much for sharing your journey and your story with us today. And your wisdom. Thank you very much.
YGR: Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcribers: Sofia Godoy & Daniel Velásquez
Interview Date: 2023 April 21
Date of Transcription: 2023 July 25. Revisions: 2023 31 August
Es: Transcripción
Daniel Velásquez: I'm Daniel Velasquez. Today is April 21st, 2023. I'm here today with Yazmin García Rico, who is Director of Latinx and Hispanic Policy and Strategy at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services. Yazmin, thank you so much for sitting with me today for your oral history.
Yazmin García Rico: Thank you so much for having me.
DV: Okay, Yazmin, let's get started with some basic information. Could you tell me about your personal background? Where were you born and raised and any early life experiences that you would like to share?
YGR: Yeah, so a little bit about myself. I was born in Orizaba, Veracruz, Mexico, which is, Veracruz is in the Gulf Coast, and I was there for the first few years of my life. Some of the experiences that are the most memorable are really the times that I spent with my grandparents who were very crucial in my upbringing. I really enjoyed spending time in their house, eating the food that my grandma used to make, and I am just really grateful for the time that I had with them. They both passed away when I was in the US, so I didn't get a chance to see them in the last couple years of their lives or last few years of their lives. So, it's something that I really cherish a lot. And I also remember a lot the train, for some reason, because the train was a very, sort of, central part of my life. My dad used to work for the railroad company of Mexico and so we used to travel in the train to see family. I could hear the train from my house, from my grandparents’ house, and so I think for me that reminds me even here now as an adult every time I hear the train I think of home, I think of my dad and really what I think he wanted us to learn from him which is work ethic and dedication to, you know, to whatever you're passionate about. So, Mexico, when I think of, you know, childhood, I think of Mexico. I think about my culture and in a completely different life in a way because everyone around me looked like me. And I think that really shaped me in a way that may be different for other people that don't have that same experience.
DV: Thank you. What brought you to the United States, and to North Carolina, specifically?
YGR: So, I think definitely it was to seek a better life, to have a little bit more stability financially and more opportunities in terms of an education. I remember thinking about maybe one day I'll grow up and I'll be able to work for the government, which was crazy to think about as a child. So, when it actually happened was it like, oh, you know, I did think that I probably was around 13, 12 when I had that idea. One of the ideas crossed my mind, I think I was like--. I watched a lot of movies and American shows and, I don't know what I watched at that moment but I remember thinking about growing up and doing a job that served in government, in that capacity. So that's the initial reason why I ended up in the United States, not really knowing the complexity and the, you know, challenges and how life would be. I only had movies as a, you know, baseline of what the United States was.
DV: Tell us about your education and any other formative experiences here in North Carolina. I know that you've held many internships and have been involved in various volunteer positions. And you probably have gained some leadership experience along the way, so tell us about all that.
YGR: Yeah, so this is for me a long journey. [Laughter]
DV: Okay.
YGR: For me, being able to get an education really has been a path that has taken a long time. I got to the US when I was about 13 years old and I started eighth grade. So the first couple years were really trying to get a sense of the school, the language, the culture. I had no idea what Thanksgiving was, Halloween, just different things that are the normal here that I didn't have awareness of. So I had to learn a lot about just the culture in the South too, if you add that layer. So, education was something that I was always interested in. I don't think it was ever a question for me if I was going to go to college. At that point I just didn't know how, but I knew I wanted to go to college. And so going through high school I think that was really when I developed a little bit more in my understanding of English and I still tried to grasp a sense of what everyone around me already knew and that I was trying to, you know, catch up with. I only knew about one school, one college, and that's because a friend of mine in high school who was three years older, I was a freshman he was a senior, he was also from Veracruz. He took the same classes that I was taking. He took French. He had the same math teachers, and he went to college. He was also undocumented at the time, so I just thought of like, okay, if he can do it and he has pretty much the same path, I can do it too. And so, I only applied to one college, which was Guilford College. And I applied there because my friend was there. He gave me a tour himself. He took me around. And, you know, thinking back, it's crazy because that was a time where not everyone had a computer. Everything was done, you had to print your application, you had to mail it, you had to call and see if they received it. You know, it was back in the day and so applying just to one college was really hard for me. It was you just felt this is an extensive, you know, sort of process getting those letters of recommendation, putting everything together to submit it to the school. And I was really grateful to have--there were two, three teachers in high school that were very supportive. My math teacher, I remember she encouraged me to take more challenging classes, like statistics. And if it wasn't for people like her that challenged me to take college prep classes and continue to push myself, I don't know that I would have had that support system that gave me the letters of recommendation and that sort of re-assured that I could do it, that I was capable. My English teacher, Mr. Ringwalt, he also went to Guilford, so he was knowledgeable with the college. He gave me that letter of recommendation. And so that was definitely--. Those years are really fun to think about because I would not--. I'm a shy person overall, but not knowing the language well can add a little pressure in terms of being nervous to speak. And so, I remember in the classroom I would never raise my hand to speak up, but I knew all the answers because I was studying really hard at home. And so, I remember one of my teachers from world history, he started telling everyone in the class that I got a hundred, it was like a hundred questions. And it was one of the final tests and I got them all right and he was telling everybody, how come just me who doesn't speak ever in class and who's still learning English, has every question right and a lot of you know the language and you still don't get it? So that was like, okay, thank you. But also, that you don't have to, you know, showcase me in front of everyone. So, I think he was fun.
DV: He was proud.
YGR: He was proud. He was highlighting, how dare you not do well. [Laughter]. And Yazmin, you know, who you know--. Everyone knew I was still learning English. I was not comfortable speaking up. The classes where I did the best were, like math--. Because I feel when I came to the U.S. my math, my level of knowledge in math was more advanced than everyone else, so for two, three years I was just, you know, going with the flow. I was not learning something new. I knew all the concepts and I knew how to do it because back in Mexico there were no calculators. Here you were given a calculator, literally was in the desk. And so I just knew how to do everything without relying, you know, on a device
DV: Wow.
YGR: So those were the classes where I--. Strategically I think it was helpful because I had friends who were Latino who, they were not good at math, but they spoke English. And so, I would be like, let me show you and help you but you help me in other classes so that's how I navigated eighth and ninth grade, I think. Just kind of exchanging the skill sets because for a lot of eighth grade--. I don't know how I passed ninth grade because I honestly didn't know anything but math. Somehow I ended up in high school and that's where I really dedicated a lot of time to watching movies and trying to learn English and really pushing myself to understand even if I wasn't able to speak fluently. So high school was definitely fun. I mean, challenges, you know, that age, that time, it's hard, bullying and stuff like that, but I feel like for me I was really focused on just trying to understand and trying to learn and trying to do well. And I think it was around, probably eleventh grade when I started to be more conscious of the barriers that I was going to be confronted with. Because I knew I wanted to go to college, I didn't know that it was going to be hard in terms of my immigration status being one of those barriers. That's when I started to hear a lot about out-of-state tuition for public universities for people who didn't have documents, and also not being able to obtain my driver's license. I went to the driver's ed class and by the end when I got my certificate is when that changed in North Carolina.
DV: Oh wow.
YGR: So, I was not able to get my driver's ed even though I went to the course just because by the time I finished is when things shifted.
DV: The rules changed.
YGR: And then there were other, sort of, institutions of higher education that were switching their policies of who could come to school. And maybe you could register but if someone else wanted to be in the class you would be kicked out and you would still have to pay out-of-state tuition or you would just not be welcome. So it was a lot of just--. It was hard. It was just hard to kind of think about where would I go. And so, meeting my friend who went to Guilford sort of opened up that one opportunity for me to think about, you know, he did it, I'm going to do it too. And somehow I made it to Guilford College. There was a program there called Bonner Scholars Program that provided scholarship support for low-income students that were interested in doing service, community service and service learning.
DV: What was the name of the program?
YGR: Bonner Scholars Program. And it's a national program, but not every school has it. That program at Guilford at the time was a four-year program where you started as a freshman and took a class and did service hours during the semester, did internship experiences during the summer, and all as a part of a cohort with your class, but also connecting to other Bonners from other classes. And I think for me, thinking back, I mean I've been aware of this for a long time that I was definitely one of--. A fortunate student that got that opportunity because not many students like myself at the time and even still now were able to have that opportunity. I think it was a combination of knowing certain people, like the program, that I got admitted to the school, my grades I guess, but also my dad helped me a lot because he was in Mexico, and he would support me financially as much as he could to be able to pay tuition.
DV: Wow.
YGR: So, the difference was that if I was to go to a public institution, I would have paid out-of-state tuition that can be like two, three times as much as the regular tuition. In Guilford College, being a private school, you get charged the same. You might not get as much help, but at least it's not more money than what you know already that you're going to get charged. And with the scholarships, we were able to piece it together. And Guilford was definitely, again, one of those shaping experiences for me because since I got to the school, I had a group of people that came along that I know had shared values in a way or shared goals of giving back to the community. And it was really cool because it was people from all over the world, from all over the United States but also all over the world. And getting to see how we're different, but we have very similar experiences, was really nice. I remember one of the trips we took which was our first-year experience summer trip, and we went to a Native American reservation for a couple weeks. And so, at that point I was undocumented, so I didn't have a driver's license. I didn't have anything but my Mexican passport and so I called my dad, and I told him that there's this trip that falls in my birthday and that I wanted to go and that, you know, there were risks because I would be flying. And he told me do you want to go, and I said yes. He's like, well, do it. So, I went on that trip pretty nervous because, I mean, I had a little fear of what could happen but thankfully everything went well. And I spent two weeks in that reservation. Some of my peers, I had peers from like Kenya and peers from different parts of Middle Eastern just like Europe and then U.S. So it was really neat to be in that space and get to know even more, like a diverse group. And I remember they asked us if we wanted to stay at a cabin or in one of the teepees. And a lot of us being international, what you would consider an international student or not an American student, we were like, we're not sleeping in the teepee. It's like, we've been there, you know, we've been already in conditions that may not be the most desirable, so we're like, no.
DV: We want to be comfortable.
YGR: Yes, we want to be comfortable. And so that was really funny to see that you just share experiences or just thinking with other peers that were trying to be more comfortable, not suffer more than we need to.
DV: What was the destination?
YGR: That was Montana.
DV: Okay.
YGR: So we were in Montana in a Native American reservation. We arrived to Billings and then drove out and everyone there in that reservation was really nice to me and to another Mexican student because we look alike. When I got to the reservation I was like, oh, is this--. It looked like people could be, you know, I could have been in Mexico because we look alike. And so, I definitely saw that treatment in a better way towards us and we got to cook for them pozole, also tacos, tacos dorados with buffalo meat. It was an interesting mix and just a really cool experience, and all that to say that, that program really shaped me because it kind of got us out of our comfort zone, got us to learn a lot about other cultures and about ways of connecting because we're people and finding those commonalities. That week when we were there, we didn't know that Obama was going to be at the reservation.
DV: Oh wow
YGR: This was when he was running for his campaign, the first time. And there were no phones, no clocks, nothing. We were like no technology, no TV. We were disconnected in the reservation, and we were told one morning after breakfast, get ready, we're going to go to this event. So, we got ready and left and it was Obama who was visiting the reservation and that was really neat. One of those really cool experiences. And then get to see him, you know, actually become president--. But going back to Bonner Scholars Program and Guilford College, I was highly involved in different activities that related to the Latino community, more specifically Latino youth or Latino students. I ran an after-school tutoring program called Latino Impact, and we went to McLeansville to a middle school and did tutoring of students. So I would have volunteers come with me and we helped with their homework. It was sixth graders for the most part, sixth, seventh, eighth graders. And then once a year, I helped to co-found a conference for Latino students called Soy Un Lider. So my fall semester, my first fall semester at Guilford, we co-founded a conference with a friend that went to high school with me. He was a senior, I was a freshman, and so he had this idea and sort of brought me on board to help co-found this one-day conference. And then he graduated, and so I felt I needed to keep it going. And we brought--.We started by bringing 150 to 200 students. And then it just grew from there every fall. And they had the experience of visiting the college, eating in the cafeteria, going to workshops, and the whole point was sharing with them information, resources that would help them to get to college, and hopefully not struggle as much as we did in not knowing what was even available or what options we had, and that was very geared towards undocumented and first-generation Latino students. And those experiences I feel like, it really gave me the ability to think through what is in our reach to push for change, what resources we have, and make the most with what you have. Because we were just, you know, college students. We would visit high schools and just talk to the administration and be like, we want to invite students. So little by little, we grew those relationships. We got school systems to provide their bus, the transportation for students to get to the conference. It was on a Saturday. We got funding from the school to pay for the breakfast and to give them gear, so it was just really cool to kind of give back in that sense. Even if it was one day, even if it was, you know, just a tiny piece of information. It was nice to see that hopefully they will hear something today that will have an impact in them. And I think for me the most favorite memory of that conference every year was coming into the cafeteria when they were eating lunch and just to see how many Latinos were in that space. And to see other students from campus walking in and just being like, who are these people? This is not the norm, right? A lot of us were one student who identifies Latino in the classroom; and so to be able to have that many people on campus and to see themselves there, but also to see other people acknowledge their presence, those are the moments that I live for in a way.
DV: So, you started it with your friend freshman year and then you continued it, until?
YGR: I continued every year until I graduated and it's still happening.
DV: Wow.
YGR: Like everything that, you know, they have up and downs in terms of leadership and support from school with administration change. And so that results in more resources or less resources that go into the conference, but it's still happening.
DV: That’s great.
YGR: And that just, you know, sort of uplifts my spirit because I know that at that moment we were focused on the Latino students. There are other students who also need that same support, like international students, refugees, asylees. And Greensboro has a large population of--. A really diverse population. So they also broadened a little bit the confidence to make sure that they were doing outreach to those students as well. So it is still happening, and it is one of those things that keeps me really close with the school, knowing that even after 10 plus years, it is still a need and there's still people who are willing to do that work. And other couple things that Guilford was, at that moment, the Latino club on campus was Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. And, you know, there's different ways that people identify themselves, so I use Latino a lot, Latina, Latinx, Hispanic. At that moment in time, from 2007 to 2011, Hispanic was the word that most people used. So, the club was Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. And we did a lot of activities throughout the year, celebrated Farm Work Awareness Week, celebrated Hispanic Heritage Month. I also was seen as an international student to Guilford because of my application. So I also did a little bit of the international club. So, I don't know, it felt like it was a small campus and had a lot of resources. And it gave me the ability to do different things and connect with different groups of students and bring them all together in a way. And so that was inspiring for me to see that, okay, people follow me. For some reason, people volunteer to help me. And it's what we need, right? We need groups of people who are excited about something. And for me, that was really energizing. And that conference, the Soy Un Lider Conference, is like I'm a leader. And sometimes, a lot of times, even students, even adults, we doubt ourselves of our abilities to do something. And I think for me, that learning lesson there was like, you might be the one leading or pushing but you need a group of people because one person cannot do it alone. And in leadership also looks different in a way. I might be a quiet leader right, but you can still do things in front of people, behind the scenes. So that's something that I really learned at that moment, and I try to remind myself because sometimes it's still hard. You know, imposter syndrome comes back, and you try to question, am I in the right place? Do I belong? Can I do this? So just thinking about that younger Yazmin who was able to do something, and people believed. And it had an impact. It helps me to move through. And you asked about internships.
DV: Right.
YGR: I did two internships that I recall more clearly. My first internship was at Student Action with Farmworkers and that was, again, an internship that my friend did. So, I was like he did it I'm going to go and do it. And he was--.
DV: The same friend?
YGR: Same friend
DV: Wow
YGR: Same friend. And so, he told me about the internship. As a Bonner Scholar, we were supposed to do an internship. And so, I worked in a clinic of Piedmont Health Services in Prospect Hill as a farm worker, outreach worker, doing outreach to farm worker camps. And so, we visited farms or like camps, we call it camps, which is the housing where farm workers live. It might be a trailer; it might be a big building that looks like a warehouse. And it can vary from like 3, 4, 5, 10 farm workers to like 150 or more farm workers. A lot of them come from Mexico and through the H-2A visa , and work in the fields for a time frame and go back home. And so, we would bring to them information around health, health education, we would take their blood pressure and talk to them about diabetes. And just trying to provide information and resources to them, connect them to the clinic if they needed an appointment, if they needed medicine. And that really, that internship is something that I feel really shaped me again because even if I grew up in Alamance County, I had no idea that just 40, 20, 30 minutes away there are farms and there's farm workers. And that a lot of them are actually from my home country and that looked like they could have been my dad, my grandpa, my granddad, or one of my siblings, or someone I know. And just to see the disparity in terms of access to healthcare, resources, and a lot of injustices that may happen because of their job. The different power dynamics that come into play. And that really got me into the sort of farm worker justice movement here
DV: It galvanized you.
YGR: Yes. In North Carolina.
DV: So this internship is happening while you're in college?
YGR: Summer yeah, a whole summer. So, during college I was doing the tutoring, I was doing the club on campus, and I was doing also the conference once a year. During the summer we had an internship, and it was--. This first one was a Student Action with Farmworkers, and this summer internship is called Into the Fields. And so it brings students from North Carolina and farmworker students from other parts of the country like Idaho, California, Texas, where there's other farm worker populations that at that time were bigger, and that--. Either it could be children of farm workers or even children that worked as farm workers at some point. So it was a really cool space because a lot of--. To be part of the internship, you had to speak Spanish. And so even those that were not Latino, like they spoke Spanish and liked the culture, and it was like a cohort, you know. Sort of a program where there's retreats, there's trainings, there is just different types of activities that help you feel more comfortable with who you are. And I think one of the things for me, too, is I didn't have a problem with being who I am because that's who I am. I grew up in Mexico, so I feel very grounded on my language and my culture, but I know other people who grow up here sometimes have a challenge because it's like, at home it's one culture and outside it's another culture so you're trying to grapple with who you are and what's okay because of the pressure. So I really got to see other students who were at the beginning a little shy to speak Spanish, or a little shy to say where they were coming from, or a little shy to dance, you know, bachata salsa whatever and then by the end they were this is who I am and like--.
DV: Embracing it.
YGR: Yeah, embracing their culture. So I loved being part of that experience and to also learn it's okay to be who I am in terms of the context of being an immigrant and having you know English as my second language, having an accent, like those things I think that those were the things that I got from the experience as well. And that having this bicultural, bilingual experience and a skill set also can contribute in different ways in the workplace, because at the end of the day we were increasing capacity for organizations that were doing this outreach. And this was at the time where there were no smartphones, so we would do outreach based on a map. We would pull a big map and then try to find the street where the camp was and then drive around the country and then try to figure out where this house is. And there would be notes like, you know, look at the tree in this intersection. A lot of farmworker housing is not like a regular housing that you can see from the road. It might be a dirt road that you have to go. And then, you know, it's kind of hidden from communities. So it's really crazy to think now that we just put something on the GPS, and it tells us, sometimes even shows you a picture of what it looks like, but back in the day, it was really pairing up with one more student, intern, or the supervisor and driving with them and figure out where the housing was. So I learned a lot and got to network a lot through that internship. I feel that led me to my second internship the following summer, which was at American Friends Service Committee, AFSC, which is a Quaker organization. And at the time it was based in Greensboro. And the director at the time of the immigrant rights program, she was also SAFista. And we call SAFista anyone who has done any SAF program, any Student Action with Farmworkers program. So she was a SAFista from back in the day, leading this program in immigrant rights and I applied for an internship there and got to learn more about the immigrant rights space like the advocacy happening at the time in general, advocacy for issues that we still face today like immigration reform, humane immigration reform, driver's license, tuition equity, all those issues that are still present. And I got to learn and be in the space and support those efforts during that summer. And that person, that director, really became one of the people, too, that became part of my support system. And I think that is what I'm really grateful for; that all throughout my journey I have found those people. Like I mentioned in high school, teachers, in my internships and in the different spaces that I was part of finding people that are going to be there for you no matter, you know, how you move in life through other spaces. She's been one of those people that has been job references for me, you know, one of those people that I call and try to ask at different points for her thoughts and feedback and that got to know me more during that time of my life. So those are the main internships that I think really took me in terms of helping me to develop my resume per se. So, by the time that I graduated, I had a lot of things. Like, I was, not just--.
DV: You were just busy.
YGR: I was busy, not just participating, but I was leading on campus and also participating in the internships. And I think that I'm grateful for that. I don't regret it. But looking back, I know that I was overcommitted. And I guess the weight that I was carrying, it was like, if I don't do it, who will do it because there were not a lot of Latino students on campus at the time. It was only a few of us. It was like three Mexican students, different classes, you know, Puerto Ricans, a couple. Some people that were adopted from Latin America and were trying to connect with their, you know, culture of the country where they were born, but there were not a lot of Latino students, so it just felt like I was trying to do it all.
DV: You felt like it was your responsibility, then?
YGR: Yes, yes, because I knew, and I was very aware that a lot of students that went to high school with me didn't make it to college. And it wasn't because they didn't want to, it was because it was not easy, or it was because they were discouraged very early on because they were told there is not going to be a way for you to do it even if you have documents. That's what really is really crazy, and I know it's still happening. If your family hasn't gone through higher ed, and if you're a person of color, if you're Latino, if you're a child of immigrants, a lot of times this system and people around it still kind of, don't see that in you or don't encourage that in you. Or even worse, like discourage you and tell you that's not an option. I know, I went to my counselor in high school, and they didn't know how to help me. There's no supports in many places still, or not enough for students. So, I definitely felt like I wanted to give back and that's why Soy Un Lider Conference focused on Alamance County, Guilford County, and Forsyth because it was sort of my hometown and surrounding counties where the conference took place. And that really sort of pushed me to do so much, which I think helped me in my professional sort of career path. But my senior year was really stressful because I was trying to graduate, fulfill my requirements. I was a business--. I was a French and business, sort of French major. Business was supposed to be my second major, but I ended up having to graduate. I think I ended up graduating with two minors in business and one more thing I don't even remember, oh my gosh. I had completed three minors, but they don't let you graduate with three minors. I had major in French and three minors in business related but I had to pick two, so I think it was business and business law. And the reason was, I was short one class to finish my major in business. But at that point I was like, I'm done, I don't need to, I didn't have the money, I didn't have the energy to come back and finish one more class to complete that business double, to have a double major. So, I was like, I'll just graduate. And I think it was just, I was so over committed and tired because I was also, towards the end, I tried to find ways to work to earn a little money so that I could still sort of be okay, because every year tuition goes up. And so, by the time I started I think it was like 10K a semester, no, 15K a semester. By the time I finished, it was way higher than that. So it was a lot of, sort of, pressure, and I was just ready to graduate. When I graduated I was still undocumented, so that year was hard, 2011 to 2012, because I had a degree and it was sort of--. I found myself in a place where a lot of people had sort of questioned, before, what are you going to do when you graduate and you still don't have documents to work. I heard that a lot during my time in college and that was hard because it's like you want to be motivated, you want to keep pushing, you want to show that you're doing the most with the opportunity, but that’s a real question that I tried to ignore because I didn't want to lose sight of my goal which was to graduate. And it was hard to kind of keep going that year just trying to figure out what am I going to do, and I knew that maybe I needed to go back to Mexico if I couldn't work here. And that's why I was going for business and French in college, because I wanted something that could maybe help me if I had to go back to my home country or end up going to a different country. I couldn't graduate with anthropology or sociology because my family would have been like what are you going to do with that, you know. What do you do with that degree in another country like Mexico. So, it was 2012, the summer of 2012 when President Obama announced the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals and that was the light that I was waiting for. That was the moment that I was preparing for. And so, I didn't doubt enrolling into the program as soon as it was an option. I remember I heard about it, I was so excited, started putting all my documents together, thinking through what they would be asking for. And as soon as the day came to be able to apply and submit an application, I was one of those first ones that I know of in my circle of friends. And I know a lot of people were fearful because, I mean, you know we don't trust the government a lot of times for various reasons, and so people were really fearful of coming forward. And then you know not knowing what really could happen once you did that. But I just felt like what am I going to lose, I don't have anything to loose. And so I applied, and I was going through that process, waiting to hear back, going to do my biometrics, my fingerprints and all that. And then I saw this job that opened up at the Student Action with Farmworkers, which was the first internship, the first organization that I interned for. And so, I was like, I'm going to apply. And so, I applied, and the position was National Organizer. And so I was going through the application process and waiting to hear back about DACA. And I went to two or three interviews, and I got a call on a Friday saying that I got the job and I was so happy. And I wanted to say yes but I still didn't have my work permit, so I asked for a couple days to think about it but I know I didn't have anything to think about. I wanted a job. I just wasn't ready.
DV: Were you giving yourself time to get those permits, maybe?
YGR: Yeah. And so, in that call I was like, oh yes, can I think about it and get back to you next week? And that weekend I got my work permit. It just felt like it was meant to be and everything lined up. So I got my work permit, I started working that December at Student Action with Farmworkers leading up to 2013. And that really opened up the doors for me in so many ways. Having DACA, being able to use--. Because a lot of jobs they don't ask you--. I mean they say preference in a degree on this, right? But they're looking at the education level, like bachelor's degree, master's degree, or whatever. And so, I had the degree, I had the experience, and I wanted to be able to do something, get a job that I was passionate about. And so DACA opened up that for me. And this organization means a lot to me because it was the first organization that opened the doors to give me an internship knowing my situation. Because I've always been pretty open about, you know, my situation and who I am, so it meant a lot for me that that was my first job. And I was there for about three, four years working in different roles as a national organizer, coordinating National Farmworker Awareness Week, doing a lot of the alumni engagement. Later became director of the youth program, so working with youth, farmworker youth, and really networking and connecting and supporting a lot of that farmworker advocacy movement in the state to improve the working and living conditions of the population. And during that time, it was towards my last year and a half working there, that I realized that I wanted to go back to school. And it was a combination of, started looking at people around me. Well, I knew I wanted to go back to school, but I didn't know for what. Because at that point, I only knew my one friend. [Laughter]. Going back to my one friend that had gone to Guilford from my high school, he went and did his MBA. And so, I knew that there was Master’s in business administration, but I was like, ah, I knew I did business in college, but that's not where my heart is. And so that was not what I wanted to do. I didn't know many people personally, you know friends, close friends or family that had a Master’s, but I started looking at everyone around me and trying to figure out what their degree was. People that I looked up to in the work. This was before LinkedIn. You couldn't just you know figure out what people's journey was. I started meeting with people for coffee. I ended up meeting with 15 or more social workers. And they were all doing different work, in farmworker-related, immigrant rights-related, just different type of work. And I was like, I want to be a social worker, because they're all doing work that I would love to be able to do, positions that I would love to have. And that's one of the reasons why I chose social work. And the other one is because I was working with the farmworker youth, and it was really working with them, their families, their siblings, their networks, because they would connect. They would know that there was a need, and they would refer people to me to try to find support and resources for them or just hear them out. And a lot of those concerns and just things that people were going through were really heavy and I didn't know how to deal with that. I couldn't go home and not think about it, or I couldn't get frustrated that there was nothing else that could be done to help them and so I knew that social work would give me a little bit more of that training on to figure out how you even help, and how do you respond, what's your role. How to push systems and how to continue to advocate for people in different ways, and that's when I ended up going to the school social work at UNC. That was a whole different journey. A whole different journey because I had been out of school for years. I still, I was DACAmented, as they say, and still had to pay out-of-state tuition if I wanted to go back to school. And it felt selfish to want to go back to school when there were a lot of people still that hadn't had the opportunity to even go to a community college or a college or university for a four-year degree, and I wanted more. So that kind of, I think I put those ideas on myself but it was just hard to kind of want more. And it was my support system, it was people around me that encouraged me to not give up and to find a way. And I met--. I had someone on Facebook that I thought it was the Facebook of this person that worked in the same building as me, and I did a lot of presentations and supported a class that happened for university students. So my support was really around farmworker information, presentations, and farmworker education for those students. So I had this person on Facebook, I thought it was this professor, but it really was that he shared that Facebook page with his wife. So it was the kids' Facebook page, and they both used it. They shared pictures of their children. So I posted something that like--. He knew that I wanted to go to school. I posted that I was trying to go to school, trying to find resources, scholarships and all that. And he connected me with his wife and said: I think you really want to talk to my wife, you should meet. She's also a social worker. And she wants to help you. And I didn't know that this whole time she had been--. She knew who I was because of Facebook, and so I met with her a weekend in this office, in her office, and we came up with a plan on how I was going to be able to go to grad school.
DV: Wow.
YGR: Like, who I needed to reach out to at the school, how I was going to try to pull in enough funding. And I walked away from her office with this big sheet of paper with everything on it and I really went on that path. I ended up having to fundraise for my education because there were not many scholarships for students like me. The ones that were available I applied out of the school, and I didn't get those. Very competitive national scholarships. And people like her and others connected me with people at the School of Social Work. Everyone at the School of Social Work knew that I was coming, who I was. There had seen emails about me, people advocating for me to be thought of for a scholarship support. It could be a little embarrassing. [Laughter]. You know, because people were like, this is just me and this is everything she's done, and she would be amazing, and these are the challenges that she has. So I think for me the most difficult part was to try to fundraise. And the moments that really were like--. That brought me a lot of joy. And just what surprised me a lot is people that didn't know me that supported me. Like people in my network spoke highly of me to their network and I got checks from people that I had never met. And some people didn't want me--. They wanted to be anonymous, they didn't need me to contact them and thank them and I was like I want to thank you, I want to know who you are. And people from my community, people from the community where I grew up also supported that.
DV: In Mexico?
YGR: Here.
DV: Oh, here.
YGR: Here in Alamance County. And so, to me it meant people believe in me, people are cheering for me, supporting me. And so I just went all in and fundraised for my whole grad school cost, and went into grad school trying to be the best student ever. Like read everything and do everything. I got to be an RA all throughout both years and the summer and learn from different professors. It was really one of those, again, life-changing experiences, because I never thought I would be able to be there. Even with DACA, even with a driver's license and a social security number, it's still a place that is not that accessible to DACAmented and undocumented students. So it felt surreal. And also hard because you're one of a few Latino students. There was, not that I knew of, any other student that was in the same situation that I was. And it's an institution at the end of the day, so there's things that could be better. We're always, as students, we're always challenging the system. We're always questioning, especially at the School of Social Work where in the code of ethics it's like social justice is one of those things that, you know, we care about. So it was interesting because I was sort of part of the advocacy but also working for professors and being an RA for the assistant dean, and you know. [Laughter]. Pushing here, but also this is my research assistantship and this is how I'm able to be in school. Because I was working for the school so that they could help me with my tuition, with part of the tuition, at least not pay out-of-state tuition, but pay it sort of the mid-level point through the funding that the research assistantship came with. So it was an incredible experience and I was able to do a couple internships there at the Hispanic Family Center through Catholic Charities in Raleigh. And then my final internship was an internship that I found on my own. It wasn't one listed. The list of internships, there was nothing that really spoke to me. And so I went to try to find an organization that had a social worker that could supervise me and that had the work that I wanted to do. And so I reached out to the American Civil Liberties Union who had two social workers. I knew one of them and I ended up being an intern there. And that's when DACA was rescinded. So it was when the Trump administration was trying to get rid of DACA and it was very fearful because DACA is what had opened the doors for me, it was the way that I could work for the school and finish grad school. And so I was in the middle trying to keep organizations informed, like support on that end, trying to support the advocacy efforts and be part of that work again, now as a grad student. Very nerve-wracking too because I felt like, I don't know, I just--. You just put ideas on yourself. I was--. The expectations are high on how I'm supposed to, you know, do the work because now I'm in grad school. I just felt it was I have to do my best and even better than, you know, two years ago because I'm a grad student and I put a lot of pressure on myself at that time. And I was able graduate from the School of Social Work and land on my first job. I applied for different things that felt sort of comparable, like going back to the farmworker space. I tried to get into philanthropy which didn't work at the time. I was seen as very young, not a lot of experience on that sort of area. And then I ended up being sort of recruited or encouraged to apply for a position at the hospital in town. And it was working under the supervision of the person that was really crucial in helping me come up with a plan on how I was going to get to grad school. That woman that I mentioned that brought me to her office, that I knew her husband, and so also social worker. And I ended up applying for jobs. I got a job in farmworker health and I declined that job and ended up coming to work for the hospital. And I actually, I don't know, it's full circle in a way because I got to work in the community where I grew up, got to learn, got to meet more people. And understand the dynamics that happen in the county between non-profits, hospital, health department, things that work, things that could be better, contributing in the ways that I could to make spaces more welcoming of Latinos. Or try to bring a little bit more awareness of why you might not be seeing Latinos and how you could improve in your outreach. And having the supervisor I had was an amazing experience because she was a leader that tried to uplift and to give you the tools you needed to do what needed to be done. And it was a little crazy when she said that she wasn't in the office much because she was covering a broader region and that she was going to give me her office. And I was like, what?! The office where I first met her to come up with a plan on how I was going to get to grad school. That's what it meant to me. I was like, the office with three windows, I'm getting that office? So that just felt like, oh my god, full circle. I can't believe that two years ago, two and a half years ago, I was sitting in this office not knowing that I was going to be able to go to grad school and not knowing that I was going to be able to, you know, move on in my career thanks to having a master's degree.
DV: Wow.
YGR: And that work in the hospital was really rewarding, was really hard, too, because it was coming--. It was putting me out of my comfort zone not being in the immigrant rights space, farmworker advocacy space where everyone is aware of the community needs or trying to serve or have that shared goal. It was more of just different people, right, with different jobs, serving the broader community, very mainstream in a way, where there were little to no Latinos in the spaces where I was moving. And so that was hard to navigate, but also rewarding to see little by little sort of the impact of just my presence or a comment or a question or my--. Or giving input. We were able to do a lot of programming to grow the programming for the Latino population in Alamance County, connect people to resources that were available for free or little cost like mammogram, you know, just information on pre-diabetes, like connecting people to different resources. And that's when the pandemic hit. And that's when we all shut down in terms of showing up to the office. And my supervisor being very supportive allowed me to do the work that I thought was needed, which was to support with basic needs to the community because people were staying home, losing their jobs or not being able to work, like not having food. It was just really like a chaos. And so I worked closely with the Dream Center in Burlington. Past Lisa had this idea of doing a food giveaway and trying to find meals and give it out to the community. And it was literally her family, my husband and I, and one more couple on the first day. And they bought food, they found funding, and I came up with ways to improve our system. I supported that day. We had cars coming through one end of the building going all around and we had a tent we were giving out the food it was very, like, the first day was a mess. It was good but it was like we were just trying to improve, and we served, I don't know if the first day we served like 120 families. I don't know, a crazy number of just cars that came by and we just gave them food and you know trying to have PPE on us and protect ourselves and protect others but give food. And that just grew and grew and grew and every week we were giving more and more food. So many people came along to help after that first day, we had nonprofits showing up, Elon University leadership, people from the city of Burlington, the mayor was out there, former mayor was there giving out food. And just different people came and helped and it just grew from giving this full menu that people can choose from American and Latino food and diapers and fruit and getting donations and giving out masks and giving out, you know, what we could. And it was definitely like--. Thursday was the day where even people that didn't know what was going on they would see the lines of cars and would come and get in line. They were like we don't know what's happening, but everybody's coming so we want to come and see. And it had a huge impact on nonprofits and organizations who had heard about Latinos, who had heard about the Dream Center, but really didn't come close yet, so they got to see the community and that was impactful too because a lot of times people may ask where are the Latinos, right? They're not coming, and we're here, we're part of the community. They're just busy working jobs that sometimes are not visible and they're keeping to themselves because it's what's comfortable and it's what feels safe. And the Dream Center became that sort of place that a lot of people start to recognize the habit trust in the community that was in the, in the part of town where we needed resources the most. And so, it was really neat to be able to give back during those times that were really difficult. That was before testing. Then testing came around and we coordinated, I helped to coordinate in the county different places for testing. We were going to the places in the community where we could see the higher rates or where we wouldn't, we didn't see rates because we also thought people were not being tested there. In rural parts of the county, different parts of the county, and it was free testing for anyone that wanted it in a drive-thru sort of way in collaboration with the health department. And so I was in that time when I got a call that my dad was feeling, was ill, was not doing well in Mexico, and had to go back to Mexico. And he had gotten COVID, it was July, and he didn't make it. So that was really hard because I was here, you know in the response and trying to provide what I could to the community and then my dad was home, not feeling well, not telling us for some days because, my dad. And I got to Mexico and by the time I got there he was at a hospital, and I was not able to go in. I was not able to see him. And that just was so hard for my family and for myself. And a lot to kind of deal with and process in that sort of very scary way of you not being able to be there for your loved one, you not being able to even do the proper traditional way of a funeral. Or doing the things that we usually would do for the people we love. And so that 2020 was definitely a rough year for me and then coming back to--. Having to come back and go back to work and still processing that for a long time. And my husband was running for office, too, at that time, so it was a lot to kind of grieve for my dad, be strong for family, and support my husband as he was running his first campaign for office. And that fall is when, I was supposed to become a citizen in March, but it happened that the pandemic got here and everything got shut down, so it got pushed to October, and I was able to become a citizen in October. And that was sort of, one of the first sort of big painful moments because it was one of the first few life milestones that I wasn't able to call my dad and tell him. And I remember that being really hard just because it's a moment that I should be happy but it was, you know--. When he, when someone you love is no longer a part of your life, it's really hard to kind of figure out the thing that I would do is not something that I can do anymore. But I guess the little happiness or the little sort of moment that brought comfort was knowing that, I feel like I know that he's with me, you know, in different ways now and that he would be happy for me. And also, that same day, because of the pandemic, it was very weird citizenship ceremony where it was three of us in this huge room and nobody else could come into the building. They asked the questions. They did my interview, my final interview, and then right away put us in this room for the oath. So I did everything in one day instead of doing two parts as usually the process would be, and then I got out of there and drove directly to early voting. It was the last day of early voting, and so I registered to vote during early voting before it closed, and I voted for my husband. And I was like, I cannot believe that this is happening and then drive straight to the library to request my passport because I was like, there's no going back, they can't take this away from me. I'm going to do everything I need to do--.
DV: Yeah, you made it.
YGR: To get this, you know, to get to this point. So it was a full day of, you know, just--. I feel like I was running, before anybody changed their mind, to do what I needed to do. So 2020 was definitely bittersweet in many ways, for many of us, but definitely very high highs and very low lows. And then that fall I got a call from a friend that said, do you want to do the work that you're doing at the county level but at the state? And I was like, no, I got enough with my county. There's plenty of work to do here and I'm doing all I can. And I was like, still doing the work with the hospital, canvassing. Well we were starting to do lid drops, not canvassing, that fall, and just juggling everything and grieving. And it was probably a month later that I saw the job description for the job that I have now and I fell in love with it because it was the focus on the Latino community, it was really working at a systems level. It felt that every part of my journey was leading me to this job, from a personal, to a professional, to an educational experience. And so, I put my name in the hat. I applied, went through three interviews and was waiting to hear back and left to Mexico to see family. It was probably between November and December. I think it was like November, December.
DV: Still 2020?
YGR: In 2020. November December of 2020. I applied around September, October and then it was November, December, I was in Mexico riding a taxi with my husband. An old taxi, it was an old car, you could hear the engine, one of those cars. And so, I got a call from who would be my supervisor and I was in this car and the engine you could hear the eeeeh, and I was like this is embarrassing but I have to talk to her. So my husband try to tell the taxi driver to pull to the side because literally the sound was horrible and so he pulled over. And then she gave me the job offer and she said that, you know, congratulations you got the job. Gave me a little bit of information and said that I could review the documents that were coming to my email and then get back to them. And so that moment is very memorable because I was in Mexico, you know, the place where I was born, the city where I was born. And then getting to--. I'm getting to hear that I got a job working in the government in this place that I went to for better life and better opportunities, in a taxi with this horrible noise. And so that was really the moment that, you know, sort of shaped what was to come for the next two-plus years now. Came back, started working in January and it was really hard for many months working about 15 hours every day non-stop, no weekends, no evenings. Really being part of that early, since the very early stage of vaccine distribution, COVID-19 vaccine distribution in the state and prevention work. And having the weight of knowing that the Latino population was disproportionately impacted by COVID, and knowing that farmworkers were impacted, that meat-processing plant workers were impacted, just frontline workers who for the most part were Latino, were impacted and trying to do all I could to be part of that response. So it was a lot.
DV: What had happened with your dad, did you have that in your mind also when you went through that work?
YGR: Yes, yes and I was trying, you know, had a lot of--. I did seek therapy that didn't work. Didn't work, the therapist that I found was not a good fit and I was like, I'm wasting my time and I didn't have time to look for another therapist, but I had friends and people that were there for me. I know that it's hard, when you have a friend that is going through that you sometimes don't know how to act, you don't know what to say, you don't know how to support. But I did have people that were there for me and talked to me, you know, said: why are you doing this? Are you doing this for your dad? Also, don't feel like you have to sacrifice or like--. Not sacrifice yourself, but put yourself in a place where it's also painful because it's a reminder, right? And so I thought it through, and I know that part of me was trying to prevent the suffering of other families, and I do all I can to be part of that response because I know it was real. A lot of people were like, COVID is not real. And I was like, COVID is real. COVID is the reason why my dad is no longer here. And I think for me it was a part of giving back and trying to alleviate the situation as much as possible, or contribute to or control the pandemic, or prevent the spread. But also because I think this is my life's work. I never think about, in my path, in my career, it's never been about a position and a title, it's been about the work. What about this role will speak to me and will make a difference to the community that I care about? And that is sort of what drives me. And that's what really drove me to this job, looking at the job description and the possibilities, knowing that it was going to be really, really hard, knowing that I was going to end up working within an institution that was being held accountable by the advocacy groups that I was part of in previous roles. So it was a lot of--. It was really hard emotionally to navigate that because now I'm part of the system, right? And so being that bridge builder but also at times taking it all, and trying to help with solutions. But at the end of the day, now I'm the face or I became the face during those moments of what was not right, or what could be better and needed to be better with the same people that I was colleagues, you know, for a long time in the movement. So that was a hard shift and trying to--. I knew that I am here to improve the strategies, the initiatives, to make sure that we have a lens of the community, to look at policies and interventions and ways that we can be better. In that moment, it was specific to COVID-19, but also kind of showing people, feeling that I had to show people that I'm still me and I'm still here for the right reasons, even though I'm not part of the outside advocacy. So that was shift, it was the first time that I found myself in that sort of dynamic scenario. And it's been a really rewarding experience. It's been hard. It's been an adjustment, learning how government works. And it's also, for me, I'm really grateful to have been part of that team that was part of COVID-19 response at the state level because I saw that everybody was working nonstop and giving their all. And they had been there since the beginning, like the prior year when I was at the county level. So, the county-level work was hard physically because we were doing the food distribution, mentally, emotionally, but it was not the level of pressure at the state that I came to in 2021, and that I had to kind of, to do that work. And I think the other thing that has been rewarding there is to try to shape my job because it was the first time that this position was created, so there was not before anybody in this role. So try to establish myself and show people that I'm about collaboration, I'm about improving the work together. It is a system, it's huge. There's different things that could be better and trying to focus on what can we actually accomplish in the time that we have. And also I've gotten to work with students who are getting their Master’s of Social Work so now I get to, by this point I've had three students, supervised three students, that are becoming social workers who are Latina, who are bicultural with different life experiences, who have been in North Carolina, either were born here, grew up here, have been here for some time. And so that feels to me that is a part--. I've identified that that is a part that is important to me. Even if it's middle school, which is our ( ) age, high school, youth, just making sure that we're still working on that pipeline. Because this work is hard, and we need more people. I don't know why I'm getting emotional.
DV: It's okay.
YGR: I think it's--. What feels heavy a lot of times is that one person cannot change everything and many people are that one person in their space. And it's not fair to them, to the community, to the people. That we need more representation and I think that's what this pandemic really--. I hope that it's the lesson learned for everyone around that we can't wait for a global pandemic to realize that we're not representing the communities that we serve, that we don't have that representation for many systematic reasons, but also it's not the fault of people. From the education system to immigration system, to different systems at play that are not letting people move on to opportunities and be in those spaces. And from policies and practices that come into play, you know, who is being hired, who's given a chance, who's given a scholarship, looking at population, like do we have enough people at the table to be part of the solutions, to serve, so that people feel comfortable. I think that is the work ahead of ourselves. Right now, as we're coming out of this pandemic and everything is kind of going back to normal: not losing sight of what we learned, what was hard, and what we need to continue to implement that was done during COVID in, some shape or form, and continue to make it better. So I think that's what's on my mind a lot these days. Because I tell people, I did feel the pressure of people saying, oh you're the Latina doing all this work, but I'm like, I don't speak for all the Latino population. The Latino population is not monolithic. It's very diverse in so many ways. And I bring perspectives, I bring information, I bring research, I inform. And also, it should be more than one person. All throughout organizations, it should be that way, that people are either aware, knowledgeable, or they are representing the demographics that North Carolina is now. Because it's not like when I first went to high school, that I was the only Latina, you know, in my classroom. Now looking at Alamance County and seeing different schools that have sometimes even 40% Latino, and I could not dream of that when I was growing up. That was something that I didn't experience, right? So we need to make sure that we are setting those infrastructures in place to support the population, especially because--. I mean, I think North Carolina has grew a lot over the last 20 years in terms of demographics in the Latino population and our Latino population right now is still relatively young, but we're going to age and those systems need to be in place to be able to support the community. And so, this pandemic could have been worse in terms of death rates if we had been an older population. And we're not done confronting health disparities, chronic illnesses and everything that's to come.
DV: So that's what's on your mind for now in your current role?
YGR: Yes.
DV: So, considering all of these experiences, Yazmin, what would you say were the main factors that helped you along the way, that shaped the leadership that you have exhibited and continue to exhibit in your role?
YGR: I would say, I don't know. This is a hard one because I think there's definitely people, there's things that I've mentioned, like the people that have been part of my support system. The opportunities that I got that I know that not many people in my time, that share similar experiences, had. I think that, I don't know the word in English, sometimes this one goes away, but like, soy necia. I get into an idea, like I get like--. I think about this is what I want to do, and I just go for it. No matter if people are telling me, you're crazy, that's not doable, why, that's too much this, too much that, I just focus and go and do it. And in a way, I think it can be bad in different ways, you know. But in this case, just setting my mind to something has helped me, even when things were hard. And really having that support system: being family, being friends, being my husband, who believe in me and continue to encourage me and push me to do what I need to do, has been important. And we all have, you know, ups and downs, like there's definitely times and days where it's hard and I think about the why, right? I think about how I started, where I am, where were the possibilities. Knowing that the possibilities are endless, and we just have to keep pushing and that's something that I tell other young people. You never know, you can't just give up because you never know the opportunities that will come later and that's what happened for me. I went to school, to college not knowing that DACA was going to be a thing. And then I got DACA and then I pushed to try to go to grad school not knowing that I was actually going to be able to finish. And I never thought I would be able to become a citizen so you never know the path but you only do, you can only do what's in your control and that's what sort of keeps pushing me. I'm not able to fix everything but what's in my reach, I'll try to do. And it's the people that I've had, the motivation, the sacrifices of my family like my grandparents. For many, many years, my grandparents were in my mind a lot because I know sort of the challenges that they faced, the humble beginnings that they had, how they did all they could for their children. Now, with everything that I've gone through, my dad is on my mind a lot because I know how hard he worked, how much he supported me, how much he cared. His own way he showed us that he loved us. He was not very--.
DV: Affectionate.
YGR: Affectionate, but he showed us in his own ways, and he worked really hard. He was well respected in his job. Dedicated. For him, his job was like life, which sometimes can be bad, and I try to walk myself back when I am getting to that sort of mindset. There's more to life than just work. There’re other things. But I think for me, my job is also sort of my way of being a productive member of society and giving back and making--. Doing my best to make things a little better if even if it's in a small way. That's what sort of drives me. People that I love that I look up to or that were an important part of my life, and of course my mother, who is, who has been an amazing force for me. Yeah, just like thinking about people who have been there for me and what I can do for others. I think that's sort of what has helped me along the way. And I do want to believe that there's a God that has looked out for me because I would not be here in many ways. Just being an immigrant, you know, going through different experiences, something could have happened to me at different parts of my life to derail me from the path. Or to not even be alive, you know. Different kinds of ways. So, I am definitely grateful for that. And what motivates me a lot too, is that I'm not the only one. This is my story and is unique. But there's many stories like mine, and now we're getting to see more and more and more of that. And that really motivates me because during the time that I was sort of growing up and going to college and stuff like that, people would not talk about their experience or they would protect it, which it's so understandable. But now we have more and more people talking about it, bringing awareness, and pushing and advocating, and we're still in the same spot. DACA has been challenged. You know, new people, people who are coming of age cannot apply for DACA even if they qualify. There are no new applications that are being received. So we're not in a better place, even if many, many years have passed. Out of state tuition is still, you know, an issue. Access to driver's license for people is still an issue, immigration reform. So we are not where we need to be, but there's more people coming in and being part of that fight, and that is very motivating.
DV: Speaking of motivation and to conclude our interview, and you've already mentioned a little bit about future leaders, but thinking of all of your experiences, what advice would you give future Latino leaders so that perhaps you're not the only one in the space?
YGR: I think I would highlight unity and common goals. Like I mentioned, the Latino population, Latinx Hispanic population is very diverse in many ways. Immigration experience or, you know, maybe growing up here, generationally, too. We're so diverse. And I think what I would sort of highlight for leaders is the importance of working together and the importance of supporting each other and also the understanding that leadership looks different. And we need all kinds of leadership, and we need all kinds of strategies and advocacy, because I really see this as an ecosystem where different things are happening, and they build on each other and they help each other. And as the leadership grows and as the movement continues to, sort of, expand, I think as a community we got to work together and respect each other and make space for different voices. And I'm thinking very specific about the younger sort of age groups, that we all were young at one point, and we all thought that we could change the world at one point. And we need those mindsets because it is tiring. This journey is tiring. Someone texted me: the struggle is forever, after something happened and now it's like, yes, it's so real, the struggle is forever. We have to take care of each other. We have to take care of ourselves. We have to respect the different ways that people go about strategizing and, you know, fighting maybe within the system, maybe outside of the system, maybe in different ways, but we're not the enemy. Each other, we're not the enemy. We're just trying to move, work alone, and so I think it's important for us to keep that in mind and bring others along into the different spaces. If you have the opportunity to support other people, what better way than to, you know, take advantage of that? And also, if you have been in the space for a long time, hear from other voices and hear about what they're saying and make room in the space that you are to, like, have those people sit at the table. Because I feel that's something definitely that I have seen a lot in our state in terms of dynamics that happen, and that is not really doing us any good. It's actually taking away from the work that should be done. And just to not give up. I mean, I feel everyone's experience and everyone's journey is valid. We need to just sort of embrace each other. That is sort of what I feel I learned at Guilford when I was in the Hispanos Unidos de Guilford. We came together and we were all different, Latinos with different experiences from different walks of life, different countries, and just reassuring: yes, you are here, and you matter, and you are Latino no matter what. Who can, like, nobody can question that. No matter if you speak Spanish or not, no matter if you know how to salsa or not. There is no checklist of this is who you are as a Latino, and this is what makes you a leader. We all have different types of ways that we identify ourselves, different ways that we connect to our culture, different ways that we bring leadership to spaces. And I think because sometimes being the only one, or one of the only ones, that imposter syndrome can come, no matter how long you've been in the work, it’s really helpful when you have that support system and that little group or that person that understands you and supports you. And you can be that to someone else. And I think sharing our experiences and sharing the struggles can also help because you never know who can identify with you and who will hear that and make an impact. Just like my one friend [laughter] who I have followed all throughout. We're actually neighbors right now. We live really around the corner.
DV: Wow.
YGR: But one, one person--. I learned this recently. I spoke at a women's march when Women's March was a thing. I forgot what year, but I spoke at a women's march and there was someone in the audience that what I said resonated with her. Also undocumented, with similar experiences, trying to figure out how to make it to higher education. I was at grad school at the time. And recently she attended a conference and talked to someone else I know. And the question was, what was a time or who was someone that inspired you or something? And she talked about me, and she said, I went to these Women's March, and I heard this speaker that shared different things that I connected with, and that resonated with me. And my friend knew that I spoke to that, in that march, and so she was like, was this her? [Laughter]. And, and, you know, it's like, what?! That was years ago. And I was so scared to speak up and I was so scared to share my story. No matter how open I have been it's always, you know, nerve wracking in front of hundreds of people. And knowing that I said something that this young person was impacted by, and now she is incredible. She is an incredible advocate, doing a lot of advocacies and lobbying at the state level for immigrant rights. I'm inspired by her. But it's just funny to see how we have different points, and you never know when you say something, that person might be needing to hear those words. And she connected with that. So I wanted to cry when that was like, what? She, you know, Women's March--. And she's doing this incredible work and something I said inspired her to keep going. So I think that would be my one last sort of advice to others. You never know who you're impacting, so make sure that you're sharing your experiences with others.
DV: Well, thank you very much for sharing your journey and your story with us today. And your wisdom. Thank you very much.
YGR: Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcribers: Sofia Godoy & Daniel Velásquez
Interview Date: 2023 April 21
Date of Transcription: 2023 July 25. Revisions: 2023 31 August
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
R-1011 -- García Rico, Yazmin.
Description
An account of the resource
Yazmin García Rico is Director of Latinx and Hispanic Policy and Strategy at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services (NC DHHS). She recounts her activism during her tenure in college, helping Latinx youth navigate college enrollment and her outreach efforts to connect farmworker communities with healthcare and other resources. Thanks to the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, Yazmin was able to continue helping farmworkers after college in various positions, and also earn a Master’s degree in social work at UNC-Chapel Hill. Yazmin expresses deep regret at her father’s passing from COVID-19 at a time before vaccines or treatments were available. She subsequently joined NC DHHS in her current role to coordinate vaccine distributions and address disparities in the pandemic’s impact on the state’s Latinx population. Yazmin’s journey is marked both by her own determination and the determination of others in her network to help open doors for her. In that vein, Yazmin emphasizes the need for support systems that can help uplift Latinx youth and address underrepresentation across state leadership.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-04-21
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29349">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1011_Audio.mp3
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/f89a388ba7f21edd7ab09b287a9a71ea.mp3
2afbf8e01b8fa873bea769416b85d944
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/60c473a9b2d7b3ca4bdeeb65b7569816.pdf
7d14ddcfbc9597cfab8de3d9626a5ac1
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-1007
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
Fecha
2022-11-18
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Benítez, Hannia.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Directors, NGOs and institutes
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1992
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Guatemala
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Sanford -- Lee County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-90.345759 15.5855545),1992,1;POINT(-79.1749267578125 35.490474700927734),1997,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Velásquez, Daniel.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Born in Guatemala but raised in Siler City, North Carolina, Hannia Benítez currently serves her local communities as Deputy Director at El Vínculo Hispano/The Hispanic Liaison’s office in Lee County and as Chair of Siler City’s Immigrant Community Advisory Committee (ICAC). Hannia shares her foundational experiences, including the need to be her family’s interpreter during her childhood and her engagement in several clubs throughout High School. A few years later, the advent of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program helped her during a difficult time in her personal life by opening opportunities for employment and education. While working in the housing sector, Hannia joined the Board of Directors of El Vínculo Hispano, eventually serving as board chair and later transitioning to staff as deputy director of El Vínculo’s first satellite office in Lee County. Lastly, she shares her experience during her first year serving in ICAC, which she explains has been a time for asking questions and learning the workings of local government in order to position their efforts in the coming years. Throughout, Hannia shares advice for future leaders by describing her sense of responsibility for the people and communities that she serves while showing grace and kindness in the face of adversity.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Hannia Benítez by Daniel Velásquez, 18 November 2022, R-1007, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29337
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Community and social services and programs; DREAMers and DACA; Family; Leadership; Social networks
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Directores de ONG e institutos
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Nacida en Guatemala pero criada en Siler City, Carolina del Norte, Hannia Benítez sirve actualmente a sus comunidades locales como Subdirectora en la oficina del Condado Lee de El Vínculo Hispano/The Hispanic Liaison, y como Presidenta del Comité Asesor de la Comunidad Inmigrante (ICAC, por sus siglas in inglés) de Siler City. Hannia comparte sus experiencias fundacionales, incluyendo la necesidad de ser la intérprete de su familia durante la infancia y su participación y liderazgo en varios clubes a lo largo de la escuela secundaria. Unos años más tarde, la llegada del programa federal de Acción Diferida para los Llegados en la Infancia (DACA, por sus siglas en inglés) la ayudó durante un momento difícil de su vida personal, ya que le abrió oportunidades de empleo y educación. Mientras trabajaba en el sector de vivienda, Hannia se unió a la Junta Directiva de El Vínculo Hispano, eventualmente sirviendo como presidenta de la junta. Luego se unió al personal como subdirectora de la primera oficina satélite de El Vínculo en el Condado Lee. Por último, comparte su experiencia durante su primer año de servicio en ICAC, que explica ha sido un tiempo para hacer preguntas y aprender el funcionamiento del gobierno local con el fin de posicionar sus esfuerzos en los próximos años. En todo momento, Hannia comparte consejos para futuros líderes describiendo su sentido de responsabilidad hacia las personas y las comunidades a las que sirve, y mostrando a la vez gracia y amabilidad ante la adversidad.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Hannia Benítez por Daniel Velásquez, 18 November 2022, R-1007, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Movimiento de jóvenes 'Soñadores' y Acción Diferida; Liderazgo; Familia; Redes sociales
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Daniel Velásquez: Hannia Benítez is Deputy Director at El Vínculo Hispano, the Hispanic Liaison, and Chair of ICAC, the Immigrant Community Advisory Council at Siler City. I'm Daniel Velásquez. I am interviewing you today for your oral history. Thank you for being with me today. It is November 18, 2022.
Hannia Benítez: Thank you for having me, Daniel.
DV: Hannia, let's get started by talking about your early life, your background, and set the context for us.
HB: Okay, so my name is Hannia Benítez. I was born in Guatemala, but I came to the United States at an early age. I grew up in Chatham County, North Carolina. I am the oldest daughter de mi mami and the oldest granddaughter out of more than twenty grandchildren. I identify as Hispanic Latina. I am currently deputy director for the Hispanic Liaison.
DV: Awesome. Great.
HB: And I am a mother of three beautiful children. I have a twelve-year-old, a ten-year-old, and a two-year-old. Married for ten years. And we also have a little fur baby, Milo. [Laughter].
DV: Great, so you were born in Guatemala. How long have you lived in United States then?
HB: It’s been over 25 years. I was born in ’92. I came to the United States when I was about four or five years old, but our first thought was Los Angeles, where my grandmother was living, and she currently lives there. And then a few years, within one or two years, then we moved here to North Carolina to join the rest of mis tíos, my mother’s youngest brothers and sisters that actually lived in Siler City, so that is where I grew up in.
DV: Maybe just tell me a little bit more about growing up here in North Carolina, in Siler City.
HB: Well, how do I describe it? Well, I guess when we--. I guess just from the beginning, so just to give you context my mother was a single mother with two daughters. My other sister, that is two years younger than I. She used to be a, what would you call it, like a pre-school teacher in Guatemala, so coming to the area she would, when we first got here, she would try to teach us, well mostly me, the basics of el abecedario, the alphabet, the numbers. Everything, she would do it in Spanish because she tells me, te lo voy a enseñar en español and allá en la escuela lo aprendes en inglés, so I’m going to teach it to you in Spanish, and you need to learn it in English in school. And I did just that. Whenever she came here, she worked for--. She started working several odd jobs, but then stayed at the chicken plant at that time. She worked there for several years. The biggest priorities, the biggest important things that she would say, edúquense, you know, educate yourself, learn a lot. And so, our biggest focus was on that, just learning as much as we could, learning the language, learning so many different topics. In school, being the oldest, I often found myself being like the interpreter or the translator for my mom, and then it translated with other family members. And because they would have this expression, like, para eso vas a la escuela. That's why you're going to school. So, you need to know what it is. And sometimes it would start with school messages that were sent home, and they were only in English. And she's like, ¿Qué dice? What did that say? And so, I would tell her mom, they're talking about this, this, this, this and that and trying to get her to understand what they were trying to say and what they wanted her to do. And then that then translated to the other aspects of our lives where I started having to understand how other systems work to be able to explain it to my mom, but at the same time there's still always that passion in school I loved. I'm not going to say reading, no I love reading, it was writing that I just struggled with it because there were so many thoughts in my mind, I was like I don’t know how to put it bien. Yeah, I always loved it. We were in the traditional ESL program. When I say traditional, it would be they pull all of us that are native Spanish speakers. They pull us out of the class. They teach us some English, and they put us back in. Unfortunately, I saw many other students that that was not helpful for. But, you know, I can say I was a little bit more fortunate that although my mom didn't speak English, but she had the basic foundations in Spanish that she just kept on trying at home. And then I also tried to learn everything. I was like, okay, I got to learn about, you know. So, I was in the ESL program for several years. Then I graduated out of it, I think, maybe second or third grade. And it transitioned into the AIG program, the Academic and Intellectually Gifted. And there was a group of other students that we grew up with that were also part of the ESL program that were in that as well. So, it was just a lot of that focus on education and trying to learn. And so, that was just elementary school. Like I said, being the oldest, I was always a para arriba para abajo with a single mom. The father figures that stepped in were obviously mis tíos, and so, I would love to be with them outside. You would not see Hannia in the traditional role of being in the kitchen. My mom would always be like, Hannia, come and learn how to cook. And I would look from a distance, and I'm like, okay, I know the basics. I know how to do eggs. And then I would, I'm like, ma, I have homework. Tengo mucha tarea. And so, I would go back into the room, go do my homework. And when I finished that, then I would be outside. You would see Hannia, there was a storage next to the trailer, and you would see Hannia on top of the roof and jumping from the roof and playing with my male cousins and yeah, just doing the non-traditional female roles. And it was a little bit different with my younger sister because she loved to cook. She loved learning all the traditional dishes that was going on in the kitchen. So yeah, that's what you would see. Hannia would be out there throwing rocks. We would just be using our imagination outside and just wandering around with my cousins. And then there was the school, so my focus was school, family, school, family. It continued all through middle school as well, and then high school the same way, very much inclined to education. Middle school is when I started learning a little bit more about clubs, like Beta Club, and obviously in part because of the academics. But in high school is when we started seeing more different types of clubs because middle school it was the academics, but then other areas that I started desarrollando my leadership was in the communities of faith, when I was 12. Which was something we didn't grow up with. My mom never talked about religion, none of that. Like, we never knew about churches. It was until about--. I was 11 or 12, that one of my uncles got married, and his wife was going to church. It was funny, because they would always take me, I was their mini chaperone when they were dating. So everywhere they were going, they would take me. And so, one of the places that they started taking me was at a Community of Faith in Asheboro, about 30 minutes from Siler City. And so, I remember the first day I went to that congregation, I saw youth about my age that were playing music. At that time, I was also in band in school, playing the trumpet, the quietest musical instrument around.
DV: Sure. [Laughter].
HB: And I remember seeing a kid about my age. I was 11, and he was 13. And he was up there. And he was playing the instrument. It sounded so cool. Other kids my age was playing piano. I was like, oh my gosh. I want a space. I want to be here and see other things. And so, within that space, I quickly asked the leaders they call them I think ushers in English but at the church they would call them diáconos or servidores and I was like I want to help. Put me wherever, and they were like okay we'll do that. And Hannia was up there sweeping in church, and every service they would have Hannia in childcare in the back and in sala-cuna or the nursery. And so, I would be out there and I would love engaging and they would talk about, okay you know Sunday school, teach this to the children, learn about this. So I was doing that but then also learning some of the other things that the church leadership were doing and I loved seeing that, and I loved starting getting engaged into it at an early age. It was the church treasurer, and they were like, do you know how to write properly? Do you know how to do this? And I was like, yes, I love it, I love it. You see, Hannia in that context very much engaged. So that started middle school age. And then high school, it continued. But then in high school, that's where other clubs were available. That was like FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America. There was obviously Beta Club. I was briefly in HOSA, Health Occupational Students, something like that. It was very brief. But then the other one that really stood out for me, it was called AIM Club, Action, Inspiration, Motivation. And so, at that time, there were, everybody, I guess, unofficially called it the Hispanic club, because it was mostly Hispanics and mostly immigrant students. The first year I was there, I was excited. I was seeing everybody. Everybody engaged and that looked like me, because in the other clubs, I was the only Hispanic. And because I joined that group, there were other Hispanic kids that were coming in. But in this one it was all of us Hispanics. And so, I went in there, I think it was year two that I went in there, or year three, I don't remember, but then I became president for that club. And then at the same time becoming president for FBLA and learning more about the leadership, learning more about the roles, how do meetings run, with FBLA, everything about business and things like that. And so, and that's where I met, his name was Donald Byrne, and then he comes into my life a couple years later. But after high school, I got pregnant at an early age. I was 17, so it was my last year of high school. And how would I say it? Thankfully, all my other friends that were part of, by that time it was called SLI, Scholars Latino Initiative with UNC, for the most part, they were also the same students that were with me in the ESL program, in elementary school AIG program. They were also in there, several of them DACAmented and things like that, which is another group that we were in in high school. Thankfully by high school, those who were in there and fulfilled certain requirements, although they were undocumented, where able to go to the university. And so that's where my pause kind of ended. At the high school level, thankfully, I was able to graduate, but by that time I became a mother. Unfortunately, not only within family but with other folks I would get a lot of comments like, okay, this is the end of your life. This is it. This is over for you. And I remember trying to, I was like, okay, maybe I can't go to university, maybe I can go to a local community college. And I applied, and I got rejected. I got a letter that said because I didn't have a social security number and I was like, pero porque no? So, I was like, okay, so what do I do now, like--. And so at that time me ajunté con el padre de mi hijo. So, I got together with my son's dad. We were together for a brief couple of years. There were a couple of years of I would say just pause. A little bit of darkness throughout those years, but then I got married. Couple years, I got married in 2012, two years after I graduated. I met my now husband. And I'm not gonna say it was a fairytale love story because there were a couple of hardships in the beginning as well. But within, let's say year one, year two of our marriage, that's where they passed the deferred action. So at that point, I was able to go back to school. If I wanted to I could go to work. I could pursue so many other things, and so, by that year was I had just had my daughter, my second child. And so not only the need for a household, taking care of our household expenses, but then also an opportunity for me to get out of the house. I started going back to work. I loved to work. I was trying to learn not only the basics, but other things and it was easy for me to keep on picking up. It was a little bit hard in the beginning because a lot of folks se desesperaban like employers that they would get a little bit frustrated because I was also learning the gap.
DV: And this was around 2014?
HB: 2014, ’13 yeah. And there were a good several jobs that dismissed me in the beginning. I was like, man, but I want to, I want to learn, I'm trying to learn this, things like that. A lot of: you're not compatible, or we're cutting back positions and roles, and we’re like, okay. At that time, that's when I decided to go back to school, and I went to CCCC, Central Carolina Community College. That would have been around, that would have been around 2016, I believe, where I went to get my nursing aid certificate. After that I started, I moved back to Siler City and I was working at night at a nursing home, and coincidentally, I--. how would I describe it to you? So, it's a dead-end street where I used to live. On the sides of that street there were the apartments and that the end of the street was a nursing home. So, I lived in those apartments and the nursing home was there. So, at night I was working there. And during the day, obviously, my kids were at school one of them, the other one was still small, but family was helping me with her. And I would notice that in that apartment complex, the maintenance man was almost unofficially in charge. And so, but there were some tenant issues that were going on. And one day the owner actually was there. No, his name was Tom Smith. The day that I met Tom Smith was when we were urgently trying to find a place. We, being my younger sister and I, and we were trying to find a place on our own because we couldn't be at my mom's house. It was too crowded. And we were desperately trying to apply. And we were calling. And we're like, we're really interested. We really want to get in there. And then, I don't know why, but the owner went to the unit that we were at. He's like, I wanted to see what was this commotion about two sisters so urgently trying to get an apartment. Like what's the big deal? But he just, I guess he didn't realize that it was a big step for us. It was not a luxury apartment. The homes are--. They’re still there, those apartments are still there, but they're one of the oldest apartment complexes in Siler City. And so, he went there, and because of my observation of how the process went when you move into an apartment, when he went in there, and I guess he just, I don't know what he expected out of two Hispanic young ladies coming into an apartment on their own. And I was like, okay, I'm ready for the movement inspection, and I need you to fix this, this, this, and that. And hey, I was pointing things out in the apartment. And he's like, how do you know that? And I'm like, oh, we did this whenever I moved in somewhere else and he's like, oh okay. He's like where are you working at now? I told him I was working over there. And I remember just blurting out like well whenever you need help just reach out to me, and he did literally within that week. He's like, what about I give you a contract out. And that's when I started into the housing.
DV: Okay.
HB: And I was Liaison Services. And so, I essentially--.
DV: You clearly impressed him. [Laughter].
HB: Something happened, but I was very loud and there was another person that had been there with the team that did not like me. And every chance she got she let him know, let the owner know, and copy him in there like she's not listening, she's not learning, and I'm wasting my time with her. And because she was tasked with training me with the technical things. And there were some things that I still, it hadn't clicked yet, but I was trying. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm sure. And then my husband-- like I would read her emails and I would be crying. And my husband would be like, why don't you just quit? I'm like, no, it's because I'm not going to learn. This is free training on housing and things like that. He's like, oh my gosh. So, I was climbing my way through that, but I was trying to learn everything that had to do with housing, not only with the process, with people moving in, the inspections, working with con--. Vendors, things like that, so just taking advantage of that. I eventually transitioned from working in the nursing home to housing. I had to go because I was in a dementia unit and a lot of my patients there were passing away, and it was just a very hard thing for me.
DV: Oh, yeah.
HB: So as much as I loved it, I was like, I can't, but I then transitioned into housing. And that's where I was learning more about it and being very vocal, and I would talk to the owner and be like hey, you know, we started learning about how to do the inspections and then prioritizing. And I would be working with him, and I would be like, hey, Tom, you need to fix this. You need to fix that. And then because a lot of the people that live there, they're like, why do you care? I'm like, because this is housing, like, you can't have a hole in your roof. You can’t have your door falling apart and things like that. And I understood the business part of it, because looking at the numbers, there was no money coming in because the homes were averaging between $300 to $500 a month. $500 for a three bedroom but, you know, not a lot of repairs have been done for several years. So, I started pushing to do a couple of repairs in the time that we were in there. A couple of--. About a year or so later, that's when I reached out to Cardinal Chase, which was my second place in housing. I don't recall what was the incident, but I remember going to the office and talking to the manager there. I was talking to her because I was looking for a different apartment for somebody. And I explained to her, I'm actually with Brookwood Farms--. Brookwood Apartments, and this so-and-so needs this. And she's like, how do you know about housing? I'm like, oh, this is what I'm doing here. And then she's like, okay, well, I'm leaving. So, do you want this job? [Laughter]. So, I was like, are you serious? And she's like, yeah. She told me where to submit my résumé. And I was like, okay, this is crazy. I’m going to do it, so I did it. And then by Monday of the next week, they were like, interview. I was on the job within like two, three weeks.
DV: Wow.
HB: And it continued my role with management, learning more about that, a lot of training in that program. But throughout these roles, I was also very intentional about advocating for the people we were serving. And it's something that I've carried desde pequeña. And then I felt that responsibility and my role in them and really letting the owners know, hey, it's much more than your money, much more than the rents. And within that second role, since it was low income housing, I would try to figure out ways with the tenants there about moving in. During their stay, trying to come up with payment plans, because there were so many people that were like I don't have a full amount of money. I'm like, it's okay let's breathe and I would joke around with them I'm like I'm not going kick you out unless you kick yourself out. And they're like oh my gosh, thank you. I'm like no, really, don't thank me. This is the least that I can do because this is your home. This is not just something that I can just up and say, screw y'all, go ahead and leave. So, it was around that time I was with Cardinal Chase. In comes Don Byrne. Around that time frame, Donald Byrne who was one of the teachers from Jordan Matthews at AIM Club, that was almost like a supervisor during their club meetings, that he reached out. And he's like, hey, you know, can I ask you to join me on a meeting one day with the Hispanic Liaison? And I was like, okay, I've heard of the Liaison because my mom always uses their services. And sure, let me go to a meeting. He's like, it’s a board meeting. And they're looking for directors. And he had reached out to another former classmate as well. And within meeting one, they were like, do you, would you want to be crazy enough to join us? And I'm like, of course, thank you. So, I joined the Board of Directors. At that time, it would have been 2016, with the Hispanic Liaison. And I think by the next year, that's when I became Board Chair with the Liaison.
DV: Did you continue your other job in housing during this time?
HB: Yeah, it was during that time, because I didn't join the Liaison officially as a staff member until 2021. So, during that time, 2017, the Liaison--. 2015, 2016, there was a brief year where the Liaison closed. And so, I came in when they reopened. And so, the ’17, the organization was kicking back up and I would hear the reports from Ilana, from Janet, about all the work that they were doing, and I was like, just very impressed. Not only about the work they were doing but their passion for it, with work in our community, the issues that they were addressing. And so coincidentally around that same time, that's where Hispanic leaders from Sanford reached out to us in Siler City about opening up, well discussing opening up a different organization in this area, or a satellite office for the Hispanic Liaison because there's no organization.
DV: Here in Sanford?
HB: In Sanford, yeah. There was in 2000--. I don't know what, in the early 2000s, there was a Hispanic Task Force here in Lee County, but it dissolved within a few years. So, after that, there was nothing in this area. And a lot of Lee County residents were going to Siler City to get, ask for help.
DV: Like what kind of help? What does the Liaison do, or what do you do with the Liaison?
HB: So, there's different aspects of the kind of work that we do because we work with our community, but we also work with local nonprofits, government agencies, law enforcement agencies. So, with our community, we like to say we're the Google of our community. Todo. We do literally everything. Let's say for a community member comes in and asks for assistance. Generally, they might come for, where can I find assistance for X, Y, Z? And so, if we are aware of a resource, we let them know and we get them connected to the resources, or if the resources are not available, we become that resource. But it can be anywhere between housing issues, education, it can be anywhere between mental health, health as well. We also talk about documents, helping community members obtain important documents for themselves, for their children, for their family. That could be either US documents or foreign documents. We do a lot of interpretation. If, let's say, a community member comes to us and says, hey, look, I've tried to reach out to this agency. Pero no me entienden. Like, they don't understand what I'm trying to say. And so, we hear their story and then we essentially translate it to something that XYZ system can understand.
DV: I see.
HB: And so, we help a lot with financial aid assistance with the hospitals. In the peak of the pandemic, we did a lot of emergency assistance for rentals, utilities, hospital assistance as well. We had a solid-- currently have also a solidarity fund that were, that's for mixed status families or no status families where the primary income earner was impacted, the family was impacted financially and so many community members were not, you know, not eligible or there was a disruption with them getting some financial assistance during the pandemic time period. And so, it was a way to help our community as well, but those are just some minor examples. We also have a free immigration clinic, so a community member can reach out to us. We try to get them connected with a free initial consultation with an immigration attorney. We also get them connected if, depending on their case, try to give them information, for example, like the Battered Immigrant Project with NC Legal Aid, for several asylum seekers, getting them information about the immigrant refugee project. So many different projects that our community members don't know are available. But then the biggest thing is education and helping our community members go and understand the process. US systems that they might not understand or they might need a little bit more guidance because the ultimate goal is for our community members to feel empowered and that they have a space with a Hispanic Liaison that they can feel at home, but then they also could feel heard and that we're advocating for them and regardless of the field, so we don't limit ourselves to just one field.
DV: What an amazing resource for the community to have.
HB: Yes, and we work, that's with the community, and then also we work, like I said, with other non-profits, government agencies, businesses as well, so they can also--. How do I say? We give them guidance and suggestions, recommendations as to, hey, this is how you can better serve our community, or you need to consider this other perspective to try to break down barriers, miscommunication, misinformation. A lot of misconceptions of, oh, that's a cultural thing, actually, it's not. For example, oh, it's a cultural thing that Hispanics live all together in one house. And I'm like, actually, no. There's so many other factors that's out of a necessity that they are having to be together. And breaking down those kinds of examples. Or why is it that the child is interpreting? No, we don't. And because--. We faced that with my mother. I can't talk to you. You're a little kid. And there might not have been interpretation services available for my mom. Or even now, within systems that, let's say, she's going to a medical appointment or she's going to get some services, the interpreter might be there, and the provider is there or whoever is providing the service but it's the interpreter looking at my mom and the provider not once do they look at my mom at any point. And I was like, okay, so--.
DV: Are they here for me?
HB: Yeah, and not only that but then my mom starts, for example, like she starts talking to an interpreter and the interpreter was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. Or actually, ask the provider. And then they're just kind of like, mm, no sé si le pregunto.
DV: There’s tension.
HB: Yeah, and sometimes, even at those points of contact, systems are improving. Not saying anything, but there's certain points in the process that need to be addressed and need to be improved. And so, we bring in those recommendations with agencies and say, hey, this can work better. Ultimately with a goal of positively impacting our community and that they feel empowered and comfortable at the point of service. Many times, I get agency leaders that say, well it's not that we're not trying, I'm like, no sweetie, it's not about that. It's also the impression that somebody gets when they're interacting with either staff or leadership. You may feel the same way if you go somewhere else and people are disconnected with you when you're getting a service. Thankfully you are able to speak the language and you can say, hey, what's up with that? You know, hey, what's going on with this? But many of times it's not even the language barriers. It's a lot about the relationships, the trust that's within providers. I always talk about the example of my mother and my children. Although they're in a dual language program, they understand Spanish and they're trying their best to speak Spanish, but there are times that they, each of them are speaking their own language, but they still understand each other because they've got that connection, they have that relationship. And my mom knows my child's intention, my child knows my mom's intention as to what we're trying to get to. And it's all about the relationship, versus it's, oh, here you go, and that's it.
DV: Can you pick out certain things in your background that you think helped to prepare you, that were part of your journey and led you to this pathway to leadership that you are in now? You mentioned for instance, translating for your mother and that is still something you do today in this role, you translate for other people, navigate systems, things like that.
HB: One of the biggest things--. And I constantly have to remind myself, because if you look at other places they think, oh, leadership is with the degree, or if you have something behind your name, or you--. I would say the non-conventional ways that leadership is portrayed. But leadership, from what I have seen, is you are getting yourself down and dirty with your community. You're there on the ground. And what you're doing is you're eventually translating to people that don't know what's going on and letting them know this is what’s happening, and this is what needs to go next. And this is what needs to go next. And sometimes I mention within people, if I, when I say deputy director, in my head I was like, maybe that's just for other people to understand where I am. But eventually, I'm just another person in the community. I'm just another--. I'm just like you and I. Which is funny, because my mom would always tell me, eres una directora. You've got to look like one. You got to act like one. I'm like, wait, what? What do you mean, ma? And she's like, no, you got to look like a directora. Almost like if I have to be in a suit and in a tie or I don't know, heels or like a businessperson that we would see at FBLA, you know, the Future Business Leaders of America. That's the image that they portray. A leader is this and you know, and you know that they’re here.
DV: They look the part traditionally.
HB: Yes. And that their presence can be felt every time they're in the room and like they're the highlight of everything and I'm like, I don't like that. And I do remember, I'm like, okay, I'm learning, that's what I need to be. And it's funny because sometimes people come around like, okay, who's the one in charge? [Laughter]. And I'm like, actually, that's me. But it's understanding that it's a role, a responsibility. It's not about the title, it just says that the title means you have more responsibilities. The responsibilities for the people that you're with, that you're working with, that you're trying to make an impact, to change. That's where I would have truly embraced it. Coming back within leadership, like I said. After, when was it, 2013, 2015, it's been the non-conventional leaders. I would always have some classmates say, within that group that graduated, there was one classmate that said, you're smart, but you don't--. Ah, what was it? He's like, you're a nerd, but you don't act like a nerd. He meant in the most positive way, he's like, you're so smart, but you don't act like a traditional person. And he was just like, I don't get it. I just don't get it. But like I said, just coming back, obviously it took several years for me to embrace that. That it's not what is portrayed out there. It's about, como dicen, okay you face the challenges, okay there's moments of, dang, like did I do it right? Am I doing this right? Dang, you question yourself like, maybe someone better could be here or, man, it's stressing me out with working with these people because, you know, I consider that I don't come at an aggressive stance when I'm working with new people, but then there's some people that are just, wow. You question yourself like, why are you here, respectfully? Like you're in this role that you have a big responsibility on making an impact on people and you close yourselves to it. And we were joking around with a colleague and my husband, actually yesterday. You know what, I realized I've got a list of people that don't like me. And he's like yeah, I realized that too. And he's like but I guess we just need to know that we're not going to be liked by everybody and that's okay. And it's about picking ourselves back up and realize okay, what haven't I figured out yet? Or what is it that I need to know more? Because obviously we're humans. And self-doubt comes and you know, hesitancy comes. But it's like, okay, these are legitimate questions, regardless of whether people look at you or talk down on you. I mentioned when they--. Just your presence around them, they make you feel like why is this idiot here? Because you see that, and growing up I would always, you know, everybody's working together, and it's been a learning curve. Learning curve that some people just don't want to work with you and it's okay. And it's okay and you know, you got to step back and look at the big picture of what you're trying to do.
DV: You face the challenge.
HB: Yeah and just like with everything there's a huge learning curve, and it's about having patience with yourself and it's harder than just, how would I say it, it's hard but at the same time it's important, it's valuable. Because you go through that moment and then you're looking at all the different points and then--. I always call it the dots are connecting in my brain. And understanding, okay this is different routes I need to take, these are different responses I need to do to whatever these challenges or opportunities are, and then you keep on going. And then you can do whatever you got to do. Si vas a limpiar, limpia. If you got to go and do something else, self-care, you do it, and then you get back up. You get back up and keep on trying. It's about not giving up in that part. I would say if there's, whoever's listening, if you are in that role, it's a matter of showing grace and kindness to other people because we're all just really trying, trying to make a difference, trying to make a change. Not only for ourselves, I always--. Obviously now I'm a mother, and I always think about the change for my children, the generations to come, my neighbors, my community. It's so cliche, I love it. How they say, I cannot change the world, but I can change my world. And my world is my family, my friends, my community.
DV: Well, speaking of your community, you were in all of these clubs in high school, then you were working in housing, then you became Deputy Director here at El Vínculo, the Hispanic Liaison. But more recently you were also Chair of ICAC, the Immigrant Community Advisory Council in Siler City. How did that come about?
HB: So, with ICAC, the Hispanic liaison had been involved with the Building Integrated Communities project with UNC in collaboration with Town of Siler City. That was around 2017 when it started. Out of that, there was an action plan, essentially telling the town of Siler City, here are some recommendations of how you can integrate immigrant communities into Siler City. Within the action plan, there's some Siler City action items, and then there's some other outside agencies that are involved in it, so it's just like a collective work. So, obviously the pandemic hit and there was a couple of pauses for one or two years and then in 2021, last year, Building Integrated Communities and El Vínculo Hispano approached the town of Siler City with a resolution to build an advisory board or committee to the town of Siler City to help guide them through this action plan, to give them recommendations with the ultimate goal of really pushing the action items among other responsibilities. So, when they made out the call for members of that committee, I submitted my letter of interest. To be part of this committee, you have to be an immigrant yourself, a child of an immigrant, a grandchild of an immigrant, having a close connection to Siler City. Either you live, or you work there or have a very specific interest with Siler City. That was pretty much the biggest responsibility, the biggest requirements really, and of course submitting the letter of interest for it. And so, I applied, and I became part of the inaugural group. There were seven of us and within our first meeting, that's where the group elected me to be their board chair. And so, within this first year, it's been a lot about learning. Learning about our role and truly understanding it on what does it mean to be in an advisory capacity? What are the regulations? But then also understanding and asking, well, why are those regulations in place? And so that we can fulfill our role to the best of our abilities. Within that group, there are wonderful professionals. There's an immigration attorney, there is a local law office manager. There is someone that is in marketing, someone that's a business owner veteran, someone that's in the school system. So, these are all professionals within our community involved in this group with different expertise and different insights to share a portion of our immigrant perspective in our community. And that's where we are today. Like I said, I'm chair over that advisory committee.
DV: Great. In your pathway to these leadership positions, do you have any challenges that you can pick out that you would want to share? Or maybe other lessons that you've learned along the way that you would want to share?
HB: Okay, well definitely there's going to be a lot of barriers that may come into play. It could be anywhere between access to education or maybe, especially if you never had that role model, which is very hard, or a mentor. But don't be afraid and ask. That was one of the things that they would always say: es que la Hannia habla mucho, she talks so much. And she will go and talk to anybody and it's not that I'm--. I might not seem like it, but I'm actually pretty shy. [Laughter]. I still like, okay, let me ask this, I need to understand this, because um so you'll find barriers either because you might not have the tools but that doesn't mean that you can't have the tools. Or you might know the resources yet. And so you'll find that. And what does that mean? That means approach people in leadership. And ask those questions. And keep on asking them until you understand. If they get annoyed, let them get annoyed. But no, you're going to keep on asking the questions, because it's important that you understand it because ultimately what's gonna happen is you will also be the advocate for the next person that comes in and share that, pass that information along, that knowledge along. And just like with anything, there's always that learning curve with anything new that you start. They say anything new with a business, anything new in education. I think that a pattern, a trend, that I've seen within the first three years of you doing anything, it's a lot about learning. Have grace with yourself while you're learning. If you can push through that, year one is a lot about, okay, here I am, I'm on the ground, and you're running. [Laughter]. Year two is your evaluation year. Okay, what happened year one? Because year one, you're going in there, you're going passionately. And year two, you're evaluating what's the processes? How did it work? How did it flow? What were the barriers that you found? What were some of the trends that you noticed? What were some of the activities that you saw for yourself, with your community, while you were doing whatever work that you were doing, and then just take a moment to step back and be like, okay, now what's going to be my response to it? What can I do next? And some of those you might not have an answer to, and that's totally fine. And then you keep on. Right now, and I can say that because we're going on to year two with the Immigrant Advisory Committee, going onto year two with our Lee County office, year two with my little one. He's that child that we fooled ourselves into thinking oh he's going be the same as the other two and we've got this and we're experienced parents and we're learning. But you keep on, you keep on and caring for yourself, you know yourself. Surround yourself with people that do care about you and people that will encourage you and people that will, maybe they might not have that answer for you, but that they're your safe space. You know to keep on keeping on.
DV: Speaking of keeping on, what do you envision for the roles that you're in right now in the future? Things you might want to accomplish, things you'd like to see your community have access to or accomplish. What do you see the future looking like, or what would you hope for the future?
HB: Well, within my role with the organization, still a lot of learning. Learning anything from A to Z. I love what I do. Growing up that was my goal. I always envisioned myself wanting to lead an organization, lead an organization, manage an organization that had the social aspect, and I am in this role. And I never thought that I would be, especially in the dark three years of my life. I was like, I am never going to accomplish that. Keep on learning that, being the best that I can for this role in this organization that I am in. With the community, giving the very best of my abilities to my community. I also see my community rising and being empowered by all the work that we do, being inspired, inspiring each other, and showcasing all the beautiful things that we have, especially in our culture and anything to do with the food, definitely, the music, the arts, the professionals that we have, the brilliant minds that might not be in traditional roles but darn, they are good at what they do. Highlighting that but then also collaborating with other communities. There is so much beauty, even when people might not think it. My son does not think it, my twelve-year-old. He is like, man this small town in boring, but there are so many beautiful members in our community. Being together, working together. There’s always going to be the hustle but there is also going to be life and enjoying. Unfortunately, vulnerable communities, communities of color--. In what we say, okay Hannia we have got to be realistic, and yeah, we are being realistic because there are different barriers that one would say would prevent our community to live that. That is when we say, okay we are going to strive for life and joy and everything that we deserve, but we are also going to hustle and raise our voices and say this is not correct. We are going to be working together collectively to make change, to make movement, make noise regardless of whoever gets frustrated, and sometimes we have to move quietly and that is totally fine. Seeing that grow in our community, and then for myself at the end of it all, I think I told you but, quiero un ranchito, I want a little casita. [Laughter]. Just like out in the country, with at most two acres, pues tan poco quiero exagerar. I just want a place that is not too big. Just enough for myself and for at least two other guests when they need to go there. My kids swear up and down that as soon as they get old, they are going to get their own places. I want that for them, but I know, especially because I would see it growing up my mother was an unofficial matriarch of our family in Siler City so our aunts and uncles would go there, pay their respects. Then they would leave and go do their things. More of like, hey big sister I am here I love you. Alright you are good? Yeah, and then you are done. Just a place that our family can go. I envision a patio that has enough gathering spaces for everybody to be out there, having their own hamaca, having a place for the kids to go and play. I want to see all the young and the old together. I want the younger ones to hear the stories of the old folks because they have some crazy stories let me tell you. [Laughter]. Learning from their experience and just a space. A space where they can be family. I will give a hand into gardening maybe. Not really, maybe just the basic plant because I don’t want to kill the plants. I’ve thought about a couple animalitos de granja, and a lot of plants, I like plants. You will just find me there.
DV: Okay, Hannia. Hannia, thank you very much for sharing your story with me.
HB: Thank you, Daniel.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcriber: Sofia Godoy and Daniel Velásquez
Interview Date: 2022 November 18
Date of Transcription: 2023 July 17 / Revisions: 2023 October 9
Es: Transcripción
Daniel Velásquez: Hannia Benítez is Deputy Director at El Vínculo Hispano, the Hispanic Liaison, and Chair of ICAC, the Immigrant Community Advisory Council at Siler City. I'm Daniel Velásquez. I am interviewing you today for your oral history. Thank you for being with me today. It is November 18, 2022.
Hannia Benítez: Thank you for having me, Daniel.
DV: Hannia, let's get started by talking about your early life, your background, and set the context for us.
HB: Okay, so my name is Hannia Benítez. I was born in Guatemala, but I came to the United States at an early age. I grew up in Chatham County, North Carolina. I am the oldest daughter de mi mami and the oldest granddaughter out of more than twenty grandchildren. I identify as Hispanic Latina. I am currently deputy director for the Hispanic Liaison.
DV: Awesome. Great.
HB: And I am a mother of three beautiful children. I have a twelve-year-old, a ten-year-old, and a two-year-old. Married for ten years. And we also have a little fur baby, Milo. [Laughter].
DV: Great, so you were born in Guatemala. How long have you lived in United States then?
HB: It’s been over 25 years. I was born in ’92. I came to the United States when I was about four or five years old, but our first thought was Los Angeles, where my grandmother was living, and she currently lives there. And then a few years, within one or two years, then we moved here to North Carolina to join the rest of mis tíos, my mother’s youngest brothers and sisters that actually lived in Siler City, so that is where I grew up in.
DV: Maybe just tell me a little bit more about growing up here in North Carolina, in Siler City.
HB: Well, how do I describe it? Well, I guess when we--. I guess just from the beginning, so just to give you context my mother was a single mother with two daughters. My other sister, that is two years younger than I. She used to be a, what would you call it, like a pre-school teacher in Guatemala, so coming to the area she would, when we first got here, she would try to teach us, well mostly me, the basics of el abecedario, the alphabet, the numbers. Everything, she would do it in Spanish because she tells me, te lo voy a enseñar en español and allá en la escuela lo aprendes en inglés, so I’m going to teach it to you in Spanish, and you need to learn it in English in school. And I did just that. Whenever she came here, she worked for--. She started working several odd jobs, but then stayed at the chicken plant at that time. She worked there for several years. The biggest priorities, the biggest important things that she would say, edúquense, you know, educate yourself, learn a lot. And so, our biggest focus was on that, just learning as much as we could, learning the language, learning so many different topics. In school, being the oldest, I often found myself being like the interpreter or the translator for my mom, and then it translated with other family members. And because they would have this expression, like, para eso vas a la escuela. That's why you're going to school. So, you need to know what it is. And sometimes it would start with school messages that were sent home, and they were only in English. And she's like, ¿Qué dice? What did that say? And so, I would tell her mom, they're talking about this, this, this, this and that and trying to get her to understand what they were trying to say and what they wanted her to do. And then that then translated to the other aspects of our lives where I started having to understand how other systems work to be able to explain it to my mom, but at the same time there's still always that passion in school I loved. I'm not going to say reading, no I love reading, it was writing that I just struggled with it because there were so many thoughts in my mind, I was like I don’t know how to put it bien. Yeah, I always loved it. We were in the traditional ESL program. When I say traditional, it would be they pull all of us that are native Spanish speakers. They pull us out of the class. They teach us some English, and they put us back in. Unfortunately, I saw many other students that that was not helpful for. But, you know, I can say I was a little bit more fortunate that although my mom didn't speak English, but she had the basic foundations in Spanish that she just kept on trying at home. And then I also tried to learn everything. I was like, okay, I got to learn about, you know. So, I was in the ESL program for several years. Then I graduated out of it, I think, maybe second or third grade. And it transitioned into the AIG program, the Academic and Intellectually Gifted. And there was a group of other students that we grew up with that were also part of the ESL program that were in that as well. So, it was just a lot of that focus on education and trying to learn. And so, that was just elementary school. Like I said, being the oldest, I was always a para arriba para abajo with a single mom. The father figures that stepped in were obviously mis tíos, and so, I would love to be with them outside. You would not see Hannia in the traditional role of being in the kitchen. My mom would always be like, Hannia, come and learn how to cook. And I would look from a distance, and I'm like, okay, I know the basics. I know how to do eggs. And then I would, I'm like, ma, I have homework. Tengo mucha tarea. And so, I would go back into the room, go do my homework. And when I finished that, then I would be outside. You would see Hannia, there was a storage next to the trailer, and you would see Hannia on top of the roof and jumping from the roof and playing with my male cousins and yeah, just doing the non-traditional female roles. And it was a little bit different with my younger sister because she loved to cook. She loved learning all the traditional dishes that was going on in the kitchen. So yeah, that's what you would see. Hannia would be out there throwing rocks. We would just be using our imagination outside and just wandering around with my cousins. And then there was the school, so my focus was school, family, school, family. It continued all through middle school as well, and then high school the same way, very much inclined to education. Middle school is when I started learning a little bit more about clubs, like Beta Club, and obviously in part because of the academics. But in high school is when we started seeing more different types of clubs because middle school it was the academics, but then other areas that I started desarrollando my leadership was in the communities of faith, when I was 12. Which was something we didn't grow up with. My mom never talked about religion, none of that. Like, we never knew about churches. It was until about--. I was 11 or 12, that one of my uncles got married, and his wife was going to church. It was funny, because they would always take me, I was their mini chaperone when they were dating. So everywhere they were going, they would take me. And so, one of the places that they started taking me was at a Community of Faith in Asheboro, about 30 minutes from Siler City. And so, I remember the first day I went to that congregation, I saw youth about my age that were playing music. At that time, I was also in band in school, playing the trumpet, the quietest musical instrument around.
DV: Sure. [Laughter].
HB: And I remember seeing a kid about my age. I was 11, and he was 13. And he was up there. And he was playing the instrument. It sounded so cool. Other kids my age was playing piano. I was like, oh my gosh. I want a space. I want to be here and see other things. And so, within that space, I quickly asked the leaders they call them I think ushers in English but at the church they would call them diáconos or servidores and I was like I want to help. Put me wherever, and they were like okay we'll do that. And Hannia was up there sweeping in church, and every service they would have Hannia in childcare in the back and in sala-cuna or the nursery. And so, I would be out there and I would love engaging and they would talk about, okay you know Sunday school, teach this to the children, learn about this. So I was doing that but then also learning some of the other things that the church leadership were doing and I loved seeing that, and I loved starting getting engaged into it at an early age. It was the church treasurer, and they were like, do you know how to write properly? Do you know how to do this? And I was like, yes, I love it, I love it. You see, Hannia in that context very much engaged. So that started middle school age. And then high school, it continued. But then in high school, that's where other clubs were available. That was like FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America. There was obviously Beta Club. I was briefly in HOSA, Health Occupational Students, something like that. It was very brief. But then the other one that really stood out for me, it was called AIM Club, Action, Inspiration, Motivation. And so, at that time, there were, everybody, I guess, unofficially called it the Hispanic club, because it was mostly Hispanics and mostly immigrant students. The first year I was there, I was excited. I was seeing everybody. Everybody engaged and that looked like me, because in the other clubs, I was the only Hispanic. And because I joined that group, there were other Hispanic kids that were coming in. But in this one it was all of us Hispanics. And so, I went in there, I think it was year two that I went in there, or year three, I don't remember, but then I became president for that club. And then at the same time becoming president for FBLA and learning more about the leadership, learning more about the roles, how do meetings run, with FBLA, everything about business and things like that. And so, and that's where I met, his name was Donald Byrne, and then he comes into my life a couple years later. But after high school, I got pregnant at an early age. I was 17, so it was my last year of high school. And how would I say it? Thankfully, all my other friends that were part of, by that time it was called SLI, Scholars Latino Initiative with UNC, for the most part, they were also the same students that were with me in the ESL program, in elementary school AIG program. They were also in there, several of them DACAmented and things like that, which is another group that we were in in high school. Thankfully by high school, those who were in there and fulfilled certain requirements, although they were undocumented, where able to go to the university. And so that's where my pause kind of ended. At the high school level, thankfully, I was able to graduate, but by that time I became a mother. Unfortunately, not only within family but with other folks I would get a lot of comments like, okay, this is the end of your life. This is it. This is over for you. And I remember trying to, I was like, okay, maybe I can't go to university, maybe I can go to a local community college. And I applied, and I got rejected. I got a letter that said because I didn't have a social security number and I was like, pero porque no? So, I was like, okay, so what do I do now, like--. And so at that time me ajunté con el padre de mi hijo. So, I got together with my son's dad. We were together for a brief couple of years. There were a couple of years of I would say just pause. A little bit of darkness throughout those years, but then I got married. Couple years, I got married in 2012, two years after I graduated. I met my now husband. And I'm not gonna say it was a fairytale love story because there were a couple of hardships in the beginning as well. But within, let's say year one, year two of our marriage, that's where they passed the deferred action. So at that point, I was able to go back to school. If I wanted to I could go to work. I could pursue so many other things, and so, by that year was I had just had my daughter, my second child. And so not only the need for a household, taking care of our household expenses, but then also an opportunity for me to get out of the house. I started going back to work. I loved to work. I was trying to learn not only the basics, but other things and it was easy for me to keep on picking up. It was a little bit hard in the beginning because a lot of folks se desesperaban like employers that they would get a little bit frustrated because I was also learning the gap.
DV: And this was around 2014?
HB: 2014, ’13 yeah. And there were a good several jobs that dismissed me in the beginning. I was like, man, but I want to, I want to learn, I'm trying to learn this, things like that. A lot of: you're not compatible, or we're cutting back positions and roles, and we’re like, okay. At that time, that's when I decided to go back to school, and I went to CCCC, Central Carolina Community College. That would have been around, that would have been around 2016, I believe, where I went to get my nursing aid certificate. After that I started, I moved back to Siler City and I was working at night at a nursing home, and coincidentally, I--. how would I describe it to you? So, it's a dead-end street where I used to live. On the sides of that street there were the apartments and that the end of the street was a nursing home. So, I lived in those apartments and the nursing home was there. So, at night I was working there. And during the day, obviously, my kids were at school one of them, the other one was still small, but family was helping me with her. And I would notice that in that apartment complex, the maintenance man was almost unofficially in charge. And so, but there were some tenant issues that were going on. And one day the owner actually was there. No, his name was Tom Smith. The day that I met Tom Smith was when we were urgently trying to find a place. We, being my younger sister and I, and we were trying to find a place on our own because we couldn't be at my mom's house. It was too crowded. And we were desperately trying to apply. And we were calling. And we're like, we're really interested. We really want to get in there. And then, I don't know why, but the owner went to the unit that we were at. He's like, I wanted to see what was this commotion about two sisters so urgently trying to get an apartment. Like what's the big deal? But he just, I guess he didn't realize that it was a big step for us. It was not a luxury apartment. The homes are--. They’re still there, those apartments are still there, but they're one of the oldest apartment complexes in Siler City. And so, he went there, and because of my observation of how the process went when you move into an apartment, when he went in there, and I guess he just, I don't know what he expected out of two Hispanic young ladies coming into an apartment on their own. And I was like, okay, I'm ready for the movement inspection, and I need you to fix this, this, this, and that. And hey, I was pointing things out in the apartment. And he's like, how do you know that? And I'm like, oh, we did this whenever I moved in somewhere else and he's like, oh okay. He's like where are you working at now? I told him I was working over there. And I remember just blurting out like well whenever you need help just reach out to me, and he did literally within that week. He's like, what about I give you a contract out. And that's when I started into the housing.
DV: Okay.
HB: And I was Liaison Services. And so, I essentially--.
DV: You clearly impressed him. [Laughter].
HB: Something happened, but I was very loud and there was another person that had been there with the team that did not like me. And every chance she got she let him know, let the owner know, and copy him in there like she's not listening, she's not learning, and I'm wasting my time with her. And because she was tasked with training me with the technical things. And there were some things that I still, it hadn't clicked yet, but I was trying. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm sure. And then my husband-- like I would read her emails and I would be crying. And my husband would be like, why don't you just quit? I'm like, no, it's because I'm not going to learn. This is free training on housing and things like that. He's like, oh my gosh. So, I was climbing my way through that, but I was trying to learn everything that had to do with housing, not only with the process, with people moving in, the inspections, working with con--. Vendors, things like that, so just taking advantage of that. I eventually transitioned from working in the nursing home to housing. I had to go because I was in a dementia unit and a lot of my patients there were passing away, and it was just a very hard thing for me.
DV: Oh, yeah.
HB: So as much as I loved it, I was like, I can't, but I then transitioned into housing. And that's where I was learning more about it and being very vocal, and I would talk to the owner and be like hey, you know, we started learning about how to do the inspections and then prioritizing. And I would be working with him, and I would be like, hey, Tom, you need to fix this. You need to fix that. And then because a lot of the people that live there, they're like, why do you care? I'm like, because this is housing, like, you can't have a hole in your roof. You can’t have your door falling apart and things like that. And I understood the business part of it, because looking at the numbers, there was no money coming in because the homes were averaging between $300 to $500 a month. $500 for a three bedroom but, you know, not a lot of repairs have been done for several years. So, I started pushing to do a couple of repairs in the time that we were in there. A couple of--. About a year or so later, that's when I reached out to Cardinal Chase, which was my second place in housing. I don't recall what was the incident, but I remember going to the office and talking to the manager there. I was talking to her because I was looking for a different apartment for somebody. And I explained to her, I'm actually with Brookwood Farms--. Brookwood Apartments, and this so-and-so needs this. And she's like, how do you know about housing? I'm like, oh, this is what I'm doing here. And then she's like, okay, well, I'm leaving. So, do you want this job? [Laughter]. So, I was like, are you serious? And she's like, yeah. She told me where to submit my résumé. And I was like, okay, this is crazy. I’m going to do it, so I did it. And then by Monday of the next week, they were like, interview. I was on the job within like two, three weeks.
DV: Wow.
HB: And it continued my role with management, learning more about that, a lot of training in that program. But throughout these roles, I was also very intentional about advocating for the people we were serving. And it's something that I've carried desde pequeña. And then I felt that responsibility and my role in them and really letting the owners know, hey, it's much more than your money, much more than the rents. And within that second role, since it was low income housing, I would try to figure out ways with the tenants there about moving in. During their stay, trying to come up with payment plans, because there were so many people that were like I don't have a full amount of money. I'm like, it's okay let's breathe and I would joke around with them I'm like I'm not going kick you out unless you kick yourself out. And they're like oh my gosh, thank you. I'm like no, really, don't thank me. This is the least that I can do because this is your home. This is not just something that I can just up and say, screw y'all, go ahead and leave. So, it was around that time I was with Cardinal Chase. In comes Don Byrne. Around that time frame, Donald Byrne who was one of the teachers from Jordan Matthews at AIM Club, that was almost like a supervisor during their club meetings, that he reached out. And he's like, hey, you know, can I ask you to join me on a meeting one day with the Hispanic Liaison? And I was like, okay, I've heard of the Liaison because my mom always uses their services. And sure, let me go to a meeting. He's like, it’s a board meeting. And they're looking for directors. And he had reached out to another former classmate as well. And within meeting one, they were like, do you, would you want to be crazy enough to join us? And I'm like, of course, thank you. So, I joined the Board of Directors. At that time, it would have been 2016, with the Hispanic Liaison. And I think by the next year, that's when I became Board Chair with the Liaison.
DV: Did you continue your other job in housing during this time?
HB: Yeah, it was during that time, because I didn't join the Liaison officially as a staff member until 2021. So, during that time, 2017, the Liaison--. 2015, 2016, there was a brief year where the Liaison closed. And so, I came in when they reopened. And so, the ’17, the organization was kicking back up and I would hear the reports from Ilana, from Janet, about all the work that they were doing, and I was like, just very impressed. Not only about the work they were doing but their passion for it, with work in our community, the issues that they were addressing. And so coincidentally around that same time, that's where Hispanic leaders from Sanford reached out to us in Siler City about opening up, well discussing opening up a different organization in this area, or a satellite office for the Hispanic Liaison because there's no organization.
DV: Here in Sanford?
HB: In Sanford, yeah. There was in 2000--. I don't know what, in the early 2000s, there was a Hispanic Task Force here in Lee County, but it dissolved within a few years. So, after that, there was nothing in this area. And a lot of Lee County residents were going to Siler City to get, ask for help.
DV: Like what kind of help? What does the Liaison do, or what do you do with the Liaison?
HB: So, there's different aspects of the kind of work that we do because we work with our community, but we also work with local nonprofits, government agencies, law enforcement agencies. So, with our community, we like to say we're the Google of our community. Todo. We do literally everything. Let's say for a community member comes in and asks for assistance. Generally, they might come for, where can I find assistance for X, Y, Z? And so, if we are aware of a resource, we let them know and we get them connected to the resources, or if the resources are not available, we become that resource. But it can be anywhere between housing issues, education, it can be anywhere between mental health, health as well. We also talk about documents, helping community members obtain important documents for themselves, for their children, for their family. That could be either US documents or foreign documents. We do a lot of interpretation. If, let's say, a community member comes to us and says, hey, look, I've tried to reach out to this agency. Pero no me entienden. Like, they don't understand what I'm trying to say. And so, we hear their story and then we essentially translate it to something that XYZ system can understand.
DV: I see.
HB: And so, we help a lot with financial aid assistance with the hospitals. In the peak of the pandemic, we did a lot of emergency assistance for rentals, utilities, hospital assistance as well. We had a solid-- currently have also a solidarity fund that were, that's for mixed status families or no status families where the primary income earner was impacted, the family was impacted financially and so many community members were not, you know, not eligible or there was a disruption with them getting some financial assistance during the pandemic time period. And so, it was a way to help our community as well, but those are just some minor examples. We also have a free immigration clinic, so a community member can reach out to us. We try to get them connected with a free initial consultation with an immigration attorney. We also get them connected if, depending on their case, try to give them information, for example, like the Battered Immigrant Project with NC Legal Aid, for several asylum seekers, getting them information about the immigrant refugee project. So many different projects that our community members don't know are available. But then the biggest thing is education and helping our community members go and understand the process. US systems that they might not understand or they might need a little bit more guidance because the ultimate goal is for our community members to feel empowered and that they have a space with a Hispanic Liaison that they can feel at home, but then they also could feel heard and that we're advocating for them and regardless of the field, so we don't limit ourselves to just one field.
DV: What an amazing resource for the community to have.
HB: Yes, and we work, that's with the community, and then also we work, like I said, with other non-profits, government agencies, businesses as well, so they can also--. How do I say? We give them guidance and suggestions, recommendations as to, hey, this is how you can better serve our community, or you need to consider this other perspective to try to break down barriers, miscommunication, misinformation. A lot of misconceptions of, oh, that's a cultural thing, actually, it's not. For example, oh, it's a cultural thing that Hispanics live all together in one house. And I'm like, actually, no. There's so many other factors that's out of a necessity that they are having to be together. And breaking down those kinds of examples. Or why is it that the child is interpreting? No, we don't. And because--. We faced that with my mother. I can't talk to you. You're a little kid. And there might not have been interpretation services available for my mom. Or even now, within systems that, let's say, she's going to a medical appointment or she's going to get some services, the interpreter might be there, and the provider is there or whoever is providing the service but it's the interpreter looking at my mom and the provider not once do they look at my mom at any point. And I was like, okay, so--.
DV: Are they here for me?
HB: Yeah, and not only that but then my mom starts, for example, like she starts talking to an interpreter and the interpreter was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. Or actually, ask the provider. And then they're just kind of like, mm, no sé si le pregunto.
DV: There’s tension.
HB: Yeah, and sometimes, even at those points of contact, systems are improving. Not saying anything, but there's certain points in the process that need to be addressed and need to be improved. And so, we bring in those recommendations with agencies and say, hey, this can work better. Ultimately with a goal of positively impacting our community and that they feel empowered and comfortable at the point of service. Many times, I get agency leaders that say, well it's not that we're not trying, I'm like, no sweetie, it's not about that. It's also the impression that somebody gets when they're interacting with either staff or leadership. You may feel the same way if you go somewhere else and people are disconnected with you when you're getting a service. Thankfully you are able to speak the language and you can say, hey, what's up with that? You know, hey, what's going on with this? But many of times it's not even the language barriers. It's a lot about the relationships, the trust that's within providers. I always talk about the example of my mother and my children. Although they're in a dual language program, they understand Spanish and they're trying their best to speak Spanish, but there are times that they, each of them are speaking their own language, but they still understand each other because they've got that connection, they have that relationship. And my mom knows my child's intention, my child knows my mom's intention as to what we're trying to get to. And it's all about the relationship, versus it's, oh, here you go, and that's it.
DV: Can you pick out certain things in your background that you think helped to prepare you, that were part of your journey and led you to this pathway to leadership that you are in now? You mentioned for instance, translating for your mother and that is still something you do today in this role, you translate for other people, navigate systems, things like that.
HB: One of the biggest things--. And I constantly have to remind myself, because if you look at other places they think, oh, leadership is with the degree, or if you have something behind your name, or you--. I would say the non-conventional ways that leadership is portrayed. But leadership, from what I have seen, is you are getting yourself down and dirty with your community. You're there on the ground. And what you're doing is you're eventually translating to people that don't know what's going on and letting them know this is what’s happening, and this is what needs to go next. And this is what needs to go next. And sometimes I mention within people, if I, when I say deputy director, in my head I was like, maybe that's just for other people to understand where I am. But eventually, I'm just another person in the community. I'm just another--. I'm just like you and I. Which is funny, because my mom would always tell me, eres una directora. You've got to look like one. You got to act like one. I'm like, wait, what? What do you mean, ma? And she's like, no, you got to look like a directora. Almost like if I have to be in a suit and in a tie or I don't know, heels or like a businessperson that we would see at FBLA, you know, the Future Business Leaders of America. That's the image that they portray. A leader is this and you know, and you know that they’re here.
DV: They look the part traditionally.
HB: Yes. And that their presence can be felt every time they're in the room and like they're the highlight of everything and I'm like, I don't like that. And I do remember, I'm like, okay, I'm learning, that's what I need to be. And it's funny because sometimes people come around like, okay, who's the one in charge? [Laughter]. And I'm like, actually, that's me. But it's understanding that it's a role, a responsibility. It's not about the title, it just says that the title means you have more responsibilities. The responsibilities for the people that you're with, that you're working with, that you're trying to make an impact, to change. That's where I would have truly embraced it. Coming back within leadership, like I said. After, when was it, 2013, 2015, it's been the non-conventional leaders. I would always have some classmates say, within that group that graduated, there was one classmate that said, you're smart, but you don't--. Ah, what was it? He's like, you're a nerd, but you don't act like a nerd. He meant in the most positive way, he's like, you're so smart, but you don't act like a traditional person. And he was just like, I don't get it. I just don't get it. But like I said, just coming back, obviously it took several years for me to embrace that. That it's not what is portrayed out there. It's about, como dicen, okay you face the challenges, okay there's moments of, dang, like did I do it right? Am I doing this right? Dang, you question yourself like, maybe someone better could be here or, man, it's stressing me out with working with these people because, you know, I consider that I don't come at an aggressive stance when I'm working with new people, but then there's some people that are just, wow. You question yourself like, why are you here, respectfully? Like you're in this role that you have a big responsibility on making an impact on people and you close yourselves to it. And we were joking around with a colleague and my husband, actually yesterday. You know what, I realized I've got a list of people that don't like me. And he's like yeah, I realized that too. And he's like but I guess we just need to know that we're not going to be liked by everybody and that's okay. And it's about picking ourselves back up and realize okay, what haven't I figured out yet? Or what is it that I need to know more? Because obviously we're humans. And self-doubt comes and you know, hesitancy comes. But it's like, okay, these are legitimate questions, regardless of whether people look at you or talk down on you. I mentioned when they--. Just your presence around them, they make you feel like why is this idiot here? Because you see that, and growing up I would always, you know, everybody's working together, and it's been a learning curve. Learning curve that some people just don't want to work with you and it's okay. And it's okay and you know, you got to step back and look at the big picture of what you're trying to do.
DV: You face the challenge.
HB: Yeah and just like with everything there's a huge learning curve, and it's about having patience with yourself and it's harder than just, how would I say it, it's hard but at the same time it's important, it's valuable. Because you go through that moment and then you're looking at all the different points and then--. I always call it the dots are connecting in my brain. And understanding, okay this is different routes I need to take, these are different responses I need to do to whatever these challenges or opportunities are, and then you keep on going. And then you can do whatever you got to do. Si vas a limpiar, limpia. If you got to go and do something else, self-care, you do it, and then you get back up. You get back up and keep on trying. It's about not giving up in that part. I would say if there's, whoever's listening, if you are in that role, it's a matter of showing grace and kindness to other people because we're all just really trying, trying to make a difference, trying to make a change. Not only for ourselves, I always--. Obviously now I'm a mother, and I always think about the change for my children, the generations to come, my neighbors, my community. It's so cliche, I love it. How they say, I cannot change the world, but I can change my world. And my world is my family, my friends, my community.
DV: Well, speaking of your community, you were in all of these clubs in high school, then you were working in housing, then you became Deputy Director here at El Vínculo, the Hispanic Liaison. But more recently you were also Chair of ICAC, the Immigrant Community Advisory Council in Siler City. How did that come about?
HB: So, with ICAC, the Hispanic liaison had been involved with the Building Integrated Communities project with UNC in collaboration with Town of Siler City. That was around 2017 when it started. Out of that, there was an action plan, essentially telling the town of Siler City, here are some recommendations of how you can integrate immigrant communities into Siler City. Within the action plan, there's some Siler City action items, and then there's some other outside agencies that are involved in it, so it's just like a collective work. So, obviously the pandemic hit and there was a couple of pauses for one or two years and then in 2021, last year, Building Integrated Communities and El Vínculo Hispano approached the town of Siler City with a resolution to build an advisory board or committee to the town of Siler City to help guide them through this action plan, to give them recommendations with the ultimate goal of really pushing the action items among other responsibilities. So, when they made out the call for members of that committee, I submitted my letter of interest. To be part of this committee, you have to be an immigrant yourself, a child of an immigrant, a grandchild of an immigrant, having a close connection to Siler City. Either you live, or you work there or have a very specific interest with Siler City. That was pretty much the biggest responsibility, the biggest requirements really, and of course submitting the letter of interest for it. And so, I applied, and I became part of the inaugural group. There were seven of us and within our first meeting, that's where the group elected me to be their board chair. And so, within this first year, it's been a lot about learning. Learning about our role and truly understanding it on what does it mean to be in an advisory capacity? What are the regulations? But then also understanding and asking, well, why are those regulations in place? And so that we can fulfill our role to the best of our abilities. Within that group, there are wonderful professionals. There's an immigration attorney, there is a local law office manager. There is someone that is in marketing, someone that's a business owner veteran, someone that's in the school system. So, these are all professionals within our community involved in this group with different expertise and different insights to share a portion of our immigrant perspective in our community. And that's where we are today. Like I said, I'm chair over that advisory committee.
DV: Great. In your pathway to these leadership positions, do you have any challenges that you can pick out that you would want to share? Or maybe other lessons that you've learned along the way that you would want to share?
HB: Okay, well definitely there's going to be a lot of barriers that may come into play. It could be anywhere between access to education or maybe, especially if you never had that role model, which is very hard, or a mentor. But don't be afraid and ask. That was one of the things that they would always say: es que la Hannia habla mucho, she talks so much. And she will go and talk to anybody and it's not that I'm--. I might not seem like it, but I'm actually pretty shy. [Laughter]. I still like, okay, let me ask this, I need to understand this, because um so you'll find barriers either because you might not have the tools but that doesn't mean that you can't have the tools. Or you might know the resources yet. And so you'll find that. And what does that mean? That means approach people in leadership. And ask those questions. And keep on asking them until you understand. If they get annoyed, let them get annoyed. But no, you're going to keep on asking the questions, because it's important that you understand it because ultimately what's gonna happen is you will also be the advocate for the next person that comes in and share that, pass that information along, that knowledge along. And just like with anything, there's always that learning curve with anything new that you start. They say anything new with a business, anything new in education. I think that a pattern, a trend, that I've seen within the first three years of you doing anything, it's a lot about learning. Have grace with yourself while you're learning. If you can push through that, year one is a lot about, okay, here I am, I'm on the ground, and you're running. [Laughter]. Year two is your evaluation year. Okay, what happened year one? Because year one, you're going in there, you're going passionately. And year two, you're evaluating what's the processes? How did it work? How did it flow? What were the barriers that you found? What were some of the trends that you noticed? What were some of the activities that you saw for yourself, with your community, while you were doing whatever work that you were doing, and then just take a moment to step back and be like, okay, now what's going to be my response to it? What can I do next? And some of those you might not have an answer to, and that's totally fine. And then you keep on. Right now, and I can say that because we're going on to year two with the Immigrant Advisory Committee, going onto year two with our Lee County office, year two with my little one. He's that child that we fooled ourselves into thinking oh he's going be the same as the other two and we've got this and we're experienced parents and we're learning. But you keep on, you keep on and caring for yourself, you know yourself. Surround yourself with people that do care about you and people that will encourage you and people that will, maybe they might not have that answer for you, but that they're your safe space. You know to keep on keeping on.
DV: Speaking of keeping on, what do you envision for the roles that you're in right now in the future? Things you might want to accomplish, things you'd like to see your community have access to or accomplish. What do you see the future looking like, or what would you hope for the future?
HB: Well, within my role with the organization, still a lot of learning. Learning anything from A to Z. I love what I do. Growing up that was my goal. I always envisioned myself wanting to lead an organization, lead an organization, manage an organization that had the social aspect, and I am in this role. And I never thought that I would be, especially in the dark three years of my life. I was like, I am never going to accomplish that. Keep on learning that, being the best that I can for this role in this organization that I am in. With the community, giving the very best of my abilities to my community. I also see my community rising and being empowered by all the work that we do, being inspired, inspiring each other, and showcasing all the beautiful things that we have, especially in our culture and anything to do with the food, definitely, the music, the arts, the professionals that we have, the brilliant minds that might not be in traditional roles but darn, they are good at what they do. Highlighting that but then also collaborating with other communities. There is so much beauty, even when people might not think it. My son does not think it, my twelve-year-old. He is like, man this small town in boring, but there are so many beautiful members in our community. Being together, working together. There’s always going to be the hustle but there is also going to be life and enjoying. Unfortunately, vulnerable communities, communities of color--. In what we say, okay Hannia we have got to be realistic, and yeah, we are being realistic because there are different barriers that one would say would prevent our community to live that. That is when we say, okay we are going to strive for life and joy and everything that we deserve, but we are also going to hustle and raise our voices and say this is not correct. We are going to be working together collectively to make change, to make movement, make noise regardless of whoever gets frustrated, and sometimes we have to move quietly and that is totally fine. Seeing that grow in our community, and then for myself at the end of it all, I think I told you but, quiero un ranchito, I want a little casita. [Laughter]. Just like out in the country, with at most two acres, pues tan poco quiero exagerar. I just want a place that is not too big. Just enough for myself and for at least two other guests when they need to go there. My kids swear up and down that as soon as they get old, they are going to get their own places. I want that for them, but I know, especially because I would see it growing up my mother was an unofficial matriarch of our family in Siler City so our aunts and uncles would go there, pay their respects. Then they would leave and go do their things. More of like, hey big sister I am here I love you. Alright you are good? Yeah, and then you are done. Just a place that our family can go. I envision a patio that has enough gathering spaces for everybody to be out there, having their own hamaca, having a place for the kids to go and play. I want to see all the young and the old together. I want the younger ones to hear the stories of the old folks because they have some crazy stories let me tell you. [Laughter]. Learning from their experience and just a space. A space where they can be family. I will give a hand into gardening maybe. Not really, maybe just the basic plant because I don’t want to kill the plants. I’ve thought about a couple animalitos de granja, and a lot of plants, I like plants. You will just find me there.
DV: Okay, Hannia. Hannia, thank you very much for sharing your story with me.
HB: Thank you, Daniel.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
Transcriber: Sofia Godoy and Daniel Velásquez
Interview Date: 2022 November 18
Date of Transcription: 2023 July 17 / Revisions: 2023 October 9
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
R-1007 -- Benítez, Hannia.
Description
An account of the resource
Born in Guatemala but raised in Siler City, North Carolina, Hannia Benítez currently serves her local communities as Deputy Director at El Vínculo Hispano/The Hispanic Liaison’s office in Lee County and as Chair of Siler City’s Immigrant Community Advisory Committee (ICAC). Hannia shares her foundational experiences, including the need to be her family’s interpreter during her childhood and her engagement in several clubs throughout High School. A few years later, the advent of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program helped her during a difficult time in her personal life by opening opportunities for employment and education. While working in the housing sector, Hannia joined the Board of Directors of El Vínculo Hispano, eventually serving as board chair and later transitioning to staff as deputy director of El Vínculo’s first satellite office in Lee County. Lastly, she shares her experience during her first year serving in ICAC, which she explains has been a time for asking questions and learning the workings of local government in order to position their efforts in the coming years. Throughout, Hannia shares advice for future leaders by describing her sense of responsibility for the people and communities that she serves while showing grace and kindness in the face of adversity.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-18
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/29337">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Language
A language of the resource
R1007_Audio.mp3
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R1007_Audio.mp3
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/37f86fce7e02d92272547550d4230bed.mp3
bf40829c24e86dbdac841a85df91cefa
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/aae9ef411e146c216054909467ac8f2e.pdf
0ce00d99bfeebad86e677d5690ac09c5
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0991
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2019-05-21
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Sánchez, Alba.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Community organizers
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1975
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Heredia -- Heredia -- Costa Rica
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Charlotte -- Mecklenburg County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-84.119766 9.998141),1975,1;POINT(-80.841141 35.223789),2001,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Carlton, Marisa.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Alba Sánchez is the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition in Charlotte, North Carolina. She is originally from Costa Rica from a small town called San Rafael in the province of Heredia. She emigrated to the United States when she was twenty-six years old. In this interview, Sánchez explains what San Rafael was like, referring to the landscape of the region and the size of the town. She discusses her childhood and what life was like for her and her family living in Costa Rica and mentions that all of her family members still reside there. Sánchez mentions attending the University Nacional of La Heredia, one of the top schools in her state. She describes what her journey of coming to the United States was like and the challenges she faced once she arrived. She tells me about her drive and passion to learn English and how that was a major motivational factor for her once she was in North Carolina. Sánchez later explains her reasons for moving to Charlotte, North Carolina, and how she became the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition. She shares that she first became involved with the Coalition as a community member and later as a volunteer. She describes the multitude of services that the Latin American Coalition offers, such as citizenship workshops, ESL classes, translation services, and other resources for the community. She also touches on the biggest challenges that she sees the Latino community struggles with the most in Charlotte. Sánchez closes the interview by telling me about her immigration case and stating her love for this United States and her community.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Alba Sánchez, 21 May 2019, R-0991, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28588
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Citizenship and immigration; Community and social services and programs; Migratory Experience; Receiving Communities; Social networks
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Hi. My name is Marisa Carlton and I’m here with Alba Sánchez and we’re going to interview her about her migration story. Hola Alba. How are you?
Alba Sánchez: Good. How are you Marisa?
MC: Good. Thank you for meeting with me. So, first of all, I want to ask, [00:00:19] where are you from originally and can you tell me a little bit about the area?
AS: Yes. I’m from Costa Rica. A city that is called Heredia. It’s a very-. It’s a rural area but very pretty with a lot of nature, rivers, rainforests. It’s a small town. We are about six hundred people. Maybe eight hundred. We know each other. A lot of these families are family members.
MC: And—.
AS: [coughs].
MC: Did you always live there?
AS: Yes. Yes. I lived there my twenty-six years. I went to school there. I went to high school there and also, I went to college. So, it is two, three hours to go to high school or college, but we were able to go yes.
MC: Where did you go to school?
AS: You mean college?
MC: Yeah.
AS: The Universidad Nacional. The National University in Heredia.
MC: Oh, wow.
AS: It’s one of the three national universities in Costa Rica.
MC: Do you still—
MC: Do you still have family there?
AS: Everyone.
MC: All your family?
AS: All. My mom. My dad. My brothers. Everyone is in Costa Rica. Yes.
MC: Wow. So, can you tell me a little about your childhood? What living there was like for you? Your favorite memories?
AS: It was a beautiful childhood. Again, it’s nature. I love nature. We were able to play all the time outside. You know, play, go to the rivers, with family members play soccer, going to school. It was a very, very healthy childhood. We didn’t have electronics. The first time I had a TV I was twenty years. [laughs]. The same thing for the telephone. We were very close to our families. So, really our friends were our cousins, our uncles, my mom, my dad, my grandfather. People that lived around us.
MC: Right.
AS: It was a safety community. Safe community.
MC: [00:02:41] When did you choose to migrate to the United States?
AS: The first time I decided to come to the United States was in 1998. And the reason I decided to come was because when I was a teenager, I had one of my best friends that she moved to North Carolina with her family. And, we always keep that communication and I always wanted to visit my friend. I always wanted to speak English too. So, that was part of my big dream to come to the United States. So, through the times I kept her friendship, and I went to apply for a visa in 1998. I was rejected. I went to apply in 2000. I did not was approved. And I went to apply again in December 2001. And that was the time that they allowed me to come with a visitor’s visa. And, that’s how I got here.
MC: Why do you think that they rejected you originally? Is that just how that process is?
AS: It was part of the process but it was also, Marisa, because you were coming from a--. I would say honestly, you were coming from a humble family. You do not have land or big accounts or you know. Also, it was my age. I was in a very critical age. They think, she doesn’t have anything, no family, no husband, no kids. She’s going to go and going to stay there. But, I applied three times and I am here.
MC: And, did you come alone originally? Or, can you tell me more about that?
AS: Yes. I flew here in December 23, 2001. And, I got to my friends in Raleigh. I stayed at her house about four months. The intention again, was to visit my friends and also to go, to be able to go to the CPCC to learn English. Somehow, in my mind, I was thinking that I was going to learn English in six months. I don’t know how, but it was like that. And, I was thinking, it was that--. My expectation was that I was going to go back to Costa Rica and continue college over there.
MC: And what were you studying there? I forgot to ask.
AS: Education. Rural education. The reason for me to study that--. It was really--. My main [inaudible] were teachers. And also, I wanted to work on the Indian reservations in Costa Rica. So that was part of why I was interested in that career.
MC: Wow. What was for you, the most difficult part about leaving Costa Rica and your home?
AS: Well, in that time, Marisa, when I left it was not difficult time because I was coming for a few months. I was never thinking or planning that I was going to be here for so many years. And now, almost twenty years. And it took me almost eight years to be able to go back to Costa Rica. So really the difficult time was when I realized my visa expired. I didn’t get a ticket to go back to Costa Rica. And I find myself alone without knowing what to do but with one thing is that I was going to speak English. No matter what. But that was my goal to be here.
MC: Wow. And so, [00:06:26] what was your journey like coming here? By yourself? On a plane trip? Was that your first plane trip? Just tell me more about that experience.
AS: Yeah, it was my first plane trip and it was traumatic [laughs]. I would say it was kind of exciting but also traumatic because again, I didn’t speak the language. I didn’t have any problem on the airplane in Costa Rica, but I have to stop and it was in Houston, Texas. And I had to transfer to another airplane. But I didn’t know how to ask for it. Where to go. The airport was big that I couldn’t see the door. I could not read my ticket. I remember my friend told me that in every counter there was supposed to be people that speak Engl--. Spanish. But the two, three times that I asked nobody speaks Spanish. But in the time that I was asking, one girl from Mexico-, that was my first time that I met someone from Mexico, she heard me. She come to me because she saw that I could not communicate and she asked me where are you going? So, I told her, Charlotte, NC. Raleigh NC. And she told me give me your ticket. So, she saw my ticket and she told me oh you’re really late, you have to run [laughs]. And so, I didn’t know to run where. So, she told me just follow me. And she took me to the other place. The door where I needed to be. And so, it was, the airport was so big and I remember I was running taking upstairs downstairs but I made it. I got to the airplane and I got to Raleigh. It was almost ten o’clock. And I left Costa Rica at six AM in the morning. So, it was yes, a little bit traumatic but it was also an adventure. It was exciting. It was something totally new for me.
MC: And, coming from a rural place in Costa Rica, what surprised you the most when you got to the United States?
AS: How everything was so big. The streets were big. The buildings. Also, I loved that everything was so clean. So many cars. That was the first impression more because I came from a rural area so I was not living in the city. So that was nice. That was something that caught my attention.
MC: Yeah. And before you came to the United States, what did you think it was going to be like before you got here? Did you hear anything on the news or from other people? Did you have this--. What did you imagine it being like?
AS: To be honest Marisa, I did not have any imagination where I was coming. Now, after so many years living here, sometimes I think, how I did not even look at the map? Where was this city I was going to? But again, coming from a small country--beautiful country--but we are a little close minded in that time. I’m talking about in the 90’s. Costa Rica is, it was to believe that it was the best country in Central America. And really, you really did not know much about your surroundings. You know about your country and you study when you go to high school, you go to college, you study about Europe. Not really about Central America or the countries around Costa Rica. So, to be honest, I was kind of ignorant. I don’t know how because I was going to college. You’re supposed to learn all of those things but I think I was. I don’t know, maybe living on the clouds [laughs]. I was a teenager.
MC: Yeah, and so when you got here, [00:10:51] what was it like for you? The years after you got here? What was life like for you? How did you get settled down?
AS: So, at that time, it was when I really started having a difficult time adjusting. So, after four months living with my friend, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. Somehow, they--. So, the conversation was, the intention was that I was going to come and stay for six months. Going to college. Community college. Learn some English and go back to Costa Rica. But when I got here, my friend was different. My friend was not the friend that I used to know when we were fourteen. She was married. She has kids. Her culture also changed. So, we did not feel comfortable with one another. I would say that. So, it was a point where she told me if I was not going to be in her house cleaning, babysitting, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. That was the time when I realized that I was alone.
MC: Wow. And what your next steps after that? If you don’t mind sharing.
AS: So, after that. Because I talked to my friend and explained to her, and she already knew my visa-- it was going to be expired. I didn’t have a ticket ready to go back to Costa Rica. So, she told me I can help you to find an American family that will allow you to stay at her house. And, she told me I will help you to find a job. And you decide whenever you’re ready to go back to Costa Rica. But, I was going to live with a family that I never saw in my life. I didn’t speak English. I didn’t have a car. So, I was just going to live in a house, you know like--.
MC: With strangers.
AS: Yes! With strange people that I cannot even communicate with. So, again, because my dream to learn English, I said it’s okay. So, I went, and I moved with this family that was again, in Raleigh in North Carolina. And I stayed in her house, in their house. They were a married couple. They did not have kids. And honestly, they were very welcoming. And even when we cannot communicate we were writing with a paper on a dictionary anything we want to ask or say, or question, or direction. They were very kind to me and to--. That is the main people that I appreciate every single day for me to be here today because they offered their house to me.
MC: Yeah. Wow. And how old were you then?
AS: I was twenty-six.
MC: Okay.
AS: And so, once I started living with this family I also found a job in a factory. And also, I was able to register at the community college. And in that time the community college offers transportation. So, I was going to the community college from seven thirty to maybe noon. They took me back to the house where I was living and I was going to work at the factor start at three o’clock to midnight. And that was every single day. Sometimes when I went to the CPCC classes, I was so sleepy and tired and I didn’t understand any English yet. So, I did that for maybe four months until really, I started understanding the language a little bit. I stayed with that family for about eight months. Almost a year. And I moved to Charlotte. When I left, when I moved to Charlotte I did not say bye to my friend because by that time they did not speak to me anymore. So, with that, I realized that I had become undocumented. That again, I didn’t have any family and was also poor. And I was in a big country where I was alone. But now, it was up to me to stay here. To go back. To do something or not. And, again, part of my dream to speak English, that passion, somehow helped me or gave me the strength to continue every day here until today that I’m a citizen now.
MC: Yeah. Congratulations. [00:16:06] How did you decide to come to Charlotte? Because you were living in Raleigh, right?
AS: Yeah. When I was in Raleigh, I did communicate with two friends that they were living here in Charlotte. Two sisters. One of them, she was my classmate in high school and the other she was classmate in college. And, they did move to Charlotte around--. One of the sisters was around the same year I moved. And her sister was here a long time ago. And I talked to them and I explained to them, you know, that I was there alone. That I was needing some support. And so, they were kind and nice and also, they know me in Costa Rica. We spend time over there. They went to pick me up and we ended in Charlotte. And at the end we were five Costa Rican girls living together. One from Michigan because she was here a long time ago but she was living in Michigan but she was also moving to Charlotte. Another three ladies from the same city, Heredia, with me. We were three. And another lady from a different city in Costa Rica, and we started living together. We started finding a job, working and going to community college. YMCA. Every ESL classes in the city we were going.
MC: What--. Did you finish the classes that you were taking in Raleigh? Did you get a degree? Or could you tell me.
AS: No, it was English--.
MC: Oh! It was just English.
AS: Basic ESL classes.
MC: English classes. Oh, okay. At the college.
AS: Yeah because that was the only program you can register when you were undocumented.
MC: Okay. Wow. And so, you started taking college classes here in Charlotte?
AS: Now. Yes. Years ago, but in that period of time from the beginning my first five, six years it was just ESL basic classes. Basic ESL classes.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:18] How did you get involved with the Latin American Coalition?
AS: So, when I moved to Charlotte, I mentioned before, I started my life here. I found a job. I continued going to ESL classes. Later in life I married. I got married here and I started knowing the city. By a newspaper, I believe, I knew about the Latin American Coalition and I started attending some of their workshops. And during that time, I was also, I come for the services. You know, I have some questions about some services and the city, and this was the main place to come. So, that was another way that I got connected with the Latin American Coalition. By 2007, around 2008, I was kind of like a volunteer with the Latin American Coalition in different workshops and learning about civic engagement. Learning about community resources in our community. Learning about immigration policies. You know, just learning about the city where you were living now. One of the great ways was to be a volunteer, meeting different people, also continue learning English, about the resources. And it was like that how I became part of the Latin American Coalition at the beginning as a volunteer in 2006, 2007.
MC: And then, how did you get the position as the Immigrant Welcome Center Manger?
AS: So, last year, it was a position opening. It was actually people around the community that contacted me to--. Letting me know about the position. I was looking for a position. I was in transition from a job to another and I applied for this position. The reason I applied for this was because it was very direct to the Latino families, assisting them with their issues, with the challenges. Very similar things I experience in my few years here. So, I wanted t to be a part of something that I really can make a difference in people’s lives. A meaningful job. I do want to be a part of that. And it was how I applied for the position and now I am here. So that was how I start with this position.
MC: Yeah. And [00:21:05] can you tell me more about the role of the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager? What you do every day?
AS: Yes. Here the Immigrant Welcome Center will assist the community in two ways. One of those is crisis. It can be crisis about shelter, bills, rent, food, even clothes. So, we assist families and we coordinate services with crisis assistance and the shelters around the city. Another way we serve the community is connecting them with different resources, assisting them to register their kids for school, to connect them with the health department, with the local clinics, with the lawyers, with the court system. With the services like the YMCA, child care resources. All of those services that are in our community that helps our community to improve their quality of life. But a lot of the times because of the language barrier, because maybe they just moved to the city, or to the state, or they were new arrivals like me. Sometime in the past, they don’t know about these services. So, that’s another way we connect them or we serve them. We also provide basic ESL classes, advance ESL classes--that’s conversational classes, basic computer classes. And a lot of the series of workshops that are needed for them to know more about the resources that integrate with our community.
MC: Wow. Working in your position, [00:23:00] what are the biggest challenges that you see that Latinos in the community struggle with? Or come in to talk more about?
AS: Personally, I believe, Marisa, the biggest struggle for our community is not to speak the language because again, from personal experiences, once you speak the language, you develop your confidence. Because you can communicate, you can ask for what you need. But, not to be able to do that creates a lot of fear, a lot of isolation, anxiety. So, I will say that is the biggest challenge for our community. That, but also immigration, you know. Because there are so many immigration policies at the federal level, at the state level that are continuously affecting the community and not just the Latino community, the community in general. So that you know, you’re working in one area in your life and there is a new policy that is coming and can stop this process for you. So, that is something that is affecting our community constantly.
MC: And so, [00:24:20] can you talk more about the resources the Latin American Coalition provides? The different workshops and the Immigrant Center?
AS: Yeah. We offer…one of the workshops, for example, is divorce and custody workshops. We offer that once a month. That is a collaboration with the North Carolina or Mecklenburg County court system because family law is very expensive so our families sometimes are totally unable to pay for a family lawyer. So, the court offers that workshop once a month. They do it in Spanish. They bring all the forms. They help the individual to complete and helping them to understand how to submit the forms and what is the process, how much maybe it takes. A great workshop. That’s one of the things we do. We also collaborate with the CMPD (Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department). So, the individuals they can have a presentation here about different topics about the community’s safety. So, we create that space. We also bring lawyers from different areas that can assist our family with fraud, scams. Like I said, family law, immigration. Consumer protection. Tax issues. So, we offer those kinds of workshops based on the community needs. I will say that this is some of the workshops we offer. We also offer translation and notary services. We have been-- if they need to send documentation to different organizations that are requesting this, but they do not own a computer or they do not know how to use it, or they don’t have an email. So, this is like a one stop place that they can do everything they need in their own language and we do not do the things for them. We help them. We assist them because we want for them to develop their confidence. To develop their potential. That they can do so many things by themselves and they just need to believe in themselves and you know, follow the process to be able to complete it.
MC: Well thank you. That’s all the questions I have. [00:26:49] Is there anything you’d like to add? Any last comments?
AS: No. Oh well, maybe what I mentioned before about my immigration case. It took me many years. So, it’s going to be nineteen years this December. So, to become a legal resident, to become a citizen, it’s not something that happens in five years. It can take years for an individual. So, to have that support from our community, from our institutions, we’re really helping individuals. No matter which country he is from or which language they speak. Allow them to be a part of the community and they also like today, Marisa. I am a citizen. Yes. And thank God for that. But before a citizen, I was doing everything I can to support, not just my Latino community, but every community member in so many different ways. Because, we do love our community. We do love this country. We do want the best for this country. So, yes. We do speak a different language but our heart is here. Our families are here. And we are not so different than sometimes people think. So thank you for allowing me to share a little bit about my personal story. Thank you for the job that you are doing. I think that will be all.
MC: Alright, thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Organizadores comunitarios
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Temas
Ciudadanía e inmigración; Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Experiencia migratoria; Comunidades receptoras; Redes sociales
Es: Transcripción
Marisa Carlton: Hi. My name is Marisa Carlton and I’m here with Alba Sánchez and we’re going to interview her about her migration story. Hola Alba. How are you?
Alba Sánchez: Good. How are you Marisa?
MC: Good. Thank you for meeting with me. So, first of all, I want to ask, [00:00:19] where are you from originally and can you tell me a little bit about the area?
AS: Yes. I’m from Costa Rica. A city that is called Heredia. It’s a very-. It’s a rural area but very pretty with a lot of nature, rivers, rainforests. It’s a small town. We are about six hundred people. Maybe eight hundred. We know each other. A lot of these families are family members.
MC: And—.
AS: [coughs].
MC: Did you always live there?
AS: Yes. Yes. I lived there my twenty-six years. I went to school there. I went to high school there and also, I went to college. So, it is two, three hours to go to high school or college, but we were able to go yes.
MC: Where did you go to school?
AS: You mean college?
MC: Yeah.
AS: The Universidad Nacional. The National University in Heredia.
MC: Oh, wow.
AS: It’s one of the three national universities in Costa Rica.
MC: Do you still—
MC: Do you still have family there?
AS: Everyone.
MC: All your family?
AS: All. My mom. My dad. My brothers. Everyone is in Costa Rica. Yes.
MC: Wow. So, can you tell me a little about your childhood? What living there was like for you? Your favorite memories?
AS: It was a beautiful childhood. Again, it’s nature. I love nature. We were able to play all the time outside. You know, play, go to the rivers, with family members play soccer, going to school. It was a very, very healthy childhood. We didn’t have electronics. The first time I had a TV I was twenty years. [laughs]. The same thing for the telephone. We were very close to our families. So, really our friends were our cousins, our uncles, my mom, my dad, my grandfather. People that lived around us.
MC: Right.
AS: It was a safety community. Safe community.
MC: [00:02:41] When did you choose to migrate to the United States?
AS: The first time I decided to come to the United States was in 1998. And the reason I decided to come was because when I was a teenager, I had one of my best friends that she moved to North Carolina with her family. And, we always keep that communication and I always wanted to visit my friend. I always wanted to speak English too. So, that was part of my big dream to come to the United States. So, through the times I kept her friendship, and I went to apply for a visa in 1998. I was rejected. I went to apply in 2000. I did not was approved. And I went to apply again in December 2001. And that was the time that they allowed me to come with a visitor’s visa. And, that’s how I got here.
MC: Why do you think that they rejected you originally? Is that just how that process is?
AS: It was part of the process but it was also, Marisa, because you were coming from a--. I would say honestly, you were coming from a humble family. You do not have land or big accounts or you know. Also, it was my age. I was in a very critical age. They think, she doesn’t have anything, no family, no husband, no kids. She’s going to go and going to stay there. But, I applied three times and I am here.
MC: And, did you come alone originally? Or, can you tell me more about that?
AS: Yes. I flew here in December 23, 2001. And, I got to my friends in Raleigh. I stayed at her house about four months. The intention again, was to visit my friends and also to go, to be able to go to the CPCC to learn English. Somehow, in my mind, I was thinking that I was going to learn English in six months. I don’t know how, but it was like that. And, I was thinking, it was that--. My expectation was that I was going to go back to Costa Rica and continue college over there.
MC: And what were you studying there? I forgot to ask.
AS: Education. Rural education. The reason for me to study that--. It was really--. My main [inaudible] were teachers. And also, I wanted to work on the Indian reservations in Costa Rica. So that was part of why I was interested in that career.
MC: Wow. What was for you, the most difficult part about leaving Costa Rica and your home?
AS: Well, in that time, Marisa, when I left it was not difficult time because I was coming for a few months. I was never thinking or planning that I was going to be here for so many years. And now, almost twenty years. And it took me almost eight years to be able to go back to Costa Rica. So really the difficult time was when I realized my visa expired. I didn’t get a ticket to go back to Costa Rica. And I find myself alone without knowing what to do but with one thing is that I was going to speak English. No matter what. But that was my goal to be here.
MC: Wow. And so, [00:06:26] what was your journey like coming here? By yourself? On a plane trip? Was that your first plane trip? Just tell me more about that experience.
AS: Yeah, it was my first plane trip and it was traumatic [laughs]. I would say it was kind of exciting but also traumatic because again, I didn’t speak the language. I didn’t have any problem on the airplane in Costa Rica, but I have to stop and it was in Houston, Texas. And I had to transfer to another airplane. But I didn’t know how to ask for it. Where to go. The airport was big that I couldn’t see the door. I could not read my ticket. I remember my friend told me that in every counter there was supposed to be people that speak Engl--. Spanish. But the two, three times that I asked nobody speaks Spanish. But in the time that I was asking, one girl from Mexico-, that was my first time that I met someone from Mexico, she heard me. She come to me because she saw that I could not communicate and she asked me where are you going? So, I told her, Charlotte, NC. Raleigh NC. And she told me give me your ticket. So, she saw my ticket and she told me oh you’re really late, you have to run [laughs]. And so, I didn’t know to run where. So, she told me just follow me. And she took me to the other place. The door where I needed to be. And so, it was, the airport was so big and I remember I was running taking upstairs downstairs but I made it. I got to the airplane and I got to Raleigh. It was almost ten o’clock. And I left Costa Rica at six AM in the morning. So, it was yes, a little bit traumatic but it was also an adventure. It was exciting. It was something totally new for me.
MC: And, coming from a rural place in Costa Rica, what surprised you the most when you got to the United States?
AS: How everything was so big. The streets were big. The buildings. Also, I loved that everything was so clean. So many cars. That was the first impression more because I came from a rural area so I was not living in the city. So that was nice. That was something that caught my attention.
MC: Yeah. And before you came to the United States, what did you think it was going to be like before you got here? Did you hear anything on the news or from other people? Did you have this--. What did you imagine it being like?
AS: To be honest Marisa, I did not have any imagination where I was coming. Now, after so many years living here, sometimes I think, how I did not even look at the map? Where was this city I was going to? But again, coming from a small country--beautiful country--but we are a little close minded in that time. I’m talking about in the 90’s. Costa Rica is, it was to believe that it was the best country in Central America. And really, you really did not know much about your surroundings. You know about your country and you study when you go to high school, you go to college, you study about Europe. Not really about Central America or the countries around Costa Rica. So, to be honest, I was kind of ignorant. I don’t know how because I was going to college. You’re supposed to learn all of those things but I think I was. I don’t know, maybe living on the clouds [laughs]. I was a teenager.
MC: Yeah, and so when you got here, [00:10:51] what was it like for you? The years after you got here? What was life like for you? How did you get settled down?
AS: So, at that time, it was when I really started having a difficult time adjusting. So, after four months living with my friend, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. Somehow, they--. So, the conversation was, the intention was that I was going to come and stay for six months. Going to college. Community college. Learn some English and go back to Costa Rica. But when I got here, my friend was different. My friend was not the friend that I used to know when we were fourteen. She was married. She has kids. Her culture also changed. So, we did not feel comfortable with one another. I would say that. So, it was a point where she told me if I was not going to be in her house cleaning, babysitting, I was not welcomed in her house anymore. That was the time when I realized that I was alone.
MC: Wow. And what your next steps after that? If you don’t mind sharing.
AS: So, after that. Because I talked to my friend and explained to her, and she already knew my visa-- it was going to be expired. I didn’t have a ticket ready to go back to Costa Rica. So, she told me I can help you to find an American family that will allow you to stay at her house. And, she told me I will help you to find a job. And you decide whenever you’re ready to go back to Costa Rica. But, I was going to live with a family that I never saw in my life. I didn’t speak English. I didn’t have a car. So, I was just going to live in a house, you know like--.
MC: With strangers.
AS: Yes! With strange people that I cannot even communicate with. So, again, because my dream to learn English, I said it’s okay. So, I went, and I moved with this family that was again, in Raleigh in North Carolina. And I stayed in her house, in their house. They were a married couple. They did not have kids. And honestly, they were very welcoming. And even when we cannot communicate we were writing with a paper on a dictionary anything we want to ask or say, or question, or direction. They were very kind to me and to--. That is the main people that I appreciate every single day for me to be here today because they offered their house to me.
MC: Yeah. Wow. And how old were you then?
AS: I was twenty-six.
MC: Okay.
AS: And so, once I started living with this family I also found a job in a factory. And also, I was able to register at the community college. And in that time the community college offers transportation. So, I was going to the community college from seven thirty to maybe noon. They took me back to the house where I was living and I was going to work at the factor start at three o’clock to midnight. And that was every single day. Sometimes when I went to the CPCC classes, I was so sleepy and tired and I didn’t understand any English yet. So, I did that for maybe four months until really, I started understanding the language a little bit. I stayed with that family for about eight months. Almost a year. And I moved to Charlotte. When I left, when I moved to Charlotte I did not say bye to my friend because by that time they did not speak to me anymore. So, with that, I realized that I had become undocumented. That again, I didn’t have any family and was also poor. And I was in a big country where I was alone. But now, it was up to me to stay here. To go back. To do something or not. And, again, part of my dream to speak English, that passion, somehow helped me or gave me the strength to continue every day here until today that I’m a citizen now.
MC: Yeah. Congratulations. [00:16:06] How did you decide to come to Charlotte? Because you were living in Raleigh, right?
AS: Yeah. When I was in Raleigh, I did communicate with two friends that they were living here in Charlotte. Two sisters. One of them, she was my classmate in high school and the other she was classmate in college. And, they did move to Charlotte around--. One of the sisters was around the same year I moved. And her sister was here a long time ago. And I talked to them and I explained to them, you know, that I was there alone. That I was needing some support. And so, they were kind and nice and also, they know me in Costa Rica. We spend time over there. They went to pick me up and we ended in Charlotte. And at the end we were five Costa Rican girls living together. One from Michigan because she was here a long time ago but she was living in Michigan but she was also moving to Charlotte. Another three ladies from the same city, Heredia, with me. We were three. And another lady from a different city in Costa Rica, and we started living together. We started finding a job, working and going to community college. YMCA. Every ESL classes in the city we were going.
MC: What--. Did you finish the classes that you were taking in Raleigh? Did you get a degree? Or could you tell me.
AS: No, it was English--.
MC: Oh! It was just English.
AS: Basic ESL classes.
MC: English classes. Oh, okay. At the college.
AS: Yeah because that was the only program you can register when you were undocumented.
MC: Okay. Wow. And so, you started taking college classes here in Charlotte?
AS: Now. Yes. Years ago, but in that period of time from the beginning my first five, six years it was just ESL basic classes. Basic ESL classes.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:18] How did you get involved with the Latin American Coalition?
AS: So, when I moved to Charlotte, I mentioned before, I started my life here. I found a job. I continued going to ESL classes. Later in life I married. I got married here and I started knowing the city. By a newspaper, I believe, I knew about the Latin American Coalition and I started attending some of their workshops. And during that time, I was also, I come for the services. You know, I have some questions about some services and the city, and this was the main place to come. So, that was another way that I got connected with the Latin American Coalition. By 2007, around 2008, I was kind of like a volunteer with the Latin American Coalition in different workshops and learning about civic engagement. Learning about community resources in our community. Learning about immigration policies. You know, just learning about the city where you were living now. One of the great ways was to be a volunteer, meeting different people, also continue learning English, about the resources. And it was like that how I became part of the Latin American Coalition at the beginning as a volunteer in 2006, 2007.
MC: And then, how did you get the position as the Immigrant Welcome Center Manger?
AS: So, last year, it was a position opening. It was actually people around the community that contacted me to--. Letting me know about the position. I was looking for a position. I was in transition from a job to another and I applied for this position. The reason I applied for this was because it was very direct to the Latino families, assisting them with their issues, with the challenges. Very similar things I experience in my few years here. So, I wanted t to be a part of something that I really can make a difference in people’s lives. A meaningful job. I do want to be a part of that. And it was how I applied for the position and now I am here. So that was how I start with this position.
MC: Yeah. And [00:21:05] can you tell me more about the role of the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager? What you do every day?
AS: Yes. Here the Immigrant Welcome Center will assist the community in two ways. One of those is crisis. It can be crisis about shelter, bills, rent, food, even clothes. So, we assist families and we coordinate services with crisis assistance and the shelters around the city. Another way we serve the community is connecting them with different resources, assisting them to register their kids for school, to connect them with the health department, with the local clinics, with the lawyers, with the court system. With the services like the YMCA, child care resources. All of those services that are in our community that helps our community to improve their quality of life. But a lot of the times because of the language barrier, because maybe they just moved to the city, or to the state, or they were new arrivals like me. Sometime in the past, they don’t know about these services. So, that’s another way we connect them or we serve them. We also provide basic ESL classes, advance ESL classes--that’s conversational classes, basic computer classes. And a lot of the series of workshops that are needed for them to know more about the resources that integrate with our community.
MC: Wow. Working in your position, [00:23:00] what are the biggest challenges that you see that Latinos in the community struggle with? Or come in to talk more about?
AS: Personally, I believe, Marisa, the biggest struggle for our community is not to speak the language because again, from personal experiences, once you speak the language, you develop your confidence. Because you can communicate, you can ask for what you need. But, not to be able to do that creates a lot of fear, a lot of isolation, anxiety. So, I will say that is the biggest challenge for our community. That, but also immigration, you know. Because there are so many immigration policies at the federal level, at the state level that are continuously affecting the community and not just the Latino community, the community in general. So that you know, you’re working in one area in your life and there is a new policy that is coming and can stop this process for you. So, that is something that is affecting our community constantly.
MC: And so, [00:24:20] can you talk more about the resources the Latin American Coalition provides? The different workshops and the Immigrant Center?
AS: Yeah. We offer…one of the workshops, for example, is divorce and custody workshops. We offer that once a month. That is a collaboration with the North Carolina or Mecklenburg County court system because family law is very expensive so our families sometimes are totally unable to pay for a family lawyer. So, the court offers that workshop once a month. They do it in Spanish. They bring all the forms. They help the individual to complete and helping them to understand how to submit the forms and what is the process, how much maybe it takes. A great workshop. That’s one of the things we do. We also collaborate with the CMPD (Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department). So, the individuals they can have a presentation here about different topics about the community’s safety. So, we create that space. We also bring lawyers from different areas that can assist our family with fraud, scams. Like I said, family law, immigration. Consumer protection. Tax issues. So, we offer those kinds of workshops based on the community needs. I will say that this is some of the workshops we offer. We also offer translation and notary services. We have been-- if they need to send documentation to different organizations that are requesting this, but they do not own a computer or they do not know how to use it, or they don’t have an email. So, this is like a one stop place that they can do everything they need in their own language and we do not do the things for them. We help them. We assist them because we want for them to develop their confidence. To develop their potential. That they can do so many things by themselves and they just need to believe in themselves and you know, follow the process to be able to complete it.
MC: Well thank you. That’s all the questions I have. [00:26:49] Is there anything you’d like to add? Any last comments?
AS: No. Oh well, maybe what I mentioned before about my immigration case. It took me many years. So, it’s going to be nineteen years this December. So, to become a legal resident, to become a citizen, it’s not something that happens in five years. It can take years for an individual. So, to have that support from our community, from our institutions, we’re really helping individuals. No matter which country he is from or which language they speak. Allow them to be a part of the community and they also like today, Marisa. I am a citizen. Yes. And thank God for that. But before a citizen, I was doing everything I can to support, not just my Latino community, but every community member in so many different ways. Because, we do love our community. We do love this country. We do want the best for this country. So, yes. We do speak a different language but our heart is here. Our families are here. And we are not so different than sometimes people think. So thank you for allowing me to share a little bit about my personal story. Thank you for the job that you are doing. I think that will be all.
MC: Alright, thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW]
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Es: Resumen
Alba Sánchez es la Gerente del Centro de Bienvenida al Inmigrante en la Coalición Latinoamericana en Charlotte en el estado de Carolina del Norte. Ella nació en Costa Rico y vivió en un pequeño pueblo llamado San Rafael en el estado de Heredia. Ella emigró a los Estados Unidos cuando tenía veintiséis años. Sánchez explica cómo era San Rafael, refiriendo al paisaje de la región y al tamaño del pueblo. Ella habla sobre su infancia y cómo era la vida para su familia que vive en Costa Rica. Menciona que todos los miembros de su familia todavía residen allí. Sánchez dice que asistió a la Universidad Nacional de La Heredia, una de las mejores escuelas de su estado. Ella describe cómo fue su viaje a los Estados Unidos y los desafíos que enfrentó cuando llegó. Cuenta sobre su motivación por aprender inglés y como le animó empezar una nueva vida en Carolina del Norte. Sánchez luego explica sus razones para mudarse a Charlotte, Carolina del Norte y su trabajo como la Gerente del Centro de Bienvenida al Inmigrante en la Coalición Latinoamericana. Ella dice que primero se involucró con la Coalición como miembro de la comunidad y luego como voluntaria. Describe los servicios que ofrece la Coalición Latinoamericana, como talleres de ciudadanía, clases de inglés como segunda idioma (ESL por sus siglas en inglés), servicios de traducción y otros recursos para la comunidad. Ella habla de los desafíos de la comunidad latina en Charlotte. Sánchez cierra la entrevista explicando su caso de inmigración y manifestando su amor por la comunidad.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Alba Sánchez, 21 mayo 2019, R-0991, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0991 -- Sánchez, Alba.
Description
An account of the resource
Alba Sánchez is the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition in Charlotte, North Carolina. She is originally from Costa Rica from a small town called San Rafael in the province of Heredia. She emigrated to the United States when she was twenty-six years old. In this interview, Sánchez explains what San Rafael was like, referring to the landscape of the region and the size of the town. She discusses her childhood and what life was like for her and her family living in Costa Rica and mentions that all of her family members still reside there. Sánchez mentions attending the University Nacional of La Heredia, one of the top schools in her state. She describes what her journey of coming to the United States was like and the challenges she faced once she arrived. She tells me about her drive and passion to learn English and how that was a major motivational factor for her once she was in North Carolina. Sánchez later explains her reasons for moving to Charlotte, North Carolina, and how she became the Immigrant Welcome Center Manager at the Latin American Coalition. She shares that she first became involved with the Coalition as a community member and later as a volunteer. She describes the multitude of services that the Latin American Coalition offers, such as citizenship workshops, ESL classes, translation services, and other resources for the community. She also touches on the biggest challenges that she sees the Latino community struggles with the most in Charlotte. Sánchez closes the interview by telling me about her immigration case and stating her love for this United States and her community.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-05-21
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/28588">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0991_Audio.mp3
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/2d095ed1a57c6b61f7adc3aa10ad2a4e.mp3
b87ce9a9b5e60089f9d725bc9d2498e2
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/b70e978e35daa6f53f0e7ea6eb2e9d8a.pdf
3622339e16ed1f27a013262842add4ee
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0904
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2018-02-15
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Heine, Rebecca.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Students
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Chapel Hill -- North Carolina -- United States
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Chapel Hill -- Orange County -- North Carolina
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
De Leon, Carolina.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Rebecca Heines, better known as Becca, serves as the mentorship coordinator of North Carolina’s Service Learning Initiative (NC Sli). She also is a bilingual navigator at the University of North Carolina hospital in Chapel Hill. She discusses her experiences as a college student volunteering with organizations targeted towards the Latinx community. Becca discusses how her social networks and study abroad immersion in Latin America inspired her passion to serve. In this interview, she explains how her experience at NC Sli and as a bilingual navigator has shaped her desire to work in the medical field after graduation. She specifically addresses how stress and mental health impact undocumented high school students education. Although Becca speaks English and Spanish, she shares her challenges of communicating in Spanish effectively with patients. Both Rebecca Heines and Carolina De Leon are student interviewers working with the New Roots/Nuevas Raíces Oral Histories as part of APPLES Global Course Guanajuato at UNC Chapel Hill. This interview was conducted as part of this course and is intended to provide background and context about some of the individuals who conduct oral histories for the New Roots collection. Their inclusion in the archive is optional and does not impact their grade. Students also travel to Guanajuato, Mexico over Spring break. Carolina de Leon is also volunteering at El Centro Hispano throughout the semester as part of a service-learning requirement to build relationships with immigrant communities.This interview is the first of 2 interviews. The 2nd interview focuses on Becca’s experiences in Mexico.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Rebecca Heine by Carolina De Leon, 15 February 2018, R-0904, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27584
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Community and social services and programs; Education; Social networks; Language and communication
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Carolina De Leon: I’m here today with Becca. I want to make sure that you consent to me interviewing you today and that you’re okay with this happening.
Becca Heine: Yes, I consent.
CD: Okay Becca, so where are you from?
BH: I was born here at UNC hospitals in Chapel Hill. I lived in Durham from when I was born till the first grade. I moved to Chapel Hill from Durham when I was 7 and then I’ve lived in Chapel Hill ever since. I went to high school here at Chapel Hill High. And now I’m still here at UNC, haven’t quite gotten enough. Just kidding I’m kind of ready to get out. Yeah, so I’m very North Carolina born and raised.
CD: Awesome. How old are you?
BH: I am 21.
CD: What are you studying here at UNC?
BH: Here at UNC, [00:00:15] I’ve bounced all over the place from trying to figure out what I wanted my major to be. I came in very science-minded, still am, and I was absent-mindedly following the biology BS track because science is what I’m good at. I was like “maybe I should just do what I’m good at” and I started to question that. I was like (to myself) “maybe there are other things I like; I just have never tried them.” And so I was like okay, I don’t know what I’m good at. I impulsively saw the application process for the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health. They have a few undergraduate majors through Gillings and the environmental health science one looked pretty cool to me. I’m very interested in how a person – like, how a set environment impacts your health— this is a cool combination of both things I’m interested in, environmental health and inequalities. That would give me a cool way to start taking some of those classes. I did a semester of that program and I really loved it. I decided to go abroad the following year, my junior year spring semester, I went to Ecuador for the semester.
It was the best decision ever but it makes it really hard to fit a—. Essentially I thought I want to go abroad, I’m going to make it happen so I just went abroad. I said I’ll figure out the credits when I get back, which is not the best choice but also if you really want to do something in life, you just got to do it. That was my choice. I did it knowing it was going to be really hard when I came back to finish a 4 semester public health degree in 3 (semesters). Only one other girl in the entire program had gone abroad so I knew it was going to be tough but I can figure it out. I came back and I was hoping that what I wanted to do with my life would all fall into place magically while I was abroad but clearly that didn’t happen. If anything, I had no idea what I wanted to do even more. I came back and I was signing up for classes on Connect Carolina the summer before senior year. I was getting all my classes for that major. The classes were very engineering based so I didn’t really realize until my first semester that I subconsciously taken all the social science classes. I took my hard sciences, physics, chemistries, but all my electives were environmental health and classes that were looking at more social aspects. The undergraduate program is engineering but we take classes with the grad students so it’s very much ( ). As I signed up for all these classes, I was sitting in the living room and I was looking at my Connect Carolina thinking, “I don’t want to be in any of these classes, oh my God”. I was like “Something’s wrong”. Two days before senior year I walked in academic advising saying “I think I made a mistake”. If I change my major to international politics global studies major I can graduate on time. I don’t know how but I’ve already taken a lot of the classes for my general education so it all fit in to that category. My academic advisor said, “You’re right”. So I changed my major two days before senior year. I gave my mom a heart attack but I’ve loved it and honestly this class was one of the main reasons I changed it. I really wanted to take this class and I knew there was no way I could fit it in my schedule if I have my old major. I have my chemistry and biology minors and then I’m majoring in international politics. Everyone always laughs when I say that cause they say, “what are you doing? Your interests are all over the board.”
I’m looking at pre health stuff (classes), it’s very pre-requisite based, so I can major in whatever I want. I’d like to think that medical schools feel that I definitely bring more of an understanding of cultures and issues that others are facing because of my academic background versus someone who is just a biology major. I know a lot of politics surrounding different areas of the world, immigration patterns, and health care policy that many doctors know nothing about. I think that’s important and that’s why I did it. That’s what I’m studying at UNC.
CD: What interested you about NC Sli (Scholars Latinx Initiative) that made you want to join and how did you hear about it?
BH: My pathway to Sli cracks me up how I stumbled upon it and how it became such a huge part of my life. The summer after my freshmen year of college, I did like a summer study abroad program in Santiago Chile. I had a Spanish teacher both semesters freshmen year and she really pushed me to go. She asked me what I was during that summer: “I think this would be great for you to definitely get you ( ) get your Spanish up” the teacher told her.
I mean I’m a freshman, I have no idea what I’m doing this summer. So I said, okay so I did it (went on the trip). On that trip, I met a girl named Nalini. Six UNC students went on the trip and there was Nalini who was nice. She was actually the cousin of my high school friend so we had a little connection before the trip but had never met before. That trip was fun, we ended up becoming Facebook friends. I came back the next semester, fall sophomore year, and I saw Nalini posted something on Facebook about applying to be part of an organization (NC Sli). The deadline was that night at midnight.
Since I had gotten back from Chile, my Spanish was a little bit better. I was looking for ways to get involved in Latinx community. I felt like I can actually do something to contribute. I feel like without the language, it’s hard sometimes. [00:08:29] But it was something I’m passionate about (volunteering) and now I felt like I could actually participate and do things, so this could be cool. I Facebook messaged her and asked her what it was about (NC Sli). She said it was an incredible organization, she had been in it for two years, “you would love it, apply to be a mentor.” So I said okay and I remember staying up late and my roommate was in her bed and I was half asleep filling out this application.
I got accepted to be a mentor. This was before sophomore year. [00:09:15] The way the mentorship works through NC Sli, now we have a different model, but at the time you get sophomores in college paired with sophomores in high school in the Latinx community. We changed our counties some but at the time we had Lee County, Orange County, Chapel Hill/ Carrboro city schools, Durham County, and Chatham County. Lee County is the furthest out; it’s an hour/45 mins away. At the time, the moral of the program was that every other weekend all the students would come to UNC and we would have meetings in the global center. Depending on the grade level, we would work on different things. For example, sophomore year was a lot of identity stuff: who am I, what makes me a part of this community, how do I view myself, how does my community view me,ect. Junior year we would move more into ACT, SAT stuff. Senior year was very college essay based work. The originally platform was created so sophomores in college would be paired with sophomores in high school and you would be their mentors for three years until you both graduate the same year. Which is pretty cool cause in a three year relationship, you can gain someone’s trust if it works out and your compatible in that time. Now it’s (the program) is a little bit different. We make an effort for families to not have to drive so far. For the furthest counties, we do on site events over there (at their campus) where each site meets by themselves for academic events three times a month. Then once a month, they come here (UNC) with their mentors, which is more bonding time. Then they usually get a weekend off.
CD: I want to interrupt you for a second… How do the students sign up, is it voluntary? Is it in a classroom setting that they decide that they want to be a part of this program? How do the students get chosen to be a part of Sli?
BH: It’s an application process. Depending on the counties, we shoot for different amounts of students. We have different strengths of presence in different counties. For example, we might be closer to guidance counselors in certain counties than in others. They (guidance counselors) spread the word. I feel like a lot of it has become word of mouth. The program has grown: for example, it’s like a kid in a grade below will see it and kid in a grade above will post it on social media “Oh, Sli rocks”. The younger kid will be like, “oh that’s cool, how do you get to be in that”? The older kid says “oh well, this month you fill out this application.”
The heads, Ricky and Elaine, the co-directors of Sli, get paid because it’s their job, unlike us (volunteers). They will go to the communities and try to talk to people at school. They go to school nights for Latinx families and they will go to talk to them about the program. They do a lot of work like getting the word out in the communities about the program and that it would be a cool opportunity.
CD: Do you want to share a little about your mentee, not in detail or anything personal but how is that really enriched your experience there?
BH: Something that’s been really interesting for me is that a lot of our— [00:13:34] I’ve been looking at education, the college application process and the education system from a very different perspective than the one that I’ve experienced. This has been very rewarding, specifically looking at some of our students are undocumented and looking at what that process looks like for different students has been so interesting. I don’t know honestly, it alarms me that up until two years ago I didn’t really understand that. Clearly, there were peers that were going through this and I had no idea. I think looking at what that’s for me (college application process), it was always like my dad’s a doctor and my mom’s a nurse practitioner, so you’re (Becca) going to college whether you like it or not. It was never a “what-if”, it was like you’re applying to ten schools and that’s what’s happening. I think that it’s really important to understand what other people are experiencing. For me, that’s been— I’ve learned a lot about what actions need to be taken in different communities and what it’s like to be a child of a parent who hasn’t gone through the educational system here in the states. Especially since it looks very different in every country. It also made me realize that I have an unfair advantage and how reliant I was during the process of college applications. I would ask my mom, “I don’t understand this, can you read over this essay in English?” … or “Mom, I don’t get this form, can you help me do it?” I think that doing financial ( ) the kids all bring in their financial forms and get frustrated trying to fill them out without their parents. That’s a whole side of this I had never experienced. I think that also being paired with a mentee, my mentee and I have become very close for three years. I’m very lucky to say that and I think that I’ve learned a lot about trust during that process. The first year, I feel like our relationship was very surface level: what do you do, what do you like, how are your grades? I don’t want to push you (mentee) too hard because I’m trying to be friends and your mentor. I feel like that was interesting. Junior year came and I went abroad. It was hard to keep up with her while I was in a different country but we still made it work. If something went wrong, she would start coming to me more. I started noticing more and (told myself) “this is cool, it’s a trusting relationship.” She would tell me, “Becca this thing is happening in school, I don’t know how to handle it, what do you think?”… Or “oh this thing happened at home and it stressed me out, I’m having issues with x y z.”
I think that I’ve learned a lot about the value of trust, especially in looking at cultural barriers too. With her family, I’ve seen the large presence of cultural barriers. Over time, we’ve definitely grown a lot more and I think that’s been really cool. She’s awesome, my mentee rocks! Through Sli, I’m a mentor and I’m also on staff. It was hard to do both but I love it so much. Junior year, I was doing communications coordinator working on all the social media.
CD: (Interrupts): Is that volunteer?
BH: Yeah. It’s an extra position.
CD: Like an officer?
BH: Yes exactly. I work with social media. Senior year, I became the Lee county mentorship coordinator, which is what I like the most about Sli. That’s why I wanted to be the mentorship coordinator for my county because I think the mentorship— there’s a lot of different aspects of Sli. There’s the family kind of setting that brings families— the families come with the kids for the events here, which is so important. Honestly, it’s one of the most important parts because they receive instructions in Spanish about what they can be doing to help their kid. A lot of students live at home during college in the U.S. We explain the cultural differences of: this is what it looks like so don’t freak out when your kids think about living somewhere else. We explain things to families so that’s the family aspect. There’s a school aspect, like a crackdown (instruction) of: this is the ACT, this is the SAT, write your essays and figure out your financial aid essays too. There’s mentorship part, which I find the most rewarding. I think that having a mentor who is pursuing their education and you have a good relationship with your mentor, then your encouraged to do the same. I think that’s really important. That’s why I wanted to be involved in (the role of a) mentorship coordinator so I can conduct the pairings. It felt like a dating site. I read all the bios of the mentees and the mentors’ applicants and paired them together. I follow through and if anything comes up with the mentorship, I’m the first mode of contact, so I really love that because it’s my favorite part.
CD: So let’s talk about your other volunteer experience at the UNC hospital as navigator. What interested you about doing that?
BH: Sli actually led me to this because Alejandra (friend) and Nalini worked there. It’s called “Carolina Conexiones”. They were like “Becca you would love it, you need to do it”. This was like junior year, but I was busy at the time so I didn’t know if I would have time for this. When senior year came, I told myself they were right, I needed to do it, I ( ) love it. So I contacted them and asked how to get started and how do I take the language exam. I definitely was interested in working with Spanish speakers in a hospital setting because as I’m interested in medicine. I wasn’t always interested in medicine because some people want to look at all of your bones and I do like the gory stuff — I do I ( ). For me, it’s been more about reaching out to certain communities that need a little extra help. I’ve always thought that was important so for me. This was an introduction to working in Spanish in a hospital setting. I asked myself: “is this something I could see myself doing in the future?” The answer is 100% yes. A big thing that interested me was getting my feet wet: “do I like the hospital setting, do I like running around my feet, do I like talking to a bunch of people, do I like trying to gain their confidence?” Being very personable is so important especially with cultural barriers. I think that has definitely taught me a lot about what I want to pursue in the future. Specifically in communities that I want to work with. It impacts where I want to work and what exactly I want to do. For example, if I did medicine I would definitely want to do family medicine versus specializing in some particular surgery and not really playing a long lasting role in people’s lives. It has taught me a lot about that. I think I talked a little bit about it but I can keep going. At first, I was definitely nervous. I was so scared to talk to anyone thinking that I’m going to say something silly.
CD: [00:23:25] Can you explain a little bit about the set-up, like when you go there, what is expected of you?
BH: Okay, perfect. I show up every day and I walk in to change into my little uniform, my khakis and my polo. I put on this pin that says “Hablo Español”. At first I felt really dorky wearing it but honestly it’s really important because people who walk down the halls sometimes will ask me a question cause they’ll see my button. I think its good that they have us wear those. Every day, the volunteers get the Ipads that have the daily patient reports. They have a print-out sheet that has all the Spanish primary language patients coming in that day and the time they are coming in. So we wait in the waiting room for them to come in and then ask them (a lot of them we recognize off the bat, that’s my favorite part) in Spanish, “we’re bilingual navigators, if you want we can help you go through the receptionist and nurse” and usually they’ll say yes. So then we go in with them and sign consent forms. Sometimes it gets complicated when looking at insurance and things can get hairy with that. I’ve had a lot of different experiences, which I think is so interesting. [00:25:17] I think it’s important to understand where patients are coming from with regards to how they’re actually going to pay for the treatment they are receiving. I’m exposed to the other end of it, being this patient’s advocate, I’m on your team; I’m going to help you get through this.
CD: So like a mini lawyer?
BH: Yeah that’s how I feel sometimes. Making sure they understand everything, make sure they feel confident with themselves and what is going to be happening. A lot of health insurance stuff, if they need special financial help, I’ll show them over to the financial counselors office and ( ) help them. Once they finish up with the receptionist, I take them to the waiting room.
CD: Is this in the ER?
BH: It’s in the children’s specialty clinic. I do spend time in the ER sometimes cause we get Spanish speaking patients who don’t really understand where they need to show up. If they have kids sometimes they show up to the Spanish specialty clinic so then I take them to the ER. I’m all over the place, wherever I’m needed. But it’s cool cause I definitely get to see different sides of the hospital and see different barriers to care which I think is very important. I definitely spend some time down in the ER with patients. Then I chat them up usually in the waiting area, which I really like. I think that’s where you start becoming more comfortable with one another so I like to talk to them and ask where are they from originally and how long have they been living in North Carolina? I ask where did they live cause a lot of people in the specialty clinic travel an hour away twice a week to get very particular treatment for their child. They always ask me where did I learn Spanish. Conversations usually go a particular way. It’s good if they have any particular concerns because once I start talking to them in a more causal way, they’ll bring them up. They’ll mention that they might need help with a financial thing and then I’ll be able to tell them where to go. I think one of the most rewarding parts of working there is the random questions people will ask me once they feel like they can trust me. I’ve had people ask me how do I do the FAFSA for my kid for financial aid in the hospital waiting room. Just different things like that. I’ve had people ask me “hey where will you be in an hour? Can I come find you so you can help me look at this financial document?” I think it’s important for them to feel like they have an advocate in a hospital setting because it’s overwhelming. I really like that part of it. So then the nurse calls us back and I interpret for the nurse, which could some days be just as simple as height and weight. Other days it’s helping the nurse take off a baby’s diaper, doing a bunch of things, having a very depth discussion about the hundred medicines some kid is on in Spanish. It definitely changes a lot. I think that’s another reason it’s really important to build trust and connect with the patient in the waiting room. They feel more comfortable to say that they don’t understand something to me. For example, when we’re in the nurse station and they are confused about medicine or confirming what pharmacy it needs to go. That’s usually a big problem. For example, another thing I think is important is the people who I recognize. During my last shift, I always help this woman and she always get so excited to see me. She always comes in with her 4 kids and she’s holding them all. She didn’t know where to go for her appointment at the hospital so she shows up to the children’s specialty clinic cause she knew I would be there and would help her. So she was like “hi, I don’t know where I need to be, can you help me? And I was like “yeah c’mon!” So I went and got the receptionist to look up where she needed to be. The nurse told me she is not supposed to be here. So I went across the hospital to help her check in somewhere else. They sent me to the basement. I followed her to the basement and at the end she said thank you. I replied, “of course you always know where I am.”
I feel like that sense of knowing there is someone on your team is important. [00:30:18] There are definitely days where I feel like I doubt my Spanish. For example, the other day someone’s pocketknife had fallen out in the waiting room floor and one of the parents tried to tell me in Spanish there’s a knife on the floor, but they used a word for knife I have never heard in my life. I know the word for knife in Spanish but I only know one. Apparently there’s a specific word for pocketknife. He was telling me that word and I said to him, “I don’t understand what you’re saying to me, I’m sorry.” He was pointing at it and (when I realized it was a knife) I said “I’m so sorry, I’ve only heard the word “cuchillo” for knife in my entire life.” He was laughing and it turned out to be fine. Obviously we turned it (knife) into the receptionist. We couldn’t have anything dangerous on the floor of a waiting room. There are definitely times where I’m like “AHHH” (screams) but I think the patients are so appreciative that I’m trying (to speak Spanish) my best.
CD: [00:31:27] How do you think that these two experiences are going to play a role in your future career? I know you mentioned it a little bit before but since you want to go into a particular area of medicine, your experience at Sli, combining the two, how do you think that’s going to impact your future?
BH: In Sli, I’ve learned a lot about education barriers. I think that a lot of education barriers I’ve seen are tied into mental health barriers. Not just with my mentee but with a lot of mentees. They’re going through a lot of stuff at home, a lot of excess stress and anxiety caused by things like DACA, it’s a very stressful time to have DACA. Imagine being a regular high school student and having to think about that, that’s so much! Thirty teen year old me could not have handled that, I promise you that. I think the excess stress— a lot of them have a job. Did I have a job when I was that young? No. I’ve learned a lot about how mental health has a large impact on their schooling. Everyone always say education is the gateway to success and the great equalizer. I think it’s a lot harder to do well in school when there’s a lot of background stuff going on. I think that Sli has definitely taught me a lot about the role that mental health and excess stress can play on the Latinx community, especially in high school. Just in general honestly. I’ve also learned a lot about being exposed to a bunch of families and learning about different things people have gone through. This includes families that are separated and the role that that can play. A lot of domestic violence stuff is interplaying with undocumented status. People have been able to step forward and say something is going on although they are undocumented. I’ve seen cases of that or heard about it. [00:34:24] If I become a medical practitioner or get into family medicine, (who knows what the future holds) I’m going to be a lot more aware of little things that may need to have a follow up question asked. The importance of taking the extra few minutes to get to know someone, where they’re from, what they’re carrying, to try to build that trust, it leads you to give them the care that they truly need. If I went to my pediatrician and as I got to know her better, I tell her what I’m stressed about, I feel like that’s when I speak the same language as my provider. I really do hope that I’ll be able to apply a lot of what I’ve learned in the future.
END OF INTERVIEW
TRANSCRIBED BY CAROLINA DE LEON
6 MARCH 2018
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Estudiantes
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Rebecca Heines, mejor conocida como Becca, sirve como la coordinadora de mentores para La Iniciativa de Servicios de Aprendizaje de Carolina del Norte. A de mas de eso, ella es una traductora bilingüe en el hospital de la Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill. Como estudiante, ella comparte sus experiencias en el voluntariado con organizaciones que se enfocan principalmente en la comunidad Latinx. Su pasión por el servicio a otros nació atraves de sus amistades sociales y sus estudios avanzados en el exterior en Latino America. En esta entrevista, ella explica como sus experiencias en NC Sli y traductora bilingüe le han influenciado el deseo de trabajar en el campo de la medicina cuando se gradué. Ella explica específicamente como la salud mental y el estrés impacta la educación de los estudiantes indocumentados en la preparatoria. Aunque Becca hable inglés y español, ella cuenta sus obstáculos de comunicación en español que tiene con pacientes. Ambas Rebecca Heines y Carolina De Leon son estudiantes trabajando con las historias orales de Nuevas Raíces como parte del curso “APPLES Global Course Guanajuato” en la universidad de Carolina del Norte (UNC Chapel Hill). Esta entrevista fue llevo a cabo como parte del curso para proveer un fondo de los individuos quien trabajan con Nuevas Raíces. La inclusión de sus entrevistas es optavivo, y no es parte de su nota en el curso. Los alumnos en el curso tambien viajen a Guanajuato, México durante marzo para una semana. Carolina De Leon sirve como voluntaria en El Centro Hispano durante el semester como parte de un requisito de aprendizaje-servicio para fortalecer relaciones con comunidades de inmigrantes. Esta entrevista es la primera de dos entrevistas. La segunda se enfoque en las experiencias de Becca en México.
Es: Temas
Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Educación; Redes sociales; Lenguaje y comunicación
Es: Transcripción
Carolina De Leon: I’m here today with Becca. I want to make sure that you consent to me interviewing you today and that you’re okay with this happening.
Becca Heine: Yes, I consent.
CD: Okay Becca, so where are you from?
BH: I was born here at UNC hospitals in Chapel Hill. I lived in Durham from when I was born till the first grade. I moved to Chapel Hill from Durham when I was 7 and then I’ve lived in Chapel Hill ever since. I went to high school here at Chapel Hill High. And now I’m still here at UNC, haven’t quite gotten enough. Just kidding I’m kind of ready to get out. Yeah, so I’m very North Carolina born and raised.
CD: Awesome. How old are you?
BH: I am 21.
CD: What are you studying here at UNC?
BH: Here at UNC, [00:00:15] I’ve bounced all over the place from trying to figure out what I wanted my major to be. I came in very science-minded, still am, and I was absent-mindedly following the biology BS track because science is what I’m good at. I was like “maybe I should just do what I’m good at” and I started to question that. I was like (to myself) “maybe there are other things I like; I just have never tried them.” And so I was like okay, I don’t know what I’m good at. I impulsively saw the application process for the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health. They have a few undergraduate majors through Gillings and the environmental health science one looked pretty cool to me. I’m very interested in how a person – like, how a set environment impacts your health— this is a cool combination of both things I’m interested in, environmental health and inequalities. That would give me a cool way to start taking some of those classes. I did a semester of that program and I really loved it. I decided to go abroad the following year, my junior year spring semester, I went to Ecuador for the semester.
It was the best decision ever but it makes it really hard to fit a—. Essentially I thought I want to go abroad, I’m going to make it happen so I just went abroad. I said I’ll figure out the credits when I get back, which is not the best choice but also if you really want to do something in life, you just got to do it. That was my choice. I did it knowing it was going to be really hard when I came back to finish a 4 semester public health degree in 3 (semesters). Only one other girl in the entire program had gone abroad so I knew it was going to be tough but I can figure it out. I came back and I was hoping that what I wanted to do with my life would all fall into place magically while I was abroad but clearly that didn’t happen. If anything, I had no idea what I wanted to do even more. I came back and I was signing up for classes on Connect Carolina the summer before senior year. I was getting all my classes for that major. The classes were very engineering based so I didn’t really realize until my first semester that I subconsciously taken all the social science classes. I took my hard sciences, physics, chemistries, but all my electives were environmental health and classes that were looking at more social aspects. The undergraduate program is engineering but we take classes with the grad students so it’s very much ( ). As I signed up for all these classes, I was sitting in the living room and I was looking at my Connect Carolina thinking, “I don’t want to be in any of these classes, oh my God”. I was like “Something’s wrong”. Two days before senior year I walked in academic advising saying “I think I made a mistake”. If I change my major to international politics global studies major I can graduate on time. I don’t know how but I’ve already taken a lot of the classes for my general education so it all fit in to that category. My academic advisor said, “You’re right”. So I changed my major two days before senior year. I gave my mom a heart attack but I’ve loved it and honestly this class was one of the main reasons I changed it. I really wanted to take this class and I knew there was no way I could fit it in my schedule if I have my old major. I have my chemistry and biology minors and then I’m majoring in international politics. Everyone always laughs when I say that cause they say, “what are you doing? Your interests are all over the board.”
I’m looking at pre health stuff (classes), it’s very pre-requisite based, so I can major in whatever I want. I’d like to think that medical schools feel that I definitely bring more of an understanding of cultures and issues that others are facing because of my academic background versus someone who is just a biology major. I know a lot of politics surrounding different areas of the world, immigration patterns, and health care policy that many doctors know nothing about. I think that’s important and that’s why I did it. That’s what I’m studying at UNC.
CD: What interested you about NC Sli (Scholars Latinx Initiative) that made you want to join and how did you hear about it?
BH: My pathway to Sli cracks me up how I stumbled upon it and how it became such a huge part of my life. The summer after my freshmen year of college, I did like a summer study abroad program in Santiago Chile. I had a Spanish teacher both semesters freshmen year and she really pushed me to go. She asked me what I was during that summer: “I think this would be great for you to definitely get you ( ) get your Spanish up” the teacher told her.
I mean I’m a freshman, I have no idea what I’m doing this summer. So I said, okay so I did it (went on the trip). On that trip, I met a girl named Nalini. Six UNC students went on the trip and there was Nalini who was nice. She was actually the cousin of my high school friend so we had a little connection before the trip but had never met before. That trip was fun, we ended up becoming Facebook friends. I came back the next semester, fall sophomore year, and I saw Nalini posted something on Facebook about applying to be part of an organization (NC Sli). The deadline was that night at midnight.
Since I had gotten back from Chile, my Spanish was a little bit better. I was looking for ways to get involved in Latinx community. I felt like I can actually do something to contribute. I feel like without the language, it’s hard sometimes. [00:08:29] But it was something I’m passionate about (volunteering) and now I felt like I could actually participate and do things, so this could be cool. I Facebook messaged her and asked her what it was about (NC Sli). She said it was an incredible organization, she had been in it for two years, “you would love it, apply to be a mentor.” So I said okay and I remember staying up late and my roommate was in her bed and I was half asleep filling out this application.
I got accepted to be a mentor. This was before sophomore year. [00:09:15] The way the mentorship works through NC Sli, now we have a different model, but at the time you get sophomores in college paired with sophomores in high school in the Latinx community. We changed our counties some but at the time we had Lee County, Orange County, Chapel Hill/ Carrboro city schools, Durham County, and Chatham County. Lee County is the furthest out; it’s an hour/45 mins away. At the time, the moral of the program was that every other weekend all the students would come to UNC and we would have meetings in the global center. Depending on the grade level, we would work on different things. For example, sophomore year was a lot of identity stuff: who am I, what makes me a part of this community, how do I view myself, how does my community view me,ect. Junior year we would move more into ACT, SAT stuff. Senior year was very college essay based work. The originally platform was created so sophomores in college would be paired with sophomores in high school and you would be their mentors for three years until you both graduate the same year. Which is pretty cool cause in a three year relationship, you can gain someone’s trust if it works out and your compatible in that time. Now it’s (the program) is a little bit different. We make an effort for families to not have to drive so far. For the furthest counties, we do on site events over there (at their campus) where each site meets by themselves for academic events three times a month. Then once a month, they come here (UNC) with their mentors, which is more bonding time. Then they usually get a weekend off.
CD: I want to interrupt you for a second… How do the students sign up, is it voluntary? Is it in a classroom setting that they decide that they want to be a part of this program? How do the students get chosen to be a part of Sli?
BH: It’s an application process. Depending on the counties, we shoot for different amounts of students. We have different strengths of presence in different counties. For example, we might be closer to guidance counselors in certain counties than in others. They (guidance counselors) spread the word. I feel like a lot of it has become word of mouth. The program has grown: for example, it’s like a kid in a grade below will see it and kid in a grade above will post it on social media “Oh, Sli rocks”. The younger kid will be like, “oh that’s cool, how do you get to be in that”? The older kid says “oh well, this month you fill out this application.”
The heads, Ricky and Elaine, the co-directors of Sli, get paid because it’s their job, unlike us (volunteers). They will go to the communities and try to talk to people at school. They go to school nights for Latinx families and they will go to talk to them about the program. They do a lot of work like getting the word out in the communities about the program and that it would be a cool opportunity.
CD: Do you want to share a little about your mentee, not in detail or anything personal but how is that really enriched your experience there?
BH: Something that’s been really interesting for me is that a lot of our— [00:13:34] I’ve been looking at education, the college application process and the education system from a very different perspective than the one that I’ve experienced. This has been very rewarding, specifically looking at some of our students are undocumented and looking at what that process looks like for different students has been so interesting. I don’t know honestly, it alarms me that up until two years ago I didn’t really understand that. Clearly, there were peers that were going through this and I had no idea. I think looking at what that’s for me (college application process), it was always like my dad’s a doctor and my mom’s a nurse practitioner, so you’re (Becca) going to college whether you like it or not. It was never a “what-if”, it was like you’re applying to ten schools and that’s what’s happening. I think that it’s really important to understand what other people are experiencing. For me, that’s been— I’ve learned a lot about what actions need to be taken in different communities and what it’s like to be a child of a parent who hasn’t gone through the educational system here in the states. Especially since it looks very different in every country. It also made me realize that I have an unfair advantage and how reliant I was during the process of college applications. I would ask my mom, “I don’t understand this, can you read over this essay in English?” … or “Mom, I don’t get this form, can you help me do it?” I think that doing financial ( ) the kids all bring in their financial forms and get frustrated trying to fill them out without their parents. That’s a whole side of this I had never experienced. I think that also being paired with a mentee, my mentee and I have become very close for three years. I’m very lucky to say that and I think that I’ve learned a lot about trust during that process. The first year, I feel like our relationship was very surface level: what do you do, what do you like, how are your grades? I don’t want to push you (mentee) too hard because I’m trying to be friends and your mentor. I feel like that was interesting. Junior year came and I went abroad. It was hard to keep up with her while I was in a different country but we still made it work. If something went wrong, she would start coming to me more. I started noticing more and (told myself) “this is cool, it’s a trusting relationship.” She would tell me, “Becca this thing is happening in school, I don’t know how to handle it, what do you think?”… Or “oh this thing happened at home and it stressed me out, I’m having issues with x y z.”
I think that I’ve learned a lot about the value of trust, especially in looking at cultural barriers too. With her family, I’ve seen the large presence of cultural barriers. Over time, we’ve definitely grown a lot more and I think that’s been really cool. She’s awesome, my mentee rocks! Through Sli, I’m a mentor and I’m also on staff. It was hard to do both but I love it so much. Junior year, I was doing communications coordinator working on all the social media.
CD: (Interrupts): Is that volunteer?
BH: Yeah. It’s an extra position.
CD: Like an officer?
BH: Yes exactly. I work with social media. Senior year, I became the Lee county mentorship coordinator, which is what I like the most about Sli. That’s why I wanted to be the mentorship coordinator for my county because I think the mentorship— there’s a lot of different aspects of Sli. There’s the family kind of setting that brings families— the families come with the kids for the events here, which is so important. Honestly, it’s one of the most important parts because they receive instructions in Spanish about what they can be doing to help their kid. A lot of students live at home during college in the U.S. We explain the cultural differences of: this is what it looks like so don’t freak out when your kids think about living somewhere else. We explain things to families so that’s the family aspect. There’s a school aspect, like a crackdown (instruction) of: this is the ACT, this is the SAT, write your essays and figure out your financial aid essays too. There’s mentorship part, which I find the most rewarding. I think that having a mentor who is pursuing their education and you have a good relationship with your mentor, then your encouraged to do the same. I think that’s really important. That’s why I wanted to be involved in (the role of a) mentorship coordinator so I can conduct the pairings. It felt like a dating site. I read all the bios of the mentees and the mentors’ applicants and paired them together. I follow through and if anything comes up with the mentorship, I’m the first mode of contact, so I really love that because it’s my favorite part.
CD: So let’s talk about your other volunteer experience at the UNC hospital as navigator. What interested you about doing that?
BH: Sli actually led me to this because Alejandra (friend) and Nalini worked there. It’s called “Carolina Conexiones”. They were like “Becca you would love it, you need to do it”. This was like junior year, but I was busy at the time so I didn’t know if I would have time for this. When senior year came, I told myself they were right, I needed to do it, I ( ) love it. So I contacted them and asked how to get started and how do I take the language exam. I definitely was interested in working with Spanish speakers in a hospital setting because as I’m interested in medicine. I wasn’t always interested in medicine because some people want to look at all of your bones and I do like the gory stuff — I do I ( ). For me, it’s been more about reaching out to certain communities that need a little extra help. I’ve always thought that was important so for me. This was an introduction to working in Spanish in a hospital setting. I asked myself: “is this something I could see myself doing in the future?” The answer is 100% yes. A big thing that interested me was getting my feet wet: “do I like the hospital setting, do I like running around my feet, do I like talking to a bunch of people, do I like trying to gain their confidence?” Being very personable is so important especially with cultural barriers. I think that has definitely taught me a lot about what I want to pursue in the future. Specifically in communities that I want to work with. It impacts where I want to work and what exactly I want to do. For example, if I did medicine I would definitely want to do family medicine versus specializing in some particular surgery and not really playing a long lasting role in people’s lives. It has taught me a lot about that. I think I talked a little bit about it but I can keep going. At first, I was definitely nervous. I was so scared to talk to anyone thinking that I’m going to say something silly.
CD: [00:23:25] Can you explain a little bit about the set-up, like when you go there, what is expected of you?
BH: Okay, perfect. I show up every day and I walk in to change into my little uniform, my khakis and my polo. I put on this pin that says “Hablo Español”. At first I felt really dorky wearing it but honestly it’s really important because people who walk down the halls sometimes will ask me a question cause they’ll see my button. I think its good that they have us wear those. Every day, the volunteers get the Ipads that have the daily patient reports. They have a print-out sheet that has all the Spanish primary language patients coming in that day and the time they are coming in. So we wait in the waiting room for them to come in and then ask them (a lot of them we recognize off the bat, that’s my favorite part) in Spanish, “we’re bilingual navigators, if you want we can help you go through the receptionist and nurse” and usually they’ll say yes. So then we go in with them and sign consent forms. Sometimes it gets complicated when looking at insurance and things can get hairy with that. I’ve had a lot of different experiences, which I think is so interesting. [00:25:17] I think it’s important to understand where patients are coming from with regards to how they’re actually going to pay for the treatment they are receiving. I’m exposed to the other end of it, being this patient’s advocate, I’m on your team; I’m going to help you get through this.
CD: So like a mini lawyer?
BH: Yeah that’s how I feel sometimes. Making sure they understand everything, make sure they feel confident with themselves and what is going to be happening. A lot of health insurance stuff, if they need special financial help, I’ll show them over to the financial counselors office and ( ) help them. Once they finish up with the receptionist, I take them to the waiting room.
CD: Is this in the ER?
BH: It’s in the children’s specialty clinic. I do spend time in the ER sometimes cause we get Spanish speaking patients who don’t really understand where they need to show up. If they have kids sometimes they show up to the Spanish specialty clinic so then I take them to the ER. I’m all over the place, wherever I’m needed. But it’s cool cause I definitely get to see different sides of the hospital and see different barriers to care which I think is very important. I definitely spend some time down in the ER with patients. Then I chat them up usually in the waiting area, which I really like. I think that’s where you start becoming more comfortable with one another so I like to talk to them and ask where are they from originally and how long have they been living in North Carolina? I ask where did they live cause a lot of people in the specialty clinic travel an hour away twice a week to get very particular treatment for their child. They always ask me where did I learn Spanish. Conversations usually go a particular way. It’s good if they have any particular concerns because once I start talking to them in a more causal way, they’ll bring them up. They’ll mention that they might need help with a financial thing and then I’ll be able to tell them where to go. I think one of the most rewarding parts of working there is the random questions people will ask me once they feel like they can trust me. I’ve had people ask me how do I do the FAFSA for my kid for financial aid in the hospital waiting room. Just different things like that. I’ve had people ask me “hey where will you be in an hour? Can I come find you so you can help me look at this financial document?” I think it’s important for them to feel like they have an advocate in a hospital setting because it’s overwhelming. I really like that part of it. So then the nurse calls us back and I interpret for the nurse, which could some days be just as simple as height and weight. Other days it’s helping the nurse take off a baby’s diaper, doing a bunch of things, having a very depth discussion about the hundred medicines some kid is on in Spanish. It definitely changes a lot. I think that’s another reason it’s really important to build trust and connect with the patient in the waiting room. They feel more comfortable to say that they don’t understand something to me. For example, when we’re in the nurse station and they are confused about medicine or confirming what pharmacy it needs to go. That’s usually a big problem. For example, another thing I think is important is the people who I recognize. During my last shift, I always help this woman and she always get so excited to see me. She always comes in with her 4 kids and she’s holding them all. She didn’t know where to go for her appointment at the hospital so she shows up to the children’s specialty clinic cause she knew I would be there and would help her. So she was like “hi, I don’t know where I need to be, can you help me? And I was like “yeah c’mon!” So I went and got the receptionist to look up where she needed to be. The nurse told me she is not supposed to be here. So I went across the hospital to help her check in somewhere else. They sent me to the basement. I followed her to the basement and at the end she said thank you. I replied, “of course you always know where I am.”
I feel like that sense of knowing there is someone on your team is important. [00:30:18] There are definitely days where I feel like I doubt my Spanish. For example, the other day someone’s pocketknife had fallen out in the waiting room floor and one of the parents tried to tell me in Spanish there’s a knife on the floor, but they used a word for knife I have never heard in my life. I know the word for knife in Spanish but I only know one. Apparently there’s a specific word for pocketknife. He was telling me that word and I said to him, “I don’t understand what you’re saying to me, I’m sorry.” He was pointing at it and (when I realized it was a knife) I said “I’m so sorry, I’ve only heard the word “cuchillo” for knife in my entire life.” He was laughing and it turned out to be fine. Obviously we turned it (knife) into the receptionist. We couldn’t have anything dangerous on the floor of a waiting room. There are definitely times where I’m like “AHHH” (screams) but I think the patients are so appreciative that I’m trying (to speak Spanish) my best.
CD: [00:31:27] How do you think that these two experiences are going to play a role in your future career? I know you mentioned it a little bit before but since you want to go into a particular area of medicine, your experience at Sli, combining the two, how do you think that’s going to impact your future?
BH: In Sli, I’ve learned a lot about education barriers. I think that a lot of education barriers I’ve seen are tied into mental health barriers. Not just with my mentee but with a lot of mentees. They’re going through a lot of stuff at home, a lot of excess stress and anxiety caused by things like DACA, it’s a very stressful time to have DACA. Imagine being a regular high school student and having to think about that, that’s so much! Thirty teen year old me could not have handled that, I promise you that. I think the excess stress— a lot of them have a job. Did I have a job when I was that young? No. I’ve learned a lot about how mental health has a large impact on their schooling. Everyone always say education is the gateway to success and the great equalizer. I think it’s a lot harder to do well in school when there’s a lot of background stuff going on. I think that Sli has definitely taught me a lot about the role that mental health and excess stress can play on the Latinx community, especially in high school. Just in general honestly. I’ve also learned a lot about being exposed to a bunch of families and learning about different things people have gone through. This includes families that are separated and the role that that can play. A lot of domestic violence stuff is interplaying with undocumented status. People have been able to step forward and say something is going on although they are undocumented. I’ve seen cases of that or heard about it. [00:34:24] If I become a medical practitioner or get into family medicine, (who knows what the future holds) I’m going to be a lot more aware of little things that may need to have a follow up question asked. The importance of taking the extra few minutes to get to know someone, where they’re from, what they’re carrying, to try to build that trust, it leads you to give them the care that they truly need. If I went to my pediatrician and as I got to know her better, I tell her what I’m stressed about, I feel like that’s when I speak the same language as my provider. I really do hope that I’ll be able to apply a lot of what I’ve learned in the future.
END OF INTERVIEW
TRANSCRIBED BY CAROLINA DE LEON
6 MARCH 2018
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
Es: Citación
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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R-0904 -- Heine, Rebecca.
Description
An account of the resource
Rebecca Heines, better known as Becca, serves as the mentorship coordinator of North Carolina’s Service Learning Initiative (NC Sli). She also is a bilingual navigator at the University of North Carolina hospital in Chapel Hill. She discusses her experiences as a college student volunteering with organizations targeted towards the Latinx community. Becca discusses how her social networks and study abroad immersion in Latin America inspired her passion to serve. In this interview, she explains how her experience at NC Sli and as a bilingual navigator has shaped her desire to work in the medical field after graduation. She specifically addresses how stress and mental health impact undocumented high school students education. Although Becca speaks English and Spanish, she shares her challenges of communicating in Spanish effectively with patients. Both Rebecca Heines and Carolina De Leon are student interviewers working with the New Roots/Nuevas Raíces Oral Histories as part of APPLES Global Course Guanajuato at UNC Chapel Hill. This interview was conducted as part of this course and is intended to provide background and context about some of the individuals who conduct oral histories for the New Roots collection. Their inclusion in the archive is optional and does not impact their grade. Students also travel to Guanajuato, Mexico over Spring break. Carolina de Leon is also volunteering at El Centro Hispano throughout the semester as part of a service-learning requirement to build relationships with immigrant communities.This interview is the first of 2 interviews. The 2nd interview focuses on Becca’s experiences in Mexico.
Source
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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
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2018-02-15
Format
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R0904_Audio.mp3
Publisher
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<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27584">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/de45b966d5c8e9d3c06cbbc84a5d1bca.mp3
125cd6036bfe5d9d165a023b01171225
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/29368126802b3097566f19692c974d42.pdf
e2901e437387d9321387fb90463f6952
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0901
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
2018-04-05
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Fernandez, Eduardo.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Students
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Siler City -- Chatham County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Chapel Hill -- Orange County -- North Carolina
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Heine, Rebecca.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Eddy Fernandez is a 3rd-year student at UNC-Chapel Hill who discusses his family’s experience immigrating to Siler City, North Carolina from Texas for employment in the Townsend Chicken Processing Plant. He also discusses his experience growing up in Siler City, a rural area that was primarily Latinx/Latino/Latina. Fernandez explains the way in which the large presence of mental health issues related to migration that he witnessed among his friends growing up has impacted his career choice in the field of public health. Fernandez discusses how he conducted a research project in 2017 on youth mental health as part of the Building Integrated Communities Initiative with the Town of Siler City.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Eduardo Fernandez by Rebecca Heine, 05 April 2018, R-0901, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27563
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Racism and discrimination; Health; Social Networks; Higher Education; Receiving Communities
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Rebecca Heine: Hi this is Rebecca here interviewing Eddy Fernandez. Eddy do you consent to this interview?
Eddy Fernandez: Yes.
RH: Cool, let’s get started by you telling me about your year in school and what you’re studying.
EF: Yeah, so I’m a Junior so Class of 2019 and I’m studying Health Policy and Management in the School of Public Health here at UNC.
RH: [00:00:40] Okay, what do you see yourself doing career—wise in the future?
EF: That’s a very good question. I would say actually that I have a fairly decent idea of what I want to do. I eventually want to go either into research or into the health policy world and so kind of focusing on a career that would let me work on addressing health disparities and working on health systems either in the state or federal level. What that looks like exactly? I don’t know. It could be like working for a federal agency or it could be working for a state agency or it could be working at a research place like UNC and putting out more information about where the issues are in health disparities, what’s causing them and things like that and possible ways to address them. That’s kind of a broad overview of what I want to do and that’s probably all I can do honestly— broad.
RH: I gotcha. Have you enjoyed your first year through the Gillings program?
EF: Yeah oh my gosh I love Gillings so much. It’s a bit of a pain sometimes I will admit that. But this past week actually I had six or seven things due this one week actually because my professors decided to jam it all before Easter apparently. So it’s been really good because it’s very focused on health and health care and what’s it’s like here in the U.S. and kind of understanding how does the Federal Government and State Government interact to provide health insurance to people and how that affects their health and what other determinants affect whether or not someone’s living a health life like housing, income, things like that. So it’s been a really interesting year so far and I’ve learned a lot. It’s definitely— I don’t want to say changed my perspective, but it’s influenced how I think about health and how I perceive what is healthy, who starts off as healthy, and kind of thinking well what factors go into that.
RH: [00:02:54] Cool, so I was hoping you would get into describing your family life and your family’s immigration experience.
EF: Yeah, so I am an only child, which is very rare for Latinos, but— let’s see. I’m from Siler City first of all. I have half of my family here in Siler City. By here in Siler City I mean back home. Not like here in Chapel Hill. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. The other half are in Texas, Southern Texas, in a place called Alamo, which is a border city that’s literally, I think twenty minutes from Reynosa, which is in Tamaulipas the state. So, I lived at home with my mom and my stepdad. They— I’m trying to think of where to go from here. So they met each other when I think I was seven or eight so they’ve been together for more than half my life and so I’ve known him for a very long time. And then my other family who’s in North Carolina— it’s one of my aunts her name is Esperanza and she has also lived there her entire life and then my other aunt who lives in— not in Siler City necessarily, but she lives in High Point— they used to live in Siler City and then they moved to Chicago, and then they moved to Miami, and then they moved back to Siler City and then moved back to High Point. So they have been there in North Carolina for a good while, but not too long. And so the way that they immigrated here is really interesting actually. Originally from my family a lot of them are actually citizens so the only people that aren’t citizens are the three oldest in my family which is one of my aunts that lives in Texas, one of my uncles that lives in Texas and then my Mom. All three of them have their residency. So the way that they moved is that originally they lived in Alamo, they lived in McAllen and so they would go back and forth between Texas and Reynosa, which is again like twenty minutes from there and then eventually one of my aunts— the oldest one actually— moved to Siler City for— I actually don’t remember the reason why. But she eventually kind of brought over another aunt and my Mom and then ended up bringing one of my uncles over and then my aunt that had moved there originally decided that she didn’t like living in North Carolina so then she moved back to Texas. And then my uncle moved back to Texas and then another aunt came up to North Carolina so it was just a huge swapping motion and what not, but the reason that they came up was because of work and because of a poultry plant that was in Siler City. It was Townsend. And so they ended up just liking it here and so they decided to stay in North Carolina and Siler City specifically and they just kind of made their life here. My Mom worked for a little bit at a fabrics place and then she switched over to this manufacturing company that’s in Siler City that manufactures different plastics for different parts and then she’s been there for I don’t even know like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years around there. Definitely like most of my life. Yeah, the poultry plant had closed down a while ago and both of my aunts ended up quitting before they closed. They did work there for a little while and that’s kind of what brought them to Siler City. So it’s just a lot of crossing over and traveling back and forth between these random family ties that you wouldn’t have guessed that they moved here to Siler City for something, but they did.
RH: What does your stepdad do?
EF: Yeah, so my stepdad, he works in a warehouse and he kind of just keeps up that warehouse and he establishes and kind of physically helps build office spaces. And he does that in Raleigh and Durham and for the office spaces it kind of depends on where they have him go it could be in Raleigh, Durham, he could be in Charlotte one day. A lot of traveling for him.
RH: [00:07:50] So I was hoping you would discuss you experience growing up in rural North Carolina and your and your family’s experience being part of the greater Latinx community there.
EF: Yeah, so could you repeat the question again.
RH: So, what was your experience growing up in rural North Carolina and being part of the greater Latinx community there.
EF: So I think in my head I grew up in rural North Carolina, but I don’t think I grew up in a traditional thinking of rural North Carolina because Siler City is like sixty or seventy percent Latinx. And so I think that I did grow up in a very rural area, but not in traditional rural areas like Ramseur, Asheboro or things like that, something with a higher population of white Americans. So I think growing up specifically in Siler City, which is coming next but I’ll talk about the rural part first, is interesting because there is this aspect where it’s kind of fun to poke at rural North Carolina and then being part of rural North Carolina, but you definitely see the kind of— and I definitely have realized it more that I’ve been here and I’ve kind of learned about the rural urban divide. But kind of seeing the lack of opportunities in rural areas and seeing the way that rural communities are set up— not necessarily to fail, but there’s scarce opportunity for people to be like socially mobile. I can’t think of that word now, you know what I’m talking about? Okay. Yeah and so of course me and my friends would always pick at ‘Oh let’s go hang out at the Walmart that’s our mall’ you know whatever and we’d have to drive thirty or forty minutes to get anywhere for fun so me and my friends did a lot of bonfires and we just hung out at the McDonalds and just did random stuff at each other’s houses. But kind of seeing— moving away from Siler City and getting an outside perspective of the short time that I’ve been here it’s been really interesting because I would say that from my high school not that many pursued higher education and I would say that’s because there just wasn’t much to do in Siler City. There just was not much educational opportunities slash ways to stay involved slash ways to also just grow as a person because you’re very much exposed to the same thing every single day. So I mean like— some people enjoy that. They like living in rural areas because it’s their thing and some people it’s like there’s nothing to do here so let’s go do xyz instead. And xyz isn’t necessarily good for the most part. So seeing that and also when you intersect the fact that the majority of the people there are Latinx and then you think about the history of Siler City. The history of Siler City is very interesting when you see the shift in the influx of Latinxes coming in in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s and you see how KKK rallies were hosted in Siler City at one point and the grand dragon was there for a little bit. And it’s funny because I was actually talking to my Mom about this a while ago and— well to give a little bit of context I’m very much involved in the Campus Y and I do a lot of the protesting and things like that and I was talking to my Mom one day and I like straight up asked her, I was like ‘Have you every been to a protest?’ And she was like, ‘Yeah I think I went to one in the early 2000’s that was against the KKK’ and I was like ‘what Mom?’ I asked her so much about it I don’t know and the history of Siler City is really interesting because it wasn’t interracial until this influx has happened and it wasn’t always a racially accepting town and I still would say it’s not. I mean, it’s made a lot of progress for sure, but there’s still a lot of issues in Siler City regarding how they treat Latinxes and so when you intersect that with the issues that a lot of Latinx people face it gets even more stark for the people that live in these rural areas like you have to worry about like okay where am I going to work, does that place allow me to work without papers, what about English and what about accessing services and what happens if I can’t pay my bills and who do I go to for that and things like that. So I think growing up in Siler City and seeing kind of the effects of racial disparities and income disparities and things like that and seeing the rural urban divide while I’ve been here has been a big push on why I’m interested in health disparities because literally everything that a person does is affecting their health and affecting how they live and what not so I think that’s why I’m very interested in health disparities and I think that’s why I pursued health policy and management. And I think that’s why I’m going to pursue research or health policy when I graduate.
RH: So when you said that influx of Latinx coming into Siler City, was that for the poultry plant?
EF: Yeah, so a lot of it was for the poultry plant that was there. It was Townsend and they would hire— I don’t know if they would actually use— I can’t remember the name of the Visa now, but it was the work Visa thing and I don’t know if they actually hired people from that or if they just had a few people that worked there that were Latinx and just kind of brought their families over just by word of mouth, but a lot of that was because of the poultry plant. And out right now there’s – well while it closed down two or three years ago there’s actually another one that’s opening up next yearish so it will be interesting to see how that affects migration patterns again in Siler City.
RH: Interesting. So you mentioned that you think that Siler City has a long way to go in terms of definitely having some issues of discrimination against the Latinx community, so I guess I was hoping you would talk a little more about instances of that or talk a little bit more about why you specifically think that Siler City needs to improve in certain aspects.
EF: I don’t know, I think a lot of it has to do with the historical and what’s happened already and the lack of trust that there is between the Latinx population in Siler city and the greater government in general whether it be local, police force, state government, things like that. But specifically instances— my parents have said so and I’ve kind of felt the same way is whenever police kind of follow and pull over people and they’ll set up checkpoints in very specific areas and areas that they know are home to a large population of the Latino population in Siler City. They’ll put them in strategic areas at strategic times like when people are going to work, coming home from work, when people are dropping their kids at school, so it’s very— it’s the worst. I was going to use a different word, but I probably shouldn’t. But they set them up in these areas— and they’ve been better about not setting up as many checkpoints in the past year or two and I think— I was an intern at the health department last summer and so I was talking a bit to the people there and they were telling me about how the chief had taken a trip to— I can’t remember where in Mexico and just kind of learned about migrants and their experiences and why they come to the US and specifically Siler City because a lot of the migrants are from— I can’t remember if there are a lot from Guadalajara or somewhere else I can’t remember, but just kind of learning what larger forces are bringing them in. I want to say that trip really influenced him in that he hasn’t put check points in as many areas and granted they’re still going to have to put some checkpoints because it’s what they do, but not as heavy in very specific areas and I don’t know it’s been interesting to see how that change has happened and see how my family perceives it because they’ve definitely noticed it too. They remember six or seven years ago that they’d put a checkpoint every other week, like every month at least and it’s been a while since I’ve seen one at least and it’s been a while since they’ve seen one. It’s funny— I think I’ve noticed it more that I’ve started driving like when I was seventeen or eighteen when I actually started driving a lot on my own, but whenever I’d see a checkpoint I’d immediately freeze up and get really nervous and just being like ‘okay why am I nervous, why am I doing this, why am I having this reaction.’ And I think a lot of it stems from the way that I saw my parents perceive checkpoints and the way that my family perceived checkpoints and just kind of attributing that to ‘Okay, something bad is going to happen as soon as I walk in here and have my license read.’
RH: Okay, interesting. So you started talking about this, but how to you believe that your experience has impacted your research and career path. You’ve gotten into this a little bit.
EF: Yes. Like I said, going back to how health isn’t just receiving medical care and it’s not just the process of going to the doctor or getting a check up and what not. It’s important to do that, but that’s only twenty percent of what contributes to health. Everything else is up to the social determinants of health. What’s your housing like? What’s your income like? What kind of access to food do you have? Are they healthy foods? What about access to gyms and things like that. So, understanding okay there are a ton of different things that influence health and I think that’s a big reason why I want to pursue research and policy in that. It’s like we’re not going to— okay so a quick background about this— so the U.S. spends the most on healthcare, but we have the worst health outcomes compared to any other developed country. A lot of that is because we don’t take into account the effects of housing and income and things like that and racial disparities and how that affects people’s social mobility and how that affects health. I think that for me I’m extremely interested in social determinants, but I’m also really interested in mental health and how social determinants affect mental health. So I think that as soon as I heard that Siler city had gotten the BIC grant thing I went up to Hannah and Jessica Lee and said ‘Hey is there anyway that I can help with this. This is in my home town and I think it would be really great to work on this’ and they were like ‘yeah sure that would be great if you could’ and they were very open to me just kind of doing my own project and running with it. So I was like well let me see how mental health is perceived slash what kind of services are available for youth in Siler city and so— what was the question again? I want to make sure that I’m not straying.
RH: [00:21:18] How do you believe that your experience has impacted your research and career path. And then if you want, I mean the next question is discuss your research with me so if you want to start getting into that because I know they’re interrelated then go for it.
EF: Yeah, I’ll go a little bit and do the reasons why.
RH: Okay, perfect.
EF: I think the reasons why are a lot because of what I experienced in high school and seeing a lot of different friends dealing with mental health issues and a lot of them not pursuing help until after they graduated or have yet to pursue any help. I have a couple friends who went through major episodes of depression and major episodes of mania and a lot of people who self—harmed and things like that so I think seeing that and seeing a lot of it really was the reason why I wanted to do the research and kind of understanding okay what kind of resources are available there, what is the gap. What are the reasons this is happening first of all and what can be done to address these things and so for me I want to I guess get to the root of it, but understand what can be done from a policy perspective and what are things that local government can do. And that’s the whole thing about BIC, it’s leveraging local governments to impact local communities and also better integrating these migrant populations into local government and mental health is a part of that so I wanted to explore that in the research I did and I guess I’ll go ahead and start talking about the research itself.
RH: Go for it!
EF: So the way that it worked was that I interviewed school counselors and kind of got their perspective on okay what kind of things are offered within the school system and what kind of things are you seeing most of and how are people coming to you, what are they telling you and things like that. And so at least from what I’ve gathered there’s a good system in place in regards to people who can go to them and get the services that they need, but I think that from the research that I saw and what I gathered not many people are using them. They are being used pretty frequently, but not to the extent to which I feel like they should be. They have these in—school counselors, and then they have in—school therapists, and in school therapy, and then they do referrals and I don’t know they have a lot of different mechanisms from which they can refer people to if they should need do and so I think that’s really good, but – and this is the case for almost all schools really— counseling and support services are severely under—resourced and they don’t have the necessary tools to deal with these pressing issues and so I found out that there are these services that are available and a lot of the people that do come in tend to be kind of really worried about what’s going to happen post high—school amongst the high schoolers— I guess I’ll go through for every grade—ish. And so in high schoolers people are generally worried about what’s going to happen post grad like where am I going to go, what am I going to do, what kind of things are available to me. Because a lot of the people in Siler city, at least it was previously— I actually don’t know about it now because I’ll talk about it with elementary schoolers in a bit, but a lot of them are undocumented so they’re just worried about what kind of things are open to me, what kind of things post grad so they get into this kind of mindset of like there’s nothing out there for me and in some instances it’s validated. There aren’t too many things that are out there for undocumented people. There’s limited resources and it’s a very stark reality and it sucks and that’s one of the reasons why a lot of people go to like that.
And another thing is also just the general— well general’s not the right word, but dealing with self—esteem issues and things that every high schooler goes through and then having that further amplified through racial inequalities and things like that and it’s funny because another part of the research was doing a focus group with youth and I was able to do a little session with them about that and something that they had said that I was not prepared for was the effects of this past election on how they’re treated amongst their white peers and the specific quote that I was thinking of was that there’s no filter anymore. People will just go through the school yelling random things and yell racial slurs and things like that and then just thinking about how that affects them mentally and how that affects their home life and things like that. And just understanding that these people are facing the normal, in quotation marks, strains of teenage life, like self—esteem issues, just understanding where your place is amongst your friend groups, dealing with who am I as a person, but then also having to deal with how do I fit into this specific niche of ethnic populations and how do power relations play into that and so that’s kind of how that was there. And also a lot of people dealing with home issues like domestic violence, interpersonal violence with peers and relationship kind of stuff was also— a lot of people came in for that.
And then in middle schoolers, they have a lot of the same issues as high schoolers, but it’s actually really interesting to see how it’s not as bad. At least from what I gathered from what the data had told me was that it seems like there are a lot more support systems in place at the middle school level than any other level really and that they have a lot more services and availability for if they need to go talk to counselors or if they have issues with things. Which I thought was really interesting given that it’s middle school level. Just from past experience I think that’s where most things start going downhill I guess. And then elementary schoolers, well I think that this for me was the roughest one for me to learn about and understand. So a lot of the things in elementary schools, they actually don’t have as many people who are undocumented, just because the people who are entering these schools were already born in the U.S. because their parents were the ones who kind of brought them over or their parents were the ones that had to deal with in high school they were undocumented and things like that and so it’s interesting because there’s this new generation, that’s going to have to deal with these similar issues, but very different issues. So a lot of them are dealing with the fear of seeing a parent deported and the fear of what’s it like— how do you deal with living in a home where one of the parents is absent whether it’s divorce or they’re in Mexico or a Central American country or South American country and how do you teach kids to deal with this. It was a very touchy subject. It was very interesting to talk about with the counselors and just kind of understanding how they dealt with it and seeing how these elementary schoolers are responding to it. They had— something that really got me was the amount of suicide assessments that they do per year in the elementary schools. I was just like, “Whoa. I don’t even know how to respond to this.” Which I think was something that really got me. Just understanding the people at these schools are facing these kinds of issues. And it’s very much only in one school, which was also interesting because that school is heavily— almost entirely— Latinx whereas the other high school— the other elementary school— is almost entirely— well not almost entirely, it’s a bit more of an even mix between everyone. Between Latinx, White, Black. And so I thought that was also really interesting to see the disparities between the schools and kind of how the different schools responded. At least with the Latinx population, I can’t say anything about their black students or their white students and how they were reacting and how their health was and things like that. But yeah, that’s kind of—
RH: So, in Siler City how many main high schools are there? Is there just one, or?
EF: Yeah, so there’s only one high school in Siler City and there’s three high schools in the county.
RH: Okay
EF: One of them being in Siler City, another one being in Pittsboro, and the other one— I actually don’t know where Chatham Central is, but that’s the other one. And there’s one middle school that’s in Siler City, but then there’s a K-8 that’s in Silk Hope, which also isn’t that far. And usually Jordan Matthews takes in people from Silk Hope and Chatham Middle and there’s also a charter school that’s there that does K-10, which is really weird, but I think they’re expanding it to just be a K-12 school in Siler City, so that’s interesting to say the least. And then there are two elementary schools in Siler City and then of course Silk Hope that does— and a lot of other smaller elementary schools that are in the area, but most of the people that live in Siler City go to either Siler City Elementary or Virginia Cross Elementary or Silk Hope— that’s the other one.
RH: So as part of the research did you talk to counselors at a handful of the schools, or all of the schools, or only particular schools that you selected? Or I guess how did you go about that?
EF: Yeah, so I tried to focus on the schools that had high Latinx populations and then also if they were just in Siler City. So I interviewed people from Siler City, Virginia Cross, Chatham Middle, Jordan Matthews, Silk Hope? I don’t remember if I interviewed Silk Hope. I think I interviewed Silk Hope. No, I did not interview Silk Hope. And then I didn’t interview the charter school because there’s like two, maybe three Latinx people there, so that’s kind of how I based the selection for the interviews.
RH: [00:34:09] So let’s see. What has been a challenging aspect of your research experience? And when did you conduct— is this still ongoing or did you finish it up?
EF: So yeah I finished it up before exams started last semester.
RH: Okay.
EF: So I— what was the question before that?
RH: What was a challenging aspect of your research.
EF: A challenging aspect, yeah. So I think that the general technicalities of it were probably some of the most hardest parts. Like understanding how to conduct an interview and how to make sure that you’re not biased and making sure that you get sound information was one of the hardest parts of it. Just because this was my first time doing research and it was my first time doing research in general and I think that qualitative research is a whole different thing from quantitative research. And I think that quantitative research, while it’s more technical there’s more set guidelines for what to do and I think it’s a lot more easier to learn quantitative because you can analyze data and you can analyze doing that. But picking out themes in qualitative research and understanding how to come off socially, and kind of understanding— okay for example so with the whole suicide assessment thing. I had to be mindful of myself and not gasp or do anything because anything I might do might influence how they respond to the questions and I’m trying to get as unbiased as possible [inaudible]. Because I went to these schools and wanted to bring up certain things, but I knew I couldn’t because of the way it would be perceived by interviewers.
So, I think that part was also very difficult to manage, but I think the two things that probably got me the most were the suicide assessment part of the elementary schoolers and also the thing that was said in the focus group about the post-election kind of unfiltered language just because the counselors didn’t mention that. And I thought it was weird that they didn’t because I think that— and then again this is my biases coming in. I think that life is inherently political and life in any aspect is whatever you can, you can’t be apolitical in anything. And so understanding the way that our national political background is influencing the health of people and influencing the mental health of specific groups, I’m surprised that they didn’t mention it. And then whenever they brought it up in the focus group I was like ‘Ah, there is.’ I knew it was happening and it was affecting their health and whatnot, but I was like ‘Ah, okay talk more about this.’ So, understanding— well I don’t think understanding— but just thinking okay well what can be done from that perspective. There isn’t much that can be done from that perspective. Having teenagers cope with the political climate when not much can be done when he’s going to be there for like two and a half more years. I think those two are probably the hardest parts of reconciling with my research.
RH: So, when you’re conducting research it’s primarily interviews with the counselors and is the only time that you interacted with the kids during the focus groups? So I guess I’d be interested in hearing what the focus groups were like and how you use them to draw conclusions. Did you record them or how does that work?
EF: So the focus group was in conjunction with the main part of BIC. Which their main topics are civic engagement, leadership, and kind of town resources. And so, Jessica Lee asked me to do a little section at the back end and kind of come up with questions for the teenagers. Teenagers— I can’t believe I just said that. But anyway, the focus groups were completely anonymous so they weren’t recorded. There are notes on them, which I actually need to send— no that’s a different focus group just kidding. What was the question again?
RH: How did you use the focus groups?
EF: Yeah, and so I came up with questions from what I gathered from the interviews and okay let’s try and validate these, let’s see what students are perceiving to be the major health issues, mental health issues, and what services they perceive to be available. And so for them, the obvious gap between the counselors and the high school students— and this is just high school students that’s the thing also. So there are definitely gaps in my research that I wish I had time to do, but I didn’t have any.
RH: That’s my last question.
EF: And so, I— Oh shoot, where was I going with this. Words, come back.
RH: High school students, gaps between counselors and high school students.
EF: Okay yeah so the gaps between the high schoolers and counselors. So these services are available and they’re there, but I think that the perception between the systems coming to the counselors is very— they just don’t see them as an option really. And so while they see the counselors as friendly and they see them as a resource, they wouldn’t go to one. They wouldn’t actually go see a counselor if they needed help or they wouldn’t refer friends if they needed help. They knew about the major places to seek therapy, but there’s some kind of barrier that’s between actually going to see those services and so I wish that my research had gone a little bit more into why they weren’t just because it would better inform local policy and things like that, and then also understanding okay well how— and I think this is going to get into the larger BIC area— is understanding the political and understanding how the town of Siler City is going to take into account the new administration and how their perception is going to automatically change even though they have no relation to the presidency. But it will be interesting to see how the town of Siler City kind of manages that and how they try and service either a neutral stance or a counter stance to the presidency because I definitely don’t think that they would support anything involved with policies that are currently being emplaced by the Trump administration. But I definitely could see them taking a neutral stance like okay we don’t agree with this, we don’t disagree with this, but here’s what we’re going to do. Or they could go the complete opposite way and be like we disagree with this and here’s how we’re going to try to make this town more safe for immigrants and foreign—born people.
RH: [00:42:25] So you talked a little bit about this, but my last questions is what specifically would you be interested in looking into in the future, I guess in terms of— I mean this could turn into kind of a career question which we also talked about a little bit, or we could turn it into more of a gaps in research and things you wish you had more time to do kind of question. So if you wanted to reflect on that a little bit more.
EF: I think that for sure at least with my research I really wish I had interviewed more students, and kind of gotten the perspective of students, but that’s really hard to do from an ethical standpoint because these people are underage and you’re dealing with a very sensitive topic so it’s very difficult to get their perspective on things and yeah so I wish I had found a way to get a better perspective of students and how they perceive mental health. And then also— nothing that’s it. I think that’s probably my biggest wish that I had done. And then I guess in terms of career questions and things like that. I don’t know. So when I went into the program I was very much interested in three very specific things: global health, mental health, and access to care. While I still care about those things, I have found that I am interested in a lot more than I originally anticipated. I’m very interested in rural health and seeing how the rural urban divide kind of affects people’s physical, mental, emotional, social health and things like that. And so I think it’d be really interesting to integrate this already really vulnerable population of rural people and further stratify it to well how do ethnic minorities and racial minorities fit into this and what kind of future model of health and delivery model and things like that kind of fit into addressing their needs and their kind of very different needs from rural Americans in general. And then also understanding how we’re currently in this interesting development of a mental health system and understanding okay what can we do to further better the current system that we have in place and how can we make it more accessible and how can we encourage people to go see a therapist regularly and things like that. Because it’s interesting to see how we value physical health a lot more than mental health and how you’re encouraged to go see a primary care doctor at least once a year and you get a yearly checkup but we’re not supposed to go see a psychiatrist every year for a yearly checkup and things like that, so research in that area would be cool.
RH: We’ll that’s it, those are all my questions so thank you so much for being here.
EF: No problem.
RH: Alright.
END OF INTERVIEW
[00:46:04]
Transcribed by Rebecca Heine on April 4, 2018
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Estudiantes
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Eddy Fernandez es un estudiante de UNC-Chapel Hill quien habla de la experiencia de la inmigración de su familia de Texas a Siler City, Carolina del Norte. Él también habla de su experiencia viviendo en una región muy rural en Siler City con una gran población de latinos. Fernandez explica como la gran presencia de problemas de la salud mental que él ha visto en sus amigos ha tenido un impacto en su carrera en la salud pública. Fernandez también habla de su participación en el proyecto “Construyendo Comunidades Integradas con el gobierno local de Siler City para investigar los recursos de la salud mental para jóvenes.
Es: Temas
Racismo y discriminación; Salud; Redes Sociales; Educación Superior; Comunidades Receptoras
Es: Transcripción
Rebecca Heine: Hi this is Rebecca here interviewing Eddy Fernandez. Eddy do you consent to this interview?
Eddy Fernandez: Yes.
RH: Cool, let’s get started by you telling me about your year in school and what you’re studying.
EF: Yeah, so I’m a Junior so Class of 2019 and I’m studying Health Policy and Management in the School of Public Health here at UNC.
RH: [00:00:40] Okay, what do you see yourself doing career—wise in the future?
EF: That’s a very good question. I would say actually that I have a fairly decent idea of what I want to do. I eventually want to go either into research or into the health policy world and so kind of focusing on a career that would let me work on addressing health disparities and working on health systems either in the state or federal level. What that looks like exactly? I don’t know. It could be like working for a federal agency or it could be working for a state agency or it could be working at a research place like UNC and putting out more information about where the issues are in health disparities, what’s causing them and things like that and possible ways to address them. That’s kind of a broad overview of what I want to do and that’s probably all I can do honestly— broad.
RH: I gotcha. Have you enjoyed your first year through the Gillings program?
EF: Yeah oh my gosh I love Gillings so much. It’s a bit of a pain sometimes I will admit that. But this past week actually I had six or seven things due this one week actually because my professors decided to jam it all before Easter apparently. So it’s been really good because it’s very focused on health and health care and what’s it’s like here in the U.S. and kind of understanding how does the Federal Government and State Government interact to provide health insurance to people and how that affects their health and what other determinants affect whether or not someone’s living a health life like housing, income, things like that. So it’s been a really interesting year so far and I’ve learned a lot. It’s definitely— I don’t want to say changed my perspective, but it’s influenced how I think about health and how I perceive what is healthy, who starts off as healthy, and kind of thinking well what factors go into that.
RH: [00:02:54] Cool, so I was hoping you would get into describing your family life and your family’s immigration experience.
EF: Yeah, so I am an only child, which is very rare for Latinos, but— let’s see. I’m from Siler City first of all. I have half of my family here in Siler City. By here in Siler City I mean back home. Not like here in Chapel Hill. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. The other half are in Texas, Southern Texas, in a place called Alamo, which is a border city that’s literally, I think twenty minutes from Reynosa, which is in Tamaulipas the state. So, I lived at home with my mom and my stepdad. They— I’m trying to think of where to go from here. So they met each other when I think I was seven or eight so they’ve been together for more than half my life and so I’ve known him for a very long time. And then my other family who’s in North Carolina— it’s one of my aunts her name is Esperanza and she has also lived there her entire life and then my other aunt who lives in— not in Siler City necessarily, but she lives in High Point— they used to live in Siler City and then they moved to Chicago, and then they moved to Miami, and then they moved back to Siler City and then moved back to High Point. So they have been there in North Carolina for a good while, but not too long. And so the way that they immigrated here is really interesting actually. Originally from my family a lot of them are actually citizens so the only people that aren’t citizens are the three oldest in my family which is one of my aunts that lives in Texas, one of my uncles that lives in Texas and then my Mom. All three of them have their residency. So the way that they moved is that originally they lived in Alamo, they lived in McAllen and so they would go back and forth between Texas and Reynosa, which is again like twenty minutes from there and then eventually one of my aunts— the oldest one actually— moved to Siler City for— I actually don’t remember the reason why. But she eventually kind of brought over another aunt and my Mom and then ended up bringing one of my uncles over and then my aunt that had moved there originally decided that she didn’t like living in North Carolina so then she moved back to Texas. And then my uncle moved back to Texas and then another aunt came up to North Carolina so it was just a huge swapping motion and what not, but the reason that they came up was because of work and because of a poultry plant that was in Siler City. It was Townsend. And so they ended up just liking it here and so they decided to stay in North Carolina and Siler City specifically and they just kind of made their life here. My Mom worked for a little bit at a fabrics place and then she switched over to this manufacturing company that’s in Siler City that manufactures different plastics for different parts and then she’s been there for I don’t even know like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years around there. Definitely like most of my life. Yeah, the poultry plant had closed down a while ago and both of my aunts ended up quitting before they closed. They did work there for a little while and that’s kind of what brought them to Siler City. So it’s just a lot of crossing over and traveling back and forth between these random family ties that you wouldn’t have guessed that they moved here to Siler City for something, but they did.
RH: What does your stepdad do?
EF: Yeah, so my stepdad, he works in a warehouse and he kind of just keeps up that warehouse and he establishes and kind of physically helps build office spaces. And he does that in Raleigh and Durham and for the office spaces it kind of depends on where they have him go it could be in Raleigh, Durham, he could be in Charlotte one day. A lot of traveling for him.
RH: [00:07:50] So I was hoping you would discuss you experience growing up in rural North Carolina and your and your family’s experience being part of the greater Latinx community there.
EF: Yeah, so could you repeat the question again.
RH: So, what was your experience growing up in rural North Carolina and being part of the greater Latinx community there.
EF: So I think in my head I grew up in rural North Carolina, but I don’t think I grew up in a traditional thinking of rural North Carolina because Siler City is like sixty or seventy percent Latinx. And so I think that I did grow up in a very rural area, but not in traditional rural areas like Ramseur, Asheboro or things like that, something with a higher population of white Americans. So I think growing up specifically in Siler City, which is coming next but I’ll talk about the rural part first, is interesting because there is this aspect where it’s kind of fun to poke at rural North Carolina and then being part of rural North Carolina, but you definitely see the kind of— and I definitely have realized it more that I’ve been here and I’ve kind of learned about the rural urban divide. But kind of seeing the lack of opportunities in rural areas and seeing the way that rural communities are set up— not necessarily to fail, but there’s scarce opportunity for people to be like socially mobile. I can’t think of that word now, you know what I’m talking about? Okay. Yeah and so of course me and my friends would always pick at ‘Oh let’s go hang out at the Walmart that’s our mall’ you know whatever and we’d have to drive thirty or forty minutes to get anywhere for fun so me and my friends did a lot of bonfires and we just hung out at the McDonalds and just did random stuff at each other’s houses. But kind of seeing— moving away from Siler City and getting an outside perspective of the short time that I’ve been here it’s been really interesting because I would say that from my high school not that many pursued higher education and I would say that’s because there just wasn’t much to do in Siler City. There just was not much educational opportunities slash ways to stay involved slash ways to also just grow as a person because you’re very much exposed to the same thing every single day. So I mean like— some people enjoy that. They like living in rural areas because it’s their thing and some people it’s like there’s nothing to do here so let’s go do xyz instead. And xyz isn’t necessarily good for the most part. So seeing that and also when you intersect the fact that the majority of the people there are Latinx and then you think about the history of Siler City. The history of Siler City is very interesting when you see the shift in the influx of Latinxes coming in in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s and you see how KKK rallies were hosted in Siler City at one point and the grand dragon was there for a little bit. And it’s funny because I was actually talking to my Mom about this a while ago and— well to give a little bit of context I’m very much involved in the Campus Y and I do a lot of the protesting and things like that and I was talking to my Mom one day and I like straight up asked her, I was like ‘Have you every been to a protest?’ And she was like, ‘Yeah I think I went to one in the early 2000’s that was against the KKK’ and I was like ‘what Mom?’ I asked her so much about it I don’t know and the history of Siler City is really interesting because it wasn’t interracial until this influx has happened and it wasn’t always a racially accepting town and I still would say it’s not. I mean, it’s made a lot of progress for sure, but there’s still a lot of issues in Siler City regarding how they treat Latinxes and so when you intersect that with the issues that a lot of Latinx people face it gets even more stark for the people that live in these rural areas like you have to worry about like okay where am I going to work, does that place allow me to work without papers, what about English and what about accessing services and what happens if I can’t pay my bills and who do I go to for that and things like that. So I think growing up in Siler City and seeing kind of the effects of racial disparities and income disparities and things like that and seeing the rural urban divide while I’ve been here has been a big push on why I’m interested in health disparities because literally everything that a person does is affecting their health and affecting how they live and what not so I think that’s why I’m very interested in health disparities and I think that’s why I pursued health policy and management. And I think that’s why I’m going to pursue research or health policy when I graduate.
RH: So when you said that influx of Latinx coming into Siler City, was that for the poultry plant?
EF: Yeah, so a lot of it was for the poultry plant that was there. It was Townsend and they would hire— I don’t know if they would actually use— I can’t remember the name of the Visa now, but it was the work Visa thing and I don’t know if they actually hired people from that or if they just had a few people that worked there that were Latinx and just kind of brought their families over just by word of mouth, but a lot of that was because of the poultry plant. And out right now there’s – well while it closed down two or three years ago there’s actually another one that’s opening up next yearish so it will be interesting to see how that affects migration patterns again in Siler City.
RH: Interesting. So you mentioned that you think that Siler City has a long way to go in terms of definitely having some issues of discrimination against the Latinx community, so I guess I was hoping you would talk a little more about instances of that or talk a little bit more about why you specifically think that Siler City needs to improve in certain aspects.
EF: I don’t know, I think a lot of it has to do with the historical and what’s happened already and the lack of trust that there is between the Latinx population in Siler city and the greater government in general whether it be local, police force, state government, things like that. But specifically instances— my parents have said so and I’ve kind of felt the same way is whenever police kind of follow and pull over people and they’ll set up checkpoints in very specific areas and areas that they know are home to a large population of the Latino population in Siler City. They’ll put them in strategic areas at strategic times like when people are going to work, coming home from work, when people are dropping their kids at school, so it’s very— it’s the worst. I was going to use a different word, but I probably shouldn’t. But they set them up in these areas— and they’ve been better about not setting up as many checkpoints in the past year or two and I think— I was an intern at the health department last summer and so I was talking a bit to the people there and they were telling me about how the chief had taken a trip to— I can’t remember where in Mexico and just kind of learned about migrants and their experiences and why they come to the US and specifically Siler City because a lot of the migrants are from— I can’t remember if there are a lot from Guadalajara or somewhere else I can’t remember, but just kind of learning what larger forces are bringing them in. I want to say that trip really influenced him in that he hasn’t put check points in as many areas and granted they’re still going to have to put some checkpoints because it’s what they do, but not as heavy in very specific areas and I don’t know it’s been interesting to see how that change has happened and see how my family perceives it because they’ve definitely noticed it too. They remember six or seven years ago that they’d put a checkpoint every other week, like every month at least and it’s been a while since I’ve seen one at least and it’s been a while since they’ve seen one. It’s funny— I think I’ve noticed it more that I’ve started driving like when I was seventeen or eighteen when I actually started driving a lot on my own, but whenever I’d see a checkpoint I’d immediately freeze up and get really nervous and just being like ‘okay why am I nervous, why am I doing this, why am I having this reaction.’ And I think a lot of it stems from the way that I saw my parents perceive checkpoints and the way that my family perceived checkpoints and just kind of attributing that to ‘Okay, something bad is going to happen as soon as I walk in here and have my license read.’
RH: Okay, interesting. So you started talking about this, but how to you believe that your experience has impacted your research and career path. You’ve gotten into this a little bit.
EF: Yes. Like I said, going back to how health isn’t just receiving medical care and it’s not just the process of going to the doctor or getting a check up and what not. It’s important to do that, but that’s only twenty percent of what contributes to health. Everything else is up to the social determinants of health. What’s your housing like? What’s your income like? What kind of access to food do you have? Are they healthy foods? What about access to gyms and things like that. So, understanding okay there are a ton of different things that influence health and I think that’s a big reason why I want to pursue research and policy in that. It’s like we’re not going to— okay so a quick background about this— so the U.S. spends the most on healthcare, but we have the worst health outcomes compared to any other developed country. A lot of that is because we don’t take into account the effects of housing and income and things like that and racial disparities and how that affects people’s social mobility and how that affects health. I think that for me I’m extremely interested in social determinants, but I’m also really interested in mental health and how social determinants affect mental health. So I think that as soon as I heard that Siler city had gotten the BIC grant thing I went up to Hannah and Jessica Lee and said ‘Hey is there anyway that I can help with this. This is in my home town and I think it would be really great to work on this’ and they were like ‘yeah sure that would be great if you could’ and they were very open to me just kind of doing my own project and running with it. So I was like well let me see how mental health is perceived slash what kind of services are available for youth in Siler city and so— what was the question again? I want to make sure that I’m not straying.
RH: [00:21:18] How do you believe that your experience has impacted your research and career path. And then if you want, I mean the next question is discuss your research with me so if you want to start getting into that because I know they’re interrelated then go for it.
EF: Yeah, I’ll go a little bit and do the reasons why.
RH: Okay, perfect.
EF: I think the reasons why are a lot because of what I experienced in high school and seeing a lot of different friends dealing with mental health issues and a lot of them not pursuing help until after they graduated or have yet to pursue any help. I have a couple friends who went through major episodes of depression and major episodes of mania and a lot of people who self—harmed and things like that so I think seeing that and seeing a lot of it really was the reason why I wanted to do the research and kind of understanding okay what kind of resources are available there, what is the gap. What are the reasons this is happening first of all and what can be done to address these things and so for me I want to I guess get to the root of it, but understand what can be done from a policy perspective and what are things that local government can do. And that’s the whole thing about BIC, it’s leveraging local governments to impact local communities and also better integrating these migrant populations into local government and mental health is a part of that so I wanted to explore that in the research I did and I guess I’ll go ahead and start talking about the research itself.
RH: Go for it!
EF: So the way that it worked was that I interviewed school counselors and kind of got their perspective on okay what kind of things are offered within the school system and what kind of things are you seeing most of and how are people coming to you, what are they telling you and things like that. And so at least from what I’ve gathered there’s a good system in place in regards to people who can go to them and get the services that they need, but I think that from the research that I saw and what I gathered not many people are using them. They are being used pretty frequently, but not to the extent to which I feel like they should be. They have these in—school counselors, and then they have in—school therapists, and in school therapy, and then they do referrals and I don’t know they have a lot of different mechanisms from which they can refer people to if they should need do and so I think that’s really good, but – and this is the case for almost all schools really— counseling and support services are severely under—resourced and they don’t have the necessary tools to deal with these pressing issues and so I found out that there are these services that are available and a lot of the people that do come in tend to be kind of really worried about what’s going to happen post high—school amongst the high schoolers— I guess I’ll go through for every grade—ish. And so in high schoolers people are generally worried about what’s going to happen post grad like where am I going to go, what am I going to do, what kind of things are available to me. Because a lot of the people in Siler city, at least it was previously— I actually don’t know about it now because I’ll talk about it with elementary schoolers in a bit, but a lot of them are undocumented so they’re just worried about what kind of things are open to me, what kind of things post grad so they get into this kind of mindset of like there’s nothing out there for me and in some instances it’s validated. There aren’t too many things that are out there for undocumented people. There’s limited resources and it’s a very stark reality and it sucks and that’s one of the reasons why a lot of people go to like that.
And another thing is also just the general— well general’s not the right word, but dealing with self—esteem issues and things that every high schooler goes through and then having that further amplified through racial inequalities and things like that and it’s funny because another part of the research was doing a focus group with youth and I was able to do a little session with them about that and something that they had said that I was not prepared for was the effects of this past election on how they’re treated amongst their white peers and the specific quote that I was thinking of was that there’s no filter anymore. People will just go through the school yelling random things and yell racial slurs and things like that and then just thinking about how that affects them mentally and how that affects their home life and things like that. And just understanding that these people are facing the normal, in quotation marks, strains of teenage life, like self—esteem issues, just understanding where your place is amongst your friend groups, dealing with who am I as a person, but then also having to deal with how do I fit into this specific niche of ethnic populations and how do power relations play into that and so that’s kind of how that was there. And also a lot of people dealing with home issues like domestic violence, interpersonal violence with peers and relationship kind of stuff was also— a lot of people came in for that.
And then in middle schoolers, they have a lot of the same issues as high schoolers, but it’s actually really interesting to see how it’s not as bad. At least from what I gathered from what the data had told me was that it seems like there are a lot more support systems in place at the middle school level than any other level really and that they have a lot more services and availability for if they need to go talk to counselors or if they have issues with things. Which I thought was really interesting given that it’s middle school level. Just from past experience I think that’s where most things start going downhill I guess. And then elementary schoolers, well I think that this for me was the roughest one for me to learn about and understand. So a lot of the things in elementary schools, they actually don’t have as many people who are undocumented, just because the people who are entering these schools were already born in the U.S. because their parents were the ones who kind of brought them over or their parents were the ones that had to deal with in high school they were undocumented and things like that and so it’s interesting because there’s this new generation, that’s going to have to deal with these similar issues, but very different issues. So a lot of them are dealing with the fear of seeing a parent deported and the fear of what’s it like— how do you deal with living in a home where one of the parents is absent whether it’s divorce or they’re in Mexico or a Central American country or South American country and how do you teach kids to deal with this. It was a very touchy subject. It was very interesting to talk about with the counselors and just kind of understanding how they dealt with it and seeing how these elementary schoolers are responding to it. They had— something that really got me was the amount of suicide assessments that they do per year in the elementary schools. I was just like, “Whoa. I don’t even know how to respond to this.” Which I think was something that really got me. Just understanding the people at these schools are facing these kinds of issues. And it’s very much only in one school, which was also interesting because that school is heavily— almost entirely— Latinx whereas the other high school— the other elementary school— is almost entirely— well not almost entirely, it’s a bit more of an even mix between everyone. Between Latinx, White, Black. And so I thought that was also really interesting to see the disparities between the schools and kind of how the different schools responded. At least with the Latinx population, I can’t say anything about their black students or their white students and how they were reacting and how their health was and things like that. But yeah, that’s kind of—
RH: So, in Siler City how many main high schools are there? Is there just one, or?
EF: Yeah, so there’s only one high school in Siler City and there’s three high schools in the county.
RH: Okay
EF: One of them being in Siler City, another one being in Pittsboro, and the other one— I actually don’t know where Chatham Central is, but that’s the other one. And there’s one middle school that’s in Siler City, but then there’s a K-8 that’s in Silk Hope, which also isn’t that far. And usually Jordan Matthews takes in people from Silk Hope and Chatham Middle and there’s also a charter school that’s there that does K-10, which is really weird, but I think they’re expanding it to just be a K-12 school in Siler City, so that’s interesting to say the least. And then there are two elementary schools in Siler City and then of course Silk Hope that does— and a lot of other smaller elementary schools that are in the area, but most of the people that live in Siler City go to either Siler City Elementary or Virginia Cross Elementary or Silk Hope— that’s the other one.
RH: So as part of the research did you talk to counselors at a handful of the schools, or all of the schools, or only particular schools that you selected? Or I guess how did you go about that?
EF: Yeah, so I tried to focus on the schools that had high Latinx populations and then also if they were just in Siler City. So I interviewed people from Siler City, Virginia Cross, Chatham Middle, Jordan Matthews, Silk Hope? I don’t remember if I interviewed Silk Hope. I think I interviewed Silk Hope. No, I did not interview Silk Hope. And then I didn’t interview the charter school because there’s like two, maybe three Latinx people there, so that’s kind of how I based the selection for the interviews.
RH: [00:34:09] So let’s see. What has been a challenging aspect of your research experience? And when did you conduct— is this still ongoing or did you finish it up?
EF: So yeah I finished it up before exams started last semester.
RH: Okay.
EF: So I— what was the question before that?
RH: What was a challenging aspect of your research.
EF: A challenging aspect, yeah. So I think that the general technicalities of it were probably some of the most hardest parts. Like understanding how to conduct an interview and how to make sure that you’re not biased and making sure that you get sound information was one of the hardest parts of it. Just because this was my first time doing research and it was my first time doing research in general and I think that qualitative research is a whole different thing from quantitative research. And I think that quantitative research, while it’s more technical there’s more set guidelines for what to do and I think it’s a lot more easier to learn quantitative because you can analyze data and you can analyze doing that. But picking out themes in qualitative research and understanding how to come off socially, and kind of understanding— okay for example so with the whole suicide assessment thing. I had to be mindful of myself and not gasp or do anything because anything I might do might influence how they respond to the questions and I’m trying to get as unbiased as possible [inaudible]. Because I went to these schools and wanted to bring up certain things, but I knew I couldn’t because of the way it would be perceived by interviewers.
So, I think that part was also very difficult to manage, but I think the two things that probably got me the most were the suicide assessment part of the elementary schoolers and also the thing that was said in the focus group about the post-election kind of unfiltered language just because the counselors didn’t mention that. And I thought it was weird that they didn’t because I think that— and then again this is my biases coming in. I think that life is inherently political and life in any aspect is whatever you can, you can’t be apolitical in anything. And so understanding the way that our national political background is influencing the health of people and influencing the mental health of specific groups, I’m surprised that they didn’t mention it. And then whenever they brought it up in the focus group I was like ‘Ah, there is.’ I knew it was happening and it was affecting their health and whatnot, but I was like ‘Ah, okay talk more about this.’ So, understanding— well I don’t think understanding— but just thinking okay well what can be done from that perspective. There isn’t much that can be done from that perspective. Having teenagers cope with the political climate when not much can be done when he’s going to be there for like two and a half more years. I think those two are probably the hardest parts of reconciling with my research.
RH: So, when you’re conducting research it’s primarily interviews with the counselors and is the only time that you interacted with the kids during the focus groups? So I guess I’d be interested in hearing what the focus groups were like and how you use them to draw conclusions. Did you record them or how does that work?
EF: So the focus group was in conjunction with the main part of BIC. Which their main topics are civic engagement, leadership, and kind of town resources. And so, Jessica Lee asked me to do a little section at the back end and kind of come up with questions for the teenagers. Teenagers— I can’t believe I just said that. But anyway, the focus groups were completely anonymous so they weren’t recorded. There are notes on them, which I actually need to send— no that’s a different focus group just kidding. What was the question again?
RH: How did you use the focus groups?
EF: Yeah, and so I came up with questions from what I gathered from the interviews and okay let’s try and validate these, let’s see what students are perceiving to be the major health issues, mental health issues, and what services they perceive to be available. And so for them, the obvious gap between the counselors and the high school students— and this is just high school students that’s the thing also. So there are definitely gaps in my research that I wish I had time to do, but I didn’t have any.
RH: That’s my last question.
EF: And so, I— Oh shoot, where was I going with this. Words, come back.
RH: High school students, gaps between counselors and high school students.
EF: Okay yeah so the gaps between the high schoolers and counselors. So these services are available and they’re there, but I think that the perception between the systems coming to the counselors is very— they just don’t see them as an option really. And so while they see the counselors as friendly and they see them as a resource, they wouldn’t go to one. They wouldn’t actually go see a counselor if they needed help or they wouldn’t refer friends if they needed help. They knew about the major places to seek therapy, but there’s some kind of barrier that’s between actually going to see those services and so I wish that my research had gone a little bit more into why they weren’t just because it would better inform local policy and things like that, and then also understanding okay well how— and I think this is going to get into the larger BIC area— is understanding the political and understanding how the town of Siler City is going to take into account the new administration and how their perception is going to automatically change even though they have no relation to the presidency. But it will be interesting to see how the town of Siler City kind of manages that and how they try and service either a neutral stance or a counter stance to the presidency because I definitely don’t think that they would support anything involved with policies that are currently being emplaced by the Trump administration. But I definitely could see them taking a neutral stance like okay we don’t agree with this, we don’t disagree with this, but here’s what we’re going to do. Or they could go the complete opposite way and be like we disagree with this and here’s how we’re going to try to make this town more safe for immigrants and foreign—born people.
RH: [00:42:25] So you talked a little bit about this, but my last questions is what specifically would you be interested in looking into in the future, I guess in terms of— I mean this could turn into kind of a career question which we also talked about a little bit, or we could turn it into more of a gaps in research and things you wish you had more time to do kind of question. So if you wanted to reflect on that a little bit more.
EF: I think that for sure at least with my research I really wish I had interviewed more students, and kind of gotten the perspective of students, but that’s really hard to do from an ethical standpoint because these people are underage and you’re dealing with a very sensitive topic so it’s very difficult to get their perspective on things and yeah so I wish I had found a way to get a better perspective of students and how they perceive mental health. And then also— nothing that’s it. I think that’s probably my biggest wish that I had done. And then I guess in terms of career questions and things like that. I don’t know. So when I went into the program I was very much interested in three very specific things: global health, mental health, and access to care. While I still care about those things, I have found that I am interested in a lot more than I originally anticipated. I’m very interested in rural health and seeing how the rural urban divide kind of affects people’s physical, mental, emotional, social health and things like that. And so I think it’d be really interesting to integrate this already really vulnerable population of rural people and further stratify it to well how do ethnic minorities and racial minorities fit into this and what kind of future model of health and delivery model and things like that kind of fit into addressing their needs and their kind of very different needs from rural Americans in general. And then also understanding how we’re currently in this interesting development of a mental health system and understanding okay what can we do to further better the current system that we have in place and how can we make it more accessible and how can we encourage people to go see a therapist regularly and things like that. Because it’s interesting to see how we value physical health a lot more than mental health and how you’re encouraged to go see a primary care doctor at least once a year and you get a yearly checkup but we’re not supposed to go see a psychiatrist every year for a yearly checkup and things like that, so research in that area would be cool.
RH: We’ll that’s it, those are all my questions so thank you so much for being here.
EF: No problem.
RH: Alright.
END OF INTERVIEW
[00:46:04]
Transcribed by Rebecca Heine on April 4, 2018
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
Es: Citación
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0901 -- Fernandez, Eduardo.
Description
An account of the resource
Eddy Fernandez is a 3rd-year student at UNC-Chapel Hill who discusses his family’s experience immigrating to Siler City, North Carolina from Texas for employment in the Townsend Chicken Processing Plant. He also discusses his experience growing up in Siler City, a rural area that was primarily Latinx/Latino/Latina. Fernandez explains the way in which the large presence of mental health issues related to migration that he witnessed among his friends growing up has impacted his career choice in the field of public health. Fernandez discusses how he conducted a research project in 2017 on youth mental health as part of the Building Integrated Communities Initiative with the Town of Siler City.
Source
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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-04-05
Format
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R0901_Audio.mp3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27563">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/2d100029a7f9527023c0d6928d16ada8.mp3
1d8c55dd817d31037c04fdcea731313c
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/a3d4f0c0065c93caf6901f15c097bfcc.pdf
686c410535c99ada50ee65b59d00cbae
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0864
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
09 March 2017
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Caltabiano, Kristina.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Students
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1989
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Syracuse -- New York -- United States
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Carrboro -- Orange County -- North Carolina
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Enrique, Raina.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Kristina Caltabiano discusses her international experiences and how they have all shaped her identity. She talks about how central speaking Spanish is to her identity, and the battle present in valuing a transient lifestyle but also wanting a sense of community. Caltabiano makes comparisons between her Italian-American family to the families she has spent time with in Latin America, and goes on to describe the ways the good times and challenges she faced in Latin America has transformed her. Caltabiano closes the interview with remarks about how important it is for her to be seen as an individual, with regards to being and American abroad.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Kristina Caltabiano by Raina Enrique, 09 March 2017, R-0864, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27403
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Identity; Language and communication; Social networks
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:00] Raina Enrique: I’m Raina and I am doing a research project for GLOBAL 382. It is currently March ninth on a nice Thursday afternoon at three o’ three, and I am here with Kristina Caltabiano, who graciously agreed to be interviewed today. So, Kristina, how’re you doing?
Kristina Caltabiano: I’m doing well, thank you so much for having me.
RE: Yeah, thanks for coming. So, could you just start off by telling me about your experiences abroad?
KC: Sure! [00:00:35] I have had the privilege of being abroad quite a few times. My first experience abroad was actually a trip to Mexico with my grandfather and his wife. They took my brothers and I camping when I was fourteen, it was the first plane I ever took, we went camping in Arizona and we crossed the border to Mexico. So that was the first time I was abroad and I knew ‘this was amazing, this was so different, this was so cool.’ And after that I did a two week trip my freshman year in college: one week in Rome, one week in Paris. Two weeks, or two years later I did a semester in Europe: five weeks in Rome, five weeks in Paris, and five weeks in Salamanca, Spain. And my time in Spain really solidified the fact that I wanted to learn Spanish. I loved Spain, I loved the Spanish culture, and I knew how useful Spanish was in the states. After that, I had the opportunity to do another semester abroad because I had finished all of my required courses, and I decided to go to Chile, to Santiago, in Chile, to do a full semester. So, this was like: OK, I’m going to learn Spanish and I know what will happen because I have no other choice, and my classes were in Spanish. So that was my pre-undergrad experience abroad. And I also had a research grant to go to Vietnam, so this was very much through an educational experience and a lot of scholarship, and also it was incorporated within the tuition I was already paying so that is what enabled me to be able to go, because I did finance everything myself. So, after I graduated, I was looking for a volunteer experience that I didn’t have to pay for. It’s a lot you have to-- they won’t fund you-- and I heard about the Peace Corps and so I decided to apply my senior year of college. Actually, it was late in my senior year of college and the application process was over a year so during that year wait period I spent ten months in Spain during the wait period teaching English, and then after that I came back to the states for a few months and I nannied and I saved money and then February 2013 I left for Guatemala for my two-year Peace Corps service. And since then, I spent last summer in Brazil, doing-- studying Portuguese through a FLAS scholarship, and I will hopefully (I will find out tomorrow) but I may be doing a semester in Rio in the fall.
RE: That’s amazing!
KC: To solidify my Portuguese.
RE: (laugh) So, I have eight different things listed here where you’ve gone off abroad, that’s really impressive. So, what was your favorite part about being in these countries? So, given that there’s so many listed I would say pick three and just say just the best parts of each of those for you.
[00:03:55] KC: Sure, so for me, I have found that I feel a lot more like myself, a better, the best form of myself when I am in unfamiliar territory. And it might come with being out of my comfort zone, that that suits me well. Just the newness, the excitement, the—everything’s different than what I am used to and I do well with change, I really, it’s an environment that I thrive in and so three things that I love. I love experiencing what it’s like with local people and so that for me means food, the language, and I would say dress, but some may dress similarly to people here. But specifically, in Guatemala they dressed very differently and that was an exciting part of their culture
RE: That’s amazing! And so, you did touch on this a little bit, but if you could just expand: in what capacity did you interact with the locals of these places? So, [00:05:10] in what capacity did you interact with the locals of say, Mexico, when you just went to camp, versus, you know, when you were on a research grant in Vietnam?
KC: Every experience has been very different and I think that the amount of interaction with locals comes with spending a long time there. So, for example, going, crossing the border in Nogales to go to a Mexican restaurant when I was fourteen and I spoke like three words of Spanish, it was super touristy and my grandfather was really protective and I felt very naïve but still really fun I was like “wow this is so different” and they really put on a show because it’s a border town and so they had all the mariachis in the restaurant and all the vendors in the streets and all the cat-calling which was totally new. And then thinking about when we did the research project, we, my professor, had a lot of local contacts and so we got to go to this really, really, really cool outdoor restaurant-buffet-Sunday ceremony place. It was just a sprawl of food and people and picnic tables and very much a local event. And that was my, definitely a high of the trip for me. Was just doing what local people would be doing. And that, like in Guatemala, looked like going to the market every day and not, you know, having a fridge full of food like I might here. And that was sort of a ritual, it’s a ritual that they do: go out, get your food for your daily lunch, and then cook your lunch and have fruit on hand and then do it all again the next day. And that for me is, I love it, it’s so rewarding
RE: Have your interactions with local people, so then I guess like a more recent time you might want to pull on might be Guatemala, and it could be any of your abroad experiences, but have any of these interactions revealed to you anything with regards to identity? So, for example, you know, you might say Guatemalan identity is based in cooking lunch or whatever. So, is there anything that you might’ve picked up from any of these places?
KC: I would say in thinking about my identity as an individual I’m very much—like I identify as a second-language learner. Spanish is a very big part of my life and it’s funny, identity comes out when you start dating people and seeing what you’re looking for and seeing what I choose to talk about when you’re getting to know a person. And so much of that is [00:08:28] Spanish is so big for me in that it’s a gateway to this part of my life that I want to continue to explore. So Guatemala completely solidified that for me. And it’s not just the language of Spanish it’s all of the connections that come from it. So, connecting, being able to travel with relative ease which is again a huge privilege, to places that speak Spanish and be able to understand them and know what’s going on and make genuine connections with people, which is reciprocated, it’s very exciting for them it’s really exciting for me, and part of it is sometimes I like the high of it, which I have done a lot of reflecting on this. It’s like why do I continue to want to be outside of the country? Why did I continue to want to be anywhere, you know, anywhere in Latin America? It’s not one specific place it’s like just put me there and I’ll be fine and they’re all, every single country, every single community is so different from another but what they offer me and what I, the way I connect and feel alive is what keeps me going back
RE: The majority of times when you have almost typical Americans they rather be in their comfort zone. They rather not change, they rather just speak English like whatever, and so for you to just say that you feel most Kristina when you don’t have anything to do with America, do you know what I’m saying? That’s not exactly what you said, but that’s just so interesting …but also, I think a lot of times we do find who we are by being in an uncomfortable situation, and by seeing how do you react in it, what are the types of things you’re saying, you know? And so, for you to see that in yourself, and you’re young, you know, and to like see that already, it’s--
KC: I’m twenty-seven. So, yeah. It’s weird that, I mean I’m definitely the oldest in the class, obviously. Yeah, I mean I think it’s funny to hear from your perspective because from my perspective sometimes it’s scary, in a way that it’s like I don’t know why but I don’t. I love the people in my life here I love what I’m doing here. I value my friends and my family and I know I need, I won’t be here forever. So, accepting that transient life and not feeling particularly attached or like I need to be in one place, that’s not what does it for me.
RE: I almost feel like that might be a goal of our previous generation, to be settled.
KC: That we strive to be settled?
RE: Yeah.
KC: Yeah, I mean that’s something I’ve definitely been exploring and working on. Not like to get to a point where I want to be settled because that’s certainly not my goal but to be just embracing ‘this is where I’m at’ and I do know that I’ll be moving around and what does that look like for me at this point in my life. You know, what are the priorities? Like my priority right now is school and my priority after school would be finding a job, building a career, and so, twenty-seven, you know, you start to think ‘ok where does a partner fit into this? ‘Where would I meet someone if I’m?’—yeah – well I mean this is a real thing and it’s not something that’s a concern at this point in time, and I have my own agenda so it’s thinking, just being aware of it. [00:12:45] Don’t, you know, set myself up in a way that won’t be a few months here, a few months there, a few months there, because that doesn’t build any community for me and community is a big thing that I need in my life. Whether it be a, what’s it called, a remote community, people that I feel connected to via skype and phone calls which is what I’ve done over the years. Have my solid people that have been with me here and here and here via phone conversations
RE: Thank you so much for that. So just to back track just a tiny bit. In regards to identity, do you see any parallels in the most salient aspects of your identity to those of say, Guatemala, or wherever else you might want to compare, or Spain- you spent a lot of time there too. So maybe a sense of valuing transiency or a sense of community or family; are there any strong parallels with other communities that you see?
KC: No, I would say actually the direct opposite and that [00:14:12] the communities that I’ve lived in are so grounded and don’t really leave where they are- that is the most comforting for me. So, when you said ‘do you feel any connection’ like identity with those communities, I immediately thought of my aunts and uncles who I would say for a while were global citizens. Very much traveling, very much abroad, moving around. When I think of my identity I think of my grandmother was an immigrant from Italy, and so there’s- I have a huge Italian family on my dad’s side and that’s very much a part of my identity that is big family, the loud family entered around food and lots of kids running around and that for me is very comforting and that’s something that I find often- I found in Guatemala I really experienced some in Brazil that whole centered around family that’s very important for me and then on the other side my mom’s side of the family they were all travelers and she was one of seven and my mom was the oldest and she was the one that stayed. She didn’t really travel a lot, she got married and had kids while her younger brothers and sisters were off traveling, off doing their adventures and when I was young so that was the role- they were the role models for me. And they used to give me spoons and all the countries that they went to and I have this massive spoon collection (laugh) from all these countries in Asia and all over the world and I didn’t understand it when I was that young but I have this weird spoon collection that’s actually pretty cool
RE: That’s something to say for icebreakers you know, I don’t know if you do this in grad school but.
KC: () Two truths and a lie: ‘I have a spoon collection.’ And it got so big because my mom would get me a case for it, we had to buy a second case for it and I think my mom has it somewhere.
RE: And it’s not in your house? (laugh)
KC: No, I don’t have any room for that.
RE: Wow, so [pause] (laugh) I’m really still thinking about all of these spoons on the wall. Could you tell me a bit about, if any, some of the biggest challenges that you faced while…yeah, well I’m kind of jumping around because you answered this question. Let me just kind of stay in order. Basically, my first question was going to be “is there one country in particular that you feel like shaped you more so than the others?” and from previous responses I’m getting the feel that it might have been Guatemala?
KC: (shakes head no).
RE: No? So, then what is it?
[00:17:19] KC: If I were to choose the country that shaped me, I would say that my time in Chile was the most formative because it was the first time I was abroad completely by myself. The previous, my sophomore when I did the semester abroad, it was with a cohort from St. Johns, from my school, and we all were together. We were in a dorm with all English-speaking students, all of our classes were in English and in my rime when I did the semester in Santiago I got dropped off, I walked off the plane, a host family picked me up, I didn’t speak any Spanish I didn’t know anyone , I…it was crazy and I look back on it and I think ‘wow yeah that’s why it was so formative because I had to learn Spanish, all of my classes were in Spanish, my host family didn’t speak English.’ And I made a couple English-speaking friends and they were two European girls and it was the first time that I wasn’t around Americans at all. It was so nice (laugh) it was so refreshing.
RE: I could imagine. (laugh)
KC: I didn’t realize it until the end of my time there when I went on a trip and I was around other Americans and I was thinking ‘man this has been nice!’ They were speaking in acronyms, these three girls, I’ll never forget. They were on their phones the whole time, they were speaking in acronyms. What have I been missing, you know? So, I-- and I started, I learned Spanish there. And so, coming back from that experience I went to Spain and that was like ‘ok my Spanish is getting better but I feel fine’ and I got to Guatemala and I could communicate perfectly, I was really confident where I was at that place in time with myself and where a lot of people, the two years in peace corps is hugely formative, whereas for me it was more…
RE: …solidifying?
KC: Yeah, solidifying. That I, this is where I, this is what I wanted to do with my life, this is what I wanted to pursue in grad school based on the work I did, it was more career-enriching as opposed to, and it was certainly personally enriching, but it wasn’t transformative. I was already, the transformation or huge growing peak had already, I had already done that.
[00:19:52] RE: So, with that, could you tell me about your biggest challenges that you faced in Chile? And so, I know you kind of touched on a few things but is there one specific thing, one specific scene that you’re like ‘ok, this is hard’ and you didn’t have to have overcome it, I’m just curious. (laugh)
KC: Yeah, definitely. I, so I was learning Spanish, I became very close with my host family and it was clear early on that there was this mutual love and I found out that my host mom had cancer and that was kind of traumatic because I was at a party with my host brother and he told me and it was just weird and then they had had a lot of drama around money and I knew I was a source of income for them and the relationship started to go in a way that was making me feel unconformable like they, I wasn’t going home for dinner because I was hanging out with friends and starting to build a life there and so they challenge was when I decided that I couldn’t live in their house anymore. Because it was no longer a place that I really felt comfortable, the relationship was just becoming off-balance. And it was hard because I was spending a lot of money to live there and when I found out that I could love somewhere for so much cheaper and have the freedom that I was craving I couldn’t pass it up, so it was a big challenge to tell them in the best Spanish that I could and then I left of like a ten-day trip and then I came back and I moved my stuff out and I and to leave, and I maintained a relationship with them after but it was really hard. Being able to explain it, feel a lot of sadness about it, and also know that I was affecting their lifestyle, like they were depending on that income.
RE: So, what did this challenge teach you about the people there? Or I don’t want to generalize but so what did this challenge I guess teach you about your host family and is that generalizable to Chileans or just in that region or whatever?
KC: I think that it’s—
RE: If that makes sense.
KC: Human nature. Yeah, I think that that’s just a product of…well think about culturally they were extremely open and really took me in as part of their family, like extended family. And I think that would be generalizable to the culture, very open and warm and part of that is because I look like them. That is, I’m, every place I am I have to, well now the point in time I am I recognize the privilege I recognize what it looks like to go in as a white female and be accepted without thinking twice about it. And in particular Chile is predominately white and their definitely some racist tendencies which I realized throughout my time there. So that becomes challenging to sit with and also be, I try and bring my best self forward and not everyone is aware, not everyone can be aware of what their culture is bringing to the table and how racism can be so blatant and what do you do when you’re just trying to get by.
RE: That makes sense.
KC: Yeah.
RE: And so, whether it be positive or negative what type of impact do you feel like you left on Chile?
KC: I mean it left a huge impact on me. I, what did I leave?
RE: Yeah. And even if it’s nothing, if that’s what you think.
KC: I mean on that, yeah, in particular that country I made a lot of friends. One friend that I made there, he and I met again this summer in São Paolo so I was there in 2010 so he and I met again now, in 2016. We hadn’t seen each other for six years and we were together the whole summer. He reminded me a lot of what my time was like in Chile and what Chile meant for me.
RE: To ask the question a little different, [00:25:19] in thinking of the relationships that you had in Chile, do you think that you imparted anything to people that you know there?
KC: Well (laugh) I have one friend that I meant there who wasn’t Chilean, he was Australian, who said that I was the first American girl that he met that he liked. Not romantically but that he could have a conversation with and not be turned completely turned off. And I was like ‘who have you been talking to?’ and it was fascinating how people have one or two interactions with a person form a country and then that person becomes a picture of the country for the, And I think with my host family they, we had a very loving, mutually-giving relationship until we didn’t, but during that time I still think very fondly of them. Same vice versa.
[00:26:28] RE: And so, to just end things off, thinking about what your Australian friend said to you what does that say about you? Whether as a woman, as a daughter, as a person, as an American, what does that comment say about you?
KC: (laugh) That I could have a conversation with him that was of some depth? He was a very deep thinker. He helped me challenge a lot of what my belief system was and pushed me to grow at a time when I was hugely vulnerable and growing in so many ways that for him to say that to me it just made me laugh and I just said ‘thank you, I hope you see me as a person, as an individual and not as an American girl.’ Right, and [00:27:42] that’s what I would hope for all my interactions, that I’m not just an American girl I’m an individual and that’s how we can interact, separate from our identities.
RE: Well yeah! Those are all of my questions (laugh) thank you so much, now at three thirty-four we are ending. [00:28:06]
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Estudiantes
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Kristina Caltabiano discute sobre sus experiencias internacionales y cómo estas han formado su identidad. Ella habla acerca de cómo la comunicación en español es fundamental para su identidad y sobre las dificultades de valorar un estilo de vida transitorio y al mismo tiempo desear un sentido de comunidad. Caltabiano hace comparaciones entre su familia ítalo-americana y las familias con las que ha pasado tiempo en América Latina. Ella también describe los momentos buenos y desafíos que enfrentó en América Latina, los cuales le ayudaron a transformarse. Caltabiano cierra la entrevista con comentarios acerca de la importancia de ser vista como una individua, con respecto a ser americana en el extranjero.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Kristina Caltabiano por Raina Enrique, 09 Marzo 2017, R-0864, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Identidad; Lenguaje y comunicación; Redes sociales
Es: Transcripción
[00:00:00] Raina Enrique: I’m Raina and I am doing a research project for GLOBAL 382. It is currently March ninth on a nice Thursday afternoon at three o’ three, and I am here with Kristina Caltabiano, who graciously agreed to be interviewed today. So, Kristina, how’re you doing?
Kristina Caltabiano: I’m doing well, thank you so much for having me.
RE: Yeah, thanks for coming. So, could you just start off by telling me about your experiences abroad?
KC: Sure! [00:00:35] I have had the privilege of being abroad quite a few times. My first experience abroad was actually a trip to Mexico with my grandfather and his wife. They took my brothers and I camping when I was fourteen, it was the first plane I ever took, we went camping in Arizona and we crossed the border to Mexico. So that was the first time I was abroad and I knew ‘this was amazing, this was so different, this was so cool.’ And after that I did a two week trip my freshman year in college: one week in Rome, one week in Paris. Two weeks, or two years later I did a semester in Europe: five weeks in Rome, five weeks in Paris, and five weeks in Salamanca, Spain. And my time in Spain really solidified the fact that I wanted to learn Spanish. I loved Spain, I loved the Spanish culture, and I knew how useful Spanish was in the states. After that, I had the opportunity to do another semester abroad because I had finished all of my required courses, and I decided to go to Chile, to Santiago, in Chile, to do a full semester. So, this was like: OK, I’m going to learn Spanish and I know what will happen because I have no other choice, and my classes were in Spanish. So that was my pre-undergrad experience abroad. And I also had a research grant to go to Vietnam, so this was very much through an educational experience and a lot of scholarship, and also it was incorporated within the tuition I was already paying so that is what enabled me to be able to go, because I did finance everything myself. So, after I graduated, I was looking for a volunteer experience that I didn’t have to pay for. It’s a lot you have to-- they won’t fund you-- and I heard about the Peace Corps and so I decided to apply my senior year of college. Actually, it was late in my senior year of college and the application process was over a year so during that year wait period I spent ten months in Spain during the wait period teaching English, and then after that I came back to the states for a few months and I nannied and I saved money and then February 2013 I left for Guatemala for my two-year Peace Corps service. And since then, I spent last summer in Brazil, doing-- studying Portuguese through a FLAS scholarship, and I will hopefully (I will find out tomorrow) but I may be doing a semester in Rio in the fall.
RE: That’s amazing!
KC: To solidify my Portuguese.
RE: (laugh) So, I have eight different things listed here where you’ve gone off abroad, that’s really impressive. So, what was your favorite part about being in these countries? So, given that there’s so many listed I would say pick three and just say just the best parts of each of those for you.
[00:03:55] KC: Sure, so for me, I have found that I feel a lot more like myself, a better, the best form of myself when I am in unfamiliar territory. And it might come with being out of my comfort zone, that that suits me well. Just the newness, the excitement, the—everything’s different than what I am used to and I do well with change, I really, it’s an environment that I thrive in and so three things that I love. I love experiencing what it’s like with local people and so that for me means food, the language, and I would say dress, but some may dress similarly to people here. But specifically, in Guatemala they dressed very differently and that was an exciting part of their culture
RE: That’s amazing! And so, you did touch on this a little bit, but if you could just expand: in what capacity did you interact with the locals of these places? So, [00:05:10] in what capacity did you interact with the locals of say, Mexico, when you just went to camp, versus, you know, when you were on a research grant in Vietnam?
KC: Every experience has been very different and I think that the amount of interaction with locals comes with spending a long time there. So, for example, going, crossing the border in Nogales to go to a Mexican restaurant when I was fourteen and I spoke like three words of Spanish, it was super touristy and my grandfather was really protective and I felt very naïve but still really fun I was like “wow this is so different” and they really put on a show because it’s a border town and so they had all the mariachis in the restaurant and all the vendors in the streets and all the cat-calling which was totally new. And then thinking about when we did the research project, we, my professor, had a lot of local contacts and so we got to go to this really, really, really cool outdoor restaurant-buffet-Sunday ceremony place. It was just a sprawl of food and people and picnic tables and very much a local event. And that was my, definitely a high of the trip for me. Was just doing what local people would be doing. And that, like in Guatemala, looked like going to the market every day and not, you know, having a fridge full of food like I might here. And that was sort of a ritual, it’s a ritual that they do: go out, get your food for your daily lunch, and then cook your lunch and have fruit on hand and then do it all again the next day. And that for me is, I love it, it’s so rewarding
RE: Have your interactions with local people, so then I guess like a more recent time you might want to pull on might be Guatemala, and it could be any of your abroad experiences, but have any of these interactions revealed to you anything with regards to identity? So, for example, you know, you might say Guatemalan identity is based in cooking lunch or whatever. So, is there anything that you might’ve picked up from any of these places?
KC: I would say in thinking about my identity as an individual I’m very much—like I identify as a second-language learner. Spanish is a very big part of my life and it’s funny, identity comes out when you start dating people and seeing what you’re looking for and seeing what I choose to talk about when you’re getting to know a person. And so much of that is [00:08:28] Spanish is so big for me in that it’s a gateway to this part of my life that I want to continue to explore. So Guatemala completely solidified that for me. And it’s not just the language of Spanish it’s all of the connections that come from it. So, connecting, being able to travel with relative ease which is again a huge privilege, to places that speak Spanish and be able to understand them and know what’s going on and make genuine connections with people, which is reciprocated, it’s very exciting for them it’s really exciting for me, and part of it is sometimes I like the high of it, which I have done a lot of reflecting on this. It’s like why do I continue to want to be outside of the country? Why did I continue to want to be anywhere, you know, anywhere in Latin America? It’s not one specific place it’s like just put me there and I’ll be fine and they’re all, every single country, every single community is so different from another but what they offer me and what I, the way I connect and feel alive is what keeps me going back
RE: The majority of times when you have almost typical Americans they rather be in their comfort zone. They rather not change, they rather just speak English like whatever, and so for you to just say that you feel most Kristina when you don’t have anything to do with America, do you know what I’m saying? That’s not exactly what you said, but that’s just so interesting …but also, I think a lot of times we do find who we are by being in an uncomfortable situation, and by seeing how do you react in it, what are the types of things you’re saying, you know? And so, for you to see that in yourself, and you’re young, you know, and to like see that already, it’s--
KC: I’m twenty-seven. So, yeah. It’s weird that, I mean I’m definitely the oldest in the class, obviously. Yeah, I mean I think it’s funny to hear from your perspective because from my perspective sometimes it’s scary, in a way that it’s like I don’t know why but I don’t. I love the people in my life here I love what I’m doing here. I value my friends and my family and I know I need, I won’t be here forever. So, accepting that transient life and not feeling particularly attached or like I need to be in one place, that’s not what does it for me.
RE: I almost feel like that might be a goal of our previous generation, to be settled.
KC: That we strive to be settled?
RE: Yeah.
KC: Yeah, I mean that’s something I’ve definitely been exploring and working on. Not like to get to a point where I want to be settled because that’s certainly not my goal but to be just embracing ‘this is where I’m at’ and I do know that I’ll be moving around and what does that look like for me at this point in my life. You know, what are the priorities? Like my priority right now is school and my priority after school would be finding a job, building a career, and so, twenty-seven, you know, you start to think ‘ok where does a partner fit into this? ‘Where would I meet someone if I’m?’—yeah – well I mean this is a real thing and it’s not something that’s a concern at this point in time, and I have my own agenda so it’s thinking, just being aware of it. [00:12:45] Don’t, you know, set myself up in a way that won’t be a few months here, a few months there, a few months there, because that doesn’t build any community for me and community is a big thing that I need in my life. Whether it be a, what’s it called, a remote community, people that I feel connected to via skype and phone calls which is what I’ve done over the years. Have my solid people that have been with me here and here and here via phone conversations
RE: Thank you so much for that. So just to back track just a tiny bit. In regards to identity, do you see any parallels in the most salient aspects of your identity to those of say, Guatemala, or wherever else you might want to compare, or Spain- you spent a lot of time there too. So maybe a sense of valuing transiency or a sense of community or family; are there any strong parallels with other communities that you see?
KC: No, I would say actually the direct opposite and that [00:14:12] the communities that I’ve lived in are so grounded and don’t really leave where they are- that is the most comforting for me. So, when you said ‘do you feel any connection’ like identity with those communities, I immediately thought of my aunts and uncles who I would say for a while were global citizens. Very much traveling, very much abroad, moving around. When I think of my identity I think of my grandmother was an immigrant from Italy, and so there’s- I have a huge Italian family on my dad’s side and that’s very much a part of my identity that is big family, the loud family entered around food and lots of kids running around and that for me is very comforting and that’s something that I find often- I found in Guatemala I really experienced some in Brazil that whole centered around family that’s very important for me and then on the other side my mom’s side of the family they were all travelers and she was one of seven and my mom was the oldest and she was the one that stayed. She didn’t really travel a lot, she got married and had kids while her younger brothers and sisters were off traveling, off doing their adventures and when I was young so that was the role- they were the role models for me. And they used to give me spoons and all the countries that they went to and I have this massive spoon collection (laugh) from all these countries in Asia and all over the world and I didn’t understand it when I was that young but I have this weird spoon collection that’s actually pretty cool
RE: That’s something to say for icebreakers you know, I don’t know if you do this in grad school but.
KC: () Two truths and a lie: ‘I have a spoon collection.’ And it got so big because my mom would get me a case for it, we had to buy a second case for it and I think my mom has it somewhere.
RE: And it’s not in your house? (laugh)
KC: No, I don’t have any room for that.
RE: Wow, so [pause] (laugh) I’m really still thinking about all of these spoons on the wall. Could you tell me a bit about, if any, some of the biggest challenges that you faced while…yeah, well I’m kind of jumping around because you answered this question. Let me just kind of stay in order. Basically, my first question was going to be “is there one country in particular that you feel like shaped you more so than the others?” and from previous responses I’m getting the feel that it might have been Guatemala?
KC: (shakes head no).
RE: No? So, then what is it?
[00:17:19] KC: If I were to choose the country that shaped me, I would say that my time in Chile was the most formative because it was the first time I was abroad completely by myself. The previous, my sophomore when I did the semester abroad, it was with a cohort from St. Johns, from my school, and we all were together. We were in a dorm with all English-speaking students, all of our classes were in English and in my rime when I did the semester in Santiago I got dropped off, I walked off the plane, a host family picked me up, I didn’t speak any Spanish I didn’t know anyone , I…it was crazy and I look back on it and I think ‘wow yeah that’s why it was so formative because I had to learn Spanish, all of my classes were in Spanish, my host family didn’t speak English.’ And I made a couple English-speaking friends and they were two European girls and it was the first time that I wasn’t around Americans at all. It was so nice (laugh) it was so refreshing.
RE: I could imagine. (laugh)
KC: I didn’t realize it until the end of my time there when I went on a trip and I was around other Americans and I was thinking ‘man this has been nice!’ They were speaking in acronyms, these three girls, I’ll never forget. They were on their phones the whole time, they were speaking in acronyms. What have I been missing, you know? So, I-- and I started, I learned Spanish there. And so, coming back from that experience I went to Spain and that was like ‘ok my Spanish is getting better but I feel fine’ and I got to Guatemala and I could communicate perfectly, I was really confident where I was at that place in time with myself and where a lot of people, the two years in peace corps is hugely formative, whereas for me it was more…
RE: …solidifying?
KC: Yeah, solidifying. That I, this is where I, this is what I wanted to do with my life, this is what I wanted to pursue in grad school based on the work I did, it was more career-enriching as opposed to, and it was certainly personally enriching, but it wasn’t transformative. I was already, the transformation or huge growing peak had already, I had already done that.
[00:19:52] RE: So, with that, could you tell me about your biggest challenges that you faced in Chile? And so, I know you kind of touched on a few things but is there one specific thing, one specific scene that you’re like ‘ok, this is hard’ and you didn’t have to have overcome it, I’m just curious. (laugh)
KC: Yeah, definitely. I, so I was learning Spanish, I became very close with my host family and it was clear early on that there was this mutual love and I found out that my host mom had cancer and that was kind of traumatic because I was at a party with my host brother and he told me and it was just weird and then they had had a lot of drama around money and I knew I was a source of income for them and the relationship started to go in a way that was making me feel unconformable like they, I wasn’t going home for dinner because I was hanging out with friends and starting to build a life there and so they challenge was when I decided that I couldn’t live in their house anymore. Because it was no longer a place that I really felt comfortable, the relationship was just becoming off-balance. And it was hard because I was spending a lot of money to live there and when I found out that I could love somewhere for so much cheaper and have the freedom that I was craving I couldn’t pass it up, so it was a big challenge to tell them in the best Spanish that I could and then I left of like a ten-day trip and then I came back and I moved my stuff out and I and to leave, and I maintained a relationship with them after but it was really hard. Being able to explain it, feel a lot of sadness about it, and also know that I was affecting their lifestyle, like they were depending on that income.
RE: So, what did this challenge teach you about the people there? Or I don’t want to generalize but so what did this challenge I guess teach you about your host family and is that generalizable to Chileans or just in that region or whatever?
KC: I think that it’s—
RE: If that makes sense.
KC: Human nature. Yeah, I think that that’s just a product of…well think about culturally they were extremely open and really took me in as part of their family, like extended family. And I think that would be generalizable to the culture, very open and warm and part of that is because I look like them. That is, I’m, every place I am I have to, well now the point in time I am I recognize the privilege I recognize what it looks like to go in as a white female and be accepted without thinking twice about it. And in particular Chile is predominately white and their definitely some racist tendencies which I realized throughout my time there. So that becomes challenging to sit with and also be, I try and bring my best self forward and not everyone is aware, not everyone can be aware of what their culture is bringing to the table and how racism can be so blatant and what do you do when you’re just trying to get by.
RE: That makes sense.
KC: Yeah.
RE: And so, whether it be positive or negative what type of impact do you feel like you left on Chile?
KC: I mean it left a huge impact on me. I, what did I leave?
RE: Yeah. And even if it’s nothing, if that’s what you think.
KC: I mean on that, yeah, in particular that country I made a lot of friends. One friend that I made there, he and I met again this summer in São Paolo so I was there in 2010 so he and I met again now, in 2016. We hadn’t seen each other for six years and we were together the whole summer. He reminded me a lot of what my time was like in Chile and what Chile meant for me.
RE: To ask the question a little different, [00:25:19] in thinking of the relationships that you had in Chile, do you think that you imparted anything to people that you know there?
KC: Well (laugh) I have one friend that I meant there who wasn’t Chilean, he was Australian, who said that I was the first American girl that he met that he liked. Not romantically but that he could have a conversation with and not be turned completely turned off. And I was like ‘who have you been talking to?’ and it was fascinating how people have one or two interactions with a person form a country and then that person becomes a picture of the country for the, And I think with my host family they, we had a very loving, mutually-giving relationship until we didn’t, but during that time I still think very fondly of them. Same vice versa.
[00:26:28] RE: And so, to just end things off, thinking about what your Australian friend said to you what does that say about you? Whether as a woman, as a daughter, as a person, as an American, what does that comment say about you?
KC: (laugh) That I could have a conversation with him that was of some depth? He was a very deep thinker. He helped me challenge a lot of what my belief system was and pushed me to grow at a time when I was hugely vulnerable and growing in so many ways that for him to say that to me it just made me laugh and I just said ‘thank you, I hope you see me as a person, as an individual and not as an American girl.’ Right, and [00:27:42] that’s what I would hope for all my interactions, that I’m not just an American girl I’m an individual and that’s how we can interact, separate from our identities.
RE: Well yeah! Those are all of my questions (laugh) thank you so much, now at three thirty-four we are ending. [00:28:06]
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
Dublin Core
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Title
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R-0864 -- Caltabiano, Kristina.
Description
An account of the resource
Kristina Caltabiano discusses her international experiences and how they have all shaped her identity. She talks about how central speaking Spanish is to her identity, and the battle present in valuing a transient lifestyle but also wanting a sense of community. Caltabiano makes comparisons between her Italian-American family to the families she has spent time with in Latin America, and goes on to describe the ways the good times and challenges she faced in Latin America has transformed her. Caltabiano closes the interview with remarks about how important it is for her to be seen as an individual, with regards to being and American abroad.
Source
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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
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09 March 2017
Format
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R0864_Audio.mp3
Publisher
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<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27403">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/94d9978c1f2479aecdc62c4adb4da909.mp3
de00dcf9f879324558580502e1f46447
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/c645cb593d939e33e3256995052a726f.pdf
f0e84443457583cd29493f11fa737445
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0865
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
18 April 2017
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Hayes, Madison.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Directors
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1986
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Durham -- North Carolina -- United States
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Durham -- Durham County -- North Carolina
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Madison Hayes is the Executive Director of the Refugee Community Partnership in Carrboro, North Carolina. She explains her background in nonprofit and human rights work, both internationally and locally. Hayes discusses the history of power dynamics in service relationships and in research. She describes the formation of the Refugee Community Partnership and emphasizes their focus on building mutual and reciprocal relationships as the basis of their work. Hayes describes many of the goals that newly resettled families have and many of the obstacles to these goals that they face. She also emphasizes the importance of creating an open dialogue around these issues within the non-immigrant or refugee communities. Hayes also discusses the social and institutional impacts of recent US policy changes with respect to refugees.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Madison Hayes by Claire Weintraub, 18 April 2017, R-0865, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27400
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Community and social services and programs; Receiving Communities; Social Networks
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Claire Weintraub: Alright, I’m Claire Weintraub and I’m here with Madison Hayes. It is April 18, 2017 and we are in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Do I have your permission to record this interview?
Madison Hayes: Yes.
CW: Alright, thank you. Today I want to talk to you about your work with the Refugee Community Partnership and the work that the organization does to gain more insight into the role of nonprofits in working with the immigrant and refugee communities in the area. So to start, can you just tell me a little bit about yourself and your background?
MH: My personal background?
CW: Personal or work background.
MH: Okay sure, let’s see. When I—I first got started kind of in the nonprofit world when I was in college and started working for an HIV/AIDS international NGO that was doing work in Kenya. And that kind of cracked open my, I think, self-education journey about kind of the historical legacy that Americans, particularly white Americans, have in carrying out what we call kind of humanitarian aid. And while those efforts are really well intended, they can have adverse consequences. And anyway fast-forward some years, I got a grant from my university that I was at to work with another nonprofit in Argentina and did some work down there. And the project down there—I was going to help setup a kind of meal kitchen in a really very rural, kind of below poverty line village on the outskirts of Cordoba, Argentina. And when I got there, I hadn’t yet really examined or critiqued my motivations for wanting to be there and realized very quickly that I was under these, again good intentioned, but very much self-interest of ‘I want to help. I have information and knowledge and resources to provide that these people need.’ All of that you know very savior, paternalistic mindset. And when I got there it was a really formative experience because the project that I wound up working on was setting up this meal kitchen, but I wound up putting myself in a position where I was just kind of the labor hand and following the lead of this coalition of mothers from the village who had their plans already in place and had a vision for what this looked like and had all of the decision-making capabilities and power. And I realized very quickly that the role of the nonprofit that I was working with—our job was to follow their lead and gain access to the resources, particularly as westerners, that we can to kind of funnel their way so that they can build the vision that they already have. And anyway fast-forward some more years and I worked as a farm-labor hand in Central America for a while and learned more about farm labor rights and particular farm labor exploitation and the relationship between Costa Rica and Nicaragua and wound up—and moved back here. And when I moved back here I started working with a nonprofit called the Orange County Partnership for Young Children and I was working on some food sovereignty projects, predominantly with Spanish-speaking communities here in Carrboro. And then a few years later after that, I joined the board of the Carrboro-Chapel Hill Human Rights Center who at that time worked primarily with Spanish-speaking communities in Carrboro as well. And for my paid work I got back into HIV/AIDS work through UNC and started doing HIV/AIDS research. A few years later down the line, I was offered the Executive Director Position of the Community Engagement Division of the Center for AIDS Research at UNC. And in that position, I worked to kind of build maybe healthier—that might not be the best work, but healthier relationships—collaborative relationships and partnerships between researchers and researched communities. And there’s a—this all kind of dovetails with the beginning of my self-critique of what aid and service and helping actually entails. And now applying this to the research world—as research folks we have a long history of kind of going into communities, right—so as people not a part of these researched communities. We observe a problem, we develop a solution, we decide how to get the resources and what resources we need. We decide how those resources are allocated. And then we go into said community and we extract data, in effect—right, the intention is that we are doing this for public good, but we have to ask ourselves what it feel like to be a community and see usually pretty affluent people coming in and saying “this is for the good of you and your family and your community.” And essentially extracting data that we get a pretty good salary for doing and the socioeconomic conditions of the communities from which that data came—their conditions never change. So there’s a pattern here of the relationships between institutions and the communities that they claim to serve. And I say this fully out of self-critique because the Refugee Community Partnership, we are a nonprofit and if there is anyone that is leading the charge in this kind of paternalism and being outside of a community and developing a program that nobody asked for, it’s us—it’s the nonprofit sector. And I think it’s really important that as nonprofit organizations, we develop a healthy self-critique. So, in—when I was serving on the board of the Carrboro-Chapel Hill Human Rights Center, the Orange County Health Department and the UNC School of Public Health published a community assessment on the growing refugee population in Carrboro-Chapel Hill. And at that time, there was really no refugee support organizations or agencies. If you need to do stuff, do stuff—
CW: I just wanted to make sure the time was on there, but we’re good.
MH: Cool, cool, cool. And cut me off whenever.
CW: No, no. Please keep talking.
MH: Hey [directed at another person]. So, at that time there were little to no refugee support efforts going on and I, as a board member of the Human Rights Center, read this report. A couple of other board members read this report and concerned about the kind of growing distance between local refugee communities and the resources and services that they really need in order to kind of gain a foothold here, spent about a year just getting to know a lot of the refugee folks that live in this area and wanted to first understand if—get the kind of qualitative, [door opens and closes] not qualitative, but the anecdotal stories that produce sort of data statistics that were covered in this report. But more importantly to build relationships. And that came—that was a very deliberate effort because as a group we talked a lot about this pattern of nonprofit organizations, again observing needs and developing solutions absent of the voices and the leadership of the communities that we’re claiming to serve. And ultimately wind up creating services and programs that kind of maintain the status quo and particularly maintain the power dynamics between institutions and the communities that that institution serves. So, for example in a service-based relationship, there’s a provider and there’s a recipient. And whatever that provider has, whether it’s service or it’s a resource or it’s information, the nature of the relationship—the power in unidirectional. I’m the person who has the resources or the service or the information that you need and my job is to give it you and your job is to receive it. And all good intentions here, but it’s important I think for us to think about what it feels like over the course of time to be constantly in a role receiving something from other people and not being recognized as having something to give back, to provide as well. So, from the very beginning stages we dreamt about an organization that was totally based around mutual and reciprocal relationships, where support isn’t being provided, it’s actually co-created. [door opens and closes] That and these typical service provision relationships, where there’s a provider and the recipient—both are both. The provider of support or resource or whatever or information is also the recipient whatever the other person has to give, whether that’s friendship or that’s cultural learnings or gosh, food or celebrations—invitations to participate in community events and family celebrations. And recognizing that those things—to get to be included in that kind of—to be welcomed in that kind of environment, is just as valuable as whatever service you are providing. So, we very much constructed the Refugee Community Partnership out of kind of a shared critique of nonprofit organizations, including a critique of ourselves. Fortunately, over time we’ve kind of embedded this as a practice among staff and volunteers to really check ourselves and how we’re carrying out our work. And, yeah the rest is kind of history. I worked, yeah, at UNC as the director of that engagement division until about a year ago and left and came on as the Executive Director of the Refugee Community Partnership back in October.
CW: So when you’re trying to build these relationships with the communities you work with, what is the process of that relationship building actually look like? Or, how do you initiate that sort of initial contact and relationship building?
MH: Yeah. So, because we invested about a year of building relationships with local refugee communities, now fast-forward we just naturally are kind of embedded. So we are good friends with a lot of the folks who are community leaders with the local refugee populations and they play a staff role in the organization. Our program growth is—while we have some referral partners, most of our program growth comes from referrals coming from participants, So, they’re talking to their neighbors and tell them about the Refugee Community Partnership and they get involved and then they’re talking to their cousin’s niece and tell them and then blah, blah. So then growth—program growth is a natural extension of the relationships that are built. So that relation building becomes a vehicle for recruitment—you know what would typically—what most programs would call recruitment for program growth. We have—we hold regular feedback sessions with all the participants—participating families in the Refugee Community Partnership where we report back to them and say “these were the kind of outcomes we’re seeing out of our programs lately,” and get folks reflections and feedback on that. And we’re saying “these are the resources that have come into the organization recently. This is how we think they should be allocated,” and get their feedback on that so that the participants in the programs and the organization are the governing body of the organization and we’re really following their voices of leadership. And so going back to when I was speaking earlier about my original volunteer project in Argentina—about the moms and starting the meal kitchen, it’s like that. I’m kind of perceiving our job as using the channels of access that we have as a nonprofit organization, as well-resourced people and incredibly privileged individuals, but deliberately leveraging the resources and the access and the privilege that we have to garner the resources that refugee communities need in order to get to where they want to go. And that brings us to this concept of power and there’s another—there are great conversations going on today in the nonprofit world, and have been for many, many years—these conversations have been going for a very long time—long preceding me and my ancestors [laughs]. But, about how nonprofit organizations maintain the status quo. And that’s because a lot of our programs and services are developed around addressing the symptoms of root causes instead of the root causes themselves. And when you start to understand how power structures work in this country—that structures of advantage—yeah power structures are constructed to either fast track you to access, opportunity, and privilege or they’re designed to oppress and marginalize you. And so if we’re talking about actually—if we’re ready to have an honest conversation about what actually relieving these social problems means, it means talking about power. So we incorporate that into our volunteer training. We incorporate that into our staff and board trainings, so that at an—on a program, staff, and organizational—all of those levels, we’re incorporating these self-critiques and these conversations about power, structural oppression, systemic poverty, things like that so we don’t get kind of lulled into the ease of just addressing symptoms and opting out of the hard work of actually addressing the root problems. Totally went off on a tangent. We were talking about relationships. But, in terms of the relationship building too—our volunteers are really trained around this concept of mutual and reciprocal relationships. We’re really trying to buck this notion of charity and so for example, we have volunteers that work one-on-one with a refugee family and the family—we use a goal setting process, the family and the volunteers together. The family identifies what their short and long term goals are and together they and the volunteers kind of develop a customized work plan of how to achieve those goals. And if it’s a short term goal, it might be a three week long work plan and if it’s a long term goal it might be a three year long work plan. And these are long term relationships, so they’re working together for the long haul. And really the volunteers’ role in that is to kind of be the gatherers of the resources and information that that family needs to get to where they want to go. And similarly, the volunteer sets their own goals of what they want to learn. And so that can be, “I want to learn two new words in your language every week,” or, “I want to learn how to make a traditional dish from your culture.” [water running] And thereby we’re hardwiring the relationship to be one of reciprocity. And the relationships are overwhelmingly the most transformative aspect of our work. It’s amazing what kind of mutual support can be created when a relationship moves from a transactional one, where I’m providing something that I think you need—[background noise] It moves from that transaction to one of mutual support and reciprocity, then you get into social companionship. And that—I mean social companionship and those kind of relationships—they outlive any kind of program or nonprofit. Yeah.
CW: Great, so could you talk a little bit about the specific demographics of the refugee population in the area that you work with or maybe how those demographics have changed over time?
MH: Yeah, yeah so the majority of forcibly displaced people that have been resettled to Carrboro-Chapel Hill are from Burma [talking in background] and—largely from Burma and then Thailand and Malaysia as well. And Carrboro-Chapel Hill is a relatively new resettlement area [door opening and slamming] starting probably about ten years ago and up until even about two years ago, largely folks from Burma and Thailand. There’s been a growing number of folks resettled here from the Congo, some from Iraq and Afghanistan and then more recently, a growing number of folks from Syria. And looking ahead, the resettlement numbers are projected such that most of the folks resettled here will be from Syria, the Congo, and Iraq.
CW: And you talked earlier about [background noise] the process of goal setting you use. What are some of the most common goals that the newly resettled families have when they first arrive?
MH: Yeah, so overwhelmingly families want academic support for their kids. Even the parents who might be having a hard time finding work or just covering basic financial expenses, overwhelmingly their top priority is academic support for their kids. You talk to any family that has gone through the refugee resettlement process, which is a really often times traumatizing, very—it’s a really hard, hard journey. It’s a really hard journey. And almost every single family will tell you it’s because they want better opportunities for their kids and whatever hardship they have to go through in order to make that happen, they’ll do it. And so that’s usually on the list—that’s usually at the top of the list of families’ goals. But the other pressing ones are finding employment or finding better employment. So not speaking English and most folks arrive here without documentation of their past [background noise] work history or educational history. And a lot of folks back in their home countries were engineers or incredibly skilled tradespeople or teachers or organization directors, but don’t—but their skillsets or their educational background or their vocational background may not be considered legitimate in the eyes of the institutions here in this country. And so often times the only employment that is available to folks is low wage labor and often times that’s like eight dollars an hour. So parents just to cover basic financial expenses for a family of five often times have to work two or three jobs—work 90 hours a week. And when you do that you don’t have time to participate in ESL classes. And often times these low wage jobs are working in isolation. So for example a lot of folks work in the housekeeping department at UNC and the way that that kind of work looks is you’re assigned a section of a building and that’s what you work on for the next nine hours and you don’t get much interaction with other English speakers, more less in an educational environment. So people are—face a great deal of barriers to being able to improve their English skills quickly enough to access good employment and that can last for many, many, many years. And when that happens, then folks fall quickly into poverty and it’s really hard to get out of poverty once you’re in it. National data shows that amongst refugee populations for folks who are able to transition out of poverty, the average time to do that is 13-20 years. So life can be really hard. So, one of our—just knowing that—knowing the factors that cause systemic poverty, as an organization we always have most of our conversations center around employment. And for folks who had a skilled vocation back home and they want to get back to that vocation, then that would the long term goal. And that’s when we would set out a work plan that’s studded with benchmarks. So, if somebody was a plumber back in Syria and want to get back into that vocation here then we would set plumbing—being a plumber as the long term goal and then working backwards from there. So being a plumber—what certification do you need to be a plumber? So creating kind of a customized pathway to getting that certification. In order to participate in the classes that give you that certification, what level of English do you have to have? Okay so now that’ll illuminate the pathway toward English learning that we need in order to achieve this long term goal and so on and so forth. [sneeze in background] Housing is another big one. Affordable housing options are very limited in this area and they’re dwindling quickly and a lot of families are getting priced out of the only affordable housing options that there are here. So we do a lot of work around that as well. Some short term goals would be, finding an ESL class that’s happening at the time that I don’t have to work and if that doesn’t exist then we train our volunteers to provide English instruction one-on-one in folks’ homes—in their homes. And a lot of times is it’s providing that academic support, so not just maybe tutoring daily homework help, but actually being kind of like the academic liaison for the family between the school and the family. Because parents not speaking English have a really hard time engaging with their kids’ school. And even little things like, “gosh, my kid is sick today—throwing up, can’t go to school.” Even making that phone call to their teacher to tell them that is impossible if you don’t speak English, because not even a matter of having the conversation with the teacher, but most school systems have an automated voice system—automated line where you press one to go to the directory or press two to blah, blah, blah. And if you don’t speak English you can’t do that. So, being that academic liaison between the school and the family is a job that a lot—a role that a lot of our volunteers play. [running water] Yeah.
CW: I’m curious what kind of work, if any if this is part of what you do, you do to raise awareness amongst the non-refugee or immigrant population about these issues or challenged that the refugee population faces.
MH: Yeah, we’re—we do [background noise] we do that a lot. We have that—that is kind of our dual mission is to, while doing this relationship-centered support work and real community building, the other part of that mission is to grow the—grow a community of non-refugee people who are simultaneously developing a curiosity about these concepts and similarly developing a good practice of self-critique around things like power and structural oppression and service delivery and all of these approaches that are kind of like the standard for providing support or helping people. So yeah we—you know opportunities that if we’re doing a newspaper interview or news channel or invited to give a talk at a local congregation or even just talking for a few minutes to a student group, always trying to use those as opportunities to usher in these concepts and talk about these concepts.
CW: And from your experience are people for the most part pretty receptive to this or have you experienced any sort of resistance to these ideas?
MH: Yeah, for the most part it’s all been pretty well received. That said we’re talking about audiences who have—who want to hear from us and so we’re invited into the space. I think if we were to just show up somewhere uninvited and start spouting off criticisms that wouldn’t be so well received. This is also really good practice as an organization in how you be a steward of kind of community values. And, it’s really easy to go into—be talking with a group of people and spout criticisms. It’s much harder to get that same kind of critiquing conversation going, but more I think it’s worth the investment to figure out how to do that in a very approachable and palatable way. So for me personally, when I talk about these concepts I use “we” language. I always include myself in talking about this stuff and this is also kind of a rule for community organizing work. I do—I work—I do racial equity work with folks in this area and that’s something that we talk about—me as a white person, and trying to organize other white people around anti-racism work or racial equity work—is you always talk about your own racism when talking about other people or general—general racism. And that way you can be more—you’re making the concept more palatable, but you’re also encouraging self-reflection and that way you’re kind of—you’re keeping the doors open, whereas when we start spouting criticisms, it closes doors for people more quickly than anything. [talking in the background] So, this is all—these are the kind of strategies that we use to have these public conversations [clatter in background] that overall are also in this dual purpose mission of developing a community of people who are thinking critically about these things and self-critique. Yeah.
CW: So I wanted to ask you a little bit about sort of the policy-level of things. Obviously with this last election cycle and new administration, there’s been a lot of changes in not only the rhetoric surrounding immigrant and refugee populations, but actual policy changes as well. I’m wondering how that has affected the work you do either with the refugee communities or within this more educational outreach type stuff.
MH: Yeah so speaking to kind of like the direct effects of policy changes, the executive order that was—refugee-related executive order that was passed drastically cut funding to the resettlement agencies. So, historically the resettlement agencies are federally contracted and they’re the ones who transport—let’s say a refugee family from their country of origin to the United States and then they’re contracted to provide support to refugee individuals for two months here—two to three months. And, so since that executive order was passed, they lost a huge funding stream and some of them are looking at making pretty serious staff cuts—having to make pretty serious staff cuts. A couple of our local ones have already reduced their bench of staff and so they’re feeling the financial consequences of that pretty seriously and while they’re working hard to, I think, turn fundraising efforts towards more local sources, it’s illuminated for a lot of us the critical importance of community-based efforts. Because we feel like if we invest time and energy into cultivating local financial support for local efforts, that will create a more sustainable model that can weather changes in federal policy and that can weather changes in grant-making funding streams. So, I think how’s that’s directly impacted us—the week that that executive order was passed, a few—our Refugee Community Partnership and other refugee support organizations and the resettlement agencies had a number of conversations and some of those conversations centered around how us community-based organizations can grow our internal capacity—be able to fill the gaps that are starting to materialize as a result of this slash to federal funding to the resettlement agencies. So, yeah that’s one of the direct effects of the policy itself. One of the more social—some of the social impacts from these policy changes is that refugee folks are acutely aware of the growing sociopolitical hostility that’s given the greenlight to be more public now. And the way—and that’s generating a great deal of fear. And the way that that manifests and the way that that affects even socioeconomically daily life is folks are now afraid to submit that job application to that employer that they really wanted to get a job with or they’re afraid to call the social services agency and follow up on their food stamps application to see where it is in the process, because for fear of drawing more attention to their citizenship status. And so this is having serious consequences on peoples’—on the structural factors that govern daily life. Yeah.
CW: So what, if anything, do you think can be done on a community level to address that more social aspect of it and that fear that they feel?
MH: Yeah so a lot of—so some area nonprofit organizations are kind of doubling down on their practice of convening the communities that they work with and that they have relationships with on a regular basis to have just candid conversations about this stuff, to be able to answer questions, to be able to have—to be able to air grievances, to be able to create spaces where people can express their concerns and those be heard. So, I think there’s work going on around that and for example the day after the refugee-related executive order was passed, at RCP we scrambled real quick [laughs] and within a matter of eight hours organized a potluck joy event where we just decided that if one of the intentions of these policy changes is to instill this fear and to kind of break the human spirit, then joy is an act of resistance. So, we called all the families that we work with and we just threw a big old picnic at a local park and had music and arts and crafts and painting and games and just hung out together for a few hours just to kind of carve out space where we could all just breathe [laughs] in the face of what feels like a daily onslaught of fear and threat. Yeah.
CW: Well, thank you so much. I think those are the main questions I have for you. Is there anything else you’d like to add or sort of closing statement type thing?
MH: I think—so the theme of this conversation I think is the role that community-based nonprofits play in the general landscape of supportive work with immigrant and refugee communities. And I think—I think when we center our work around relationships—around the kind of relationships that we were talking about earlier [background noise] and moving those relationships from transactional ones to long term companionship where—that are grounded in the priorities—the changing priorities of the communities that we work with, I think the benefits that come from that, they are—there are a multitude of them and they far—they extend far beyond the kind of quote-on-quote measurable outcomes that nonprofits are supposed to measure their impact by. And in that respect, I think community-based organizations play a really, really critical role—a really critical one and I think we will—I look forward to this process of all of us developing a healthy habit of self-critique and yeah—and I’m glad there are more conversations like these going on. So thanks.
CW: Thank you.
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Directores
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Madison Hayes es la directora ejecutiva del Refugee Community Partnership en Carrboro, Carolina del Norte. Ella explica su experiencia con las organizaciones sin fines de lucro y trabajo con derechos humanos, tanto a nivel internacional como local. Hayes discute sobre la historia de la dinámica de poder en relaciones de servicio y la investigación. Describe la creación del Refugee Community Partnership y enfatiza su enfoque en la creación de relaciones mutuas y recíprocas como base de su trabajo. Hayes describe muchas de las metas de familias recientemente reubicadas y muchos de los obstáculos que enfrentan. También enfatiza la importancia de crear un diálogo abierto sobre estos asuntos dentro de las comunidades de no inmigrantes o refugiados. Hayes también discute sobre los impactos institucionales y sociales de cambios políticos en los Estados Unidos con respecto a los refugiados.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Madison Hayes por Claire Weintraub, 18 Abril 2017, R-0865, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Programas y servicios sociales y comunitarios; Comunidades receptoras; Redes sociales
Es: Transcripción
Claire Weintraub: Alright, I’m Claire Weintraub and I’m here with Madison Hayes. It is April 18, 2017 and we are in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Do I have your permission to record this interview?
Madison Hayes: Yes.
CW: Alright, thank you. Today I want to talk to you about your work with the Refugee Community Partnership and the work that the organization does to gain more insight into the role of nonprofits in working with the immigrant and refugee communities in the area. So to start, can you just tell me a little bit about yourself and your background?
MH: My personal background?
CW: Personal or work background.
MH: Okay sure, let’s see. When I—I first got started kind of in the nonprofit world when I was in college and started working for an HIV/AIDS international NGO that was doing work in Kenya. And that kind of cracked open my, I think, self-education journey about kind of the historical legacy that Americans, particularly white Americans, have in carrying out what we call kind of humanitarian aid. And while those efforts are really well intended, they can have adverse consequences. And anyway fast-forward some years, I got a grant from my university that I was at to work with another nonprofit in Argentina and did some work down there. And the project down there—I was going to help setup a kind of meal kitchen in a really very rural, kind of below poverty line village on the outskirts of Cordoba, Argentina. And when I got there, I hadn’t yet really examined or critiqued my motivations for wanting to be there and realized very quickly that I was under these, again good intentioned, but very much self-interest of ‘I want to help. I have information and knowledge and resources to provide that these people need.’ All of that you know very savior, paternalistic mindset. And when I got there it was a really formative experience because the project that I wound up working on was setting up this meal kitchen, but I wound up putting myself in a position where I was just kind of the labor hand and following the lead of this coalition of mothers from the village who had their plans already in place and had a vision for what this looked like and had all of the decision-making capabilities and power. And I realized very quickly that the role of the nonprofit that I was working with—our job was to follow their lead and gain access to the resources, particularly as westerners, that we can to kind of funnel their way so that they can build the vision that they already have. And anyway fast-forward some more years and I worked as a farm-labor hand in Central America for a while and learned more about farm labor rights and particular farm labor exploitation and the relationship between Costa Rica and Nicaragua and wound up—and moved back here. And when I moved back here I started working with a nonprofit called the Orange County Partnership for Young Children and I was working on some food sovereignty projects, predominantly with Spanish-speaking communities here in Carrboro. And then a few years later after that, I joined the board of the Carrboro-Chapel Hill Human Rights Center who at that time worked primarily with Spanish-speaking communities in Carrboro as well. And for my paid work I got back into HIV/AIDS work through UNC and started doing HIV/AIDS research. A few years later down the line, I was offered the Executive Director Position of the Community Engagement Division of the Center for AIDS Research at UNC. And in that position, I worked to kind of build maybe healthier—that might not be the best work, but healthier relationships—collaborative relationships and partnerships between researchers and researched communities. And there’s a—this all kind of dovetails with the beginning of my self-critique of what aid and service and helping actually entails. And now applying this to the research world—as research folks we have a long history of kind of going into communities, right—so as people not a part of these researched communities. We observe a problem, we develop a solution, we decide how to get the resources and what resources we need. We decide how those resources are allocated. And then we go into said community and we extract data, in effect—right, the intention is that we are doing this for public good, but we have to ask ourselves what it feel like to be a community and see usually pretty affluent people coming in and saying “this is for the good of you and your family and your community.” And essentially extracting data that we get a pretty good salary for doing and the socioeconomic conditions of the communities from which that data came—their conditions never change. So there’s a pattern here of the relationships between institutions and the communities that they claim to serve. And I say this fully out of self-critique because the Refugee Community Partnership, we are a nonprofit and if there is anyone that is leading the charge in this kind of paternalism and being outside of a community and developing a program that nobody asked for, it’s us—it’s the nonprofit sector. And I think it’s really important that as nonprofit organizations, we develop a healthy self-critique. So, in—when I was serving on the board of the Carrboro-Chapel Hill Human Rights Center, the Orange County Health Department and the UNC School of Public Health published a community assessment on the growing refugee population in Carrboro-Chapel Hill. And at that time, there was really no refugee support organizations or agencies. If you need to do stuff, do stuff—
CW: I just wanted to make sure the time was on there, but we’re good.
MH: Cool, cool, cool. And cut me off whenever.
CW: No, no. Please keep talking.
MH: Hey [directed at another person]. So, at that time there were little to no refugee support efforts going on and I, as a board member of the Human Rights Center, read this report. A couple of other board members read this report and concerned about the kind of growing distance between local refugee communities and the resources and services that they really need in order to kind of gain a foothold here, spent about a year just getting to know a lot of the refugee folks that live in this area and wanted to first understand if—get the kind of qualitative, [door opens and closes] not qualitative, but the anecdotal stories that produce sort of data statistics that were covered in this report. But more importantly to build relationships. And that came—that was a very deliberate effort because as a group we talked a lot about this pattern of nonprofit organizations, again observing needs and developing solutions absent of the voices and the leadership of the communities that we’re claiming to serve. And ultimately wind up creating services and programs that kind of maintain the status quo and particularly maintain the power dynamics between institutions and the communities that that institution serves. So, for example in a service-based relationship, there’s a provider and there’s a recipient. And whatever that provider has, whether it’s service or it’s a resource or it’s information, the nature of the relationship—the power in unidirectional. I’m the person who has the resources or the service or the information that you need and my job is to give it you and your job is to receive it. And all good intentions here, but it’s important I think for us to think about what it feels like over the course of time to be constantly in a role receiving something from other people and not being recognized as having something to give back, to provide as well. So, from the very beginning stages we dreamt about an organization that was totally based around mutual and reciprocal relationships, where support isn’t being provided, it’s actually co-created. [door opens and closes] That and these typical service provision relationships, where there’s a provider and the recipient—both are both. The provider of support or resource or whatever or information is also the recipient whatever the other person has to give, whether that’s friendship or that’s cultural learnings or gosh, food or celebrations—invitations to participate in community events and family celebrations. And recognizing that those things—to get to be included in that kind of—to be welcomed in that kind of environment, is just as valuable as whatever service you are providing. So, we very much constructed the Refugee Community Partnership out of kind of a shared critique of nonprofit organizations, including a critique of ourselves. Fortunately, over time we’ve kind of embedded this as a practice among staff and volunteers to really check ourselves and how we’re carrying out our work. And, yeah the rest is kind of history. I worked, yeah, at UNC as the director of that engagement division until about a year ago and left and came on as the Executive Director of the Refugee Community Partnership back in October.
CW: So when you’re trying to build these relationships with the communities you work with, what is the process of that relationship building actually look like? Or, how do you initiate that sort of initial contact and relationship building?
MH: Yeah. So, because we invested about a year of building relationships with local refugee communities, now fast-forward we just naturally are kind of embedded. So we are good friends with a lot of the folks who are community leaders with the local refugee populations and they play a staff role in the organization. Our program growth is—while we have some referral partners, most of our program growth comes from referrals coming from participants, So, they’re talking to their neighbors and tell them about the Refugee Community Partnership and they get involved and then they’re talking to their cousin’s niece and tell them and then blah, blah. So then growth—program growth is a natural extension of the relationships that are built. So that relation building becomes a vehicle for recruitment—you know what would typically—what most programs would call recruitment for program growth. We have—we hold regular feedback sessions with all the participants—participating families in the Refugee Community Partnership where we report back to them and say “these were the kind of outcomes we’re seeing out of our programs lately,” and get folks reflections and feedback on that. And we’re saying “these are the resources that have come into the organization recently. This is how we think they should be allocated,” and get their feedback on that so that the participants in the programs and the organization are the governing body of the organization and we’re really following their voices of leadership. And so going back to when I was speaking earlier about my original volunteer project in Argentina—about the moms and starting the meal kitchen, it’s like that. I’m kind of perceiving our job as using the channels of access that we have as a nonprofit organization, as well-resourced people and incredibly privileged individuals, but deliberately leveraging the resources and the access and the privilege that we have to garner the resources that refugee communities need in order to get to where they want to go. And that brings us to this concept of power and there’s another—there are great conversations going on today in the nonprofit world, and have been for many, many years—these conversations have been going for a very long time—long preceding me and my ancestors [laughs]. But, about how nonprofit organizations maintain the status quo. And that’s because a lot of our programs and services are developed around addressing the symptoms of root causes instead of the root causes themselves. And when you start to understand how power structures work in this country—that structures of advantage—yeah power structures are constructed to either fast track you to access, opportunity, and privilege or they’re designed to oppress and marginalize you. And so if we’re talking about actually—if we’re ready to have an honest conversation about what actually relieving these social problems means, it means talking about power. So we incorporate that into our volunteer training. We incorporate that into our staff and board trainings, so that at an—on a program, staff, and organizational—all of those levels, we’re incorporating these self-critiques and these conversations about power, structural oppression, systemic poverty, things like that so we don’t get kind of lulled into the ease of just addressing symptoms and opting out of the hard work of actually addressing the root problems. Totally went off on a tangent. We were talking about relationships. But, in terms of the relationship building too—our volunteers are really trained around this concept of mutual and reciprocal relationships. We’re really trying to buck this notion of charity and so for example, we have volunteers that work one-on-one with a refugee family and the family—we use a goal setting process, the family and the volunteers together. The family identifies what their short and long term goals are and together they and the volunteers kind of develop a customized work plan of how to achieve those goals. And if it’s a short term goal, it might be a three week long work plan and if it’s a long term goal it might be a three year long work plan. And these are long term relationships, so they’re working together for the long haul. And really the volunteers’ role in that is to kind of be the gatherers of the resources and information that that family needs to get to where they want to go. And similarly, the volunteer sets their own goals of what they want to learn. And so that can be, “I want to learn two new words in your language every week,” or, “I want to learn how to make a traditional dish from your culture.” [water running] And thereby we’re hardwiring the relationship to be one of reciprocity. And the relationships are overwhelmingly the most transformative aspect of our work. It’s amazing what kind of mutual support can be created when a relationship moves from a transactional one, where I’m providing something that I think you need—[background noise] It moves from that transaction to one of mutual support and reciprocity, then you get into social companionship. And that—I mean social companionship and those kind of relationships—they outlive any kind of program or nonprofit. Yeah.
CW: Great, so could you talk a little bit about the specific demographics of the refugee population in the area that you work with or maybe how those demographics have changed over time?
MH: Yeah, yeah so the majority of forcibly displaced people that have been resettled to Carrboro-Chapel Hill are from Burma [talking in background] and—largely from Burma and then Thailand and Malaysia as well. And Carrboro-Chapel Hill is a relatively new resettlement area [door opening and slamming] starting probably about ten years ago and up until even about two years ago, largely folks from Burma and Thailand. There’s been a growing number of folks resettled here from the Congo, some from Iraq and Afghanistan and then more recently, a growing number of folks from Syria. And looking ahead, the resettlement numbers are projected such that most of the folks resettled here will be from Syria, the Congo, and Iraq.
CW: And you talked earlier about [background noise] the process of goal setting you use. What are some of the most common goals that the newly resettled families have when they first arrive?
MH: Yeah, so overwhelmingly families want academic support for their kids. Even the parents who might be having a hard time finding work or just covering basic financial expenses, overwhelmingly their top priority is academic support for their kids. You talk to any family that has gone through the refugee resettlement process, which is a really often times traumatizing, very—it’s a really hard, hard journey. It’s a really hard journey. And almost every single family will tell you it’s because they want better opportunities for their kids and whatever hardship they have to go through in order to make that happen, they’ll do it. And so that’s usually on the list—that’s usually at the top of the list of families’ goals. But the other pressing ones are finding employment or finding better employment. So not speaking English and most folks arrive here without documentation of their past [background noise] work history or educational history. And a lot of folks back in their home countries were engineers or incredibly skilled tradespeople or teachers or organization directors, but don’t—but their skillsets or their educational background or their vocational background may not be considered legitimate in the eyes of the institutions here in this country. And so often times the only employment that is available to folks is low wage labor and often times that’s like eight dollars an hour. So parents just to cover basic financial expenses for a family of five often times have to work two or three jobs—work 90 hours a week. And when you do that you don’t have time to participate in ESL classes. And often times these low wage jobs are working in isolation. So for example a lot of folks work in the housekeeping department at UNC and the way that that kind of work looks is you’re assigned a section of a building and that’s what you work on for the next nine hours and you don’t get much interaction with other English speakers, more less in an educational environment. So people are—face a great deal of barriers to being able to improve their English skills quickly enough to access good employment and that can last for many, many, many years. And when that happens, then folks fall quickly into poverty and it’s really hard to get out of poverty once you’re in it. National data shows that amongst refugee populations for folks who are able to transition out of poverty, the average time to do that is 13-20 years. So life can be really hard. So, one of our—just knowing that—knowing the factors that cause systemic poverty, as an organization we always have most of our conversations center around employment. And for folks who had a skilled vocation back home and they want to get back to that vocation, then that would the long term goal. And that’s when we would set out a work plan that’s studded with benchmarks. So, if somebody was a plumber back in Syria and want to get back into that vocation here then we would set plumbing—being a plumber as the long term goal and then working backwards from there. So being a plumber—what certification do you need to be a plumber? So creating kind of a customized pathway to getting that certification. In order to participate in the classes that give you that certification, what level of English do you have to have? Okay so now that’ll illuminate the pathway toward English learning that we need in order to achieve this long term goal and so on and so forth. [sneeze in background] Housing is another big one. Affordable housing options are very limited in this area and they’re dwindling quickly and a lot of families are getting priced out of the only affordable housing options that there are here. So we do a lot of work around that as well. Some short term goals would be, finding an ESL class that’s happening at the time that I don’t have to work and if that doesn’t exist then we train our volunteers to provide English instruction one-on-one in folks’ homes—in their homes. And a lot of times is it’s providing that academic support, so not just maybe tutoring daily homework help, but actually being kind of like the academic liaison for the family between the school and the family. Because parents not speaking English have a really hard time engaging with their kids’ school. And even little things like, “gosh, my kid is sick today—throwing up, can’t go to school.” Even making that phone call to their teacher to tell them that is impossible if you don’t speak English, because not even a matter of having the conversation with the teacher, but most school systems have an automated voice system—automated line where you press one to go to the directory or press two to blah, blah, blah. And if you don’t speak English you can’t do that. So, being that academic liaison between the school and the family is a job that a lot—a role that a lot of our volunteers play. [running water] Yeah.
CW: I’m curious what kind of work, if any if this is part of what you do, you do to raise awareness amongst the non-refugee or immigrant population about these issues or challenged that the refugee population faces.
MH: Yeah, we’re—we do [background noise] we do that a lot. We have that—that is kind of our dual mission is to, while doing this relationship-centered support work and real community building, the other part of that mission is to grow the—grow a community of non-refugee people who are simultaneously developing a curiosity about these concepts and similarly developing a good practice of self-critique around things like power and structural oppression and service delivery and all of these approaches that are kind of like the standard for providing support or helping people. So yeah we—you know opportunities that if we’re doing a newspaper interview or news channel or invited to give a talk at a local congregation or even just talking for a few minutes to a student group, always trying to use those as opportunities to usher in these concepts and talk about these concepts.
CW: And from your experience are people for the most part pretty receptive to this or have you experienced any sort of resistance to these ideas?
MH: Yeah, for the most part it’s all been pretty well received. That said we’re talking about audiences who have—who want to hear from us and so we’re invited into the space. I think if we were to just show up somewhere uninvited and start spouting off criticisms that wouldn’t be so well received. This is also really good practice as an organization in how you be a steward of kind of community values. And, it’s really easy to go into—be talking with a group of people and spout criticisms. It’s much harder to get that same kind of critiquing conversation going, but more I think it’s worth the investment to figure out how to do that in a very approachable and palatable way. So for me personally, when I talk about these concepts I use “we” language. I always include myself in talking about this stuff and this is also kind of a rule for community organizing work. I do—I work—I do racial equity work with folks in this area and that’s something that we talk about—me as a white person, and trying to organize other white people around anti-racism work or racial equity work—is you always talk about your own racism when talking about other people or general—general racism. And that way you can be more—you’re making the concept more palatable, but you’re also encouraging self-reflection and that way you’re kind of—you’re keeping the doors open, whereas when we start spouting criticisms, it closes doors for people more quickly than anything. [talking in the background] So, this is all—these are the kind of strategies that we use to have these public conversations [clatter in background] that overall are also in this dual purpose mission of developing a community of people who are thinking critically about these things and self-critique. Yeah.
CW: So I wanted to ask you a little bit about sort of the policy-level of things. Obviously with this last election cycle and new administration, there’s been a lot of changes in not only the rhetoric surrounding immigrant and refugee populations, but actual policy changes as well. I’m wondering how that has affected the work you do either with the refugee communities or within this more educational outreach type stuff.
MH: Yeah so speaking to kind of like the direct effects of policy changes, the executive order that was—refugee-related executive order that was passed drastically cut funding to the resettlement agencies. So, historically the resettlement agencies are federally contracted and they’re the ones who transport—let’s say a refugee family from their country of origin to the United States and then they’re contracted to provide support to refugee individuals for two months here—two to three months. And, so since that executive order was passed, they lost a huge funding stream and some of them are looking at making pretty serious staff cuts—having to make pretty serious staff cuts. A couple of our local ones have already reduced their bench of staff and so they’re feeling the financial consequences of that pretty seriously and while they’re working hard to, I think, turn fundraising efforts towards more local sources, it’s illuminated for a lot of us the critical importance of community-based efforts. Because we feel like if we invest time and energy into cultivating local financial support for local efforts, that will create a more sustainable model that can weather changes in federal policy and that can weather changes in grant-making funding streams. So, I think how’s that’s directly impacted us—the week that that executive order was passed, a few—our Refugee Community Partnership and other refugee support organizations and the resettlement agencies had a number of conversations and some of those conversations centered around how us community-based organizations can grow our internal capacity—be able to fill the gaps that are starting to materialize as a result of this slash to federal funding to the resettlement agencies. So, yeah that’s one of the direct effects of the policy itself. One of the more social—some of the social impacts from these policy changes is that refugee folks are acutely aware of the growing sociopolitical hostility that’s given the greenlight to be more public now. And the way—and that’s generating a great deal of fear. And the way that that manifests and the way that that affects even socioeconomically daily life is folks are now afraid to submit that job application to that employer that they really wanted to get a job with or they’re afraid to call the social services agency and follow up on their food stamps application to see where it is in the process, because for fear of drawing more attention to their citizenship status. And so this is having serious consequences on peoples’—on the structural factors that govern daily life. Yeah.
CW: So what, if anything, do you think can be done on a community level to address that more social aspect of it and that fear that they feel?
MH: Yeah so a lot of—so some area nonprofit organizations are kind of doubling down on their practice of convening the communities that they work with and that they have relationships with on a regular basis to have just candid conversations about this stuff, to be able to answer questions, to be able to have—to be able to air grievances, to be able to create spaces where people can express their concerns and those be heard. So, I think there’s work going on around that and for example the day after the refugee-related executive order was passed, at RCP we scrambled real quick [laughs] and within a matter of eight hours organized a potluck joy event where we just decided that if one of the intentions of these policy changes is to instill this fear and to kind of break the human spirit, then joy is an act of resistance. So, we called all the families that we work with and we just threw a big old picnic at a local park and had music and arts and crafts and painting and games and just hung out together for a few hours just to kind of carve out space where we could all just breathe [laughs] in the face of what feels like a daily onslaught of fear and threat. Yeah.
CW: Well, thank you so much. I think those are the main questions I have for you. Is there anything else you’d like to add or sort of closing statement type thing?
MH: I think—so the theme of this conversation I think is the role that community-based nonprofits play in the general landscape of supportive work with immigrant and refugee communities. And I think—I think when we center our work around relationships—around the kind of relationships that we were talking about earlier [background noise] and moving those relationships from transactional ones to long term companionship where—that are grounded in the priorities—the changing priorities of the communities that we work with, I think the benefits that come from that, they are—there are a multitude of them and they far—they extend far beyond the kind of quote-on-quote measurable outcomes that nonprofits are supposed to measure their impact by. And in that respect, I think community-based organizations play a really, really critical role—a really critical one and I think we will—I look forward to this process of all of us developing a healthy habit of self-critique and yeah—and I’m glad there are more conversations like these going on. So thanks.
CW: Thank you.
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0865 -- Hayes, Madison.
Description
An account of the resource
Madison Hayes is the Executive Director of the Refugee Community Partnership in Carrboro, North Carolina. She explains her background in nonprofit and human rights work, both internationally and locally. Hayes discusses the history of power dynamics in service relationships and in research. She describes the formation of the Refugee Community Partnership and emphasizes their focus on building mutual and reciprocal relationships as the basis of their work. Hayes describes many of the goals that newly resettled families have and many of the obstacles to these goals that they face. She also emphasizes the importance of creating an open dialogue around these issues within the non-immigrant or refugee communities. Hayes also discusses the social and institutional impacts of recent US policy changes with respect to refugees.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
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18 April 2017
Format
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R0865_Audio.mp3
Publisher
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<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27400">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/22e4add1d02d04b1c4f870b2a93ac8a2.MP3
751d04668dec6f0a1748595b28316548
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/a544773f08058e29d1e95b0415eda480.pdf
229f89f3f50d42fa1846800a88e74417
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0859
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
12 May 2016
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Malki, Andreina.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Students
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1991
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Paysandú -- Uruguay
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Carrboro -- Orange County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-58.0757701 -32.3112903),1991,1;POINT(-79.0752895 35.9101438),2001,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Gill, Hannah E. (Hannah Elizabeth), 1977-
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
English
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Andreina Malki immigrated to the United States from the rural town of Paysandú, Uruguay in 2001 when she was thirteen years old. Her family moved after her father lost work due to the economic recession that impacted Uruguay, Argentina, and other countries in the region during that time. They moved to Greenville, South Carolina, where a community of Uruguayans had already settled, and her father found work in the construction industry. She and her two younger siblings attended school in the Greenville public school system. Andreina later went to Furman University, where she studied psychology and Chinese, and then to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where she graduated with a Master’s Degree in Global Studies in 2016. In this interview, Andreina discusses her family’s migration history, starting with the journeys of her great-grandparents to Uruguay from many parts of Europe including Turkey (the origin of the name Malki) and Italy. She discusses the European and indigenous origins of the population of Uruguay and notes that one of her great-grandparents—a native Uruguayan—identified as part of the Charrúa indigenous community. She speaks in detail about her first impressions of the U.S. as a teenager as well as the challenging experiences attending ESL classes in Greenville, S.C. in the one school that offered this program. She talks about making friends from other Latin American countries while in school, as well as the traditions and holidays that the Uruguayan community in Greenville, South Carolina continues to observe.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Andreina Malki by Hannah Gill, 12 May 2016, R-0859, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27094
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Migratory experience; Social networks; University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; Language and communication
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Hannah Gill: This is Hannah Gill and it is May 12, 2016. I’m here with Andreina Malki to do an interview. Andreina Malki can you tell me a little about yourself? Please introduce yourself and tell me where you are from?
Andreina Malki: Sure. My name is Andreina Malki and I am originally from Uruguay, South America. I just recently graduated from the Global Studies master’s program at UNC. Before that, I lived in South Carolina where my family went to when we first came to the US.
HG: Can you tell me a little about why your family came to South Carolina?
AM: My family has a bit of a weird story about immigrating to the US. My parents came to the US in the 1980s after the dictatorship in Uruguay and I was actually born in New Jersey. But, I’ve never been there because when I was six months old, my family moved back to Uruguay and I lived there until I was 13 years old. That was when the 2001-2003 big economic crisis in Uruguay happened so my family, including my brother and sister, moved to South Carolina. My dad came a while before us and then my mom, sister, brother, and I came later.
HG: Why New Jersey originally? Why South Carolina? Why those two locations to come to?
AM: I ask myself that question all the time, especially when I first got here, because New Jersey was so close to New York and that’s where I wanted to be (laughs). I don’t really know why, but there is a big community of Uruguayans in Queens New York and in the suburbs of New Jersey. I guess my parents were just following where that community was. Actually, one person that my parents knew in New Jersey had moved to South Carolina because there was a lot of construction work, especially in the Greenville area. My dad worked in construction and it was an up and coming area with lots of construction work so that’s why my dad originally chose Greenville. Also, Greenville, SC is very suburban and has lots of trees and mountains. If you’re from Uruguay, you’ve probably never seen a mountain before so it’s very pretty and green.
HG: Okay. I’m wondering if maybe you could back up a little bit and talk about your family’s migration history to Uruguay because your parents or maybe grandparents were not originally born there?
AM: Actually, my grandparents were. Their parents were not. From my dad’s side, my last name is Malki which is a mix of Arabic and Turkish. I’m very light skinned and I speak Spanish. And my first name could be French or Russian. Furthermore, people have no clue of where I’m from and it always surprises them when I start speaking in Spanish. But, Uruguay is really a nation of immigrants and very recent immigrants. So on my dad’s side, his grandpa came from Turkey when he was 15 years old. He was a Turkish-Jewish young man and he came during the Greco-Turkish War. And his wife, my dad’s grandma, came from Italy when she was in her earlier teens, skipping some sort of armed conflict during World War I. On his other grandparent’s side, one of them is indigenous from Uruguay, descendent of Charrua. His other grandma is Spanish and she can trace her roots back to the first Spaniards that came to Uruguay. On my mother’s side, one of her grandparents was from Italy and the other was the son of Spanish or Italian immigrants. There is a big mix. Actually a lot of Uruguayans have that kind of story of recent immigration. Also, lots of Uruguayans are immigrants somewhere else. It’s just a really complex certain tangle web of immigrant stories. A lot of people here think before I say anything or tell them I speak Spanish that I’m Russian or European but actually a lot of people in Uruguay are descendants of Europeans. Now I’m going to go into the history a little bit here. Uruguay is considered to be the only Latin American country that doesn’t have an indigenous population because there was a horrible genocide of the indigenous population. That’s why I think a lot of us people in Uruguay can trace our roots to recent European immigrants because the Charrua and Guarani population was pretty much wiped out. However, that is not entirely true because my grandpa claimed to be an indigenous Charrua person. And his job, I don’t really know how to say this English, throughout his life was to find water with a two pronged wooden stick and that’s what he got paid for doing. So there was a genocide, but there was also this institutional genocide where people basically said, “Yes there are no more indigenous Charrua.” Actually my grandpa changed his indigenous name from Gabino which is more associated to Augustin because there was a lot of racism. So that’s my super weird, “how I got to the world” story.
HG: So what is the town that you were from in Uruguay?
AM: The town is called Paísandú. It is on the border with Argentina. I always tell people that I went to Argentina every day because all you have to do is just bike and cross this bridge. It’s on the west and center part of the country. It’s the third biggest town/city in Uruguay but it’s very small. There are maybe 100,000 people in the actual city and in the surroundings there’s a bit more. Uruguay is a very small country and it has 3-3.5 million people and 1.2 million people live in the capital city, Montevideo. You can imagine that the rest of the country is pretty open and there’s low population densities because there are not that many people and lot of them are concentrated in urban areas. A lot of industries that we have there are leather, trading for export, wool for export, and other sorts of industries that derive from some of the agricultural focus of that region.
HG: So when your family came for the second time and moved to Greenville, South Carolina, that was what part of the result of the recession? What year was that?
AM: It started in 2001. That is when my dad came. Around the same period, Argentina had been experiencing different presidents within a really short-term span, there were a lot of protests, and the dollar had crashed. It affected Uruguay, to some extent, just because the economies of Uruguay, Argentina, & Brazil were so closely tied together. So it really affected my family. My dad had an egg farm, but not a big egg farm, where he would produce eggs and sell them to others. But that later died down in 2001 and that was why he came here.
HG: How did your life change under the recession? What was that like? How did your family experience that? Beyond your father being out of work and having to seek other employment, what were some of the ways that it impacted you?
AM: You know when you’re 12, you don’t really understand the situation. I mean you kind of know and there are things that affect you, like “Oh my dad had to move to the US,” so clearly something happened. But, you don’t understand as much. For me the thing that was different was that I knew that we were leaving and that we weren’t going to live in Uruguay anymore. Even before I came, those couple of years were kind of impending, like something was going to change. At the same time, when you’re 12 or 13, you’re old enough to understand that this is what my parents have decided we’re going to do and not complain whereas my siblings were a bit younger and were like “No why are we doing this?” I guess the biggest thing was coming here but also leaving our house with all our possessions in it. You can’t just pack your house and move. So we came with essentially the amount of things a tourist would carry. I had to leave my toys, clothes, furniture, and rock collection. I remember I had a really cool rock collection. I think that was the biggest thing. Not only moving, but also not being able to bring anything with you. Additionally, of course the language and starting school in a different language.
HG: So tell me about what was the first thing you thought of South Carolina when you arrived? What struck you? What was your first impression of South Carolina?
AM: I thought it was beautiful. There is a joke in Uruguay that if you stand in Montevideo you can see the tip of another country just because it is super flat. I mean that’s not entirely true, there are some elevations, but for the most part it is very flat. So I had never seen mountains before. The first time I saw mountains in my life was when I was flying over the Andes in the plane. Once I got to South Carolina, I thought “Oh my god these are mountains that I can walk on, touch, and see in real life.” I thought it was absolutely beautiful. Also, there were a lot of Dollar Trees and buffets. I just thought this is the American Dream. This is what people talk about because you could buy all kinds of things for a dollar. I think my parents were very good and they were sort of enticing us to come here saying things like “here is $10, you can get ten things.” And as a 13 year old, I thought it was the coolest thing. I actually liked it a lot when I first got there.
HG: Tell me about school and learning English. Tell me about the process of going to school in Greenville, SC.
AM: That was not nearly as exciting as my Dollar Tree and buffet experiences. When I first got to Greenville, SC, I had taken two years of English. It was British English and I didn’t really speak any American English. I used to spell things very differently. While I did have some foundation of the grammar and some understanding of how the language worked, I didn’t truly speak the language. The only school that had an ESL (English as a Second Language) program in Greenville County at that point was Parker Middle School. Since then, the school has been knocked down and a charter school has been built in its place. It was not a great school by all of the normal markets of great schools. The school was old and literally falling apart. It was in a very poor area and it was also very far from where I and other ESL students lived. The bus picked me up at 6:15 am and the only elementary school that had ESL was right next to it. That one was nicer and was a newer school. The same bus would pick up me and my siblings, even though they were in elementary school and I was in middle school. The winters were dark.
HG: So you were bused to these schools because it was the only program that had ESL in the county?
AM: Yes, the only program that had ESL even though I had a school a couple blocks away that was really nice. I wanted to go there but my school was the only one that had ESL. There were other problems with the school. I saw people doing drugs in the basement and in hallways. The bus ride was not a great experience. It was just not a good school. There were a lot of fights and a lot of students had just arrived to the US and were just recently put into the school. It was tense in a number of ways because there were a lot of immigrants and then the students that already went there also had their own set of problems. Adding to this was the fact that the school was underfunded and falling apart and then all of the sudden you saw an influx of people that didn’t speak your own language. It was a primarily an African American and Latino immigrant school so there were also some racial tensions and there was a lack of necessary programs that could sort of diffuse these certain situations or make it a better environment. So it was really rough because schools where I went to in Uruguay were great. I loved my teachers and knew them for years. The buildings were safe and fun and I was really happy there so the transition was definitely very difficult. I finished sixth grade in Uruguay so when I got here, I got put into seventh grade. I only went to that school for like four months and when the new school year started my parents put me in an all English and no ESL school. Although the school was nicer, I really missed being able to talk to people and understanding what people were saying. However, I think I learned English faster that way because I was put into this somewhat immersive environment. But it was also highly difficult in other ways because you didn’t really have a clue of what was going on. I was lucky to meet other immigrants or Latino students that spoke Spanish and also spoke some English. Now, I think all schools in Greenville County are required to have ESL. I think it happened soon after I arrived. When I first arrived, that was not the case so I had a difficult experience.
HG: Where were all of the other ESL students from?
AM: In Greenville [SC], there were a lot of immigrants from Mexico. I met a lot from Honduras as well but I would say the majority of people were either Colombian or Mexican. There were maybe five or six Uruguayan students/families when I went to school.
HG: After you moved to a different school and your adjustment was a bit better, how did it go? How was the process of learning English?
AM: You know, it’s a bit of a blur when I think back. It all happened so fast. I feel like at one moment I didn’t really have a clue of what was going on and then fast-forward six years and I’m speaking English. It is actually really hard to think back to how that happened. One, I think it is because I was a teenager and I had other things to worry about. Second, I also had a lot of Latina friends (Colombian, Mexican, and Honduran) so while I had to speak English for school, I could also socialize with them and speak Spanish. Third, it was also really hard because I was a really good student in Uruguay. Then, when you get here and you don’t really know what’s going on, you start to get okay grades. I couldn’t participate in class discussions so I think it made it that much more difficult. Another part of the reason for why I don’t remember is that I actively try to not think about that too much because it was very difficult. When I got to college, five years after being in the States, I could understand pretty much everything but I was terrified of speaking it. In junior year of college, I finally thought “Oh my god I can speak English!” However, I think I need to do some more reflection on how that happened because I remember the spaces of the events but not really the in between.
HG: Did you end up going to school in South Carolina or did you go elsewhere?
AM: For my undergraduate, I did it at Furman University in South Carolina. It was super close to where my parents were living, which I wanted given that I was 17 when I went to college (I got put forward one year when I moved to the US). I felt like I wasn’t ready to move again since I had already moved pretty far so I chose Furman which is close and a private university. However, I got a scholarship to go there and it was the obvious choice for me. I studied psychology and Asian studies (Chinese) at Furman. After Furman, I worked for two years in South Carolina and then came to North Carolina. After working, I wanted to go back to school and I finally felt ready to leave my parents. I was around 22-23 and I was like “Okay now I feel like I can go, but not too far.” That was one of the primary reasons for North Carolina and UNC.
HG: What got you interested in Asian studies (Chinese)?
AM: It’s a really funny story and sort of coincidental. At Furman, they had this program for people, specifically before they went into school their freshman year, which consisted of going to China for free for two weeks and then taking two semesters and a seminar of Chinese after getting back from the trip. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I didn’t want to take German or French and I already knew Spanish. I mean you had to take a language so I said “why not Chinese.” I’ve never been out of the country besides Brazil and Argentina which don’t really count because they are so close. And then I’ve been to the US of course. But, I’ve never been out of the country for vacation purposes. So I thought, “oh my god why wouldn’t I do this,” so I just did it. I took Chinese and I really liked and I kept taking it. It was also just a few extra classes to get a double major so that was why I did that. I also studied a lot in China when I was in college.
HG: Why was the global studies master’s program at UNC a good fit for you?
AM: So I studied psychology because I thought I wanted to be a psychologist. My mom wanted to be a psychologist and she didn’t get to finish and moved to the US and then had me. Since I was little, I loved that stuff. I did a lot of neuroscience clubs and I really liked it. But, I decided that it was not what I wanted to do. Global studies was flexible in the sense that you can take classes in different departments and you don’t really have to take a very specific concentration. It allows you to explore a little bit. I also had a lot of international experience from studying abroad and also from a job I had in between college and coming to UNC. So I thought, “well this is a great fit,” since it had the global focus that I’ve always had in my life and also in my academic experience. I could also explore without having to commit to one thing. I still don’t know what I want to do when I grow so I think it was a good fit in that way as well.
HG: You had mentioned before that there was this community of people from Uruguay living in South Carolina. That is very interesting. Do you know anything about the history of that connection between South Carolina and Uruguay?
AM: Yes and no. One thing that’s really curious is that Hilton Head, SC had tons of people from my city in Uruguay. I don’t know why or when that started but it kind of makes sense because it’s a beautiful place. If you’re going to move to a different country, why not go to a beautiful place? As far as Greenville, SC, my dad had this one random friend he knew from NJ who had moved there for construction so that’s how he got there. Another family was in a similar situation and knew one person in the 80s that had also come to South Carolina for construction work. So I think that kind of network, really just word of mouth like “hey, I’m moving to the US, where are you,” happened. I also know that some of the families in Uruguay are related. So one person would come and then the other would follow. Specifically, I think that Greenville, SC besides from my school experience has really good schools. It’s also pretty, suburban, and there are trees everywhere. I think that it is why it has attracted so many people. I know a lot of people that moved from places in the North like Massachusetts because they couldn’t handle the cold anymore. Once that word of mouth started and mention of work in South Carolina, a lot of people began coming from MA and Rhode Island. But that’s about all I know.
HG: You mentioned that you hung out with folks from all parts of South and Latin America. Was there a community of Uruguayans there that you could also do things with?
AM: Yea. The first people that I met here were Uruguayan. I have a weird immigrant story. My parents got divorced and you know that always splits friends. Well they got separated. They have great relationships and I love them but when that happens friends get separated and split as well. So that kind of tinkered my Uruguayan community experience.
HG: They both stayed in Greenville?
AM: Yea, they are both in Greenville. I think that those tensions within my own family played a role. All of my other friends had strong family units and their parents were together and not divorced. However, I still have friends that are Uruguayan. Another factor for why I didn’t have as much of a Uruguayan community as I would’ve liked is that I lived in my college. I think that at that point a lot of my friends had either not started college or went to community college and stayed at home. I also don’t think I navigated this really well. If I could be 18 again, I would do it differently. I think I felt that I had to choose between the friends that I had at Greenville or making new friends and fully immersing myself in the college living experience. Maybe I lost some of what I considered my Uruguayan community once I went to college.
HG: What are some of the ways that people living in your Uruguayan community stayed connected with their home country? Or did they? Did they attend festivals or were there certain holidays? Was it important to continue that connection for your family or yourself?
AM: Yes it was. One thing that is really sort of iconic in Uruguay is grilled meat. We always grill lots of meat and there are these really elaborate grills outside. I would say that most Uruguayan families have built one of those in their backyards.
HG: What are they called?
AM: Churrasquería. They are basically these cement houses that have this metal grill and then you make fire with the wood. Then you use the coals of the wood to grill the meat. We used to do a lot of those. For Christmas, people would get together and do one of those. I remember it’d be really cold. As you know, Christmas is hot in Uruguay since its summer but people still did that here. For the Uruguayan Independence Day, there’s this thing called the Night of Nostalgia, where clubs in Uruguay would play old music like from when my parents were young. I don’t really know why they did it. There were also some clubs that started doing that in Greenville so it was fun. But the community wasn’t big enough. The Colombian community had the Colombian Independence Day Festival which was giant but there were enough of us (Uruguayans) to sort of make more public events.
HG: To what extent did you feel things in common with people from other parts of Latin America? Were you ready to embrace your Latino and Hispanic identity? Or did you really still feel that you’re Uruguayan and that’s where you’re from?
AM: I think it’s a little bit less of a choice sometimes then it sounds like it would. Most of my friends and the people I went to school with were Colombian. Clearly I wasn’t Colombian and they knew that. But amongst us, we’d say things like “oh haha, your accent” or comment on the words that we’d use. Also, two people from my school weren’t Latin American but Latino and there wasn’t a difference. I think if it was just Latin American people those traditions are clearer. But when you’re with a group of Latin Americans and also other groups that are from here, it’s a bit different but I still embraced it. I also think that in Greenville most of the Latinos were first generation immigrants so there wasn’t really this “Latino vs Latin American” thing going on. It was always just one of the other because most people had come very recently.
HG: Andreina, thank you so much for sharing your story!
AM: Thank you. This was really fun!
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Estudiantes
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Inglés
Es: Resumen
Andreina Malki emigró a los estados unidos de la población rural de Paysandú, Uruguay en el 2001 cuando tenia trece años de edad. Su familia se mudo después de que su padre perdio su trabajo dado a la recesión económica que impacto a Uruguay, Argentina, y otros países en la region durante ese tiempo. Se mudaron a Greenville, Carolina del Sur, donde una comunidad de uruguayos ya estaba establecida, y su padre encontro trabajo en la industria de construcción. Ella y sus dos hermanos menores atendieron el colegio en el sistema de educación publica de Greenville. Andreina después fue a la Universidad de Furman, donde estudio psicología y chino, y después a la Universidad de Carolina del Norte donde se graduó con un titulo de Masters en estudios globales en el 2016. En esta entrevista, Andreina discute sobre la historia migratoria de su familia, comenzando con los viajes de sus bisabuelos a Uruguay y muchas otras partes de Europa incluyendo Turquía (el origen del nombre Malki) e Italia. Ella discute sobre los orígenes Europeos e indígenos de la población en Uruguay y nota que uno de sus bisabuelos— un uruguayo nativo — se identificaba como parte de la tribu Charrúa. Ella habla sobre sus primeras impresiones de EE.UU. cuando era una adolescente y también sobre experiencias desafiantes atendiendo clases de ESL en Greenville, Carolina del Sur, en el único colegio que ofrecía el programa. Ella habla de las amistades que hizo con personas de otros países Latinoamericanos cuando estaba en el colegio, y de las tradiciones y días festivos que la comunidad uruguaya en Greenville, Carolina del Sur, sigue observando.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Andreina Malki por Hannah Gill, 12 Mayo 2016, R-0859, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Experiencia migratoria; Redes sociales; Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill; Lenguaje y comunicación
Es: Transcripción
Hannah Gill: This is Hannah Gill and it is May 12, 2016. I’m here with Andreina Malki to do an interview. Andreina Malki can you tell me a little about yourself? Please introduce yourself and tell me where you are from?
Andreina Malki: Sure. My name is Andreina Malki and I am originally from Uruguay, South America. I just recently graduated from the Global Studies master’s program at UNC. Before that, I lived in South Carolina where my family went to when we first came to the US.
HG: Can you tell me a little about why your family came to South Carolina?
AM: My family has a bit of a weird story about immigrating to the US. My parents came to the US in the 1980s after the dictatorship in Uruguay and I was actually born in New Jersey. But, I’ve never been there because when I was six months old, my family moved back to Uruguay and I lived there until I was 13 years old. That was when the 2001-2003 big economic crisis in Uruguay happened so my family, including my brother and sister, moved to South Carolina. My dad came a while before us and then my mom, sister, brother, and I came later.
HG: Why New Jersey originally? Why South Carolina? Why those two locations to come to?
AM: I ask myself that question all the time, especially when I first got here, because New Jersey was so close to New York and that’s where I wanted to be (laughs). I don’t really know why, but there is a big community of Uruguayans in Queens New York and in the suburbs of New Jersey. I guess my parents were just following where that community was. Actually, one person that my parents knew in New Jersey had moved to South Carolina because there was a lot of construction work, especially in the Greenville area. My dad worked in construction and it was an up and coming area with lots of construction work so that’s why my dad originally chose Greenville. Also, Greenville, SC is very suburban and has lots of trees and mountains. If you’re from Uruguay, you’ve probably never seen a mountain before so it’s very pretty and green.
HG: Okay. I’m wondering if maybe you could back up a little bit and talk about your family’s migration history to Uruguay because your parents or maybe grandparents were not originally born there?
AM: Actually, my grandparents were. Their parents were not. From my dad’s side, my last name is Malki which is a mix of Arabic and Turkish. I’m very light skinned and I speak Spanish. And my first name could be French or Russian. Furthermore, people have no clue of where I’m from and it always surprises them when I start speaking in Spanish. But, Uruguay is really a nation of immigrants and very recent immigrants. So on my dad’s side, his grandpa came from Turkey when he was 15 years old. He was a Turkish-Jewish young man and he came during the Greco-Turkish War. And his wife, my dad’s grandma, came from Italy when she was in her earlier teens, skipping some sort of armed conflict during World War I. On his other grandparent’s side, one of them is indigenous from Uruguay, descendent of Charrua. His other grandma is Spanish and she can trace her roots back to the first Spaniards that came to Uruguay. On my mother’s side, one of her grandparents was from Italy and the other was the son of Spanish or Italian immigrants. There is a big mix. Actually a lot of Uruguayans have that kind of story of recent immigration. Also, lots of Uruguayans are immigrants somewhere else. It’s just a really complex certain tangle web of immigrant stories. A lot of people here think before I say anything or tell them I speak Spanish that I’m Russian or European but actually a lot of people in Uruguay are descendants of Europeans. Now I’m going to go into the history a little bit here. Uruguay is considered to be the only Latin American country that doesn’t have an indigenous population because there was a horrible genocide of the indigenous population. That’s why I think a lot of us people in Uruguay can trace our roots to recent European immigrants because the Charrua and Guarani population was pretty much wiped out. However, that is not entirely true because my grandpa claimed to be an indigenous Charrua person. And his job, I don’t really know how to say this English, throughout his life was to find water with a two pronged wooden stick and that’s what he got paid for doing. So there was a genocide, but there was also this institutional genocide where people basically said, “Yes there are no more indigenous Charrua.” Actually my grandpa changed his indigenous name from Gabino which is more associated to Augustin because there was a lot of racism. So that’s my super weird, “how I got to the world” story.
HG: So what is the town that you were from in Uruguay?
AM: The town is called Paísandú. It is on the border with Argentina. I always tell people that I went to Argentina every day because all you have to do is just bike and cross this bridge. It’s on the west and center part of the country. It’s the third biggest town/city in Uruguay but it’s very small. There are maybe 100,000 people in the actual city and in the surroundings there’s a bit more. Uruguay is a very small country and it has 3-3.5 million people and 1.2 million people live in the capital city, Montevideo. You can imagine that the rest of the country is pretty open and there’s low population densities because there are not that many people and lot of them are concentrated in urban areas. A lot of industries that we have there are leather, trading for export, wool for export, and other sorts of industries that derive from some of the agricultural focus of that region.
HG: So when your family came for the second time and moved to Greenville, South Carolina, that was what part of the result of the recession? What year was that?
AM: It started in 2001. That is when my dad came. Around the same period, Argentina had been experiencing different presidents within a really short-term span, there were a lot of protests, and the dollar had crashed. It affected Uruguay, to some extent, just because the economies of Uruguay, Argentina, & Brazil were so closely tied together. So it really affected my family. My dad had an egg farm, but not a big egg farm, where he would produce eggs and sell them to others. But that later died down in 2001 and that was why he came here.
HG: How did your life change under the recession? What was that like? How did your family experience that? Beyond your father being out of work and having to seek other employment, what were some of the ways that it impacted you?
AM: You know when you’re 12, you don’t really understand the situation. I mean you kind of know and there are things that affect you, like “Oh my dad had to move to the US,” so clearly something happened. But, you don’t understand as much. For me the thing that was different was that I knew that we were leaving and that we weren’t going to live in Uruguay anymore. Even before I came, those couple of years were kind of impending, like something was going to change. At the same time, when you’re 12 or 13, you’re old enough to understand that this is what my parents have decided we’re going to do and not complain whereas my siblings were a bit younger and were like “No why are we doing this?” I guess the biggest thing was coming here but also leaving our house with all our possessions in it. You can’t just pack your house and move. So we came with essentially the amount of things a tourist would carry. I had to leave my toys, clothes, furniture, and rock collection. I remember I had a really cool rock collection. I think that was the biggest thing. Not only moving, but also not being able to bring anything with you. Additionally, of course the language and starting school in a different language.
HG: So tell me about what was the first thing you thought of South Carolina when you arrived? What struck you? What was your first impression of South Carolina?
AM: I thought it was beautiful. There is a joke in Uruguay that if you stand in Montevideo you can see the tip of another country just because it is super flat. I mean that’s not entirely true, there are some elevations, but for the most part it is very flat. So I had never seen mountains before. The first time I saw mountains in my life was when I was flying over the Andes in the plane. Once I got to South Carolina, I thought “Oh my god these are mountains that I can walk on, touch, and see in real life.” I thought it was absolutely beautiful. Also, there were a lot of Dollar Trees and buffets. I just thought this is the American Dream. This is what people talk about because you could buy all kinds of things for a dollar. I think my parents were very good and they were sort of enticing us to come here saying things like “here is $10, you can get ten things.” And as a 13 year old, I thought it was the coolest thing. I actually liked it a lot when I first got there.
HG: Tell me about school and learning English. Tell me about the process of going to school in Greenville, SC.
AM: That was not nearly as exciting as my Dollar Tree and buffet experiences. When I first got to Greenville, SC, I had taken two years of English. It was British English and I didn’t really speak any American English. I used to spell things very differently. While I did have some foundation of the grammar and some understanding of how the language worked, I didn’t truly speak the language. The only school that had an ESL (English as a Second Language) program in Greenville County at that point was Parker Middle School. Since then, the school has been knocked down and a charter school has been built in its place. It was not a great school by all of the normal markets of great schools. The school was old and literally falling apart. It was in a very poor area and it was also very far from where I and other ESL students lived. The bus picked me up at 6:15 am and the only elementary school that had ESL was right next to it. That one was nicer and was a newer school. The same bus would pick up me and my siblings, even though they were in elementary school and I was in middle school. The winters were dark.
HG: So you were bused to these schools because it was the only program that had ESL in the county?
AM: Yes, the only program that had ESL even though I had a school a couple blocks away that was really nice. I wanted to go there but my school was the only one that had ESL. There were other problems with the school. I saw people doing drugs in the basement and in hallways. The bus ride was not a great experience. It was just not a good school. There were a lot of fights and a lot of students had just arrived to the US and were just recently put into the school. It was tense in a number of ways because there were a lot of immigrants and then the students that already went there also had their own set of problems. Adding to this was the fact that the school was underfunded and falling apart and then all of the sudden you saw an influx of people that didn’t speak your own language. It was a primarily an African American and Latino immigrant school so there were also some racial tensions and there was a lack of necessary programs that could sort of diffuse these certain situations or make it a better environment. So it was really rough because schools where I went to in Uruguay were great. I loved my teachers and knew them for years. The buildings were safe and fun and I was really happy there so the transition was definitely very difficult. I finished sixth grade in Uruguay so when I got here, I got put into seventh grade. I only went to that school for like four months and when the new school year started my parents put me in an all English and no ESL school. Although the school was nicer, I really missed being able to talk to people and understanding what people were saying. However, I think I learned English faster that way because I was put into this somewhat immersive environment. But it was also highly difficult in other ways because you didn’t really have a clue of what was going on. I was lucky to meet other immigrants or Latino students that spoke Spanish and also spoke some English. Now, I think all schools in Greenville County are required to have ESL. I think it happened soon after I arrived. When I first arrived, that was not the case so I had a difficult experience.
HG: Where were all of the other ESL students from?
AM: In Greenville [SC], there were a lot of immigrants from Mexico. I met a lot from Honduras as well but I would say the majority of people were either Colombian or Mexican. There were maybe five or six Uruguayan students/families when I went to school.
HG: After you moved to a different school and your adjustment was a bit better, how did it go? How was the process of learning English?
AM: You know, it’s a bit of a blur when I think back. It all happened so fast. I feel like at one moment I didn’t really have a clue of what was going on and then fast-forward six years and I’m speaking English. It is actually really hard to think back to how that happened. One, I think it is because I was a teenager and I had other things to worry about. Second, I also had a lot of Latina friends (Colombian, Mexican, and Honduran) so while I had to speak English for school, I could also socialize with them and speak Spanish. Third, it was also really hard because I was a really good student in Uruguay. Then, when you get here and you don’t really know what’s going on, you start to get okay grades. I couldn’t participate in class discussions so I think it made it that much more difficult. Another part of the reason for why I don’t remember is that I actively try to not think about that too much because it was very difficult. When I got to college, five years after being in the States, I could understand pretty much everything but I was terrified of speaking it. In junior year of college, I finally thought “Oh my god I can speak English!” However, I think I need to do some more reflection on how that happened because I remember the spaces of the events but not really the in between.
HG: Did you end up going to school in South Carolina or did you go elsewhere?
AM: For my undergraduate, I did it at Furman University in South Carolina. It was super close to where my parents were living, which I wanted given that I was 17 when I went to college (I got put forward one year when I moved to the US). I felt like I wasn’t ready to move again since I had already moved pretty far so I chose Furman which is close and a private university. However, I got a scholarship to go there and it was the obvious choice for me. I studied psychology and Asian studies (Chinese) at Furman. After Furman, I worked for two years in South Carolina and then came to North Carolina. After working, I wanted to go back to school and I finally felt ready to leave my parents. I was around 22-23 and I was like “Okay now I feel like I can go, but not too far.” That was one of the primary reasons for North Carolina and UNC.
HG: What got you interested in Asian studies (Chinese)?
AM: It’s a really funny story and sort of coincidental. At Furman, they had this program for people, specifically before they went into school their freshman year, which consisted of going to China for free for two weeks and then taking two semesters and a seminar of Chinese after getting back from the trip. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I didn’t want to take German or French and I already knew Spanish. I mean you had to take a language so I said “why not Chinese.” I’ve never been out of the country besides Brazil and Argentina which don’t really count because they are so close. And then I’ve been to the US of course. But, I’ve never been out of the country for vacation purposes. So I thought, “oh my god why wouldn’t I do this,” so I just did it. I took Chinese and I really liked and I kept taking it. It was also just a few extra classes to get a double major so that was why I did that. I also studied a lot in China when I was in college.
HG: Why was the global studies master’s program at UNC a good fit for you?
AM: So I studied psychology because I thought I wanted to be a psychologist. My mom wanted to be a psychologist and she didn’t get to finish and moved to the US and then had me. Since I was little, I loved that stuff. I did a lot of neuroscience clubs and I really liked it. But, I decided that it was not what I wanted to do. Global studies was flexible in the sense that you can take classes in different departments and you don’t really have to take a very specific concentration. It allows you to explore a little bit. I also had a lot of international experience from studying abroad and also from a job I had in between college and coming to UNC. So I thought, “well this is a great fit,” since it had the global focus that I’ve always had in my life and also in my academic experience. I could also explore without having to commit to one thing. I still don’t know what I want to do when I grow so I think it was a good fit in that way as well.
HG: You had mentioned before that there was this community of people from Uruguay living in South Carolina. That is very interesting. Do you know anything about the history of that connection between South Carolina and Uruguay?
AM: Yes and no. One thing that’s really curious is that Hilton Head, SC had tons of people from my city in Uruguay. I don’t know why or when that started but it kind of makes sense because it’s a beautiful place. If you’re going to move to a different country, why not go to a beautiful place? As far as Greenville, SC, my dad had this one random friend he knew from NJ who had moved there for construction so that’s how he got there. Another family was in a similar situation and knew one person in the 80s that had also come to South Carolina for construction work. So I think that kind of network, really just word of mouth like “hey, I’m moving to the US, where are you,” happened. I also know that some of the families in Uruguay are related. So one person would come and then the other would follow. Specifically, I think that Greenville, SC besides from my school experience has really good schools. It’s also pretty, suburban, and there are trees everywhere. I think that it is why it has attracted so many people. I know a lot of people that moved from places in the North like Massachusetts because they couldn’t handle the cold anymore. Once that word of mouth started and mention of work in South Carolina, a lot of people began coming from MA and Rhode Island. But that’s about all I know.
HG: You mentioned that you hung out with folks from all parts of South and Latin America. Was there a community of Uruguayans there that you could also do things with?
AM: Yea. The first people that I met here were Uruguayan. I have a weird immigrant story. My parents got divorced and you know that always splits friends. Well they got separated. They have great relationships and I love them but when that happens friends get separated and split as well. So that kind of tinkered my Uruguayan community experience.
HG: They both stayed in Greenville?
AM: Yea, they are both in Greenville. I think that those tensions within my own family played a role. All of my other friends had strong family units and their parents were together and not divorced. However, I still have friends that are Uruguayan. Another factor for why I didn’t have as much of a Uruguayan community as I would’ve liked is that I lived in my college. I think that at that point a lot of my friends had either not started college or went to community college and stayed at home. I also don’t think I navigated this really well. If I could be 18 again, I would do it differently. I think I felt that I had to choose between the friends that I had at Greenville or making new friends and fully immersing myself in the college living experience. Maybe I lost some of what I considered my Uruguayan community once I went to college.
HG: What are some of the ways that people living in your Uruguayan community stayed connected with their home country? Or did they? Did they attend festivals or were there certain holidays? Was it important to continue that connection for your family or yourself?
AM: Yes it was. One thing that is really sort of iconic in Uruguay is grilled meat. We always grill lots of meat and there are these really elaborate grills outside. I would say that most Uruguayan families have built one of those in their backyards.
HG: What are they called?
AM: Churrasquería. They are basically these cement houses that have this metal grill and then you make fire with the wood. Then you use the coals of the wood to grill the meat. We used to do a lot of those. For Christmas, people would get together and do one of those. I remember it’d be really cold. As you know, Christmas is hot in Uruguay since its summer but people still did that here. For the Uruguayan Independence Day, there’s this thing called the Night of Nostalgia, where clubs in Uruguay would play old music like from when my parents were young. I don’t really know why they did it. There were also some clubs that started doing that in Greenville so it was fun. But the community wasn’t big enough. The Colombian community had the Colombian Independence Day Festival which was giant but there were enough of us (Uruguayans) to sort of make more public events.
HG: To what extent did you feel things in common with people from other parts of Latin America? Were you ready to embrace your Latino and Hispanic identity? Or did you really still feel that you’re Uruguayan and that’s where you’re from?
AM: I think it’s a little bit less of a choice sometimes then it sounds like it would. Most of my friends and the people I went to school with were Colombian. Clearly I wasn’t Colombian and they knew that. But amongst us, we’d say things like “oh haha, your accent” or comment on the words that we’d use. Also, two people from my school weren’t Latin American but Latino and there wasn’t a difference. I think if it was just Latin American people those traditions are clearer. But when you’re with a group of Latin Americans and also other groups that are from here, it’s a bit different but I still embraced it. I also think that in Greenville most of the Latinos were first generation immigrants so there wasn’t really this “Latino vs Latin American” thing going on. It was always just one of the other because most people had come very recently.
HG: Andreina, thank you so much for sharing your story!
AM: Thank you. This was really fun!
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0859 -- Malki, Andreina.
Description
An account of the resource
Andreina Malki immigrated to the United States from the rural town of Paysandú, Uruguay in 2001 when she was thirteen years old. Her family moved after her father lost work due to the economic recession that impacted Uruguay, Argentina, and other countries in the region during that time. They moved to Greenville, South Carolina, where a community of Uruguayans had already settled, and her father found work in the construction industry. She and her two younger siblings attended school in the Greenville public school system. Andreina later went to Furman University, where she studied psychology and Chinese, and then to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where she graduated with a Master’s Degree in Global Studies in 2016. In this interview, Andreina discusses her family’s migration history, starting with the journeys of her great-grandparents to Uruguay from many parts of Europe including Turkey (the origin of the name Malki) and Italy. She discusses the European and indigenous origins of the population of Uruguay and notes that one of her great-grandparents—a native Uruguayan—identified as part of the Charrúa indigenous community. She speaks in detail about her first impressions of the U.S. as a teenager as well as the challenging experiences attending ESL classes in Greenville, S.C. in the one school that offered this program. She talks about making friends from other Latin American countries while in school, as well as the traditions and holidays that the Uruguayan community in Greenville, South Carolina continues to observe.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
12 May 2016
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0859_Audio.mp3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/27094">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/7ab9aa35fce171cbb10a11ec4f0fea7c.mp3
81896b8eb29c789d90f11ac9e3fb55ee
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/302a18533db626473aa0b3d419501889.pdf
ee6cfbd355f3c0389900d7bb04c36441
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0709
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
13 Apr 2014
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Patiño, Rafael.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Administrative assistants
Interviewee Date of Birth
Fecha de nacimiento del entrevistado
1990
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Male
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
Celaya -- Guanajuato -- Mexico
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Carrboro -- Orange County -- North Carolina
Interviewee Journey Coordinates
POINT(-100.813889 20.523056),1990,1;POINT(-79.0752895 35.9101438),2001,2
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Went, Cora.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Spanish
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Patiño, a permanent US resident who emigrated from Mexico with his family when he was eleven years old, learned English in school and adjusted easily to the United States. In eigth grade, Patiño left school to go to Mexico with his mother to help care for his sick grandmother, and when they returned he no longer had the motivation to continue school, eventually dropping out in eleventh grade. Patiño tells the story of meeting his wife, and explains their decision to have a baby, even though he would remain in the United States while his wife and child are in Mexico. Fortunately through technology and a job that allows him to frequently visit them in Mexico, he stays connected with his wife and baby. Patiño shares his plans for his family in the future, compares life in Chapel Hill to Celaya, and says that he would like to bring his family to the United States for a while, but invest in real estate in Mexico and retire there.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Rafael Patiño by Cora Went, 13 April 2014, R-0709, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/20988
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Family; Migratory experience; Separation and reunification; Social networks
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Cora Went: Bueno. Yo me llamo Cora Went, y soy la entrevistadora. Le estoy entrevistando a Rafael Patiño. Es el 13 de abril de 2014 y estamos en la casa de él en los Carrboro Apartments. Ah, no. En los Carolina Apartments.
Rafael Patiño: Carolina.
CW: Sí. Bueno. Entonces mi primera pregunta es me puede describir lo que recuerde usted de salir de México y venir a los Estados Unidos?
RP: Pues yo tenía once años cuando mis padres tomaron la decisión de venir a Carolina del Norte. Mi papa ya había estado acá en Carolina doce años. Y había vivido en Shelby, y luego había vivido un tiempo en Raleigh, y después por unos amigos vino a Chapel Hill. Y vivía en los Royal Park. Yo tenía once años cuando fuimos aprobados para recibir la residencia permanente. Y recuerdo que fue una decisión muy difícil porque yo tenía mis amigos en la escuela, y tenía los maestros. Estaba a punto de graduarme de la primaria. Era una transición muy difícil. Recuerdo que aún me dio mucho sentimiento y me puse a llorar. Estuve llorando todo el día y yo le gritaba a mi mamá que yo no quería venir. Y pues, tomamos la decisión. Ya después una amiga de mi mamá fue a mi cuarto a decirme que era una mejor oportunidad para nosotros. Me dijo, “Rafael, date cuenta de que tu mamá está haciendo esto para que tengas un mejor futuro. Para que puedan vivir mejor. Y tú la tienes que apoyar.” Entonces me calmé un poco y ese día en la noche empezamos a empacar. Me acuerdo de que todavía era un niño, y empaqué todos mis juguetes. Así tenía una bolsa y la llené todo de mis juguetes. Y yo le dije a mi mamá “Porque sí me voy a ir pero no quiero dejar mis juguetes.” Yo no sabía que veníamos, me entiendes? O sea, la inocencia de un niño. No sabía que veníamos aquí. Yo me quería llevar mis juguetes. Nos vinimos con unos amigos de mi mamá en una camioneta. Y llegamos a Chicago primero porque ellos vivían en Chicago. Entonces de Celaya, Guanajuato salimos hasta Chicago, y ahí duramos como una semana con una hermana de mi mamá. Recuerdo muy bonito porque llegamos en el tiempo del invierno. Yo nunca en mi vida había tocado la nieve, o sentido el frío, porque donde vivimos en Celaya es muy cálido. Pues, me empezó a gustar. Me gustó mucho Estados Unidos y Chicago. Y conocí la nieve, jugué en la nieve, tomamos fotos, y ya después fue que tomamos un avión para Carolina del Norte. Eso fue en el 2000, 2001 -- creo que fue en el 2001. Fue en el 2001 cuando llegamos a Chapel Hill. Y llegamos [ríe] a un departamento, un departamento donde había como quince personas. Era un departamento más o menos del tamaño de aquí [muestra su cuarto, que mide más o menos cinco metros por cinco metros]. Y había como quince personas. Y llegamos a quedarnos en la sala. En ese entonces mi hermano estaba aquí. Él tenía como veinticuatro años y yo tenía once. Él nos ayudó bastante a acostumbrarnos aquí porque no sabíamos nada. Él me fue y me inscribió a la escuela, y el me fue y me llevó a tomar mis -- mis vacunas de salud, me llevó a comprar ropa, nos llevó -- él nos movía todo. Mi hermano cuando él estaba aquí -- fue la primera vez que llegábamos con el papa, y mi hermano, y por fin estábamos todos juntos. Fue el único tiempo que estuvimos viviendo juntos, porque siempre hemos estado separados.Mi hermano ha estado aquí de ilegal, y nosotros teníamos papeles. Pero como él ya se había casado, su petición de visa fue negado porque ya estaba casado. Hay ciertas reglas para hacer peticiones de visa, y lo de él había sido denegado porque un requerimiento es que no te cases antes de tener la visa. Cuando tu papá te pide -- tus padres tienen el derecho de pedir a sus relativos pero que no estén casados. Y entonces eso fue la primera vez. Empecé la escuela, y empecé hablar inglés, y aprendí un poquito más de la cultura. Pero eso es más o menos lo que recuerdo de cuando primero llegamos aquí.
CW: Por cuánto tiempo estaban todos juntos?
RP: En ese departamento estuvimos como unos cuatro meses. Y entonces era muy difícil porque era mayoría de hombres. Eran puros hombres y nada más dos mujeres que eran mi mamá, y otra esposa de otro de los señores que vivía allí. Y el señor tenía como cuatro hijos. Entonces éramos como seis, ocho hombres, la esposa, los hijos, nosotros, y para mí era muy difícil acostumbrarme porque los hijos de la señora este ya hablaban inglés. Y me decían muchas cosas que yo no comprendía, y me trataban mal. Yo era como un -- como te puedo decir -- como un rata de laboratorio. Estaba adentro y no sabía ni que hacer y ellos me hacían bromas y yo no entendía. Fue muy difícil y fue entonces cuando yo les exigí a mis papas que tenemos que encontrar un lugar donde vivir. Pues una cosa se fue a otra, que él que era encargado del departamento nos decía que éramos muchas personas y que teníamos que salir. Entonces mi hermano -- mi hermano era el único que trabajaba -- entonces juntó dinero, y fuimos a aplicar a una compañía de departamentos. Y sacamos un departamento que fue en los University Lake. Era una recámara, la cocina, el baño, el comedor y la sala. ¿Verdad?
CW: Wow. ¿Una recámara?
RP: Sí. Una recámara para cuatro personas. Entonces en la recámara estaban mis papas y una cama individual para mi, y mi hermano se quedaba en la sala. Entonces -- pero estábamos mucho mejor. Estábamos cuatro personas de ser quince, me entiendes? Y ya teníamos el baño, y podíamos hacer el baño más a gusto, bañarnos más bien. Y estuvimos más cómodos. Después mi hermano tomó la decisión de regresarse a México porque tenía a su esposa y a su hijo, y él dijo que ya mejor se iba. Nosotros le dijimos que los pensara bien porque iba a ser más difícil poder regresar después de que se fuera. Y él dijo que no. Que él quería ir a estar con su familia. Y nos dejó solos, pero nosotros ya -- mi papá ya estaba trabajando, mi mamá ya estaba trabajando, mi papá tenía un auto, yo ya estaba bien en la escuela y estaba hablando inglés, ya tenía amigos, y bueno, nos estábamos acostumbrando al nuevo estilo de vida. Aunque en el 2000, todavía era muy diferente Chapel Hill y Carrboro. No había mucha comunidad hispana todavía. Había comunidad hispana, pero no había tantas tiendas hispanas como ahora, o productos hispanos. Ahorita ya venden quesos, tortillas, pan -- muchas cosas. Hay restaurantes mexicanos, y en aquel entonces, solamente estaba un restauran mexicano que era el Cinco de Mayo. Que está en el Franklin. ¿Y cuál era el otro que ya cerró? Pero creo que era el que estaba antes donde está La Hacienda, ¿verdad? Donde está La Hacienda, pero antes se llamaba otro nombre. No recuerdo. Pero a una sí -- no había tortillas, no había la comida básica que tenemos en nuestra dieta. No había [ríe] -- no había chiles, no había -- como qué más no había -- cilantro --
CW: ¿Nopales?
MP: Nopales, no había nopales. Entonces era muy difícil, porque tenemos que vivir de la carne, o de los huevos, y mi mamá -- frijoles sí había, pero tortillas a veces las tenía que hacer ella, a mano. Porque no vendían tortillas. Vendían la masa, la masa de maíz, pero no vendían las tortillas. Y ya con un forme de tiempo, fue mejorando, mi mamá empezó a trabajar mejor, mi papá también. Yo estaba en la escuela, y me iba muy bien en la escuela. Nunca tuve ningún problema en la escuela. A excepción, claro, que los mismos maestros y los mismos estudiantes no estaban acostumbrados a una comunidad mezclada. A una diversidad de personas. Todavía nos veían como extraños. Como por qué ellos no hablan inglés, y por qué están en clases especiales, y por qué los maestros no les dejan tarea. Y así es cuando llegué al escuela no entendía nada. Y estaba en -- eran siete periodos. Y de esos siete periodos, cuatro eran de ESL [ríe].
CW: Ah sí? Wow.
MP: Entonces yo estaba todo el día metido en el salón de ESL. Porque en la entrada, había el PT. Personal Time. El primer periodo. Y después recuerdo muy bien que era Language Arts. Y después era ESL, y después era ESL, y después era almuerzo, y después era otra vez ESL, y después ESL, y al último era otra vez -- era matemáticas o era -- como se llama - el P.E. Entonces era muy difícil. Porque todo el día estábamos metidos en las clases de inglés. Era Beginners - el ESL for Beginners. Y no estaba la clase muy estructurada muy bien. La maestra se llamaba Claudia Haskings, y ella era una persona esencial en mi vida. Porque era una maestra mayor ya. Ya debía haber estado jubilada. Pero no. Se estuvo allí, y estoy diciendo más o menos del tamaño de este cuarto. No sé cuánto tendrá este cuarto. [Sería a cinco metros por cinco metros.] Era un cuarto pequeño, como para quince estudiantes, entonces imaginate quince personas aquí. Era un cuatro pequeño. Y tenía libros, y tenía imágenes, y tenía fotografías -- todo el material para poder enseñar el ESL. Y la pizarra donde (14:18) la información era pequeña también. Como de unos -- tres pies por dos. Era pequeño. Y allí ponía todo la maestra, todos los imágenes. Y la maestra no hablaba ni una palabra de español. Porque era nuevo para la comunidad. Era nueva las clases de ESL, era nuevo las clases de todos -- porque la comunidad hispano estaba apenas influyente en todas las escuelas, y en todos lados. Sí había hispanos, pero no había con sus familias. Pero nada más había trabajadores. Y después empezaban a traer los trabajadores -- empezaban a traer sus familias. Y esas familias ya tenían sus hijos. Y los hijos empezaban a ir a la escuela. Y ella nos enseñaba todo. Pero no hablaba español. Entonces quince personas que no hablaban inglés, con una persona que hablaba el inglés pero no hablaba español. [Ríe.]
CW: Qué difícil.
MP: Todos trabajábamos como una familia. Era un grupo de familia de estudiantes con la maestra. Y todos los estudiantes la veíamos como la mamá. Porque cualquier cosa -- vamos con la Mrs. Haskings. Y vámonos con la Mrs. Haskings. Y ella tenía tiempo para todo. Tenía que comer en su salón porque no tenía tiempo tampoco para almorzar. Ella metía apretado a cualquier estudiante que podía en la clase de ESL. Y después -- claro que depende de ti, porque a los tres meses me pasé de Beginner al clase Intermedio. Y a las tres meses ya tenía lo básico del inglés. El conocimiento básico del inglés a los tres meses. Que era el alfabeto, los pronombres, los días, los números, los colores. Todo ese tipo de información. Y me empecé a ir al intermedio que ya era un poquito de estructura gramática. Con un poquito de la estructura gramática. Me cambiaron de periodos, y yo lo tenía un poco diferente -- tenía la clase de matemáticas, y de ciencias. Entonces yo tenía ciencias, matemáticas, y gramática, y dos periodos de ESL, y clase de computación, y el P.E. Ya estaba mejor que cuatro periodos de ESL. Al año que estuve aquí estaba en el ESL Advanced. Entonces ya podía hablar, ya podía escribir, ya podía leer. Me tocó nada más un poco de estructura de gramática. Como hago las comas, los apóstrofes, y todo ese tipo de cosa. En ese entonces -- llevo yo ya en el eighth grade. [Empieza a jugar con el teléfono y se puede oír la vibración.] Y entonces en el eighth grade ya fue un poco más relajado. Ya tenía mis amigos, ya tenía mi -- todo muy bien. [Suena el teléfono.] Perdón.
CW: Está bien.
RP: En ese momento se enfermó mi abuela. Y allí fue otra vez cuando tuvimos unos problemas muy grandes. Se destruyó la estabilidad. La enfermedad de mi abuela fue un parálisis cerebral, un stroke le llaman aquí. Mi mamá no le importó nada. Me sacó de la escuela. Nos fuimos a México. Y los maestros me dieron trabajos para llevar a México. Me dieron libros, me dieron trabajo, tarea, para que yo pudiera completar mi año. Y cuando regresé, mi abuela no se mejoró. Entonces mi mamá solamente pudo estar allá unos meses, y después habló con sus hermanas, habló con mis tías, y después se organizaron para cuanto tiempo podían ellas cuidarla, y cuanto que podía mi mamá cuidarla. Y cuando regresé tuve que volver a repetir el ocho. Regresamos y ya no pasé a high school, tuve que volver a hacer eighth grade. Ya después de allí empecé a perder el interés de la escuela. La enfermedad de mi abuela no se detuvo, ella siguió enferma. Y ya después teníamos que ir a México cada seis meses. Entonces no me permitía hacer mi mejor trabajo en la escuela. Yo iba y todo, pero estaba pensando, “Uy, a seis meses, a México otra vez.” Tenía ese idea en la cabeza. Después de seis meses, México. Después de seis meses, México. Y mis maestros todos me ayudaron bastante. Siempre hubo mucho apoyo de parte de mis maestros. De hecho una maestra -- se llama Patricia Lewis -- ella habló con mi mamá, y le dijo que quería ser mi guardián. Porque si ella firmó unos papeles para que ella me cuidara legalmente, y que yo pudiera seguir estudiando aquí. Y mi mamá no quiso. Mi mamá fue como decir, viaja loca. “Como voy a poderle (21:08) a mi hijo, si me costó trabajo criarlo.” Pero dije “No es para que se quede conmigo, es para que yo termine estudiar.” Y no quiso. Entonces Patricia Lewis está en mi vida hasta hoy. Nos seguimos comunicando y me sigue ayudando. Conoce a mi hija. Y me sigue ayudando, salimos a comer todavía. Y pues ya después de eso ya iba en el once. En el año once. Y allí fue cuando decidí ya no ir a la escuela. Ya en el año once todas las mañanas me costaba mucho trabajo yo ir a la escuela. Me sentía presionado, me sentía aburrido, me sentía -- ya no tenía ganas de ir. Y pues empecé a echar mentiras. Ya no tomé el bus escolar. Ya no tomé el autobús escolar, y le decía a mi mamá que iba en el autobús de la ciudad. Porque era la Carrboro High. Y entonces yo le decía a mi mamá [ríe], “Yo me voy en el J,” le decía. “Ah sí, yo me voy a trabajar. Que Dios te acompañe.” Y yo agarraba - sí agarraba el autobús J, pero me bajaba en el Franklin, y pues allí me pasaba haciéndome tonto. En la calle. Ya regresaba a la casa y almorzaba, y ya después llegaba mi mamá, y como si nada. Esto duré como dos meses, que ni se dio cuenta de que no iba a la escuela. Hasta que empezaron a hablar a la escuela porque yo tenía muchas faltas. Y entonces ya, una vez hablaron en la tarde, y mamá contestó. Que Rafael ya tiene más que treinta ausencias, y que me iban a tener que expulsar. Y me regaño. Que por qué no estaba yendo a la escuela, que ella me confiaba que iba a la escuela. Le dije, “Sabes qué? Ya no quiero ir a la escuela. Ya mejor no quiero ir a la escuela.” Y se me juntó todo en eso entonces eran mis abuelos, que estaban enfermos, y mi mamá estaba aprensionada, y a cada rato se iba a México. A cada rato se iba a México. Y después mi papá tuvo la enfermedad que tiene ahora que es la deficiencia renal. Y él ha sido diabético ya por más de veinticinco años. Pero la deficiencia renal le llegó como sorpresa, porque nosotros no sabíamos nada. Él estaba muy hinchado, y tenía mucho sueño, y no podía hacer nada, y no sabíamos por qué. Entonces hasta que le dio un ataque de deficiencia renal, y se llevó completamente desmayada. Y hablamos a 911, y vinieron por él, y ya nos dijeron que sus riñones ya no funcionaban. Que le iban a tener que hacer diálisis. Entonces imagínate todo eso. Yo tenía como dieciséis años. Imagínate toda esa presión, y la responsabilidad, que pasó. Porque aún todavía estoy con ellos, aunque tengo mi esposa y tengo mi hija. Pero todavía estoy con ellos -- pero ellos no hablan inglés, ellos no se saben mover. Han vivido aquí también quince años pero ellos no conocen el lugar. Entonces para todo soy yo. Rafa, ayúdanos a pagar los biles. Rafa, sacanos una cita. Rafa, acompaña. Rafa, tengo que ir al hospital. Rafa, tenemos que ir a la tienda. Rafa, tenemos que comprar ropa, tenemos que mandar esto. Entonces en vez de yo ser el hijo, ellos son como mis hijos. Pero no me quejo porque yo digo que eso es que nos estaba mantenido como una familia unida. Ellos -- yo lo veo así. Cuando estaba bebe y ellos hacían mis pantalones, ellos nunca se quejaban. Cuando estaba bebe y lloraba, o quería salir, o quería caminar, ellos nunca se quejaban. Entonces yo tampoco tengo porque quejar. Ahora que mi mamá tiene sesenta y cinco años, y mi papá tiene sesenta y tres, y yo tengo veinticuatro, no me tengo porque quejar. Ellos me cuidaron, yo a ellos les voy a cuidar. Y no me cuesta nada. Sí, me desespero, por supuesto. Pero no creo que dure por cien años. Así que mientras lo puedo hacer y los tenga, lo voy a aprovechar.
CW: Y en el - en el momento en que su madre le sacó de la escuela, como se sentía al principio usted?
RP: Como me sentía? Me sentía triste, porque yo tenía muchos ilusiones. Yo quería ser un doctor. Y mis calefacciones siempre fueron buenos. No fui siempre un grado A, pero era A o B. A o B, A o B. Siempre en todo. Y todos los maestros me apoyaban. Estoy diciendo esto líticamente porque mis maestros me apoyaban. Me decían Rafael, es que tú vas a ser alguien en la vida. Rafael, tú eres muy inteligente, y hasta nosotros estamos aprendiendo de ti, Rafael. Todos los maestros. [Suena el teléfono.] Y entonces yo me sentía muy triste, porque era una ilusión mía. Mi ilusión era poder graduarme, poder tener una carrera. Que no tenía idea por supuesto tampoco de las exigencias que se podían en ese tiempo tampoco. Cuando me sacó de la escuela por primera vez, yo dije yo tengo que regresar y continuar con mi escuela. Y luego, salimos por unos meses, regresé, y tuve que volver a hacer el grado ocho. No me importó. Yo lo volví a hacer. Volví a tomar las mismas clases, volví a tomar los mismos exámenes, volví a hacer lo que ya había hecho. Y pasé a high school. Entonces de hecho sí me debe haber graduado, porque cuando estaba en el año once, debería haber sido el año doce. Entonces ahí fue por eso también cuando me fastidié. Cuando volví a repetir el año ocho, se me retrasó un año de high school. Entonces ya cuando entré a high school fue una cosa diferente pero yo nunca me quité ese pensamiento, en mi cabeza, que iba a graduar. Y que tenía que hacer algo mejor. Yo fui un estudiante solitario. Yo no tenía amigos, yo no tenía compañeros, yo no tenía preferencias, de irme a sentar a algún lado, yo no supe nada de que fue ser popular, o de esas cosas de que la cultura escolar se consiste. Yo no sabía nada de eso. Yo fui un estudiante solitario. Yo llegaba a la escuela, estudiaba, iba a mis clases, hacía lo que tenía que hacer. Y en el almuerzo, yo llevaba mi almuerzo de la casa, y me iba y me sentaba debajo de un árbol, me ponía a leer, y comía. O después, había extra credit, y yo me iba al salón del maestro, hacía el extra credit, almorzaba con ellos, y después volví a hacer la clase. Entonces yo nunca fui como de - nunca me esquipé a la escuela, nunca ¿?. Entonces mis maestros me dijeron, “Es que tu no necesitas el extra credit.” Y dije, “No me importa, no tengo nada que hacer.” Nadie me hablaba en la escuela. Los hispanos no me hablaban, los americanos no me hablaban, los morenos no me hablaban. Tuve amigos muy elegidos, solamente en la escuela. Todavía estoy en contacto con ellos. Solamente tenía como tres amigos [ríe]. Y todavía me comunico con ellos. Lamentablemente, el año pasado falleció uno. Se llamaba David. David Quiroz. Y él fue mi amigo en Middle School. Tenía su familia, tenía una hija y un hijo, y pues murió en un accidente de carro. Pues esos eran mis amigos. Eso era high school ya. El middle school fue algo bonito. En high school ya fue un poco más aburrido. No tenía los challenges que yo esperaba, fui a algebra y me la comí como si fuera agua. Fui a geometría, e igual me la tomé como si fuera agua. En ciencias empecé earth sciences y -- por favor, earth sciences. Y después empecé con physical science y pues, más o menos, dije, no está tan mal. Lo que se quejan todos es la biología, pero a mi no me hizo complicado. Y después en matemáticas, empecé con el calculus, y ahí fue cuando empecé a decir okay, mejor me había quedado en geometría. Y tenía muy buenas calificaciones, y como terminé -- para el once grado, tenía dos tiempos libres. Tenía dos free periods porque ya no había otras clases que podía tomar. Porque ese año yo ya debería haber estado en el doce. Pero como hubo un retraso, y todos me decían nada más espérate un año, espérate un año, espérate un año, y yo nada más quería esperar. No me aguanto venir un año más a este ambiente de la escuela. Me empezaban a ofrecer los maestros el middle college, que son clases prematuras para el colegio, y yo no quise. Todos mis maestros me empujaban. Estudie, estudie, estudie, vas a ser un doctor, estudie, estudie. Y yo dije no, no, no, ya no quiero. Ya no me llama la atención la escuela. Ya no quiero. Ya me fastidié. Y había becas que me habían ofrecido, y yo no quise nada. Yo creo que en ese momento yo no debería estar aquí pero debería estar estudiando, a lo mejor tendría una carrera, pero no sé. Estoy muy feliz con mi vida. Muchos de mis amigos se graduaron, pero tienen una vida muy atareada. Sus relaciones están mal, sus matriones, y la relación con sus papás, no siguiera se ven. Yo no me quejo de nada. No tengo ni un carrera, no -- ya terminé me G.E.D., eso sí lo terminé, pero no tengo carrera. Pero no me falta nada.
CW: Como conocieron usted y su esposa en México?
RP: Como nos conocimos? Yo me gusta la música. Yo toco la guitarra y yo canto. Y la religión es muy importante para mi -- expresarlo con la música. Entonces yo, desde hace doce años, toco la guitarra. Y la primera vez que fuimos a México cuando me sacaban de la escuela de aquí, me metí a lo que se llama a una rondalla. Una rondalla de mujeres. No había hombres. Pero mi prima estaba organizando la rondalla de mujeres, y yo en ese entonces había tomado clases de música aquí en Estados Unidos, y toco el piano. Y me dijo ella si podía ayudarlas con el piano, y le dijo que sí. Y entonces empecé a asistir a la misa, y a cantar en la misa. Ya después de unos diez años, empecé a ir a otras comunidades, y en uno de esas comunidades, mi esposa estaba en un coro. Y entonces, fue como una conexión automática. Pero yo no le hablé, y ella no me habló. Fue nada más que nos mirábamos, nos veíamos, nos mirábamos, y ya después pasó un año. Pasó un año, y -- eso fue en el 2011. Eso ya fue en el 2011. Pero yo la conocí creo que en el 2010. Y pasó un año, y en el 2011 regreso a México, y la vuelvo a ver. Y entonces le invito a salir. Y le invito a salir, y vamos a comer, y empezamos a salir. Fue una conexión muy bonita. Yo creo que fue por el destino de Dios. Ella lo sabe así que no tengo miedo que se sepa pero ella ya sabe porque yo platico con ella muy bien. Tenemos una relación muy abierta. Yo tuve muchas novias aquí en Estados Unidos. Tuve novias de España, Venezuela, Colombia, Honduras, Guatemala, México. De todas partes. Y en México también tenía muchas novias. Con ninguna de las novias que yo tenía me había sentido como ella. Ella era algo diferente.Tenemos mucho en común. A veces nos ponemos a pensar, a platicar, y nos quedamos de -- no puedo creer que tengamos tantas cosas en común. O sea, nos gusta la misma música, nos gusta vestirnos bien, nos gusta -- nunca nos peleamos. Si es por estar juntos, nunca nos hemos peleado. Discutimos por problemas que pasan fuera. Como que si nos olvidó comprar algo, o que si su mamá le dijo algo, o que sus hermanas se pelean, o con mi mamá también -- de eso discutimos. Pero de lo que vestimos, comemos, o como nos comportamos, o como hablamos, todo tenemos en común. Todo. Los mismos colores -- nos gusta vestirnos igual. Como los colores. Si pone unos jeans y una blusa rosa, yo me pongo unos jeans y una camisa rosa.
CW: [Ríe.] Ah, sí?
RP: Si yo me pongo, por ejemplo, esta ropa, ella también se pone algo. Yo le compro su ropa. Y a ella le gusta la ropa que le compre, y yo le compro su ropa interior, le compro su ropa, le compro su maquillaje, sus perfumas. Y todo esto nos gusta. Todo tenemos un común, desde la comida que nos gusta, hasta cuando tenemos que ir al baño. Ha habido veces que cuando llegamos las dos -- “ya me paso el baño.” “A mí también me paso el baño.” “Por qué te aguantaste?” “Porque tú no me decías!” Y entonces nos tenemos que pasar al baño y todo. Entonces la forma en que yo le conocí fue muy bonita porque entonces ese día había un jaripeo en mi pueblo. Un jaripeo es una cosa en que montan los toros. Y le hablé, le dije, “Oye, hay un jaripeo en el pueblo, y voy a estar aquí con el caballo, y quiero -- si no podías venir.” Y me dijo que sí. Pues sí, a la media hora llegó con unas amigas y con otros amigos, novios de las amigas. Ella llegó, y me dio un beso, y fue la primera vez que estuvimos así juntos en una fiesta. Conviviendo juntos. Yo nunca le había dicho que fuera mi novia. O sea, nos veíamos y nos hablábamos, pero dije, yo no le voy a decir que sea mi novia. Si quiere que sea mi novio que ella me diga. Pero como los dos pensamos igual, ella también decía, si él no me dice que sea su novia, yo no le voy a decir nada. Entonces pensábamos igual. Ese día, yo ya había tomado un poco, y estaba tomado. Y me dijo, “Me vas a decir que sea tu novia? Sí o no.” Y le dije, “Sí! Quieres ser mi novia?” Y ella me sonrió y me dijo, “Sí, quiero ser tu novia.” Y entonces después le dije, “Bueno, y por qué nada más mi novia? Quieres ser mi esposa?”
CW: Ah, wow!
RP: Y entonces, se le hizo la sonrisa más grande, y me miró, y me dijo, “Sí, sí quiero ser tu esposa.” Y entonces no estuvimos novios. No fuimos novios mucho tiempo.
CW: Unos segundos, no?
RP: [Ríe.] Sí. Pero algo en mi corazón me dijo que era ideal. Ese día en la noche yo fui por ella. Entonces ni siquiera se lo platicábamos a sus papás, ni nada. Yo fui a la casa de su amiga, fui por ella y la llevé a mi casa. Y el otro día [ríe] fue algo bien raro porque llegó mi hermano y le dije, “Carnal, pues es que, ya le traje a mi novia,” y mi hermano se quedó mirando por arriba. Dijo, “A tu novia?” Y le dije, “Sí, mi novia ya está conmigo aquí.” Y me dijo, “Estás loco, huey,” dijo, “estás loco, huey.” Y le dije, “No, en serio. Ya me la traje.” Y hablé con mi esposa y le dije, “Maria Elena, sal por favor, porque él es mi hermano.” Y mi hermano no fumaba. Pero estaba una caja de cigarros allí. Se acabó la caja de cigarros en ese momento. Empezó [inhala, fingiendo fumar in cigarro] “No, está bien,” [inhala] y fuma, fuma fuma. Y me dijo, “Ya le dijiste a mi mamá?” Y le dije, “No, pues por eso te quería decir a ti primero.” Más empezó a fumar y dijo, “No les ha dicho a mi mamá?” Y dije, “No.” Porque cuando él se llevó a su esposa mi mamá sí le dio una buena regañada. Pensó que conmigo iba a ser peor. Pero, pues no. Ya saludaron y todo, y en ese -- estaba en México. Pero ya después regresé a los tres meses para trabajar. Y sí, nada más fue de un día. Mi esposa fue de un día, nada más. Pero teníamos tiempo ya saliendo, me entiendes? O sea, teníamos como un año hablando diario y saliendo juntos. Pero ninguno de los dos nos dijimos que nos gustábamos. Entonces fue algo muy chistoso porque -- sí nos queríamos y nos gustábamos, pero no quería decirle, “Quieres ser mi novia?” Yo quería decirle, “Quieres ser mi esposa?” [Los dos ríen.]
CW: A qué hora tiene que salir usted?
RP: Como a las cuatro.
CW: Bueno, está bien. Me puede contar como era el proceso de decidir a tener un bebe con ella? Y que tipo de cosas consideraban ustedes?
RP: Pues, la decisión de tomar un bebé, yo lo pensé mucho. Porque no me quería encontrar en la situación en que estoy ahorita. Yo estoy aquí, y mi esposa y mi hija están en México. Yo no me quería encontrar en esa situación. Porque yo le quería primero arreglar papeles a mi esposa. Entonces yo le decía que esperara. Yo le decía, “Esperamos hasta que te arreglen papeles.” Y ella se esperó dos años, y no pasaba nada con los papeles. Yo estaba ya en proceso. En el año en que nos dijeron que iba a procesar su visa era en que dijo que ya quería tener un bebé. Ella me dijo, “Ya me quiero tener un bebé. Porque cuando tú te vas yo me siento sola.” Y le dije, “Es que, deberíamos esperar unos cinco años. Hay que esperar unos cinco años. Ahorita tenemos tres años. Tenemos que esperar unos cinco años para estar juntos.” Y ella no quiso, y dijo que quería un bebé. Y pues si tu mujer te dice que quiere un bebé, pues el hombre se pone a trabajar. Entonces que nos pusimos a trabajar bien fuerte. Y pues sí, este diciembre se quedó embarazada. Tuve vacaciones en el trabajo en mayo, junio, julio y agosto, y no pasó nada. Y regresé a trabajar, y dieron otras vacaciones en diciembre. Y pues en diciembre como fue la noche buena, de navidad, nos pusimos a trabajar bien duro. Y todo -- pues sí. Quedó embarazada. Y cuando ella quedó embarazada ha sido la noticia más -- más -- más bonita en el mundo. Estaba buscando otra palabra pero no me acuerdo. Es que es un esfuerzo que toman dos seres humanos para poder hacer una vida. No es el morbo de hacer el amor. Es el privilegio de poder crear una vida por el medio del amor dos personas. Verdad? Entonces es una noticia muy -- ay, no sé como decirlo en Español -- rewarding. Y pues ella no sabía -- para eso entonces, yo me quedé en diciembre, pero en enero regresé. Pero en el ciclo menstrual de las mujeres, a ella su ciclo no estuvo en enero. Y dije, “Eh? Pues quien sabe porque no?” Pero después llegó febrero, y dije, “Ok, ahora sí tienes que ir al doctor.” Y fue al doctor, y me dijo los análisis, y me dijo, “Aquí nada más la prueba dice que no sé qué, es positiva,” y dijo, “no, mañana me voy con el doctor, no creo que salga el pronóstico que esté embarazada.” Y le dije, “estás embarazada!” Y me dijo, “Ya, que mañana voy con la doctora y ella me va a decir que”-- y no lo quiso creer. Hasta el otro día me habló y me dijo, “Mi amor, estoy embarazada.” Y le dije, “Sí, eso es que ya te dije!”
CW: Ya lo supo usted.
RP: Estamos bien felices. Y aunque estemos separados, nuestra relación es muy bonita. Aunque a muchas personas nos decimos que somos ridículos. Porque por ejemplo ahorita ella va a salir con su mamá, y me está diciendo, “Oye, voy a salir. Y alcancé el camión. Ya me bajé del camión.” Yo también, le digo, “Voy a estar ocupado. Voy a salir a la tienda con mis papas.” Nos comunicamos mucho. Eso hace que la distancia simplemente sea como un obstáculo insignificante. Porque la distancia física no puede derrotar a la cercamiento sentimental que podemos tener. Entonces así puede estar ella a seis mil millas, pero en mi mente y en mi corazón están ella y mi hija. Tan solo ver un mensaje -- y gracias a tecnología, verdad -- el iPhone, con el Facetime -- magnífico. Entonces nos podemos hablar y ver a cualquier hora. Sí las extraño. Quisiera estar con mi hija, poderla abrazar, poderla besar. También a mi esposa. Pero ahora comprendo todo el esfuerzo todo el esfuerzo que mi madre ha hecho para que estemos bien. Se está pagando ahora. Porque yo puedo darle un mejor futuro a mi hija, y a mi familia. Se está demostrando que todo el sufrimiento que pasaron mis papas, ahora lo voy a poder pagárselos con poder tener a mi familia mejor. Sí, sí es un privilegio poder estar aquí en Estados Unidos legalmente. Pero las reglas de inmigración tienen que cambiar. Y tienen que cambiar ya. Porque cuando los pilgrimeses tomaron la decisión de viajar al nuevo mundo, dejaron todo atrás, verdad? Sin importarles. Nosotros no podemos ser así. Tenemos que ver para un mejor futuro para el mundo, y para el país, verdad? Entonces yo tengo la posibilidad más fácil para arreglarles los documentos a mi familia. Pero también les estoy dejando sufrir. Para que ellas también valoren lo que uno que tiene venir aquí a vivir. Es un país que todavía está gobernado por la mayoría de la raza - pues es la anglosajona, la blanca, la caucásica. Y que tenemos que aprender a compartirlo. Todo se puede. Todo se puede, nada más. Con mucha paciencia. Pero sí, la separación de mi familia es muy dura. La separación de mi familia es muy dura. Pero también me enseña a mí a valorarlas. Hay personas que están juntos diarios pero ya ni siquiera quieren estar juntos. Como que, “Oy, ya va a llegar mi marido. Oy, los niños, los bebés.” Y nosotros no. Porque aunque sea unos tres meses que estoy aquí, cuando yo regrese, yo ya la extraño. Quiero sentir su amor, ya quiero sentir sus abrazos, sus besos. Y ella por igual. Hay ese movimiento interno que hace querer a la persona más. Y nos ayuda. Porque hay otras personas que están en relaciones así, pues terminan. Porque no, “seguramente estás con otra mujer,” o “estás con otro hombre.” Y nosotros pasamos por problemas así. Pero lo manejamos muy bien, porque nos confiamos todo. Y somos muy -- yo digo que estamos muy enamorados.
CW: Sí. Es aparente eso. Cuales son sus planes para el futuro de su familia?
RP: Para el futuro de mi familia. Pues uno sin duda quiero trabajar muy duro. Tengo unas expectativas muy altas, de que -- yo he trabajado muy bien como asistente administrativo. Y me da muy buen dinero, pero no lo quiere invertir tampoco aquí, hasta que esté con mi familia. Entonces lo que quiero con mi futuro es invertir por ejemplo en lo que ahora es mi vivienda, invertir en mi vivienda en México, y en mis bienes. Para poder estar en México necesitamos un carro, necesitamos una casa -- la casa ya está pero necesitamos terminarla de construir. Y mi esposa es muy -- le gusta ahorrar. Ella es muy ahorrativa. Yo le mando ahorita por semana 120 dólares por semana. Y eso se hace in México como 1400 pesos. De esos 1400 pesos ahorra 200 pesos en una cuenta de ahorros. Al mes, ahorra 800 pesos. Entonces al mes, como ochenta dólares. Al año va a ser 1600. Nos gusta ahorrar mucho, y nos gusta comprar cosas cuando podemos comprar. Por ejemplo de esos 1400 pesos ella compra su mandado, que esto se gasta como otros sesenta dólares, y lo compra para toda la semana. Compra vegetales, carnes, todo todo todo. Y lo que sobra, lo usa para poder estar en la casa. Que ella necesita comprar otras cosas. Y yo acá, casi no gasta dinero. Muy poco rara la vez que compro ropa. No me gusta gastar el dinero en estupideces como cerveza, o vino. Ahorita no tengo auto. No pago seguranza de automóvil. Lo único que tengo es mi celular y el internet. La ropa (56:41). Entonces, si eres inteligente, si sabes administrar -- soy administrador. [Ríe.] Entonces sé administrar muy bien mi dinero. Ha habido veces que cuando he estado trabajando diario por unos seis meses, hemos ahorrado hasta lo de 2000 dólares en dos meses. Entonces por ejemplo, el nacimiento del bebé, no nos costó nada de trabajo. Porque nosotros en cuánto supimos que estaba embarazada, hicimos un cuento de ahorro. Y juntamos 3000 dólares. Para todo lo de la bebé. Con eso, pagamos lo de la bebé, compramos ropa de bebé. Por eso estuve yo sin trabajar seis meses, con los 3000 dólares del ahorro. Y lo administramos todo perfectamente. No nos faltó más, ni menos. Y entonces yo digo que en mi futuro lo que quiero hacer es ahorrar otra vez, y quiero hacer unos complejos de departamentos en México. Porque te voy a decir sincera: de invertir aquí, a invertir en mi país, mejor voy a invertir en mi país. Aquí si para poder empezar una compañía -- sí sé como empezar mi compañía aquí, porque he estado administrando compañías, quisiera abrir una compañía aquí que sea “LLC,” una compañía de “Limited Liability Company,” verdad? Pero me gustaría primero invertir en mi país, y traerles a mi esposa y mi hija aquí, pero sinceramente lo que es la primera educación de mi hija, lo que es los primeros seis años de su educación, voy a querer que estudie en México y no aquí. Porque también tiene que saber de donde viene. Y tiene que acostumbrarse a sus raíces. Y que no crezca como un hispanoamericano. No me gustan los hispanoamericanos. Porque tienen muchos pensamientos diferentes aparte de los de su cultura. [Vibra el teléfono.] Yo quiero que ella estudie allá los primeros años, que venga acá a visitar unos tiempos. Y lo que es su escuela intermedia, a avanzada, que pues hace aquí. Sí hay mas oportunidades aquí. En Estados Unidos tienen una estructura educativa mejor que en México. Yo creo que a eso es lo que me voy a dedicar -- a poder hacer un complejo en México, a terminar nuestra casa, a terminar una casa para mis padres, invertir más en lo que es el real estate. Y espero que a mis cuarenta, cuarenta y cinco años esté bien en el real estate. Y poder vivir de mis propiedades. En mi futuro, ya a los cuarenta y cinco años, yo ya quiero estar establecido.
CW: Y quiere vivir en México o aquí a los cuarenta años?
RP: A mis cuarenta y cinco años quiero estar en México. De aquí voy a estar en los Estados Unidos, voy a traer a mi familia, y vamos a estar aquí. Tal vez vamos a comprar una casa aquí con mis papas. No podemos irnos a México ahorita porque mi papá está con su tratamiento aquí. Y mi hermano está en proceso de recibir sus papeles. Entonces yo digo que todo nos va a venir mejor. Yo pienso que este año todo lo veo positivo, y que vamos a salir adelante.
CW: Tengo una pregunta más. Me puede describir como quieres ser involucrado con la crianza de su bebé, con su hija, mientras ella está en México?
RP: Pues, hasta ahorita la bebé tiene seis meses. No tiene mucho, verdad? Pero aún así, los primeros cuatro meses de la vida de la bebé, estuve con ella. Entonces conoce mi voz, conoce mi cara, y cuando hablo con ella por teléfono, o estamos hablando por Facetime, la niña se ríe. La niña me conoce. La mamá la está inculcando a ver mi foto. Le habla de mí. Le está platicando cosas -- no empezamos de hablarle de bebé, como de “Uy, niña” [en voz que uno usa con los bebés], no. “Hola, como estás, buenos días, ya despertaste.” Y ella entiende, y se ríe. O entonces le digo, “Angeles,” y ya voltea. Entonces ella ya empieza a entender. Ahorita más que nada voy a estar involucrado en que no le falte nada económicamente. Ahorita pienso que lo más importante es lo económicamente. La mamá le cuida bien, le da de comer muy bien, entonces lo importante es que no se enferme, que tenga los cuidados apropiados. Verdad? Y en el futuro, ya cuando empiece a hablar, o cuando empiece a entender más, como tengo el conocimiento de inglés, entonces la voy a empezar con esa consciencia bilingüe. Me entiendes? Entonces vamos a poder hablar español y vamos a poder hablar inglés. Entonces eso la va a hacer un poco más despierta. Y con ese conocimiento yo creo que mi hijo va a tener oportunidades mejor que yo porque yo me considero una persona visionaria, que no va nada más lo que tienes aquí [pone la mano en frente de la cara]. Me gusta ver más en frente. Me gusta aprender cosas nuevas. Me gusta mantenerme al tanto de las cosas, de cómo está funcionando. No tengo la educación tal vez apropiada, pero puedo mantener conversaciones apropiadas con una persona rica o con una persona pobre, y yo creo que estoy en el mejor. En lo mejor de los dos. Tengo una estructura educativa mezclada, que me permite estar en lo mejor de los dos mundos. Entonces mi hija tiene que superar eso y espero criarla de una manera como mi crió mi mamá también. Porque somos una familia unida, somos una familia que preocupa por si tu papá, tu hermano, o tu primo sí comió o no comió. Entonces si no comió, ven a comer. Si comió pues viene, vamos a estar todos juntos. Los valores y los principios de una familia son muy importantes para mostrar quien vas a ser en el futuro.
CW: Bueno. Yo no tengo nada más. Hay algo que quiere usted añadir?
RF: Pues no. No sé si tengas otras preguntas, de por qué elegimos estar aquí en Chapel Hill. La decisión casi fue de mi papá. Así que no sé que haiga sido el motivo de él para estar aquí, pero si algún día que llegaras a ver que por qué Chapel Hill? Chapel Hill es una ciudad con alma. Es una comunidad con alma, porque seas de donde seas, o vengas de donde vengas, Chapel Hill te va a abrir las puertas a su casa. Las personas aquí tienen una personalidad muy amable, muy abierta. Son muy detallistas y son muy precavidos y son muy educados y son una de las personas comunidades en que yo he estado viviendo. Y poder decir que yo me crié aquí es un orgullo. Porque pues sí, desde los once años estoy aquí, entonces sí me crié en la ciudad de Chapel Hill. Verdad? Y Carrboro. Yo digo que ya en vez de Carrboro y Chapel Hill deberían dar un nombre. [Ríen los dos.]
CW: Claro, de acuerdo.
RF: Como Charrboro o algo así. [Ríen los dos.] Pero sí, es un pequeño pueblito con alma. Yo lo puedo expresar así. Es un pueblo con alma. Vive. Vive por la gente. Vive por la gente que está aquí. Y cualquier persona que venga, aunque sea por un día o dos días, se va a enamorar. Porque tienes lo mejor del sur, verdad? De la región del sur, pero ya tienes otras cosas, como las personas que vienen del norte, las personas que vienen del este. Es un pueblo mezclado que te permite poder estar con diferentes personas. No lo cambiaría por nada. Aunque es muy caro. [Ríen los dos.] Es muy caro pero -- pero he viajado a otros lugares, y sinceramente, de donde yo soy de Celaya, de Celaya, Guanajuato a Chapel Hill, es como si estuviera en mi casa. No le encuentro diferente. En Celaya porque está mi familia y todo. Pero aquí en Chapel Hill también tengo familia. Tengo amigos. Puedo salir caminando sin preocuparme que me van a meter un balazo. Puedo manejar. Puedo salir en bicicleta. Hay tantas cosas aquí, verdad? Y está en el medio. Tiene el mejor de Raleigh, de Durham, de Greensboro, de todo eso. Es como una conexión. Entonces estamos en un muy buen sitio, y el único que quisiera es que pudiera abrir más oportunidades. Más oportunidades para las personas que necesitan casa. Las casas son aquí es ridículamente muy cara. Entonces imaginase, si el pueblo de Chapel Hill se puso a pensar “Ok, vivimos bien, pero vamos a hacer esto mejor.” Para qué están construyendo el centro con edificios nuevos? Debían haber hecho un complejo con casas nuevas. A precios accesibles, para que le gente pueda venir a vivir. Eso es lo que deberían haber hecho, en mi opinión. Pero aún así, no lo cambiaría por nada. Estoy muy feliz de vivir aquí. [Entra el papá de Rafael y le dice algo.]
CW: Bueno.
RF: Listo?
CW: Sí.
RF: Muy bien.
CW: Muchas gracias. Voy a apagar.
RF: No, por nada, espero que --
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Asistentes administrativos
Es: Género de entrevistado
Hombre
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Español
Es: Resumen
Patiño, un residente permanente de los Estados Unidos quien emigró desde México con su familia cuando tenía once años, aprendió inglés en la escuela y se ajustó fácilmente a la vida en los Estados Unidos. En el octavo grado, Patiño dejó la escuela para viajar con su madre a México para ayudar a cuidar a su abuela enferma y cuando retornó él no tenía la motivación de continuar estudiando, eventualmente abandonando sus estudios en el undécimo grado. Patiño cuenta cómo conoció a su esposa y explica la decisión de tener un hijo aun cuando Patiño se quedaría en los Estados Unidos y ellos se quedarían viviendo en México. Afortunadamente, a través de la tecnología y de tener un trabajo que le permite viajar a México a menudo, él puede mantenerse en contacto con su esposa e hijo. Patiño comparte los planes de su familia en el futuro, compara su vida en Chapel Hill y Celaya, y dice que le gustaría traer a su familia a los Estados Unidos por un rato, pero prefiere invertir en propiedades en México y retirarse allá.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Rafael Patiño por Cora Went, 13 Abril 2014, R-0709, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Familia; Experiencia migratoria; Separación y reunificación; Redes sociales
Es: Transcripción
Cora Went: Bueno. Yo me llamo Cora Went, y soy la entrevistadora. Le estoy entrevistando a Rafael Patiño. Es el 13 de abril de 2014 y estamos en la casa de él en los Carrboro Apartments. Ah, no. En los Carolina Apartments.
Rafael Patiño: Carolina.
CW: Sí. Bueno. Entonces mi primera pregunta es me puede describir lo que recuerde usted de salir de México y venir a los Estados Unidos?
RP: Pues yo tenía once años cuando mis padres tomaron la decisión de venir a Carolina del Norte. Mi papa ya había estado acá en Carolina doce años. Y había vivido en Shelby, y luego había vivido un tiempo en Raleigh, y después por unos amigos vino a Chapel Hill. Y vivía en los Royal Park. Yo tenía once años cuando fuimos aprobados para recibir la residencia permanente. Y recuerdo que fue una decisión muy difícil porque yo tenía mis amigos en la escuela, y tenía los maestros. Estaba a punto de graduarme de la primaria. Era una transición muy difícil. Recuerdo que aún me dio mucho sentimiento y me puse a llorar. Estuve llorando todo el día y yo le gritaba a mi mamá que yo no quería venir. Y pues, tomamos la decisión. Ya después una amiga de mi mamá fue a mi cuarto a decirme que era una mejor oportunidad para nosotros. Me dijo, “Rafael, date cuenta de que tu mamá está haciendo esto para que tengas un mejor futuro. Para que puedan vivir mejor. Y tú la tienes que apoyar.” Entonces me calmé un poco y ese día en la noche empezamos a empacar. Me acuerdo de que todavía era un niño, y empaqué todos mis juguetes. Así tenía una bolsa y la llené todo de mis juguetes. Y yo le dije a mi mamá “Porque sí me voy a ir pero no quiero dejar mis juguetes.” Yo no sabía que veníamos, me entiendes? O sea, la inocencia de un niño. No sabía que veníamos aquí. Yo me quería llevar mis juguetes. Nos vinimos con unos amigos de mi mamá en una camioneta. Y llegamos a Chicago primero porque ellos vivían en Chicago. Entonces de Celaya, Guanajuato salimos hasta Chicago, y ahí duramos como una semana con una hermana de mi mamá. Recuerdo muy bonito porque llegamos en el tiempo del invierno. Yo nunca en mi vida había tocado la nieve, o sentido el frío, porque donde vivimos en Celaya es muy cálido. Pues, me empezó a gustar. Me gustó mucho Estados Unidos y Chicago. Y conocí la nieve, jugué en la nieve, tomamos fotos, y ya después fue que tomamos un avión para Carolina del Norte. Eso fue en el 2000, 2001 -- creo que fue en el 2001. Fue en el 2001 cuando llegamos a Chapel Hill. Y llegamos [ríe] a un departamento, un departamento donde había como quince personas. Era un departamento más o menos del tamaño de aquí [muestra su cuarto, que mide más o menos cinco metros por cinco metros]. Y había como quince personas. Y llegamos a quedarnos en la sala. En ese entonces mi hermano estaba aquí. Él tenía como veinticuatro años y yo tenía once. Él nos ayudó bastante a acostumbrarnos aquí porque no sabíamos nada. Él me fue y me inscribió a la escuela, y el me fue y me llevó a tomar mis -- mis vacunas de salud, me llevó a comprar ropa, nos llevó -- él nos movía todo. Mi hermano cuando él estaba aquí -- fue la primera vez que llegábamos con el papa, y mi hermano, y por fin estábamos todos juntos. Fue el único tiempo que estuvimos viviendo juntos, porque siempre hemos estado separados.Mi hermano ha estado aquí de ilegal, y nosotros teníamos papeles. Pero como él ya se había casado, su petición de visa fue negado porque ya estaba casado. Hay ciertas reglas para hacer peticiones de visa, y lo de él había sido denegado porque un requerimiento es que no te cases antes de tener la visa. Cuando tu papá te pide -- tus padres tienen el derecho de pedir a sus relativos pero que no estén casados. Y entonces eso fue la primera vez. Empecé la escuela, y empecé hablar inglés, y aprendí un poquito más de la cultura. Pero eso es más o menos lo que recuerdo de cuando primero llegamos aquí.
CW: Por cuánto tiempo estaban todos juntos?
RP: En ese departamento estuvimos como unos cuatro meses. Y entonces era muy difícil porque era mayoría de hombres. Eran puros hombres y nada más dos mujeres que eran mi mamá, y otra esposa de otro de los señores que vivía allí. Y el señor tenía como cuatro hijos. Entonces éramos como seis, ocho hombres, la esposa, los hijos, nosotros, y para mí era muy difícil acostumbrarme porque los hijos de la señora este ya hablaban inglés. Y me decían muchas cosas que yo no comprendía, y me trataban mal. Yo era como un -- como te puedo decir -- como un rata de laboratorio. Estaba adentro y no sabía ni que hacer y ellos me hacían bromas y yo no entendía. Fue muy difícil y fue entonces cuando yo les exigí a mis papas que tenemos que encontrar un lugar donde vivir. Pues una cosa se fue a otra, que él que era encargado del departamento nos decía que éramos muchas personas y que teníamos que salir. Entonces mi hermano -- mi hermano era el único que trabajaba -- entonces juntó dinero, y fuimos a aplicar a una compañía de departamentos. Y sacamos un departamento que fue en los University Lake. Era una recámara, la cocina, el baño, el comedor y la sala. ¿Verdad?
CW: Wow. ¿Una recámara?
RP: Sí. Una recámara para cuatro personas. Entonces en la recámara estaban mis papas y una cama individual para mi, y mi hermano se quedaba en la sala. Entonces -- pero estábamos mucho mejor. Estábamos cuatro personas de ser quince, me entiendes? Y ya teníamos el baño, y podíamos hacer el baño más a gusto, bañarnos más bien. Y estuvimos más cómodos. Después mi hermano tomó la decisión de regresarse a México porque tenía a su esposa y a su hijo, y él dijo que ya mejor se iba. Nosotros le dijimos que los pensara bien porque iba a ser más difícil poder regresar después de que se fuera. Y él dijo que no. Que él quería ir a estar con su familia. Y nos dejó solos, pero nosotros ya -- mi papá ya estaba trabajando, mi mamá ya estaba trabajando, mi papá tenía un auto, yo ya estaba bien en la escuela y estaba hablando inglés, ya tenía amigos, y bueno, nos estábamos acostumbrando al nuevo estilo de vida. Aunque en el 2000, todavía era muy diferente Chapel Hill y Carrboro. No había mucha comunidad hispana todavía. Había comunidad hispana, pero no había tantas tiendas hispanas como ahora, o productos hispanos. Ahorita ya venden quesos, tortillas, pan -- muchas cosas. Hay restaurantes mexicanos, y en aquel entonces, solamente estaba un restauran mexicano que era el Cinco de Mayo. Que está en el Franklin. ¿Y cuál era el otro que ya cerró? Pero creo que era el que estaba antes donde está La Hacienda, ¿verdad? Donde está La Hacienda, pero antes se llamaba otro nombre. No recuerdo. Pero a una sí -- no había tortillas, no había la comida básica que tenemos en nuestra dieta. No había [ríe] -- no había chiles, no había -- como qué más no había -- cilantro --
CW: ¿Nopales?
MP: Nopales, no había nopales. Entonces era muy difícil, porque tenemos que vivir de la carne, o de los huevos, y mi mamá -- frijoles sí había, pero tortillas a veces las tenía que hacer ella, a mano. Porque no vendían tortillas. Vendían la masa, la masa de maíz, pero no vendían las tortillas. Y ya con un forme de tiempo, fue mejorando, mi mamá empezó a trabajar mejor, mi papá también. Yo estaba en la escuela, y me iba muy bien en la escuela. Nunca tuve ningún problema en la escuela. A excepción, claro, que los mismos maestros y los mismos estudiantes no estaban acostumbrados a una comunidad mezclada. A una diversidad de personas. Todavía nos veían como extraños. Como por qué ellos no hablan inglés, y por qué están en clases especiales, y por qué los maestros no les dejan tarea. Y así es cuando llegué al escuela no entendía nada. Y estaba en -- eran siete periodos. Y de esos siete periodos, cuatro eran de ESL [ríe].
CW: Ah sí? Wow.
MP: Entonces yo estaba todo el día metido en el salón de ESL. Porque en la entrada, había el PT. Personal Time. El primer periodo. Y después recuerdo muy bien que era Language Arts. Y después era ESL, y después era ESL, y después era almuerzo, y después era otra vez ESL, y después ESL, y al último era otra vez -- era matemáticas o era -- como se llama - el P.E. Entonces era muy difícil. Porque todo el día estábamos metidos en las clases de inglés. Era Beginners - el ESL for Beginners. Y no estaba la clase muy estructurada muy bien. La maestra se llamaba Claudia Haskings, y ella era una persona esencial en mi vida. Porque era una maestra mayor ya. Ya debía haber estado jubilada. Pero no. Se estuvo allí, y estoy diciendo más o menos del tamaño de este cuarto. No sé cuánto tendrá este cuarto. [Sería a cinco metros por cinco metros.] Era un cuarto pequeño, como para quince estudiantes, entonces imaginate quince personas aquí. Era un cuatro pequeño. Y tenía libros, y tenía imágenes, y tenía fotografías -- todo el material para poder enseñar el ESL. Y la pizarra donde (14:18) la información era pequeña también. Como de unos -- tres pies por dos. Era pequeño. Y allí ponía todo la maestra, todos los imágenes. Y la maestra no hablaba ni una palabra de español. Porque era nuevo para la comunidad. Era nueva las clases de ESL, era nuevo las clases de todos -- porque la comunidad hispano estaba apenas influyente en todas las escuelas, y en todos lados. Sí había hispanos, pero no había con sus familias. Pero nada más había trabajadores. Y después empezaban a traer los trabajadores -- empezaban a traer sus familias. Y esas familias ya tenían sus hijos. Y los hijos empezaban a ir a la escuela. Y ella nos enseñaba todo. Pero no hablaba español. Entonces quince personas que no hablaban inglés, con una persona que hablaba el inglés pero no hablaba español. [Ríe.]
CW: Qué difícil.
MP: Todos trabajábamos como una familia. Era un grupo de familia de estudiantes con la maestra. Y todos los estudiantes la veíamos como la mamá. Porque cualquier cosa -- vamos con la Mrs. Haskings. Y vámonos con la Mrs. Haskings. Y ella tenía tiempo para todo. Tenía que comer en su salón porque no tenía tiempo tampoco para almorzar. Ella metía apretado a cualquier estudiante que podía en la clase de ESL. Y después -- claro que depende de ti, porque a los tres meses me pasé de Beginner al clase Intermedio. Y a las tres meses ya tenía lo básico del inglés. El conocimiento básico del inglés a los tres meses. Que era el alfabeto, los pronombres, los días, los números, los colores. Todo ese tipo de información. Y me empecé a ir al intermedio que ya era un poquito de estructura gramática. Con un poquito de la estructura gramática. Me cambiaron de periodos, y yo lo tenía un poco diferente -- tenía la clase de matemáticas, y de ciencias. Entonces yo tenía ciencias, matemáticas, y gramática, y dos periodos de ESL, y clase de computación, y el P.E. Ya estaba mejor que cuatro periodos de ESL. Al año que estuve aquí estaba en el ESL Advanced. Entonces ya podía hablar, ya podía escribir, ya podía leer. Me tocó nada más un poco de estructura de gramática. Como hago las comas, los apóstrofes, y todo ese tipo de cosa. En ese entonces -- llevo yo ya en el eighth grade. [Empieza a jugar con el teléfono y se puede oír la vibración.] Y entonces en el eighth grade ya fue un poco más relajado. Ya tenía mis amigos, ya tenía mi -- todo muy bien. [Suena el teléfono.] Perdón.
CW: Está bien.
RP: En ese momento se enfermó mi abuela. Y allí fue otra vez cuando tuvimos unos problemas muy grandes. Se destruyó la estabilidad. La enfermedad de mi abuela fue un parálisis cerebral, un stroke le llaman aquí. Mi mamá no le importó nada. Me sacó de la escuela. Nos fuimos a México. Y los maestros me dieron trabajos para llevar a México. Me dieron libros, me dieron trabajo, tarea, para que yo pudiera completar mi año. Y cuando regresé, mi abuela no se mejoró. Entonces mi mamá solamente pudo estar allá unos meses, y después habló con sus hermanas, habló con mis tías, y después se organizaron para cuanto tiempo podían ellas cuidarla, y cuanto que podía mi mamá cuidarla. Y cuando regresé tuve que volver a repetir el ocho. Regresamos y ya no pasé a high school, tuve que volver a hacer eighth grade. Ya después de allí empecé a perder el interés de la escuela. La enfermedad de mi abuela no se detuvo, ella siguió enferma. Y ya después teníamos que ir a México cada seis meses. Entonces no me permitía hacer mi mejor trabajo en la escuela. Yo iba y todo, pero estaba pensando, “Uy, a seis meses, a México otra vez.” Tenía ese idea en la cabeza. Después de seis meses, México. Después de seis meses, México. Y mis maestros todos me ayudaron bastante. Siempre hubo mucho apoyo de parte de mis maestros. De hecho una maestra -- se llama Patricia Lewis -- ella habló con mi mamá, y le dijo que quería ser mi guardián. Porque si ella firmó unos papeles para que ella me cuidara legalmente, y que yo pudiera seguir estudiando aquí. Y mi mamá no quiso. Mi mamá fue como decir, viaja loca. “Como voy a poderle (21:08) a mi hijo, si me costó trabajo criarlo.” Pero dije “No es para que se quede conmigo, es para que yo termine estudiar.” Y no quiso. Entonces Patricia Lewis está en mi vida hasta hoy. Nos seguimos comunicando y me sigue ayudando. Conoce a mi hija. Y me sigue ayudando, salimos a comer todavía. Y pues ya después de eso ya iba en el once. En el año once. Y allí fue cuando decidí ya no ir a la escuela. Ya en el año once todas las mañanas me costaba mucho trabajo yo ir a la escuela. Me sentía presionado, me sentía aburrido, me sentía -- ya no tenía ganas de ir. Y pues empecé a echar mentiras. Ya no tomé el bus escolar. Ya no tomé el autobús escolar, y le decía a mi mamá que iba en el autobús de la ciudad. Porque era la Carrboro High. Y entonces yo le decía a mi mamá [ríe], “Yo me voy en el J,” le decía. “Ah sí, yo me voy a trabajar. Que Dios te acompañe.” Y yo agarraba - sí agarraba el autobús J, pero me bajaba en el Franklin, y pues allí me pasaba haciéndome tonto. En la calle. Ya regresaba a la casa y almorzaba, y ya después llegaba mi mamá, y como si nada. Esto duré como dos meses, que ni se dio cuenta de que no iba a la escuela. Hasta que empezaron a hablar a la escuela porque yo tenía muchas faltas. Y entonces ya, una vez hablaron en la tarde, y mamá contestó. Que Rafael ya tiene más que treinta ausencias, y que me iban a tener que expulsar. Y me regaño. Que por qué no estaba yendo a la escuela, que ella me confiaba que iba a la escuela. Le dije, “Sabes qué? Ya no quiero ir a la escuela. Ya mejor no quiero ir a la escuela.” Y se me juntó todo en eso entonces eran mis abuelos, que estaban enfermos, y mi mamá estaba aprensionada, y a cada rato se iba a México. A cada rato se iba a México. Y después mi papá tuvo la enfermedad que tiene ahora que es la deficiencia renal. Y él ha sido diabético ya por más de veinticinco años. Pero la deficiencia renal le llegó como sorpresa, porque nosotros no sabíamos nada. Él estaba muy hinchado, y tenía mucho sueño, y no podía hacer nada, y no sabíamos por qué. Entonces hasta que le dio un ataque de deficiencia renal, y se llevó completamente desmayada. Y hablamos a 911, y vinieron por él, y ya nos dijeron que sus riñones ya no funcionaban. Que le iban a tener que hacer diálisis. Entonces imagínate todo eso. Yo tenía como dieciséis años. Imagínate toda esa presión, y la responsabilidad, que pasó. Porque aún todavía estoy con ellos, aunque tengo mi esposa y tengo mi hija. Pero todavía estoy con ellos -- pero ellos no hablan inglés, ellos no se saben mover. Han vivido aquí también quince años pero ellos no conocen el lugar. Entonces para todo soy yo. Rafa, ayúdanos a pagar los biles. Rafa, sacanos una cita. Rafa, acompaña. Rafa, tengo que ir al hospital. Rafa, tenemos que ir a la tienda. Rafa, tenemos que comprar ropa, tenemos que mandar esto. Entonces en vez de yo ser el hijo, ellos son como mis hijos. Pero no me quejo porque yo digo que eso es que nos estaba mantenido como una familia unida. Ellos -- yo lo veo así. Cuando estaba bebe y ellos hacían mis pantalones, ellos nunca se quejaban. Cuando estaba bebe y lloraba, o quería salir, o quería caminar, ellos nunca se quejaban. Entonces yo tampoco tengo porque quejar. Ahora que mi mamá tiene sesenta y cinco años, y mi papá tiene sesenta y tres, y yo tengo veinticuatro, no me tengo porque quejar. Ellos me cuidaron, yo a ellos les voy a cuidar. Y no me cuesta nada. Sí, me desespero, por supuesto. Pero no creo que dure por cien años. Así que mientras lo puedo hacer y los tenga, lo voy a aprovechar.
CW: Y en el - en el momento en que su madre le sacó de la escuela, como se sentía al principio usted?
RP: Como me sentía? Me sentía triste, porque yo tenía muchos ilusiones. Yo quería ser un doctor. Y mis calefacciones siempre fueron buenos. No fui siempre un grado A, pero era A o B. A o B, A o B. Siempre en todo. Y todos los maestros me apoyaban. Estoy diciendo esto líticamente porque mis maestros me apoyaban. Me decían Rafael, es que tú vas a ser alguien en la vida. Rafael, tú eres muy inteligente, y hasta nosotros estamos aprendiendo de ti, Rafael. Todos los maestros. [Suena el teléfono.] Y entonces yo me sentía muy triste, porque era una ilusión mía. Mi ilusión era poder graduarme, poder tener una carrera. Que no tenía idea por supuesto tampoco de las exigencias que se podían en ese tiempo tampoco. Cuando me sacó de la escuela por primera vez, yo dije yo tengo que regresar y continuar con mi escuela. Y luego, salimos por unos meses, regresé, y tuve que volver a hacer el grado ocho. No me importó. Yo lo volví a hacer. Volví a tomar las mismas clases, volví a tomar los mismos exámenes, volví a hacer lo que ya había hecho. Y pasé a high school. Entonces de hecho sí me debe haber graduado, porque cuando estaba en el año once, debería haber sido el año doce. Entonces ahí fue por eso también cuando me fastidié. Cuando volví a repetir el año ocho, se me retrasó un año de high school. Entonces ya cuando entré a high school fue una cosa diferente pero yo nunca me quité ese pensamiento, en mi cabeza, que iba a graduar. Y que tenía que hacer algo mejor. Yo fui un estudiante solitario. Yo no tenía amigos, yo no tenía compañeros, yo no tenía preferencias, de irme a sentar a algún lado, yo no supe nada de que fue ser popular, o de esas cosas de que la cultura escolar se consiste. Yo no sabía nada de eso. Yo fui un estudiante solitario. Yo llegaba a la escuela, estudiaba, iba a mis clases, hacía lo que tenía que hacer. Y en el almuerzo, yo llevaba mi almuerzo de la casa, y me iba y me sentaba debajo de un árbol, me ponía a leer, y comía. O después, había extra credit, y yo me iba al salón del maestro, hacía el extra credit, almorzaba con ellos, y después volví a hacer la clase. Entonces yo nunca fui como de - nunca me esquipé a la escuela, nunca ¿?. Entonces mis maestros me dijeron, “Es que tu no necesitas el extra credit.” Y dije, “No me importa, no tengo nada que hacer.” Nadie me hablaba en la escuela. Los hispanos no me hablaban, los americanos no me hablaban, los morenos no me hablaban. Tuve amigos muy elegidos, solamente en la escuela. Todavía estoy en contacto con ellos. Solamente tenía como tres amigos [ríe]. Y todavía me comunico con ellos. Lamentablemente, el año pasado falleció uno. Se llamaba David. David Quiroz. Y él fue mi amigo en Middle School. Tenía su familia, tenía una hija y un hijo, y pues murió en un accidente de carro. Pues esos eran mis amigos. Eso era high school ya. El middle school fue algo bonito. En high school ya fue un poco más aburrido. No tenía los challenges que yo esperaba, fui a algebra y me la comí como si fuera agua. Fui a geometría, e igual me la tomé como si fuera agua. En ciencias empecé earth sciences y -- por favor, earth sciences. Y después empecé con physical science y pues, más o menos, dije, no está tan mal. Lo que se quejan todos es la biología, pero a mi no me hizo complicado. Y después en matemáticas, empecé con el calculus, y ahí fue cuando empecé a decir okay, mejor me había quedado en geometría. Y tenía muy buenas calificaciones, y como terminé -- para el once grado, tenía dos tiempos libres. Tenía dos free periods porque ya no había otras clases que podía tomar. Porque ese año yo ya debería haber estado en el doce. Pero como hubo un retraso, y todos me decían nada más espérate un año, espérate un año, espérate un año, y yo nada más quería esperar. No me aguanto venir un año más a este ambiente de la escuela. Me empezaban a ofrecer los maestros el middle college, que son clases prematuras para el colegio, y yo no quise. Todos mis maestros me empujaban. Estudie, estudie, estudie, vas a ser un doctor, estudie, estudie. Y yo dije no, no, no, ya no quiero. Ya no me llama la atención la escuela. Ya no quiero. Ya me fastidié. Y había becas que me habían ofrecido, y yo no quise nada. Yo creo que en ese momento yo no debería estar aquí pero debería estar estudiando, a lo mejor tendría una carrera, pero no sé. Estoy muy feliz con mi vida. Muchos de mis amigos se graduaron, pero tienen una vida muy atareada. Sus relaciones están mal, sus matriones, y la relación con sus papás, no siguiera se ven. Yo no me quejo de nada. No tengo ni un carrera, no -- ya terminé me G.E.D., eso sí lo terminé, pero no tengo carrera. Pero no me falta nada.
CW: Como conocieron usted y su esposa en México?
RP: Como nos conocimos? Yo me gusta la música. Yo toco la guitarra y yo canto. Y la religión es muy importante para mi -- expresarlo con la música. Entonces yo, desde hace doce años, toco la guitarra. Y la primera vez que fuimos a México cuando me sacaban de la escuela de aquí, me metí a lo que se llama a una rondalla. Una rondalla de mujeres. No había hombres. Pero mi prima estaba organizando la rondalla de mujeres, y yo en ese entonces había tomado clases de música aquí en Estados Unidos, y toco el piano. Y me dijo ella si podía ayudarlas con el piano, y le dijo que sí. Y entonces empecé a asistir a la misa, y a cantar en la misa. Ya después de unos diez años, empecé a ir a otras comunidades, y en uno de esas comunidades, mi esposa estaba en un coro. Y entonces, fue como una conexión automática. Pero yo no le hablé, y ella no me habló. Fue nada más que nos mirábamos, nos veíamos, nos mirábamos, y ya después pasó un año. Pasó un año, y -- eso fue en el 2011. Eso ya fue en el 2011. Pero yo la conocí creo que en el 2010. Y pasó un año, y en el 2011 regreso a México, y la vuelvo a ver. Y entonces le invito a salir. Y le invito a salir, y vamos a comer, y empezamos a salir. Fue una conexión muy bonita. Yo creo que fue por el destino de Dios. Ella lo sabe así que no tengo miedo que se sepa pero ella ya sabe porque yo platico con ella muy bien. Tenemos una relación muy abierta. Yo tuve muchas novias aquí en Estados Unidos. Tuve novias de España, Venezuela, Colombia, Honduras, Guatemala, México. De todas partes. Y en México también tenía muchas novias. Con ninguna de las novias que yo tenía me había sentido como ella. Ella era algo diferente.Tenemos mucho en común. A veces nos ponemos a pensar, a platicar, y nos quedamos de -- no puedo creer que tengamos tantas cosas en común. O sea, nos gusta la misma música, nos gusta vestirnos bien, nos gusta -- nunca nos peleamos. Si es por estar juntos, nunca nos hemos peleado. Discutimos por problemas que pasan fuera. Como que si nos olvidó comprar algo, o que si su mamá le dijo algo, o que sus hermanas se pelean, o con mi mamá también -- de eso discutimos. Pero de lo que vestimos, comemos, o como nos comportamos, o como hablamos, todo tenemos en común. Todo. Los mismos colores -- nos gusta vestirnos igual. Como los colores. Si pone unos jeans y una blusa rosa, yo me pongo unos jeans y una camisa rosa.
CW: [Ríe.] Ah, sí?
RP: Si yo me pongo, por ejemplo, esta ropa, ella también se pone algo. Yo le compro su ropa. Y a ella le gusta la ropa que le compre, y yo le compro su ropa interior, le compro su ropa, le compro su maquillaje, sus perfumas. Y todo esto nos gusta. Todo tenemos un común, desde la comida que nos gusta, hasta cuando tenemos que ir al baño. Ha habido veces que cuando llegamos las dos -- “ya me paso el baño.” “A mí también me paso el baño.” “Por qué te aguantaste?” “Porque tú no me decías!” Y entonces nos tenemos que pasar al baño y todo. Entonces la forma en que yo le conocí fue muy bonita porque entonces ese día había un jaripeo en mi pueblo. Un jaripeo es una cosa en que montan los toros. Y le hablé, le dije, “Oye, hay un jaripeo en el pueblo, y voy a estar aquí con el caballo, y quiero -- si no podías venir.” Y me dijo que sí. Pues sí, a la media hora llegó con unas amigas y con otros amigos, novios de las amigas. Ella llegó, y me dio un beso, y fue la primera vez que estuvimos así juntos en una fiesta. Conviviendo juntos. Yo nunca le había dicho que fuera mi novia. O sea, nos veíamos y nos hablábamos, pero dije, yo no le voy a decir que sea mi novia. Si quiere que sea mi novio que ella me diga. Pero como los dos pensamos igual, ella también decía, si él no me dice que sea su novia, yo no le voy a decir nada. Entonces pensábamos igual. Ese día, yo ya había tomado un poco, y estaba tomado. Y me dijo, “Me vas a decir que sea tu novia? Sí o no.” Y le dije, “Sí! Quieres ser mi novia?” Y ella me sonrió y me dijo, “Sí, quiero ser tu novia.” Y entonces después le dije, “Bueno, y por qué nada más mi novia? Quieres ser mi esposa?”
CW: Ah, wow!
RP: Y entonces, se le hizo la sonrisa más grande, y me miró, y me dijo, “Sí, sí quiero ser tu esposa.” Y entonces no estuvimos novios. No fuimos novios mucho tiempo.
CW: Unos segundos, no?
RP: [Ríe.] Sí. Pero algo en mi corazón me dijo que era ideal. Ese día en la noche yo fui por ella. Entonces ni siquiera se lo platicábamos a sus papás, ni nada. Yo fui a la casa de su amiga, fui por ella y la llevé a mi casa. Y el otro día [ríe] fue algo bien raro porque llegó mi hermano y le dije, “Carnal, pues es que, ya le traje a mi novia,” y mi hermano se quedó mirando por arriba. Dijo, “A tu novia?” Y le dije, “Sí, mi novia ya está conmigo aquí.” Y me dijo, “Estás loco, huey,” dijo, “estás loco, huey.” Y le dije, “No, en serio. Ya me la traje.” Y hablé con mi esposa y le dije, “Maria Elena, sal por favor, porque él es mi hermano.” Y mi hermano no fumaba. Pero estaba una caja de cigarros allí. Se acabó la caja de cigarros en ese momento. Empezó [inhala, fingiendo fumar in cigarro] “No, está bien,” [inhala] y fuma, fuma fuma. Y me dijo, “Ya le dijiste a mi mamá?” Y le dije, “No, pues por eso te quería decir a ti primero.” Más empezó a fumar y dijo, “No les ha dicho a mi mamá?” Y dije, “No.” Porque cuando él se llevó a su esposa mi mamá sí le dio una buena regañada. Pensó que conmigo iba a ser peor. Pero, pues no. Ya saludaron y todo, y en ese -- estaba en México. Pero ya después regresé a los tres meses para trabajar. Y sí, nada más fue de un día. Mi esposa fue de un día, nada más. Pero teníamos tiempo ya saliendo, me entiendes? O sea, teníamos como un año hablando diario y saliendo juntos. Pero ninguno de los dos nos dijimos que nos gustábamos. Entonces fue algo muy chistoso porque -- sí nos queríamos y nos gustábamos, pero no quería decirle, “Quieres ser mi novia?” Yo quería decirle, “Quieres ser mi esposa?” [Los dos ríen.]
CW: A qué hora tiene que salir usted?
RP: Como a las cuatro.
CW: Bueno, está bien. Me puede contar como era el proceso de decidir a tener un bebe con ella? Y que tipo de cosas consideraban ustedes?
RP: Pues, la decisión de tomar un bebé, yo lo pensé mucho. Porque no me quería encontrar en la situación en que estoy ahorita. Yo estoy aquí, y mi esposa y mi hija están en México. Yo no me quería encontrar en esa situación. Porque yo le quería primero arreglar papeles a mi esposa. Entonces yo le decía que esperara. Yo le decía, “Esperamos hasta que te arreglen papeles.” Y ella se esperó dos años, y no pasaba nada con los papeles. Yo estaba ya en proceso. En el año en que nos dijeron que iba a procesar su visa era en que dijo que ya quería tener un bebé. Ella me dijo, “Ya me quiero tener un bebé. Porque cuando tú te vas yo me siento sola.” Y le dije, “Es que, deberíamos esperar unos cinco años. Hay que esperar unos cinco años. Ahorita tenemos tres años. Tenemos que esperar unos cinco años para estar juntos.” Y ella no quiso, y dijo que quería un bebé. Y pues si tu mujer te dice que quiere un bebé, pues el hombre se pone a trabajar. Entonces que nos pusimos a trabajar bien fuerte. Y pues sí, este diciembre se quedó embarazada. Tuve vacaciones en el trabajo en mayo, junio, julio y agosto, y no pasó nada. Y regresé a trabajar, y dieron otras vacaciones en diciembre. Y pues en diciembre como fue la noche buena, de navidad, nos pusimos a trabajar bien duro. Y todo -- pues sí. Quedó embarazada. Y cuando ella quedó embarazada ha sido la noticia más -- más -- más bonita en el mundo. Estaba buscando otra palabra pero no me acuerdo. Es que es un esfuerzo que toman dos seres humanos para poder hacer una vida. No es el morbo de hacer el amor. Es el privilegio de poder crear una vida por el medio del amor dos personas. Verdad? Entonces es una noticia muy -- ay, no sé como decirlo en Español -- rewarding. Y pues ella no sabía -- para eso entonces, yo me quedé en diciembre, pero en enero regresé. Pero en el ciclo menstrual de las mujeres, a ella su ciclo no estuvo en enero. Y dije, “Eh? Pues quien sabe porque no?” Pero después llegó febrero, y dije, “Ok, ahora sí tienes que ir al doctor.” Y fue al doctor, y me dijo los análisis, y me dijo, “Aquí nada más la prueba dice que no sé qué, es positiva,” y dijo, “no, mañana me voy con el doctor, no creo que salga el pronóstico que esté embarazada.” Y le dije, “estás embarazada!” Y me dijo, “Ya, que mañana voy con la doctora y ella me va a decir que”-- y no lo quiso creer. Hasta el otro día me habló y me dijo, “Mi amor, estoy embarazada.” Y le dije, “Sí, eso es que ya te dije!”
CW: Ya lo supo usted.
RP: Estamos bien felices. Y aunque estemos separados, nuestra relación es muy bonita. Aunque a muchas personas nos decimos que somos ridículos. Porque por ejemplo ahorita ella va a salir con su mamá, y me está diciendo, “Oye, voy a salir. Y alcancé el camión. Ya me bajé del camión.” Yo también, le digo, “Voy a estar ocupado. Voy a salir a la tienda con mis papas.” Nos comunicamos mucho. Eso hace que la distancia simplemente sea como un obstáculo insignificante. Porque la distancia física no puede derrotar a la cercamiento sentimental que podemos tener. Entonces así puede estar ella a seis mil millas, pero en mi mente y en mi corazón están ella y mi hija. Tan solo ver un mensaje -- y gracias a tecnología, verdad -- el iPhone, con el Facetime -- magnífico. Entonces nos podemos hablar y ver a cualquier hora. Sí las extraño. Quisiera estar con mi hija, poderla abrazar, poderla besar. También a mi esposa. Pero ahora comprendo todo el esfuerzo todo el esfuerzo que mi madre ha hecho para que estemos bien. Se está pagando ahora. Porque yo puedo darle un mejor futuro a mi hija, y a mi familia. Se está demostrando que todo el sufrimiento que pasaron mis papas, ahora lo voy a poder pagárselos con poder tener a mi familia mejor. Sí, sí es un privilegio poder estar aquí en Estados Unidos legalmente. Pero las reglas de inmigración tienen que cambiar. Y tienen que cambiar ya. Porque cuando los pilgrimeses tomaron la decisión de viajar al nuevo mundo, dejaron todo atrás, verdad? Sin importarles. Nosotros no podemos ser así. Tenemos que ver para un mejor futuro para el mundo, y para el país, verdad? Entonces yo tengo la posibilidad más fácil para arreglarles los documentos a mi familia. Pero también les estoy dejando sufrir. Para que ellas también valoren lo que uno que tiene venir aquí a vivir. Es un país que todavía está gobernado por la mayoría de la raza - pues es la anglosajona, la blanca, la caucásica. Y que tenemos que aprender a compartirlo. Todo se puede. Todo se puede, nada más. Con mucha paciencia. Pero sí, la separación de mi familia es muy dura. La separación de mi familia es muy dura. Pero también me enseña a mí a valorarlas. Hay personas que están juntos diarios pero ya ni siquiera quieren estar juntos. Como que, “Oy, ya va a llegar mi marido. Oy, los niños, los bebés.” Y nosotros no. Porque aunque sea unos tres meses que estoy aquí, cuando yo regrese, yo ya la extraño. Quiero sentir su amor, ya quiero sentir sus abrazos, sus besos. Y ella por igual. Hay ese movimiento interno que hace querer a la persona más. Y nos ayuda. Porque hay otras personas que están en relaciones así, pues terminan. Porque no, “seguramente estás con otra mujer,” o “estás con otro hombre.” Y nosotros pasamos por problemas así. Pero lo manejamos muy bien, porque nos confiamos todo. Y somos muy -- yo digo que estamos muy enamorados.
CW: Sí. Es aparente eso. Cuales son sus planes para el futuro de su familia?
RP: Para el futuro de mi familia. Pues uno sin duda quiero trabajar muy duro. Tengo unas expectativas muy altas, de que -- yo he trabajado muy bien como asistente administrativo. Y me da muy buen dinero, pero no lo quiere invertir tampoco aquí, hasta que esté con mi familia. Entonces lo que quiero con mi futuro es invertir por ejemplo en lo que ahora es mi vivienda, invertir en mi vivienda en México, y en mis bienes. Para poder estar en México necesitamos un carro, necesitamos una casa -- la casa ya está pero necesitamos terminarla de construir. Y mi esposa es muy -- le gusta ahorrar. Ella es muy ahorrativa. Yo le mando ahorita por semana 120 dólares por semana. Y eso se hace in México como 1400 pesos. De esos 1400 pesos ahorra 200 pesos en una cuenta de ahorros. Al mes, ahorra 800 pesos. Entonces al mes, como ochenta dólares. Al año va a ser 1600. Nos gusta ahorrar mucho, y nos gusta comprar cosas cuando podemos comprar. Por ejemplo de esos 1400 pesos ella compra su mandado, que esto se gasta como otros sesenta dólares, y lo compra para toda la semana. Compra vegetales, carnes, todo todo todo. Y lo que sobra, lo usa para poder estar en la casa. Que ella necesita comprar otras cosas. Y yo acá, casi no gasta dinero. Muy poco rara la vez que compro ropa. No me gusta gastar el dinero en estupideces como cerveza, o vino. Ahorita no tengo auto. No pago seguranza de automóvil. Lo único que tengo es mi celular y el internet. La ropa (56:41). Entonces, si eres inteligente, si sabes administrar -- soy administrador. [Ríe.] Entonces sé administrar muy bien mi dinero. Ha habido veces que cuando he estado trabajando diario por unos seis meses, hemos ahorrado hasta lo de 2000 dólares en dos meses. Entonces por ejemplo, el nacimiento del bebé, no nos costó nada de trabajo. Porque nosotros en cuánto supimos que estaba embarazada, hicimos un cuento de ahorro. Y juntamos 3000 dólares. Para todo lo de la bebé. Con eso, pagamos lo de la bebé, compramos ropa de bebé. Por eso estuve yo sin trabajar seis meses, con los 3000 dólares del ahorro. Y lo administramos todo perfectamente. No nos faltó más, ni menos. Y entonces yo digo que en mi futuro lo que quiero hacer es ahorrar otra vez, y quiero hacer unos complejos de departamentos en México. Porque te voy a decir sincera: de invertir aquí, a invertir en mi país, mejor voy a invertir en mi país. Aquí si para poder empezar una compañía -- sí sé como empezar mi compañía aquí, porque he estado administrando compañías, quisiera abrir una compañía aquí que sea “LLC,” una compañía de “Limited Liability Company,” verdad? Pero me gustaría primero invertir en mi país, y traerles a mi esposa y mi hija aquí, pero sinceramente lo que es la primera educación de mi hija, lo que es los primeros seis años de su educación, voy a querer que estudie en México y no aquí. Porque también tiene que saber de donde viene. Y tiene que acostumbrarse a sus raíces. Y que no crezca como un hispanoamericano. No me gustan los hispanoamericanos. Porque tienen muchos pensamientos diferentes aparte de los de su cultura. [Vibra el teléfono.] Yo quiero que ella estudie allá los primeros años, que venga acá a visitar unos tiempos. Y lo que es su escuela intermedia, a avanzada, que pues hace aquí. Sí hay mas oportunidades aquí. En Estados Unidos tienen una estructura educativa mejor que en México. Yo creo que a eso es lo que me voy a dedicar -- a poder hacer un complejo en México, a terminar nuestra casa, a terminar una casa para mis padres, invertir más en lo que es el real estate. Y espero que a mis cuarenta, cuarenta y cinco años esté bien en el real estate. Y poder vivir de mis propiedades. En mi futuro, ya a los cuarenta y cinco años, yo ya quiero estar establecido.
CW: Y quiere vivir en México o aquí a los cuarenta años?
RP: A mis cuarenta y cinco años quiero estar en México. De aquí voy a estar en los Estados Unidos, voy a traer a mi familia, y vamos a estar aquí. Tal vez vamos a comprar una casa aquí con mis papas. No podemos irnos a México ahorita porque mi papá está con su tratamiento aquí. Y mi hermano está en proceso de recibir sus papeles. Entonces yo digo que todo nos va a venir mejor. Yo pienso que este año todo lo veo positivo, y que vamos a salir adelante.
CW: Tengo una pregunta más. Me puede describir como quieres ser involucrado con la crianza de su bebé, con su hija, mientras ella está en México?
RP: Pues, hasta ahorita la bebé tiene seis meses. No tiene mucho, verdad? Pero aún así, los primeros cuatro meses de la vida de la bebé, estuve con ella. Entonces conoce mi voz, conoce mi cara, y cuando hablo con ella por teléfono, o estamos hablando por Facetime, la niña se ríe. La niña me conoce. La mamá la está inculcando a ver mi foto. Le habla de mí. Le está platicando cosas -- no empezamos de hablarle de bebé, como de “Uy, niña” [en voz que uno usa con los bebés], no. “Hola, como estás, buenos días, ya despertaste.” Y ella entiende, y se ríe. O entonces le digo, “Angeles,” y ya voltea. Entonces ella ya empieza a entender. Ahorita más que nada voy a estar involucrado en que no le falte nada económicamente. Ahorita pienso que lo más importante es lo económicamente. La mamá le cuida bien, le da de comer muy bien, entonces lo importante es que no se enferme, que tenga los cuidados apropiados. Verdad? Y en el futuro, ya cuando empiece a hablar, o cuando empiece a entender más, como tengo el conocimiento de inglés, entonces la voy a empezar con esa consciencia bilingüe. Me entiendes? Entonces vamos a poder hablar español y vamos a poder hablar inglés. Entonces eso la va a hacer un poco más despierta. Y con ese conocimiento yo creo que mi hijo va a tener oportunidades mejor que yo porque yo me considero una persona visionaria, que no va nada más lo que tienes aquí [pone la mano en frente de la cara]. Me gusta ver más en frente. Me gusta aprender cosas nuevas. Me gusta mantenerme al tanto de las cosas, de cómo está funcionando. No tengo la educación tal vez apropiada, pero puedo mantener conversaciones apropiadas con una persona rica o con una persona pobre, y yo creo que estoy en el mejor. En lo mejor de los dos. Tengo una estructura educativa mezclada, que me permite estar en lo mejor de los dos mundos. Entonces mi hija tiene que superar eso y espero criarla de una manera como mi crió mi mamá también. Porque somos una familia unida, somos una familia que preocupa por si tu papá, tu hermano, o tu primo sí comió o no comió. Entonces si no comió, ven a comer. Si comió pues viene, vamos a estar todos juntos. Los valores y los principios de una familia son muy importantes para mostrar quien vas a ser en el futuro.
CW: Bueno. Yo no tengo nada más. Hay algo que quiere usted añadir?
RF: Pues no. No sé si tengas otras preguntas, de por qué elegimos estar aquí en Chapel Hill. La decisión casi fue de mi papá. Así que no sé que haiga sido el motivo de él para estar aquí, pero si algún día que llegaras a ver que por qué Chapel Hill? Chapel Hill es una ciudad con alma. Es una comunidad con alma, porque seas de donde seas, o vengas de donde vengas, Chapel Hill te va a abrir las puertas a su casa. Las personas aquí tienen una personalidad muy amable, muy abierta. Son muy detallistas y son muy precavidos y son muy educados y son una de las personas comunidades en que yo he estado viviendo. Y poder decir que yo me crié aquí es un orgullo. Porque pues sí, desde los once años estoy aquí, entonces sí me crié en la ciudad de Chapel Hill. Verdad? Y Carrboro. Yo digo que ya en vez de Carrboro y Chapel Hill deberían dar un nombre. [Ríen los dos.]
CW: Claro, de acuerdo.
RF: Como Charrboro o algo así. [Ríen los dos.] Pero sí, es un pequeño pueblito con alma. Yo lo puedo expresar así. Es un pueblo con alma. Vive. Vive por la gente. Vive por la gente que está aquí. Y cualquier persona que venga, aunque sea por un día o dos días, se va a enamorar. Porque tienes lo mejor del sur, verdad? De la región del sur, pero ya tienes otras cosas, como las personas que vienen del norte, las personas que vienen del este. Es un pueblo mezclado que te permite poder estar con diferentes personas. No lo cambiaría por nada. Aunque es muy caro. [Ríen los dos.] Es muy caro pero -- pero he viajado a otros lugares, y sinceramente, de donde yo soy de Celaya, de Celaya, Guanajuato a Chapel Hill, es como si estuviera en mi casa. No le encuentro diferente. En Celaya porque está mi familia y todo. Pero aquí en Chapel Hill también tengo familia. Tengo amigos. Puedo salir caminando sin preocuparme que me van a meter un balazo. Puedo manejar. Puedo salir en bicicleta. Hay tantas cosas aquí, verdad? Y está en el medio. Tiene el mejor de Raleigh, de Durham, de Greensboro, de todo eso. Es como una conexión. Entonces estamos en un muy buen sitio, y el único que quisiera es que pudiera abrir más oportunidades. Más oportunidades para las personas que necesitan casa. Las casas son aquí es ridículamente muy cara. Entonces imaginase, si el pueblo de Chapel Hill se puso a pensar “Ok, vivimos bien, pero vamos a hacer esto mejor.” Para qué están construyendo el centro con edificios nuevos? Debían haber hecho un complejo con casas nuevas. A precios accesibles, para que le gente pueda venir a vivir. Eso es lo que deberían haber hecho, en mi opinión. Pero aún así, no lo cambiaría por nada. Estoy muy feliz de vivir aquí. [Entra el papá de Rafael y le dice algo.]
CW: Bueno.
RF: Listo?
CW: Sí.
RF: Muy bien.
CW: Muchas gracias. Voy a apagar.
RF: No, por nada, espero que --
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
R-0709 -- Patiño, Rafael.
Description
An account of the resource
Patiño, a permanent US resident who emigrated from Mexico with his family when he was eleven years old, learned English in school and adjusted easily to the United States. In eigth grade, Patiño left school to go to Mexico with his mother to help care for his sick grandmother, and when they returned he no longer had the motivation to continue school, eventually dropping out in eleventh grade. Patiño tells the story of meeting his wife, and explains their decision to have a baby, even though he would remain in the United States while his wife and child are in Mexico. Fortunately through technology and a job that allows him to frequently visit them in Mexico, he stays connected with his wife and baby. Patiño shares his plans for his family in the future, compares life in Chapel Hill to Celaya, and says that he would like to bring his family to the United States for a while, but invest in real estate in Mexico and retire there.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
13 Apr 2014
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
R0709_Audio.mp3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/20988">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>
-
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/cbd0c488679cd2efdd060f408450709a.mp3
09651de9fc32b8a314c294aa8fadd16e
https://newroots.lib.unc.edu/files/original/b63f64770cc524c8643dcbd20ae2dbee.pdf
e725f78db5d2edb03722334deff3fe67
SOHP Interview - Bilingual
Southern Oral History Program Interview with metadata in English and Spanish
Interview number
Número de entrevista
R-0702
En: Restrictions
Es: Restricciones
No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
Fecha
01 Apr 2014
Interviewee
Entrevistado/a
Antúnez, Ebelyn Joanna.
En: Interviewee Occupation
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Food service employees
En: Interviewee Gender
Es: Género de entrevistado
Female
Interviewee Place of Origin
Lugar de origen del entrevistado
United States
Interviewee Places of Residence
Lugares de residencia del entrevistado
Durham -- Durham County -- North Carolina
Interviewer
Entrevistador/a
Stewart, Lindsay.
En: Language of Interview
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Spanish
En: Abstract
Es: Abstracto en español
Joanna Antunez was born in the United States to a Mexican father and Salvadorian mother. Now in her mid-twenties, Antunez has lived with her family in Florida, Texas, and—since she was eleven years old—in North Carolina. Antunez is now studying to be a nurse at Alamance Community College and works at the Lenoir Dining Hall on the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill campus. Antunez describes her family’s immigrant background and the difference in experience of living in Durham, North Carolina, versus Texas where there is a larger Hispanic community. Being a second-generation, bilingual American shapes her perspective of working at the dining hall on campus among many Latin American immigrants who have more recently migrated; she plays the role of “intermediary” for her female immigrant co-workers, helping them navigate the workplace, and also interpreting between Spanish-speaking employees and the English-speaking management. Antunez identifies as Mexican and spends most of her time with Mexican peers locally, and using Facebook to stay connected with folks back in Mexico. The content of the interview is also interesting for linguistic study, with many instances of Spanglish, as well as English and Spanish hesitation markers.
En: Citation
Es: Citación
Interview with Ebelyn Joanna Antúnez by Lindsay Stewart, 01 April 2014, R-0702, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Reference URL
URL de referencia
http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/20976
Repository
Repositorio
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
En: Themes
Es: Temas
Migratory experience; Social networks; Culture; Language and communication; University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
En: Transcript
Es: Transcripción
Lindsay Stewart: Soy Lindsay Stewart, entrevistando a Joanna.
Ebelyn Joanna Antunez: Antunez.
LS: Antunez. Estamos en Lenoir Dining Hall. El primero de abril, 2014. Bueno, ¿está lista?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: Bueno, primero, ¿de dónde es su familia?
EJA: Mi papá es de México y mi mamá es de El Salvador.
LS: ¿Y es de la segunda generación usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, soy la segunda generación.
LS: ¿Cómo llegaron su familia a los Estados Unidos?
EJA: Mi papá se vino a los catorce años. Se vino de mojado, cruzó el río. Y mi mamá se vino a los diecisiete. Igual, se vino de mojada. Pero ella todavía tuvo que pasar tres fronteras, lo de Guatemala y honduras, y Guatemala y México, y México y los Estados Unidos. Mi mamá estuvo más-- navegó más para venir aquí, que mi papá. [tose]
LS: ¿Cómo fue ese proceso para ellos? ¿Le han dicho del cruzo?
EJA: Más antes-- Sí era difícil, pero era como decir-- Era difícil por el aspecto de que tienen que caminar y todo eso, pero ahora se han enseñado nuevas cosas y los de inmigración se han puestos más estrictos. Entonces ahora se puede decir que es difícil para poder cruzar para Estados Unidos. Pero mi mamá sí se sufrió mucho porque tuvo que cruzar tres fronteras. Y todavía en la frontera de México y Estados Unidos, ella tuvo que caminar tres días.
LS: ¿Usaron un pollero?
EJA: ¿Un pollero? Sí, usaron. Sí, mi papá--Cuando él se vino él también caminó, pero pues él es hombre. Él aguanta más.
LS: ¿Tiene algunas reflexiones sobre las motivaciones de sus padres por las que vinieron a los Estado Unidos? ¿Le han comentado de sus motivaciones por haber venido?
EJA: Sí, mi papá vino porque-- Ellos en total son siete, siete hermanos y hermanas. Entonces mi papá fue criado por su abuelita, no por su mamá. Mi abuelita, la mamá de mi papá, ella los dejó allá y ella se vino aquí a Estados Unidos a trabajar y mandarles dinero a ellos allá. Entonces mi papá cuando cumplió los catorce años, él se decidió venirse porque no quería que mi abuelita trabajara para mantenerlos allá a ellos. Eso fue el motivo que él quiso venirse porque él quería trabajar para poder sacar a sus hermanos y a mi abuelita y a mis tíos adelante. Porque mi papá se crió muy pobre.
LS: ¿En cuál parte de México es?
EJA: Guerrero.
LS: Guerrero.
EJA: Guerrero, México. Es como-- Es en la parte que se llama-- Está Guerrero, Michoacán, Tierracaliente [señalando con las manos la geografía]. De ahí es él.
LS: ¿Y su madre?
EJA: Mi mamá es de San Miguel. Es de San Miguel. No conozco allá.
LS: ¿Ella le ha comentado de sus motivaciones por haber venido a los Estados Unidos?
EJA: [tose] Sí, ella se quiso venir porque la mayoría de sus hermanos y hermanas están aquí en Estados Unidos. Su hermana, la mayor, le seguía insistiendo en que se viniera para acá. Mi abuelita--la mamá de ella--ella tiene tienda allá. Ella vende cosas. Entonces mi mamá estaba bien. O sea, se puede decir que-- por navegar mucho, que no tenía para comer o algo-- sí pobre eran. Pero como mi abuelita tiene una tienda (donde) vende sus cosas. Entonces ella no más por venir a trabajar igual para mandarle a mi abuelita.
LS: ¿Tenían familia o amigos en los Estados Unidos que facilitaron o posibilitaron su llegada?
EJA: Sí. ¿Los dos?
LS: Mhm.
EJA: Sí. Mi papá--.
LS: Su madre.
EJA: Mhm.
LS: Claro.
EJA: Mi abuelita, la mamá de él. Y mi mamá, su hermana mayor. Su hermana mayor con su otro hermano.
LS: ¿Les informaron del proceso? ¿De cómo conseguir pollero, por ejemplo?
EJA: Sí. Por ejemplo, la hermana de mi mamá, ella es la que se cargó del pollero y del dinero. Mi mamá no más se vino y ya. Igual, acá cuando se vino mi papá-- No fue mi abuelita, sino que fue un tío de mi papá quien se cargó del pollero y todo eso.
LS: ¿Y usted tiene hermanos?
EJA: Yo tengo dos hermanas.
LS: ¿Mayores?
EJA: No, menores. Yo soy la mayor. Sí, la mayor.
LS: ¿Sus padres les contaban cuentos de inmigrar cuando crecieron, o no tanto?
EJA: [pensando] Más mi papá. Mi mamá casi no. Me gusta preguntar. Soy yo que preguntaba, y ellos me decían.
LS: ¿Siempre ha vivido en el estado de Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Yo? No, yo he vivido en Florida, en Texas, y en Norte Carolina.
LS: ¿Cómo llegaron su familia, o usted por su parte, a ese estado, a Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Cómo llegamos?
LS: [afirma que sí]
EJA: Okay, viví ocho años en Florida. Mi papá era--Cuando tenía tres años, mi papá trabajaba pishqueando un naranja. ¿Si sabe que es pishquear?
LS: No. [se ríe]
EJA: Ellos le llaman pishquear-- Es dig for oranges in-- Dig ‘em and, how do you call it? [snaps fingers]. Like get the dirt, la tierra preparada para sembrar. That’s the word I was looking for. Sorry! Para sembrar. Sembraban y pishqueaban. Ya que la naranja estaba lista ellos sacaban las naranjas.
LS: Nunca había escuchado esa palabra, pishquear.
EJA: Así le dicen.
LS: Ni suena español.
EJA: No. Así le dicen ellos. Like la mayoría de los mexicanos cuando a veces les pregunta, “¿Qué es trabajado?” En la pishca [se ríe]. Yeah, algo diferente.
LS: [se ríe] Entonces, él trabajaba de pishquear.
EJA: De pishquear. Después, agarró un trabajo de trailero. Trabajaba para um-- Él le dejaba el cargamento a los Home Depots, a todos los Home Depots de planta. Entonces ya después lo mandaban para Texas y radicó un año ahí en Texas y nos fuimos para allá. Y ya después de ir a Texas lo mandaban para acá, para Norte Carolina. Es cuando nosotros nos mudamos para acá.
LS: ¿Cuántos años tenía en ese entonces?
EJA: ¿Yo? Yo me mudé a Norte Carolina cuando tenía once años. Once, doce años.
LS: ¿Hizo el middle school y el high school acá?
EJA: Sí, middle school y high school aquí.
LS: ¿Cómo fue esa experiencia de pasar por el sistema educativo de Carolina del Norte?
EJA: Fue algo muy diferente. En Houston-- porque es donde estábamos-- ahí en la mayoría de las escuelas, las maestras hablan español y eran puros hispanos y todo español. Entonces cuando yo vine para acá, para Carolina del Norte, se me hizo muy difícil a mí y a mis hermanas. Bueno, más a mí porque yo estaba más grande. Era más difícil entender, yo creo, o escribir el inglés por lo mismo de que me acostumbré al español. Entonces yo tuve que agarrar-- Yo en middle school y el noveno grado-- De middle school a noveno grado yo estuve en ESL.
LS: ¿Y eso le ayudó?
EJA: Sí, eso me ayudó. Ya en el noveno grado ya--.
LS: ¿Ya se sentía bien?
EJA: Sí, ya me sentía bien, pero se me dificultó porque aquí no había español y donde vivíamos era rara. No había muchos hispanos.
LS: ¿En cuál parte de Carolina del Norte vivía?
EJA: Para allá, para Marion, North Carolina.
LS: Las montañas.
EJA: Las montañas, yes. Y acá sí cuando llegué-- cuando nosotros nos mudamos para ahí-- casi no habían hispanos.
LS: Pero hoy en día cada vez más, ¿no?
EJA: Hoy sí, cada vez más [tose].
LS: ¿Usted puede hablar sobre las comunidades de las cuales usted forma parte en Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Comunidades? Yo casi no estoy metida en comunidades. Soy apartada de eso.
LS: O digo--Tal vez hay mejor manera de decirlo. ¿En cuáles contextos, por ejemplo, encuentra amigos por lo general? ¿Se conecta con la gente?
EJA: En Facebook.
LS: En Facebook.
EJA: En Facebook. Yeah la mayoría del tiempo es por Facebook.
LS: ¿Esos son amigos nuevos o amigos que ya tenía en Texas?
EJA: Son de todo. Viejos y nuevos.
LS: Y los nuevos amigos-- ¿Cómo agarra nuevos amigos, por ejemplo? ¿Va a la iglesia o va a--?
EJA: Bueno, yo salgo mucho a fiestas con mis amigas, mis hermanas, mis primas. Salimos todas juntas. Entonces siempre conozco a alguien más. Nos hacemos amigos o nos hacemos amigas y así. Por Facebook me he hecho amigos de muchas personas que están en México. Pero nos hemos hecho amigos sobre la familia, que éste es mi primo, ésta es mi amiga y así.
LS: ¿Y se conectan así?
EJA: Mhm, se conectan así.
LS: ¿Ha visitado a México en algún momento?
EJA: Sí. Sí, muchas veces. Yo voy y vengo.
LS: ¿A Guerrero?
EJA: Aha a Guerrero. La última vez que fui fue en el 2010.
LS: ¿Porque todavía tiene familia allá?
EJA: Sí, todavía tengo familia allá. Tengo a mi bisabuelita, la abuela de mi papá, a mis tíos y tías.
LS: ¿Viven en Carolina del Norte-- bueno, dijo sus hermanas y sus primas-- ¿Y sus padres además?
EJA: Sí, todos en Carolina del Norte.
LS: ¿Todos en Marion?
EJA: No, ahora en Durham.
LS: ¿Todos?
EJA: Todos. Todos nos mudamos para acá.
LS: ¿Qué les parece la diferencia entre Marion y Durham?
EJA: Mucho mejor. A mí me gusta aquí mejor. Marion casi no me gustaba. (Hay) montañas. No había mucho por donde salir. Y aquí sí, es más social. Hay más gente. Hay más cosas que hacer [tose].
LS: Claro. Bueno, ya hablamos un poco de eso pero, ¿tiene amigos que han inmigrado o que se mueven entre los países? ¿que van y vienen como usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, tengo. Tengo muchos.
LS: ¿Cómo se siente usted cuando ellos hablan de la inmigración? ¿Tiene una conexión con ellos? Porque es americana. Es salvadoreña y es mexicana, pero también es americana. Entonces, ¿se siente como una distancia de ellos que son inmigrantes, que vienen de México o de El Salvador, por ejemplo?
EJA: ¿Qué si yo me siento o si ellos sienten?
LS: Bueno, los dos.
EJA: No porque yo me pongo en el lugar de ellos. Y yo me comporto como si-- Yo nunca he lucido mejor que nadie. Ya no más que porque tuve la dicha de nacer aquí no me hace mejor, si me entiende. Si ellos vienen aquí es por un propósito, para poder trabajar, para poder salir adelante. Porque en México obviamente hay mucho delincuencia. Hay mucho-- ¿Qué se puede decir? Muchas cosas. Entonces a veces se puede trabajar, a veces no. Entonces yo me pongo en lugar de ellos. Yo no me hago menos que ellos ni más que ellos. Y ellos lo saben.
LS: Claro. ¿Cómo ha sido su experiencia con la inmigración?
EJA: [pensando]
LS: Por ejemplo, ¿ha tenido experiencias en que alguien cree que usted es de otro país, que es inmigrante?
EJA: ¿Qué me confundan?
LS: Sí. [EJA tose]
EJA: Sí. Muchas veces me han confundido. Sí. Sí, muchas veces, pero no me molesta. No. No me molesta.
LS: ¿Y piensan que es de México?
EJA: Sí de México. Mexicana.
LS: ¿Se acuerda de alguna experiencia en particular, que le destaca?
EJA: Bueno a veces-- En el middle school, hubo a veces ocasiones donde morenos me decían que me fuera para atrás, para México, donde yo tenía que estar. Pero, esas cosas así no me ofendían, no me molestaban. Porque, ¿Para qué hacer algo chico, grande?
LS: Hablaba de que hubo una diferencia entre las escuelas en Houston y las escuelas de aquí, de Marion, en cuanto a la cantidad de hispanos. ¿Tenía un grupo de hispanos ahí en middle school y high school, o más bien integraba con toda la gente?
EJA: En middle school yo --¿Cómo explicar? Yo era apartada. Like no-- Era bien apartada. Es decir, sí me hablaba con los hispanos, pero no me juntaba con ellos. Yo era apartada y en high school es cuando yo fui a ajuntarme con los hispanos con los americanos y así. Pero en middle school fui apartada.
LS: Me imagino que tenía sus hermana, entonces no tenía esa necesidad de tener muchas amigas en la escuela.
EJA: Sí. Sí, tuve mis hermanas.
LS: ¿Y porqué piensa que hubo ese cambio, entre middle school y high school, de, de repente, no ser tan apartada?
EJA: Yo creo que era porque en high school habían más hispanos. Era más libre, más open. Entonces tuve la oportunidad de conocer muchas personas. Es ahí cuando yo empezó a ajuntarme con los hispanos y los americanos.
LS: ¿Hablaban entre ustedes en español, por lo general? ¿o un poco de Spanglish?
LS: [tose] En español. Entre nosotros hablamos en español que metieron?
EJA: [se ríe] Sí, sí. Siempre, eso es algo normal yo creo. Porque yo todo el tiempo cuando estoy con mis hermanas siempre empezamos hablar en español y terminamos hablar en inglés [estornuda]. Es algo que se nos sale [se ríe]. O si no, empezamos en inglés y terminamos en español.
LS: ¿Cómo cree que ha sido diferente o similar su experiencia de vivir en los Estados Unidos en comparación con alguien que haya inmigrado para aquí?
EJA: Hay diferencia. Hay diferencia. Porque la vida allá en México es muy diferente. De todas formas. De, por ejemplo, allá estás-- Te sientes libre. Y aquí te sientes encerrado. Allá-- ¿Cómo explicar? La forma en que cocinas es diferente. Los horarios de comer son diferente. El vestuario es diferente. ¿Qué más? Allá es, pues es rancho.
LS: ¿Le parece que ha sido diferente su experiencia de vivir en los Estados Unidos que la vida de los inmigrantes aquí-- cuando inmigran aquí, que no están en México, sino viviendo aquí-- que hay una diferencia entre usted que es americana y ellos que son inmigrante?
EJA: ¿En la forma de vivir?
LS: [afirma que sí]
EJA: Sí, sí hay diferencia. Porque es difícil para ellos adaptarse a la vida de aquí. Sí es difícil. Lo logran, pero a veces tardan. Hay unos que tardan para adaptarse, y hay otros que no, que lo se adaptan. Pero sí, hay diferencia.
LS: ¿Cuáles cosas en particular puede comentar de-- ¿Cuáles cosas le parece son difíciles para asimilarse o adaptarse para ellos?
EJA: Por ejemplo, no hablar inglés. Eso es más importante. No hablar inglés. No poder comunicarse con alguien. ¿Qué más? Estar encerrado. Vienes de un rancho donde estás libre, a inmigrar aquí donde vas a estar encerrado en un apartamento, en una casa, si me entiendes. Entonces acostumbrarse a esto es difícil.
LS: Claro. Aun más para los mayores.
EJA: Sí. Sí.
LS: En high school, estos amigos con quienes pasaba tiempo-- ¿La mayoría fueron americanos o algunos fueron inmigrantes?
EJA: Inmigrantes. La mayoría eran inmigrantes.
LS: ¿De México?
EJA: De México. Yo casi con gente centroamericana no me juntaba. No es que no haya querido sino que [estornuda] ellos siempre eran muy apartados de los mexicanos.
LS: ¿Por no querer mezclarse con los mexicanos?
EJA: Aha, por no querer mezclarse con los mexicanos. Hay algunos centroamericanos que no pueden mirar a los mexicanos.
LS: Y usted tiene-- Está en una posición interesante porque es ambos hija de un mexicano y una centroamericana, una salvadoreña. ¿Cómo afecta eso su percepción de ambos grupos? ¿Se sentía un poco de una intermediaria entre ellos?
EJA: No, porque mi mamá se adaptó mucho a mi papá. Dejó todas las costumbres salvadoreñas. Dejó la comida--.
LS: ¡Las pupusas! [se ríe]
EJA: ¡Sí, todo! Entonces ella se adaptó mucho a lo mexicano. Entonces sí crecimos nosotros. Mexicano, mexicano, mexicano, si me entiendes. Entonces no me (sentía mal) y no me sentía estar en el medio porque fui más criada mexicana que ella. Ella mucho se adaptó a mi papá. Ella casi-- El salvadoreña no nos enseñó mucho, si me entiendes.
LS: ¿No ha visitado a El Salvador?
EJA: No. No he visitado.
LS: Entonces, ¿se identifica mexicana usted?
EJA: Aha, mexicana. [tose]
LS: Pero, americana. Mexicana de origen.
EJA: [tose] Pero yo, aha--. Pero, pues llevo sangre salvadoreña.
LS: ¿Cómo fue la experiencia de encontrar empleo para usted? Es decir, la experiencia de inserción laboral después de high school.
EJA: No fue difícil porque como miraban que era bilingüe es algo que me ayudó. No se me hizo difícil para mí para nada.
LS: ¿Se mudaron para aquí, para Carolina del Norte cuando tenía once años--?
EJA: Aha.
LS: Si no me equivoca. Y después para Durham cuando tenía, ¿cuántos?
EJA: Catorce.
LS: Catorce. Entonces, ¿hizo el high school en Durham?
EJA: No. Lo hice-- Miento. Quince años aquí en Durham. Tenía quince años, perdón. Cuando me mudé a Durham era quince años. Tenía yo quince años.
LS: Pero todavía le faltaban algunos años en high school, ¿no?, a los quince años.
EJA: Sí. Sí, me faltaban. El high school la hizo aquí en Durham.
LS: Decía que agarró trabajo bastante fácilmente.
EJA: Sí. Sí, fácil. No navegué.
LS: ¿Cómo se enteró de su primer empleo?
EJA: ¿Cómo? Mi primer empleo fue a los diecisiete años. Trabajé en Target. De cajero. Yo no más llené la aplicación y luego me llevaron para una entrevista y agarré el trabajo.
LS: Y después, ¿Cómo fue conectado al campus de UNC?
EJA: Aquí porque mi mamá ella trabajaba aquí. Mi mamá trabajaba aquí y mi mamá me recomendó con la manager.
LS: ¿Trabajaba aquí abajo?
EJA: Sí. Mainstreet.
LS: Pero ahora no.
EJA: Hoy trabaja en Healthy Bowl y Top of Lenoir.
LS: Entonces tal vez la conozco. ¿Cómo se llama?
EJA: Joanna.
LS: También. No la conozco.
EJA: [afirma que sí]
LS: Qué bueno. ¿Había sido empleada en un comedor o algo parecido antes de agarrar este trabajo?
EJA: ¿Antes de eso si había-- No. Algo nuevo para mí.
LS: ¿Cómo fue el proceso de conseguir empleo en el comedor de UNC? La recomendó su mamá, y ¿después tuvo que hacer una entrevista?
EJA: Llené la aplicación, y me hicieron una entrevista y tuve una semana de entrenamiento.
LS: ¿Le parece que sería distinto ese proceso si usted fuera inmigrante?
EJA: No. No porque aquí no dejan-- No aceptan-- ¿Cómo le dijera? Aquí no dejan trabajar a gente que no tenga seguro bueno. Aquí tiene como-- Ha de tener ya tres años que no agarran a hispanos. Como dos [años].
LS: ¿Nadie que sea hispano?
EJA: Han agarrado a morenos y filipino
LS: Claro.
EJA: Pero hispanos ya-- Todos los hispanos que trabajamos aquí todos hemos estado desde que-- Por mucho tiempo.
LS: ¿Aun si tengan papeles?
EJA: Aa sí, si tienen papeles sí los agarran. Pero no he visto que haigan [hayan] metido.
LS: ¿A los hispanos? ¿Hace tres años?
EJA: Sí, ya hace dos o tres años. Ya tienen mucho que no--.
LS: ¿Eso le parece que fue una decisión a propósito de no querer contratar a más hispanos tal vez por preocupación que no tienen papeles?
EJA: A lo mejor sí. Porque más antes se oía que corrían a personas porque descubría que su segura era trueco.
LS: Interesante. Y ¿cómo es trabajar con muchas personas que han inmigrado, aquí en el comedor?
EJA: Me gusta. Nos llevamos bien. Me llevo muy bien con ellas.
LS: Ellas, dijo. ¿No hay [señores]?
EJA: Sí hay pocos, pero no más los saludo, o la “adiós” y así. Pero con las mujeres sí me llevo bien con ellas. Relajeamos mucho.
LS: ¿Le parece que una cierta solidaridad entre los inmigrantes hispanohablantes que trabajan aquí en el comedor?
EJA: No. Bueno, depende. Depende. Porque hay algunos que son más callados-- más apartados-- y prefieren no decir nada y quedarse callados, si me entiende. Yo creo que depende en uno.
LS: ¿Pero entre algunos hay una cierta conexión?
EJA: Sí, sí.
LS: Bueno, y ya me dijo que se relaciona bien con ellas, que se lleva bien con esas mujeres.
EJA: Sí.
LS: ¿Le parece que ellos la tratan distinta por ser americana?
EJA: [tose] Yo creo no es tanto por eso. Yo creo que más bien porque miran que yo no soy nada de presumida. Que ya no es porque soy americana yo me creo -- Yo creo que más bien por eso me llevo bien. Porque yo me-- I fit in the group. Yo me llevo bien con ellas y las entiendo. La mayoría de las veces me vienen a buscar para que les interprete tal cosa al manager. O sea yo me porto bien con ellas. Yo creo que por eso ellas me buscan mucho.
LS: Y ¿además porque su mamá trabaja arriba?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: ¿Cómo es trabajar con ella?
EJA: Casi no la miro en el día, porque ella sale temprano que yo. Entonces yo no más la miro en las mañanas, pero en el día no la miro. Es algo que ya me acostumbré.
LS: ¿Por cuánto tiempo ella había trabajado aquí antes de que usted agarró el trabajo?
EJA: Dos años.
LS: ¿Tuvo problemas de conseguir trabajo por ser inmigrante de El Salvador?
EJA: ¿Ella? Ella no-- Si ella hubiera venido para aplicar para ella misma, hubiera tardado más. Pero como la recomendó una amiga de ella, fue más rápido.
LS: ¿Esa conexión con un conocido es importante?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: ¿Tiene amigos que le ha [EJA estornuda] pedido a que les recomienda [recomiende] usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, he tenido. Pero yo les digo honestamente, si no tienen seguro bueno, no pueden venir. ¿Para qué hacerles la ilusión que van a trabajarse si claramente yo sé que no pueden?
LS: ¿Tienen muchos amigos que no tienen seguro?
EJA: Sí, yo tengo muchos.
LS: ¿Cómo le parece es la experiencia de vivir aquí sin seguro?
EJA: Difícil, porque es difícil encontrar trabajo. Y pues ellos no tienen la misma oportunidad que tiene uno. Ellos navegan más para ( ) un trabajo. Por ejemplo, estudiar es algo-- La reforma migratoria ha ayudado mucho porque muchos han arreglado sobre la reforma migratoria.
LS: ¿Cuál reforma?
EJA: La reforma migratoria de que si estudias y si eres elegible, puedes arreglar algo así.
LS: ¿Para la educación superior?
EJA: Para la educación superior, el colegio.
LS: Y ¿usted tenía pensado ir a la universidad? ¿o no tanto?
EJA: Sí, sí estoy yendo yo.
LS: No me di cuenta.
EJA: Yo voy a Alamance Community College.
LS: ¿Mientras trabaja?
EJA: Voy los [tose] jueves y los sábados.
LS: ¿Le gusta?
EJA: Sí. Sí, me gusta. Estoy estudiando para enfermera. Es bien difícil, pero lo voy a lograr.
LS: ¿Cuántos años le faltan?
EJA: Dos. Sí porque quiero sacar el bachillerato.
LS: Claro. Bueno y ya habló un poco de eso, pero-- Durante las reuniones con el equipo del comedor, ¿qué le parece es su rol entre los empleados? ¿Se sintió alguna vez como una intermediaria?
EJA: Yo les interpreto todo el tiempo. Yeah yo soy la que les estoy interpretando. Al principio sí me daba-- ¿Cómo explicar? Me daba pena para (meterme) en frente de todos para interpretar. Pero ya después me acostumbré.
LS: Seguramente ellos lo agradecen.
EJA: Sí, lo agradecen.
LS: ¿Le gusta vivir en Carolina del Norte, en Durham?
EJA: Sí, me gusta.
LS: Entonces, entre semana trabaja todos los días, salvo jueves y sábado que va a estudiar. Y después ¿tiene algún día libre?
EJA: Los sábados [tose] y los jueves.
LS: Pero estos son para estudiar.
EJA: Para estudiar. Sí mi schedule es difícil [se ríe].
LS: ¿Tiene algo de tiempo libre?
EJA: Sí, me hago eso, el tiempo. Hago que tenga tiempo libre.
LS: ¿Todos--usted y sus hermanas y su madre-- todos viven juntos en la misma casa en Durham?
EJA: Yo, mi mamá, mi papá y una prima, todos vivimos juntos. Mi hermana, la que sigue a mí, ella se juntó con su novio. Y mi hermana, la chiquita, ella vive en Raleigh porque estudia en la universidad de Meredith College.
LS: ¡Mi mejor amiga estudia ahí!
EJA: ¿Sí?
LS: ¿En cuál año está?
EJA: Sophomore.
LS: Okay, ella es senior. Entonces, a lo mejor no se conozcan.
EJA: mhm, she’s a sophomore.
LS: Qué bien.
EJA: Le encanta esa escuela [tose].
LS: Una mujerería.
EJA: Sí. Pero le gusta.
LS: ¿En dónde se imagina usted que estará dentro de dos años?
EJA: ¿En dónde?
LS: Metafóricamente. [se ríe]
EJA: Espero en trabajar como enfermera. Estar trabajando en una clínica o un hospital. Quisiera poder ir a México y trabajar un tiempo allá como enfermera.
LS: ¿En Guerrero?
EJA: En Guerrero. En los ranchos, porque es-- Cuando se enferman las personas, no está luego a luego ahí la clínica. Es media hora, cuarenta-cinco minutos. Muchas personas fallecen sobre de que llegan luego. No se corren luego de lo que tienen.
LS: Entonces, tal vez quiere trabajar por un rato.
EJA: Me gustaría. Es algo que tengo pensado.
LS: ¿Qué le parece que sería la experiencia vivir en México después de todo una vida en Estados Unidos?
EJA: Va a ser algo diferente. Va a ser algo muy diferente.
LS: ¿Le parece que le van a recibir la gente ahí?
EJA: Yo pienso que sí. Yo pienso que sí me van a recibir [tose]. Van a estar alegres de poder tener a alguien ahí en el rancho.
LS: Claro. Y ¿su padre creció en un rancho?
EJA: Mi padre creció en un rancho.
LS: Y a ver, ¿Qué más? Bueno, última pregunta sería, ¿Cuáles han sido algunos logros que usted está orgullosa de haber alcanzado?
EJA: Graduarme. Graduarme de la high school. Un logro que también he hecho es estudiar. Estar estudiando. Eso ya es un logro. Tener la oportunidad de estudiar. [estornuda]
LS: ¿Fue difícil graduarse?
EJA: Yo me-- Yo en high school era muy inteligente. Yo en high school era muy inteligente. Mi GPA era de 3.9. Era una niña enfocada en la escuela. Pero me cuando-- Mi último semestre del doce grado, yo me junté con mi novio y estuve casada por cinco años.
LS: [expresión de sorprendida] ¡Whoo!
EJA: Estuve casada por cinco años.
LS: Nuevo cuento. [se ríe]
EJA: Yes. Sí. Entonces logré graduarme de la high school, pero no estudié luego. Yo apenas empecé a estudiar hace-- En el 2012.
LS: Entonces, a lo mejor hubiera ido a la universidad, tal vez.
EJA: Sí. Yo hubiera ido a la universidad. Ya (hubiera hasta) graduada.
LS: ¿Cinco años?
EJA: Sí.
LS: Y él, ¿Cómo era? o ¿cómo es?
EJA: Él era inmigrante. Yo tenía diecisiete, y él tenía diecinueve [tose].
LA: ¿Se conocieron ahí en el high school?
EJA: Mhm, pero él no iba a la escuela. Yo lo conocí sobre unas primas que iban a la high school conmigo. So, sí eso fue. Yo le estaba arreglando a él. Yo le estaba arreglando papeles a él. Yo le metí la aplicación y todo. Ya le habían aceptado-- Me habían aceptado la aplicación y todo. Y ya le iban a dar la cita para ir a Ciudad Juárez, en México. Pero él cayó en la cárcel.
LS: ¿Era de Ciudad Juárez?
EJA: No. Él es que Guerrero también. De un rancho cerca de donde es mi papá. Ciudad Juárez es donde van todos cuando están arreglando para papeles, o allá en México las personas que quieren aplicar para visa-- visa de seis años, un año, diez años, o visa para trabajar-- es ahí donde van. Es la ciudad donde está mero la oficina de inmigración y todo eso. La ciudad Juárez.
LS: Entonces ya había arreglado los papeles.
EJA: Sí pero él cayó en la cárcel entonces tuve que cancelar todo. Porque él cayó en la cárcel y no había solución. Él fue-- He was charged of a felony. Entonces, cuando están cargados con una felonía el gobierno o inmigración no lo perdona. Cuando tiene ese debe de papeles, el gobierno no los perdona. So, tuve que cancelar todo. Perdió la oportunidad.
LS: Qué pena, por una mala decisión.
EJA: Por una mala decisión, exactamente. Sí, pero estoy divorciada. Me divorcié agosto de 2013.
LS: No me parece justo que algunas personas tengan más de una oportunidad—más de una chance-- y que otras personas toman una mala decisión y ya está.
EJA: Echan a perder la oportunidad. Y hay otras personas que desean tener esa oportunidad, y no la tienen.
LS: Y otras personas que tienen oportunidad. Echa a perder la oportunidad. Y después, le perdonan, y tienen otras oportunidades.
EJA: Sí, tienes razón.
LS: Entonces, ahora está bien usted. Trabajando, viviendo con sus padres, saliendo con sus primas y amigas y hermanas. [EJA tose]
EJA: mhm. Ha sido difícil. Ha sido difícil, pero lo he logrado.
LS: Dentro de cinco años, ¿se imagina que va a vivir en Carolina del Norte? ¿Le gustaría vivir aquí a largo plazo?
EJA: Sí. Sí, me gustaría.
LS: Y ¿se imagina que va a seguir trabajando en el comedor durante eses dos años que vienen, mientras estudia?
EJA: A la mejor sí, no estoy muy segura. No estoy segura. Porque a la mejor empiezo a trabajar en agosto como asistente de enfermera en el hospital. A lo mejor en agosto ya no estaré.
LS: Qué pena. No la veré. Bueno, le aplauso [se ríe] por todo--.
EJA: [se ríe] Gracias.
LS: Todo lo que ha logrado. Bueno, ¿algo más que le gustaría decir o comentar sobre la inmigración?
EJA: No, es todo.
LS: Bueno, muchas gracias.
EJA: Gracias.
Es: Restricciones
Sin restricciones. Abierta para investigación.
Es: Ocupación del entrevistado
Empleados del servicio de alimentos
Es: Género de entrevistado
Mujer
Es: Lengua de le entrevista
Español
Es: Resumen
Joanna Antúnez nació en los Estados Unidos de padre mexicano y madre salvadoreña. Ahora, en la mitad de sus veinte años, Antúnez ha vivido con su familia en Florida, en Texas, y -desde que tenía once años - en Carolina del Norte. Antúnez estudia para ser enfermera en la escuela técnica comunitaria de Alamance y trabaja en la cafetería Lenoir en el campus de la Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill. Ella describe sus antecedentes de migración familiares y las diferentes experiencias de vivir en Durham, en Carolina del Norte, en comparación con Texas, donde hay una comunidad latina más grande. Ser una una americana bilingüe de segunda generación influye en la percepción que tiene de trabajar en la cafetería de la universidad entre muchos inmigrantes latinoamericanos que han migrado más recientemente; ella desempeña el papel de “intermediaria” con sus compañeras de trabajo, ayudándolas a navegar al sitio de trabajo y traduciendo entre los empleados hispanohablantes y los gerentes que hablan inglés. Antúnez se identifica como mexicana y pasa la mayor parte de su tiempo con otros mexicanos localmente y usa Facebook para mantenerse conectada con la gente en México. El contenido de la entrevista es interesante también para investigaciones lingüísticas, con muchos ejemplos de espanglish, y de marcadores discursivos que indican duda en inglés y español.
Es: Citación
Entrevista con Ebelyn Joanna Antúnez por Lindsay Stewart, 01 Abril 2014, R-0702, en Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill.
Es: Temas
Experiencia migratoria; Redes sociales; Cultura; Lenguaje y comunicación; Universidad de Carolina del Norte en Chapel Hill
Es: Transcripción
Lindsay Stewart: Soy Lindsay Stewart, entrevistando a Joanna.
Ebelyn Joanna Antunez: Antunez.
LS: Antunez. Estamos en Lenoir Dining Hall. El primero de abril, 2014. Bueno, ¿está lista?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: Bueno, primero, ¿de dónde es su familia?
EJA: Mi papá es de México y mi mamá es de El Salvador.
LS: ¿Y es de la segunda generación usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, soy la segunda generación.
LS: ¿Cómo llegaron su familia a los Estados Unidos?
EJA: Mi papá se vino a los catorce años. Se vino de mojado, cruzó el río. Y mi mamá se vino a los diecisiete. Igual, se vino de mojada. Pero ella todavía tuvo que pasar tres fronteras, lo de Guatemala y honduras, y Guatemala y México, y México y los Estados Unidos. Mi mamá estuvo más-- navegó más para venir aquí, que mi papá. [tose]
LS: ¿Cómo fue ese proceso para ellos? ¿Le han dicho del cruzo?
EJA: Más antes-- Sí era difícil, pero era como decir-- Era difícil por el aspecto de que tienen que caminar y todo eso, pero ahora se han enseñado nuevas cosas y los de inmigración se han puestos más estrictos. Entonces ahora se puede decir que es difícil para poder cruzar para Estados Unidos. Pero mi mamá sí se sufrió mucho porque tuvo que cruzar tres fronteras. Y todavía en la frontera de México y Estados Unidos, ella tuvo que caminar tres días.
LS: ¿Usaron un pollero?
EJA: ¿Un pollero? Sí, usaron. Sí, mi papá--Cuando él se vino él también caminó, pero pues él es hombre. Él aguanta más.
LS: ¿Tiene algunas reflexiones sobre las motivaciones de sus padres por las que vinieron a los Estado Unidos? ¿Le han comentado de sus motivaciones por haber venido?
EJA: Sí, mi papá vino porque-- Ellos en total son siete, siete hermanos y hermanas. Entonces mi papá fue criado por su abuelita, no por su mamá. Mi abuelita, la mamá de mi papá, ella los dejó allá y ella se vino aquí a Estados Unidos a trabajar y mandarles dinero a ellos allá. Entonces mi papá cuando cumplió los catorce años, él se decidió venirse porque no quería que mi abuelita trabajara para mantenerlos allá a ellos. Eso fue el motivo que él quiso venirse porque él quería trabajar para poder sacar a sus hermanos y a mi abuelita y a mis tíos adelante. Porque mi papá se crió muy pobre.
LS: ¿En cuál parte de México es?
EJA: Guerrero.
LS: Guerrero.
EJA: Guerrero, México. Es como-- Es en la parte que se llama-- Está Guerrero, Michoacán, Tierracaliente [señalando con las manos la geografía]. De ahí es él.
LS: ¿Y su madre?
EJA: Mi mamá es de San Miguel. Es de San Miguel. No conozco allá.
LS: ¿Ella le ha comentado de sus motivaciones por haber venido a los Estados Unidos?
EJA: [tose] Sí, ella se quiso venir porque la mayoría de sus hermanos y hermanas están aquí en Estados Unidos. Su hermana, la mayor, le seguía insistiendo en que se viniera para acá. Mi abuelita--la mamá de ella--ella tiene tienda allá. Ella vende cosas. Entonces mi mamá estaba bien. O sea, se puede decir que-- por navegar mucho, que no tenía para comer o algo-- sí pobre eran. Pero como mi abuelita tiene una tienda (donde) vende sus cosas. Entonces ella no más por venir a trabajar igual para mandarle a mi abuelita.
LS: ¿Tenían familia o amigos en los Estados Unidos que facilitaron o posibilitaron su llegada?
EJA: Sí. ¿Los dos?
LS: Mhm.
EJA: Sí. Mi papá--.
LS: Su madre.
EJA: Mhm.
LS: Claro.
EJA: Mi abuelita, la mamá de él. Y mi mamá, su hermana mayor. Su hermana mayor con su otro hermano.
LS: ¿Les informaron del proceso? ¿De cómo conseguir pollero, por ejemplo?
EJA: Sí. Por ejemplo, la hermana de mi mamá, ella es la que se cargó del pollero y del dinero. Mi mamá no más se vino y ya. Igual, acá cuando se vino mi papá-- No fue mi abuelita, sino que fue un tío de mi papá quien se cargó del pollero y todo eso.
LS: ¿Y usted tiene hermanos?
EJA: Yo tengo dos hermanas.
LS: ¿Mayores?
EJA: No, menores. Yo soy la mayor. Sí, la mayor.
LS: ¿Sus padres les contaban cuentos de inmigrar cuando crecieron, o no tanto?
EJA: [pensando] Más mi papá. Mi mamá casi no. Me gusta preguntar. Soy yo que preguntaba, y ellos me decían.
LS: ¿Siempre ha vivido en el estado de Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Yo? No, yo he vivido en Florida, en Texas, y en Norte Carolina.
LS: ¿Cómo llegaron su familia, o usted por su parte, a ese estado, a Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Cómo llegamos?
LS: [afirma que sí]
EJA: Okay, viví ocho años en Florida. Mi papá era--Cuando tenía tres años, mi papá trabajaba pishqueando un naranja. ¿Si sabe que es pishquear?
LS: No. [se ríe]
EJA: Ellos le llaman pishquear-- Es dig for oranges in-- Dig ‘em and, how do you call it? [snaps fingers]. Like get the dirt, la tierra preparada para sembrar. That’s the word I was looking for. Sorry! Para sembrar. Sembraban y pishqueaban. Ya que la naranja estaba lista ellos sacaban las naranjas.
LS: Nunca había escuchado esa palabra, pishquear.
EJA: Así le dicen.
LS: Ni suena español.
EJA: No. Así le dicen ellos. Like la mayoría de los mexicanos cuando a veces les pregunta, “¿Qué es trabajado?” En la pishca [se ríe]. Yeah, algo diferente.
LS: [se ríe] Entonces, él trabajaba de pishquear.
EJA: De pishquear. Después, agarró un trabajo de trailero. Trabajaba para um-- Él le dejaba el cargamento a los Home Depots, a todos los Home Depots de planta. Entonces ya después lo mandaban para Texas y radicó un año ahí en Texas y nos fuimos para allá. Y ya después de ir a Texas lo mandaban para acá, para Norte Carolina. Es cuando nosotros nos mudamos para acá.
LS: ¿Cuántos años tenía en ese entonces?
EJA: ¿Yo? Yo me mudé a Norte Carolina cuando tenía once años. Once, doce años.
LS: ¿Hizo el middle school y el high school acá?
EJA: Sí, middle school y high school aquí.
LS: ¿Cómo fue esa experiencia de pasar por el sistema educativo de Carolina del Norte?
EJA: Fue algo muy diferente. En Houston-- porque es donde estábamos-- ahí en la mayoría de las escuelas, las maestras hablan español y eran puros hispanos y todo español. Entonces cuando yo vine para acá, para Carolina del Norte, se me hizo muy difícil a mí y a mis hermanas. Bueno, más a mí porque yo estaba más grande. Era más difícil entender, yo creo, o escribir el inglés por lo mismo de que me acostumbré al español. Entonces yo tuve que agarrar-- Yo en middle school y el noveno grado-- De middle school a noveno grado yo estuve en ESL.
LS: ¿Y eso le ayudó?
EJA: Sí, eso me ayudó. Ya en el noveno grado ya--.
LS: ¿Ya se sentía bien?
EJA: Sí, ya me sentía bien, pero se me dificultó porque aquí no había español y donde vivíamos era rara. No había muchos hispanos.
LS: ¿En cuál parte de Carolina del Norte vivía?
EJA: Para allá, para Marion, North Carolina.
LS: Las montañas.
EJA: Las montañas, yes. Y acá sí cuando llegué-- cuando nosotros nos mudamos para ahí-- casi no habían hispanos.
LS: Pero hoy en día cada vez más, ¿no?
EJA: Hoy sí, cada vez más [tose].
LS: ¿Usted puede hablar sobre las comunidades de las cuales usted forma parte en Carolina del Norte?
EJA: ¿Comunidades? Yo casi no estoy metida en comunidades. Soy apartada de eso.
LS: O digo--Tal vez hay mejor manera de decirlo. ¿En cuáles contextos, por ejemplo, encuentra amigos por lo general? ¿Se conecta con la gente?
EJA: En Facebook.
LS: En Facebook.
EJA: En Facebook. Yeah la mayoría del tiempo es por Facebook.
LS: ¿Esos son amigos nuevos o amigos que ya tenía en Texas?
EJA: Son de todo. Viejos y nuevos.
LS: Y los nuevos amigos-- ¿Cómo agarra nuevos amigos, por ejemplo? ¿Va a la iglesia o va a--?
EJA: Bueno, yo salgo mucho a fiestas con mis amigas, mis hermanas, mis primas. Salimos todas juntas. Entonces siempre conozco a alguien más. Nos hacemos amigos o nos hacemos amigas y así. Por Facebook me he hecho amigos de muchas personas que están en México. Pero nos hemos hecho amigos sobre la familia, que éste es mi primo, ésta es mi amiga y así.
LS: ¿Y se conectan así?
EJA: Mhm, se conectan así.
LS: ¿Ha visitado a México en algún momento?
EJA: Sí. Sí, muchas veces. Yo voy y vengo.
LS: ¿A Guerrero?
EJA: Aha a Guerrero. La última vez que fui fue en el 2010.
LS: ¿Porque todavía tiene familia allá?
EJA: Sí, todavía tengo familia allá. Tengo a mi bisabuelita, la abuela de mi papá, a mis tíos y tías.
LS: ¿Viven en Carolina del Norte-- bueno, dijo sus hermanas y sus primas-- ¿Y sus padres además?
EJA: Sí, todos en Carolina del Norte.
LS: ¿Todos en Marion?
EJA: No, ahora en Durham.
LS: ¿Todos?
EJA: Todos. Todos nos mudamos para acá.
LS: ¿Qué les parece la diferencia entre Marion y Durham?
EJA: Mucho mejor. A mí me gusta aquí mejor. Marion casi no me gustaba. (Hay) montañas. No había mucho por donde salir. Y aquí sí, es más social. Hay más gente. Hay más cosas que hacer [tose].
LS: Claro. Bueno, ya hablamos un poco de eso pero, ¿tiene amigos que han inmigrado o que se mueven entre los países? ¿que van y vienen como usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, tengo. Tengo muchos.
LS: ¿Cómo se siente usted cuando ellos hablan de la inmigración? ¿Tiene una conexión con ellos? Porque es americana. Es salvadoreña y es mexicana, pero también es americana. Entonces, ¿se siente como una distancia de ellos que son inmigrantes, que vienen de México o de El Salvador, por ejemplo?
EJA: ¿Qué si yo me siento o si ellos sienten?
LS: Bueno, los dos.
EJA: No porque yo me pongo en el lugar de ellos. Y yo me comporto como si-- Yo nunca he lucido mejor que nadie. Ya no más que porque tuve la dicha de nacer aquí no me hace mejor, si me entiende. Si ellos vienen aquí es por un propósito, para poder trabajar, para poder salir adelante. Porque en México obviamente hay mucho delincuencia. Hay mucho-- ¿Qué se puede decir? Muchas cosas. Entonces a veces se puede trabajar, a veces no. Entonces yo me pongo en lugar de ellos. Yo no me hago menos que ellos ni más que ellos. Y ellos lo saben.
LS: Claro. ¿Cómo ha sido su experiencia con la inmigración?
EJA: [pensando]
LS: Por ejemplo, ¿ha tenido experiencias en que alguien cree que usted es de otro país, que es inmigrante?
EJA: ¿Qué me confundan?
LS: Sí. [EJA tose]
EJA: Sí. Muchas veces me han confundido. Sí. Sí, muchas veces, pero no me molesta. No. No me molesta.
LS: ¿Y piensan que es de México?
EJA: Sí de México. Mexicana.
LS: ¿Se acuerda de alguna experiencia en particular, que le destaca?
EJA: Bueno a veces-- En el middle school, hubo a veces ocasiones donde morenos me decían que me fuera para atrás, para México, donde yo tenía que estar. Pero, esas cosas así no me ofendían, no me molestaban. Porque, ¿Para qué hacer algo chico, grande?
LS: Hablaba de que hubo una diferencia entre las escuelas en Houston y las escuelas de aquí, de Marion, en cuanto a la cantidad de hispanos. ¿Tenía un grupo de hispanos ahí en middle school y high school, o más bien integraba con toda la gente?
EJA: En middle school yo --¿Cómo explicar? Yo era apartada. Like no-- Era bien apartada. Es decir, sí me hablaba con los hispanos, pero no me juntaba con ellos. Yo era apartada y en high school es cuando yo fui a ajuntarme con los hispanos con los americanos y así. Pero en middle school fui apartada.
LS: Me imagino que tenía sus hermana, entonces no tenía esa necesidad de tener muchas amigas en la escuela.
EJA: Sí. Sí, tuve mis hermanas.
LS: ¿Y porqué piensa que hubo ese cambio, entre middle school y high school, de, de repente, no ser tan apartada?
EJA: Yo creo que era porque en high school habían más hispanos. Era más libre, más open. Entonces tuve la oportunidad de conocer muchas personas. Es ahí cuando yo empezó a ajuntarme con los hispanos y los americanos.
LS: ¿Hablaban entre ustedes en español, por lo general? ¿o un poco de Spanglish?
LS: [tose] En español. Entre nosotros hablamos en español que metieron?
EJA: [se ríe] Sí, sí. Siempre, eso es algo normal yo creo. Porque yo todo el tiempo cuando estoy con mis hermanas siempre empezamos hablar en español y terminamos hablar en inglés [estornuda]. Es algo que se nos sale [se ríe]. O si no, empezamos en inglés y terminamos en español.
LS: ¿Cómo cree que ha sido diferente o similar su experiencia de vivir en los Estados Unidos en comparación con alguien que haya inmigrado para aquí?
EJA: Hay diferencia. Hay diferencia. Porque la vida allá en México es muy diferente. De todas formas. De, por ejemplo, allá estás-- Te sientes libre. Y aquí te sientes encerrado. Allá-- ¿Cómo explicar? La forma en que cocinas es diferente. Los horarios de comer son diferente. El vestuario es diferente. ¿Qué más? Allá es, pues es rancho.
LS: ¿Le parece que ha sido diferente su experiencia de vivir en los Estados Unidos que la vida de los inmigrantes aquí-- cuando inmigran aquí, que no están en México, sino viviendo aquí-- que hay una diferencia entre usted que es americana y ellos que son inmigrante?
EJA: ¿En la forma de vivir?
LS: [afirma que sí]
EJA: Sí, sí hay diferencia. Porque es difícil para ellos adaptarse a la vida de aquí. Sí es difícil. Lo logran, pero a veces tardan. Hay unos que tardan para adaptarse, y hay otros que no, que lo se adaptan. Pero sí, hay diferencia.
LS: ¿Cuáles cosas en particular puede comentar de-- ¿Cuáles cosas le parece son difíciles para asimilarse o adaptarse para ellos?
EJA: Por ejemplo, no hablar inglés. Eso es más importante. No hablar inglés. No poder comunicarse con alguien. ¿Qué más? Estar encerrado. Vienes de un rancho donde estás libre, a inmigrar aquí donde vas a estar encerrado en un apartamento, en una casa, si me entiendes. Entonces acostumbrarse a esto es difícil.
LS: Claro. Aun más para los mayores.
EJA: Sí. Sí.
LS: En high school, estos amigos con quienes pasaba tiempo-- ¿La mayoría fueron americanos o algunos fueron inmigrantes?
EJA: Inmigrantes. La mayoría eran inmigrantes.
LS: ¿De México?
EJA: De México. Yo casi con gente centroamericana no me juntaba. No es que no haya querido sino que [estornuda] ellos siempre eran muy apartados de los mexicanos.
LS: ¿Por no querer mezclarse con los mexicanos?
EJA: Aha, por no querer mezclarse con los mexicanos. Hay algunos centroamericanos que no pueden mirar a los mexicanos.
LS: Y usted tiene-- Está en una posición interesante porque es ambos hija de un mexicano y una centroamericana, una salvadoreña. ¿Cómo afecta eso su percepción de ambos grupos? ¿Se sentía un poco de una intermediaria entre ellos?
EJA: No, porque mi mamá se adaptó mucho a mi papá. Dejó todas las costumbres salvadoreñas. Dejó la comida--.
LS: ¡Las pupusas! [se ríe]
EJA: ¡Sí, todo! Entonces ella se adaptó mucho a lo mexicano. Entonces sí crecimos nosotros. Mexicano, mexicano, mexicano, si me entiendes. Entonces no me (sentía mal) y no me sentía estar en el medio porque fui más criada mexicana que ella. Ella mucho se adaptó a mi papá. Ella casi-- El salvadoreña no nos enseñó mucho, si me entiendes.
LS: ¿No ha visitado a El Salvador?
EJA: No. No he visitado.
LS: Entonces, ¿se identifica mexicana usted?
EJA: Aha, mexicana. [tose]
LS: Pero, americana. Mexicana de origen.
EJA: [tose] Pero yo, aha--. Pero, pues llevo sangre salvadoreña.
LS: ¿Cómo fue la experiencia de encontrar empleo para usted? Es decir, la experiencia de inserción laboral después de high school.
EJA: No fue difícil porque como miraban que era bilingüe es algo que me ayudó. No se me hizo difícil para mí para nada.
LS: ¿Se mudaron para aquí, para Carolina del Norte cuando tenía once años--?
EJA: Aha.
LS: Si no me equivoca. Y después para Durham cuando tenía, ¿cuántos?
EJA: Catorce.
LS: Catorce. Entonces, ¿hizo el high school en Durham?
EJA: No. Lo hice-- Miento. Quince años aquí en Durham. Tenía quince años, perdón. Cuando me mudé a Durham era quince años. Tenía yo quince años.
LS: Pero todavía le faltaban algunos años en high school, ¿no?, a los quince años.
EJA: Sí. Sí, me faltaban. El high school la hizo aquí en Durham.
LS: Decía que agarró trabajo bastante fácilmente.
EJA: Sí. Sí, fácil. No navegué.
LS: ¿Cómo se enteró de su primer empleo?
EJA: ¿Cómo? Mi primer empleo fue a los diecisiete años. Trabajé en Target. De cajero. Yo no más llené la aplicación y luego me llevaron para una entrevista y agarré el trabajo.
LS: Y después, ¿Cómo fue conectado al campus de UNC?
EJA: Aquí porque mi mamá ella trabajaba aquí. Mi mamá trabajaba aquí y mi mamá me recomendó con la manager.
LS: ¿Trabajaba aquí abajo?
EJA: Sí. Mainstreet.
LS: Pero ahora no.
EJA: Hoy trabaja en Healthy Bowl y Top of Lenoir.
LS: Entonces tal vez la conozco. ¿Cómo se llama?
EJA: Joanna.
LS: También. No la conozco.
EJA: [afirma que sí]
LS: Qué bueno. ¿Había sido empleada en un comedor o algo parecido antes de agarrar este trabajo?
EJA: ¿Antes de eso si había-- No. Algo nuevo para mí.
LS: ¿Cómo fue el proceso de conseguir empleo en el comedor de UNC? La recomendó su mamá, y ¿después tuvo que hacer una entrevista?
EJA: Llené la aplicación, y me hicieron una entrevista y tuve una semana de entrenamiento.
LS: ¿Le parece que sería distinto ese proceso si usted fuera inmigrante?
EJA: No. No porque aquí no dejan-- No aceptan-- ¿Cómo le dijera? Aquí no dejan trabajar a gente que no tenga seguro bueno. Aquí tiene como-- Ha de tener ya tres años que no agarran a hispanos. Como dos [años].
LS: ¿Nadie que sea hispano?
EJA: Han agarrado a morenos y filipino
LS: Claro.
EJA: Pero hispanos ya-- Todos los hispanos que trabajamos aquí todos hemos estado desde que-- Por mucho tiempo.
LS: ¿Aun si tengan papeles?
EJA: Aa sí, si tienen papeles sí los agarran. Pero no he visto que haigan [hayan] metido.
LS: ¿A los hispanos? ¿Hace tres años?
EJA: Sí, ya hace dos o tres años. Ya tienen mucho que no--.
LS: ¿Eso le parece que fue una decisión a propósito de no querer contratar a más hispanos tal vez por preocupación que no tienen papeles?
EJA: A lo mejor sí. Porque más antes se oía que corrían a personas porque descubría que su segura era trueco.
LS: Interesante. Y ¿cómo es trabajar con muchas personas que han inmigrado, aquí en el comedor?
EJA: Me gusta. Nos llevamos bien. Me llevo muy bien con ellas.
LS: Ellas, dijo. ¿No hay [señores]?
EJA: Sí hay pocos, pero no más los saludo, o la “adiós” y así. Pero con las mujeres sí me llevo bien con ellas. Relajeamos mucho.
LS: ¿Le parece que una cierta solidaridad entre los inmigrantes hispanohablantes que trabajan aquí en el comedor?
EJA: No. Bueno, depende. Depende. Porque hay algunos que son más callados-- más apartados-- y prefieren no decir nada y quedarse callados, si me entiende. Yo creo que depende en uno.
LS: ¿Pero entre algunos hay una cierta conexión?
EJA: Sí, sí.
LS: Bueno, y ya me dijo que se relaciona bien con ellas, que se lleva bien con esas mujeres.
EJA: Sí.
LS: ¿Le parece que ellos la tratan distinta por ser americana?
EJA: [tose] Yo creo no es tanto por eso. Yo creo que más bien porque miran que yo no soy nada de presumida. Que ya no es porque soy americana yo me creo -- Yo creo que más bien por eso me llevo bien. Porque yo me-- I fit in the group. Yo me llevo bien con ellas y las entiendo. La mayoría de las veces me vienen a buscar para que les interprete tal cosa al manager. O sea yo me porto bien con ellas. Yo creo que por eso ellas me buscan mucho.
LS: Y ¿además porque su mamá trabaja arriba?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: ¿Cómo es trabajar con ella?
EJA: Casi no la miro en el día, porque ella sale temprano que yo. Entonces yo no más la miro en las mañanas, pero en el día no la miro. Es algo que ya me acostumbré.
LS: ¿Por cuánto tiempo ella había trabajado aquí antes de que usted agarró el trabajo?
EJA: Dos años.
LS: ¿Tuvo problemas de conseguir trabajo por ser inmigrante de El Salvador?
EJA: ¿Ella? Ella no-- Si ella hubiera venido para aplicar para ella misma, hubiera tardado más. Pero como la recomendó una amiga de ella, fue más rápido.
LS: ¿Esa conexión con un conocido es importante?
EJA: Mhm.
LS: ¿Tiene amigos que le ha [EJA estornuda] pedido a que les recomienda [recomiende] usted?
EJA: Sí. Sí, he tenido. Pero yo les digo honestamente, si no tienen seguro bueno, no pueden venir. ¿Para qué hacerles la ilusión que van a trabajarse si claramente yo sé que no pueden?
LS: ¿Tienen muchos amigos que no tienen seguro?
EJA: Sí, yo tengo muchos.
LS: ¿Cómo le parece es la experiencia de vivir aquí sin seguro?
EJA: Difícil, porque es difícil encontrar trabajo. Y pues ellos no tienen la misma oportunidad que tiene uno. Ellos navegan más para ( ) un trabajo. Por ejemplo, estudiar es algo-- La reforma migratoria ha ayudado mucho porque muchos han arreglado sobre la reforma migratoria.
LS: ¿Cuál reforma?
EJA: La reforma migratoria de que si estudias y si eres elegible, puedes arreglar algo así.
LS: ¿Para la educación superior?
EJA: Para la educación superior, el colegio.
LS: Y ¿usted tenía pensado ir a la universidad? ¿o no tanto?
EJA: Sí, sí estoy yendo yo.
LS: No me di cuenta.
EJA: Yo voy a Alamance Community College.
LS: ¿Mientras trabaja?
EJA: Voy los [tose] jueves y los sábados.
LS: ¿Le gusta?
EJA: Sí. Sí, me gusta. Estoy estudiando para enfermera. Es bien difícil, pero lo voy a lograr.
LS: ¿Cuántos años le faltan?
EJA: Dos. Sí porque quiero sacar el bachillerato.
LS: Claro. Bueno y ya habló un poco de eso, pero-- Durante las reuniones con el equipo del comedor, ¿qué le parece es su rol entre los empleados? ¿Se sintió alguna vez como una intermediaria?
EJA: Yo les interpreto todo el tiempo. Yeah yo soy la que les estoy interpretando. Al principio sí me daba-- ¿Cómo explicar? Me daba pena para (meterme) en frente de todos para interpretar. Pero ya después me acostumbré.
LS: Seguramente ellos lo agradecen.
EJA: Sí, lo agradecen.
LS: ¿Le gusta vivir en Carolina del Norte, en Durham?
EJA: Sí, me gusta.
LS: Entonces, entre semana trabaja todos los días, salvo jueves y sábado que va a estudiar. Y después ¿tiene algún día libre?
EJA: Los sábados [tose] y los jueves.
LS: Pero estos son para estudiar.
EJA: Para estudiar. Sí mi schedule es difícil [se ríe].
LS: ¿Tiene algo de tiempo libre?
EJA: Sí, me hago eso, el tiempo. Hago que tenga tiempo libre.
LS: ¿Todos--usted y sus hermanas y su madre-- todos viven juntos en la misma casa en Durham?
EJA: Yo, mi mamá, mi papá y una prima, todos vivimos juntos. Mi hermana, la que sigue a mí, ella se juntó con su novio. Y mi hermana, la chiquita, ella vive en Raleigh porque estudia en la universidad de Meredith College.
LS: ¡Mi mejor amiga estudia ahí!
EJA: ¿Sí?
LS: ¿En cuál año está?
EJA: Sophomore.
LS: Okay, ella es senior. Entonces, a lo mejor no se conozcan.
EJA: mhm, she’s a sophomore.
LS: Qué bien.
EJA: Le encanta esa escuela [tose].
LS: Una mujerería.
EJA: Sí. Pero le gusta.
LS: ¿En dónde se imagina usted que estará dentro de dos años?
EJA: ¿En dónde?
LS: Metafóricamente. [se ríe]
EJA: Espero en trabajar como enfermera. Estar trabajando en una clínica o un hospital. Quisiera poder ir a México y trabajar un tiempo allá como enfermera.
LS: ¿En Guerrero?
EJA: En Guerrero. En los ranchos, porque es-- Cuando se enferman las personas, no está luego a luego ahí la clínica. Es media hora, cuarenta-cinco minutos. Muchas personas fallecen sobre de que llegan luego. No se corren luego de lo que tienen.
LS: Entonces, tal vez quiere trabajar por un rato.
EJA: Me gustaría. Es algo que tengo pensado.
LS: ¿Qué le parece que sería la experiencia vivir en México después de todo una vida en Estados Unidos?
EJA: Va a ser algo diferente. Va a ser algo muy diferente.
LS: ¿Le parece que le van a recibir la gente ahí?
EJA: Yo pienso que sí. Yo pienso que sí me van a recibir [tose]. Van a estar alegres de poder tener a alguien ahí en el rancho.
LS: Claro. Y ¿su padre creció en un rancho?
EJA: Mi padre creció en un rancho.
LS: Y a ver, ¿Qué más? Bueno, última pregunta sería, ¿Cuáles han sido algunos logros que usted está orgullosa de haber alcanzado?
EJA: Graduarme. Graduarme de la high school. Un logro que también he hecho es estudiar. Estar estudiando. Eso ya es un logro. Tener la oportunidad de estudiar. [estornuda]
LS: ¿Fue difícil graduarse?
EJA: Yo me-- Yo en high school era muy inteligente. Yo en high school era muy inteligente. Mi GPA era de 3.9. Era una niña enfocada en la escuela. Pero me cuando-- Mi último semestre del doce grado, yo me junté con mi novio y estuve casada por cinco años.
LS: [expresión de sorprendida] ¡Whoo!
EJA: Estuve casada por cinco años.
LS: Nuevo cuento. [se ríe]
EJA: Yes. Sí. Entonces logré graduarme de la high school, pero no estudié luego. Yo apenas empecé a estudiar hace-- En el 2012.
LS: Entonces, a lo mejor hubiera ido a la universidad, tal vez.
EJA: Sí. Yo hubiera ido a la universidad. Ya (hubiera hasta) graduada.
LS: ¿Cinco años?
EJA: Sí.
LS: Y él, ¿Cómo era? o ¿cómo es?
EJA: Él era inmigrante. Yo tenía diecisiete, y él tenía diecinueve [tose].
LA: ¿Se conocieron ahí en el high school?
EJA: Mhm, pero él no iba a la escuela. Yo lo conocí sobre unas primas que iban a la high school conmigo. So, sí eso fue. Yo le estaba arreglando a él. Yo le estaba arreglando papeles a él. Yo le metí la aplicación y todo. Ya le habían aceptado-- Me habían aceptado la aplicación y todo. Y ya le iban a dar la cita para ir a Ciudad Juárez, en México. Pero él cayó en la cárcel.
LS: ¿Era de Ciudad Juárez?
EJA: No. Él es que Guerrero también. De un rancho cerca de donde es mi papá. Ciudad Juárez es donde van todos cuando están arreglando para papeles, o allá en México las personas que quieren aplicar para visa-- visa de seis años, un año, diez años, o visa para trabajar-- es ahí donde van. Es la ciudad donde está mero la oficina de inmigración y todo eso. La ciudad Juárez.
LS: Entonces ya había arreglado los papeles.
EJA: Sí pero él cayó en la cárcel entonces tuve que cancelar todo. Porque él cayó en la cárcel y no había solución. Él fue-- He was charged of a felony. Entonces, cuando están cargados con una felonía el gobierno o inmigración no lo perdona. Cuando tiene ese debe de papeles, el gobierno no los perdona. So, tuve que cancelar todo. Perdió la oportunidad.
LS: Qué pena, por una mala decisión.
EJA: Por una mala decisión, exactamente. Sí, pero estoy divorciada. Me divorcié agosto de 2013.
LS: No me parece justo que algunas personas tengan más de una oportunidad—más de una chance-- y que otras personas toman una mala decisión y ya está.
EJA: Echan a perder la oportunidad. Y hay otras personas que desean tener esa oportunidad, y no la tienen.
LS: Y otras personas que tienen oportunidad. Echa a perder la oportunidad. Y después, le perdonan, y tienen otras oportunidades.
EJA: Sí, tienes razón.
LS: Entonces, ahora está bien usted. Trabajando, viviendo con sus padres, saliendo con sus primas y amigas y hermanas. [EJA tose]
EJA: mhm. Ha sido difícil. Ha sido difícil, pero lo he logrado.
LS: Dentro de cinco años, ¿se imagina que va a vivir en Carolina del Norte? ¿Le gustaría vivir aquí a largo plazo?
EJA: Sí. Sí, me gustaría.
LS: Y ¿se imagina que va a seguir trabajando en el comedor durante eses dos años que vienen, mientras estudia?
EJA: A la mejor sí, no estoy muy segura. No estoy segura. Porque a la mejor empiezo a trabajar en agosto como asistente de enfermera en el hospital. A lo mejor en agosto ya no estaré.
LS: Qué pena. No la veré. Bueno, le aplauso [se ríe] por todo--.
EJA: [se ríe] Gracias.
LS: Todo lo que ha logrado. Bueno, ¿algo más que le gustaría decir o comentar sobre la inmigración?
EJA: No, es todo.
LS: Bueno, muchas gracias.
EJA: Gracias.
Interviewee Date of Birth
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Title
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R-0702 -- Antúnez, Ebelyn Joanna.
Description
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Joanna Antunez was born in the United States to a Mexican father and Salvadorian mother. Now in her mid-twenties, Antunez has lived with her family in Florida, Texas, and—since she was eleven years old—in North Carolina. Antunez is now studying to be a nurse at Alamance Community College and works at the Lenoir Dining Hall on the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill campus. Antunez describes her family’s immigrant background and the difference in experience of living in Durham, North Carolina, versus Texas where there is a larger Hispanic community. Being a second-generation, bilingual American shapes her perspective of working at the dining hall on campus among many Latin American immigrants who have more recently migrated; she plays the role of “intermediary” for her female immigrant co-workers, helping them navigate the workplace, and also interpreting between Spanish-speaking employees and the English-speaking management. Antunez identifies as Mexican and spends most of her time with Mexican peers locally, and using Facebook to stay connected with folks back in Mexico. The content of the interview is also interesting for linguistic study, with many instances of Spanglish, as well as English and Spanish hesitation markers.
Source
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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.
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No restrictions. Open to research.
Date
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01 Apr 2014
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R0702_Audio.mp3
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<a href="http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/sohp/id/20976">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Library. Southern Historical Collection.</a>