Isabel Alegría Hernández

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Isabel Hernandez was born in Venezuela and lived there for four years before moving to the United States. Her father entered graduate school in Chicago, Illinois so the family lived in Chicago for four years before moving to North Carolina. In this interview, Hernandez discusses her experiences in the United States and the opportunities that have been available to her and other Latinos. Hernandez also talks about her feelings as a Venezuelan living in the United States and how she identifies more with her Venezuelan heritage than her American upbringing. Despite this, Hernandez does not intend to live permanently in Venezuela again.



Molly Acuff: My name is Molly and I'm here with Isabel in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. How old are you Isabel?
Isabel Hernandez: I'm nineteen.
MA: And where you born?
IH: Maracaibo,Venezuela.
MA: And at what age did you move to the United States?
IH: When I was four.
MA: And why did you come?
IH: Because my dad was coming here to study, to get his Masters.
MA: So your family was able to fly here legally?
IH: Mhm.
MA: Do you have any siblings?
IH: I have an older brother.
MA: And did he come with you as well when your family came?
IH: Yeah.
MA: Do you still have family in Venezuela now?
IH: Yes. My whole family is there. We're the only ones on both sides of my parents' families that aren't there.
MA: Do you ever get to see them?
IH: I do, not very often though. The last time I saw them was five years ago. I'm planning on seeing them this summer again.
MA: And was that on a trip to Venezuela or did them come here?
IH: That was on a trip there.
MA: So where in the United States do you live now?
IH: I live in Charlotte, North Carolina.
MA: And did you come immediately from Venezuela to Charlotte, or where did you first come in the United States?
IH: When we first came we moved to the suburbs in Chicago, it's called Lombard, and we lived there for four years. And then we moved to Charlotte and lived there for nine months, and then just outside of Charlotte we moved to Huntersville, which is really close to it, and we lived there for seven years. Then I moved to Charlotte again, and I've been there for, not including here, I've been there for four years.
MA: So the school your dad was studying at was in Chicago?
IH: Yes.
MA: What school was he at?
IH: Northern Baptist Theological Seminary.
MA: Ok, so he was coming here to be a Baptist minister?
IH: Well he already was, he just wanted to further his studies.
MA: And is that common in Venezuela? The Baptist religion, or sect of Christianity?
IH: Um, I don't think so. I think that most of them are Evangelical. I don't really know what the distinction is, but they usually call themselves that. They don't really say "I'm a Christian" they say "I'm evangelical." I don't hear a lot of, maybe because my family's not Catholic, I don't hear like anything else other than evangelical or anything so, I guess popular. They, so my parents they went to this Baptist Institute and the institute was founded by missionaries, American Baptist missionaries, and they- so I think that's where the influence came from. It came from here, not from there. So, I don't think it's very common.
MA: So when your family moved here and your dad was studying, did your parents always know they wanted to stay in the United States, or did your dad have the intention of taking what he learned back to Venezuela?
IH: The intention was to move back after four years, after he got his masters, but the job position that he was promised wasn't there anymore. So he got three job offers here, after he was done with his studies to be a pastor, in three different places, so we stayed. And, well -first he came here with a student visa, and then we had to change that, and then it came down to, the visa was a religious visa. Only my dad could work as a pastor, and nobody else could work. Then we got the church where he was working to sponsor us to get our green cards, to get our residency, and so it was a long and tedious process, but we did everything by the book.
MA: And now you're all set?
IH: Now I'm a citizen. I became a citizen last summer.
MA: Oh wow, that's awesome. So how old were you when you moved from Chicago to North Carolina?
IH: I was eight.
MA: And you may have been too young, but do you see differences in Latino culture between where you were in Chicago and now being in North Carolina?
IH: Well in my school, in my elementary school in Chicago, there were a lot of Latinos, and there were many kids that joined me in the ESL program. So there were a lot of Latinos there, and then when I came here to North Carolina, I didn't notice at first that there were that many Latinos, but we lived very close to - when we moved to Huntersville and my dad became the Latino minister of an English church, it was, well a Latino ministry, so there were a lot of Latinos. I didn't notice a big different - what I did notice was that in Chicago there's more Latinos in that the Spanish channel is a local channel. Here you have to have cable to have the Spanish channel.
MA: So it seems like there were Latinos in both areas but were, was there a Venezuelan community? Like have you met many Venezuelans in the Charlotte area?
IH: Not in the Charlotte area, but there is -I guess because Chicago's a bigger place, there are a lot more there.
MA: Now after leaving Venezuela, and then going to school in the United States, are you glad you've been educated here or grown up here, or do you wish you'd maybe been educated in Venezuela? How do you feel about how you grew up?
IH: I'm very grateful that I grew up here. I look at myself now -somebody just asked me last week, "do you identify yourself as Venezuelan or American?" I identify myself as Venezuelan because that's what I am. I feel like when I was younger, not that I had an identity crisis, but I was just, not confused but conflicted, because I couldn't exactly identify with all Venezuelans because I didn't grow up there. So my parents and my brother, who came here when he was twelve, they know how life is there. But here, I have to live in a Venezuelan home in an American world. I'm not completely Venezuelan because of all the American, well it is an American world. But I think because of how I was raised, I wouldn't live there again. I wouldn't - I can't really see myself, like if I went there I could visit but I wouldn't live there. I'm not used to that, I'm sure I could get used to it but it would take some time. But I do.... I’m grateful that I'm here. The only down side to that is that I don't have a very concrete concept of aunts and uncles and grandparents cousins because I don't see them and that's, it's sad. So I'll look at pictures on Facebook of my cousins, their weddings and their graduations, and I'm not there, and the only people missing out of all my cousins, is me and my brother. That's the only down side, but we've met a lot of Latinos and, I can't say that many Venezuelans, but even just among the Latino community, I feel like with the friends that we've made, we've kind of formed that community, almost like a sense of family, a sense of belonging so... I don't feel too bad about it.
MA: Growing up, like in middle school and high school, did you find that your friends were mostly Latino or not Latino, or how did you.. .was there any distinction in your friend group?
IH: In my middle school it was predominantly white. I didn't have, I might've had like one, I remember I had one Mexican friend, but not really. In my high school, there were a lot of Latinos but I didn't hang out with them. So, sadly, most of the Latinos were in the lower classes and I was in the IB program. I actually counted one day, half of the people in IB were white, and the other half were a minority group, whether they were Asian, Black, or Latinos. I think the least amount that there were, there were Latinos, there weren't that many, so I didn't hang out with them either. Basically the only place I got my Latino friends was from my church. Yeah.
MA: Is your church mostly Latinos?
IH: It's all Latinos. Well, the old church where my dad used to pastor, it was a church of white people, but our service was- I mean it was open to the community, but it was a Latino service, it was all in Spanish. The church where he is now, it's a lot smaller, but it's again, a Latino ministry.
MA: So it sounds like you've had good opportunities like with IB programs and stuff, but do you feel like being Latina you weren't given as many educational opportunities at all or have you not felt that way?
IH: I feel like I was given the same amount, the only thing that I can say is I took advantage of them. If something came my way I would go for it, and my parents pushed me to keep going and be the best I could be. That's why I feel like I can say I've gone far. I have friends that don't, that came here, like I have one friend that she came here with a visitor’s visa and it expired, so now she can't go to school. She doesn't have the opportunity that I do and I feel very sorry for her because she wants to study, but she can't. But I remember when I first met her, she wasn't taking advantages of the opportunities that were given to her, and I know a lot of people are like that. Now some people do come here at an older age so they have language barriers and problems like
that, and I understand that. Other people, I feel like they didn't quite apply themselves enough, and I know some of them have lack of motivation from their parents, or they had to babysit their younger siblings, but I feel like for me personally, I was given the same amount of opportunities, and I took advantage of them.
MA: So are you in school now?
IH: Yes.
MA: Where do you go?
IH: I go to UNC Chapel Hill.
MA: And what are you studying?
IH: I'm studying International Studies and Spanish.
MA: Do you have any idea what you hope to do with that?
IH: Um, not really. I have thought about maybe doing nonprofit, but I don't- I have no idea what I want to do with that.
MA: Ok, so you mentioned your dad is a minister or a pastor. What about your mom and your brother? How do they make a living in the United States?
IH: So once we got our, so my, okay pastor's don't make that much money. So considering that we, when my dad just had the religious visa, we couldn't work. So my mom got the chance to, she started cleaning houses for like one friend who then spread the word to other good friends, so that's how she started doing, I mean she kind of made, not an official business out of it, but kind of. So now that's what she does. She cleans houses, and it's going really well for her because it's all by word of mouth, how she's getting her clients. My brother was in college when we were going through all that paperwork, but there was a time when he graduated and then he had to live with us for six months because he couldn't do anything, he couldn't work. So once we did get our
papers, he had studied to be a graphic designer and that's what he is now. So he's a graphic designer, he lives in Chicago. So he's there being a graphic designer and my mom cleans houses.
MA: So whether in Chicago or North Carolina, have you encountered any racism or discrimination because you're Latina?
IH: I think that because my skin is so light I haven't gotten it that bad really. Because I don't have an accent, I also haven't gotten it that bad. I can remember like there was one time that, I couldn't pinpoint whether it was me being paranoid or the person really discriminating me, but I remember this one guy who, who was working with me and a group of students. It was several students, all of them were white except for me and this Indian girl and so he spent like a long time with every person but kind of brushed over me and the Indian girl. I mean that really bothered me. If anything, that's like one time, if anything I think that people are surprised when they hear that I'm Latina, or that I was born in Venezuela, because they think that "oh well you must be mixed because you don't have an accent" or "you must, you must", "were you born here?" That's what they think, but that's not what it is. So they, if anything I get people's reaction that they're surprised. So, I haven't really received any sort of racism, but my dad has kind of. Because he's darker than me, the only thing is that he has a full - when we first came to Charlotte he had set, a full beard and mustache, and he's just a hairy man. And so, but after September eleven, when he'd go and make visits to people in jail as a clergy, he'd get followed and he'd get suspicious looks, because they would, I guess people thought that he was Muslim because he is darker and I guess he has features that look like that. So he shaved, and kept a goatee, but if anything now he also gets the element of surprise, like people hear his accent and are like "oh where are you from?" So we really haven't gotten it that bad.
MA: You mentioned that someone asked you this question earlier, but I was also going to ask you, do you identify more as Venezuelan or American, and you said you identify more as Venezuelan. Why do you think that is?
IH: I think that - whenever I hear Venezuelan music, or whenever I see our, my flag, or the colors, or I see like, every time I go home my mom always like "what do you want me to make you?" arepas, that's all I want. I don't know, it's like I have this longing for it. I remember when I went to visit my family freshman year of high school, I felt like I was at home. It felt strange because I didn't understand everything, but I felt like "oh here is everything I've been longing for. It's all here and more." I think that the person that asked me was very surprised that I said Venezuelan because they thought I was going to say American. I guess I can kind of see why because I've been here longer, like way longer, but at the same time I don't see why because I'm not American. Because I do have my citizenship, I wasn't born here which I know for some people they think that oh it's where you're raised, that's how they define it, but I define it as, in my house I speak Spanish, I listen to this kind of music, I eat this kind of food, I identify some with Venezuelan people, not completely but I do, and it's my country and I'm proud of it. So
that's why.
MA: So you express a longing or nostalgia for Venezuela, but at the same time you don't think that you could live there again. So why, what about Venezuela would make you not be able to live there? Does that make sense?
IH: Mhm. I would say, the culture there is different I guess because of the standard of living. So here, it's very easy to get brand name clothes and shoes and I mean people say that America's a very materialistic world, which it's what we live in. Over there, people would pay like a lot of money for a limited supply of one brand name shirt that says like "Abercrombie" on the front of something like that, just because they want to have like the "best". I don't know, I look at the pictures of my cousins on Facebook and I think that, also just because of the way my personality is now, I don't -and I'm only basing this off of the pictures-I don't see myself being there. They're very... so like they always keep up with the latest music. I am never up with the latest music, like Spanish or English. They'll...I don't know. It's just, I feel like I would for a while feel very awkward and not really know what to do. I'm very nervous about going this summer, I'm
very excited, but nervous.
MA: You're going this summer!
IH: Yeah, yeah, and I just…I remember when I went there when I was fifteen, and you hear stories of like you don't ever go outside with any nice jewelry. You would never, I mean if you're going to have a purse you carry it on you, not hanging from you, and you want to you know keep things on the down low. You don't speak English, you don't tell that you have dollars, you don't say any of that. That's, that's so scary to me. I remember when I was walking through the little cities where my family lives, there were lots of flyers of faces of people that say like "Have you seen me?" Because people are kidnapped. That's so terrifying. But they know the way to do things over there. I wouldn't. I followed my mom completely. I was fifteen then, I'll be nineteen when I go now, so I don't know. I'm nervous because I will be following her everywhere -and even she doesn't even know now. Like life over there has changed so much that she doesn't even know how to do things. So she'll have to ask her siblings and like my aunts and my uncles, like "hey, what's the best thing to do in this situation?" I guess there's just so much uncertainty, that I'm, I'd be very scared.
MA: So are both your parents going?
IH: I'm not sure. I know I'm going with my mom. My dad plans to go I think later. I think because he just now got a new job position, he wants to wait a little bit before he goes over there and visits.
MA: Where will you stay when you go over there?
IH: Well we're planning to stay there for a month. I think for most of time we're going to stay in my mom's house. She lives in a little town called La Villa, so we're staying with her, her mom, in her mom's house I think. And we'll visit dad's my mom, and she lives in Barquisimeto and so we'll be there for a little bit but my mom's more inclined to be there. We probably won't stay in Maracaibo very long because we don't have a lot of family over there that we're very close to, so we'll like go there for a little bit, but not for very long.
MA: How do you feel like it will be like to reunite with your Grandma and your cousins and aunts and uncles?
IH: Honestly, I think it'll be awkward, because I don't know. I get really nervous when I talk to them on the phone, because they ask me the same questions. They're like "How are your classes? What classes are you taking? Do you have a boyfriend?" It's just awkward as it is, even if it wasn't in a different country. But then you add the element of like, I think that sometimes they think that I don't know Spanish, or that I don't know it that well. And sometimes they'll speak too fast or they'll say a new slang word that I've never heard, that my parents don't even know, so I wouldn't know. I don't want to be that niece that's like "What did you just say?" or that cousin who's like "I'm sorry, I can't keep up with you." So I think that at first I'll be awkward because of that, because I'm not used to it, but I'll be fun. If I just, I feel like if I just let them talk more.
MA: So what changes do you think have occurred to your family like your parents and you and your brother living in the United States that probably wouldn't have occurred in Venezuela?
IH: So my dad probably, he would still be pastor. I think that being here and being exposed to - here in the United States you're exposed to so many different kinds of cultures and so many different kinds of ideas-and I think throughout the years my dad has said that he's become more open-minded. Over there he'd be more closed-minded. My brother in '06 got diagnosed with Cancer and over there -it was a rare kind and it was already the second stage-if he had been there, I don't know if he would've made it, if we would've had the money to pay for any, I don't even think they'd have the medical supplies or anything like that, the specific one that he would need for the one he needed. And if that had it, we probably wouldn't have had enough money to pay for that. So, that's a big one. And my mom...I think she would maybe, I have no idea what she would be doing. She would probably, after like right now, she would probably be a stay at home mom until I would go off and be old enough to do things on my own. I think, I can see her being like a teacher, like an elementary school teacher. But even then it would be rough because just like here, teachers don't get paid a lot. Over there, it's worse. It's not like the most corrupt but it's a corrupt government where if you aren't in favor of Chavez, things just don't go as well for you. I have, people have asked me like what my, if I'm Chavista, and I don't know. That's such a controversial topic, and I think my family's split between being Chavista and not. You benefit more, you do get more of a benefit if you vote for him. I can say like, all I can say is he's done good things in the past, he talks a lot, and now he's been there for way too long now and has now gotten power hungry and hasn't made the best decisions. I don't know where my family would stand on that, because if we were Chavista, things would go better for us, but still, they wouldn't be as good as it is here. If my family wasn't then, I guess we would just, we would be. ..we wouldn't know any better. We'd be living comfortably, but not like, I think it would be tight.
MA: So it seems like you know some about politics and stuff that's going on in Venezuela. Do you try to keep yourself informed about that stuff because you are Venezuelan and your family's there, or how do you feel like you become informed about stuff like that?
IH: I hear, I don't really keep up with the news over there, but I do listen to what my, like my mom talks to one of my Aunts and my Aunt will say something like "oh there was an election going on." I mostly hear things through my parents. Also we have this really good Venezuelan family and when the two of them meet, like when my parents meet up with them, I hear a lot more things. I can't always stay ahead of everything because I don't know what the history of it all is, but I just know that it's become dangerous there. You don't go and walk outside past sunset and I don't know if that's everywhere or just some parts of the area, but I know that I get most of what I know from my parents and from what I listen to their conversations.
MA: So this goes back to your brother quickly, but is he okay now?
IH: Yes.
MA: We talked about how the United States sort of shaped or molded your family, but what do you think your family in Venezuela thinks about your family? Like the "family members who went to the United States and stayed." What do you think they think about you guys?
IH: I asked my dad that. I think, see I thought when I was going to go and visit five years ago, I thought they were going to think that I was cocky and that I was going to be really, I was going to think that I was all that, and they weren't like that at all. They were very welcoming, they wanted me to speak to them and English and were like "oh! How do you say this word?" I brought a camera with me and every single picture I took, everyone in my family was like "I want to see! I want to see! Take another one!" If anything it's like, I feel like I bring things that they don't know, and they're excited to see, like "Oh what does she know? What does she have for us to learn, or do, or say?" I don't, I don't think that - I think that they understand that the way that things worked out, it worked out so that -I don't want to say there's a reason for everything-but it's, it's good that we're here, especially with my brother's condition. It was the best thing that we could do. If job opportunities come up, my family does want the best for us too, so considering the fact that there wasn't a job opportunity there for my dad when we were going to go back, then they would think, why not take it here? If we're getting this opportunity, in a way they can kind of benefit, not from us, but they benefit too in knowing that we're doing well and that we're here.
MA: So you mentioned also earlier, that when you were younger it was a little bit hard like "do I identify as Venezuelan or American?" And how your parents and your brother grew up in Venezuela, like how they had almost more of a base I knowing how life was there. How, like what cultural differences do you see between your parents and yourself, them growing up in Venezuela and you growing up here?
IH: I think that, I think that my…I really don't, I personally don't see a lot of a difference. I see a lot of a difference between me and American culture. Especially now having a roommate, because she'll be like, "why are you doing that?" Or, I don't know. I think my dad thinks that I've - okay yeah I've Americanized but I can't quite say that I ok so an example would be, he thinks that when he's old, I'm going to send him off to a retirement home. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the way he sees it as like "You're going to abandon us and once you grow up you're never going to come back home and you're never going to come and visit." That was his fear for a while, but I think that he can see now, I do come home and visit. When I do have my own family, we are, we are going to come and visit. Because of that, he's tried to tell me many times, "We are your only family here and you can't forget that." Which I can't forget that, and I would never choose to. I think that he's more scared that I'll be different, that I'll be more
American, that I'll adopt different life more, and I guess forget my roots. Even though my roots aren't very defined, like you said I don't have as strong as a basis, I do still have them and I learn mostly, I mean I follow my parents example mostly. I don't see a lot of a difference with them and the way that they view things because we do talk a lot about what we think. So culturally, the culture that they've created by adopting this culture but still keeping theirs, I've adopted that too.
MA: So then what differences do you see between the culture that your parents have created and that you've adopted, and American culture? Like how you were saying you see differences between how you've grown up and other aspects of American culture.
IH: So when I grew up, so both of my parents grew up, when they were young, their parents were both poor. My mom was one of nine kids and my Grandma was a widow and life was very hard. My dad was one of five kids and his parents had split up, so he was the oldest so he kind of took care of the younger ones. So they know how to make money stretch. They know how to use everything up to the fullest that they can. I see a lot of things being wasted here, like a silly example would be toothpaste. We would be the people to go and use every single squirt that you can use, or lotion or anything like that. So I have that with me, like I use everything that I can with anything that I buy. I do see a lot of waste. I'll see like --I guess my mom just tells me. In the houses that she cleans she'll see like half full bottles of anything thrown away and she's like "I don't why?" I think that, that's probably the biggest difference that I've seen.
Well, so another difference would be, in the Venezuelan culture like I've said, it's a very fashion driven world. You always have to look your best, like always, even just to go to the grocery store. You don't walk out in flip flops, you don't, you always smell good, you're always presentable. So they're willing to pay a lot of money for something good and here, there are, you can buy good things for like bargain prices. So my parents have learned to adopt that and not have to pay like a lot of money for good things. Over there they don't have that opportunity, so I guess that's kind of a difference. I mean they use everything they have to the fullest.
MA: Where do you see yourself in five years?
IH: So... I see myself in the Triangle Area. I see myself getting my Masters, I don't know in what. I also see myself being a cosmetologist. That's a dream of mine and I'm going to make it real. So yeah, I'll be in the Triangle Area from what I see, and I'll be a cosmetologist working on her masters.
MA: Do you think your five year plan matches up with what, where your parents picture you in five years?
IH: I think so. I think my dad actually wanted me to be a cosmetologist now, and I'm like "no, it's going to have to take a halt. It'll come later." I mean my parents, they want me to continue studying, and if I can take advantage of the opportunity, I mean go for it.
MA: What about marriage? I know in a lot of Latin American cultures, girls get married really young and as soon as they're done school, marriage is what's next. How do you feel about that and how do your parents feel about that? Or have you even seen that as a trend?
IH: I haven't really seen that as a trend, well.. .so what's happened recently with three of my girl cousins is that they've had babies and they're not married. I think that, my parents are like "oh yay there's a new baby" but they're also thinking like, "your life is going to have to stop and you're going to have to modify it a lot now." They wouldn't want that for me. I also wouldn't want that for me. I want to have like a stable marriage before I have any kids, so I haven't really seen - although the guys on my mom's side of the family, like my guy cousins, they're like in their mid to late twenties, and they're just now getting married. So they've waited. As for me, I think that the way that I see marriage with that is -so, my brother's eight years older than me, and I see him, and I thought he was going to get married right after college, but things didn't work out like that. Now he's still single and he's in his mid/late twenties and he's fine. One of the
things he tells me is "wait, live your life. Live by yourself and wait. Really just live by yourself and see what you want to do and be you before you get married," and I want to do that.
MA: Would your parents prefer that you marry a Latino or is there not a preference there?
IH: They would definitely prefer that I marry a Latino, just because there's so much discrepancy between Latino cultures already, but if we can all share the same language, they feel much better about that. I think my dad's ideal would be if I married like a Venezuelan man, but that's kind of hard to find. So yeah, they would mom would be more okay with something else. My dad would prefer for me to marry a Latino man because I think it would just be easier and he brings up the argument that we're going to have cultural clashes. Honestly I think that, just by the way people can be raised in the same country, there's still going to be clashing just because of the way that they were raised. So I think he feels it'd just be easier if I just married a Latino.
MA: And how do you feel?
IH: I feel like in some sense it would and but in an even bigger sense, I would look past that if I could find someone who fulfills the basic, not basic, but if they were what I wanted in a person, I'd go for that, and if they weren't Latino, that's okay, but they would have to have an open mind and they would have to understand that I do things differently... one because I'm a different person and because I am from a different culture. They'd have to accept the fact that I am going to speak Spanish and that I am Venezuelan and I am going to eat these foods and listen to this music and visit my country and see my family, and that in my family, in my family household, in my parents' house, this is how things would be. At the same time I'd also have to be open minded to think well their side is going to be totally different, and I'm okay with that as long as I'm respected, I would respect too.
MA: So here at UNC have you encountered a rich Latino culture or community, or how do you perceive the Latino community here?
IH: So, outside like UNC, but outside of the campus, I've seen a lot of Latinos and I almost feel like I'm back at home because there's a lot of Latinos there, and you like walk around the grocery store or just somewhere, just down the street, and you see a lot of Latinos. As for inside the campus, I didn't last year, but this year I purposely put myself in a Spanish class for heritage speakers because I felt like I wasn't speaking enough Spanish here. I wanted to take it with heritage speakers because I wanted to meet Latinos and make Latino friends, and that's helped me the most. Outside of that, I know there's like CHispA and other things like that, but I, I guess it's a little hard for me to go out, it's like going out of your comfort zone and like "Oh hey, you're Latino. Let's be friends." But in a class setting I can, all these people, I've taken two classes now with heritage speakers, and I really like them so far because they, I guess have opened my eyes
to the fact that there is a Latino culture here, and that I didn't see it before because I didn't know anyone, but now I do.
MA: The Latinos that you've met in classes, like your heritage speaker ones, what countries are they from?
IH: I know there's people from Mexico, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic, and if they weren't born there then their parents were. Chile, Guatemala... so it's, it's a big range.
MA: So you don't feel like the odd man out for being from Venezuela?
IH: No, there's actually another Venezuelan girl there, and even if she wasn't there, I'd still feel good.
MA: Well awesome, thank you so much!